Episode 79 - The Murdaugh Family: Part 2 of 2

0:15 Hello for another week to Crime Besties. Thanks for joining us again. How is everyone? I hope everyone's doing well. How are you, Meg? I'm good. How are you doing? I'm all right. I'm doing all right. Yeah, we'll. Get through this, yeah. We're on Part 2 of two of the Murdoch murders. My God, this story is crazy. As we said last week. I think we said the word bat shit crazy last week a few times. Yeah, actually, really is. I think this week particularly like we're getting into real deep of it of the Murdoch family and it all unravelling, I guess.

0:49 Oh, not all of it. I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say all of it. Yeah, that, you know, parts of it are unravelling for them and that it becoming a little bit more God, yeah, more insane. I was talking to my dad during the week and he didn't know anything of this, which is pretty, pretty typical for him. Mm hmm. And he's like, I just actually can't even fathom what's coming next. I'm like, strap in. 100%. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. We've had a few comments over the week with a couple of people saying like they've they knew about this but didn't know all the back story to it.

1:22 So it's, it's pretty cool to see that you know some people. I thought everyone knew this one in and out. You know, it's kind of the a big one, as we were saying last week on Netflix. But there's definitely people who have only heard surface stuff around. And I think also the thing with the Netflix documentary, it's pretty comprehensive, but it's certainly not totally like it's not absolutely everything there is tonight, no. Because I have to say there's one HBO one yes, on HBO X and I actually found found that that was more meet in depth and informative.

1:48 Yeah, and there's a couple of other well, there's the podcast Mandy mum. Yeah, you're gonna. It's really good. And yeah, she's a really great investigative journalist who I sort of broke this a bit more and she's the one who's in Like there's a the character of her in that drama series. Yeah, she's. Amazing, though, she's so she, was she like New York Times journalist or something? Would that feel like Yeah and. Yeah, she was. And but she covered all the South for the New York Times. Yeah. And yeah, she's, she was just on top of everything.

2:19 She knows every key detail about this case. Yeah. And so much so that she actually even got to go with the jury to the house in Moselle and look around. And. Yeah. So she's got a real, real insight into it. I found. I found her, even her written stuff really compelling. Yeah. To, to in terms of research for this week, yes, it was a good one. Definitely before we get into the case. So we've obviously got lots of things to talk about. I've actually got a couple of recommendations this week. So I have had a little bit of extra time this week to do a few things.

2:52 And so it's meant that I was like looking for shows to watch and I was listening to some different podcasts. And I don't know if I've mentioned this one yet, but Hedley Thomas's new podcast called Sick to Death. It is based on a book that he wrote of the same name and it's sent, I think it was, this happened around 2010, so it was quite a long time ago, but it's in relation to a doctor up in Queensland. He was an international doctor in Bundaberg. His name is Jayant Patel and he was actually employed to the Queensland medical system as a surgeon.

3:30 And it turned out that he actually didn't have the right qualifications. He endangered people's lives. They, I think I actually it hasn't come to its the podcast hasn't come to its conclusion yet. But what they're saying and where I'm up to is that apparently he's implicated in like roughly or more than 20 deaths that were unnecessary for patients. He left patients sort of maimed as a real sort of Australian doctor to death. He's in, he's, I believe he's Indian, lived in trained in America. And then was this like he did lots of not great things over there.

4:09 He wasn't allowed to work in certain States and then he's come over to Australia to work and he performed surgeries that he wasn't even trained or qualified to do in a hospital that wasn't even accredited to do them. Like it's a real expose as well into the healthcare system and, you know, obviously now off the back of this and now that it all, you know, it's all come out that there's far more stringent processes. But it really highlights like back in the day that, you know, rural, semi rural Queensland that was so desperate for surgeons and so desperate for medical care that, yeah, it kind of just this guy said he was a superstar and they believed him and they felt lucky to have him.

4:50 So really interesting story if you want to get into that. It's called Sick to Death. And yeah, I mean, Hedley Thomas is such an amazing investigative reporter, so I always love his stuff. Yeah. And then the other thing. Oh, this just swoon. OK, so. Totally different, like. Thank you. Yeah. This one's not crimey at all, really. Love Story, The John F Kennedy and Carolyn Bessette. I keep seeing it pop up. On Disney Plus, yeah, I. Think I'm going to watch that. So the first 4 episodes are out so far and then I think every week they're releasing the final episode.

5:27 So they dumped all they dumped 4 episodes 1st and now every now it's weekly till I don't know how many there are. Yeah, right. But Oh my God, yes. Oh, just I just Carolyn Bessette. I remember back in that she is just all class. She never, I think in her whole time of being with JFK Junior, she only ever did, I think, maybe one interview. Yeah. And so she's sort of like a bit of an enigma. No one really knew her. And yet she was such an icon in so many ways. And I mean, I just love the Kennedys. And it's fascinating, so fascinating.

6:07 It's so incredibly fascinating, so highly from what I've seen. I've watched the 4 episodes that have come out so far, but I highly, highly, highly recommend it. You have to get on it. You have to get on it. Because, you know, you recommended The Pit to me right now I have only watched one episode. I have to admit I haven't. Like I've watched one and then I've been to go back to it because. You've had a busy week, yeah? It's been busy, busy. But I have to agree with you about Noah. Noah Wiley. Yeah.

6:34 I don't know what it is. It's got to be with the maturity or something of him. He has a completely different air about him to what he had back in the day of ERI. Think his character in ER was he was like a bit of a cowboy, but he was also a bit of a cowboy. Like sortie shit didn't stink and you know, he was kind of a bit unlikeable in some ways. But then there were obviously but. Even daring times if it's the the the. Facial hair. Stuff or just because I'm. Did I, I don't know if I mentioned this when I told you about the pit, but there's all these all these like women on TikTok posting like thirst videos of Doctor Robbie when he's like hand sanitizing.

7:15 And so he'll go in hand sanitizer and they're like swooning over the way he uses the hand. Oh, no. But when you watch it then so then you go and watch it and you're like, oh, no, yeah, no, that is really fucking sexy. OK, are. You using hand? Oh, just wait until you get into. It OK. I love how you just know that it's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, I actually will. I know you will. I know you're going to get into this. I yes. So it's it's just fucking hilarious. That is so funny, but it's also just so I love the show We're up to now week to week as well with that.

7:49 So Season 2, yeah. Season 2, yeah. No, I've yeah, watched the first one. I really enjoyed it. Really. I'm like, I want, I want to watch this, but I want to give it my attention. Yeah. And so I'm kind of like, run, I'm gonna just put that aside from moment because until I can actually watch an episode with full focus. Yeah, and I was listening to a podcast this week. I think it was Mama Mia Out Loud, and it might have been last week, actually. Now we're talking about how TV shows these days, they need to really If you know a TV show is good if you watch it without having your phone in your.

8:19 Hands not playing like something on my phone at the same time, which is so. So true. So it's really hard to produce a show these days where the screen that you're watching. Yeah, as in, like the show is your secondary screen, your primary screen's in front of you, it being your phone or your iPad or whatever. Yeah. And the pit for me is one this Carolyn, the love story, John F Kennedy, Carolyn Bessette. Like no, no phone, like a. 100% my only other way around that is by this gonna sound so stupid.

8:50 Maybe outing myself with something I don't know, but like, and if it's got subtitles and I'm not talking the fact that like they spill, they're speaking English, right? But if there's subtitles, I need to read them to be able to hear what they're saying. So I don't know what that is, but it makes it easier to, I don't know, watch. Yep, Yep. OK, OK. Well then because then you're having to concentrate on reading as well, so you can't look at your phone. Yeah, yeah, OK. Because OK, that's fair. That's the one that.

9:18 You sent me to watch one of the Korean ones. Yep. And it's not, it's not in English, it's in Korean and it's subtitled. Yeah, Yeah. So. There is a dubbed version. Is there I might have to give that a go because OK again, maybe my weird brain but I convinced myself I speak Korean. I think because I then don't keep up with the subtitles and go and start focusing too much on listening to what they're saying. Oh mate, and I don't know how. To and then you're like hold on, wait, what? What just happened?

9:44 I'll. Be like, you know, seeing I'm just seeing to kind of go, wait, I actually don't speak Korean. I do need do need to read the subtitles and I can't read the English subtitles and hear the Korean. So I focus in on the Korean. Maybe you need to, maybe you need to like turn the volume down so that you're not listening and you're just reading. But the fabulous. Means I'm reading and then I don't like reading. Yeah, but you'd be reading anyway. Yeah, don't know. No, I'm not.

10:14 Yeah, I'm reading and listening in Korean. Completely like trick the brain, but obviously it's I'm tricking my own brain by convincing myself I speak Korean. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, OK. I'm. Glad you kind of go. Yeah, you understand. I kind of do get that. I actually kind of do. Get that. Yeah, OK, cool. I just yeah, I was watching. I can't do. I did like, I think at least one episode, if not two or three before I went, yeah, I'm not getting it because I don't speak Korean.

10:46 I love it. Oh God, it's amazing sometimes. Seriously. Seriously, where do my kids get it? From No, no, not at all. Not at all. And then do you have any? Have you like you, I know you've had a like a particularly busy week this week, so you probably haven't been really watching or I didn't have time for anything extra this week. No, nothing. Literally, yeah. Yeah, I've been either like on the computer doing like working out fucking videos for the podcast, yeah or yeah, or doing work stuff. So yeah, I haven't really watched anything other than in the background maths kind.

11:21 Of thing. OK, sorry. Some trade on. I haven't. I'm not a maths person. I've never really been into it or thing. Well, it's I feel like it probably would be. My, I really do think it would be. But The thing is, it's either yeah, you're either gonna be all in or you're not. That's right, gonna be all in you. Can't if you don't have the time for. It no, I don't normally, but one of my work colleagues is so into it, actually a couple of them and they're always talking about it and about the dinner parties and.

11:46 They feel like you. Watch. Well, it sounds batshit. This fucking is crazy. And then she was saying there's somebody on there like these Trump sympathisers. And I'm like, oh, see, that for me is like, Oh, no. I literally, I'm, I feel like I get to a point with this now where I'm like, they're putting people in danger. Yeah. And I'm watching more for the fact of like, I feel like I need to be protective of someone and I'm not watching because I enjoy the show. I'm like watching it to kind of go, I don't have to fucking stop this.

