Episode 80 - The Murder of Stephanie Scott

0:16 Welcome back to Car and Besties. We are at episode 80. This is actually getting me. I Yeah, when I saw that I wrote down 80 this week for this episode. I'm like, Oh my God, 8080 we need to discuss our hundred soon. Oh yeah, guys, give us suggestions on what you want 100 to be that. I mean, that's what not even half a year away. No, I know. I thought the same thing. I'm like, oh, 20 episodes. That's a fair few. Yeah, but we'll be there before we know it if we don't start thinking about it. I. Know it's gonna have to be a massive one.

0:43 Yeah. Yeah. Let us know what you want us to do for 100. Yeah. We're gonna have to save a really special case for a hundred, I reckon. Yeah. Alright. Let us know what you want. Let us know what you want. How has your week been? Not as mental as last week, I'll say, 'cause last week was ridiculous, but this week has been, yeah, not far off. Not easing up just yet? No, it's just yeah, it's full on at the moment. I don't know. I need to in some parts of me I'm like, is it already the end of term? But we're only we're halfway and I'm like, I need more time.

1:15 So don't come fast enough to be the end. But at the same time I feel like I've done a full terms worth of work. Yeah, I, I, we were at basketball training last night and I was talking to a couple of the other mums and they were like, it feels like this term is going on forever. Like the kids are almost ready for a break already. Yeah. And we're only. Yeah, just over halfway through. And yeah, I actually I almost feel like it's it should be almost school holiday. Yeah, it hasn't helped the fact that like I think we're both sort of feel this little bit that our kids are at the level of their sport now where there's pre season training.

1:47 Yeah, that like I feel like it starts so soon that I'm not adjusted yet to that. There's that it starts this early. So I'm like, I feel like I'm ahead of. Where I should be, I get it, I totally get it. Last night Ollie had footy training and I was sitting out, like sitting out there watching him train and it was so nice. The weather was beautiful. It was like so rare for. Degrees, I know it's like 25° and sunny and like just a lovely, lovely evening. And a few parents were having a chat and it was really nice.

2:16 Yeah. And then I was thinking, you know, we are within another few months, we are going to be cursing the fact that we have to be out there in the freezing fold watching cars. Watching them instead in the. You know, with the windscreen wipers going because it's absolutely piercing down with rain. Yeah, but like water. Bags or the backseat when they come back to the car soaking wet and muddy, that's. It exactly all the towels, everything that you need to make the winter sports, you know, the winter outdoor sports, I don't know, easier in some ways, some way.

2:47 But what it what it reminded me of was one of the mums that are in Ollie's footy team last year. She was deadly serious about doing this, but I don't think she and I'm pretty sure she didn't end up doing it, but it was such a funny idea. You can buy these like enclosed igloo like structures where and they come with built in chairs and they're like a pop up tent thing and they've got little heaters in them. So you just get a battery pack. You can plug your battery pack into the heater and you're sitting in this like igloo with a Perspex, you know, like a plastic fogging up.

3:24 Oh my God, it'd be like Titanic the The Hand, but I'm like what a fucking great idea. Because totally the second. Holders, yeah. Oh, I'm sure there are if, I mean, if they've thought of heaters and seats, I'm sure there are drink holders in there for coffees, coffee. And I'm like, this is actually such an amazing idea because watching sport from the sideline when it's freezing cold and wet is duck. It's so yuck. Oh. Man, So yeah, maybe we need to invest in something like that to make it slightly more.

4:00 Pleasant, yes. I'm pretty sure you can pick them up at ALDI too when winter hits. Are you serious? I'm. Sure. I've seen something like that at ALDI, or it was when we were doing soccer season and I'm pretty sure there was one on there or something. That I oh, I'm gonna have to keep an eye out on the special buys. I do love an ALDI special buy. I'm always I always look Yep. And then you like I always go, I'll get there and they'll win on left. Although I have to say, ALDI, I bought a vacuum cleaner, a stick vac.

4:25 Mm, Hmm. I just wanna want 'cause I had a Dyson upstairs at my place that I love just having up there to whip over. Yeah, when I'd like, you know, little bits when I was up there, 'cause I'm not up there all the time, like so. Yeah. And I so, but my Dyson had completely died. It was total piss shit. Dyson overrated anyway. Controversial. No no, I hard agree. We've got a Dyson as well and I won't buy another. One, I wouldn't buy another one. So I was like not buying a Dyson, but I love having stick back up there.

4:47 Yeah, I already had one for 100 bucks. Oh, I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna fucking do it. See how it is? Yeah. Is way better than my Dyson. I'm gonna say this, this, this is next bit is controversial. It's better than my Shark. Yeah, Shark. It's damn good. I actually reckon that this ALDI one for 100 bucks did better than that upstairs. Amazing. So. Good so for 100 bucks. Does grease ever go upstairs? No, no. OK, 'cause I'm like, I wonder you. Have to fully coax him. Yeah, I can't have to push him up.

5:18 Yeah, I can imagine he wouldn't be a they always. Have to come down though, yeah. Too much 'cause I'm like, I wonder how have you tried it with dog hair? Yeah, so I I did, when I first put it together, I did downstairs just and like and went insane. And it did really well. That's where that was when I went. It's better than my shark because that's the whole thing. My shark is so heavy. Yeah. I don't like doing the stairs with it. Yep. So that was why I was like, I want like a stick upstairs that I can just do this.

5:43 It's more doing the actual physical stairs. Yeah, right with it because it's just, yeah, it's too bloody heavy. But it does a great job. But this thing does better. Amazing. I'm so blown away. Yeah, LD stick vac. If you see them, grab one. I might. Actually have to do that, yeah. I mean, because I don't use it consistently like it definitely my shark gets used like every like every every day. Yeah, pretty much as a minimum with the hair at the moment. So from the dog I mean, not just me. Although you're a contributing.

6:12 I am definitely a contributing factor and the long. Have you seen how much hair you've got? I've got like 4 hairs on my head. You've got like an absolute thick, thick mop. It's insane. This. Is this is my my perimenopause thinned out here? Oh fuck off, you can fuck right off I. Can actually get a hair tie around it now. So oh fuck off. No, it's fine. Meanwhile my ponytails like thin as anyway. God I. Hate how thick mine. It's just there's too much of it. I can't get rid of it. Take some of mine please.

6:43 Loving my 4th end out here that is for sure. The one positive to perimenopause. Negative for me, I don't need less hair, no. But I know everyone gets doesn't get what they want. No, you always, you always want what you don't have. We've got a, what do you call it, a robo vac that does vacuuming and mopping and that is amazing. I love that. But we don't. Piper doesn't shed really. So yeah, it's not AI. Don't know how it would go with pet hair. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not sure. Yeah, definitely not Grizz.

7:17 Hair. No, no, that's thicken. Yeah, there's so much of it. Yeah, yeah, all the Tufts. Oh God, this is it. They're the Tufts or the tumbleweeds. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Grizz. But to add to the pet scenario at the moment, Oh yeah, go on. We had our new frogs arrive last weekend. Oh yeah, What are their names? OK, I actually love this. Me too. So Brody got one and Mason got 3 because it was his birthday present at Mason's and Brody is renting a space for his frog in the enclosure and so he is named his single Marsh Frog Waffles.

7:56 Love it. So a little waffle waffle. Waffle waff. Now, is Kyle jealous of Waffle? No, OK, I wouldn't be either. Waffle is not the cutest of things. It's a weird looking. There is Kyle. No, no, I'm sorry. I'm giving Kyle credit here. Waffle is very odd looking, OK? And he's a marsh frog, so he kind of lives underground, so you don't really see him too often. OK. So then we have. Great pet. So then Mason has 2 brown tree frogs, OK, and also a marsh frog, right? And the three of them are called Kevin Stewart and Bob AKA the Minions love it.

8:41 Which is just so it's I'm constantly. So where's Kevin? What's Stewart up to? Fully buying into it. Oh, you have to funny. Oh, you have to. You have to the frogs themselves. Look, you know what? They're actually quite cute. I need to know if they're noisy. No, no. Well, no croaking. I think I've decided. We've got all free, all females. OK, there's been no croaking. Is there, is there such a thing as a frog sexer? You know how there's like chicken sexes and they they have to see if they're girls or boys and if they're boys they get, you know, and if they're girls, they can go and lay eggs.

9:14 Yeah, not that I'm aware of. And I don't know that I'll even Google search that because that'll. Imagine that coming up on your history.

9:23 Oh God, yeah, no, I don't. Know so you just you think you were just lucky enough to get girls. I reckon we might be at this stage, but also it's off season so we'll just wait and see. Maybe things will change. Oh geez, when we get into a different season, OK, I don't know. But at the moment, no, no croaking yet. OK. But the thing that does make noise is the fucking crickets. Where do you keep them? At the moment, well, like they're in a container, like containers and they, they just stay next to the the enclosure at the moment.

9:50 OK yeah, but that's. So we had a bit of a mishap. I, I let them, I said to them like the boys. I, I showed them what to do and I was doing OK with like, you know, getting the crickets. I did unfortunately make a mistake in the laundry the other day and when I was trying to get them back, 'cause you've got to coat them with calcium powder and that's the hardest bit anyway, trying to do that with them and I release but. How do you I don't understand how you get a cricket out of a container when they just jump?

10:20 Yeah. So yeah. OK, so these ones just did jump, and I had three of them escape into my laundry. Oh. For fuck's sake. So I managed to catch all three of them and get them back into the container. I need them. So then, so then from there I went, OK, we're gonna change how we do this. So now we do the we go. I open the container and then put it into the enclosure, take the lid off. And then if some jump out, they jump out. And I have with these giant tweezer things. And then you dip them in calcium powder and put them in the enclosure.

