Episode 82 - Carly Ryan: Australia's first Catfishing Murder

0:15 Welcome to Crime Besties for another episode.

0:17 How are you going, Meg? Limping along, that's all.

0:20 Yeah, Yeah. How are we doing?

0:22 Well, I have had to use a lot of under eye concealer today, and

0:26 I'm not normally a concealer gal, but I barely slept last

0:30 night. I just think it was a combo of

0:32 like this perimenopause shit. Yeah, I was hot and then just I

0:37 couldn't get to sleep. And then I woke up at 3:00 in

0:40 the morning, which seems to be my standard at this time these

0:42 days. Yeah.

0:44 And then I was just kind of drifting off back to sleep and

0:46 my youngest had a nightmare and came in and we.

0:49 Spent the night for it. I literally, yeah, I had the

0:51 same. Oh yeah.

0:53 No, I don't know what that's about, but he was like, I'm

0:56 really scared. I'm like, hop in.

0:58 Yeah. And then of course, when he hops

1:00 in, the dog thinks that it's per opportunity to also hop in, and

1:04 the bed's just not big enough for.

1:05 Four of us, no. So I just didn't really get back

1:08 to sleep after that. So and then normally I'm a make

1:12 your lunch boxes the night before kind of a gal, is it?

1:15 Always the way that if that sort of shit goes on, that's when you

1:17 don't do the free plan. I felt like I.

1:20 Had a bit of a reprieve today because today is the kids are

1:26 celebrating Harmony Day at school Yes, and it's a sushi

1:29 lunch day at. Least your kids eat sushi well.

1:32 One of them is very new to sushi, yes, but I was like, oh,

1:34 so I don't have to make sandwiches and you know, the the

1:37 fiddly stuff. Yeah, it's just.

1:38 Chucking it to make it in the morning and it'd be fine, but

1:40 then I was like, it's like a zombie making their lunch boxes

1:44 this morning. And I'm pretty sure Oliver threw

1:45 in things into his lunch box that I wouldn't normally allow,

1:49 but he took advantage. Of my yeah, he took.

1:50 Advantage, advantage of my the state that I was in.

1:55 So yeah, I look, I just feel so. Tired.

2:00 I'm here for it yeah, I'm with you.

2:01 I'm with you yeah, yeah. I felt like my kids were never

2:03 gonna go to bed last night Like it's like one of those like just

2:05 every. You know, they do the whole like

2:07 they get up every time and like. Oh, but I need to tell you this

2:09 and oh, I've forgotten my tummy hurts and.

2:11 Nothing more important happens than after bedtime.

2:14 Yeah, No. No story is as urgent as a story

2:17 that needs to be told after they're meant to have lights

2:19 out. Oh.

2:19 Exactly. I mean, because we had stuff on

2:21 last night that were can't get home till late as it was that it

2:23 was already like pushing it, pushing it that I'm like, I just

2:26 need you to keep moving to get to bed and stuff.

2:28 And it was like, Oh my God, it's 9:30 and we're still not in bed

2:32 like. Oh, can we?

2:32 Yeah, that's 9:30 is disgusting. That's a hard no no.

2:35 I just. Need that, you know I need an

2:38 hour at least of just kids asleep, watch my crap on TV,

2:42 whatever, just to decompress. Didn't get it last night.

2:45 No that. Makes a difference too 'cause

2:47 you haven't had your sort of wind down routine.

2:49 No, so I didn't. I couldn't wind down.

2:51 Yeah, it's awful. Yeah, horrible.

2:53 Yeah. Peter and I last night were

2:55 watching a documentary about Fukushima, which was like the

2:59 nuclear power plant reactor that melted down.

3:02 And it was, it was really interesting.

3:04 But I was like falling asleep up with, I'm like, Peter, we're

3:06 gonna have to watch this. Yeah, you know a 19.

3:08 Minute documentary in two parts because I cannot, I actually

3:12 can't keep my eyes open. Yeah, but you wanna watch it.

3:15 It wasn't like, you know, I'll just fall asleep here 'cause

3:16 this shit, like, it's interesting, really interesting.

3:18 Yeah. But another thing that I've been

3:21 watching this week that I actually fully binged one day, I

3:25 can't even remember when it was, was the new, it's on Netflix.

3:29 It's called Dynasty, the Murdochs.

3:31 So it is so interesting. It's like real life Succession.

3:36 Did you watch Succession? No, it's one of those shows

3:40 where I'm like, oh, I think I could really get into that, but

3:42 I need like time and you need. Time and it's you know, it's

3:46 it's over now obviously, but just can't even remember how

3:49 many season 6. Maybe it's all about TV.

3:51 Yeah, I fucking loved Succession, watching the sort of

3:55 the real life, you know, the Murdoch's.

3:56 Actually, I didn't know a lot of that story.

3:59 A drama as in like or is it or It's not a documentary.

4:01 Yeah, it's. Really, really good.

4:03 Highly, highly recommend. Yeah, definitely.

4:05 Yep, jot that one down. No, I think on my list this

4:09 weekend is real house, not real House.

4:11 Secret Lives of Mormon Wives season 4.

4:13 It's come out so. Have you heard about SO with

4:16 Secret Lives? Apparently.

4:18 I don't actually know. I haven't really looked into it,

4:20 but Taylor, Yeah, So. All over it.

4:24 What's his name? Dakota.

4:25 Dakota. I was like, I know it's a real

4:27 fucked name, what is that? But Dakota, like, did he, what

4:34 happened? Did he abuse her or something?

4:36 OK, it's it's a whole thing that no, like he's saying that she

4:40 did right and he's saying he's got video evidence of.

4:44 It OK but he hasn't released it. No.

4:47 He's a fuck. They are.

4:50 They've actually halted production on season 5 due to

4:52 this and it must be massive. There must be something to it.

4:55 She's also got The Bachelorette that's about that's about to.

4:58 Start. She's doing all the press for

4:59 that at the moment. Oh, I'm keen to work.

5:02 I'm gonna have to look into this more 'cause I've only seen real

5:05 little tidbits. Of it on TikTok, yeah, it's a

5:09 it's a whole thing. OK yeah, very interesting.

5:12 So like she's claiming he has, but he's claiming she has and

5:17 it's a it's a whole thing. And there's sort of the, the

5:20 vibe is that there's got to be something in this, otherwise

5:22 they wouldn't have stopped production.

5:24 Oh, for sure. So because they're actually

5:25 filming season 5 at the moment and they've, they've stopped, of

5:28 course, production. So yeah.

5:30 But she she is still doing press for Bachelorette, which they

5:33 were sort of like thoughts of like they might pull her from

5:35 all that and sort of go, let's just keep it expensive.

5:39 Yes. So when they've put so much

5:41 money into her her series for Bachelorette.

5:43 Yeah. But I mean, I've already

5:45 spoilers are out of that episode now because of everything.

5:48 So you already know who I won't do it for anyone else.

5:50 Yeah. Yeah.

5:51 But you can find out totally. It's all out there, it's

5:54 everywhere. Yeah.

5:55 So it's huge. Yeah, yeah, I'm here for all of

5:59 the Salt Lake City shit. Same.

6:01 I'm not here for domestic violence, but no, I'm here for

6:03 the the drama of the. I just can't wait for the new

6:05 season of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City to come out

6:08 either. Well, that's true.

6:09 That's. Bring it on, bring it on because

6:13 I'm finding I don't know about you, but I love Beverly Hills,

6:17 but it's a bit boring. Like there's no one.

6:19 I mean, Amanda's a fuck wit. I can't stand her.

6:23 I cannot. But she's not in next season.

6:25 They've. Already Yeah, the hat to scrap

6:27 her she's a fuck wit she's a. Dick Yeah, so she's not in it,

6:31 but then who's gonna be? Who's gonna give the But we need

6:35 people arguing like to read. No, because actually you're

6:39 right. Sutton seems to have one season

6:41 where she's like totally fine, and then the next season where

6:44 she's wild. So next season, she's due for a

6:46 Wild. Season, so maybe that'll come,

6:47 yeah. Maybe, maybe they can.

6:49 We need. Erica to fire back up too.

6:50 I want her. But I just love Erica.

6:53 I just love her. For her I really I.

6:55 Love her, she's the best, yeah. Yeah, I noticed that on our

7:02 Apple podcasting charts. Guess who we're just slightly

7:09 above on in the charts. Who?

7:12 So Real Housewives Orange County.

7:14 Yeah. So Emily and her husband have a

7:17 podcast. Yes.

7:18 True crime podcast. We're just smidge above them on

7:22 Are You Fucking Kidding me podcast charts?

7:24 No. Are you actually screenshot and

7:25 everything? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

7:28 I am. Blown like we're in the same

7:30 like if you're above. Have you listened to their

7:32 podcast? Yes, I have actually, a couple

7:33 of times, Yeah. Yeah.

7:34 Are you into it? It's a different vibe.

7:38 Dynamic, the two of them, actually, I actually find them

7:40 as a married couple kind of funny.

7:41 Like I love, I love their banter between them.

7:45 To me, actually, they remind me of you and Peter, the way they

7:47 speak to it. Oh, really?

7:51 It's love, like love, hate kind of vibe, like it's just all, you

7:54 know, that you can take digs from each other and, you know,

7:57 very open, honest kind of conversation they have.

7:59 I really like it. It's I think that's how a

8:02 married couple should be. Yeah.

8:03 It's great. So yeah, I do like that side of

8:05 it, yeah. I feel like it's got a bit of an

8:09 AI research vibe to me. Yes, she reads off the script,

8:14 which, you know, a lot of people do whatever, but yeah, yeah.

8:17 But then I do like I prefer it when they get to their banter of

8:20 them. Me too.

8:20 Like can't believe we're above them.

8:23 Oh geez, man, that's kicking gold cash on our back.

8:27 And I just love it because it just kind of, it just felt

8:29 right, you know, us being in the same category as a Real

8:31 Housewife. Totally.