12:11 But then I know I'm part of the problem because I'm watching it, but at the same time, but I'm watching it because I'm like, I can't let this happen. It's a double edged sword. Yeah, Yeah. And the misogyny that comes through when they're talking about it, I'm like, why are we just, you know what? OK. This is another thing I watched actually recently, like within the last couple of weeks, I watched the Tyra Banks. So did I think? On Netflix. It's on Netflix. Yeah, I watched that. And it's like it's they're basically reviewing what happened on America's.

12:40 Did you watch it? I used to watch America's jets total and I fuck is when I watched saying yes, absolutely. But I loved it and I was so compelled to watch it. But I remember watching that thinking, oh fuck, I would never be that thin or I would. I could never be like that, feeling inadequate watching it right? When they bring out these plus size. Models you go who are who are like skinny as anything. She's normal size, yeah. But even I would even say like skinny, skinny, yeah, not even normal size.

13:06 Normal skinny I would say I'd put into like. Yeah, normal skinny supermodel skinny. Anyway, what I was thinking was, you know, they they're now looking back on America's Next Top Model in this with the 2026 lens and going, Oh my God, we could never produce a show like that. Now that producer, they couldn't it. Was I remember back then there was few, particularly there was the one where they changed their ethnicities. Oh yeah, I remember watching that going you can't do that. Yeah, blackface. I mean, come on, that.

13:36 That was ridiculous. I can't even believe they did that. I feel like we look back on this with a 2026 lens and we see how problematic it was. I know, I know. There there were aspects of it that we saw as problematic in the 20, in the 2. Thousand 2000 wasn't. It yeah. But I think, you know, we've learned a lot more. We've grown a lot more as a society and these things are incredibly problematic. And that's, you know that that is what it is. I think what got me the worst about all of it in the IT was through a time where Tara Banks got shamed on in magazines for wearing a swimsuit.

14:12 Remember when she came out on her talk show? Yeah, wearing the exact same swimsuit swimsuit. And she looked far slimmer than what they printed in the magazine. Like it was it was all bullshit. Yeah, kind of thing of like that. Well, I mean, and she was saying like, who cares if I look like what I look like, but don't make me look like something I'm not for your magazines kind of thing. Yeah. To sell magazines. And then she was, you know, fat shaming women on her own show with this, you know, Next Top Model that that got me even at the time.

14:38 Like how could she have not realised she was doing the exact same thing? I felt like in that in that Netflix documentary, yeah, I felt like she took no responsibility. She I I was, I actually can't stand her. No, I can't. Whereas all the other players in the game were all like, oh, we should not have said that. We should not have done that. I'm. Really sorry we did that. Yeah, he. Was yeah, but then I think about maths, right? Are we gonna in 1520 years time we're gonna look back on that and go what the fuck were we doing?

15:07 Although we see it now. Everyone's it's been called out. Now, but but why then why are they producing the shows? People people watch it exactly. It's vicious cycle, but that's the thing. So as a society, we need to be better and not pay heed. To want to see on math. Essentially. Is like these put inverted commas Absolutely experts. We I want to see them calling it out. I want people to watch maths and learn how to do relationships better. And if I guess on that show, the the experts really called them out.

15:39 And I mean, there's little bits here and there you get, but not a hell of a lot. Yeah. But if they called them out more, that's what I want to say. Agreed. I mean, not that I watch it, but yes, you're right. That would be a way that this, you know, quote, UN quote, social experiment can actually benefit somebody. Yes, as opposed to it just being fodder and drama and and damaging to people and also to the people who are watching. Like I think if young people are watching these relationships online, like on a show that's glorified, really, do they think that that's what a relationship is?

16:14 Because no. I think that's where I might, yeah. These people are watching it that I'd hope that someone could sit and watch this show and kind of go, oh, right. I shouldn't like say that to my girlfriend in the future or, or treat my my my male partner that way. Or, you know, learn how to, like talk to each other and, you know, be emotionally intelligent. Like, if we can learn those things from the show, OK, put your drama on there, but then do the corrective behaviour with the psychologists. Again, inverted comments.

16:44 Yeah. I think they all are trained. But yeah, it's just, yeah, it'll be, it's interesting. I hope that it, I hope it takes more of a turn if they're going to put these kind of people on there, then actually make them do the work because I think it's a bit, I know that we don't see everything in that, you know, how much time they sit on these couches and they talk to the experts. I'm sure that that's a a lengthy, lengthy process of a day of filming. And we only get what they want us to see. But like, we need to see the actual change.

17:17 Yeah, yeah. Watch this space, I guess, yeah. I just in depth conversation about maths. Maths though, it just seems a bit too high, high high level for it. Yeah, yeah, fair.

17:30 All right, let's get into some shout. Outs. Yes. Shout outs. Oh my gosh. This so we've got heaps I've got, I've got like a whole page I've got. So firstly, to our new Patreons, Azami Echo, Sherry Lee, Tara Sheehan and Aisha Steele. Thank you all for joining us. Very, very much appreciated. Yes, buy me a coffees. We've had Ewan Giles, who's a former Victoria Police detective who I know who listened to one of our episodes because it pertained to a case that he was somehow involved with. Yeah, and he said he really enjoyed our the way we did it and he he bought us some coffee.

18:05 So thank you very much. And then our next shout out is to Louise Milne and her husband. I love that she didn't give us a name for the husband. No, just husband and my husband. They are currently driving from Melbourne to WA across the Nullarbor and listening to Outback catalog. I think so. Sorry guys, but that, Louise said blow the coffee and get yourselves a wine. So, all right, I mean, if you insist, OK, fine. Stop breaking your arm, Louise. She also said to thank Stacey Newland for the reco. So thanks to Stacey as well for doing what we need people to do and spreading the word.

18:40 So thank you. I love Ewan's comment because it blows a comment we got out on Spotify out the. Woods. That's gonna mention to you, I say. Tell everyone what it was. It was so funny. Well, this is basically that we hadn't researched an episode enough. Yeah, but clearly we do if the if a police officer from an actual case is telling us that we've done, we did a good job. So there you go, Anthony. Yeah, but also, Anthony, do you really need to comment? Well, no. And the thing was that I love the thing, OK?

19:07 That particular case that they commented on too is divisive for some people. I get that. And I think what I read from the comment was, well, we just clearly have different views on it. Yeah. So how much research we did is your issue? It's just that we researched it and made a different. Opinion to what? Yeah. You have on it and that's fine. That's absolutely. Tell us why you have this other opinion rather than criticizing our research. That's right, because that is something I'll back every day.

19:29 100% I mean, we spend so much time putting this together, it really. Do we have We don't have all the knowledge. We admit that we don't. 100% we know we're never going to be able to research everything. We give ourselves a week a week research for an episode. You know, sometimes less. Sometimes less exactly, So we don't always have enough time. So there are often things when we hit record that I'm like, fuck, I forgot to look into that or I didn't have time. To and because we don't script, we sometimes do leave it missing.

19:55 We admit that we get to the end of it and kind of go we go and have our wine maybe rather than coffee. Yeah, after this and you know, and we say, you know, Oh my God, we didn't. Mention well, we didn't talk about this aspect of it, but you know what that's what makes our podcast our podcast. So thank you to everybody who loves it. Now the other thing is I had a

20:16 so the BFT that I go to. Oh yes, one of our my the guy who owns it put another member in touch with us. Yeah, who also has his own podcast, true crime podcast. Yeah, not his own true crime podcast called True Crime tradies. I actually haven't had a chance to have a full listen yet, but that's it's definitely on my list to have a I've. Checked out the socials. Yes, from like the. Link that from like where he was and I had a look at that. That's all. I've been able to have time to do this. Week, Yeah.

20:44 So they're definitely in their infancy in terms of yeah of getting their at. Least maybe 7 episodes or. Something was something like that, so good on them. Absolutely. We know where we were at at 7 episodes. So we we know that feeling, yeah. Absolutely. So yeah, if, if that's if you've got time to check out a new podcast, that might be one. Yeah. Let us know what you think because we actually haven't had a chance to go and do that ourselves yet. But thanks to John for getting in contact with us.

21:08 It's very. Do all the all the true crime podcasters hang out at your gym? Apparently, apparently, like, what are the chances? I mean, what are the chances? Hold on. There's like 50 million bloody true crime podcasts out there. So high chance, I guess. But yeah, no, it's, it's really cool that people are giving it a go. Absolutely. And then the last shout out I have is a massive, massive congratulations to one of our patreons, Roo, who had a baby during the week. So we've got our newest little bestie who's just been born.

21:40 And I hope our podcast can keep you company while you're up all hours breastfeeding or feeding and doing whatever it is that babies need overnight. The fun we. All know those we all have well you know those kids have all been there Meg and I have certainly been there so we. Hope that your baby maybe sleeps at points so you can listen to podcasts. Yeah, that's right. And what's more soothing to a new mum than with true crime podcast Overnight? Absolutely nothing. I'm sorry. I think I've, I think I've spoken about this before, but I listened to The Teacher's Pet when Lucas was born and that was what got me through them.

22:13 You know the overnight feed. Absolutely. So Yep, there's something to be said for that for sure. So congratulations. Congratulations, Roof. Fantastic. But yeah, in that newborn bubble, that's the best. Oh, I love it. I see little babies and I go, oh, and then you think, Oh no, I'm done. As we talk about our nine year. Olds. The frustration of a nine year old boy. Oh my God. Yeah, I forget. It's always I forget. Yep. Oh, kill me now. Yep, you know what, even annoyed? I actually didn't bring this up.

22:51 But what's also been annoying me is how slow Lucas is with everything. I think I said to you this morning, it took him bloody nearly an hour to get dressed and put his shoes on this morning, which was our little fight. But then even how long it takes him to get out of the car. On the kissing go. Yeah, and where are efficient kissing goers? I actually had to park today because I had to go into the school for something. God, I was like I was out of the car, around to the side. He hadn't even opened his door yet.

23:21 Wait, no. Like no hurry, don't worry, I've got all day to stand here and wait weirdly. Enough. The minute you say to them. Come on, hurry up. Yeah, or they can go slower I. Don't know if it's 100% they'll find a way. Like it's like, Oh yeah, but can you take my bag? I'm like, no. Life is so hard for a nine year old. So hard. When you're 9, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, kill me now, OK. All this to look forward to, Ruth. It's. So good. No, it's great. It's great. They're great, they're great. It's all good, it's all good.