10:49 Well, they're still alive. Oh, yeah, yeah, they've got to be alive. And then put the lid back on and take it out. OK, So I was like, OK, this isn't that hard. I've done it a few times. Boys have watched me. OK, you boys are going to have a go at this. Oh God, I. Said don't worry about the calcium powder because we don't have to do that every time. OK, just get some frogs in there. I get some crickets in there. So the two of them, I don't know what the fuck happened, but all of a sudden I hear this and they dropped something and anyway, crickets apparently escaped all into the living room.

11:17 How many I don't know. Oh, Jesus. And so I I was Oh my God. So I got the vacuum cleaner like you know, and I vacuumed under the cabinet a bit trying to like suck them out and they went under there and you know, all this. Anyway, as we then sat down the couch later, like the boys would be like Mum, look the cricket shit. All right, I hand caught for crickets. Oh, do you like Mr. Miyagi? Well, no, they didn't call me Mr. Miyagi though. So I'm like Steve Irwin and I'm like, Oh yeah, call me the Cricket Hunter instead of the Crocodile Hunter.

11:50 I love it. Meg Owen. Like yeah, crocodiles, Crickets. Same same. So fun you're. Gonna have to practice with your chopsticks, I know. I really will actually try to get up with the tweezer things. That was like insane. Oh. Mate, Oh, you're a better woman than I, you really are. No, I'm not. I'm insane. It's ridiculous, it's so stupid, but God, it's entertaining.

12:20 I love it. I love it. So when I was look, so you know how our algorithms are tailored in a certain way, right? And rabbit holes happen. So this week I think I was actually looking up. So we had heaps of case suggestions come through from different people this week. Yes. And that was great, which has been awesome. Yeah, I've we've added quite a few and ones that I didn't know about. So before I add them to the list, I just have a quick look and just say like, is there enough in this? Yeah. So I was looking this up, but that's obviously fed my algorithm right.

12:57 And I came across this case. Now, it's certainly not something that we can do a full episode on, but I wanted to talk about it today. Because I love this. Fucking fascinating. So this happened in Japan in 19 November of 1993, right? It's, it's a fucking tragic. So a woman, a 32 year old woman by the name of Namiko Takaba was murdered in her own home with her two year old son present, right? This is in 1993. And it was an apparently it was an absolute bloodbath. You know, she was, it was a brutal, brutal murder.

13:35 And so her husband, his name was Satoru Takaba. He spent about 145 thousand U.S. dollars over the subsequent 26 years still paying rent on that, on that, on their unit, on their house, and he left it in. It had been untouched. So when the investigation happened into her murder, they, the police back in 1993 couldn't do anything that they collected samples for DNA and that kind of thing, but it never LED anywhere. Nothing ever really happened in order to preserve the crime scene until her murderer was found.

14:16 He and his son moved out of there. Yep. But he kept that apartment. Wow without touching it. No one went in there for 26 years. Yeah, right. Until end of last year, end of 2025, I think it was in November of last year. Yeah. Some blood stains. So the police would go in and maybe take extra bits of evidence and that kind of thing because they knew he was preserving this crime scene. Yeah. And they did that, and they found the person who murdered her 26 years after the fact. Wow. Right. So the other thing is in Japan, there was a statute of limitations for being convicted of a murder.

15:02 And I think it was something like 10 years. It was not much at all, No. So her husband, he actually ended up being part of a team of people. Yeah. Who abolished who abolished the statute of limitations? So it's there is no statute of limitations anymore for murder. They should never be. There shouldn't be. He did that in 2010, knowing that, knowing that his wife's murder state did. Even find out who it was, they're not gonna get convicted. Yes. Love that, love this. Wow. What a dedicated human. What a dedicated human.

15:35 Now, what they found was that the murderer was a classmate of his wife. They'd been on the same tennis team, right? And they had they think the the police now pose the what's the word? The the MO like the reason she did it. Yeah. Is because there was an unrequited love. There, so stalked her and. Basically she no it was a female. Female. Yep. Wow. A female by the name of Kumiko Yasufuku. I mean, cause in Japan, I mean, it doesn't rates are so low, so low and like this kind of murder just doesn't happen.

16:17 So yeah, wow. Isn't that amazing? That's incredible. Yeah, well, her husband. Oh my God. Yeah, hats off to him. Absolutely. I mean, but also I hope in doing all of that he also was able to go and live his life though too, for some sake if anything. Yeah, I, I couldn't find a lot about, no, what had happened aside from this advocacy kind of work that he'd done. So he obviously he didn't let it go. No. So it would have impacted his life. Absolutely. But yeah, Crazy. That's wow. Crazy. Crazy. That is crazy.

16:48 Yeah. Gosh. Whoa, I mean that's so much to put into that of like, I just want to I've got so many questions around like the preserving of that room and what because I mean natural things occur, you know, like and that's like that and I. Question the smell. That was my first one. Like did he clear the fridge out or did he like Oh no I believe. I believe, I believe it wasn't just left. Left. Yeah, but but I'm like if he left the blood stains on the floor and that kind of thing, I'm like, yeah, that would.

17:16 Well, after a while it actually probably wouldn't smell. But while it was yeah, doing it, no, actually probably still would. Poor neighbors. Yeah, Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I couldn't find anything about that. And would like the DNA in like the blood like that, would it become not usable at at a point? No, I think you could be dried and and it would be, yeah, remaining, Yeah, they could still use. They could still because there was so much of it to. It's not like it was Trace from what I can gather.

17:45 It was an absolute bloodbath. He's seen it wasn't like he cleaned up, but like he cleaned. But you know, obviously, you know how it's never clean. Yeah, no. So they. Didn't even do that. He was like he. Literally left it. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, God. Sorry for any men out there who is wives. Wow, you've got to live. You've got to live to that standard now, guys. 100 percent, 100%, yeah. An absolute like, oh, just amazing, Yeah. Crazy. Well, I mean he got ruled out pretty quick. I'm dare say of like being like because it'd be he'd be prime suspect, you know first.

18:15 Definitely. Definitely was. Not no, no. Wow. And then the other thing. Have you seen the latest update in the Nancy Guthrie disappearance? No, I've actually dropped off my radar. Yeah, came on there well. Same. I was thinking about it the other day and I'm like, I actually haven't heard much about it, but so you know how there was that doorbell camera footage? Yes, OK. So obviously that that's been put out to the world. I mean, we've seen it. We're in Australia, Yeah. And it's obviously all over social media.

18:46 And so you've got your social media sleuths who are like, we're gonna fucking figure out who this person is. Seriously, I really think that cases like this need to be handed to a group of like retired women. Yeah, Bloody oak. Yeah. So what happened from that was this bloke by the name of Luke Daly was identified by multiple sources and all of that sort of stuff, and he was actually detained in a SWAT raid because they thought he was linked to her. Yeah, I remember that happening too. Yeah, those appearance.

19:14 Right. Yep, Yep. So what they're saying now is that he actually isn't the. Person No. And yeah, so like, I feel like, you know, you say, let's hand this to Internet sleuths. Yes, yeah. But we can clearly, obviously, very easily go down a path that may not be quite right. And now this bloke is input 1.1 million. Was it like? Son-in-law like in like he was kind of a little bit of. AI I'm not sure nothing's really come of. No, it really, it went quiet on that entirely. And I was like, well, the FBI, someone who knows her, is to me the right place to start.

19:51 I think so too. There's a $1.1 million reward out. Right. I'll just so I'm I'm dying to know what happened. I know. Do you really think she's alive? No. I don't. This is the thing. I don't. Anyway, what's this space? Well, the. Other thing we probably talk about too though is what happened yesterday. What happened yesterday? What have I missed? Greg Lynn? Oh, tell me. I don't know. You don't know. Oh, my God. OK, So Greg Lynn, yesterday the judge came back with his ruling on whether or not he got bail.

20:22 It was denied. Oh, thank fuck. I literally, I was driving along when it came on the radio and I was like, yes, like. Thank God, like he couldn't have been let out. Like that would have been dangerous. The judge to decide that would have been dangerous to society. I think so too. I mean. Have you also seen Scott Peterson? So there's a new documentary apparently come being made by A&E at the minute. Yeah. And it's about, it's like from the perspective of, I think his legal team and why they are appealing his sentence.

20:56 Yeah. And they're pushing, Well, they're pushing for a new trial. Yeah. So apparently that's gonna be the subject of a new documentary. So that I think that'll be an interesting one to watch. But I mean, when we feel how we feel about that, that's. What we haven't done, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. We need to. I feel like we now need to wait for this to play out before we can do the lazy people. And there's a lot of people who think that he's innocent. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just really interested to watch this space.

21:24 And I believe from what I've been reading, there are grounds for a new trial. I I. Would so I believe, I think that will happen previously, yeah. So that'll be an interesting one to see through. This is where I think, and again, Greg Lynn's case I think highlights this entirely, that there needs to be a re look at laws of how we can stop. I mean, you need, you need guilty people being put away and innocent people will not. Yeah, I fully understand that. But like in this case where with like Greg Lynn, where there is clear evidence that he, well, he has admitted to being there, to destroying the bodies to, you know, OK, he needs to get something.

22:02 He can't even like, I just can't understand. He's off of 1 charge already entirely. I know the fact that he is only now having to appeal, you know? Oh, my God. Clay's. Yeah. Carol Clay. Clay's murder is just beyond my comprehension. I know especially like, OK, you say the death of Russell was an, like, accidental or whatever. Yeah, but you're still tampered with a dead body. You moved a dead body. You hit it. You hit it. You didn't. Go to the police at all at any point. I just feel like even if we take his story at face value of what he has admitted, you still belong in jail for, for something.

22:43 Yeah, OK. I, I that's what I I feel like that fully. Justice is not. I fully fully agree like I I his. Family, the families alone of what they had to go through, of not knowing because you chose to not tell anyone what happened. Yeah. And. It's to me enough to me. I feel really sorry for Russell Hill's family because like, I feel for his wife. I feel for her because of the situation and circumstance that he was in when he died. Yes. Like that's one thing for her to have to process and, and for his children as well for, for people who knew him, but especially for his wife.

