Episode 84 - The Adelaide Family Murders Part 1 of 2

0:15 Two crime besties we are ever so slowly pushing towards the 100

0:21 episodes we are in episode 84 today.

0:23 Crazy, crazy. I it's really blown my minds.

0:26 I know we were talking about it before.

0:28 I'm like. Sorry not I have more than no

0:30 wait. That wasn't a Freudian.

0:35 May have had wines before we started and that's maybe not a

0:38 good thing. Well.

0:39 Let's, let's put it out there. We are recording on the school

0:42 holidays, which we all know is difficult at the best of times.

0:47 We're recording at night. OK, Another element for, well,

0:51 for me in particular for you, you're a night person.

0:55 Yeah, I'm in my this. Is you're peaking right now?

0:57 Hours. Yeah, I'm not.

0:59 No, really not. And then also producer Pete made

1:03 us a really nice dinner. It was so.

1:04 Delicious. Really, really really.

1:06 Great, but delicious. I did tell him it had to be

1:10 ready at six and it was ready at 7 it.

1:12 Was worth it. Yeah, he did make multiple

1:14 dishes, Yeah, so I'll give him that.

1:16 Oh. As, as he said, was it.

1:18 Fast food, food court, basically.

1:19 Yeah. Like it was it was good.

1:21 It was good. Thank you.

1:22 Thank you, producer Pete. Thank you, producer Pete.

1:24 Appreciate it. It's.

1:25 Nicest we're gonna get. Yeah, yeah.

1:27 Don't expect anything more. And then, yeah, of course we had

1:31 some wines. I mean, be rude not to.

1:33 Well. It is Easter.

1:34 We're gonna celebrate. We've had some buy me a wines

1:37 from a couple of people this week, Sarah G and Jess.

1:40 They would have been disappointed if we didn't have

1:41 wines. Yeah, so we.

1:44 Need that. I know when you texted me this

1:45 afternoon and said shall I buy us a bottle of bubbly and I was

1:48 like, what is she even asking me for?

1:51 Yeah. I mean, you know, you know, you

1:55 know, I don't know why. I just wanted, I wanted you to

1:57 be like, yeah, yeah. Which is exactly what I got

2:00 back. I literally like that.

2:02 Do break my arm. Wouldn't dare.

2:05 Wouldn't dare, Yeah. How's your week been?

2:08 Yeah, it's been really very quiet and it's nice.

2:13 I needed it. I had a really crazy last few

2:15 days of like the term and the, it was mental, absolutely

2:19 mental. So yeah, the last few days, I

2:21 mean, you know, it's Easter and it's just different.

2:25 It's just, it's just the weirdest time of year, I reckon.

2:28 Nothing's open, nothing's happening, but there's literally

2:30 nothing happening. Yeah.

2:33 So it's been very quiet and really, really nice.

2:36 That's so lovely. We've had a really busy weekend,

2:39 yeah, a lot of socialising, but good, good socialising.

2:41 Yeah, it's been nice. But yeah, today we kind of had a

2:45 bit of a down day and it was really lovely to not have to be

2:49 doing anything. Yeah, because it is.

2:52 It is weird. I mean for us non Christians, I

2:55 mean I. Was.

2:57 Born and raised a Catholic, so my family, a lot of people in my

3:01 family still really celebrate what is I would what I would say

3:05 is probably the true meaning of Easter.

3:08 Us not so much in our family, but there's still like a lot of

3:14 family obligation around it and watching people who you need,

3:17 you feel like you need to go and see and it's being lovely, don't

3:20 get me wrong. It's just, it's almost like

3:22 another like a mini Christmas. Yeah, see it's like nonexistent

3:25 in my family in that like we're not religious at all and never

3:29 have been not any any part of my family are that like Easter's

3:33 like it's just chocolate and east and like cock cross buns.

3:36 Yeah, OK. I mean, and typically like,

3:38 yeah, Easter Sunday. We've always done an Easter egg

3:40 hunt thing. It's been massive as we were

3:42 kids and stuff. But my kids aren't around this

3:44 this year for Sunday. So that's my family just went

3:47 well, we'll just wait for them to be around.

3:49 Yeah. OK.

3:49 So it's just which like no one cares what what day of the week

3:52 we do that sort of stuff. Like it's not like that for us

3:55 at all of like it's got to be to be a certain day or something.

3:58 Yeah. So it's really been, it's like,

3:59 yeah, the shots were shut on Friday.

4:02 Yeah, they're like, hmm, OK, what do I do?

4:05 You know what I actually found? Yeah, it's it's and it is nice

4:08 to have the you have no choice but to do nothing, which is

4:11 actually quite nice. Yes, it's not the worst thing in

4:14 the world. Nice to sort of slow down,

4:16 especially at the end of the school term where school

4:18 holidays have fallen in Victoria, or at least this year.

4:21 Yeah, the start of the school holidays.

4:23 It's kind of a nice way to ease into the school holidays.

4:25 It is. I mean, we enjoy it, you know, 1

4:27 less day at work, like, you know, you finish on a Thursday

4:30 rather than the Friday. Yeah, that's always nice.

4:33 But yeah, it's just, oh, it's just different.

4:36 Oliver different. Oliver went on camp in that last

4:38 week of school, so he was absolute.

4:40 He couldn't even string a a sentence 2 words together.

4:44 No, you guys were walking out on Wednesday and I was standing at

4:46 near the gate kind of area and it's just caught out.

4:48 Oh, hey, you know, how was Kev? And you were like, Oh no.

4:50 He literally he can't, don't, don't even look at.

4:54 Him too late at all. Have hope.

4:56 You had fun. He did have exhaust.

4:59 He was just exhausted. I know another friend of ours

5:02 said to me that when she got home she just immediately had to

5:04 get her daughter in the shower 'cause she stayed.

5:08 I, I empathise with that. I absolutely empathise with

5:12 that. But they went somewhere where

5:14 they had showers. Oh.

5:15 Yeah, they absolutely had showers like.

5:17 'Cause I remember coming home from like we did a full week

5:19 camp like in about year nine I reckon, where there were no

5:22 showers. So when you got in that car, I

5:26 had no idea. I stank but I remember my mom

5:28 just going oh fuck like. Wind the window down in the

5:30 shower. Love it.

5:36 Yeah, I had to. As soon as you got home, I'm

5:39 like, OK, Straight in the shower.

5:41 Yeah. Everything he took with him,

5:43 bags included, all went through the washing machine.

5:46 Yeah, yeah. God, yeah, Yeah, kids.

5:51 And they would have had a great. Best time grade 6 camp?

5:53 Oh, I still remember my grade 6 camp and it was wonderful.

5:56 Give him a couple of months and then it'll be like, yeah, it was

5:59 awesome. Yeah, it was actually.

6:00 Great, they're still like. I'm, I'm processing this.

6:03 Yeah. Now they had it.

6:04 They really had a great time. And hats off to the teachers who

6:07 went, because what a what an undertaking.

6:09 Let's be honest, they had a lot of wine.

6:11 I hope they did. I really hope they did.

6:14 Yeah. It'd be very well deserved.

6:16 Oh. Camp as teachers is next level.

6:19 Yeah, they deserve everything. Anything they can get this

6:22 pleasurable of that. Week.

6:23 Yeah. Isn't it just a bag of M&M's or

6:25 something? It's more.

6:27 Than that going on. Oh God, if you get any sleep for

6:31 that week as a teacher, you're doing bloody well.

6:33 Yeah. Yeah, look, I think, yeah, it,

6:36 it was much appreciated. Very, very much appreciated.

6:39 They put themselves out there to do that.

6:41 Yeah. Now another thing that's

6:42 happened this week. So this will actually be coming

6:44 out a week after this has happened or a bit off, bit over

6:48 a week after this has happened. But something that has

6:50 absolutely captured me holus bolus, like I am just so

6:57 entrenched in this. And I'll give a bit of back

6:59 story in a second. Oh, I love it.

7:01 The Artemis 2 launch. Oh yeah, your family would be

7:04 well into that, Yeah. Oh my God.

7:06 So we watched it. Yeah, live.

7:08 Because of course, sweetie. Is.

7:11 Peter Yeah. So Lukey was at school, but I

7:15 kept Dolly home from school that day, and not because of the

7:18 Artemis launch, but because he just gotten back from camp.

7:20 We watched that and I was. It's just, to me, it is such a

7:26 massive thing for humanity. And the other thing that I

7:28 absolutely love about it. So one of the the female

7:31 astronaut who is on the spacecraft at the moment,

7:34 Christina, I have been following her on social media for years

7:37 and years and years. Yeah, she's amazing.

7:39 Yeah. She is incredible.

7:40 Yes. Not only is she the longest

7:42 person to have ever stayed on the International Space Station,

7:44 it's over 300 and 320 days, maybe.

7:48 God, yeah. She, she's just incredible.

7:52 And she is now the first woman to travel to the moon, one of

7:58 she's the, the first female to have gone as far as humans have

8:02 ever gone ever. Because now, like today,

8:05 actually today we're recording this, the astronauts reach the

8:09 far side of the moon, which is the furthest humans have ever

8:12 gone in space exploration. Massive.

8:15 It's massive. That is so cool.

8:17 And I, it just, it blows my mind and I'm so like proud of us as a

8:22 humanity that we're doing this again.

8:24 I. Mean just don't bring it down.

8:26 I guess a little bit just sucks balls.

8:28 But like, I hate that, like this whole launch and all of that

8:31 happening has been so overshadowed by the other shit

8:34 that's going on in this world at the moment because this should

8:37 be far more front and centre than it is.