23:52 Just enjoy what you've got right now. When they can't talk back, you can make them be as fast as you need them to be, say. Shit like no cap mom, no cap whatever. I don't even. I don't actually even know what that means. Somebody was lying, I think, but like, I don't know, it's cap and no cap and I don't know which way around it goes. Oh God, I'm gonna have to Google some shit. OK, let's get bra. Oh, bra. Yep, let hey bro, let's get into the episode, bro. All right, second episode. If you haven't listened to Part 1 of the Murdoch Family yeah podcast that we released last week, please go ahead and do so because, yeah, there is a lot of context that you will miss if you don't go back and listen to these in order.

24:35 So pretty much what we spoke about last week was this Murdoch family who are a very prominent family in South Carolina, Hampton County. They are involved in the legal fraternity there and have a lot of power and influence in that, in that respect. And there have there were a lot of things that happened that sort of have led us to the point where we're gonna talk about for today's episode. So that includes there were two very, you know, fairly suspicious deaths that were that had happened and then a boat crash that was also just absolutely horrific and resulted in the death of Mallory Beach.

25:15 So we're picking up from where we left off last week and we are actually now discussing what is to me and this just I it, it's unfathomable. To me, yeah. What happened here and how the process of this all unfolded? Yes. So we're talking about now we're in June, the 7th of June in 2021 we're at Moselle. Oh, just really quickly, sorry, before we get into it, last week Peter was listening to our podcast and he's like, you can do a southern accent because that's the whole reason we chose Piper's name, our little puppy's name.

25:55 And so we the reason we chose the name Piper was because Peter and I absolutely love the White Lotus. Yes, at TV show and in the last series, Parker Posey's daughter was named Piper. And her biggest thing was Piper No, and that was actually why why we why we chose Piper's name. Lucas actually came up with it because Peter and I would just Piper know everything. And so, yeah, so he's like, you can do at least those, at least those two, OK. Ish. Well, I I practice over the week. Go. OK, All right.

26:29 Ready. OK, Mr. Alec, you're a piece of shit. That's not bad. Better than what you did last week. I like the Mr. Alec. Mr. Alec? Yeah, because. That's like it's Miss Maggie and Mr. Alec. It must be a whole, like it's a Southern. Thing. Yeah, like, yeah, like everyone was Yeah. With that Maggie, Yeah, Yeah. All right, So now serious. Sorry about that. I just had to get that out, though. So it's because I was about to say Moselle, and I feel like I can't say Moselle without saying Moselle. Moselle OK, I think I've gotten it out of my.

27:07 Sister, we're good now. So 7th of June 2021 at the property at 4147 Moselle Road. Now this house is on a 1700 acre estate in Arlington, South Carolina. Yeah, now this when I say to me, you say 1700 acres and that means literally fucking nothing to me. But you can look at aerial photos of the property and it is vast and sprawling, so much so that they could go hunting on their property. There was like creeks through the property and like water bits. They had forest they had like, it was just massive.

27:47 And on the property they had quite a lot of like they had their home and then they had outer dwellings as well. So there was a kennel shed and some a feeding house sort of thing. They had other little barns and other storage sheds and that kind of thing for feed and for farming equipment because it would take a lot to maintain a property of that. Size. This wasn't the Murdoch's only property. They had many. They had a beach house. They had properties in several states, They had other properties in South Carolina as well that were inhabited.

28:27 They would sort of pick and choose and go around. But from what I can gather, I think Mozel was a property where they spent a pretty significant amount of time. Beautiful home. I think we spoke in last weeks episode about the type of home that Maggie, Miss Maggie, liked to keep, which was a very well decorated home. She was very house proud. Yeah, which you look at the house and you think, Oh yeah, that like it is. It was very nice on the outside and photos that I've seen of the inside. It is it's lovely.

28:56 It's very well appointed, very well decorated. And then you look at other things on the property and you're like, it was dilapidated and rundown and not well maintained. Did you get that that impression as well? Yeah, absolutely. But it's kind of just like what farms like, you know, that sort of I suppose. I guess as you say, it takes so much to maintain these things that over time it's I guess they have a bit of a charm to them if they're not brand new on a, on a property like that. Does that make sense too?

29:21 Yeah, Like, yeah. I just, you know, the thing that struck me was that, you know, a lot of those outer houses and like, in particular, we'll be talking about the kennels a lot in the room in the kennels. And you see photos of it and it's got exposed like bats. Yeah. You know, there's no dry what Americans call drywall. There's no diprock around. Yeah. And it's. So it's all like sort of exposed and it looks unfinished to me. Yeah, but I get that. Like or typical. Of but yeah, I guess the exposed nature of things like that's typical of like, you know, farming sheds and stuff.

29:53 You don't put, you don't put Diprock into those places because it only does get damaged and it's not where, it's not where you're living. It's not, you know, it's not that purpose, I guess. Yeah. So I guess it gets that wear and tear and quicker than other places. Yeah, that's completely fair. Yeah. So, yeah, so they're on this sprawling property and on the night in question, we know what it's. It's really hard to say what we know and what, well, we'll talk about what we about what Alec's story is.

30:22 Should we go from his perspective first? Yeah. Kendrick Yeah, yeah. Yeah. OK. So on the night, what Alec says is that the three of them. So this is Paul, Maggie and Alec. Yeah, had dinner together around 7 or about 7:00 PM and they they had a lovely dinner which I believe was prepared by their new housekeeper. Yes, it was because typically the housekeeper said that she, yeah, yeah, she would.

30:53 She'd been asked to make that meal. And that could happen quite often. And I think we spoke about that in terms of with Gloria, Gloria, how that would happen. But what she had such a great relationship with their housekeepers and things like that. What would happen is they would then the family wouldn't eat that meal. And Maggie would quite often then message or phone the the housekeeper of the time and say, you know, like, thank you so much for the meal. It was delicious. Like we, you know, we had it just now or.

31:16 We really enjoyed the real aspect of it or whatever. So I mean, which I think it's lovely that she didn't just dismiss it like, you know, you made the meal for us and then never spoke of it again. Like for someone to go to that, that was always acknowledged that it was done. I feel like that also shows the nature of their relationship. So it was like to Maggie obviously as well, It was obviously a friendship because yeah, if that was just somebody who you employed and you didn't really have any feelings towards, you may not do that or you might maybe mention it in passing next time you saw them.

31:44 But Blanca says very clearly in interviews that she would often call, like, make a phone call to say that was a really. Lovely meal. Yeah, and this particular evening she didn't get that message, which she found unusual. Yeah, she just said she was sort of semi expecting it in a way. Yeah, because it was not that she. That was the. Normal that's right. Not because she was like, oh, when's she gonna call me to tell me how good my, how keep my It was more like she always calls or messages and she was sort of like, oh, that was weird that she didn't do that.

32:12 Yes. What Alec then says is that he fell asleep on the couch and he doesn't really know what happened after that. All he knows is that when he woke up, Maggie and Paul were not in the house. And he assumed they'd gone for a walk, which sometimes they did after dinner, maybe had gone down to check the dogs. Because I think it's, you know, the, the fact that they were on a working farm meant that they had working dogs. And these working dogs were kept in literally in kennel cages. Although having said that, now many people say say that Maggie did not go down to those kennels at night on No she did not like she didn't feel safe down there at night.

32:53 I think she was scared and it was dark. There was no not much lighting down there and she wasn't someone who liked that. So it was it was unusual that she had gone there. Yeah, very out of character. Very out of character, Yeah. Alex says he then woke up from his nap. Now at this stage, his father had terminal cancer and his mother was in the fairly advanced stages of Alzheimer's and or slash dementia. Yeah. Was still living at home but had an in home nurse who would like around the clock. She had an like several people who rotated through shifts around the day.

33:27 Yeah, Alec says that he sent a text message to Maggie and Paul. It was. What time was that around? So he 902902. And it's basically saying that he was going to go and check on his mum and he'd be back because he didn't know where they were. No, he's then gone and driven to his mum's house now. I believe it was about a 20 minute drive away, is that right? No, no it wasn't. It was quite close. Quite close. No, it was only like about or well put it this way, he texted Maggie he left the property at 9 O 6 and he arrived at 9:20 at his mother's place, OK, According to him.

34:04 OK, Yeah. And the nurse sort of verifies that the nurse who Shelly, who was on on shift that night, she does verify with his mom. She also says that he came in with a blue jacket and he was not settled. He came in and he didn't stay for very long, according to Shelley. To her, yeah. According to Alec, he stayed. Till 944, yeah. So 20 odd minutes, maybe 30 minutes, and then he's gone back home. Shelley says that he's left the blue jacket there and he's headed back home. And supposedly arrived there about 10:00 PM, yeah.

34:41 And but let but didn't stay very long at all. No. Then he headed down to the kennels from there. Yeah. So he's, yeah, he's gone back to the property at Moselle and has gone down to the kennels looking for Paul and Maggie. Now he hasn't, I don't believe, gone back into the house. So how did he know they hadn't come back there? That's a question I've got that's never really been raised funny that, which I find interesting. He's gone down to the kennels and he has, According to him, found Maggie and Paul on the floor, bleeding on the ground.

35:14 Sorry, bleeding. He immediately calls 911. So. The Nine on one call goes through at 10:06 PM. OK. Yeah, Now at 10:06 PM, you can listen to the 911 call. Alex, we talked about this in the episode last week and this is very important. Alex's voice is very distinctive. Yeah, he sounds quite distressed on the phone, but then I'll talk about that in a SEC. He sounds quite distressed on the phone. He's saying that he doesn't think they're breathing. And, you know, obviously emergency services are sent out to.

35:51 An interesting question. Well, a statement that said on the, on the 911 call and his, well, his reaction to that is interesting. They're the 911 call. It says, you know, ask, they're breathing. And he goes, no, I don't think so. And then she says, well, don't touch them, right? Because it's a crime scene. Like, you know, if he's stumbled across these people who, you know, have just been murdered, so don't touch them. He's and he says immediately, I already have, I have to check if they were breathing and things, which I at a point I, I understand like doing that as a family.