23:17 And then on top of that, for Greg Lynn not to be convicted of his murder. Like I just, it's, it's disgusting. Disgusting, but he admitted to what he admitted. To I know exactly. So he needs to be at least convicted of that. Yeah. Anyway, again, watch this space. All right, shout outs for today. Patreons. We have two new Patreons. Amber Armstrong and Azara are who. Azara actually gave us some really good case suggestions. I think it was her case suggestions I was looking up when I came across the Japanese story.

23:47 Yeah. And then we had a coffee bought for us. Coffee, some coffees bought for us by Sally J, who's a North Carolina via New Jersey but originally from a beach town in Connecticut. So thank you very much to everybody for your support. Thank you to everyone. We've, I've noticed we've actually had a huge amount of engagement in terms of like shares and that kind of thing on the socials and people making lots of comments and that kind of thing. Especially we really appreciate the comments by Sarah Atkinson.

24:16 She actually was commenting on how slow 9 year olds are. She's like. Wait until they're 14. I actually, that is my biggest fear is yeah. Teenage. Sorry, hold on, sorry they get slower. Is that even possible? That sloth in like, Zooland, Yeah, Oh my God. Zootopia. Oh my God. In my brain. Yeah, that's exactly what they all look like, isn't it? Yeah, 100%. And then another, another really lovely comment on our socials from Tracy Vaughn. So please keep them coming everyone. I have to say too, there was a heap of comments in a group that I'm, I'm in as a pod.

24:54 It's like podcasts kind of group, like just in general, true crime podcast specifically. And a lot of people put suggestions in there for podcasts and things to listen to. And I saw someone asking about specifically wanting some banter, you know, true crime podcast. And I was like, well, this sounds like they're describing us. And I went to go and comment I didn't know to because we had multiple people watching us, which was so cool to say. I've that was amazing. So thank you to what? The hell? That's amazing.

25:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's even a particular comment was like, I second this. Yeah, I second to car investies. So yeah, like it was, it was multiple people. Oh. My God, that actually makes me feel like really like. Oh, I totally, I've actually screenshot it because I was going to send it to you and I forgot. So can you send it to you? And I was really cool. I was really impressed. I was like, Oh my gosh. Because normally I go in and go, you know, check us out, you know, and, and tag, tag the page or whatever.

25:44 Yeah. And I was thinking, oh God, as the person who produced, you know, is that a little bit, you know, But I mean, I'm just trying to put it out there for people like, yeah, find us elsewhere. But like for other people to do that for us, I think is it speaks even more. And then the person who I mean, clearly I'm gonna say we're good and other people say it. Although I think we're our own harshest critics. To be fair, that's true as well. Actually, no, we're not our harshest critics. Oh, no, no, we didn't say that.

26:09 We're, you know, so sorry. All those comments in there. I know. Please come back. I know. No, it's so funny. Yes. Yeah, alright. We don't feel sorry for people who like.

26:20 That's my favorite. Yeah, I love it. Oh God. OK, so let's get into today's case cause bloody hell Peter will be in the city by the time this band is finished for today. Jesus, yes. Yeah, maybe I can edit some out. I'm so good at that. Don't you dare. I know I won't. He needs, he deserves he deserves a whole train ride of just listening to our banter. OK, so today we're covering the case of Stephanie Scott. This case is. I remember it happening. It is absolutely, Oh my God, the most tragic of circumstances.

26:56 Yeah. And oh, it's, it's, it's a big, well, there's not a huge amount. The stories, the story, we kind of know everything there is to know about it, which is in some ways a good thing because I think we can learn. Well, I think we have learned a lot from this. And I think there has been, you know, different things that have happened, different procedures that have happened, and things that have come from this that, you know, even though this is the most tragic thing and it should never have happened, learnings have come from it and things have come from it, I think.

27:26 We can still do better, but yeah. Of course we can always do better. Yeah, we can always do better. So Stephanie Claire Scott was born on the 14th of October in 1988 in Sydney. She was born to parents Robert or Bob and Marilyn Scott. Her, she had two sisters and two brothers. Big family. Yeah, that's. I can't imagine having 5. Kids. Holy crap. Her mom and dad are the most gorgeous down to earth. Like you can just tell they are sort of the earth type of people really, you know, obviously very family oriented, very much, you know, loved their children, loved their life.

28:08 Yeah. And just absolutely lovely at the time of of all of these these goings on, Stephanie was engaged to a man by the name of Aaron Leeson Wooley. They'd been together for five years and they'd actually met at high school, didn't sort of have a relationship during that time, but remained in similar circles and would socialize together. And at Aaron's 21st, they actually got together so and were basically inseparable from that point onward. They just loved one another very, very much. And even during this time, Stephanie had gone off to university in Wagga.

28:53 So she attended Charleston University. She was starting studying a Bachelor of Education of Secondary Education. And even though they were, I mean, Wagga's probably, what, like a couple of hours drive? Couple of hour drive, Yeah. From where they were living? From where? Yeah, from where Aaron was living. They still stayed together throughout that whole time. They're separate, but they were still together. Yeah, and they did anything they could to see each other on weekends and catch up whenever they could.

29:19 They definitely kept their relationship alive via text messages and phone calls, and Aaron has said since said that during their relationship they didn't really even go a few hours without sending, checking in with each other, sending a text, sending something just. Used to like long distance relationship and they were good at it like kind of thing in that sense that they they knew how to communicate like that. Yeah, which is lovely because I think especially in a university environment, that would have been really tough.

29:46 Yeah. But, you know, they did they they stuck it out. So after Stephanie graduated from university, she got her first job at a very, very small town, Leighton High School. You got 10,000 people in the community. Yeah, and the school, the high school only had a few 100 kids. Yeah, it was. So it wasn't big, but then you look at the footprint of the school, I'm like, they had really good facilities, Really good facilities. I. Know yeah aerial shots of it I was like. Good high school, good high school, Like really nice, nice, lots of buildings, lots of so much space.

30:16 Like really, really cool, which is awesome. She was employed there as an English and drama teacher. Yep. And the students all describe her as being somebody like, she was 26 years old at the time of of this incident, but she'd been working there, I think. Yeah, she'd. Been there. So she was young. Yep. It was her first job out of university, but, and so I think the students really related to her. And in a school of that size, I would feel, I feel as though she would know. They would all the students would know all the teachers, whether you had her as a teacher.

30:49 Or not, this is it. There was actually a student that was interviewed on a news story. And it broke me when I this this young girl, she was, would have been like, you know, sort of 1516. And she said, she said about it like this when they were looking for her, they didn't know what what had gone on yet. But she said she's just the teacher. When you've got problems at home, no matter whether you were her student or not, you knew you could go and speak to her. And I just thought that is just in a rural community like that there, you know, where you are limited of how many people in your life, you know, you can go to potentially.

31:19 I think to know that she was someone, regardless of being your teacher or not, she was a teacher that would be there for you. And listen. Yeah. Oh God, I that really that was she's She was clearly damn good at her job. Yeah. Did you have a teacher like that at school? I said you have somebody. Yeah, same. I can, I can think of actually two teachers who I feel like, you know, I had that kind of impact on me. Yeah, one in primary school, Mom from high. Same same. One from primary, one from high school.

31:42 That's probably why ended up doing what I did probably in the end, like, wow, OK, yeah, 'cause I, yeah, they, they teachers do, I mean, teachers do make marks on kids, you know, they, they, you know. And so if it's just impressive the in her first couple of years of teaching really that that's the, the, and I reckon they're probably your big years of teaching because that's when you, you know. You're not jaded, jaded and you don't, you know, she didn't have her own children at this time. So you're very, you know, very committed.

32:09 Yeah, that's it. But I mean, well, teaching was in her blood, too, because her dad was a teacher and a principal of a school. So I think it was, you know, almost bred into her this, you know, this nature. But yeah, so. So she was clearly loved by her students. Absolutely. She was described by the principal of Leaton High School as bright, bubbly and very fun loving. Yeah, and she really was. But she was so dedicated to her job. Yes, so dedicated. So much so that on Easter Sunday, so April 15th, April the 5th.

32:38 Sorry, 2015. So we should just say, like, I think you were going on to it before, but no, no, that they're living in Leighton as in like that Aaron, when they when she got the job at Leighton, Aaron and yes, Aaron, Stephanie made the decision that instead of doing remote kind of living remote to the to each other that way that they would live together. So they moved into Leighton them together and he found a job locally doing what he was doing. So it all sort of was going really well for them in that sense.

33:05 And we, and then we should say, I guess in a on April 5th, no, April 11th, 2014, they became engaged. Yes. And so they were absolutely ecstatic. So really excited to to start that next chapter of their lives, which was clearly the right thing. They were living together. They'd already been living together in Leighton and and living a great life. You know, they were really on their way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. And they were actually due to be married a year later. So a year after they got engaged, they were.

33:35 They were due to be married, Yeah. Which was only a week after Easter. Yeah, so. Her true teacher doing it in the school. That's right. I mean. The dedication right there. She's just, but I feel like her dedication is like another level above even, You know, there's always those teachers who go above and beyond. And she was absolutely one of those people. Because. So on Easter Sunday, on the 5th of April in 2015, so the night before, so on the 4th of April, yeah. They were actually invited to a party back at their hometown, their hometown.

34:12 And Aaron Stephanie was like, oh, you know what? I'm gonna stay at home. I've actually got a few things to do for the wedding, which was only a week away. Yeah. And I wanted to. She wanted to get a few things done for the teacher who was going to be taking over from her because even though she was getting married on the school holidays, their honeymoon, which was to Tahiti, was going to be extended beyond the school holidays. So she wanted to have all of her lesson plans and stuff, you know, ready for that?

34:39 Yeah. Ready for that substitute teacher to come in and and hit the ground running with her students. Yeah. So she said to Aaron, you go off, you go to that party, no worries. And I'll just stay back and get all these things done. Now, apparently, in terms of preparation for her wedding, she had done everything herself. Like as in, I'm not saying she begrudgingly did it. She wanted to do everything. Herself, she was so ready for this and wanted it so badly. And like it was so excited she'd had her hens day the weekend before and which was a really lovely day.