8:40 Yeah. I mean, I've not been following

8:42 it and now hearing you kind of going fuck yes, I need to get on

8:45 on board for this more. Like, I knew it was happening

8:48 and all that sort of stuff and I'm, you know, I know about it,

8:50 but it's not what I'm glued to when I should be.

8:54 Instead I'm glued to this other shit and well, how much am I

8:56 going to pay for fuel tomorrow? Kind of stuff like it.

8:58 Which is so bullshit. I, I totally get that too,

9:00 because they're the things we have to be kind of a bit focused

9:03 on because that's our livelihoods and whatever.

9:07 But, you know, I mean, Artemis has had a bit of trouble with

9:10 their toilet. Oh really?

9:11 So what they think has happened and astronaut Christina has been

9:16 the one trying to fix it and sort it out and she's done.

9:19 She's actually done an amazing job.

9:20 However, it's, this is not her fault.

9:23 The lines are actually getting frozen.

9:25 So as they go around towards the dark side of the moon, obviously

9:27 temperatures are even colder, which maybe wasn't factored in.

9:34 But you think surely that is, you know, they've actually, I

9:36 know that they've been they've been having toileting.

9:39 Issues, I think since launch, yeah, right.

9:41 Not for number twos, just for number ones, just for liquids.

9:44 OK. Solid.

9:45 I'm assuming they're not. I mean, I guess you've got to

9:47 pass some, but like, like what you consume?

9:50 Eat. Yeah, I know.

9:51 They. Eat, but like what you're

9:52 consuming is probably a whole lot, not whole, you know?

9:55 What happens when you eat? Yeah, poo, I know, but like,

9:58 what you're consuming is surely a lot more liquid than it is.

10:01 No, I think they eat food I'm not gonna.

10:03 Sit and have a steak and veg they're eating.

10:06 But they're eating like dehydrated stuff that they're

10:08 rehydrating. They're eating food.

10:10 OK, alright. Yeah.

10:11 I thought they'd be like literally on a liquid diet

10:13 basically. Basically, look, I'm sure they

10:14 get a fair few of their calories from liquid.

10:16 Yeah, I would, I think like back on, you know, what do you call?

10:18 It sausage or something and stuff like that.

10:21 I think they actually have a slightly more varied diet than

10:23 that. Wow.

10:24 OK, cool. Yeah.

10:26 So yes, they do poo. Apparently the poos haven't been

10:29 as much of an issue because they can kind of pass through, but

10:31 it's the liquids that are kind of getting getting trapped.

10:36 Well, I guess. Are they freezing?

10:37 Yeah. Yeah, and then blocking tubes

10:39 and stuff. So OK, they're having to weigh

10:41 into bags. Yay.

10:44 Like that's great. Yeah, that would not be fun.

10:47 Well, again, another one going to the.

10:48 Toilet in space wouldn't be fun at the best of times, let alone

10:52 then. Having to feed it would be

10:53 probably easier. Oh yeah, 'cause you're just.

10:56 That put you, yeah. Put you put your thing in the.

10:59 Hole you'll be fine, whereas for women it's just not as

11:02 convenient. Not as easy.

11:03 It's not definitely not as easy, no.

11:05 I was reading a thing about the first woman, whoever went to

11:08 space and they, it was like a maybe a two or three day

11:14 mission. Don't quote me on that because I

11:16 can't remember off the top of my head, but they were like Oh my

11:19 God what if she gets her period up there and they sent?

11:21 There's a whole song that they wrote about that, about how many

11:23 tampons. She sent 100 tampons.

11:30 Have you heard that song? Does any?

11:31 No, I don't. I have to.

11:33 Find it. But I'm like, does anyone

11:35 actually understand how the female body?

11:38 Works like no literally these these rockets.

11:41 Scientists. Do not know how the female body

11:44 works. I've got to.

11:45 Find this song in one in one outing in one period.

11:51 You don't need 100 tampons. Like for the whole, you know,

11:56 the whole time. She was only going for a few

11:58 days. She certainly didn't need 100

12:00 tampons. Oh, God, no.

12:02 Yeah. God.

12:03 Oh God. I've gotta find the song.

12:04 It's really annoying me. I'll play it.

12:05 I'll put it on our socially if I find it.

12:06 Please do. It's.

12:08 Hilarious, yeah. Yeah, yes, man, man, oh man.

12:12 Anyway, just love it. I've been glued and I think

12:15 maybe by the time this comes out they'll almost be back.

12:18 Or they'll be back. So can't wait I.

12:21 Actually not somewhat related to this, I end up watching The Dish

12:25 with my oldest son the other day.

12:26 We were talking about this the other day 'cause we watched it

12:29 with our Oh, did you? So good at a good movie and

12:32 watch that. And I hadn't seen it in years.

12:34 Oh, and so I sat and 'cause he's into science, he loves his

12:37 science stuff that I like. The youngest one, of course,

12:39 like him. You know Australia had a had a

12:41 hand in this Artemis launch as. Well, they did.

12:43 That's so cool. That is so cool.

12:45 Yeah. Because yeah, Mason was just

12:46 blown away, but he now wants to go like.

12:48 Of course, yeah. To park parks.

12:50 I was like, OK, we'll put it on our bucket list of yeah, but

12:54 yeah, 'cause it's just, it was. It's such a cool movie.

12:56 That's so funny. That movie too, so.

12:58 Good typical Australian kind of star movie.

13:00 Well, don't you just wanna like, hug him?

13:02 Oh, I just love him. So good.

13:05 That movie's really good. It is, yeah.

13:07 Good timing for any any of our international listeners who

13:09 haven't watched watch the Dish. It is, yeah.

13:12 It really gives you an idea of what Australia was like back in

13:15 the, what was it, 60s? It was in the yeah, the, the

13:18 lunar landing. Yeah, yeah.

13:20 Late 60s yet. Very good.

13:22 Now, school holiday plans. I know you haven't had the boys,

13:25 but you're coming up for having them.

13:26 Where are you at with what you're gonna do some to?

13:29 Entertain. They're gonna do some go

13:31 karting, I think, if they've got fuel.

13:35 If they're not charging you $87.00 a lap.

13:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I will go do that most likely

13:40 because that's what they would love to do.

13:41 Every school holiday is my two. It's one of their obsessions.

13:44 So we was trying to do that in the school holidays, which I

13:46 figure I'm kind of doing myself a favour and doing it because I

13:48 figure I'm training them for when they're driving cars later.

13:51 So I always feel like it's a this is a good thing, this is a

13:53 good. Thing that they're racing.

13:57 They get the, the feel of being in control of a vehicle.

13:59 Yeah. And like, you know, look, I come

14:01 back from a bit of a rally car racing background.

14:03 So I'm kind of like, I kind of get that it's gonna be hairy no

14:06 matter what when I, when my kids are driving.

14:07 Yeah. But I'm I'm built for it I

14:09 think. And ask us in six or seven

14:13 years. Yeah.

14:14 Yeah, yeah, as long as I just want them to have us like keep

14:16 the car straight, like, you know, and I watch them do this

14:19 and I have can see over when they start to when they finish

14:21 doing their laps of how much better they are at cornering.

14:24 OK. You sort of can see that they

14:25 get the feel of the vehicle. Yeah, OK, well, that's and

14:28 understand a bit more. I remember when my dad was

14:30 teaching my brother how to drive.

14:32 Yeah. And they came home one day

14:35 screaming at each other because I.

14:37 Should do it every time you do it my.

14:39 Dad, my dad was like, this is not a video game.

14:42 It doesn't handle like GTA. I'll see your parents.

14:47 My friends have very different ideas of how you teach someone

14:49 to drive. So my dad, my first learning, my

14:52 first lesson in the car with my dad ever getting in the car was

14:55 we're going down the Geelong freeway, 100K an hour, and dad

14:59 was teaching me how to use the cruise control.

15:00 It was my first experience of being behind the wheel.

15:06 I love it. I mean, well, I say first

15:07 experience being because I grew up going to farms and stuff.

15:09 So yes, I had ridden motorbikes and all these sorts of things

15:12 and driven cars around paddocks. So it was, I guess, a little bit

15:15 different. But that's why I want my kids to

15:17 have that, yeah, as their first kind of experience for driving.

15:20 Then getting on the road with other cars.

15:22 Whereas my Rd. experience on the road with other cars on a bloody

15:26 big freeway learning how to use the cruise control.

15:28 Well, I remember my dad took me because my dad had a manual car

15:31 and I wanted to learn in a manual.

15:32 Yeah, and my dad took me to some factories.

15:36 It's not far from where we lived at the time.

15:37 Yeah. And then and it was peak hour

15:39 when we were coming back. And he's like, Oh no, you can

15:41 drive home. And I was like, oh, I don't

15:43 know. Oh, you know, brand new driver.

15:46 Yeah, manual car. Anyway, we were at a hill.

15:50 Oh, shit. And we got stopped at the

15:51 traffic light and I was like, fuck, I'd never done a handbrake

15:54 start on a hill. Like Dad had taught me how to do

15:57 it on a flat. Yeah, yeah, never done 1.

15:59 On a hill, so we're at and do you think I could fucking get

16:03 this car going? I could not get it going.

16:06 I reckon it was two or three changes.

16:08 I was crying immediately. I think it was two or three

16:12 changes of lights before I actually got the car going and

16:14 there were people beeping me. Yeah, and I was.

16:17 Like I'm brand new, or I mean it.

16:18 Was so stressful. It was so stressful.

16:22 I never remember. My dad's very patient.

16:24 Oh, your dad is? Yeah.