36:19 I mean as if you would just stand there or not just look at them. You. Would touch my God, I'd be all over them. I couldn't do that, couldn't do anything but. But the way he answers that is so. Calculated. Yeah. No, it is. Yeah, it's very. I already have. I've done this, this, this like it's very. Yeah, I just find that interesting. Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. So the police and EMS arrive on scene and the first, I guess, interview that takes place with Alec is in the police car. There are there's video of it and audio obviously to accompany that.

36:56 And apparently this is not an uncommon thing for the area for people to be interviewed in the police cars. And that's why they're set up with the equipment that they're set up with. Yeah, now Alec goes through his version of events and he is. I watch him and I shudder. Yeah, he is. So now I know we don't know how we would react in a situation where we, quote UN quote, just found our son and wife murdered. And I know people react differently in these incredibly stressful situations. There is nothing about his reaction though that makes me think he's suffered a trauma.

37:39 No, it's very. He's very, he's not crying, he's not distressed. He's just sort of sitting there. He's actually almost sitting there like irritated or something. Yeah, yeah. He's like, you know, the way he's sitting, I just feel like he's not. He's. Uncomfortable. He's he's uncomfortable, yeah. Agitated, maybe. Yes. Yes, but not agitated in the way that like, yeah, that I'm distressed about my family. No, it's more like get this over and done. Think about my answers, whereas to me in that situation, I wouldn't be thinking about my responses.

38:08 I would just be responding. I can understand that. I can I can come at the not crying, like the shock of it. Agree and I'm not actually, is it not actually fully hitting you? What's happened? Yep, I can understand that on a on a psychological level. Yep, But I can see responses just being very automatic and not being thought too much about like because you're just kind of going. You're like on autopilot. Whereas you can see him really considering his answers. Yes, yeah, yes. Which, OK, he's a lawyer, all right.

38:38 Maybe. But your lawyer hat would come off this. This is. I really do think that too. Yes, yeah, yeah. The other thing is, I mean, it's well, he knows all these officers. What majority of them? The main one. No, she's a new officer to the scene and is not familiar with the Murdoch's. She's new to the area and everything, which I think is probably key to this investigation. She's immediately introduced to him, as you know, and made aware, but she was not aware of the Murdoch's as as many of other law enforcement were.

39:13 Well, they were friends with the Murdoch. 'S anyone in law enforcement? They've been there for barbecues and had socialized with them. And, you know, you know, given the political nature of the solicitor role, which is like a District Attorney role that Alec held, there was, you know, a lot of ceremonial stuff that they were involved in together and work things that they're involved with together as well. So they knew each other on multiple levels. Yes. And so I feel like I, when I first saw that he was interviewed in the police car, it made me go.

39:49 But then I, I don't find out that that's actually fairly common practice for, for the South Carolina police, law enforcement. So they're often referred to as SLED, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. State Law Enforcement Division as well. I sort of referred to as both. Both, yeah, OK. Yeah, I I found everywhere it's written differently, right. It's between the two. Yeah, yeah. So what we know is that Paul, who was 22 at the time, it was found in the feed room or storage area of the kennels.

40:19 So there were, you know, maybe I don't know, 8 to 10 kennels, caged kennels side by side. Yeah. And then at the very end of that, there was a feed room and he was found. It's an enclosed space. So it's an enclosed room with one door. Tiny. Like quite small, like all it needed. Really like less. Probably like meter and a half wide kind of thing, Yeah, you know, like an outhouse kind of thing, you know. Size. What it meant was that the gunshot blast was confined to that room and or slightly outside as well.

40:50 Because he was actually shot twice. They believe that he was shot and that first shot didn't kill him. He sort of stumbled. He's got gone. Back well, they reckon, no, they reckon he he he was shot the first time and he wouldn't have seen who shot him. Because he was facing. He was. Facing the other way, he was facing into the into that. He's then spun like, because like he's like, you know what the hell? And it hasn't killed him, but he's sort of lurched forward to and like to exit the room. And as he's come towards the door, they, they reckon he would have seen who shot him then.

41:23 Yeah, he's then been shot again as he's exiting and so that's where his body has landed outside of the the doorway, but. Basically all of the matter was contained within within that room. Yes, both of them were very close range shots. Yes, very close range. Then Maggie, who was 52 at the time of her death, was found near a large oak tree just outside the kennel. So the kennels are sort of in the middle of like a a bit of a forest area. There's a clearing where the kennels are and there's another building sort of next to them, like a barn type of building.

41:54 It's like sort of they might, I think it was like tractors or something stored in there, I think hay, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there was a line of oak trees, and she was found sort of near 1 of the oak trees. And she was face down at the time. And she had five gunshot wounds to her body that were made with an AR15. Yeah. So there were three of those shots were shot from further away. Yeah, the final two shots were to the head and close range. Yeah, which I find interesting. Yeah, isn't it?

42:24 And so that just goes to show like she would have definitely known who had shot her. Yes. And it's how horrific she would have seen Paul. They believe Paul was killed first. Yeah, she would have seen. Or at least heard the gunshots and. Potentially coming to like, you know. Like, what's that noise? Yeah, yeah. And turned Yeah. Yeah, just quickly about AR fifteens, just to break this up just a little bit, have you heard the song, The song about Australia's deadliest animals? It's actually really funny.

43:00 But every time I hear the word AR15, it makes me think of the song because it's talking about how Australia's got all these dead deadly animals like red back spiders and sharks and stuff like that. And then the chorus is at least we don't have AR15, you know? And then it talks about like all the shit that happens in the States with like, you know, semi automatic weapons, yes, that are then used in mass shootings and suicides and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, listen, listen to it. It's actually quite a good song.

43:29 But basically the the point of contention here, I think for the police is that the two different shot, two different guns were used in the perpetration of this crime, both long rifles, both long rifles. But different weapons that's. Right. So one was a 12 gauge shotgun, which has like the slug type ammunition, which was used to kill Paul. Then the AR15 was used to kill Maggie. Maggie. Now I don't know if this means anything to anyone, but it was like a blackout 300 rifle. And so apparently that's like a particular type of bullet that was used.

44:08 Yeah. It's just I wonder Maggie's injuries to me, was she, did she hear gunshots and was she sort of running away? And then I think. She was running towards to be honest. So, but then, so where were the do you think it was once she was shot and then fell forward that the ones were done in her back? So she I've seen recreations of it, yeah, of her. So she's coming towards Yep. And that's why they kind of story say that she knew who it was that was standing there because she was like, what was that?

44:40 And potentially like, rather than running away because she was like, did you hear that as well? Almost like coming towards and then she's got the three shots from the front and as she's fallen, because one's gone through twice, like 1's gone through her. I think it was her shoulder and then through her leg. So there's more bullet wounds than there are bullets that were used. And then as when then when she's on the ground, she was already dead. She was dead, but there was two more shots. Right. OK, to the back of the head, yeah.

45:11 Yeah, OK. Just to really make sure. Yeah, she was dead. Dead. Yeah, but she was. The coroner has confirmed that she would have died from there was a previous a previous bullet before those two went through. Yeah, OK. Yeah, what a horrific, horrific way. To yeah, I think, I think it was like the second or the third bullet would have killed her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess now the police are like, OK, we need to figure out exactly what's going on here because we've had the murder of two really prominent people.

45:38 Yeah. Now one of the things that Alex says in that first interview, while he's in the car with the quickly, very quickly, Yeah. He's like, oh, no, sorry. He says it on the 911 call. He does. I think he does. He says that, oh, you know, my son Paul, people have got it out for him. He was the one who was involved in that boat accident a couple of years ago. Now this incident, this death, these murders took place, I believe it was a week before Paul was used to be to go to trial for Mallory's death.

46:10 Yes, yeah. Now interesting timing. Yeah. So in that in that trial, he was facing quite possibly 55 years in jail. Yeah. So I mean, he's a 21 year old kid at this point. I mean, you're looking at pretty much the majority of the rest of his life was, Oh, yeah, very high chance looking like being spent in prison. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't matter who your daddy is when you've done something. Well, it does because they weren't convinced because there was so many ways you'd get around it. Yeah, I was actually looking at some stuff the other night about the other families from the boating accident and them trying to get a lawyer in terms for that trial and there and having representation because there was basically all that.

46:53 All the defence for Paul had to do was provide reasonable doubt that he was driving right, Nothing more. That's all they had to do. Now. Many of the statements had been tampered with. So there there was inference that, you know, Connor could have been driving. So Connor. Needed the lawyers last week. Yeah, so Connor needed a lawyer. Guess who the Murdochs directed the their family to? Corey Fleming. The same person they directed Gloria Satterfield's family too. So. So that's that was Alex, older brother's best mate.

47:24 And and Godfather Paul, yeah. So there was many connections. So they got rid of him eventually, like like pretty quickly because they they. Realized the conflict, yeah, so. Then they had to go and approach other lawyers. It was said to this family, like verbatim right by other lawyers that they approached that they wouldn't go up against the Murdochs. One lawyer in particular said to them that if Buster was still alive, who is Alex? Grandfather. Paul's great grandfather, if he was still alive, Connor would be crab meat by now and wouldn't be a problem.

48:01 So be glad that that's where this is at, that you even are looking for a lawyer because that's how bad you're getting involved in this. I So I don't want a part of it, you know, like, wow. Yeah. Fucking hell, this family. It goes way back. Holy shit. Yeah. Oh, that's terrifying. So the Murdock's are more like the mafia than we've I think really focused on in the past. Like, you know what I mean? They're more and more. I deep dived into this. There are so many connections to so many. Things. That's insane.

48:35 Particularly Buster. He was known to be quite evil. Buster senior, yes. Not, not, not. Alex, not Alex. Sonya, I've got the fucking family tree. I know, I know with all. The Randalls and Busters. Randalls. Jesus, Yeah, there's too many of them, Yeah. So, yeah, so you know, Alex already trying to spin a story, isn't he that. Oh, my God, this is somebody's. This is a revenge killing. Yes. And like, Maggie must have been collateral damage. Oh. And look. Oh, what I forgot to mention as well. Is Maggie there?

49:07 There was some scuttlebutt, you know, there's, you know, there's rumours that go around in these small towns all of the time. Maggie and Alec, their marriage wasn't amazing, right? Well, OK, apparently this is what majority of people say about their marriage was that they were very much in love. OK. Very much. Yep. However, they loved each other, but at this point in time, were they in love? Right? So there is conjecture around whether or not they were on the rocks or not. OK. Well, you know, think there's, there's stories out there and rumors out there that Maggie had actually engaged with a divorce attorney and was trying to figure out options.