8:33 It fits. It absolutely fits.

8:35 All right, shout outs for today. So.

8:37 Many. Heaps.

8:38 We've got a couple of new patrons, Jade Walmsley and

8:42 Joanne Illingworth. I was actually chatting back and

8:44 forth with Joanne on the socials yeah and she was like I'm gonna

8:47 sign up tonight. Then like literally 5 minutes

8:49 later the Ding came up and saying that she'd joined the

8:52 Patreon. So thank you guys for doing it

8:54 is so appreciated. And we're actually recording a

8:57 Patreon only episode after this. Get that out.

9:02 It'll be out by the time you get this one.

9:04 Yeah, that's it. So.

9:05 You'll be able to, yeah, really, really invest in all of that.

9:09 And then we've got a couple of wines have been bought for

9:12 specifically, yes. Obviously I love everyone

9:14 defines it like please don't buy coffee.

9:16 Yeah, don't be stupid. We're not.

9:18 Don't worry, We're not Rebecca Devine.

9:20 She said to buy a bottle of wine on her.

9:22 Thank you Rebecca and Cynthia. Helen, she said she found us a

9:26 month ago. Her comment was actually really

9:29 funny. She said she found us a month

9:31 ago and at the start she found our banter like out before the

9:34 case banter like I think maybe a bit annoying.

9:38 I don't that's not the word what?

9:39 And but then now she's like really here for it now that she

9:42 reckons she's listened to our whole back catalog now and like,

9:45 I actually really appreciate. That yeah, she's worked us out.

9:48 Yeah, yeah, we are really irritating to begin with.

9:50 And then you have to screw on you.

9:52 It's a. Slow Burn takes 80 episodes

9:55 before you really get into it. But anyway, thank you very much

9:59 to Cynthia. We then also have had a really

10:03 lovely message from a listener named Tara Bethune who sent us a

10:07 really lovely message about one of our recent episodes.

10:09 So thank you very, very much for that.

10:10 We love the engagement. We really try to reply to

10:14 everyone where we can. So if we've got the time,

10:17 sometimes we don't get. Some everything busier.

10:19 Than others yeah but please keep keep D Ming us or you know

10:23 popping comments on our socials that also helps to for other

10:28 people to find us if you make comments on our podcast episodes

10:32 in whatever play you're listening to the support is very

10:35 very much very much. Yes, we love it.

10:37 That's it. So today we are talking about

10:41 the murder of Carly Ryan. Now, when you and I were

10:46 discussing, we were sort of discussing this week's episode

10:50 or even just scheduling in these episodes.

10:53 I think this to me was one that was really, really important

10:56 that we do. Yeah.

10:57 And I think we're in our Patreon episode today.

11:00 We're probably going to talk more about why we choose the the

11:03 topics that we choose and all of that kind of thing.

11:05 Yeah. But this one, I think to both of

11:07 us really resonated. And in researching this, I

11:10 actually found myself as a parent of preteens, this really

11:17 hit home to me big time. And if not for the work of

11:20 Carly's mum and lots of other legislative changes that have

11:25 come from this and then from lots of other similar

11:28 incidences, I think we're trying as best as we can as a society

11:33 to make the Internet a safer place for our young people.

11:36 It will never be safe. It is always something that as a

11:40 parent we need to be across and be on top of.

11:43 But you never know, you know, kids have access in lots of

11:48 different places and in places that you're not necessarily

11:50 around. And I think this, I think, is

11:53 going to be for us and for our generation, the most difficult

11:56 part of parenting. I could not agree more.

11:59 It terrifies me. And then, but I think these

12:02 stories are so important to keep in forefront of people's minds

12:07 for that exact reason that you can't get LAX on this stuff.

12:11 You've got to be on top of it all the time with your kids with

12:14 using the Internet. Do you know what worries me?

12:17 I feel like at the moment I've got a lot of control.

12:20 My kids don't have like school laptops or anything like that.

12:23 They are at home whenever they're on a screen, they're not

12:26 allowed to be in their bedrooms. They need to be in front of us.

12:29 We have all of the parental controls on, so we limit what

12:32 they're allowed to access. It worries me when we get that

12:34 next step and my eldest is going to high school next year out.

12:37 Yeah, he will have a school laptop.

12:40 I know kids can get around using VPNs and get around all of the

12:44 restrictions that school places on things.

12:46 And our kids aren't silly like kids aren't silly.

12:49 I mean, in that sense, they know more than we are.

12:51 They're digital natives. We are not.

12:52 I mean, you and I are both in the same generation, so don't

12:56 bullshit. I mean, you're.

12:57 Actually a bit old. They're a bit older than me,

12:59 but. We follow this category where we

13:02 fell into that bracket of we are, we've lived a digital world

13:05 and a non digital world and that stuff.

13:06 But that has put us into the bracket of understanding good

13:10 portion of it and being able to get some of it, but not to the

13:13 level of what they have their understanding of this stuff and

13:15 they're well not even understanding of it.

13:17 Actually, that's the wrong way to put it.

13:18 They don't have an understanding of how much control they have

13:20 compared to like us not having that.

13:22 So they're actually so naive in their accessibility.

13:27 And I think that's where there's a real issue with that of I

13:30 mean, as every teenager, I think that they know everything that's

13:33 biologically how they meant to their program to be.

13:36 And it's part of them becoming adults that they know how to do

13:38 things and they dismiss their parents.

13:40 So it's about them moving on from the nest and back in, you

13:43 know, cave times that it's still there in them to do that.

13:46 But we still, we have to somehow as parents, navigate that when

13:49 they're not mature enough and have enough knowledge to deal

13:52 with it really. And I know as a parent, I'm

13:54 trying to consume a lot of content myself on how to protect

13:57 them and what to do. I think there's a lot of really,

14:00 really good resources out there. But then I also don't know what

14:05 I don't know. And so, like, you can be as

14:07 informed as you want to be, but with these kinds of things, that

14:10 changes all the time. Things are constantly like that.

14:14 The goal posts are shifting in terms all the time.

14:16 Yeah. So it's, it's tough.

14:18 But it's also then you can know all you want to know and you can

14:21 try and give that on to your kids.

14:23 Then there's the people who don't do that in their families

14:26 that then influence other kids because they're allowed to do

14:29 things because that parent isn't as aware as you are or for

14:33 whatever reason. That then concerns me as well.

14:36 So it's what they're being exposed to beyond the home, as

14:39 you're saying. For sure.

14:40 I mean, had a bit of a funny moment the other night, like on

14:43 this, that my mum was home with the boys.

14:45 Now my mum, as we said, we tell her she celebrated her 80th

14:47 birthday recently. So, you know, technology is not

14:49 her Forte. And my eldest was doing homework

14:52 on the computer and the next thing he was calling his younger

14:55 brother over to and they were giggling their heads off at

14:57 whatever they're doing. Mum was like, you know, all of a

14:59 sudden, like, oh, I better go just check what's good idea.

15:02 And she's like, I don't know what I'm looking at, like

15:04 whether or not they're doing the right thing or not.

15:06 She and all she said to me was, look, I had a look to see what

15:08 they were doing. It wasn't porn, so I figured

15:13 they were fine. I love it.

15:19 Can you imagine them sitting at the kitchen table watching porn?

15:21 Anyone going? Hey brother, come.

15:23 Over here. Check them out.

15:25 With grandma sitting like at the kitchen table or something.

15:30 That's just learning how to do animation or something.

15:33 That was totally fine and innocent.

15:34 But yeah, I loved mom. She's like, look, it wasn't

15:36 porn. But see, this is the thing,

15:39 right? And I think generationally

15:40 that's probably what they think is the worst.

15:42 This is here online and it is. Not it is not Is it actually

15:46 isn't. That's fucking scary.

15:47 That's scary. I don't care.

15:49 Yeah. I mean, the whole porn thing

15:51 scares me too, because I mean, that's a whole different

15:53 conversation. But yeah, it's it's a scary

15:57 world out there. Yeah.

15:59 Yeah, and this case really hits home as to just why it's so

16:02 scary. And yes, what we can, I don't

16:05 know, hopefully keep in the forefront of our minds as we

16:08 navigate these years with our preteens and.

16:11 Teams and. Yep, Yep.

16:14 So Carly Ryan contextually. So this happened in 2007.

16:21 Now, the Internet at the time was, I'm going to say, still

16:27 newish when I say that, I think people assumed that the people

16:32 they were talking to on the Internet were the people who

16:35 they were saying. They were totally.

16:37 You know, there was a lot of chat rooms were really big and

16:43 meeting people online was a really big thing.

16:46 There wasn't such a thing. We didn't have video calls or

16:48 anything like that. Some people had webcams, but it

16:51 wasn't really a thing at that time.

16:54 Myspace was massive and I guess it was the start of early social

16:58 media, but the the. I think Facebook was part of

17:01 this, but it was, I mean, it was early days of Facebook was like,

17:03 I think so Facebook was sort of 2000 and five, 2006 it came out.

17:06 I think so. And so this is still early days

17:08 of some people weren't on it yet, you know, like, whereas I

17:10 mean, these days, well, it's not the not the young ones, but

17:14 everyone, everyone's on Facebook, calling Instagram.

17:16 Yeah. You know, snap anyone?

17:18 Yeah, Myspace was the bigger one of the the two at the time.

17:21 Myspace was so big at the time that in 2006 or 2005 was it it

17:26 actually had more traffic than Google.

17:29 Crazy. Did you have a Myspace account?

17:31 Oh yeah, what was your username? No, I didn't have 10.

17:33 OK, no mine. Mine was Emma in ounces OZ.

17:43 What a dog. So I would have been, I think I

17:45 was in year 12. Yeah, Myspace kind of became a

17:48 thing. Yeah, It wasn't until I

17:50 connected that even Myspace, I don't know.

17:52 I don't know how I missed Myspace when I'm too old.