16:25 Whereas my, my mum was not. She was like teaching us to

16:28 drive. She was not patient.

16:29 Yeah, my dad like, yeah, he was like, yeah, cool.

16:31 Yeah, I remember that. Like dad showing me which

16:33 buttons to press and stuff for the cruise control, my mum in

16:35 the back going. Don't do that, Don't do that.

16:37 Don't teach her. She actually needs to learn how

16:39 to actually drive. My mum, I don't even know if she

16:43 knows this story. So Mum, if you're listening,

16:45 closure, he is on my L plates. We were coming home from the

16:50 country. So my dad grew up in the

16:51 country, like 3 1/2 hours away from where we lived.

16:54 Yeah. And we were coming and I'm

16:56 talking country roads, right? We never used to come home the

16:58 freeway because, I mean, that's bullshit.

17:01 Way to go. We go the back way and so and I

17:05 kind of knew the way I'd never driven it before.

17:09 I was on my elves and we were driving home.

17:12 My brother was in the back seat. So and then all of a sudden we

17:16 look over and Dad's just having a little Kip in the front seat.

17:21 Matthew and I managed to navigate ourselves the way all

17:24 the way home. And then it wasn't until after

17:27 that I was like, oh, Dad probably should have been awake

17:29 for that. Yeah, maybe, yeah.

17:32 But clearly he had trust in you. Clearly.

17:36 There's no, he wasn't worried, Obviously he wasn't worried, not

17:39 nervous. I am a good driver.

17:41 Well, just ask my kids. I'm a really good driver.

17:47 No Rd. people that you've no. Road rage at.

17:49 All never. Never.

17:51 Emma does not. Have have I told my work?

17:53 My work like this was actually an embarrassing road rage

17:56 incident. No, that you don't have

17:58 embarrassing road rage. I was.

18:00 No, I was driving home from work and I was.

18:03 I actually called my work colleague for some reason, I

18:08 can't remember why. Whatever, it doesn't actually

18:09 matter. And anyway I'm driving along and

18:12 I just sort of kind of turned maybe two or three streets away

18:15 from work and I'm going down a fairly main ish road and the

18:20 person in front of me was going in the right hand lane.

18:22 It was an 80 K zone. It's going 60 right?

18:26 Yep, Yep, Yep. So I'm like fuck this shit.

18:28 So I'm like beep, beep, beep. I'm so aggressive it's horrible.

18:32 It's actually horrible, but I'm like beep, beep, beep.

18:35 Anyway, I go around this person, I'm like, you know, screaming at

18:38 them, putting my finger up the window and I I look over, I look

18:43 over and it's a work colleague of my different, not the one I

18:46 was talking to on the phone. I don't.

18:49 Know them. It's like, I was like, oh.

18:53 Fuck, you're just saying hi. I was.

18:54 Like, oh fuck, oh, it's this person.

18:57 She's like, Oh my God. And then so I just kind of

19:03 pretended like everything was fine.

19:05 I was just driving. Hi, don't go 60 on the right

19:10 hand lane is an 80 K Rd. I always, I always say, have I

19:13 even spoken to Emma while she's driving?

19:15 If I don't hear her yell abuse, she's like, do you remember

19:18 that? Time I was coming out of a car

19:20 park which and someone was like yelling at me and I was like

19:24 stop it, I'm doing that and next and you were trying to yell at

19:29 the person too. There's been so many Yeah, yeah,

19:36 yeah, yeah, yeah. We have.

19:38 We have a yeah, long history of calling each other while

19:41 striving. And at some point, inevitably,

19:43 Emma's gonna yell at be. Yeah, I mean, just don't be a

19:47 fucking Dick head, No. Don't be a Dick, as I tell my

19:49 boys every day when they out of the car for school.

19:52 Just don't be a Dick. Have a great day, don't be a

19:53 Dick. That's my exit car.

19:55 Yeah, it's not hard. No, we were meant to be on a

19:59 road trip at the moment, but obviously given the fuel crises

20:03 and flooding, just flooding in deserts and stuff, we've

20:08 actually postponed our trip till probably this time next year.

20:10 So that's opened up the school holidays for us a lot.

20:13 A lot. Yeah, all of a.

20:15 Sudden you sort of go, oh, what are we going to do now?

20:17 Yeah. So that's where I'm at.

20:19 I'm in the planning stage of what we're going to do this

20:21 week. Yes, Yeah.

20:23 And then I'm back at work next week, so for the second week of

20:26 the school holidays. Yeah, very good.

20:29 Just really quickly to everyone, we've got a bit of a merch

20:32 update as well. Oh yeah, merch is coming.

20:36 We are just waiting on samples to make sure the quality is

20:39 good. Yeah.

20:41 And then we're going to be right to go.

20:42 So keep an eye on our socials it it won't be far away when this

20:46 episode comes out. So, and we may do a little

20:49 giveaway of something. Yes, we will.

20:52 Just a little hint. We've got to still figure out

20:55 how we're gonna do that and what we're gonna do.

20:58 It will happen to do that. We have lots of things planned.

21:02 That's right. So stay tuned.

21:04 Best you. We make it happen eventually.

21:06 Yeah, yes, I've got a couple of shout outs before we get started

21:09 for today. She's got M, who loves the fact

21:12 that we call all of these pieces of shit charismatic.

21:15 She's like every time you mention charismatic, she has a

21:17 little chuckle to herself. It's like an in joke for her.

21:21 Yeah. Erin, who's one of our patrons,

21:23 has commented a few times on different bits and pieces in the

21:26 last week or two. And then Louise Milne as well.

21:29 She sent us a really lovely message over the week.

21:31 So thank you to everybody for reaching out, commenting.

21:34 We read them all, whether we can get back to them all, we try.

21:37 The other day I actually replied to something that was over maybe

21:41 a month old. God, have I missed one?

21:42 Yeah. No, yeah, no.

21:44 But I was like, oh, sorry to that person.

21:46 We do try. We really, really do.

21:48 Yeah, I I sort of sometimes I sort through and I start

21:51 replying and because when you reply that one then goes to the.

21:54 Top yes, exactly and then you can.

21:55 Actually, I can't work out where I was at the same issue that has

21:58 happened where I've then missed someone potentially and then I

22:00 go back later going, Oh my God, did I not do that one?

22:02 Yeah, yes, same. Yeah, yeah.

22:04 All good, we do get there eventually.

22:05 Yes, so today we are doing a 2 parter.

22:10 So today is Part 1 of A2 Parter about the family murders in

22:14 Adelaide in South. Spirit of Easter, Jesus Christ.

22:17 I, you know what we're both just saying before, we've both kind

22:20 of struggled this week. This has been hard.

22:23 And coming off the back of the Bernie's, I don't know, I feel

22:28 like this has been a really tough swing.

22:31 Or as I said to you, I needed to find light, you know, like

22:33 things to watch on TV and things in between.

22:35 Because, yeah, real heavy. Really, really heavy.

22:39 And I mean, I knew. I didn't think I knew as much as

22:42 I knew about this case. I think I didn't realize that

22:44 things that I knew were were considered the family.

22:49 I think that's because when I started getting into, I'm like,

22:50 oh, no, I have. I've read this before and I've

22:52 heard this before and like I pieced it all together.

22:54 I think it's one of those things where I've kind of gone, yeah,

22:56 I've heard this, but hadn't kept like, actually, yeah, just

23:00 consolidated it all into being under this bracket.

23:04 I have to admit, though, I remember when we were doing the

23:06 Beaumont Children and Bevan Spencer von Eimann came up in

23:10 that and I was like mortified when I was reading about him

23:14 then. And now we come back around and

23:16 get to sort of discuss him here that it's like.

23:20 And how he actually ended up. Yeah, it's it's.

23:23 Yeah. Yeah, I, I'm so, oh, there's a

23:28 lot. There's a lot there.

23:30 I don't. I mean, I don't even know if we

23:31 will. We'll cover everything.

23:33 And because there is so much of this that people connect.

23:36 To it. That's right.

23:37 And that's the thing, like a lot of there's a lot of things in

23:41 this case are unproven, unsubstantiated, untested in

23:44 court. Yes, a lot.

23:46 And so it is a really tough thing to kind of weed out what

23:51 we want to talk about in these episodes.

23:52 Definitely, you know, there's hundreds, hundreds of cases

23:55 potentially connected to these people, people who again, we

23:59 don't even know who all those people are.

24:01 No. So it's it's a really tough, I

24:03 found it really tough to. Research, it's really hard to

24:05 research because there's names that are suppressed to do with

24:08 it as well. So in looking at from different

24:11 perspectives or trying to find research on it, when you start

24:14 sort of getting into places where you go, well, I can't get

24:16 any further there because that name is, I don't know who that

24:18 name is. I'm looking for is really hard.

24:21 Yep. And then there's the whole Why

24:23 is that? What's going on, 100?

24:26 Percent for getting into that. Maybe next episode we'll be

24:29 talking about that. Yes.

24:31 But yeah. We will try and do this in a,

24:35 you know, a format that we can follow through of like what the

24:38 information is. Yeah, as much as we.

24:40 Can like when we were talking about how we were going to sort

24:43 of split this up even then there's some crossover but we're

24:47 going to do our best to kind of keep things in an order that

24:49 will make sense to people I'm. Not lying on Emma for that,

24:52 yeah. Don't worry, my brain.

24:54 Works in odd ways. Shit will pop in everywhere.

24:59 So let's first start by talking about the time.

25:03 Yep, OK, Yep. So we're talking about late

25:06 1970s, early 1980s in the very quiet or what was the very quiet

25:12 city of Adelaide. And I think, you know, the

25:16 perception out there is that Adelaide is a quite sleepy

25:20 little. Town with a class of churches.