49:56 She hadn't been staying at Moselle very frequently. No, she was staying at the Edisto house in by the. Beach by the beach. And so on this particular night, Alec had called her home. Yeah. And had called Paul home, too. And this was part of the reason that Blanca Blanca had to make dinner for them because Maggie didn't actually get home. And I think it was like 7:00 basically when they were about to start eating dinner. So. And I believe Paul was, you know, not that far before her. So the reason that Alec called them back, we don't know.

50:27 We don't even know if that situation is true and correct. That's that's sort of a rumour that is going around. Things We only have Alex's side of story, and they have. Blankers as well she does say that that Maggie wasn't was at the beach house and that she. Had no no, that's that's fact that day what we only have Alex's side of things on is what the relationship was like and what the the guy was there because. To me, where there's smoke, there's fire. Like I feel like his. Take on it is that she was staying at Edisto not because they were separating like kind of thing and in in that he is saying that she she just preferred to stay there because of what was going on with the trial with Paul.

51:05 She didn't feel comfortable in Hampton. See which by that I I on a level I get I mean as a parent of of a child who is being looked at as as a as a murderer of another very beautiful. You know lovely girl in their in their town that they live in. I mean, going to the supermarket wouldn't have been. Comfortable. Yeah. I, I, I understand it from that perspective, but Paul was still living at Moselle and you would think your son probably needs that support at the moment, especially from his. Yes. Family unit.

51:32 Yeah. So to me, I'm like, what was she escaping? Yeah, what was, I mean, this is the thing. What? Why was she? I don't know. I think I think that is relevant why she was there. Was it that she wanted to be away from her husband and away from all that stuff? Or was it she wanted to be away from the stuff around? Paul Yeah. I could come at both and and. To me, it's more plausible that she wanted to be away from Alec. Yeah, I knowing him, I'd want to be fucking away from him, but but apparently, yeah, she was.

52:01 OK, very. We'll never know. We will never know. She loved him. I wouldn't say in love. That's what people were sort of saying they were like, yeah, they were cracks, but they were very devoted to each other regardless of the cracks. Because there was rumours of him having affairs and things too, and that she was sticking around regardless. Because in that family you don't divorce. No, but I mean, well, yeah, maybe that's a motive. But that that's what I think. That's honestly what I think, because the that being the shame of that the family would not have gone down well anyway.

52:30 Let's. Let's, well, I think more to the point of like that other things would come out in looking at finances and splitting things up. That's where I'm all go. Yes, yes, I think, I think that's very, very true. Yeah, I think that's. The I don't think it's the the divorce being shameful. I think it's what? We come out of it, but 100%, yeah, 100%. OK. Yeah. So right, let's talk about how the investigation went. Well, to start with, I mean, any murder takes place of these two people. Like, you know, there's Paul and Maggie who are the the people who've been killed.

53:05 First and foremost, the police absolutely have to go right? Who could be want them dead Now Paul is someone who is currently on about to go to trial. Of course there are people who don't like him. There is social media glor who don't like him. Many people in Hampton are, you know, very very ovary shit and but. This is the thing, like he has even in. So I believe it was 2 years from when Mallory died to this. Yeah. And he so #1 he has had two years of freedom that he shouldn't have had. Yeah, because of who he is and who his family are.

53:41 Yes, and how slow the wheels of justice turned for him, which is so unfair. Oh, I'm funny that. But then also there was no remorse at all. So what I'm saying is, so he's the people who were on the boat that night. The other teens who were on the boat that night say that Paul was still posting. He'd just found another group of mates who were happy to indulge his every whim and still drink with him and go shooting with him and do all of those things and there was no remorse from Paul. It's not like he was like going to them going I'm so sorry.

54:16 I'm never going to drink again. I'm never going to. I will never operate of the exchange. I'm trying to devote it to the things that Mallory loved because I, you know, I've, I'm going to become. A vet because of her, you know, no, I'm going to do good out of this. No, no, he just continued down the same path. So, Pete, that frustrated people no end. Yeah, well, everyone knew that they, these boys had been raised to know that they were above the law. Yep. That's how that went. Yeah. So the the town knew he's he's not going to go down for this.

54:46 That that was the. As Anthony said, good luck. Yep. You know, good luck getting him for this. Yeah. So, yeah, there was a lot of frustration in that field. So you're right. The police are looking into that. Absolutely had to go back to all those, the the four other surviving people of that boat ride, they went to them first, right? Cleared all of them very quickly, cleared their parents, you know, but then, yes, there was a lot of social media like, and random people who were very vocal online around how much they despised Paul for what he did and, you know, all these sorts of things.

55:17 And no, it's saying like, you know, that he's not going to get justice and say, would someone go, I'm going to take justice in my own hands. Yeah. So they had to look into all that. Absolutely. They had to look into all that. But. But they couldn't find anything. They. Couldn't. Again, we speak about this all the time. In these crimes, you start from the inside and you work your way out. So at what point did they vet Alec? Well, I don't know that they did until he did the next. Thing that's right.

55:46 So again, I feel like because of who he was and because of the influence that he had and the position that he held, the power that he had, he didn't get looked into like it would be if somebody completely anonymous and completely not involved in this fear. Yeah, would have been so. So what happened next? So the next bit is that. Yeah, so he this particular day, he was, he drove his car down the road a bit from his house, pulled over the side and he had a flat tire. Well, supposed supposedly it was, but I think.

56:22 Oh yeah, it was flat. And then slashed. I believe a screwdriver had been used, so not slashed not. Slashed with a knife, but you're punched. Yeah. So flat tire. So he's his story. Let's go with his story to begin with. He was then changing this tire on the side of the road. And According to him, a car pulled up and. Samaritan trying to help. Trying to help and shot him right. In the head. In the head he's he rang the, you know, rang 911 and you know, the phone call that I find very interesting, very good.

56:56 There's no worry or panic in his voice. Cattle. No, like as in some who's just been shot in the head. He is clear. Well, supposedly shot in the head. Sorry. I should should say yes, Supposedly. Supposedly. Shot head you'd even try and act a little bit like I'm in pain or you know, like I don't know. It was He was clear he was very thorough. He did his. Very thorough. You know silver tongue crap on that phone call. My God he was on for a chat. I think it's the weirdest 911 call. It's so. Bizarre.

57:23 So yeah, he calls 911 and cops rock up, you know, and he gets taken off to the hospital. I believe he's got airlifted actually. No, sorry, he did. He got airlifted to Savannah. Hospital, yes. So you can see there's actually body Cam footage. So they sent an ambulance, right? And so he's in the back of an ambulance when the police arrive and they're body worn camera footage. You can see him in the back of that ambulance before he gets airlifted. Yeah. And he's like, I was shot in the head. And like, it's just like, it's so bizarre.

57:54 It's so freaking weird. And the police officers like, OK, like, what do I do with this? You know, It was so weird. Yes. Anyway, sorry. Sorry, no, not at all. So the cops look into this though, and so his description of the person that did this to him is that it was someone much younger than him, short hair, all these sorts of things, basically describing someone who might fit the persona of someone around Paul's age. I guess someone who might be had it out for Paul because the immediate thing that the media pick up on this is like, Oh my God, now Alex been shot and attempted murder on him.

58:33 This is clearly now someone who is a vigilante out there to, you know, destroy the entire family because of Paul. Like, you know, and the stuff that he was involved in, that was what the story that kind of went out on that. Yep. And and from the outside looking into it and the reporting that had been done to that point, yeah, OK, Yeah, I see it 100% fair take on it. Yep, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the cops end up speaking to a guy by the name of Curtis E or Eddie. Eddie. Curtis, Eddie Smith. Eddie Smith, Now Curtis is technically Alex Cousin, a distant a distant cousin, but they've been around in each other's lives for a very long time.

59:20 Yep, now it is an interesting character. Oh my God. To say the least. To say the least. Now Eddie tells a very different story of what happened that day. But now the reason they knew to talk to Eddie is because they so in investigating this, the police are looking for CCTV footage and they go to AI think it was a Funeral Home car park had CCTV footage. And what they can see is they can see Alex car going down the road. Yeah. And then a few, like literally maybe a minute or so later, another truck going down the road and then they can see, actually see them going.

1:00:01 Following one another or one following the other? Yeah, down to where, you know this eventual incident, yeah, took place. The cops are like, well, we gotta look at that car, that car. That is the driver. That's right. Who shot Alec? On the They were doing the right thing. They were trying to figure out who'd been down that road that day. Yeah, so it turns out that it's it's Eddie and they talked to him and Eddie says that he gets a got a phone call from Alec to say meet me on this road. And he's like, just do that.

1:00:27 It's weird, but I go and do that because he does whatever Alec tells him to. So he rocks up, turns up, and Alec hands him a gun and tells him to shoot him. Now, his reason for this, he says, is because his wife and son are dead. He doesn't want to leave anymore. He's, you know, so, so distraught, so distraught, so distraught. He wants, doesn't want to leave anymore. But if he kills himself, Buster won't get the insurance payouts from. So he had a $10 million life insurance policy. Yeah, so to ensure Buster, as his sole surviving son, gets all dues to him, he wanted Eddie to shoot him and kill him.

1:01:13 And Eddie's like, fuck that. I'm not doing. That no man, no. So he literally like like fully according to Eddie, Alec turns around, you know, gets down on the on the ground and like, you know, shoot me in the back of the head, like, you know, and so Eddie shoots into the air and it's like, fuck you, no, I'm not going to do that. And left. At which point we believe Alec has then fallen over accidentally potentially. And that's where he. Hurt his head like grazed. Grazed. He's on the side, it looks like.

1:01:48 It looks like what happens when you fall over when you're a kid on asphalt and you get all the ash felt in your knee. Like, you know, that grey sore? Like really sore, but not a fucking gunshot. Not a gunshot.

1:02:03 Oh God. So they they approach Alec with this information of what Eddie says and he's he basically double s down as if like to say, you know, you know, I said that to Eddie in terms of like, you know, the I wanted to kill me, like I wanted to commit suicide, but you know, I need to save Buster, but he still says that Eddie shot him. Yep. It's not a gunshot wound mate. So even the medical staff who treated him were like, this isn't a bullet graze. We've seen bullet grazes before. This is not a bullet graze.