17:54 I don't know, Definitely. Even Facebook, when it launched,

17:57 I was like, oh, I'm not doing that stuff.

17:58 I was the same with Facebook. Yeah, it was I didn't I didn't

18:01 have a Facebook page for ages. And I actually still these days

18:05 I get a pop up every year and it was one of my friends going oh,

18:09 you've finally joined Facebook. I.

18:10 Literally got the same, yes, literally the same because I

18:13 think I held out for a good 12 months.

18:14 People hassling me going you need to be on Facebook.

18:16 Yeah, yeah. And so, but my Myspace was yeah,

18:20 it wasn't. I didn't twigger that that was

18:22 the what was being used. But my younger brother had gone

18:24 overseas and he had set up a Myspace for his travels.

18:29 OK, so we could all check out his photos and stuff like that.

18:32 But I don't remember actually having a Myspace account even.

18:35 I must have to be able to access that.

18:37 Yeah, you would. Have.

18:37 Yeah, but I'm so I must have. But it wasn't something you

18:39 obviously used a lot. No, not at all.

18:42 It wasn't until many years later that I that my younger brother

18:44 Andrew was like, yeah, that was Myspace that I put that on.

18:47 I was like, oh, like, OK. I thought it was just a website.

18:51 Yeah, At the time as well, like parents thought that the kids,

18:55 you know, what they had to worry about in terms of in terms of

18:58 stranger danger was like, you know, being followed home from

19:01 school by a stranger in a white. Van big time, yeah.

19:05 What they what parents didn't understand yet was that they

19:08 actually needed to be afraid of the people who.

19:12 Could enter your home. Virtually computer, yeah.

19:15 And the stranger danger that cut that came with that.

19:18 I think that was just absolutely not on anyone's radar, no.

19:22 Because I think parents back in our generation thought if you

19:24 were at home, you were safe. Yes, But we now know that's not

19:28 necessarily true. Actually, not true at all.

19:30 Yeah. And so that makes the world a

19:32 pretty scary place when you're not even safe in your own home.

19:35 Oh God, yeah. For, I mean, for lots of

19:37 different reasons, yeah, for this.

19:39 For this, like digitally, yes. You know, especially.

19:42 Yeah. So who was Carly?

19:44 She was born on the 31st of January in 1992.

19:49 She lived in Sterling in the Adelaide Hills, which is a

19:52 beautiful, beautiful town, sort of a wine region of the Adelaide

19:57 Hills. Just an absolutely stunning

19:59 place, but tiny population of 2 1/2 thousand people was.

20:04 There's like I, I actually Google Maps the Main Street

20:07 because I was listening to a podcast that was talking about

20:10 it and I'm like, oh, I want to see what it actually looks like.

20:13 I would love to go there. Yeah, it looks really lovely,

20:15 like lots of cafes and lovely shops.

20:18 And it's I think autumn is the time that a lot of people visit

20:22 there because the trees are starting to turn red and just

20:25 absolutely really love the wine region.

20:29 Don't we all I. Mean we need a road trip, peeps.

20:32 Yeah. Actually, maybe we should.

20:36 I've always wanted to go to that cube winery in SA.

20:40 What? Yeah, I'll.

20:42 I'll yes, yes, send me some up on my S Australian wineries.

20:45 I have to admit WA, I'm on Moore New Zealand.

20:49 Oh. Yeah.

20:50 All right. We'll, we'll talk about this

20:51 offline. So Carly lived at home with her

20:56 mum, Sonia, Sonia Ryan. Sonia was only 20 years old when

21:00 she had Carly and I have to say that they looked so similar.

21:05 They could absolutely be sisters.

21:07 Apparently that's what they got all the time.

21:08 Sonia looks very, very good for her age.

21:11 Yes she is. They give me Gilmore Girls

21:14 vibes. Total Gilmore Girls vibes, Yeah.

21:16 You can sort of see they grew up together in a way.

21:19 So I mean, a 20 year old raising a child, that's a massive thing.

21:24 But she didn't really, really a good job with Carly.

21:26 And they were so, so close. Yes, so much so that Carly would

21:33 tell her mom everything. There was nothing hidden between

21:36 them, which is unusual. Because teenage girls, yeah, at

21:40 this point. Carly was 15 years old.

21:43 Yeah. And I think that's the time that

21:45 you kind of maybe would pull away from your mum a little bit

21:48 and. Because you know they suck.

21:49 Because they tell you you don't do things.

21:50 Yeah, and not to wear your hair like that or not to do this or

21:54 not to do that and not to be friends with that person or

21:56 whatever, but the their relationship never kind of got

22:00 to that point that they were very open with one another.

22:03 They. Disagreed on things, but like

22:05 they were, they still connected back, you know?

22:07 And I think there was a real mutual respect that went both

22:10 ways. I think is lovely.

22:12 And I would love to have that with my I can achieve that with

22:15 my, me too, me too. So Carly was a very creative

22:20 girl. She was sensitive, she was quite

22:23 bright. She loved music and this

22:25 alternative culture. When I emo.

22:28 Yeah. Did you ever go through an emo

22:29 phase? Not I wouldn't, not to the

22:31 extent where I would say I was emo, but kind of on the on the

22:34 on the fringe, you know what I mean?

22:36 Like hey did. You dye your hair black?

22:38 No, no, I dyed my hair black. I was never emo.

22:41 No. Right.

22:42 But I did have a phase where I dyed my hair black.

22:44 And I look back at photos of me now with my hair dyed black, and

22:47 I'm like, fuck, you look so pale.

22:48 You look dead. Yeah, you actually look dead.

22:52 What were you thinking? That I loved it at the time.

22:54 Absolutely. Left my hair jet black.

22:56 I definitely got into like sort of the music of that and the,

22:59 you know, that side of things and like it was intrigued by it.

23:03 But I wouldn't have said that I was.

23:04 I was emo. Yeah, yeah, we had.

23:06 We certainly had kids at our school who?

23:08 Are emo, definitely, and they were like subculture,

23:11 definitely. And again, generally the person

23:14 who was friends with everyone sort of stuff at school that

23:16 everyone had their groups, but I would talk to everyone but the

23:19 emo crowd. I quite enjoyed them, they were

23:21 good. People and they liked listening

23:23 to music and all of that sort of stuff.

23:25 Even though Karly identified with that sort of emo

23:28 subculture, she actually also wore really colourful outfits.

23:31 She wore a lot of band T-shirts. Yeah, she had the darker hair

23:35 and all of that kind of dark makeup, the really heavy

23:38 eyeliner. And the kind of a I've moved

23:40 that into that. Yeah, OK, yeah, Yeah.

23:44 But and she was, I guess she was almost more punk in the way she

23:47 dressed. Like she would wear chains and

23:50 sometimes she'd wear tutus and, you know, things like that.

23:52 Like she was actually really quite cool.

23:54 Very cool. She was an incredibly active

23:57 Myspace user, so. Her whole friendship group work.

24:01 That's right. She socialized with her friends

24:04 on there. And these are friends she knew

24:05 through school and through and through other extracurricular

24:08 activities. And this is where I think the

24:11 web starts, right? So she knew all these people

24:14 that she was interacting with on Myspace.

24:17 Those people knew people who introduced her to that sort of

24:20 next level out. So she then doesn't know those

24:24 people, but she knows them through a friend of a friend or

24:27 something like that. And so it gets.

24:29 Some of these were legit, like, you know, like, as in, like, you

24:30 know, you've got a cousin or, you know, a friend from your

24:33 sports that you play on the weekend that that person doesn't

24:35 know, but, you know, that they know them.

24:37 Like. Yeah.

24:38 And so the web continues from there, Like, yeah.

24:40 So this is where it gets used to people's advantage, I guess, of

24:43 that. Yeah, that people can slot in

24:46 very easily. I guess in that sense that you

24:48 know someone knows me and it gets lost as to how.

24:52 Yeah, that's very true. Yeah.

24:54 One of Carly's really good friends had met a boy on Myspace

24:58 who she knew, again, through a friend of a friend.

25:00 Yeah. And they had started a

25:02 relationship, and they'd taken that relationship from the

25:05 online space into the physical world.

25:07 Yeah. And it was going really well.

25:09 They were, like, going out all the time and socializing with

25:13 one another. And they were into the same

25:15 things. And, you know, they were

25:17 involved in the same sort of chat rooms and all of that kind

25:19 of stuff. And Carly saw this and was like,

25:23 oh, that's, you know, really lovely.

25:25 Like that's what can happen. IRL, as the kids would say, she

25:28 could see it in real life, these two getting along like together

25:32 in real life as well as. Online so she could see, online

25:36 so she could see the translation from meeting someone that way.

25:39 That's right in how a positively it.

25:41 Could go. Yeah, into a real world

25:43 experience. Yes.

25:44 She also used a a website calledvampirefreaks.com.

25:49 Yeah, apparently that was pretty up there with Myspace at the

25:51 time. I've never heard of it myself,

25:52 but obviously it was a bit more in that emo culture.

25:55 Yeah. And I think the Vampire Freaks

25:57 was more, yeah, I think you're right, was more about the music

26:00 scene and that kind of thing that she was really into.

26:02 So she had a very significant online presence.

26:07 Yeah. And her mum knew about this.

26:09 Her mum knew that she was in these chat rooms.

26:13 I look, I think thought as we discussed before, that she was

26:17 safe because she was at home. She's not going out.

26:20 Well, there was open communication between them about

26:22 what was happening on the line of who she was talking to.

26:25 There wasn't anything being hidden.

26:26 So I can see from Sonia's point of view that she was like, yeah,

26:30 she's on these chat rooms. And I know she, she's talking to

26:32 that there's friends of hers from school in there, too, and

26:35 that this is what teenagers now do, that she was comfortable

26:38 with it because it wasn't like Carly was hidden away in her

26:40 bedroom doing things that she didn't know about.

26:42 That's it. Yeah.