25:22 Yeah, it's cool. Well, yeah, is.

25:25 It is it And why is it called that?

25:26 I mean, I know there's a lot of churches, but also it is

25:31 described as like a giant country town.

25:33 It is. Adelaide is the capital of South

25:35 Australia, one of our states, but not that many people live

25:39 there. I think in the state of SA, I

25:41 think there's only roughly 1,000,000 people.

25:43 Yeah, in the city of Melbourne, where we are, there's 3 million

25:45 people. I think there's 5 million in

25:47 Victoria. So yes, when we're talking about

25:50 the amount of people in the state, you know, it's a fifth of

25:53 the state that we live in. And so that kind of gives a

25:57 little bit of context for us especially and for those who

25:59 live in Victoria in terms of how small the city really is.

26:03 Size. Wise, though, it's.

26:05 In terms of yeah size, it's it is.

26:08 It's just as big as Vic in a different shape, you know.

26:12 Yeah, but the population is a lot smaller.

26:14 So it's a really, I mean, have you spent much time, you've

26:17 recently travelled through Adelaide, doing a through SA?

26:20 I've not spent a lot of time in South Australia.

26:23 I've sort of done Robe and Victor Harbour, those sorts of,

26:27 you know, beachside towns or sort of thing, extension from

26:29 the beautiful, from the Great Ocean Road sort of stuff.

26:32 That's yeah. But I haven't, I've actually

26:34 never been to Adelaide. OK.

26:36 Yeah. So I've not, I've sort of

26:38 skipped over it, yeah. So it's not somewhere I'm that

26:41 familiar with in that sense, but quite familiar with the number

26:46 of murder cases that come out of it.

26:48 Well. We just sort of, we've talked

26:49 about this before, like Adelaide comes up a lot when we're

26:53 looking at Australian true crimes.

26:55 Yeah, it's they've got a disproportionate amount of of

27:01 crimes and especially like really brutal crimes.

27:04 I mean, we've covered Snowtown. That's right.

27:06 The Beaumont children. Yeah.

27:08 What about the the girls who went missing from the the

27:10 Adelaide over? We haven't covered that.

27:13 That might be more a Patreon type episode.

27:15 There's not a huge amount in that case.

27:17 But when I say when I say that though, those girls are still

27:20 missing to this day. Yeah.

27:22 And I think most people would probably have a little bit of an

27:24 idea about what that case is about.

27:26 But, you know, those two little girls went missing from Adelaide

27:28 over one day, never to be seen again.

27:32 And there's a lot of cases like that.

27:35 Yeah. Come out of Adelaide.

27:37 Yeah, a lot. I mean, Ivan Milat, you know,

27:40 there's just so much there, isn't there?

27:42 Yeah, I mean, we said, you know, it's known as the City of

27:45 Churches, but it also sort of gets called called the City of

27:48 Corpses for that reason. So that's so fair.

27:51 Yeah, it's it is known, just that there's some real and what

27:55 I find interesting about the cases that come out of Adelaide,

27:57 it's not even how many cases that come out of Adelaide.

28:00 It's the bizarreness of them. Yeah.

28:02 And the complexity of it and that, yeah, there's some real,

28:05 real interesting people who choose to call Adelaide home.

28:08 Yeah. And you know, the other thing,

28:09 though, that I've found is that in a lot of cases it's people

28:13 immigrating or migrating to SA. It's not people who've naturally

28:17 been born there. So maybe it attracts, it's a

28:19 certain type of person, true, because it's quiet and it's

28:22 maybe a little unassuming and you can maybe hide out a bit

28:25 more there. I don't know.

28:26 Yeah, yeah, it's really it flies under the radar.

28:29 Yeah, it really does. So the family murders are a

28:34 series of murders. We don't actually even really

28:37 know exactly how many are attributed to this family.

28:41 And we will get into a lot more about why it's called that and

28:43 who's involved as we go along, but this happened.

28:49 Between 197978. 79. Yeah, 1983 is where we're sort

28:55 of plonking this that we're talking about.

28:58 Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're going to talk

29:00 about 5, I'm guessing. Yeah, of like murders that

29:05 occurred. But as we said, I mean I I could

29:09 find like numbers of about 150. Plus I read in places like could

29:14 be. 200, this is it. I mean, I was conservatively

29:17 like going like 150 would be. You know, I feel like easy

29:22 number to serve to say conservatively that there aren't

29:26 that many sort of people who could be said to be affected by

29:29 this. Yeah.

29:30 So we're not, we're not necessarily talking, that's

29:32 right. We're not talking about

29:33 necessarily that that led to murder.

29:35 No, I think what we can say is that this is a really typical

29:40 escalation that we can see because potentially, I mean,

29:43 again, no one's been convicted of all of this.

29:48 So well, not no, certainly haven't been convicted of all of

29:51 it. And so there's a lot that we

29:53 don't actually know. Preceding this 1979 case that

29:59 we're going to talk about in a moment were a lot of stories

30:04 that have slowly come out over time of men being targeted and

30:12 raped and kidnapped and then let go and then absolutely tortured.

30:19 And So what, I guess the first case we're talking about was

30:25 just the first murder. It wasn't actually the first

30:28 assault, the first kidnapping, the first, yeah, as you said,

30:31 torture of these young men. Well.

30:33 In that yeah, that the same demographic I guess and fit the

30:37 same Moi guess because there are some other murders that occur

30:43 prior to these that could be connected and have slightly

30:49 different reasonings around them.

30:51 I guess that involve different aged people to what we're going

30:56 to talk about all that sort of thing.

30:57 So it's but they seem to be from what people have come to with

31:01 now with information piercing things together.

31:03 They seem to be also linked to what's going on.

31:07 I think it's also probably like, I think we probably need to look

31:12 at some of the things with a bit of AI, don't know a hat on or

31:19 what. I don't know.

31:20 But to think of it as a lot of armchair detectives, yeah, have

31:24 their say in this. And I think it's muddied the

31:26 waters in a lot of these cases. And I'm not saying it's for the

31:29 better or for the worse. No, because The thing is, if

31:32 they if, if all these people hadn't come to this and bringing

31:34 this information and finding this out, what were the Hong

31:37 Kong police doing? Yeah.

31:38 Who was supposed to be like? I mean, we can get angry about

31:41 that as we go. Yeah, but there's a lot of stuff

31:44 that hasn't been looked into. And why is that and why then has

31:48 it been that it's been needed to be armchair detectives to come

31:51 in and find information out? Yeah.

31:53 I mean, I say armchair detectives, some of them have

31:55 been, you know, journalists, you know, so, you know, know what

31:58 they're doing. Like investigative,

31:59 investigative journalists have done a lot on this case.

32:02 Yeah. So it's definitely comes with

32:05 supported evidence. Yep.

32:07 But there's others that doesn't that don't as well.

32:09 So it's and it's trying to pick through the weeds of all of that

32:12 to try and find the information that we're going to bring you

32:13 today. Because yeah, that was kind of

32:15 tricky. I found, yeah, that you could

32:17 definitely find information all over the place about people

32:19 saying I know some, I know someone who knows someone, yeah,

32:22 who said this. And that's what I found.

32:24 When I was researching this, it's a lot of like, yes, someone

32:27 told me something, yeah, yeah, OK, but where's that person?

32:30 And that person's either not able to be found, is deceased or

32:34 is not willing to come forward. And then yeah, how do you

32:36 corroborate that? And.

32:37 Or even those that have come forward again, how do you

32:40 corroborate what they're saying too?

32:41 Because or are they just, are they exaggerating or jump or are

32:45 they? Yeah, Are they?

32:46 Yeah. So it's really tricky in places

32:48 to know what what is real and what's facts.

32:51 That is very, very, very true. So this is, we're going to be

32:56 talking specifically about these cases today of these young men

33:00 who were kidnapped, brutally assaulted, drugged and murdered

33:08 and how that all came about and what came after.

33:12 Yeah. They are known as the family

33:15 murders. And we will get to that.

33:17 Why they were called that in probably in next week's episode.

33:20 Yeah. So the first case occurred in on

33:24 the 17th of June in 1979. Now this is just absolutely

33:33 horrific. They are all absolutely

33:36 horrific. Yeah.

33:38 The first boy, now he was a boy. He was 16 years of age at the

33:43 time of his kidnapping and murder.

33:47 He was. His name was Ellen Barnes, and

33:50 he was a handsome, carefree, sarcastic, cheeky young man.

33:54 The surfer dude. Like, everything.

33:57 Like, have you seen his mum interviewed?

33:59 Yeah. Salt to the earth.

34:00 Absolutely. I was just like, oh, you poor

34:02 woman. You can see the pain in her

34:03 face. Yeah, and his sister too, who's

34:05 finally come forward. She wouldn't come forward for a

34:07 long time, but she she's been, she's come forward more recently

34:10 and again, like just feel for them.

34:13 Like they've gone for years now with no answers really, I guess,

34:15 which is awful. Yeah.

34:17 Yeah. So.

34:20 On this particular night, Ellen was loved the party scene, loved

34:24 going out in Adelaide and having a really good time with his

34:27 mates and he had this best mate named Darko, who hasn't had a

34:33 friend with a surname ending in a No Stevo Darko.

34:36 I don't know, it's very Australian.

34:40 The night. So the night before he went

34:43 missing, but the night before Ellen went missing.

34:47 Darko and Ellen had gone out for the night, and then they went to

34:50 stay at Darko's house for the night.