35:12 Like you can see photos of especially there's a really lovely photo that's available. You can just Google it of her and her mum and and Stephanie's wearing a, you know, one of those bride to be sashes and she just looks she's so beautiful and her mum looks her and her mum looks so similar. They do and her mum just looks. They just have the same smile. They're beaming. They're so happy, they're so excited. Her mum and dad loved Aaron so much. He was like another son to them. I mean, he they'd known him ever since they were in high the.

35:43 Kids believed Aaron went to high school where her dad was principal. Yeah, and he had developed a good relationship with him at school later. Even that says a lot. Doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, they would definitely, you know, this was meant to be, I think. Almost 100 percent, 100%. Yeah, so OK, basically on that day, on the Easter Sunday. Now, again, Speaking of dedication, going into school on Easter Sunday, which is the day that nothing happens, nothing's open. No, no. You know, everyone's out doing family things.

36:15 Stephanie decided to go to the school to finish off her lesson plans. Stephanie didn't actually have her own key to the schools, so she went to one of her colleagues houses and the colleague went to the school with her, unlocked the door and gave Stephanie the keys to lock back up when she was finished. These keys were on a lanyard and like quite a distinctive reset of keys. Yep, like. Lanyard Yep Yep and I had Leighton Heights on them or something like that I. Believe. So marks something somewhere.

36:45 And there was something on the lanyard that sort of made them distinctive in that visually, people knew that they belonged to this particular teacher. Yeah. So what Stephanie did when she got to school on that day is she actually went straight to the English staff room and did all of her prepping. Apparently as soon as she got to the school, she logged in and she sent an e-mail to the bus company that she'd hired to transport all of her wedding guests, just to confirm timings and that kind of thing, because it was only a week away, I suppose.

37:17 And I guess you know, the fact they were getting married in Leeton, but they, well, they've had guests. Family and friends were three hours away where their hometown sort. Of thing. So everyone was coming to the town, so they organized transport to and from the wedding, which is great. Amazing. I would have loved that. Yeah. You know, you don't have to worry about it. Have a few bevies and whatnot. And so she did that as soon as she got to the school, then she spent a couple of hours. She, I think they, I think she and Aaron had had some text conversations during that.

37:49 Morning had and they to the point where he had let her know that he had left where he was at this at the hometown. Yep, which they both knew the length of that trip being sort of a three hour trip. Yep that they had communicated already of roughly her. She wouldn't, she knew roughly when he was due back and but he they'd also said that they would communicate on the throughout the day. And you know, he'd sort of left the message with like, I'll, I'll, I'll chat to you later, like kind of thing, as in I'll message you as I'm on my way again, like kind of thing.

38:17 So he'd left and he was, the plan was to communicate again before he even got home. And obviously that they would get together once they got home and he was planning he'd, I think he'd booked a restaurant he had for that night as well. So that she was aware of plans beyond the next few hours of her working at the school and doing that job, that there was things to do. Yeah, that's it. So she spent a couple of hours at the school preparing her lesson plans and it got to the point where she'd kind of finished up and she needed to go into a certain, I don't know whether it was like her actual classroom that she went into, but she needed to use a special code to go in there to disarm the alarm.

38:54 Yes. So she disarmed the alarm. I think it was at like 131 or something like that. Yeah, I've got it written down. Oh, here we go. Yeah, it was 13131. And then she re armed it at 1:38. So she's gone into this particular classroom where she had her own code. So they know it was her because it was an individualized code. So we know that at 138 she rearmed that alarm. Yeah. And it likely has gone to leave leave the school at that point. Yes, when she's left the school, she's encountered a cleaner well.

39:27 She did see him earlier. Well, he no, sorry, I shouldn't say that he saw her earlier. He did say he saw her in that staff room on her laptop working. He believes that she knew that he was there. His car was in the same car park, yeah. So I don't think and because I mean, I've been in many schools on my own doing similar to what Stephanie has done, That's very eerie because kids are noisy and when the kids aren't there, it's like what? It's a it's a weird feeling. I bet you hear the smallest noises.

39:59 OK, so I dare say her I would personally is how I would have felt pulling up saying that someone else's car was there and that you can't, you probably would have recognised whose car it was potentially as well that you'd be like, OK, I'm not here by myself. So you would hear the noises and kind of know that's that'll be so and so doing what they doing, you know, right. So I think that would have been almost comforting to her at that point of like, you know, someone who else who else is meant to be here like as in well meant to.

40:24 I'll keep that for later talk. We'll come back to that. But like someone that you have seen to be in the area and is employed by that space then yeah, then you would be like, OK, that's OK. That noise is fine because otherwise the Creek of every wall and anything is creepy. Oh my God. Yeah, I can imagine it would be. Yeah. So as Stephanie is walking out of the school, she sees this person who she knows is a cleaner at the school. And she says, oh, see you later. Have a Have a lovely Easter. Yeah.

40:56 Aaron comes home from where did they live? Kanawindra. Yes. And he gets home and he's like, oh, that's really weird. Steph's car isn't in the driveway. She drove a red Mazda and which he he expected her to be home because she only had a couple of hours of work. He had been messaging her and he tried to call her on his way home, but she hadn't answered. And she's and he thought, oh, she's either deep in whatever she's doing in work, or she's let her phone go flat. And and that's why. He was like, that's, that's unusual for her, but I guess it happened.

41:32 Yeah, yeah. So he gets home and he's like, really strange. She's not here. He waits at home for a little bit and then he decides to go out and look for her because the town of Leighton is small. It's got 1 main road really. And then there's a couple of other, you know, points of interest like the school. So he's driven down the main road, hasn't seen her car. He's driven to the school, her, the car's not there. He's then driven around like the streets where she, he knows her friends live, like work colleagues and other friends.

42:02 Her car's nowhere to be seen. So he goes home and he's like, this is so weird. Obviously he's trying to call her. Still no answer. And he ends up that night he actually phones all of her friends in Leighton to say, you know, have you seen her? And no one had seen her. No one knew where she was. She was also supposed to return those keys to that colleague of hers and they hadn't been returned. So that was obviously of note as well because that was so out of character. She wouldn't do that, who she was.

42:28 And she also wouldn't ever want to worry anyone. And Aaron was worried. And her friends who Aaron had spoken to was sort of a bit worried too. This is really strange. Aaron ends up going to bed that night, very restless sleep. I, I, daddy would have slept at all. Felt sick. He would have felt horrible. The next morning he wakes up and Steph's still not at home. Sorry if he he slept at. All Yeah, well he he, you know early it was very early hours of the morning that he then contacted her family yeah.

42:57 They immediately get in the car and come to Leighton to help look for her. And they did. They looked for her for the rest of that day because. They sort of thought that in Leighton there's a number of like sort of irrigation ditches and things like that, that potentially if she'd driven somewhere, there was a chance that maybe she'd had a car accident and that she was stuck somewhere like, and this is sort of, I guess the, you know, positive thinking. And that that's the best case scenario, I guess in this, you know, like she's just had a car accident.

43:23 She's looking for needs help. We just need to get to her like. Got in that so. It's a scary thought. Exactly. That's right. That's scary enough. Yeah. But, you know, you're like, I mean, I guess that's what you're hoping at this point. When she hasn't turned up, you're kind of like, she's had a car accident. She just needs help. We'll get to her. We'll get there. Feel like that would be where your mind would go like yeah, yeah. So by 4:30 PM though, they're they decided, oh we, we need to report this now to the police.

43:47 So Aaron goes to the local police station and does so. Reports her as a missing person and look, they take it pretty. Seriously. Very seriously. Immediately. Which is great, but they helicopters up. Everything. Yeah, but they assumed the same thing. They assumed that she'd either had a car accident, had gone off the road somewhere, was in a ditch. Very quickly, I mean, in any of these scenarios, you sort of go, you know, future husband as she, you know, getting cold feet. Has she gone to, you know, go and like have some time to herself because oh, God, am I doing the right thing marrying this person?

44:16 But police very quickly, from talking to Aaron and his and her parents were like, oh, that's not the scenario. And all the everyone they spoke to, like all the colleagues in Leeton were like, no, no, no, no, no, that's. Not who she. Is no no. She was so excited about this wedding. There is no way that that's what she's doing. Like yeah, but I so you. Stand the police. Oh, I have a good question. Absolutely. No, I totally agree with them. And but it didn't also stop them from looking for it. It's not like they went, oh, let's wait another 24 hours, no.

44:40 They were on striking, but they were like, I was like, well, maybe this is the scenario. Maybe she just needs some time. And but they were very quickly like, oh, actually, let's just not even bother thinking about that path anymore because that's not who she was. Yeah. Yeah, which, good on them. Good on the police for listening. Yeah, to them and to the people who knew. Her best and not just missing that of like, yeah, I should just turn up. Yeah, yeah. As you said, they got helicopters up in the air very, very quickly.

45:05 They had obviously patrol cars going out searching. Stephanie's family were out searching and unfortunately to no, to no avail. And it was just like I, I can't imagine how harrowing that would be, not only for Aaron, but for her family. Like how I just can't. I actually just can't imagine. It no, no. All right, so I guess we get to the point where her body is found. Well, before that, like they, they sort of start, yeah. So obviously they're looking at, you know, what's going on here. There was actually a report from someone who knew Stephanie that had said actually that she had seen Stephanie at the supermarket at about 1:00, which at the time they took that on face value that that's, you know, truth.

45:59 And so that kind of that through their timeline a little bit that if that's where she they basically were that shifted where they were looking for her because they weren't then looking at the school so much as they were then, OK, well, she's at the supermarket. That was after whatever time she thought she saw Stephanie at the supermarket was after she'd been at the school. So they were like, OK, well, so she's been seen, seen beyond the school grounds. But then very soon, soon after that, this person came back to the police and said, I'm really sorry.