26:43 It was around so early. I think it was early 2000 and

26:47 six, 2005. Oh, was it 2000?

26:50 It was as early as that. Yeah.

26:51 Sorry. Mid 2005.

26:52 Right. Oh, yeah, because it was about

26:54 18 months, wasn't it, that they'd known each other?

26:56 Yeah. So Carly started talking to

27:00 Sonia about this boy that she'd met named Brandon Kane.

27:04 Now they had met again. It was kind of through a friend

27:08 of A. Friend when I was her best

27:09 friend, actually. Who was it?

27:10 Yeah. So this Brandon Kane actually

27:12 been speaking to her and they've connected and, like, we're

27:15 getting along. But for whatever reason, this

27:18 Brandon Kane saw that she was friends with this Carly and that

27:23 they were all in the same group chats and things like that.

27:25 And he asked for Carly's e-mail address, and they wanted to

27:29 connect with her. But so because she, this best

27:32 friend, had been communicating with Brandon for quite some time

27:34 already, Carly was quite open to that, that, you know, this is

27:38 someone that her best friend knew, OK was being introduced to

27:41 her all via online platforms being, you know, but same as,

27:44 like, I guess if a friend said, you know, like, come meet us for

27:47 coffee, you know, meet my friend.

27:48 It's just, I mean, if you put it into that context, it's like,

27:50 yeah. Well, you know, you know, that's

27:51 nothing. Yeah.

27:52 It's just a way of introducing each other, you know, before

27:55 Buddy Tinders and things have been involved, I guess.

27:57 Yeah. Yeah.

27:58 So Brandon was born and raised, raised in Texas and he was an 18

28:03 year old musician. He lived in Melbourne.

28:05 So for the context in terms of distance, Melbourne, about an 8

28:10 hour drive from Adelaide and in a different state.

28:14 Yeah. So he was saying that he was

28:15 living in Melbourne. He liked everything she liked

28:20 and they really hit it off. They had a lot in common.

28:23 They were talking about lots and lots of different things.

28:26 He. Was quite successful in his

28:27 music and was like sort of doing some little bit of touring and

28:30 things. Well, he.

28:31 Said that he'd gone to Paris for.

28:34 Was that like a music gig or? Something I believe so, yeah.

28:37 So she that was incredibly impressive to her as a 15 year

28:40 old. And it got to the point where

28:43 they were communicating so frequently and their

28:48 relationship was developing. And it came to the point where I

28:53 think Carly definitely developed an infatuation with Brandon and

28:57 it went both ways. I mean, he was just as

29:00 infatuated with her. And so they essentially started

29:04 online dating exclusively. They and they were communicating

29:08 beyond the chat rooms. They were communicating over the

29:11 phone. So there was phone conversations

29:13 as well as chat room stuff. So yeah, it, it really grew into

29:18 a relationship from Carly's perspective for sure that they

29:22 were, they were in a relationship.

29:24 There is a. Constant contact.

29:26 Now you can have a look at. I mean, we can't actually see it

29:29 anymore, but Carly's online social media pages were covered

29:33 in messages from Brandon and lots of lovely things that were

29:37 written about her. Yeah.

29:39 And it actually went both ways. She did the same on his social

29:42 media profiles and. And yeah, it was just, it

29:46 appeared to be young love. Yeah, young.

29:51 Yeah, just that the infatuation was there.

29:54 Yeah, that went on that relationship building like that,

29:58 as we said, went on for 18 months.

30:00 So this is coming up for her 15th birthday and Brandon would

30:06 love to be there for her birthday and celebrate it with

30:08 her, but for some reason he can't.

30:10 He had he was actually going to Texas.

30:12 That's right to visit. A family that he had in Texas.

30:15 Yeah, but his dad, who Carly had also been communicating with on

30:20 this platform at a point he was introduced.

30:22 I'm, you know, and Carly was, you know, found that really

30:24 great because she knew she felt like she was being involved in a

30:27 family, not just Brandon. It was, you know, he was, she'd

30:29 been introduced to. I mean, it's like anyone wants

30:31 to introduce to their partner's parents.

30:33 You know, that's kind of the next level of, you know,

30:35 approval of the relationship and definitely.

30:38 So that's. And Kylie didn't have a dad in

30:39 her life, whereas Brandon was actually the opposite in that he

30:44 had a dad but not mum. Yeah, in his life.

30:46 So I guess they probably connected with things like that

30:48 as well. So she was introduced to this.

30:50 Shane, Shane Kane. Shane Kane.

30:53 I know, I say that. I know.

30:55 Shane, Kane, Shane Kane Terrace. OK.

30:58 So, yeah, Shane had spoken to her online on these platforms,

31:01 had also spoken to her on the phone as well.

31:04 So she had known him for a little bit in that sense.

31:08 So what Brandon had said to her was, I can't be there for your

31:11 15th birthday, which really sucks.

31:12 You know, that's awful. But it just so happens my dad,

31:15 who works for a security company and has been told by Carly that

31:19 he'd already told Carly that he was.

31:21 He can. He travels with bands and

31:23 things, and he represents his. So does the security with the

31:26 company. SAS soldier.

31:28 Yeah. So he's, you know, Army military

31:30 kind of background and now does security a really well known

31:34 bands and he was going to be travelling through the area.

31:38 Maybe he could pop in. At least we had to give her a

31:40 gifts and things for her birthday and pass on from

31:43 Brandon his, you know, birthday wishes.

31:46 So this is taken to Sonia, Carly's mom, to say, you know,

31:51 can Shane come and do this, which Sonia immediately was.

31:54 I don't know about that. I'm not having some stranger in

31:57 my home. They spoke on the phone, though,

31:59 Sonia and Shane, they did have a conversation on the phone.

32:02 So she had I've spoken to him and she said at the time he

32:05 appeared to be a normal dad in terms of the conversation they

32:09 had. And she sort of found that it

32:11 was lovely that they would get to know each other a little bit

32:14 as well if their two kids are dating and this is fine.

32:17 So she ended up agreeing to meet up with Shane in the Main St. in

32:22 in Sterling so that they could meet out of the home because

32:25 that just felt a bit not right. Good on you, Sonia.

32:28 Excellent. Lovely.

32:30 So she did. She went and met on the day of

32:33 Carly's birthday party in the morning I believe it was.

32:36 She went and met up with Shane in the Main Street and they got

32:40 talking and it was lovely. She said they got a lunch he had

32:44 with him ID that from the security company that he worked

32:47 with so she could prove that it was him he had a.

32:50 Security T-shirt on a polo T-shirt with the with the logo.

32:55 Company logo was all. Checking out, you know, he was

32:58 who he said he was. Yeah, she said that physically

33:00 he didn't look like what she thought he was going to look

33:03 like. Yeah, so he was quite tubby,

33:05 like he had a big belly and his teeth were crooked and he just

33:09 looked a bit not what she was expecting from a few things that

33:13 he told her, like the fact that he was this ex SAS soldier and

33:16 he was insecurity. It just didn't.

33:18 She said that that didn't really check out for her.

33:21 But then she's like, well, you know what it is what it is like

33:24 everything else kind of checked for her.

33:26 He was personable. They got along OK, and Carly

33:33 really, really, really wanted Sonia to like him.

33:37 Yeah, so she was wanting to, I mean, I get it, wanting to make

33:41 her kid happy as well, you know, And that's like, it's when you

33:44 knew how important Brandon was to Carly at this this point and

33:48 was really, you know, wanting to make sure that Carly felt

33:51 supported in these things too. Because, you know, your

33:53 daughter's potentially dating someone who's a little bit older

33:56 than her and all these sorts of things that you want to be

33:58 involved. You don't want her to shut you

34:00 out at some point. So it's a real balancing act of

34:02 protect. But support, you know, kind of I

34:05 can fully understand that. Yeah, me too.

34:07 This next bit I kind of find a little.

34:09 Bit odd. Me too.

34:10 But but this is where I think that level of brooming, I don't

34:15 know what that what was spoken about specifically to get to

34:18 this point. But in the conversation, Shane

34:20 mentioned how he had nowhere to stay in in Adelaide where he

34:23 was, where they were. So while he was in town.

34:26 So Sonia said to him after this conversation of meet each other

34:29 in the town. Well, why don't you come along

34:31 to the party and you can stay the night at our place that you

34:33 know you can stay, OK. That that I would never do that,

34:39 No. But, and as I said, I don't

34:41 wanna judge it. I'm not judging her.

34:43 I don't know what how he managed to do.

34:46 That I feel like you and I probably given the breadth of

34:51 our experience in terms of what we research as well and those of

34:53 us who are interested in true, true crime, like everyone

34:56 listening to this, we probably think about things in a bit of a

35:00 different way to the standard general population.

35:04 And so no shade on Carly. So yeah, no shade on Sonia

35:07 whatsoever. No, I think she was trying to

35:11 make the best of a situation that she was placed in.

35:15 So basically, so Shane, Shane came then came over to Carly and

35:22 Sonya's house. Carly was yeah Carly was having

35:24 a 15th birthday party. She had a group of girlfriends

35:27 and a couple of boys as well. So one of them being her

35:31 ex-boyfriend and they were just hanging out as teenagers do, and

35:36 interest, Well, actually, first of all, the gifts.

35:39 That were. Bought.

35:41 I really I never felt could work find this out or whether or not

35:45 Sonya knew what these gifts were.

35:47 I have OK at the time or not? No, I don't believe.

35:50 And I don't believe she knew, because you couldn't have.

35:53 You couldn't have the gifts that were given to Carly.

35:58 Suppose Brandon. Brandon, but given by Shane.

36:02 Lingerie and a nurse's costume. What the fuck?

36:10 What that gross? I'm sorry genuinely, if an 18

36:17 year old was giving that gift to a 15 year old.

36:20 Even that's wrong. I just what?