34:52 This was a very typical thing that they did.

34:54 They were besties. They would often stay at one

34:56 another's homes. Yeah.

34:59 The next. What was it around midday by the

35:00 time they woke up the next day and Ellen's like oh, I'd better

35:03 get home to mom. And they decided to.

35:08 So they've both actually walked down to the bus stop where Ellen

35:14 was going to, you know, try and grab a bus.

35:16 And it was, I don't know if it was a Sunday or something, but

35:19 it was going to be a while before the next bus came.

35:21 So, yeah, Ellen decided that maybe he'd try and hitchhike

35:25 home. It was something he'd done

35:26 multiple times before, and it was something that was done a

35:30 lot at that time. Yeah.

35:32 In the 70s, we, we've talked about this in so many other

35:35 cases, the Clermont killings, like, and not that that's in SA,

35:39 but kids around that era, yeah, would often bum a lift home with

35:43 someone hitchhiking, get a lift home with someone.

35:45 Yes. So the two boys were standing

35:48 there. They decided that Ellen was

35:50 going to hitchhike home, but they thought, oh, I don't know

35:54 if people are going to stop and pick up two boys.

35:56 So Darko's like, oh, you know what, I think I might just head

36:00 home. And that way you you've probably

36:01 got an easier time of being. Picked up that was that split up

36:05 just trying get one individually, get a car

36:07 individually rather than two guys at once.

36:09 Yeah, yeah. So what actually happened that

36:12 day was Ellen was seen by. So this was an acquaintance of

36:17 Ellen's. So this bloke, I think they'd

36:20 work together or something. And he kind of knew Ellen to

36:24 look at him anyway. And he was in his car driving

36:28 along, and he kind of noticed that Ellen was at the bus stop

36:31 hitchhiking. And he looked in his rearview

36:34 mirror and he was like, oh, someone's actually stopped to

36:37 pick Ellen up. And what he noticed was a, a

36:41 white HQ Holden, a sedan with three or four people in the car

36:45 already. And he kind of, he didn't

36:48 actually see Ellen get in the car, but by the time he pulled

36:52 off to go again, he looked back in his rearview mirror and Ellen

36:56 was no longer on the street. So he assumed he'd gotten into

37:00 that car and someone had, you know, picked him up hitchhiking

37:04 and was going to take him home. Yeah.

37:06 Now he didn't get home. Unfortunately, his mom that

37:13 night thought it was really strange that he hadn't come

37:15 home. She was definitely expecting him

37:17 to be there that night, had phoned his friend, had phoned

37:20 Daco's be like, where is he? What's going on?

37:23 And no one sort of knew where he was.

37:26 So she ended up reporting him missing to the local police that

37:31 night. Now, this poor woman, I, my

37:35 heart broke when she was sort of describing the realization of

37:40 what came of it because what she said was the next she kind of

37:44 knew. Obviously, she was just worried.

37:47 And it was horrific. But I think it was like less

37:51 than 48 hours later, his body was found in.

37:56 It was like at the bottom of a bridge.

37:58 Yeah, it's under a bridge. It's S power.

38:01 Sorry. Yeah, S power reservoir.

38:03 Yeah, so S power reservoir, if it was full, it would have

38:10 basically filled to for the water to go under the bridge.

38:13 Yeah, but it had been a very dry summer.

38:17 Yeah. And the bridge and sorry.

38:18 And the water had receded so far that it was actually just like a

38:21 muddy embankment under the bridge.

38:23 There's. Sort of a thought that he was

38:25 potentially thrown off the bridge thinking that the person

38:27 thinking that, that then his body would land in the water and

38:30 he'd be floated away and that'd be that.

38:32 Kind of like sinking into the mud.

38:34 Yeah, but that's. But there wasn't enough water

38:37 there for that to happen. And so his body was exposed, you

38:40 know, and not, not hidden by the water and that sort of thing.

38:42 Yeah, so his mum talks about watching the news and the news

38:47 reported that they'd found a 20 odd year old man's body at the,

38:54 what was it called? Through the S power reservoir.

38:56 Yeah. And she was, she, she said she

39:00 just knew immediately that that was him.

39:02 So she rang the police and she's like, he's not 20, he's 16 and

39:05 he's my son. Oh, that got me.

39:07 Odd 00. Just awful.

39:11 What they found is that he had died from massive blood loss due

39:17 to severe internal injuries, most specifically to his anal

39:23 cavity. Yeah, yeah, most likely due to

39:27 insertion of a large blunt object.

39:29 Yeah. So when they say a large blunt

39:31 object, it's really interesting. A lot of places I've seen have

39:35 have said it was probably like a beer bottle or something like

39:38 that. I've also heard other theories,

39:41 which we will get to later on down the track when we talk

39:43 about other victims in this circumstance.

39:45 But we don't know what that object was.

39:48 It's interesting, but it caused such trauma to that area that

39:53 the blood loss was enough to kill a person.

39:56 So that gives you an idea of just how severe that trauma was.

40:00 Absolutely. Now his body did also show that

40:03 he'd been beaten and tortured, so and there was a lot of other

40:07 marks on the body to suggest that there was more that went on

40:12 than just the obviously the rape.

40:18 There was also Noctech found in his blood, suggesting that he'd

40:23 been drugged. Other sedatives as well and he

40:27 had a blood alcohol concentration of .19.

40:31 Now. His mum was like, well, when he

40:33 left his friend on that day at midday, he wouldn't have had any

40:39 alcohol in the system. He wasn't a massive drinker

40:41 anyway. But you know, to have a blood

40:44 alcohol concentration of .19%, that's pretty significant.

40:50 Yeah, you'd be quite impaired by that.

40:52 Yeah, that's a, that's a big night out, Yeah.

40:54 Yeah. Now the police did receive.

40:57 So this was kind of at this time, it was a stand alone sort

41:01 of thing. It was definitely widely

41:03 reported within the media because I mean, when a body is

41:06 found in such a circumstance, it's, you know, it's it's an

41:11 anomaly really. And it's something that really

41:14 draws people's attention. So it was all over the news.

41:17 It was in newspapers to a certain extent.

41:20 It wasn't like it was in there for days.

41:22 It was a story for a day. The police got an anonymous call

41:28 saying that there was somebody they had a name of a person who

41:33 they thought may have been involved with this, with this

41:36 murder. And that person was Bevan

41:38 Spencer von Einem. So just keep that, keep that in

41:41 your, in your mind, the. Other thing, sorry, with the

41:44 body that we should probably should mention too, was that

41:46 there was a couple other things that were notable in that the

41:48 whole body had been washed and he had been redressed, but not

41:54 in his clothing. Yeah.

41:55 That he was seen in wearing that last scene, Yeah.

41:58 So yeah. So the police were doing what

42:03 they should have done, and they were looking at all of the

42:05 people closest to him to start with.

42:08 And so they were slowly eliminating, you know, as they

42:11 do, going in concentric circles out from the person.

42:14 And it took them a long time to sort of get to the point where

42:19 they were investigating the tips that came in through the Crime

42:22 Stopper type phone calls that had come in.

42:25 Yeah. So let's leave that one there

42:30 for now. Yeah.

42:32 So we're now in August of 1979. So yeah, not very far after

42:41 this. No, only a couple months really.

42:43 Yeah. A man by the name of Neil Muir,

42:47 who was 25 years of age at the time his body was found in a

42:55 garbage bag in the Port River in August of 1979.

43:02 Yeah, this one's pretty awful. This one's really, really awful.

43:08 So Neil had LED a fairly transient lifestyle.

43:12 Yeah, he was known. He was, he was a drug addict.

43:17 He was trying to recover. He was in at the time of his

43:20 death, he was actually in a methadone pro program that

43:23 wasn't working for him. He'd actually become addicted to

43:26 methadone, unfortunately, on top of the other drugs, he'd held

43:31 down sporadic jobs here and there.

43:33 He'd worked at the meatpacking farm.

43:36 Meatpacking factory, sorry, in SA.

43:42 And look, he was very well liked by people in general.

43:47 Yeah. And his family say that he was,

43:49 you know, he was just kind of a good country boy.

43:51 He was a bit of a loner, but not in that he was weird.

43:54 No, it was more that he liked his own company.

43:58 Yeah. He was just a really kind of

44:02 good down to earth person. And he just happened to get

44:05 involved with the wrong people in his teens, and it kind of put

44:09 him on a path that he probably wasn't otherwise destined for.

44:12 Yeah, yeah. But he's like disappearance at

44:15 first it didn't trigger the same alarm as like as Alan's did.

44:19 Was really looking for him. Yeah.

44:20 No one was looking for him in this.

44:22 It was unexpected for him to go sort of missing for a few days

44:25 here and there because of his his past with, you know, use of

44:29 drugs and things like that. So it wasn't Yeah, people

44:32 weren't kind of going, hey, he hasn't turned up today.

44:34 Yeah, well, that's that was kind of him, you know, that sort of

44:36 fitted, but there was unfortunately things to be

44:41 looked at here. So when his body did turn up, so

44:44 obviously no one was looking for him before his body turned up

44:46 sort of thing. Basically what I'm trying to

44:47 say, yes, Yeah, his body was just fans.

44:50 It was a. Couple of days after he was

44:52 murdered, yeah. Or last seen.

44:53 Alive. So he was seen coming out of a

44:56 hotel in Adelaide. That was the last known

45:00 sighting, sighting of him. But because he wasn't as, I

45:04 guess tracked as much as a kid like Alan was in that he was 16

45:08 and had a family to go home to like that, you know, that

45:10 someone was expecting him home. The one was expecting, you know,

45:13 for, for, for Neil to sort of appear or not appear on a

45:18 particular day, I guess. So, yeah, his body did turn up

45:21 in the garbage bag in the port, in Port Adelaide, in Port River.