1:02:36 No, this is a graze. Graze. We had to pick asphalt out of your wound. You know, we weren't picking gun fragments. We're picking or bullet fragments. We're picking asphalt. Asphalt. OK, Yeah. So I guess this kind of thing goes, what the fuck is going on here for the cops? And they're going to look at him a little bit closer, maybe, maybe. Maybe. Well, the the thing that I think the cops figure out is that or, and I guess at this point to, yeah, look, no, law enforcement are really sort of looking at this Eddie character going, hmm, this is very, very odd.

1:03:12 Yeah. What they find in investigating him is that. Eddie. Was it? Was cashing cheques. Cashing cheques for Alec for. Alec, he cashed 437 cheques in total. Total that total of 2,000,000 dollars, 2.4 million. Dollars, U.S. dollars, yeah. Now they all of the cheques, most of the cheques were under $10,000, under 10, like literally some, some of them were like $9987. And 47 cents, yeah.

1:03:45 Yeah, just to look really just legit and yeah, so over like literally 8 years, I think it was this $2.4 million of cash cheques. Yeah. And not only that, but so I guess Eddie was on paper was Alex's handyman. He'd go over and do odd jobs at the house and and all that kind of thing. But really, he was Alex's primary oxycodone supplier. And yeah, his personal check casher I have. A little question mark over the drug stuff go. So I, I query a little bit on this whether or not the drug situation and IA 100% believe drugs are involved in this.

1:04:27 I'm not questioning that, but his drug taking. I'm just questioning whether that was a little exaggerated for purposes of sympathy within the courts. And it meant that he could go to rehab and evade a few questions and things from police because he's in rehab and just, and use that as a as a blame for the financials and and other things that had gone on for him. Like he can blame the drug use and go, Oh my gosh, I'm an addict. Like, you know, I need to get if I'm not an addict, I'm not the bad person.

1:05:01 Yeah, I I think that's very, very fair. But then I. I do think he used I'm. Not saying Oh no no. Don't but I mean no he did. I just query the level of what he he has definitely. I think, I don't know. But The thing is though, I think they were the amount of money. So this $2.4 million, they cannot trace it anywhere. This is because cheques were cashed, right? But what else did he spend that money on if it wasn't? Drugs. I do think he spent it on drugs. I 100% think he spent on drugs. $2.4 million.

1:05:36 The thing that gets me though, is that there's reports out there that he was so addicted to oxycodone, OK to the tune of up to 80 pills a week. I heard him talk about taking over 200 in a week. 200 No, actually, I have read that. No, you're right, I have read that. Because yeah, like if you have a bit of oxy after you've had an operation, 1 tablet fucking makes you woo. And again, over time it you build up a resilience. Definitely, but 200 a week? That's where I think that's was, I think he was buying.

1:06:10 I do think he was buying those drugs, but I also think that there was, he was well, there's talk of cartels being involved. He had well. Yeah, he had. Well, not airports. What airports? He had strips of land where he landed, airplanes, planes coming in. Yeah, so there's talk of connections to various other aspects of drugs. Now, mind you, the whole family knew about that. Paul, Buster, Maggie, they all knew that he had these air fields and airstrips. They would go there and pick. Well, Eddie as well, he says he would go to these airstrips and pick the packages.

1:06:41 He never asked what they were. They rattled, but he never asked what they were when he was either dropping it off or picking it up. Oh God, I love it. He's like and he's like, I knew it wasn't a rattlesnake.

1:06:55 I don't ask. I don't know. Yeah, that's. It, that's it. Don't ask, don't tell. I mean, he was on a good wicket. I think he was getting a fair, he would get a fair percentage of. I think he got something like, well, he, he says he got a handling fee. Yeah, for every time he helped. Now, if you got a handling fee on $2.4 million, I'm sure you weren't getting fuck all. You were probably doing OK out of the situation. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I mean, he was. Eddie was has been charged with money laundering.

1:07:22 And he's, yeah, you know. He's doing his time, yeah. As he should. Be but I just do believe. I really feel like the drug situation was exaggerated in this to benefit him in this in this situation because I think that the drugs actually it also then covered up where the drugs were really kind of going. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think that's, yeah, very, very fair and. There's a lot more to this family that is not uncovered because I believe that that drug cartel stuff goes right back to like this Buster, Buster Senior.

1:07:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they had so much money and it wasn't, but we call it old money these days. And and in relation to Alec and his family, it was old money. Right. But that where did that money actually come from? Because really, Buster Senior was the first generation of that, and that was only two generations before Alec. Yeah. Like, how do you amass such an absolute fortune in two generations? You have to be doing something pretty significant, don't you? Yeah. To get to gain that kind of what?

1:08:31 The words that were used by someone that I was reading the other day was that Buster Murdoch, particularly Buster Murdoch Senior? Yep. Was that if, if he looked, if he knew if he liked you, he looked after you. If he didn't like you, he took care of you, if you know what I mean. Oh, we know what you mean. Sleeping with the fishes kind of took care of you. He'll be sleeping with the fishes, yeah.

1:08:55 So he wasn't known. Not nice person. Yeah. People feared him, oh fucking oath. And that then bled down to and then So what do you get to from that being like, you know, 2 generations ago? What do the next generations look like after that kind of level of Yep? Fear. Yep. 100 when they're still in those same powerful positions. Yep, 100%. Yeah. I just wanted to give you a quote that that Eddie said during his defense. Yeah, he said. If I'd have shot him, he'd be dead. I love that I. Mean. Yeah, fair.

1:09:38 I see that. Well, because, yeah, he reckoned that because that was something that came out at one point that Alex said he did shoot him, but he he missed. Yeah. And he's like, I don't. Miss. I don't miss. Yeah, fuck you, Alec, Fuck you don't. Call me a bad shot. That's the most offensive thing you could probably say to someone from the South. I know. I know, right? Especially to someone like Eddie. Yeah. Yeah. OK, So what we're what's unraveling now is that we're obviously the police like, hmm. Alec didn't tell us the truth about this.

1:10:06 That's weird. I wonder what else he might not have told us the truth about. I think at the same time as this going on, the financial stuff is also. Well, that was unraveling, absolutely. So what? What was going on is the fact that Alec basically had no money. He'd essentially bankrupted himself in the family because of his drug use. So he'd he'd certainly spent that money on drugs or whatever it was that he was cashing these checks for. So when we're sort of like, you know, looking into that, the embarrassment of that for this family and.

1:10:40 Well, his own law firm brought him in and said like, what the fucks? Where's the money? Because they started doing their own audits and checks on things and what they found was that there was so many fees that should have been charged to clients and things that they weren't being able to find within their financials. Where'd that money end up? You know all these. They had some really detailed forensic accounting done. And what they found was that not only had Alec stolen from the legal firm, yes.

1:11:13 So he'd actually taken money out of their coffers to, I don't know, to spend however he wanted to spend it. Yeah. What they also found was that there had been some really shady shit that had happened. So. He what, sorry, forged signatures on things all the time. He redirected checks. He misrepresented case settlements. So like, you know, he said that it was $1 million settlement. So the the law firm were expecting $1,000,000 when in actual fact the case was settled for $3,000,000. So where did the extra go?

1:11:41 You know, that sort of stuff. He was doing all these sorts of things too. In particular, what came out, which is just disgusting, is with Gloria Satterfield's sons. Yeah, so these were the guys we were talking about last week where Alec had provided them this Corey Fleming as a, you know, hotshot lawyer to sue the homeowners insurance. They said that they would get 4 point, sorry, that they would get $500,000. They actually got 4.34 point, $3,000,000. And So what what that meant not that those boys ever saw that 500,000 either, but what that meant was that, you know, what was that $3.8 million has gone straight into the pockets of Corey and and Alec.

1:12:23 Yeah. And so they'd not only done that to Gloria Satterfield's sons, they had done that to so many other. They did it to many injured people in accidents. Yep, they did it to a family of of deceased victim, a quadriplegic, yeah man, a deaf client and and obviously the sons of Gloria Satterfield as well as the law firm. So money was coming in from multiple different places in that sense. Yeah, the the paraplegic case, I, I read into that a little bit more. Yeah. And that was disgusting because what ended up happening was the settlement that that person got was not even enough to cover their care.

1:13:01 No. Whereas it should have been like the settlement that they legitimately got was enough. Yeah. But what they thought they got was nowhere near enough to cover what they needed to live a basic, basic, basic life. It's. Just it's disgusting what he did to was to so he to get this over people so they didn't question it. He set up a bank account and named it Forge. Now that doesn't mean anything to you. I'm not you and I. However, in this county and in this area, there was a well known legitimate financial settlement planning company called Forge.

1:13:34 So these what he would convince these families of what he was doing was that the check would come made out to Forge, which meant that the money was going into an account that was for their financial future. And it was a planning, like a settlement planning account. And so they would say, yeah, sure, put it in that that bank account and it would be his bank account just named Forge. And he never, obviously they would never be able to access. They can't access that money then no. So how did that not come out earlier?

1:14:06 Nobody wanted the money or needed the money. They believed it was being put where it was supposed. To be sure. OK, yeah, Fucking hell. He would convince them that this was what was and because it was a legitimate company, they they honestly thought that this was being done out. It was supposed to be done and it wasn't. Fucking hell yeah. Unbelievable. OK, so now Alec is looking more and more suspicious day on day and. So what does he do? He goes and checks himself into rehab. Yeah, because he's weak as fucking piss and he knows that this will look sympathetic to a judge.

1:14:38 That's what I mean by this exaggeration of it. I don't believe it was fully as bad as he made out, but so he goes off to rehab. But he thinks by doing that is, you know, avoiding all of it. The day leaves rehab, what do they do? They arrest him. Yeah. Thank fuck. Yeah. But it's not the end of it. Of course it's not, no, basically the other thing that they do. So when they arrest him, they're obviously interviewing now, interviewing him now at the police station. And this is really the first recorded interview within the police station, because I think there were two recorded interviews in a car with him.

1:15:13 And then the third, the actual first one in a in the actual police station, yes, was after he'd been released from rehab. Yeah, that's right. And so he's in this, even the way he sits in that gives me the fucking shit. It's like he's so fucking too cool for school. Oh, mansplaining always. Yeah, totally. And so his attitude is just like, we're discussing the murder of your wife and your son. Yeah. And you're just. Oh my God, he's fucking horrific. The way like they get to a point where the police officers are is asking questions and and ends up directly saying to him, did you shoot your son Paul?