46:28 I've stuffed up. That was actually the day before. That was Saturday, not Sunday that I saw her do that. And so that then shifted their thinking as well. So they went back to looking at the school. So at the school they were going, OK, this has to be in the last place that she was seen. So obviously with those communications from her laptop, the logins from the, you know, from the room, all those types of things. And they started looking at who else was there. And there was a report from a neighbor from the school who said that they had seen, he'd seen this other person's car at the the car park there alongside Stephanie's.

47:02 So that sort of flagged them to be starting to look at this person who else was on the grounds. They want to talk to them about what they had seen and what time did Stephanie leave and all these sorts of things. So I believe that's sort of what flagged them to this person originally. So they went and had a chat with this person. So he was the by the name of Vincent Stanford. Vincent had a conversation with the police and and he said to them he didn't know too much, that he saw Stephanie, as we said, like in that room and that she was on her computer.

47:33 And that's really all he knew about that. And then they said, what did you do after you left the school? And he said that he went to a particular shop and he named that shop and that immediately red flag to this cop. Well, it's been a small. Town didn't though. He actually went back to his, He went back to the station and said to his Sergeant, oh, he said he was here, so I'm gonna go and check that out. And the sergeant's like, it was Easter Sunday, mate. Yeah, the shot was shut, was shut. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

47:59 So that actually then he's like, you need to go out and reinterview him and figure out what what happened. Yeah. And where he actually was, because that's he. Actually flagged that he's lying about where he was, clearly because yeah, yeah, yeah. That was basically the same from that. They've gone to his house, yes. So to go and go, OK, we need to have another chat with him when they've rocked up at the house. He wasn't home, but his mum was now interestingly. So they this is, I guess it's a small town.

48:27 They, these people had not been living in the town no terribly long, no, but they were known as because it was such a small place. People didn't know of them. It's and although that sort of thing. But so they did, they spoke to the mum and the mum very much when they said, you know, like, can we come in, You know, we have a little look around. Mum was immediately like, yeah, she'll go for it. She didn't, she was pretty keen for them to I think not keen for them to have a look around. But she didn't, she wasn't faced by that.

48:51 She wasn't concerned. So she let them do that in there looking or just looking around. So they are not, they don't have a warrant to search. They're not searching the property. They were looking around. They did not pick things up and lift things or open things. They looked right in looking. They saw a set of keys that looked very much like the keys that were identified as being the ones that should have been returned to this friend that's right at the, which was school keys. So by seeing that, that flagged enough for them to say, have reasonable grounds to have a search.

49:25 Get a warrant. Actually have a warrant and search so that search then brought up a whole lot of other. Stuff. Oh my God, So much stuff, So much stuff. So they got the warrant pretty much immediately and they did the, you know, for essentially A forensic search to figure out what it was going on. They found, well, they actually found outside the house, so still on the property, but not inside the home. They found a used condom that had been tied off inside the house. They found the packet to that used condom that had been ripped open, obviously to be used.

50:06 They during the search, Vincent came home, yes, in his car. And immediately they seized his car, which was part of the warrant. Yep. And he's, they said to him, hey, mate, where have you been? Like, what have you been doing? And he's like, oh, I've just been out taking photos and they're like, oh, can we have a look at your camera? And he's like, yeah, sure. Yeah. What do they find on there, man? Oh, God. Oh, it's actually, it's actually horrible. And it's literally the first photos they look at too, like which is.

50:37 The first two photos. Two photos like so he hadn't been out that day doing that. I don't know like this as. Well, no, I believe he had. Been that day. It was that day. So, So this is the photos day. Yeah, this is the Monday of the. Easter Monday, Monday. So the day after Stephanie went missing. So on this camera, they open it up and see a photo of clearly a burnt body. And when they asked him what what is this and where does it come from, his response was that he had it was a screenshot that he'd taken of a horror movie.

51:11 The the police knew immediately that wasn't the case. They could tell that it was not that, but that was his response to it. You. Can't tell when a photo's being taken of a from a screen. Oh my God. Yeah, like, and this was not that. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it. Wasn't that and they could. Even from this photo they could tell it was a female body. In a wooded area, that was kind of. That was kind. Of all they contact from that. Photo, but they would see it was a female body that had been what was burnt.

51:40 So I mean, God, you have to be like, what the fuck? You know, you've got your guy basically right here now you can become tunnel vision to me like this is. Yeah, you know. Well, the other things that they found in the home, sorry, just getting back to that. So like this was all happening concurrently. This is all happening at the same time. Yeah. They found a bra, Yes. And they found a knife that actually still had some blood staining on it. So they're looking at that. They also then obviously search his car.

52:08 There's some MDF board in the back of his car that had blood on it. And so they've obviously seized all of these things to then go and really practically test it. Yeah, it's horrific because the other thing that they found on that camera roll was nearly 2000 photos of young girls, 1 particular girl. There were a lot of photos of a 12 year old girl who was later found to be a girl, a student of Layton high school. They found photos depicting beastiality and other lewd sexual acts on minors and women, and a lot of photos that the police could tell the women were and girls were unaware that those photos were being taken of them.

53:03 He was really, it was really obvious. He'd been stalking a number of people. Yeah. They were not photos of Stephanie. No on the camera aside from. Well, well. We're streaming, Yeah at this point, but yeah, yeah, there were no photos of Stephanie like with her unknowingly being taken with like where the other women known to Stephanie, even teachers from the school students, as we said once, 2. Shopkeepers. So there were two different shops and there was a woman from these two shops in Leighton that had had a quite a large number of photos of those two women.

53:36 Yeah, just horrible. So Vincent Stanford, he was born on the 21st of December in 1990 in Tasmania. When he was I think 3 years old, he moved to the Netherlands with his mom. So his mom and dad split up and his mom was from the Netherlands so they moved back there. He was an identical twin and he had another brother and when they were, I think he was a young, it wasn't that I I think he was like 11 or 12 and they moved back to Australia. Oh no, I think it was older than that actually. Oh, was it?

54:12 So the incident with the teacher, did that happen in the Netherlands? Did it? Oh. Now you've got me questioning that, actually. I thought it happened. Yeah. No, I think you might be right. No, it might be earlier. They came back here. Yeah. Right. So I, I, I believe he was like roughly 10 when they moved back from the Netherlands. Yeah, when he was 12 years old, he choked a teacher. So apparently he was quite, like, he had a lot of behavioral issues at school. And on this particular day, he'd absconded, and this teacher found him and went to grab his jacket to kind of, I guess, restrain him, you know?

54:44 I mean, you know, I can't even imagine a teacher being in that situation. You know, he's leaving the school. They've got responsibility. There's a duty of care. And anyway, so she's going to grab his jacket. And with that, he's turned and choked her. Yeah. She ended up in hospital.

55:02 Like unbelievable. Yeah, he ended up being expelled from that school and he went to a school. That behavioral school, they kind of call it, which I don't know what that would be. I don't know what what sort of yeah, but some sort of focused school on children with challenging behaviours. Yeah, around this time he was actually also diagnosed with autism and oppositional defiant disorder. ODD. Yeah. And it sounds to me like he had other really psychotic behaviours. Let's really just say there's two things can be true at the same time.

55:36 He may have autism, but I do believe he had a whole lot of other things going. On 100. Percent. And I do think that diagnostically, you know, the ASD is not potentially the cause of these physically harmful. Not at all. Things that he's he did as a child and then as an adult, I think they're, they're two separate issues going on for him. Personally, I fully agree. There's also. Social stuff that he has with and I, I can understand that being ASD traits, Yep. But these other intrusive thoughts, et cetera, that he he describes basically having thoughts around wanting to kill people from the age of 7.

56:14 Yes. That stuff I don't that to me is not symptomatic, symptomatic of like an ASD diagnosis. That's that's more. Oh yeah, yeah. And other, other things going on. So definitely, I mean, I think the combination of the two would be, yeah, really challenging, Yeah. But yeah, let's just say that. Oh, definitely. Yeah. There is no way that I'm saying that, no, just because he's autistic, he's perpetrated something horrific or, you know, yeah, there's so much going on with this. Bloke, yeah. All right, So he's obviously then arrested and at the point where, you know, the police have been conducting this search and found some very interesting and damning things.

57:01 The police do then at this point they also then find the car. So the car is found at about. It's about 8 kilometers away from. 11. 11 kilometers. What is it from the? From where they? Live. Not that it really matters. But yeah, well, about that, you know, like honey. So about 11 K away from the high school and where they live and it's found like in a paddock next to an irrigation ditch which is full of water. So they they did find the car there which. It was parked under a tree as well which like under a big tree which is why they think when they did the aerial search of the area that they didn't see in a.

57:36 Car, right? Yeah. So they do do a massive search around then from the car, like trying to find, you know, it's the body near here. They also then get a tip once they do find the car, they have a phone call come in saying that they that someone did see a person throwing something into a ditch near there. So that sent the divers out then into that water to then have a look as well. So the divers then were able to retrieve from there the laptop or an iPad. Laptop. So the guy thought it was an iPad but it ended up being her laptop.

58:09 A laptop. So it ended up being Stephanie's laptop. So this really sort of, again, sort of led to them to think, you know, well, obviously Stephanie hasn't driven the car to hear herself kind of thing and then thrown her laptop in there. That doesn't really make sense. So yeah, so they found the laptop. Was there anything that they found in the water? No, no, no, no. Just a laptop there. So yeah, this is all sort of coming together. But at this point, Vincent is still not saying anything until the 11th of April.

58:39 Yep. Finally on the 11th of April, he says that he wants to speak to the police officers. Now, unbeknownst to him prior to that, him saying that they actually did find her body. So they actually had another tip of someone else came in where they had identified an area that they had seen someone drive up to and dump something. And so they followed that up and it turned out that they they did find Stephanie's body 70 kilometers away from Leighton. Yeah. So a fair drive out. In Kokopara National Park, yeah.