45:27 And it was, this was, it was really off.

45:30 I mean, they had been his. His body had been dissected

45:34 neatly. It had been neatly cut up into

45:37 lots of different parts. Neil did have tattoos and those

45:41 parts of his, his skin that had tattoos on them had been

45:44 removed. So it was, it's almost like

45:46 trying to make him not identifiable.

45:48 I don't know. No.

45:50 Oh, sorry, because isn't that at all?

45:51 They cutting that in the bag. So.

45:53 That's what I couldn't work out. Yeah.

45:54 So they dissected his skin and his muscle from his bone.

46:00 Yeah, because a small intestine was missing.

46:02 Yeah, they then. There was a few thing, couple of

46:04 things missing him. So they then the person who

46:08 perpetrated this then actually put like skinned him.

46:12 They cut his tattoos out almost perfectly, put them into a bag

46:16 and placed that back. So they emptied all of his

46:18 organs out of his body. They oh, this is horrific.

46:22 They decapitated him and to secure his head to his body,

46:27 they put a yellow nylon rope through his mouth, out of his

46:33 neck and then tied that around his sternum.

46:37 Then in the like in his chest cavity, they there was a bag

46:42 that was full of there was his arm limbs, it was his skin with

46:47 the tattoos on it, muscle fingers were in a separate bag

46:52 and his testicles and his penis was in another bag.

46:57 One of his testicles was in the bag, the other one was never

47:01 found. So the investigators query

47:05 whether the perpetrator either ate it or kept it as a memento

47:10 or a trophy. He was also brutally tortured,

47:18 anally so, in a similar manner. Yeah, the autopsy sort of

47:24 suggested that the same as Alan, the cause of death was massive

47:30 blood loss from the anal injury. So even though all these other

47:34 things are being done to his body post mortem.

47:37 Yeah, that was all post mortem. That was all that the actual

47:39 what had killed him was the an anal injury injury again.

47:42 Yeah, there's and there was sort of a suggestion when I, when I

47:44 was reading something which would, this is so gross and I

47:47 apologize to people now before I say it, that the way the body

47:50 was put together like that was to make it easier for one person

47:55 to carry it, to make it almost like a bag.

47:58 Yeah, OK. Which I thought.

47:59 Was That's horrible. Disgusting.

48:01 But at the same time that OK, right?

48:03 Yeah. Yeah.

48:06 Oh, just awful. In one of the bags that were in

48:09 his chest cavity as well, there was a Band-Aid and on that

48:13 Band-Aid there were some fibers that they were able to that

48:17 forensics were able to kind of have a look at and try to match

48:21 to someone. So that was something that was,

48:24 you know, helpful in terms of the investigation.

48:28 When police started investigating this, obviously

48:31 they're trying to figure out his last movements, what happened,

48:34 who he was associated with. And they found that he'd been

48:37 associated with AGP by the name of Doctor Peter Milhouse.

48:42 Now he was AGP in the area. He was quite well respected in

48:54 his field and he was known to assist patients who are addicts,

49:00 in particular in terms of getting them on methadone

49:03 programs and prescribing medications that they needed in

49:07 order to assist them with their drug addiction and, and sort of

49:12 recovery from, from drug addiction.

49:16 Oh, this man, just what do you think about him?

49:20 Alarm bells. Alarm bells 100%.

49:22 Because there's so much of this particular one that that words

49:27 that kept being sort of mentioned as I was reading about

49:29 what how the body was treated were words like deliberate and

49:34 controlled, which to me suggests someone with a medical

49:39 background. Well, look it when the autopsy

49:41 in part of the autopsy report for this they the OR the coroner

49:45 actually wrote at the bare minimum basic medical

49:50 background. Yeah.

49:52 It's almost certain, yeah. I mean, you there had to be

49:56 knowledge there to be able to do what they did.

49:59 Human anatomy anyway, so it's not even like like, So what is?

50:03 Also, we haven't actually said none of his organs were ever

50:07 found. No, his organs weren't bagged up

50:09 and put inside his body. No, they were never found.

50:14 And So what happened to his organs?

50:16 Like whoa. And again, we should say his

50:18 body. There's what was in there, the

50:20 bag, though, all those body parts, they had all been very

50:23 thoroughly washed and cleaned again.

50:26 Yeah. Which, yeah.

50:28 So that to me is again indicating someone who has some

50:32 knowledge again of, I don't know of like forensics, you know, of

50:36 what could be found from a body. As well a basic understanding of

50:39 how evidence can be left behind or how to get rid of biological.

50:43 Evidence. Yeah, Yeah.

50:45 Yeah, hard agree. So the police are kind of now

50:50 investigating this. But they don't actually link the

50:52 two at this point, No. So we should say two.

50:55 Yeah. So these two bodies have turned

50:56 up within a couple of months of each other.

50:58 And I mean, I have to say immediately, just by the cause

51:00 of death, to be honest, that should have just gone.

51:03 These are connected, absolutely. But that's not what happened

51:06 here at all. So there's no connecting these

51:08 two deaths by the police in or you know, in 701979 these are

51:13 two separate murders to the police right now.

51:15 But also, Noctech was found in in Neil's system as well.

51:20 So the same drug was found, the same anal injury that caused

51:24 massive blood loss, which actually led to the death of

51:27 each of these. Yeah, young men.

51:29 Surely that would have been going well.

51:31 There's got to be something between these two, connecting

51:33 them, but. But no, no, no, not at this

51:35 point. So the police are honing in at

51:37 this stage on the relationship that they found that Peter

51:42 Milhouse had with Neil Muir. They were acquaintances, they'd

51:46 known each other for four years. There is a lot of speculation

51:51 about their relationship and what happened between the two of

51:53 them. When I say speculation, I'm

51:56 talking about things like the fact that maybe Neil was

52:00 performing sexual favours for Peter in exchange for drugs and

52:10 other narcotics that he couldn't get otherwise.

52:13 Because we're just going to throw it in there at the moment

52:15 at that. And this will come back to of

52:17 like the person doing this was getting access to drugs, where

52:22 from where from? Had to be a doctor somewhere.

52:27 Definitely, yeah. So in January of 1980.

52:33 So this was probably what, four or five months after the murder?

52:39 The Milhouse was actually charged for Neil's murder.

52:44 Now it was a 24 day trial. A lot of people get, I think

52:49 something like 94 or something. People get 98, something like

52:54 that gave evidence, and the prosecution really thought they

52:59 had a really good case, but it was definitely very

53:01 circumstantial. So what they had was they were

53:05 able to place Peter and Neil together on the day of Neil's

53:09 disappearance. They were able to show that Neil

53:15 had had and Peter had had a sexual relationship They'd been

53:19 in with each other's company. Did I say that for four years?

53:21 Yeah, at that point, there was a lot of stories that came out

53:27 during this trial, one of which was that Milhouse had asked Neil

53:30 to urinate on him in exchange for methadone when he was like

53:33 deep in the trenches in terms of his methadone addiction.

53:39 There's a lot of really sketchy shit that was going on there.

53:43 God, yeah. The other thing that was kind of

53:45 circumstantial, given the nature of their relationship is I

53:50 mentioned before that there was a Band-Aid found inside one of

53:53 the bags of the chest cavity that sorry, in Neil's chest

53:56 cavity. And there were fibers on that

53:59 particular Band-Aid and those fibers, when the police went and

54:02 did a raid and a search of Milhouses house, they found that

54:08 the fibers from the rug in his lounge room, I think it was,

54:12 could have potentially matched those that were found somewhat.

54:16 It was not conclusive whatsoever.

54:18 So we're talking like 7980, like, I mean, I mean, I'm

54:23 tipping today technology, technology would be that it may

54:25 be more definitively give an answer to that.

54:28 I mean, pretty impressive. I think at that point they're

54:30 just looking at the microscopes, kind of going like, Oh yeah, it

54:32 looks a bit similar. Yeah.

54:34 Yeah, so very hard to pinpoint, but.

54:37 Definitely. Yeah.

54:38 But the jury after the 24 day trial came back and found Peter

54:43 not guilty. He then went and worked in a

54:46 fairly remote part of SA and was doing some locum GP ING around

54:55 there. But we will probably get back to

54:57 him, will we? Yeah, maybe.

54:59 Yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to think if

55:04 there's anything else to talk about in terms of Neil's murder.

55:09 One of the things I've just written down here, actually, is

55:13 that there was a suggestion around the time from an again,

55:20 an anonymous. Anonymous.

55:23 It's late. I'm not used to being up this

55:25 late. From an anonymous tipster, yes,

55:29 who suggested that Peter Milhouse was involved in

55:33 securing boys for Bev and Spencer, one item and in

55:39 particular in securing boys and men who are on these sort of

55:45 methadone type programs because they were easy targets.

55:49 So which again, Bev and Spencer, one item's name comes up again.

55:54 Yet these two murders are still being looked at as very separate

55:58 cases from the police. Yeah, yeah.

56:03 The next murder happened in 1981.

56:07 Now this is tragic because it involves the death of 14 year

56:11 old 14 year. Old.

56:14 The youngest that we'll talk about here, Peter Stockneff.

56:17 Yeah, this was awful. So he was so young.

56:20 So young and so gorgeous. And his mum.

56:23 Jesus, did she break me? Oh my God.

56:26 Yes. She describes him as being

56:29 musical, a really good friend. Quiet.