1:15:49 And did you shoot your your wife, Maggie? And which he responds, you know, both times. No, I did not. No, I did not. And then he turns and he, he asked the officer, do you believe I did that? Yeah. And I love the officers response to it in that I have to go where the the evidence point is pointing me to, and this is where it's taking me. But the way he just so arrogantly says like, you know, what? Are you looking at me for this? Yeah, yeah. Dude, yeah. So the police having evidence, Paul's phone and Maggie's phone, right, Phones.

1:16:21 Now, these, this family were prolific phone users. They were on their phones all the time, particularly Paul, particularly Paul, particularly Paul sending Snapchats and all, I don't even know Snapchat, but you know, messages and all that sort of stuff. Back then in constant contact with people, a lot of face timing and that kind of thing as well. Like that was something that he did often. Yeah. So they, the police give give Alec Paul's phone and said, do you know the passcode to this? And he's like, no, I don't know.

1:16:54 The police then spend him. When he says it, by the way, No, I don't, I don't. The way he smirks. Yeah, exactly. He that was in the car, that was one of the interviews in the car where they asked him this. So this was before he'd been to rehab. The police are like fuck, we really need to get into this phone because we need because they could get into Maggie's Paul new Alec sorry knew Maggie's passcode so that was fine. Both Alec, sorry, both Maggie and Paul's phones both stopped working, both stopped having any correspondence or traffic at around 8:49 and they looked and then.

1:17:27 They were locked. So what they've gathered from Maggie's phone is that. Yeah, that that this murder has occurred at approximately 849. Yeah, they can sort of like roughly say that that's there's no more movement on Maggie's phone at that point. So this is the way it's getting a good timeline from her phone. But they need corroboration through Paul's phone. Yeah. So they send the phone off to the Secret Service, Secret Service who because the the police, the local police have tried and they've used their forensic people.

1:17:55 Nothing they've. Tried all the. Well, according to them, they tried all of the obvious number combination. But then they send the phone off to the Secret Service, and the Secret Service put his date of birth in and that opens up the phone. Wouldn't you be embarrassed? Oh well. Especially when like I think it was Buster even that's on interview saying like, Oh no, Paul's really private. So I would, I don't know his. Past. No, no, that was actually Alex said was Alex. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's really private.

1:18:17 He's. Very private with his phone. We, we don't. Know fixing your fucking birthday. So, so fucking private. Yeah. So anyway, the that meant then that the police were able to go through and forensically look at absolutely everything on Paul's phone. And they see that it exactly, pretty much the exact same time his phone also goes dark, which is at 849 roughly. Yeah. And then, but they go back and they're looking at photos and videos. And what they find is there's a video that Paul took at 844 and 49 seconds.

1:18:47 We call this the kennel video. This is the linchpin of this case. It's the smoking gun in my opinion. Without this, I don't even know where things would be. Should we just go back one second before you go to that? No, no, no. I'm just as you're saying that going Maggie's phone was not found on her. True. They couldn't find it for a while. They found it down the road, which is a weird thing. An odd thing. Anyway. Yep. Yep. So. But her phone does stop working and stop moving. And at the same time as Pauls.

1:19:20 Yeah. The same time as Pauls. Yeah. Yeah, roughly. But they are further away from each other than their bodies. Yep. That's very fair, very fairpoint. Yeah, So what happened was so one of Paul's mates had his dog at the was kenneling his dog at their kennels, I think. He'd gone away or gone. I feel like he'd. Oh my God, I saw him interviewed. Oh, same. I feel like he was either going, he got into maybe going to college, maybe gone to college I think or something. OK. There was a reason that he wasn't in Moselle.

1:19:51 His college was further away in that, so I think so. He'd asked Paul to look after his dog. Yeah, so this dog was down at the kennel, and when Paul had gone down there that night with Maggie, he'd noticed that there was something wrong, This puppy, this. Dogs name was Cash, and he'd noticed there was something wrong with Cashier's tail. Yeah. And so he tried to FaceTime this friend, but there wasn't much reception down there. Yeah. I mean, when you look at it, you're like, Oh yeah, there's tall trees all around you.

1:20:18 Like, I get why you're at the middle of nowhere. So Paul then decides to take a video that he can then send to send once he gets back up to the house to his mate to be like, what do you want me to do about your dog's tail? Yeah. So it's a shocking fucking video. Like, can you even see the tail? Like, it's wagging. And he's like, the phone's going everywhere. But the really interesting thing is you can hear Miss Maggie in the background. Yeah. And she's like, Oh my God, One of the dogs has a, has a Guinea.

1:20:48 And then you hear this other male, very distinctive male voice say. It's a chicken. Yep. Or it's a bird. It's a chicken, is it? Yeah. OK. Very distinctive voice. Who do we know who has a very distinctive voice made? Could be one Alec Murdoch, by any chance? Yeah. Maybe. Maybe he also said something else. There is something else he says after that. And then 'cause she, she's like, Oh my God, like, you know, it's kind of a little bit like, you know, panicky from Maggie, like, not panic like, but. But you're like, oh, the dog's got something.

1:21:20 Yuck. Oh, get it out of its mouth, basically. And he does say something else after that. And again, it's so distinctive. You know whose voice that is without question. Yeah. And like And Paul's not reacting to his voice as if he didn't expect to hear his voice. No, no, no. There is no reaction. He continues on recording. Like this dog's tail. And, you know, you can kind of hear him talking over the video a little bit, too. Yep. But yeah. And then that cuts out. That cuts out. Wait, wait, Alec never said he was at the kennels?

1:21:46 What? What do you know? He got to the kennels after 10:00 at 10 O. 6 And if Alec was at the kennels when that video was being recorded at 8:49, at 8:44, sorry 44 and then Maggie and Paul are shot at 8:49, that doesn't give much time for him to have exited the scene and someone else come in and shoot them loudly with shotguns. He just forgot that he was there at the time, basically of their murders. What? Say what? And then he's like also gotten in his suburban, driven to his mum's. So at 9:06. So he did.

1:22:29 So yeah. He he actually. Did actually did. He arrived at his mother's place at 9:06. I'm sorry. He drove there at probably at sorry at nine O 6 and arrived there at 8 at 9/22. He left there by 9:44. He returned to the kennels, so at 10:00 PM to then make the phone call to 911911 at ten O 6.

1:22:53 What? So Alec in the trial, because he is completely charged with this murder and at the at the trial, he changes his story in the middle of the trial because this is this it took so long to his lawyer. Yeah, well, someone said in one of the documentaries of like, sorry, Alec became his own lawyer at that. .100% yeah. And you can actually see the look on his lawyer's face because this whole thing was televised, Yeah. So there's a lot of really good court, court. The look on his lawyer's face, I'd be like, yeah, well, of course this was going to happen, mate.

1:23:31 Like, look at who your client is. But sorry, go explain. Simply, I mean, as we've said all the time, don't get on the stand, don't get on the stand. Don't get on the stand. Your lawyer will tell you don't get on the. Stand the lawyer told him not to get on. The stand, he very much said that, but he couldn't help himself and he got on the stand. Because he thought that he could spin it. Literally. And because and he does say I understand, he goes, you know, they lied about being there. Yep. And he said.

1:23:59 I lied to the investigators. I was at the kennels. Yeah, and he tries to sort of then make out as if he left and he didn't see this until he came back, but he then tried, oh, what's he says about the the nurse? Because he. Shelley. Yeah, so he he went to the nurse and told her, tell the police I was here for like 45 minutes and she's like, he's only here for like. 20, yeah. You know, and she confessed that to the police. She's like, I can't do this. He's trying to tell me to say he was there longer.

1:24:30 And she sat on the stand and said that. Yep, and she was terrified to do it. Oh yeah. Terrified. I feel so awful. For I know she yeah, she's a woman of great integrity. Absolutely. And so he got on the stand then and basically tried to make out that she's lying and said I don't know why she's doing that. Like because I was there for 45 minutes and I know I was and really doubled down on that sort of situation, which I think I just did him no favours. No, but he makes this statement in that time of this weird and the judge calls him out on it in the end and says he goes, you know, all the the was it the web of the, the, the web of lies?

1:25:03 We, we, we, we wave. What what is is that trying to get yourself off of this because that's making you sound like you're guilty. You're guilty as fuck. And yeah, you tried to lie your way out of this and it's not worked. The other thing that the prosecution have is a fair whack of of circumstantial evidence. Yeah. So part of that is we mentioned that blue jacket. Yeah, now the blue jacket had Maggie's blood on it. Yeah, splatters of Maggie's blood. They found that at Alec's mom's place. Yeah. They also the testimony from Blanca, the housekeeper, was that that morning Alec was wearing a certain outfit and then that night he was wearing a different outfit.

1:25:48 Well, he was wearing then on the video these khaki pants and a blue shirt. Yeah. Yet when the police arrive, he's wearing a white T-shirt and shorts. Yeah. So there's been a change of clothes regardless of whether he's, I mean, at what point in this, this. Timeline he time exactly. Like he would have time if he'd shot them at 8:49. No, absolutely. And didn't call the cops until 10/06. Absolutely. It's got plenty of time to change his clothing. But in his timeline of saying, well, I've left pretty much at 8:44 after I said those words on that video, Yeah.

1:26:19 And gone to my mum's. Yeah. And never mentioned changing clothes In this time and his timeline he's giving there's no time for changing clothes, but he's absolutely changed his clothes and they have. Evidence of that? Yeah. Yeah. There's so much evidence. Yeah. They also found that his Suburban had been wiped down, right? Yeah. But apparently this is, this happens all of the time. People forget to wipe the seat belt when they're trying to get rid of evidence from the car. And so there was actually Maggie's blood on the seat belt that had been soaked into the seat belt.

1:26:51 So he's obviously had blood on his hands when he's pulled his seat belt across. And her, like his, sorry, her blood in his fingers have, you know, left that there. So that was found as well. Again, circumstantial, but it all points to the same outcome, the same ending. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, definitely. He's at trial now. What was he charged with in the end? Let me just get my piece of paper about all of this, because this is even complex in and of itself, because he was tried for the financial crimes at the same time.