59:15 So this was a place that Vincent frequented as a camper. Yeah. So it was an area that was very familiar to him. He did like to spend a lot of time on his own and camping was one of the ways that he sort of, I guess, escaped and had that time. So, yeah, he was. This area in particular was very familiar to him. Yeah. What he. Yeah. Are we going to get? To the. Perpetration of it. Now, so, yeah, so I mean, alongside them finding this body basically, then they do get a bit more of a story from him, yeah, to then be able to marry up.

59:48 What's going on? So they don't, they don't tell him though, no, that they have found her body, no. They found her body the day before her wedding day and he. Finally confessed on the wedding day. Yeah. Yeah, OK. So what he says happened. Yeah. So his take, yeah, Yeah, is, well, one thing I'll just say if you you can see the interview tapes, they are out there. It is haunting how he speaks to this, the lack of emotion, which he admits to even that he has no emotions. He didn't. He talks about that of like, you know, that's his autism, but I don't know.

1:00:27 Well, he, he says that. He says that he wasn't angry. No, he wasn't. We'll, we'll get to all of this. But he was. Yeah, absolutely. Those interviews show he was emotionless, absolutely remorseless. Absolutely. He had 0 empathy for what had happened to Stephanie or even the fact that this impacted so many different people. Yeah. His words were I think I went a little nuts. I just could not stop myself. OK, So what he says happened is on that day he says that he had gone to the school to empty the bins and to do a little bit of cleaning.

1:01:04 Yeah. Now he was not meant to be there at all. Like so his employment was not actually directly to the school. There was a contract out by the department to for the cleaning and he was employed by a separate company and there was no need for him to have keys to this school. At all, I believe that his contracted hours were like before school, like 6 till 8:00 AM or something. He would come and do something and then he was allowed to then be on site after that as well. So I think the latest that he was, you know, contracted to be at school was until, like 7:00 or 8:00 PM, something like that, during the day, Monday to Friday only.

1:01:41 Yeah. There was no need for him to be there on the weekends. There was no need to be for him to be there on Easter Sunday, you know. But, you know, he was. Yeah. So what he says is that he saw Stephanie about to leave. So obviously he'd seen that she was there. Yeah. He saw that she was about to leave and she'd said, see you later, have a nice Easter. And with that, he grabbed her. So he explains in great detail which hand was where. And he put a hand over her mouth and the other hand around her waist to pull her in.

1:02:12 He dragged her into a store room that used to be a photography dark room, so it didn't have any windows. And it was sort of in an area of the school that was sort of quite secluded. Yeah, there were. There was another teacher who had come to the school that afternoon, so she arrived at the school and when she arrived there, she was just dropping something off. I believe she was there for a little bit of time, though, because when she got there she saw Stephanie's car and the white car, the white van in the car park.

1:02:45 She then went about her about her thing. She said she did hear something that sounded like dragging, but she knew that the cleaner was there. So assume the cleaner was dragging something around as you said, like you said, exactly that. You, you, you explain those things away. Of course you do. Yep. She then when she left, Stephanie's car was no longer in the car park, but the white van was. So she was like, oh, Stephanie's gone, Stephanie's gone. It's all good, right? We're all sort of. Just been doing something in her classroom.

1:03:12 Yep, Yep. Anyone would explain it away in that way. Yeah. What was actually going on at that time was that Vincent had dragged Stephanie into this storeroom. He had beaten her to death and also stabbed her. He had punched her 30 to 40 times in the head. Oh my God. After doing that, he then sexually assaulted her. After sexually assaulting her, he realized that maybe she's not dead. Yep, he took out his knife and slit her throat. Just stabbed her in the note Next. Sorry, I should say. Yeah, just to make sure.

1:03:48 Just to make sure that she's actually dead. Dead. After he did that, he felt a bit hungry. Yeah. So he got in his car. No. Oh, in her car. Stephanie's car. Sorry, he did. Oh no, he did. No, he did. Yep. He went home and had a sandwich and a coffee. With his mum, Yep, and his brother, Yep, his older brother. Came home, I came back to the school and started cleaning up. In doing so, he placed Stephanie's body in the boot of her own car. He then went back into the storeroom and cleaned it all up. He then drove Stephanie's car back to his mom's place.

1:04:33 Parked it at the back shed. Yep, Yep. Until the early hours of the morning in which he drove to the National Park. And well overnight I believe he transferred her body to his car. So he must have gone back to the school at some point and collected his own car. He did. Sorry. You're absolutely right. And then he's. Transferred the body into his car and then the next morning driven her car to where it was eventually found. Drove it there, left it there, dropped it in the in, dropped the laptop in the in the irrigation ditch.

1:05:05 He's then walked home from there. So as we say, it was only sort of 11 K out of town, but he's then walked that distance back, back home again in her body. And so yeah, then taken his car and driven IT70K out of town to where he's eventually dumped the body. He then used petrol to ignite her body and the area around her body. The way he describes that I find particularly off putting. So the cops are asking specific questions around well, how did you light it? What did you did you use a match? Did you, you know, sort of thing.

1:05:38 And he the way he clarifies, you know, his response and things. I just that was that's really chilling. It's so I can't even describe it. It's, it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. I reckon one of the way he just sort of Oh no, no, I'll do it like this. Yeah. And then the the police officer interview, the detective interviewing him said do you, did you stand there and watch it? And he's like, no, as soon as it was the light, I just sort of like left. I knew what was going to happen. Yeah. I thought I'll watch for a minute maybe, yeah.

1:06:09 But then yeah, then just went, it's so detached, it's creepy. So detached. Oh, sorry, I actually forgot one thing. Oh, yeah? So when he saw that she was at the school, this was before. Yeah. He actually went home and got what he calls his rape kit. Yeah. Yeah. Which included Viagra, handcuffs, the knife, cleaning products. The police, when they looked on his computer, found a Google history with terms like bride rape. So apparently he did this car on the way like he got back from getting his rape kit.

1:06:52 Necrophilia Bride raped with wedding gown. The police asked him why he kept her bra, and he said it's because it was mostly clean. I don't really know. I guess it was a trophy, a keepsake, they said, Did you wash it? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I chucked it in the machine, in the washing machine. And then he's just like, left it on the floor of his bedroom. It's fucking weird. It's. Really bizarre. The other thing he does they then ask him about is because obviously Bumby knows to him they found the body and so they're saying to him like, and what about her engagement ring and her other jewelry?

1:07:30 Where's that? And he he sort of, he can see him change a little bit in this, in this questioning. Definitely. And he goes, Oh no, no, I can't remember. No, I think I took them off her at the school. No, no, I did that when she was in the car at home. Oh, and he changed his story a number of times and kind of because he can't get it to fit. And then he's like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, I don't want to happen. I just can't remember in all of that like what? Although he remembers in meticulous detail all the other.

1:07:56 The other sheet, like literally meticulous detail where his hands were where, you know, like, almost enjoying telling them, like kind of stuff. Whereas this pit, he just kind of goes, yeah, yeah, I don't remember. Yeah. When I took those off her, turns out he took those off her and he mailed them to his identical brother in South Australia. His brother Marcus received that those goods and he then disposed of them. Now he knew at this point what was being sent to him and what why he needed to get rid of them that that was proven in in all of this.

1:08:32 So he ended up getting $750 for he pawned them at a pawn shop. And yeah, I mean just. It's disgusting. So, so awful. It was her engagement ring and then also ring. Yeah, a graduation ring her mum and dad had bought her when she graduated from university. Yeah. He also mailed Marcus her driver's license. So Marcus burnt that. Yes. As you said, he pawned the jewellery and unfortunately, the person who bought the jewellery melted it down and sold it for the the precious metal. Yeah. And so there is no way the family could ever get, it's not like they could go to the pawn shop and buy them.

1:09:15 They'd already been bought and melted down. Oh, it's just, it's just awful. That is awful, I feel. Actually, I thought that maybe Aaron had got those things. Back. No, he didn't. He didn't. Marcus was charged with being an accessory after the fact of murder and he was sentenced to 15 months in prison. People say that that was woefully inadequate and so he was actually extradited to NSW for that charge and for his imprisonment. When he was released from prison he went back to live with his mum in Leighton and they were literally, I think they lasted 2 days.

1:09:54 Who thought they had? To move that was a good way to go. I just that I he what the fact that he's he's identical and I mean identical, but they are would have just been so upsetting to people to see him around town. Yeah, how dare they. How dare they I? Really was fuming when I read that. Yeah. I just find that so thoughtless. No matter because he tries to make out. When he came out of jail, he was like, oh, I have nothing to do with my brother. I don't want anything to do with him. His his his line is that, yeah, what he did was horrible and doesn't agree with it.

1:10:29 I don't care. Then use your brain and don't go moving back into that town. I can't. Yeah. What the fuck. However, he's also a sack of shit. Yeah. So just last year, end of last year in November, there was a manhunt out for him after a physical abuse. Abuse of it wasn't. I can't find out whether it was male or female that the abuse occurred against, but yeah he he's obviously also a piece of shit with. Did this happen in Tasmania? Because isn't he living with his dad in Tassie at the moment? Must have, yeah.

1:11:04 Must have, yeah. Yeah. Oh God, yes. Absolutely horrific, yeah. So obviously, yeah, as we say, Vincent does confess with a few holes in his story. Well, he never admits to the sexual assault. No, he won't admit to that completely. No, I just, he talked about the fact that he did hit her and that he stabbed her, but he never went anywhere near talking about he wouldn't have that, that he sexually assaulted her. He had scratches all over his face, so Stephanie was definitely fighting for her life, which.

1:11:37 Good. Oh. It's just horrible. That's horrible. Yeah, No. So obviously he's charged with her murder, but and also the sexual assault. Aggravated sexual. Sexual assault, he is charged with both because they do have evidence of that, so that's also put onto him as well. Why do you think he admitted to the murder but not to the sexual assault? Yeah, there's got to be something in this. Psychologically for him, in terms of what? He he perceives as being worse than the other or being able to be accepted.