36:24 Yeah, what? Well, he would have been 19 by

36:26 this point, right? Because when they met, he was

36:28 18. True, true that.

36:29 So that's even, it's even worse. Oh, absolutely disgusting.

36:34 But basically that night at the party, several friends of Sonya

36:38 of sorry of Carly's had reported after the fact.

36:43 Because you don't know what you don't know.

36:44 In the time that he was really creepy, Shane was really creepy.

36:49 He just, the things he was saying, the way he was acting

36:53 towards Carly was really off. When she was talking to her

36:55 ex-boyfriend at one stage, you know, he got really like, shitty

37:00 with Carly for doing that. He got Carly to kiss one of her

37:03 female friends in front of him. Like, it's very gross.

37:07 Like really gross behaviour as a 15 year old.

37:11 I don't know what Carly was thinking.

37:16 I, I don't know, like she. Well, we kind of know in that

37:19 they did have a conversation after all this that she didn't

37:22 feel comfortable either. Yeah, yeah, but she still did

37:26 it. I think she, well, that was

37:28 because she was. 15. She was 15 and so infatuated

37:31 with Brandon. So we also know that this night,

37:36 Shane actually propositioned Carly for sex.

37:39 He said to her that Brandon wouldn't mind because we're

37:43 keeping it in the family. He unbuckled her pants and

37:46 lifted up her top and touched her inappropriately before

37:51 propositioning her for sex. As if she wasn't going to feel

37:53 uncomfortably in her bedroom enough.

37:55 Anyway, he actually then ended up sleeping the night in her

38:00 bedroom. The next morning, Sonia was sort

38:04 of checking on Carly and making sure she, you know, she was OK

38:08 and found Shane on Carly's bed. Now apparently he was on top of

38:13 the covers and Carly was under the covers and.

38:15 Clothing was all. Clothing was all on, but I mean

38:18 that's so inappropriate, so fucked it's not even funny.

38:21 So of course Sonia's like get the fuck out of my house.

38:24 You are no longer welcome here. Carly was devastated because she

38:29 felt as though it was. Going to be over between her

38:32 and. Bran, that's right.

38:33 It would really impact their relationship.

38:35 And so she was really, really, really upset.

38:39 And like, this is the thing where I kind of, yeah, Carly was

38:42 in agreeance with her mum. She did not like what Shane had

38:46 done. She didn't.

38:47 She's expressed that to her mum and she understood why her mum

38:50 had thrown him out, but at the same time she was angry because

38:54 it was going to impact her relationship with Brandon.

38:56 So in all of this, and I can understand that from the 15 year

38:59 olds perspective entirely, that, you know, I don't care about his

39:03 daddy, his dad's awful, but he, I love him, you know, kind of

39:06 thing. I can just imagine her being so

39:09 distraught by that. Yeah.

39:11 And pulled in so many directions.

39:12 Oh, for sure. Carly did have as you we were

39:16 talking about before she did have contact with Shane.

39:20 So she she actually cut that off and she was only then

39:22 communicating with Brandon. So I guess in her mind, she's

39:27 put that to bed, you know, she's put that aside.

39:30 She has like there's communication between her and

39:32 Brandon where she's like, I really hope this means you don't

39:34 think anything less of me, but I can't, you know, I can't

39:38 communicate with your dad, but you know, I love you so much.

39:41 And, and he reciprocated. He was like, I love you too.

39:44 I'm really sorry that happened. But in Sonia's eyes, she

39:48 believed that it stopped completely.

39:50 So she removed, she took Carly's phone, you know, and all these

39:52 sorts of things, everything. So she believed that the

39:55 communication was not happening between Brandon or Shane at this

39:59 point. Was this at the point where

40:02 Sonia sent an e-mail to Shane? So in this e-mail she basically

40:07 said you need to cease all communication.

40:10 Your behaviour was absolutely abhorrent.

40:13 These are the things that you've done.

40:15 And like she, I think she just wanted to get it off her chest

40:18 and also put an like, make it finite like this.

40:20 Is it like cutting everything off?

40:22 We're done. She she threatened.

40:24 Him with that, she would go to the police.

40:26 She said if you make contact again, I will contact the

40:29 police. Yes.

40:30 And he basically came back with an e-mail that was like, bitch,

40:32 please, you know? Literally, literally.

40:36 It started with Bitch. Please.

40:37 Yeah. Like who the fuck do you think

40:39 you are? Oh, you know, if we go to court

40:42 over this, I'm the decorated SAS soldier and you're just a bitch,

40:45 Yes. Yeah, that was the exact wording

40:47 in the e-mail. I was like that.

40:48 Oh my God, what a sack. What a piece of shit.

40:51 Absolute fucking piece of shit. Awful.

40:54 Because what? Yeah.

40:56 He's the way he wrote that e-mail was like this entitlement

40:58 of like to her daughter like and like.

41:00 How dare you interfere with me getting at getting your

41:03 daughter? Now this goes to show the type

41:09 of person this Shane is. He is a malignant narcissist

41:14 through and through. He was obsessed and enraged by

41:18 this rejection and it started manifesting these really ill

41:23 thoughts towards the entire situation.

41:26 So what he did, he started to plan what would end up being

41:31 Carly's demise. This is what he wanted.

41:34 Completely premeditated. It was designed to impact Carly

41:40 in the worst possible way and impact Carly's family,

41:43 especially Sonia, in the worst possible way.

41:45 Because he'd been caught, he'd been found out.

41:49 They knew exactly who he was. And he and Shane couldn't stand

41:54 that. He couldn't have it.

41:55 No. So in February of 2007 contact

42:01 was re established via Brandon with Carly and he got to the

42:07 point where he convinced her to meet up with him without telling

42:11 Sonia. Dangerous.

42:13 Oh yeah. So fucking dangerous.

42:16 The the way he kind of did that was to say that like, obviously

42:19 to get to Adelaide him and his dad were going to have to come

42:23 and obviously he knew that. Even though he was like 19 and

42:26 could have gone by himself, but whatever, yeah.

42:29 Carly was like well cuz it she she didn't really want to speak

42:32 to Shane. I honestly believe that.

42:33 I don't think she wanted to have interactions with Shane, but it

42:36 was the only way she was going to get to Brandon was if Shane

42:39 could. Come she still at this point

42:40 hadn't met face to. Face yes.

42:42 So this was her opportunity to do that which that then

42:46 manipulated her to things to tell her mom not will not tell

42:49 her mom that she was going to meet up with either of them

42:52 because she knew that her mom would say no like that's not

42:55 going to happen. Yeah.

42:56 So what she did was she used something that she has done

42:59 many, many, many times. They her friends and that would

43:01 all meet in the city and they would stay at friends houses

43:05 overnight and quite regularly like, you know that she would

43:08 say to her mum, you know yeah, we're all gonna go into the

43:09 city. And they and her mum would, had

43:11 said that she would, they'd all meet there and they'd go to

43:13 these particular shops that they all liked to do.

43:15 And it was all, it was a thing, total thing.

43:17 Because in Sterling there wasn't much to do.

43:20 So I mean, I think the city was only like 40 minutes on train.

43:24 Yeah, like, it's not far. No.

43:25 So they could fairly safely in a big group, go and do that as

43:29 they would, and then they'd just pick someone's house to stay out

43:31 the night. Yeah, and they have a whole

43:33 weekend, you know, of catching up and doing the girl thing and

43:36 whatever they want to do, which, great.

43:38 We've all done that. All done it absolutely for sure

43:40 and especially at this age at that time I wouldn't even

43:43 question it as her mom really didn't until she had to like

43:47 yeah so the. So Carly gets on this train and

43:51 goes into the city and she to meet up with with Brandon and

43:54 this was on. The 18th of February in 2007.

43:57 Unfortunately, at that point, Carly doesn't return home and

44:00 so. Well, the first, the first that

44:03 Sonia actually knows of it is Sonia receives a phone call on

44:06 her mobile phone and it's from a person who has found Carly's

44:10 purse. And inside Carly's purse, she

44:12 actually had Sonia's phone number written down.

44:15 And so this person's rung up and going, oh, I've just found this

44:17 person. There's AID belonging to Carly.

44:20 Is this Carly? And anyway, so immediately Sonia

44:24 was like, oh, something's really, really wrong here

44:27 because they found the purse about 80 kilometres away from

44:32 Adelaide, where? It wasn't where she'd said she.

44:34 Was going to be That's right. It's not like she dropped her

44:36 purse in the city. And you could kind of explain

44:39 that away. Kind of could set in regardless

44:41 I think. But it was 80 kilometres from

44:43 where she from where Sonia thought Karlie was in Port

44:47 Elliot. Yeah.

44:48 So this that basically triggered Sonia into an absolute frenzy.

44:55 She rang all of Carly's friends. None of them said that they had

44:59 plans, that they'd seen Carly, or that they knew where she was

45:02 or who she was. Staying there, their place that

45:04 night, you know, like, no. One knew anything, they hadn't

45:06 planned anything for that particular weekend.

45:09 So immediately Sonia has done the right thing.

45:11 She has contacted the police and filed a missing person's report.

45:15 Good on her. She did the right thing and to

45:19 the police's credit, they have also taken this quite seriously

45:23 and fed it out to all of the channels that they need needed

45:27 to do that now. The next morning on the on the

45:29 19th of February in 2007, couple were walking, sorry.

45:33 A lady was going for a walk and she saw a body face down in a

45:38 body of water in Horseshoe Bay, which is in Port Elliot.

45:42 And she couldn't actually physically move this body.

45:45 So she's run to find somebody to help her and she found a

45:48 fisherman up the beach somewhere.

45:49 He's come and while he's dragging this girl's body out of

45:52 the water, the lady was calling 000 and getting an ambulance

45:57 out. There they performed CPR.

45:59 Yeah, so they did that. The ambulance came.

46:03 By the time the ambulance got there, they were able to

46:06 pronounce the the person deceased.