56:33 Gentle. Really gentle boy and her

56:36 friend, like I, I just thought, oh, I kind of, I get that, you

56:40 know, he was just, yeah, a lovely, really nice boy.

56:46 Yeah, really, really nice boy. And at 14, just.

56:49 My God, yeah. So he disappeared on the 27th of

56:53 August in 1981. Now I feel like, I mean I've

56:58 never done this because I'm a bloody straighty 180, but he

57:02 decided to so in the week leading up to his disappearance.

57:07 So his uncle actually was the same age as him or pretty much

57:12 the same age as him. He was 15 years old.

57:13 His name is Daniel and they had planned to skip it.

57:19 They didn't. I don't think they went to the

57:20 same school. But they'd plan to skip a day of

57:23 school. Yeah.

57:24 And meet at Rundle Mall, which is like in the centre of

57:27 Adelaide. Yes.

57:28 And I don't know, just skive off for the day and have some fun

57:31 and not actually go to school. Yeah.

57:33 And according to his family, some of that wasn't something

57:35 typical of him. No.

57:36 No, like even his sister is like oh he wouldn't like it was.

57:40 Not what he did on. The not what he would do, but

57:42 no. So this is probably a big deal

57:43 for him. Yeah.

57:44 So much so that his cousin. Oh, sorry.

57:47 His uncle Daniel, he kind of pulled out the night before, I

57:51 think. And I'm pretty sure everyone

57:53 thinks that it's very, very likely that Peter knew that his

57:59 cousin wasn't sorry that his uncle was not going to be there.

58:02 Yeah, right. And So what?

58:04 But he's he was like, Nah, fuck it.

58:05 I've already decided. I've committed.

58:07 I'm going through with it. I'm doing it.

58:08 I'm doing it not. Going to school.

58:10 So he left for school in inverted commas the next morning

58:15 and and he waited for his mom and dad to go to work and his

58:18 sister to go to school, and he quickly snuck back and left his

58:22 school bag in the garage, got changed and went out for the

58:25 day. Yeah, Now, it's unlikely that he

58:28 made it to Rundle Mall because he was actually seen at their

58:32 local shopping center. Now, this is an unsubstantiated

58:37 report because there's no corroboration, but this witness

58:40 is pretty adamant that she saw what she saw and she knew Peter,

58:44 so she knew him. Yeah.

58:46 What she says is that she saw him getting into.

58:50 Sorry. She saw him having a chat with a

58:53 dark skinned or a tanned man who was dressed quite effeminately

58:59 with a bag like a women's handbag and at the local

59:04 shopping center. Yeah, she said that something

59:07 really seemed off about this whole situation, but she didn't

59:12 really do anything about it. It's hard.

59:16 It's really, really hard. I'm sure it's something she

59:18 regrets to this day. It was.

59:20 A different time too though, like.

59:21 It's time ten months later. So he goes missing and his mum

59:27 and dad like it's, it's horrible.

59:31 But they don't know anything that's happened.

59:34 So they figure out. So obviously he doesn't come

59:37 home that night. They ring everyone they know.

59:41 They eventually get on to the uncle, the 15 year old uncle

59:44 who's like, oh, we were actually meant to skip school today and I

59:48 didn't end up going. And so they've got a bit of an

59:51 idea that he's still gone on and done that.

59:53 It was months before they put together even this witness

59:56 statement from the local shops. It was way too late to actually

59:59 be doing anything to really action it.

1:00:02 Now, 10 months later, a farmer, I think it was about 50 KS from

1:00:09 where he disappeared. Yeah.

1:00:10 Middle Beach, 50 KS north of Adelaide.

1:00:13 Yeah. He, this farmer is, I think it's

1:00:18 now coming into what would it be into, into summer, in the

1:00:22 summer. So yeah.

1:00:22 So he's burning, burning to back burning.

1:00:25 And there was a lot of, I think, BlackBerry shrubs that he was

1:00:27 back burning this particular farmer.

1:00:30 And when he was kind of like, clearing what had been burned,

1:00:35 he noticed a body. Yeah.

1:00:38 Because at that point, yeah, obviously he had no idea that

1:00:40 that was there. And he wasn't buried.

1:00:43 He was kind of like. There, there was no hiding his

1:00:46 body other than the fact that it was dumped in the middle of this

1:00:50 paddock land where, you know, where it was.

1:00:53 A bit of coverage, but nothing, nothing major.

1:00:56 Yeah. So unfortunately, this farm has

1:00:57 then come across it. Yeah, his body, but it's not a

1:01:00 body. It's it's it's skeletal.

1:01:02 But but what we can tell from the body is that it was chopped

1:01:08 into pieces again. So there was a number of parts

1:01:13 to him. He had been sewn into different

1:01:15 sections similar to other the others, however, because we had

1:01:21 no, you know, soft tissue, we don't know about anal injuries

1:01:28 and we don't know about drugs, you know, being in the bit or

1:01:31 alcohol in the, in the blood. So we don't have that evidence.

1:01:35 But the the the way the body had been left, there were somewhat

1:01:41 similarities in how the body had been treated from that little

1:01:45 bit that we did have which. It's kind of a bit unfortunate

1:01:48 that the fire happened because I think it destroyed.

1:01:51 Destroyed any other evidence that put it right there.

1:01:53 Clothing that was potentially on and this.

1:01:57 This skeletal remains where unfortunately, I mean, look in

1:02:00 the farm, it's not his fault. No, by no means.

1:02:02 But unfortunately, yeah, there's a lot lost there that you could

1:02:05 then use to, you know, link these to the others, to the

1:02:09 other cases. We can make a fairly good

1:02:12 assumption from the little bit that we have from that, that I

1:02:16 think if that he would have been treated the same way,

1:02:19 unfortunately, as the others. I think, I think now sort of

1:02:23 knowing a little bit more because what then came of this

1:02:26 is that the so the person that he was identified with at the

1:02:31 local cafe by this particular woman, eventually it was found

1:02:36 that this person was an associate of Bevan Spencer von

1:02:41 Inem. His name was Noel Brooke.

1:02:43 He was an Aboriginal man who was known a known homosexual.

1:02:50 Now none of this has actually been confirmed or prosecuted in

1:02:54 a court of law. This is just speculation.

1:02:57 I think that's really worth noting.

1:02:59 This man's name is so the I think the nickname of this man

1:03:06 is Dee Dee. I've seen it, sort of.

1:03:08 Yeah, I believe he's dead now. I.

1:03:11 Believe so. I remember of my other notes,

1:03:13 I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's.

1:03:16 Dead. He was known to dress

1:03:18 effeminately, which is exactly what this witness had seen.

1:03:21 And yeah, there were a lot of, again, very circumstantial

1:03:25 things that potentially meant it could have been this person, the

1:03:28 fact that he's a known associate of Bevan Spencer.

1:03:30 One item will come into play more next episode next week when

1:03:34 we talk a little bit more about him.

1:03:36 Yes. Yeah, okay, so so we're up to.

1:03:40 Before we found the body. No, no, you're right.

1:03:42 Before we found the body of Peter Stoknoff, though in the

1:03:45 interim, because he's there was quite a lengthy period between

1:03:48 Peter going missing and the body being found.

1:03:51 There was actually another person who had gone missing.

1:03:53 So in the February of 1982, which yeah, it was, was October

1:03:57 82 when Peter's body was found. So.

1:04:01 February of that year. So February of that year, so

1:04:05 four or five months after Peter went missing, the another person

1:04:09 went missing. So this is Mark Langley.

1:04:10 So Mark was 18 years of age. He was last seen after having an

1:04:16 argument with friends, which it was such a silly argument that

1:04:20 they had. And now looking back at sort of

1:04:23 one of those things where you kind of go, you know, I'm sure

1:04:25 they all wish they didn't have that argument.

1:04:27 But you know what? You had no idea this is what

1:04:29 would go on. But he basically cracked it a

1:04:31 bit and said, I'm going, you know, like, and took off.

1:04:34 And that was the last they saw of him.

1:04:36 Yeah, so he'd been, they'd been at A at a family friend's 18th

1:04:40 birthday party. Yeah, on this particular night.

1:04:43 And he'd gone home. So his mum and dad were at that

1:04:45 birthday party too. Yeah, but he'd decided to go

1:04:48 home with some friends and there was an argument over cigarettes.

1:04:52 That's right. How 1980s of ya.

1:04:55 And I'm not exactly sure what. Maybe you wanted to bum one.

1:04:58 And they were like, Nah, fuck off, get your own cigarettes.

1:05:02 And so he cracked the shit so much that he got out of the car.

1:05:05 Yeah. And what happened was his

1:05:08 friends were like, oh, fuck him, we're going to leave him, but

1:05:10 we're just going to do a blocky. Yeah.

1:05:12 And we'll come back and pick him up.

1:05:13 Like, it'll be fine. It'll be fine.

1:05:15 You know, We'll show him. We'll show him.

1:05:17 Yeah. Well, in that 5 minutes, or less

1:05:20 than 5 minutes that it took them to do a blocky, he was gone.

1:05:24 He completely disappeared. Yeah, you just can't even

1:05:28 imagine that. No, not at all.

1:05:30 I mean, it's not what you. Yeah, so.

1:05:32 Did this happen at like 4:00 in the morning?

1:05:35 I think it was pretty. It was like wee hours of the.

1:05:37 Morning, The wee, wee hours of the morning.

1:05:39 Yeah. Because he was seen by a witness

1:05:41 at that time hitchhiking along the road that his friends had

1:05:44 dropped him on. Yes.

1:05:45 And getting into a white HHQ Holden.