1:12:11 But I, I don't know, I mean, rape worse than murder, but I yeah, like he was just free. Fucking awful. The worst. Yeah, the worst. But he was freely admitting to the killing like he was. Just a bit, yeah. There's some sort of shame around the site, the sexuality of it. But why? Who knows? I mean, there's got to be something in his past that's created this site. To be honest, I think there's. In the investigation of all this as well, and I think this is noteworthy. When they were looking into all of these photos of these young girls, in particular this 12 year old school girl, they obviously they interviewed him about that.

1:12:48 They asked him about that. But he he had, he was meticulous in his stalking of these women. So he was documenting everything. So he documented about this 12 year old girl. There was an entry that was like 1540 at home, alone time to abduct. A long enough time to. Yeah, enough time to abduct or something. I'm like fucking hell. He so he. Could have easily been that. Girl, this is it. Stephanie could have been this girl. Yeah, you will not convince me of anything to say that he decided in that he was.

1:13:22 Going to be serial killer. Yeah, as he put it, you know, I just went a little nuts and, you know, I couldn't stop myself in the moment. No, sorry. No. He's been looking for a scenario where he can enact this. And you know, I really, I look at like the fact that he had photos of other women on his camera that he was stalking and yet not Stephanie. But I do think it was a bit opportunistic in that he he I think he followed her to the school. I think he saw her doing that and was like, oh, there's going to be no one else there.

1:13:51 I can, you know, use this to my advantage. But that doesn't that doesn't mean there's not pre planning. Like there was definite pre planning. I mean the rape kit that he had. So like. Exactly. And he ordered all of that stuff, and he called handcuffs. Like, I mean, that's what he called it. He'd ordered the handcuffs and the knife from like, yeah, I don't know. If it wasn't Amazon, I don't even know. Maybe it was. I don't know. But he'd ordered that stuff. So he had 100% premeditated it. Yeah. Whether it was maybe not premeditated murdering Stephanie.

1:14:19 No, that's someone, but someone. This was something he was planning to do. He was waiting. For a moment, he would have done this again. Absolutely, Absolutely. Oh God, yeah. I think that's the thing. We, you know, we have to understand that these people that'll like think like this will do this multiple times. This is not a one off. The police asked him in his interview, why did why did you do this? And he said, oh, I think I've got mental problems. Yeah. Just keep going back to that. Yeah. Yeah.

1:14:49 So he was recognizing it in himself that it was wrong on some level, but not enough to stop. Himself. Yeah. So in October of 2016, Justice Robert Holm sentenced Vincent to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Yeah, that was for the the murder. The murder, he said there's and then he got. 15. 15 for the aggregated rape, yeah. With no parole or no, you know, yeah, that that just doesn't. No minimum. No minimum. That well, that he said there's no, there's no need to put there's, it would be moot basically.

1:15:26 Yeah, yeah. He said that the crime fell into the worst category of murder and that his lack of remorse and extreme violence of the attack and the calculated nature of the cover up led to led to the sentence. It's absolutely. It's just absolutely horrific. Yeah. I think at least the fact that he pled guilty meant that a trial didn't have to happen. Yeah. Maybe that's a slightly saving grace for her family. I'm not really sure. His defense lawyers really laid on thick the fact that he was diagnosed ISD and then the court, which thankfully they ruled that that did not reduce culpability whatsoever.

1:16:13 Because they had their own psychological assessments done, and those psychological assessments said that he was a psychopath. Absolutely. And he was unable to be rehabilitated. Yeah, thank God they did that. Oh. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh God, yeah. They called his actions one of the worst categories of murder. Yeah, absolutely it is. Yeah. It's just horrific. Absolutely horrific. So now I guess what happened after? Yep, this poor town. I mean, God, they were they have really did take this. So like bad, like it wasn't good.

1:16:51 They they, they had a beautiful memorial, like sort of spot where they at the school and they were looking for etcetera. There was people gathered there. The town were shocked like big time by this because they are such a small community that for one of their own to be taken like that and and that someone in their own community could perform that on someone who lived in the local community. It just seems so oh God, so so shit. So. Shit, so shit. Her family and Aaron, I mean, he's her family. Yeah, they we're really open to the community that Stephanie lived in.

1:17:32 And so much so that on the day that was supposed to be their wedding, they invited the the town to the local park and they released yellow. Everyone came dressed in yellow, which was Stephanie's favorite colour. And they released yellow balloons in in her memory on what should have been the best day of her life. Yeah, because. She was so looking forward. To that day, looking forward to getting married. A lot of people had travelled from overseas, Interstate and from, you know, far away given that Leighton was such a small town, you know, supposedly for her wedding, but it ended up they were there for her funeral, which is just horrible.

1:18:09 Absolutely. Stephanie's family and her fiance Aaron launched a civil suit against the NSW Department of Education for more stringent screening processes for non teaching staff and contractors of schools like cleaners, maintenance workers, any anyone, anyone who's coming on a school premises. The matter was settled confidentially. So we don't know how that was settled or what kind of monetary, you know, exchange there was for that. But it did prompt a review of how background information is shared across borders within Australia.

1:18:46 Because what came to pass was that in Tasmania, Vincent actually did have charges for that assault I believe. And obviously when he was employed in to the NSW Department of Education through this contractor, they didn't know that. And the fact that he even as a 12 year old attacked a teacher, he to me that's someone who then has had a bad experience within school environment psychologically. That's then someone who could perform those acts again as an adult against a teacher like. And I wonder whether there is something in a bit more in that of whether he had some sort of disdain for teachers and why then it became a teacher that he targeted.

1:19:30 That's interesting. I actually hadn't thought about that, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, schools can be really great places for people. They can be really shit places for people. And if you've had a bad experience and you also have, you know, mental health and psychological issues. Going on. That's maybe not the best place for you to work. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So if if nothing else, I guess that that kind of came of it. After the sentencing, Stephanie's family came out to say that they did a press conference just out the front of the courthouse and they pretty much said we.

1:20:07 You know, we really thank everybody for their support. We thank we're, we're so glad to be able to get Stephanie's, you know, all of the good things about her out there and the fact that we've had all of this support, but we're actually not going to be doing any more interviews. We are we're sort of done. We need to now privately grieve and figure out how to live life. Let the music back in, I said. That's it now. He was sentenced the day before her 28th birthday, I believe it was. And So what they asked was that everyone had a mince slice and a cup of tea at 3:00 PM.

1:20:40 Yeah, at 3:00 PM, the following date in her memory and in her honour. I did that last night. Before we did this, I had a tea. Well, I read over my notes and I meant slice because I just felt like that was respectful. Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah. I think if you're going to honour the memory of people like that, it's thinking about them in the way that they would wanna be remembered. And I'm sure, you know, she would wanna be remembered as the the magnificent human being that she was. Yeah. I feel really sad that she never got to have children of her own.

1:21:12 Yeah. And have that wedding that she was so looking forward to. Off with Aaron, yeah. Aaron moved to Europe after this because he just needed to get away and and have a bit of space and while he was over there he actually met I believe an Australian woman by. The name of or haven't got her name. It was like 5 years after her her death though. So like there was a big gap, you know, ends in like between. Of course it. Took him time but he's met someone who's. Really special to him is her name. No, that rings about.

1:21:40 I didn't write it down though. They they are now married and they have a daughter and. She looks like Stephanie. She. Yeah, she does. She does look like not the daughter. The other one. They do look very similar, but I'm glad that he was able to find love again. I know that, Stephanie. Nothing for him. Oh, definitely. Nothing would will ever erase what he and Stephanie had. And I'm just glad that he was able to to find love and find support. Yeah, in the way that he has. Absolutely. Unfortunately, that's not the end of the tragedy for this family, though not which is.

1:22:14 This is awful. Yeah, I believe it was about a year. After a year. Or a year after her death. Year after the sentence. No sentence sentencing, wasn't it? Yeah, a freak accident. Unfortunately, her dad was killed by a tree that fell on him. Which on their property. Yeah, it's just that's awful. I mean as. If a family hasn't been through enough tragedy as it is. For a bit of Strat twice. I mean, all I can say of that is that they'll be together, you know, and that that's, that's the only comforting thing I think you can have from that, that her and her dad will have each other together.

1:22:48 But that's just too soon and too awful for the family. How can I don't even know how her mum would cope, how her mum would cope with that? No. To lose Stephanie in that way and then to lose her husband in that way. Fuck. Oh my God. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, God, there's she, she's been through the ring up. I mean, no, no one deserves all that tragedy in their life, God. Not at. All but we're thinking of them. That's potential. And that's. I think all we can do from a distance is hope that she knows that people are.

1:23:19 Yeah, thinking of them and and that she's she, she's got this. Absolutely. Because Oh my God, I I can't even imagine being the family of someone whose daughter, you know, friend, sister disappears and that this is then what you find out about. I know it's just when I was started researching this and I found that Aaron had spent that afternoon and evening like he'd cancelled those dinner plans, like he actually rang to cancel the booking and stuff. So I'm like, he knew she wasn't going to be home.

1:23:55 Why didn't he go to the police earlier? But I actually do. When I stop and think about it, I do actually get it because. You'd think like, you know, I'm just being silly, so I'm just going to walk through the door. And then I'll have been to the police and I'm like that idiot, yeah. And she's going to come home with, like, such an explanation as to why this has occurred because he knew her so well. Yeah. Like, they it was she. He wasn't concerned in that she was doing something like disappearing in cold feet for the wedding.

1:24:24 No, you know. That would have not have been what he would have thought at all because that's not who she was. So I guess in his mind, he's like, oh, she's gonna rock in here and we're gonna have the biggest laugh eventually about whatever has happened. Or I'll be shitty because she should have let me know where she was, but you know. But she's gonna have. There's gonna be a reason. Yeah, I understand. I can too. I can too. Convincing yourself, think about it of like, why this is not like you feel like an idiot of like going like, why would I?