46:10 The police really quickly put together that this was likely

46:13 going to be Carly from the missing persons report in terms

46:17 of so she was actually wearing different clothes.

46:19 This body had different clothes on it to the to what Sonia

46:23 reported as being the last clothing that Karlie was

46:27 wearing, but it was the next day, so it's possible she

46:31 changed her clothes or very likely that she changed.

46:33 Her they found that she was dressed in these clothes, but it

46:36 was kind of like haphazardly dressed.

46:38 Yeah, so her tracksuit pants were on inside out her.

46:40 Bra was kind of half clipped. It wasn't completely clipped up.

46:43 It was like she. Wasn't wearing any underwear, no

46:45 underwear. We're actually found down the

46:47 beach a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

46:48 Whether she was redressed in other clothes, we actually don't

46:51 really know the answer to that. The ambulance officers, and I

46:55 believe later on then the coroner confirmed this, that

46:59 Carly had likely only died about 30 minutes before her body was

47:02 found. That hit me so hard when I heard

47:06 that. Yeah, they believe she'd likely

47:09 half an hour before she was found, she was alive.

47:11 When her autopsy was completed, her cause of death was put down

47:17 to drowning as a result of craniofacial trauma.

47:20 They found sand in her lungs. So what the coroner concluded

47:23 was that she was likely suffocated in the sand.

47:26 Like as in her head has been pushed into the sand, She's

47:29 inhaled some sand, She's then been beaten.

47:32 There were 19 separate injuries, about eight of those to her

47:35 head. Blunt force injuries, which they

47:37 believed at the time were probably caused from a fist.

47:40 Yep. Apparently her face was just

47:42 completely bloodied and bruised. That has knocked her out.

47:47 Her body's then been placed in the water and she's drowned in

47:51 that fairly shallow body of water.

47:55 It is just horrific. Absolutely horrific.

47:59 She'd also been raped and so that that was that was to be was

48:01 proven to that as well. So Yep.

48:04 Do we know? I couldn't find this.

48:06 Do we know whether she was raped before or after she was killed?

48:11 I assume it must have been before.

48:13 Well, whether or not they, the person who did that knew that, I

48:16 don't know. We don't know well.

48:18 Given that she only passed possibly 30 minutes.

48:21 She's dead. She was definitely alive, but

48:23 she was probably unconscious and potentially the perpetrator

48:27 wouldn't have known whether she was alive or dead.

48:29 Oh. That actually.

48:30 That actually. Makes.

48:30 Yeah, I think that's actually worse.

48:32 Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely disgusting.

48:35 Yeah. So the police are now starting

48:37 to investigate this murder. I mean, it's very, very clearly

48:41 a murder. Yes.

48:42 And what they found, they actually got again, you know,

48:46 the use of the media is often a double edged sword.

48:49 Yeah. But in this case, the media

48:50 really came through. So that day this went worldwide,

48:56 Carly's images were being shown from France, Italy, Yeah,

49:01 through Asia, other parts of Europe and all throughout

49:04 Australia. I remember seeing it myself, but

49:07 I don't I, I feel like the entire story didn't make its way

49:10 to Melbourne as much. Like kind of thing like it did

49:13 would have, but not extensively. Yeah, but I definitely remember

49:16 her photo and everything. And me too.

49:18 Yeah, it's, it's that photo. You look at it and you're like,

49:20 Oh yeah, I know, I remember it. And what that meant was, was

49:24 that quite a few people contacted Crime Stoppers and

49:29 reported that they'd seen different things.

49:31 So yeah, we had, which were then able to be confirmed by police

49:35 through CCTV footage. So we had they'd been to a

49:39 convenience store where Shane had bought cigarettes.

49:43 So she was seen with two men, right?

49:45 Yes. One older man, one younger man.

49:47 And then obviously Carly, they'd been to a convenience store,

49:51 bought cigarettes. They'd been, they'd asked about

49:53 going, where's a good place to get a drink around here, Which

49:56 is when somebody said there's a pub at Horseshoe Bay.

49:58 Yeah, it's called the Crown Hotel or something like that.

50:02 So they've gone there. There's CCTV footage of these

50:05 three people there. Then when they were on the beach

50:08 that night in Horseshoe Bay at around 839-3930, was it?

50:13 Yeah, sorry, PM. There were two locals who went

50:16 swimming and they saw a girl with these two men at Horseshoe

50:21 Bay. They, I think they left the Bay

50:24 at about 9:45 and those three people were still there.

50:28 And yeah, this is where the police are like backing things

50:31 up with CCTV and all of that kind of thing.

50:33 They were also seeing like the three of them were identified as

50:36 being using a pale blue car that was identified that was quite

50:39 distinctive. It was a Mitsubishi Shogun

50:43 Shogun and when I looked it up, it looks like a Pajero

50:45 basically, but it's a specific type of car and the colour of a

50:49 colour is really unique. The other thing that really

50:51 stood out, and I totally get this because this is my brain

50:54 does this too, is the number plate was Victorian, yes.

50:57 And so that really made the car stand out to a lot of passes by,

51:01 which was really, really helpful.

51:03 Very full. So we're now with the police.

51:06 They are combining all of this and it took them about 11 days

51:10 to put all of this together. They've obviously interviewed

51:13 Sonia as well, Sonia's told them.

51:15 About on their computer stuff, they've looked through Myspace

51:17 or Facebook, all that stuff as well at this.

51:20 Point because at this point they are keeping an open mind.

51:22 They don't know who's necessarily.

51:24 Done. This Sonia was.

51:25 She knew. Yep, she knew and she told them

51:27 all there was to tell about Shane and Brandon and and that

51:31 whole connection. So they were able to put all of

51:33 this together and they also then found that Shane or somebody who

51:39 had this particular car registered in their name found

51:42 the address wasn't. Registered in Shanes name.

51:44 Though it wasn't Meg, who was, whose name was it registered in?

51:48 Registered to a man by the name of Gary Francis Newman.

51:53 And was Gary Francis Newman and Shane Kane the same person by

51:57 any chance? Yeah, but Shane Kane and Gary

52:01 Francis Newman were many other identities too. 202 hundred

52:06 online identities, including Brandon Kane.

52:09 So very freaking interesting. This guy.

52:12 Oh, he's an absolute yes. So they walked in to arrest him

52:20 at his house in Victoria. Yeah, he was sitting in his at

52:24 his computer. He was logged onto his computer

52:27 as Brandon Kane. He was actually actively

52:30 chatting with a 14 year old girl in WA at the time.

52:32 In WA at the time. Oh yeah.

52:35 Because you've just gone and murdered 1.

52:36 So I guess you need to know. Find your next one.

52:38 He had multitudes of girls on the hook.

52:41 As we said, he had over 200 online profiles and

52:45 personalities. The police found this.

52:47 I can't this, I can't even. But he had a notebook where he

52:51 would record all of the details so that he could keep his lies

52:54 straight. This.

52:55 Is it I mean that actually that side of this and it's

52:57 psychological of like taking away these the how much a piece

53:00 of shitty is I just you know, the how a brain must work to be

53:04 able to maintain the lies to get these people.

53:06 Like there's I don't like the word I'm gonna use here.

53:09 What an incredible skill set to have and which if only you could

53:13 use that in a good way instead of this fucked up way.

53:17 I'm trying to say it really carefully because I I have no

53:19 respect for him, but that's incredible to be able to

53:23 maintain all of that information for someone to on the other end

53:26 of it kind of go, wait, you told me this and now you're telling

53:29 me that because by no means I don't think there's people on

53:32 the other end of these calls and these, these chats are stupid

53:34 that you get sucked in. They are being sucked in

53:36 genuinely by someone who is fucking good at this.

53:39 Yeah. Yeah, the disgusting thing was

53:42 the way he'd written about him, the people in this notebook.

53:45 So Carly was called the Adelaide slut in the notebook, and then

53:49 he wrote against her name. Resting peace.

53:53 Like not even rest in peace. He wrote like he's just a

53:56 fucking idiot. Like he's, you know, he's

53:58 obviously got a certain amount of smarts, but.

54:00 Not really. Not really.

54:01 Exactly. You know what I mean.

54:02 Yes, he's actually total dead shit in so many other, I mean,

54:06 in so many other ways, yes. What the notebook showed was

54:09 that, Carly, he obviously wasn't his only victim.

54:11 There were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of victims of a

54:16 time. And then in that present moment

54:18 as well. Yeah.

54:19 So he's obviously Gary Francis Newman has been arrested for the

54:25 murder of Carly. Yeah, he initially denies that.

54:31 He's like, absolutely not. He denies it for.

54:34 Denies extensively. A long time, yeah.

54:36 What they know as well, what the police ascertain, is that the

54:40 other man that was with him at the time was his son. 17 year

54:44 old son who'd. Only just been returned to his

54:47 custody a month before, yeah. So he had two sons.

54:52 We had one son living with him who was older, and he then

54:56 acquired his younger son after being in foster care for many

55:00 years. Somehow he'd regained custody of

55:03 him at the age of 17. So they had not had a whole lot

55:06 to do with each other and didn't know each other that well, I'm

55:09 assuming. So he had moved back in with

55:12 him. And yeah, he had approached the

55:16 oldest son at one stage to try and get him to help him hook

55:20 these girls in because obviously there were phone calls

55:22 happening, like he needed a voice and a potentially a face

55:26 to use to gain access to these girls.

55:30 The oldest son said fuck no, he didn't get involved.

55:34 The younger one unfortunately said yes to his dad and did get

55:38 involved. So he was the voice on the phone

55:41 when he would call Carly. He was the face when he would do

55:44 online chats and things at times.

55:46 Most of the time it was he. Wasn't the face of the online?

55:49 Chat No, sorry, no SO. Gary, we'll call.

55:55 Him, yeah. Gary had actually downloaded

55:57 footage of just random this random boy.

56:00 The bands and things. Sorry.

56:02 Yeah. And he had.