1:05:50 Yeah. Sedan.

1:05:52 So the friends obviously have gone back around.

1:05:55 They can't find him. They're like, oh, he's obviously

1:05:57 figured out how to get himself home.

1:05:59 Or he's. I think they assumed it would

1:06:01 have just bombed a lift, like hitchhiking home.

1:06:03 Yeah. So the next afternoon, I think

1:06:06 it was, they called the Langley home and they spoke to Mark's,

1:06:12 Mark's dad, I believe, and said, oh, you know, is Mark OK?

1:06:16 You know, we had a bit of a tiff last night, just ringing to make

1:06:18 sure everything's OK. And they were like, oh, let me

1:06:21 go and get the phone. Let me go and get him, bring him

1:06:23 to the phone and they opened his bedroom door and he wasn't there

1:06:26 and his bed hadn't been slept in.

1:06:28 So that obviously, obviously immediately raised alarm bells.

1:06:33 Now his parents had the foresight and the wherewithal to

1:06:36 know that boys had been going missing in the area and this was

1:06:41 not something that they were going to rest on.

1:06:44 So they immediately contacted the police and reported him as a

1:06:47 missing person. Now they describe Mark as

1:06:51 someone who really liked girls, was into motor cars and

1:06:54 motorbikes and had a real zest for life.

1:06:57 They also say he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, Like

1:06:59 he wasn't academic at all, but he was really good at the things

1:07:03 he was good at. You know, that kind of a that

1:07:05 kind of a guy. His friends to this day, I think

1:07:09 they'd be in there what, 50s now, But they basically the

1:07:14 trauma of this still lingers with them to this day.

1:07:18 And how could it not? Oh.

1:07:19 Absolutely. Obviously for them, because it's

1:07:21 not. Oh my God, yes.

1:07:23 Hey, that that broke me. I mean, his dad's quoted sort of

1:07:26 saying, you know, like, what do you call these people that have

1:07:29 done this to my son? You know, like you can't call

1:07:31 them animals. Like they're not even that.

1:07:33 Like they're just not. Animals are too good.

1:07:35 Animals would be too good for them, like, oh, he just broke

1:07:38 me. Yeah.

1:07:39 Yeah. Beautiful family, you know, I

1:07:42 really, really feel for them, all the friends and family of

1:07:45 all these victims. But yeah, this one, this ones

1:07:47 tough. It was a couple of weeks later

1:07:49 that they found. Nine days after he disappeared.

1:07:52 Yeah, yeah. Again, his body.

1:07:56 Was this one again? It's where there was an element

1:07:59 of someone who is some sort of surgical skill involved.

1:08:02 Absolutely. So there was a cut and it's

1:08:05 surgical. He would, he'd been shaved as if

1:08:07 he was like going in for surgery that all this, the hair had been

1:08:10 shaved away from the area of where he'd been where the

1:08:13 incisions were. Yep, he was cut with a surgical

1:08:17 instrument is what the the autopsy revealed.

1:08:19 They said that it went from the navel to the pubic region and

1:08:24 part of his small bowel was missing.

1:08:27 Yeah, there was. So, yeah, all the hair had been

1:08:29 shaved off. He.

1:08:32 But again, he had died from massive blood loss from gross

1:08:37 injuries to his anus. So what the coroner inferred was

1:08:44 that the reason that this surgical incision had been made

1:08:47 from his navel to his pubic region was because whatever

1:08:51 they, whatever blunt object they'd used to rape him anally

1:08:58 had gotten stuck and they needed to remove it for some reason.

1:09:02 So whether they made there was like fingerprint on it or

1:09:05 something. Or they could have.

1:09:06 There could have been drugs, there could have been anything

1:09:08 in there that would have potentially given them away.

1:09:12 When the toxicology report came back on Mark, it found that he

1:09:17 had mandrax in his system. And now this is a really, really

1:09:21 interesting drug. So this drug was actually

1:09:24 originally used after World War 2, and it was used in soldiers

1:09:30 who were shell shocked and needed to kind of forget what

1:09:35 they'd witnessed on the frontline.

1:09:37 They called it like a sedative. Hypnotic drug, yeah, it was in,

1:09:40 in significant doses. It was used to kind of almost

1:09:44 erase memory. Yeah.

1:09:45 And it was something that by the time these murders took place,

1:09:50 so in the late 70s and early 80s, it wasn't really prescribed

1:09:54 very much in Australia anymore. The reason for that was because

1:09:58 we had better barbiturates that came on the market that was

1:10:02 safer and easier to control and didn't have these sort of like

1:10:08 blackout side effects necessarily, especially if

1:10:10 you're taking them at the prescribed doses.

1:10:13 And so the police started sort of looking more and more into,

1:10:19 well, actually, they didn't do a lot yet.

1:10:21 Point no again. They're still not really putting

1:10:25 together that, you know, these three bodies that we've got so

1:10:28 far. Yeah, you've got three bodies

1:10:30 with very consistent causes of death.

1:10:34 I mean, yeah, as we said, Peters, we can't say what the

1:10:36 cause of death was necessarily and link it to that.

1:10:38 Yeah, but there's other elements of that body that you would

1:10:40 still say could be connected to it.

1:10:43 Even just the positioning of his bodies, that's what I reckon,

1:10:46 yeah, I think they could have taken something from that.

1:10:49 As much as these bodies were being dumped in very different

1:10:52 areas, like I know it's a quite vast wait, like they distance

1:10:55 apart from each other. It's not like they're going to a

1:10:57 same area to dump these bodies. But the way that they're being

1:11:00 dumped is very similar. They're not being hidden,

1:11:02 they're just being plonked really.

1:11:04 They weren't buried. They weren't.

1:11:05 No, no, there was none of that though.

1:11:07 And again, we should say with Mark's body, he was washed.

1:11:11 Yep. And and also dressed in clothes

1:11:14 that were not his when his body was found.

1:11:17 So it's there are so many elements to each of these that

1:11:21 are so similar that I even believe that Peters, you could

1:11:25 connect enough to say I fully agree.

1:11:27 I get it. In terms of the court in sort of

1:11:29 like convicting someone, I can fully understand maybe saying

1:11:32 let's leave that one alone 'cause we can't get as much on

1:11:34 it. But you would as a police

1:11:36 officer, you'd have to be saying, really, let's look at

1:11:38 this, we've got 4 bodies, not not one.

1:11:40 Yeah. But even like, looking at the

1:11:42 circumstances in the lead up to his disappearance, you've got to

1:11:44 like take something from that. I completely agree.

1:11:47 I can just, I can, I can understand it from a legal

1:11:49 stance going too much, too much, you know, there's too much area

1:11:52 of grey there that we could get stuck.

1:11:54 Yeah, like, yeah, I can understand it in that sense.

1:11:57 But in terms of investigative thing, Yep, yes, link it and put

1:12:02 it in the pile of the same. They all fit together to me.

1:12:05 Yes, I fully agree with you. But that's not what happened

1:12:08 here, no. And I, I will come back again, I

1:12:11 reckon next week about why not? Why was that?

1:12:14 Where are we being the case? Where are we at?

1:12:16 Because I'm, I'm not, I'm not a trained detective as.

1:12:20 Much as we'd like to feel we are.

1:12:23 Yeah, and I feel like that's fairly obvious.

1:12:24 Yeah, I, I fully agree with you. I fully, fully agree.

1:12:28 So let's just recap a little bit.

1:12:30 We've got a pattern forming, yes, we've got young male

1:12:33 victims. There's signs of a very

1:12:37 controlled, deliberate, deliberate action.

1:12:42 Yes, that is evident with honestly with all of.

1:12:46 Them. All of them, yeah.

1:12:48 The planning's there, the remote body disposal is there, the fact

1:12:52 they're not buried is there. Drugs in the system.

1:12:55 In the. System.

1:12:56 System. All of it.

1:12:57 The fact that they're kidnapped off the side of a Rd.

1:13:00 Transported to a second location, they're all being

1:13:02 picked up off of 1 location, taken to another.

1:13:05 Yeah, the sexual abuse, extreme torture.

1:13:09 Tick tick. They're all being linked.

1:13:11 Same. Ticked.

1:13:13 Yeah, and they're all leading towards the family.

1:13:18 Bodies being washed, redressed. Yeah, all of it.

1:13:23 So we're going to come back next week, guys.

1:13:25 We're going to leave it here for for this week.

1:13:27 Yeah, we're going to come back next week and talk a lot more

1:13:31 about who they are. Yeah, who the Primo person is or

1:13:37 who we think the Primo person is.

1:13:39 We've got one more victim that we'll come to that sort of is

1:13:42 the. Turning point.

1:13:42 The turning point? Absolutely.

1:13:44 So please, please, please join us again next week for the

1:13:49 conclusion of this episode. Thank you for joining us this

1:13:51 week. We really, really appreciate it.

1:13:53 We hope everyone had a wonderful Easter.

1:13:56 Yes, how Whatever that looks like for you.

1:13:58 I know we've had Passover as well.

1:14:01 Yeah. So there's, you know, been a lot

1:14:03 of celebrations going on. However you do this this time of

1:14:06 the year great star in a bit late but have.

1:14:08 Orthodox Easter. Started all that, yet?

1:14:09 I think it's. Well, by the time this comes

1:14:11 out, Orthodox Easter will happen so.

1:14:13 Yes. You know what to however you

1:14:15 celebrate, we wish you nothing but the best.

1:14:18 Absolutely. All right, stay tuned next week

1:14:21 for Part 2 of the family murders in Adelaide.

1:14:25 Stay curious, crime besties. Bye.