1:24:50 How many people do I alert about this when she's just gonna walk through the door in a minute? Yeah. Exactly. Oh God, and that's all and that's the thing. I'm sure he beats himself up over like you know, not that I don't think him. You know it wouldn't to the police any it wouldn't have made any he. Wasn't even in Leighton when she was murdered, he was still travelling home so you know there's nothing he could have done and I really hope he doesn't blame himself. No, not at all. I mean, you know, you can do the whole like, you know, oh, what if I'd said I wouldn't go to that party, she just would have still would have gone to work that day, you know, like so him not even being in town, I wouldn't have.

1:25:26 Made a difference. Made a difference whether he was there or not because she would have still gone and done because of who she was as a person in her core. She was a dedicated teacher and didn't want to leave her students high and dry while she was having a honeymoon. She would have gone to that school. She would have gone on her own. That's what would have happened. And you should be able to go and do into your workplace. And be safe. And be safe and do those things. I mean, as I say, I've done it a million times over myself.

1:25:52 And you are, you're fine. Like it's, you know, you worry about every noise, but whatever. And she would have done the same thing and gone like, yeah, I'm being silly at noises or whatever. Or this other person wandering around. Well, he's meant to be here. Yeah. Wasn't meant to be there, but she was. She had every right to think that he was allowed to be. There. Oh for sure. There's no reason why she would request any different. Of a cleaner wandering around? No, not at all. That's God. That's normal.

1:26:14 Yeah. Especially in the school holidays. You go, they come in and get jobs done they can't do when the students are here. That's you. Know they do a deeper clean they might be like doing. Carpet. Yeah, you always do the carpet steam cleaning holidays or whatever. Yeah, but there's always cleaners floating around during the holidays. More so she wouldn't have thought anything of it. It's not on her. It's not on him. It's all it's on. It's on Vincent. That's it. And he's fucked up brother as well.

1:26:35 Yeah. His dad has also come out and spoken about him being in jail and they have nothing to do with him, that they do have massive issue with what he did. So I guess that's one thing, but I don't know. There's a responsibility there with I think, I think the family. I do think also his education as well, that at times where there could have been points where this he could have been intervened with these behaviours. He was clearly someone who had issues. The fact that at 7 years of age he fantasized about killing someone.

1:27:06 And the fact that they knew that like that's that had come out during certain psychological assessments around, I mean, I think I question that the ISD diagnosis. I somewhat question. I'm not saying it's not there, but I just wonder whether it's just misdiagnosed, you know, kind of thing. And that with certain traits overlapping with others you know, with other traits of. Others do you mean with like a personality disorder or something like? That Yeah, yeah. I sort of feel like, you know, yeah, you say like the social, the social anxiety and all those sorts of things that he had could be, you know, come under an ASD diagnosis, but they could also come under a psychopath's diagnosis.

1:27:42 So I think that they've. Been there's crossover for sure. Yeah. And as I said, two things can be true at once. Yeah, you could have both. I'm not saying that's not, but I do think that it's missed what else was going on. Sure. Because a kid who behaves the way he did and strangling somebody at the age of 12, we have to consider what's going on here to create that at this like to what what was around what was going on I. Wonder this behavioral school that he went to. I wonder if there were interventions there.

1:28:13 This is the thing, you got to wonder what interventions there were in place. Yeah, I couldn't find what the school was or anything like that because I was, I was interested. I'm like, what is a behavioral school and what happens there? Like because yeah, I get it. They're. Do they still exist? Yeah, there are kids who fall outside of the scope of mainstream schooling. I understand that. But what is the Department of Education doing for them? How are they supporting them? How are they managing them?

1:28:42 And where does that responsibility lie as well? I mean, yeah, it's, it's a tough one because, I mean, obviously eventually you age out of school, don't you? And and he was, he was in his, how old was he? He was 20 something at the time of this. Yeah. So. Looks a lot older than 24 but. Oh yeah, he does. And his, he and his brother, they look. I mean, obviously they're identical. They just say they look. Two years younger than than Stephanie, but to be honest, he looks far older. Than 10 years older.

1:29:09 Easy, easy. Yeah. He was also rejected from joining the Army, Yeah, which I find interesting again, that there's another point of intervention there of like, not saying the Army's in responsible for it, but surely if there's great red flags on someone being rejected from the Army. Well, he failed. Directions in a government sense of like going, hey, this person didn't get in because of these factors. It was the psychological assessment he failed, but I would imagine a lot of people would fail for a lot of different reasons.

1:29:39 Totally but surely the reasons why he failed. Do you think that the Army then had a duty of care to follow that through? Well, maybe not follow through entirely, but but at least redirect refer on. I do think that if as a psychologist, you know, even under that umbrella. Yep. Going hang on a minute this. Yeah, I can see why he wants to join the army. I mean he's, he's Vincent's own description of that is that he didn't know what to do with himself and what he fitted into and he decided the army could be a place where he could find discipline et.

1:30:09 Cetera. He also found it really hard to get a job, yes, because he didn't interview. Well, no. And he wasn't personable. He was weird. Yeah. And so, yeah, the job that he got, as we spoke about before, it was a five week contract originally because they just they desperately apparently really needed someone quick smart. Yeah. And then I think he must have been doing an OK job because they they sort of continued that contract on then. Yeah. But that was the only job he could find in around the town.

1:30:39 And he had tried multiple things even in towns nearby and he couldn't gain employment so. We should also say too he was flagged. I don't know if anyone people spoke about this after the fact, I don't know what reports are made at the time, but he was known to be hovering around the girls toilets. I know. And that that's what make like was it not reported until after this? Because, I mean, I guess there's a reasonable reason that a cleaner would be in a toilet. Right. Yeah. You would sort of be like, OK, well, like he's in here to clean something.

1:31:09 Or, you know, he's waiting out the front till we finish to come in or, yeah, to clean something. But he wasn't even meant to be at the school. At that time that. Time which that's not on students or teachers to know that, No, but someone at that school had to have known what the contract was and why. What was he doing there? At my work, we have male cleaners and they are, you know, the, the protocol is they knock on the door and if anyone says yes, we're in here or whatever, or they get a female to go and check and see if there's anyone in the toilet.

1:31:38 If there's not, they'll go in and clean. They put their sign up, they go in and clean. If there is, they respectfully wait out until everyone's finished and out of there and then they go in and clean. Like that should be the process at any school, you know that that's just the way it should be. In fact, you know, with the cleanest toilets in every any high school ever because they're always gross. Like was. He was he actually cleaning though? Probably not. He was just lurking around. And what? And we're stalking, let's call it what it really was.

1:32:11 Yeah. Like, there's all these. I just feel like there was points of intervention that were overlooked. I think as a society, we need to get better at calling the stuff out. I know that means put people in awkward positions of like, feeling like, I mean, because you're innocent till proven guilty, but you also just need to. I think things should be flagged more. Yeah. And more things could be put in place at times at intervention points. Yep. To avoid things. I think you're right. It's, it's really hard though, where responsibility lies at the end of the day.

1:32:42 But you're right, he had there were multiple points here where things could have could have been different. I don't think he would have changed no matter what. Intervention never happened, no, in terms of his psychological state. But at least we could have avoided him being in a situation like working in that scenario where he could be alone with somebody. He, you know, he needed more eyes over him and he needed more happening in the background. Agreed. Yeah. May Stephanie's memory live on. I mean, I feel like we talked about in a Patreon episode recently about cases that we don't that come to our mind frequently or things that we cases that we think about a lot.

1:33:27 And yeah, when I was researching this, I'm like, Oh yeah, this is actually one of them for me. I didn't mention it at the time. Yeah, I. Do Maybe not as frequently as the ones that I mentioned in our Patreon episode, but this is one that I do think about from time to time. Oh, definitely. This one. This one hit me when it happened. It really hit me hard because, yeah, being at the time, I was actually on mat leave with my first and I remember at the time going, holy fuck, that could be any one of my friends working in schools because we've all done it.

1:33:56 We've all been in schools and those scenarios on our own. I know now there are many more checks in balance these days in terms of signing in and everyone knowing where you are and who's who's there. Working with children's checks and that kind of thing as well, that might bring up they might. Now start doing something though, though they're pretty much in the past have been like not worth the paper they're written on as much as like I think it would stop someone who thought something might get flagged by it.

1:34:18 Applying for a job like that and then requiring one? Yeah, maybe. But police? Checks, checks if nothing else. Like if if this contractor had just done a police check, they would have known that he'd been arrested for an assault, like an aggravated assault. If it's see a police check's very different to working with children's check in the past. Yeah. So they're now changed, but yeah, so in the past those things wouldn't have flagged. But I mean, not that the person applying for one would have known that at the time, yes.

1:34:44 So if you did have things in your past, yes. But then there's always those people who haven't yet done it and can get a working with children's checks it's, you know, kind of thing. So it's not to say that that is I. Haven't been caught I. Haven't been caught yet, You know, that's and that's a whole other issue. That's a whole other issue. Yeah, absolutely. But, yeah, you'd hope that anyone now in those situations has those checks. But, you know, working with children's check isn't necessarily going to stop you from having someone who around adults.

1:35:11 That's it, you know? Yeah. That's it. Because technically, I guess he shouldn't have ever been there when a student was there. That's right. Yeah. So yeah. So maybe, yeah, I don't know, it's, it's so complex. It really is really complex. It really is. All right, Well, thank you everybody for joining us again this week. Yeah, we look forward to bringing you another episode next week. As always, you can hit us up on the socials. We love engagement over there. You can message us on Instagram, Facebook, through Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

1:35:44 Leave us a review if that's something that you feel compelled to do. That really helps get our podcast out to more and more people, and we really appreciate your support. Should we do a little teaser of what's to come soon that we've been working or you've been working on, I should say? We can't. Yes. OK, we're right. A little teaser. A little teaser. How much?

1:36:11 That's all I'm gonna say for now. We may have found a way. We. May have found a way. I'm pretty sure we have, but stay tuned. More to come. More to come, yeah. Stay curious, crying besties. Bye.