56:02 Cut together footage so it looked like it was a webcam.

56:06 Yeah. He.

56:07 I mean, he was clever with the way he did it.

56:08 Absolutely. Yeah.

56:09 Yeah. Because I think that son wasn't

56:11 in his custody at the time. He didn't have.

56:13 Like didn't have him to use until a certain point.

56:16 Until this point where he's like, I actually need someone

56:19 who's gonna have to pretend to be Brandon to lure Carly.

56:22 Yes. And so that when Carly gets to

56:24 us, because I assume, like, we we know he went there.

56:27 Yeah. Wanting to murder her.

56:29 Yeah, obviously rape was on his mind as well, so he needed Carly

56:34 to feel comfortable enough to go with them somewhere so that he

56:37 could perpetrate what he was planning on perpetrating.

56:40 Absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, look, this 17

56:45 year old, he's also arrested. He unfortunately the police

56:50 didn't kind of do their job here in that he was questioned and he

56:54 admitted to all of what his involvement was to the point of

56:59 also raping Carly. Now I say that allegedly because

57:04 at the time when they had that interview with him, he was not

57:07 represented legally. So and he was underage.

57:10 Therefore, therefore that could not be used in his court case.

57:16 So he was, he was acquitted of all his in part of this, but

57:24 there is unfortunately no knowledge like Sonia, her mum

57:28 unfortunately knows what his participation in this was and it

57:32 was extensive. And at 17, how much consent can

57:37 he give to being a part of it in that, yes, there was a father,

57:41 adult, you know, authority figure leading him.

57:47 How much of that did he really want to participate in how much

57:49 like consent he gave to all? That is a broad question.

57:54 Age. Yeah.

57:55 I I mean, I've heard Sonia speak on her thoughts on this and she

57:59 has very firm belief that he should have had had a

58:02 conviction. I agree with and I do tend to

58:04 lean that way, Yes. But I just want to be careful

58:06 legally that he was not convicted.

58:09 He actually due to not having representation in that initial

58:13 interview. Now, I believe this person, this

58:17 young man then went on to perpetrate absolutely severe

58:23 sexual abuse of girls later in his life.

58:28 So I, I think in, I mean, he was in juvenile detention awaiting

58:34 this trial and awaiting the acquittal.

58:36 But I just think if the system had have worked the way that

58:39 Sonia wanted it to and the way I personally think it should have,

58:43 then he wouldn't have been able to harm these other girls.

58:48 There was no rehabilitation given to him.

58:51 No. He was just acquitted and put

58:52 back out into society. Yeah.

58:54 Having participated in and witnessed what he had, I think

58:58 that's dangerous. That's that's and it's really

59:01 irresponsible of the system. 100 percent, 100%, yeah.

59:08 So Gary, though, we just should go back a little bit of what

59:10 sort of person? Yeah, just in terms of him as

59:12 well, we always say these people are not, they don't appear and

59:17 just do this stuff at the drop of a hat.

59:18 There's always prior stuff that's gone on.

59:22 He was married I believe at a point and it was the his

59:26 stepdaughter has come out and said that he molested her.

59:32 His ex-wife has come forward as well saying that yes, that's

59:36 what occurred. This guy has absolute rap sheet

59:40 in terms of past of that. He was not convicted of it at

59:43 the time, but it was definitely came out in the trial that

59:46 that's what his past was. So there's prior to this, he's

59:51 not just popped out of nowhere to raping people, you know,

59:54 because there's one thing, not that I'm I'm saying this is OK,

59:56 but there's one thing to catfish people online, you know,

59:59 misrepresent yourself and you know, but then there's a whole

1:00:02 nother level of what what's going on here as well in terms

1:00:05 of rape and murder that that was not, that was not uncommon for

1:00:09 him in that respect. Yeah.

1:00:11 It's, it's just absolutely horrific.

1:00:13 Yeah, absolutely horrific. The thing that sealed Gary's

1:00:17 fate, so his defence basically, was that he didn't do it, that

1:00:22 the only reason all of that stuff was on his computer was

1:00:25 because he was researching for a book that he was writing.

1:00:28 He's he got up on the stand and said this shit.

1:00:30 This isn't just like, yeah, his lawyer actually wanted to be

1:00:33 removed from his twice. Yeah, and, and they're like, no,

1:00:37 because it would have led to a mistrial and they would have had

1:00:39 to have started again. It would cost the taxpayer too

1:00:41 much money. And I mean, this was an open and

1:00:43 shut case. That CCTV footage of him with

1:00:45 her like an hour before she died, Like, fuck off.

1:00:47 Yeah. So.

1:00:48 But the thing that actually sealed his fate was because so

1:00:51 once the CCTV footage came in, he was like, OK, like he kind of

1:00:56 had. To have CCTV.

1:00:58 But he's like, but I didn't intend to kill her.

1:01:00 Yeah, right. So not premeditate.

1:01:02 But premeditated, like they found the police found the

1:01:05 fingertip of a latex glove that had his fingerprint on the

1:01:08 inside of it. So they're like, this was 100%

1:01:10 premeditated. You brought gloves.

1:01:12 So that was that sealed his fate.

1:01:13 That absolutely sealed his fate. And he was sentenced to life

1:01:16 imprisonment with a 29 year non parole period.

1:01:19 He's actually eligible for parole in 2036.

1:01:21 That's too soon. Yes and he'll only well only be

1:01:24 like 80 yeah. I don't feel like that's no.

1:01:26 I really hope we I feel like, well, look, I mean, he might not

1:01:28 get parole it we're not saying he's definitely gonna get out

1:01:31 there and I would hope that he won't, but hopefully just.

1:01:33 Die. Surely.

1:01:34 Really, really painful. Death.

1:01:36 I might get to him in jail. Justice Trish Kelly, who

1:01:38 presided over the case, she said Gary Newman deserves a life

1:01:42 behind bars for his grossly perverted plan to deceive,

1:01:46 seduce and murder Carly during the during the trial as well.

1:01:49 If something wasn't going his way, he'd fake having a seizure.

1:01:52 Yes, a full interesting personality.

1:01:54 Like, I mean, Oh my God. She also said in the trial you

1:01:57 were sexually obsessed with Miss Ryan when you could not get your

1:02:00 own way, you prepared to and did kill her.

1:02:03 Yeah. She also stated that a child who

1:02:05 fell in love with the idea of the handsome Brandon Kane, the

1:02:08 real man, was an overweight, balding, middle-aged pedophile.

1:02:11 Totally nailed it. Drop Mike girl.

1:02:14 Yep. Look, the legacy that has come

1:02:19 from this is something I think we should talk about now because

1:02:21 yes, Sonia, to her absolute credit, has taken the most

1:02:26 tragic and awful thing that any parent should ever have to

1:02:29 endure and has really turned it into something where she can

1:02:34 get, there's some positive, there's education, there's like

1:02:38 honouring Carly's legacy. And I think for Sonia, it's that

1:02:41 she, she didn't want Carly to die for no reason.

1:02:45 This has been her her reason. I suppose.

1:02:48 Well, it's her reason to go on, isn't it?

1:02:49 I mean. This case has changed Australian

1:02:52 law, or for the better. Yes, Previous to this, lying

1:02:55 about your age to a child online wasn't illegal.

1:02:58 Now that Carly's Law has been enacted, that is now a legal, a

1:03:02 criminal offence. Even if you have no criminal

1:03:05 intent from lying to them about your age, that there is.

1:03:09 It doesn't matter what your intent is behind lying, it is

1:03:13 still criminal to do that. Which is a good thing.

1:03:16 So what that means is that police are actually then now

1:03:19 able to enact on people who are perpetrating these crimes online

1:03:24 before they enter the physical space because that's what

1:03:28 happened here. Like online, OK, the damage was

1:03:31 one thing, but then once obviously it came when they were

1:03:34 meeting face to face. That's where things really.

1:03:36 Because what we should have said, I didn't.

1:03:37 We didn't say this at the time. So when when that incident

1:03:40 happened about the birthday, Sonia did go to the police, like

1:03:43 even though she threatened that to, to Shane at the time, she

1:03:46 did go to the police and the police actually said to her,

1:03:48 look, there is nothing we can do, you know?

1:03:51 So because there's not actual physical evidence of all these

1:03:54 sorts of things. However, if this law was in

1:03:57 place, they may have been able to get him on that at that

1:04:00 point. They would have been able to

1:04:01 arrest him before any of this. So that's where this new law

1:04:05 really would have assisted in this situation and has and will

1:04:09 continue to assist these cases. In the future, so much to Sonia

1:04:12 for that. Yes, she also founded the Carly

1:04:16 Ryan Foundation. The mission of the foundation is

1:04:19 to educate children about online grooming to support families.

1:04:23 And also they they have a push and a pretty big voice in terms

1:04:26 of legislation changes to make this stuff safer for our for our

1:04:31 children. She does a lot of speaking

1:04:33 events. She speaks with schools and

1:04:36 universities, with law enforcement, governments.

1:04:38 She's a real advocate in this space for, for our kids.

1:04:43 One of her quotes is that Carly's legacy was going to be

1:04:45 more than her ending, so she wanted not to be remembered for

1:04:51 the brutal end of her life, but for like her legacy to be this

1:04:55 to be a positive change for for kids all around Australia and

1:04:59 even internationally. Now I know the Foundation has

1:05:02 supported several governments around the world to make

1:05:04 significant legislative changes to benefit children in those

1:05:09 countries as. Well, well, The thing is,

1:05:10 because of how the Internet works, it needs to be

1:05:13 international. Yeah, because it does cross all

1:05:16 those borders in terms of that. I mean, someone can be

1:05:20 international Interstate and be grooming someone.

1:05:23 So just because you don't live in the same country doesn't mean

1:05:27 they can't impact them. There are plenty of cases that

1:05:29 are still continuing, you know, through this where they can, by

1:05:34 grooming someone online, they can murder someone in fact, by

1:05:38 creating that person to commit suicide.

1:05:41 We know there have been cases of that happening.

1:05:43 Absolutely this happens and it's it happens regularly.

1:05:47 So these laws have got to help internationally, not just I

1:05:49 mean, us as Australia or Victoria Royal SA having laws

1:05:53 doesn't isn't enough. No.

1:05:55 So I mean Sonia is amazing how she continues this work to, you

1:05:59 know, assist in that realm. She's also being a big advocate

1:06:03 and a big proponent of of the social media ban to under 16.

1:06:07 That's been a big part of her advocacy work of late.

1:06:10 I think a lot more needs to be done in this space, But there's

1:06:13 it's not perfect. It's a step, but it's, you know,

1:06:16 there's a lot of work that still needs to be done to really

1:06:18 cement that in. But at least I feel like there's

1:06:21 recognition there, the fact that we're taking these steps.

1:06:25 Is it perfect? No.

1:06:27 Will it ever be perfect? Probably not.

1:06:29 But it's just something, if nothing else, that's made

1:06:32 parents more aware. Possibly, yeah.

1:06:34 And yeah, we need to be so on top of this.

1:06:39 I feel like from a perspective of parents, there's parents who

1:06:44 have tons of knowledge and in that knowledge you understand

1:06:47 still that you can't control all of it.

1:06:50 And then there's. Parents.

1:06:50 That's part of it, isn't it? Yeah, Part of that is knowing

1:06:53 that you don't know everything and you can't control

1:06:55 everything. No, but then there's an element

1:06:57 of parents that, you know, do the whole like, I can't

1:07:00 understand this. I can't control it anyway, kind

1:07:04 of go for it because what can I do will be Yeah, and I I can

1:07:08 understand that, but I feel like personally I want to know as

1:07:13 much as I possibly can to have at least.

1:07:15 Some control of it. It's our responsibility as

1:07:17 parents. Just find out about it and know

1:07:19 as much as we can. I feel like there's our kids as

1:07:21 much as we can. Too many people who don't engage

1:07:24 in this space with naivety of like, look, that's for them to

1:07:28 sort out kind of thing. And it'll be fine because I

1:07:31 mean, they're all equally going to be in the same danger as each

1:07:34 other online, whether or not the parent knows anything or not.

1:07:37 And I, I can't have it. I want every parent to engage

1:07:42 with this and have knowledge. Yeah, because what goes on in

1:07:46 that household with no knowledge and my household with the amount

1:07:50 of knowledge I can comprehend, I feel like I'm then being

1:07:53 unsupported because my kids are still interacting with that

1:07:56 child too. Yeah, that's it.

1:07:57 It's really hard. It is really, really complex.

1:08:00 Yeah. I think, you know, for those who

1:08:03 maybe don't really understand it, we've got to look at it

1:08:05 like, you know, when we were kids, we had that stranger

1:08:07 danger kind of talk and we'd have, we need to be having

1:08:11 conversations like that. Yeah, but about Internet and

1:08:13 about online. Absolutely.

1:08:15 I am so honest with my kids around.

1:08:18 Why I'm scared? Because I want them to have fear

1:08:21 of it. Yeah, because if they don't have

1:08:22 the fear of it, then they don't. They don't protect then I don't

1:08:26 understand why I'm. I'm being a bitch, you know?

1:08:29 I say that to them all the time. I'm not saying this to be a

1:08:31 bitch. I'm just saying this because I'm

1:08:32 trying to protect. You.

1:08:33 I'm also a bitch. Yeah, well, remember, better the

1:08:36 bitch you know than the one you don't.

1:08:37 But I'm very honest about the fact of like, you know, that

1:08:39 there are people on the other end of those those screens that

1:08:44 are not your friend and they are not there to be nice to you.

1:08:48 But that that's very true. What do you think made Carly so

1:08:52 vulnerable to this? Well, I think the fact that, I

1:08:54 mean, this is such, it was such a new space at the time, yeah,

1:08:57 but we can't overlook that fact 'cause this is still equally as

1:08:59 as dangerous. Now we know more.

1:09:01 Yeah, so, but at the time, definitely that was an element

1:09:03 of it. But she's a 15 year old girl. 14

1:09:06 year old girl I mean. It's age.

1:09:08 It was her first serious relationship.

1:09:10 She was in love. You know, that's a massive,

1:09:13 massive thing. There was that emotional

1:09:14 control, that emotional connection that she had with

1:09:17 this person. And, and yeah, I think she was

1:09:19 just almost ripe for it. Absolutely.

1:09:22 Well, this is the thing. Gary made a character that was

1:09:27 literally targeting the Carly's of the world, and he was picking

1:09:32 who he was. He targeted first.

1:09:33 The best friend realized for whatever reason she wasn't into

1:09:36 it. It didn't quite match with her.

1:09:39 So we tried the next one. You know, he he somehow

1:09:42 infiltrated a group of girls of Carly's friends who were similar

1:09:47 ilk, you know, music, emo, you know, the things that he had

1:09:51 already built Brandon's profile around that he was like, right,

1:09:55 one of them will be the right one, you know, and he.

1:09:58 It's disgusting how he then had all of those other girls that he

1:10:01 was manipulating. Created other profiles.

1:10:05 Profiles and other personalities to.

1:10:07 Pull them in. Just so manipulative.

1:10:09 Absolutely. So, so manipulative.

1:10:11 It's it's, I mean, look, and he also created beyond those, the

1:10:14 character of Brandon. Obviously there was linked to

1:10:16 that was then the father being Shane, but there was also

1:10:20 another one that was Brandon's brother.

1:10:22 Yeah. And so it made it safe.

1:10:24 Yeah. You know, this was a real person

1:10:25 because he's got these other connections on his profile of he

1:10:28 had like his friends and he was profiling.

1:10:31 He didn't just profile the character that was going to lure

1:10:35 or whoever. It was literally invented entire

1:10:38 an entire web of people around that to give it reality, which

1:10:43 just blows my mind. That side of it really blows my

1:10:45 mind as to how you can keep track of all that for that.

1:10:49 That's Brandon Profile and that's all the people around

1:10:51 him. But then there's Ex Profile and

1:10:54 there's all the people around him to get, you know, that type

1:10:56 of girl. Blows my mind.

1:10:59 Totally blows my mind. Totally.

1:11:00 Disgusting. Oh, totally.

1:11:02 It's just horrible. Yeah.

1:11:04 Horrible, horrible. Oh God, I think I look at this

1:11:07 situation. I think really aside look, aside

1:11:10 from inviting him to stay the night, Sonia did all the right

1:11:15 things. Yes, Sonia went and met him at a

1:11:18 public place, got a feel for it. He was presenting a certain

1:11:23 persona. I don't think we said this at

1:11:25 the time that it turned out that that that license, the identity

1:11:28 he had and the logo on his T-shirt were all.

1:11:31 Fake, but he was never in the SAS.

1:11:33 I mean, that's probably fairly. He went so extensively into

1:11:36 this. So so planned.

1:11:38 So planned, so planned. Yeah, it's disgusting.

1:11:43 Yeah. So Sonia did the right things,

1:11:45 You know, She did all the things that I think anyone would advise

1:11:49 you to do if that was the case. Yeah.

1:11:52 And yet it still ended up the way it ended up.

1:11:55 No. And then and even to the point

1:11:57 of like as much as Sonia had like banned Carly from talking

1:12:01 to Shane and Brandon and that her and Carly were talking about

1:12:05 that openly and she they had such a strong relationship that

1:12:13 she even couldn't get to her daughter in that final moment to

1:12:17 not let her go to visit. Brandon, because he was a master

1:12:21 manipulator. Absolutely.

1:12:23 He knew what he had to do to make sure Carly didn't tell

1:12:27 Sonia what was going on. Yeah, because he knew Sonia

1:12:31 would say no, you can't go. And to use that against a mother

1:12:35 and daughter, like, I just find that so sickening.

1:12:38 Like, that, you know, that at that age, they're going to push

1:12:41 boundaries on their parents. And I can use that.

1:12:44 Like, what? What can you do with a teenage

1:12:46 child to get them to understand that as a parent, you might know

1:12:50 better? And all you want is what's best

1:12:52 for them. You're not necessarily doing

1:12:54 things to punish them or to. Ruin their fun.

1:12:56 Ruin their lives. Yeah, always here to ruin their

1:12:58 lives. I mean, let's let's be under

1:13:00 the. Perhaps of parenting?

1:13:02 Probably think about it everyday.

1:13:03 How am I gonna ruin their lives? That's right.

1:13:06 Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah.

1:13:08 I think that kind of brings us to the end today.

1:13:10 If you want to know more about the Carly Ryan Foundation, the

1:13:12 website is really, really great. Yeah, and there's a lot of

1:13:15 information that on there. So just Google Carly Ryan

1:13:18 Foundation and the website will pop up.

1:13:21 There's some really important work going on there.

1:13:22 So, and it's certainly something that I've had a read over and

1:13:25 we'll be discussing with my kids.

1:13:27 I think that every teenager should be accessing that.

1:13:30 I don't I, I sort of feel like maybe it's more extensively

1:13:34 known in South Australia and where Sonia speaks and all that

1:13:36 sort of thing because it's where she's her hometown is.

1:13:38 But I feel like we need more of that here in Melbourne.

1:13:40 I'm not, I don't know. There's there, there are bits

1:13:42 and pieces that we have here, but I feel like genuine stories

1:13:46 first hand are what kids need to hear because sometimes it seems

1:13:49 too distant. That's not not, that's not me,

1:13:52 that's not what happens happened to me.

1:13:53 But just actually hear from Sonia and Hikaru's story makes

1:13:57 it real. Yep, I couldn't agree with you

1:13:59 more. All right, well, thank you

1:14:00 everybody for joining us for another episode.

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1:14:28 Stay curious. Crime besties.

1:14:30 Bye.