1:27:25 Yeah, yeah. So that it was a quite a complex court case. It occurred in, it went from January to March in 2023, and it took place in Walterboro, SC And the reason for that is because he was so prominent in Hampton County and the surrounding counties, they actually had to, you know, move fairly far away to get what would hopefully be an impartial jury or somebody he didn't know or had probably more so that wasn't influenced by who he was and who his family were. Yeah. So it was an absolute media circus.

1:28:01 As I said, it was televised. People were lining up at 5:00 AM to get a seat in the courtroom. There was a lot of a lot of shit went down. There were bomb threats that were called in and cleared the court several times. I. Wonder who did that? I. Wonder. Who? Eddie. Eddie. Anyone. Eddie, I think. I think Eddie was actually already in general by. This time. I'm pretty sure his his trial was his sentencing and everything.

1:28:29 Maybe he had people on the outside helping you, who knows. So basically they they get to the point they did have a pre trial hearing and they were sort of testing some evidence and that kind of thing. But what it meant was that when it came to the full trial that the financial crimes and the murder charges were both handled within the same, yeah, within the same trial time. Which was probably a good thing because there it was all intertwined. Everything to do with this case was all really intertwined.

1:29:06 He, Oh my God, this is one thing that actually gets me. I've just written down snot. If I say to you snot, what do you think? Oh, no, I'm lost. Oh my God. In every fucking interview, in every, even on every time he's on the stand, all he does is sniff and it drives me. It was actually to the point where I'm like, I can't fucking watch this bloke anymore. My dad would hate it. My dad hates a snot. Anything taking like lots of cocaine? I think probably, but he's like. Oh God, oh gag. Like last week.

1:29:35 Oh yeah, we're not talking about oyster roasts. Don't worry. Juicy oyster roasts. But it's disgusting. Like his, his manner. He's just so fucking gross. I find him really repulsive. He's so repulsive. Yeah, but the sniffing just really gets me. One of the jurors actually commented because, you know, we know in the States jurors can then come out after the trials and and say whatever they want to say. And one of the jurors actually said that he was trying to cry at one point, but all he could do is like blow his nose and try and make his eyes water from blowing his nose.

1:30:13 I'm like, well, at least he blew his nose then. And. Did. Oh yeah, sniff. Disgusting.

1:30:20 So on the 2nd of March, the trials gone on until the 2nd of March and the jury begin deliberating at 3:41 PM that day. The experts, people in the legal fraternity, assumed that it would be quite a significant deliberation. There sort of be days, if not, you know, up to a week of deliberations. The initial vote, according to the jurors, was that when they entered the room there were 9 guilty, 2 not guilty and one person who was unsure the evidence. Apparently the two that were that didn't vote guilty straight away.

1:30:55 The thing on it was that they just could not come at the fact that a father could shoot their own child. Yep. It wasn't that the evidence didn't show that. It was that they couldn't believe that somebody would do that. Yeah. So they talked around that they watched the video again and that kennel video, and that was an L in the coffin. That was the thing that everyone was like, well, yeah, he's there. He's there at the time that they were murdered. And I think a lot of people still to this day are not convinced that there wasn't someone else involved.

1:31:24 Yeah, I think people say that because of the fact of the two guns, the two guns, yeah, both of the guns were did belong to the Murdoch family. There were ballistic that were done to show that they were they were done. The guns were never recovered. The actual guns were never recovered. Very interesting. Have you seen that footage? No. Oh, so there was a particular like this is where we go again. There's so many connections to law enforcement, right? Yep. That the the police had decided that they would have SLED had decided they would like look at the house and, you know, see what evidence they could find there.

1:31:58 And oddly enough, do you think maybe someone might in the Murdoch family might have found out about that beforehand? I think pretty likely because Randall his like Alex's brother and and someone I think might have been, might have been John Marvin, can't remember exactly who they rocked up in a car. Now there's someone, it was a journalist who had a drone and he knew about this fact that they were going to come and do a search of the house. He didn't know it was. It was purely coincidental. In the interview, he said he knew that it was happening.

1:32:28 Oh, OK, so he thought he'd put up a drone and just keep an eye on the House and things. OK. OK, so the day before this was going to occur. Yep. Rocks up this truck and he's got his drone up and he records these people going into the house and bringing out a heap of stuff, not just guns, but a heap of stuff out of the house, guns included. And it's very much seen him. They're carrying out these, those two particular guns he carried over his arm like at one point and put them in the truck. And now, oddly enough, they just then disappeared.

1:32:57 Completely forgot about that, I have seen that video. You can see it on like YouTube or something in Google search. Yeah, it's very, very clear. He follows them down the road with his drone for a considerable way. And it's very obvious that things were taken out of that house before it was searched by SLED and that they couldn't find their murder. Weapons. Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean that's. Too coincidental to go that that occurred. I just, yeah. Oh, 100%, yeah. The final tally after 45 minutes of deliberation and debate, Like they did say there was debate about it and they were talking around this issue of being able to kill one's child.

1:33:35 Yeah, a unanimous guilty verdict was returned on all counts. So we're talking the financial crimes and the two counts of murder. Yeah. When the clerk of court, who she was a key hill, Yeah, she was, yeah, a bit nervous about having to read that out to Alec. But when she read out the guilty verdict, Alec basically sat there and just stone faced, Yeah, I Buster was sitting next to John Marvin in the court when the guilty verdict came down. And obviously the cameras were focused on on them, too. And Buster just kind of puts his hand, his head in his hands.

1:34:15 And I mean, his dad's now going to prison forever for murdering his mom, for murdering his mom. And his brother. So he was sentenced to two consecutive. So not concurrent but consecutive sentences of his natural life so he will never be released from prison. He was then also convicted for it was 40 years he was given for the financial stuff. Yeah. So yeah, because we now move to now where he is appealing the murder charges, there is he's not appealing the financial stuff. So even with appealing the murder charges, no matter what, he has to spend the 40 years in prison, which I mean, 40 years would be the rest of his life.

1:35:01 He's now he's now, I mean, he was 52, I believe 51 at this, at this point in time when he when he, the murders were occurred. So I mean, 40 years, I mean, you're pushing it, I guess to whether your life's still still around. So 40 years is enough to get him to stay in jail for the rest of his life. So I question that. I mean, I get it for the purpose of like, if you're truly innocent, that you would continue to fight that, that it's not on you that you killed your wife and son. But at the same time, you're gonna spend the rest of your life in jail regardless.

1:35:27 Why put yourself through it as well? Because when you fucking did it. But yeah, he's appealed that it's actually playing out. At the moment. So. In February of 2026. Part of that appeal that they've put in is around that clerk and the law clerk that read out that verdict. So Becky Hill, who has written a book about the battle, she, she's been accused of tampering with that jury. There's been evidence of tampering with the jury by Becky Hill to gain information for her book, right? She's resigned from the role.

1:36:05 I mean, so it's kind of almost admitting guilt. But at the same time, if she did, she did. And I guess he does deserve a retrial. It's interesting, I've seen some commentary around this being that that happened after the fact, after the trial, after the verdict. And so where the legal precedent sits with that, people aren't really sure. So it does need to be tested in court and whether or not he will be granted another trial, we won't know for months. So the his legal team have put this to the court of the reasons that they want a retrial to take place.

1:36:46 But whether or not that happens, we won't know for a long time. Like I've I've seen somewhere that maybe by July we might know. Yeah. And it's February at the moment, so the wheels of justice, as we know, turn very, very slowly. Especially when you're a Murdoch. Yeah, well, I think he would want this to go fast. Yeah. Because he thinks he can get himself off because he's an arrogant fucking son of a bitch. But he can't get himself off the financials. Yeah. So yeah, they say. He's doing this for his own entertainment, like he, you know, I. Mean there's him in him, Yeah.

1:37:15 And he? Can't help himself. No, he can't help himself. And the fact that he thinks he can, he probably, he obviously thinks he can win it. Yeah. You know he's he's. He's is there it's I mean it's pretty strong evidence against him. Yeah. I can't see another jury that's not tampered with. And you know, like as as, as being put forward at the moment has occurred. You redo that trial the way you know, I mean, I know that they, I mean, obviously the prosecution will, I'm sorry, the defence will change tact, you know, and all that kind of thing to you know, was it that they've learnt they now, I think they were in trial when they found out about the evidence in terms of the the video footage on on Paul's phone.

1:37:52 They want 100% were already in trial. Yeah. So The thing is like that's something they can, they now know going into it that they can start that from the beginning with the next jury to sort of be on the back foot about that rather than on the front front foot, sorry, rather than the back foot. Yep. Yeah. So I guess that could change a smart, a slight slightly different trial in that respect. But to the point of then you still know he's now, you know he's there at the time of their deaths, basically like within minutes of him, of them being shot, he was there.

1:38:22 They also did just to sort of prove that even if he had of walked away in that time frame that he would have still been able to hear gunshots. This is, that's the thing. It's not even about the fact that he he could have. Yes. OK, let's say at, you know, 446, he left AT-449-A gunshot going off. He's 46840. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So 3-4 minutes. Yep. You know, of leaving that property. The gunshots would have been that loud that he would have gone. What the hell was that? And gone back, you know, so calling at 10:06 PM.

1:38:56 Yeah, finding their bodies. Yeah. Oh, it's, it's ridiculous. Like he's a, he's a fucking dickhead. Let alone then, all the other evidence that goes along with it. Yeah, just another really interesting part about the trial. The the judge, his name was Clifton Newman, who presided over the trial of Alec. Yeah, he said. We have a lawyer whose family has controlled the Court of Justice for years, whose grandfather's portrait hangs at the back of this very courthouse. I have had to have ordered removed to ensure that the Fed, a fair trial was held by both the state and the defense.

1:39:27 So that, again, shows the influence. His grandfather's picture was in this courtroom. Yeah. And like, he thought he was above the law. He thought he could get away with this motive, I think is something we need to talk about. Like, yes, the motive for him doing this I think is widespread. I think there's the financials. I don't think he wanted Maggie to ever find out that he they were in essentially in financial ruin because of him. I mean, that is the the shame of that for him would be like, I mean, they've come from a position of welfare like generations.

1:40:00 You're the fuck wit who couldn't maintain it and couldn't grow it. You know that. I think that would really kill him as a narcissist. Definitely, yeah. The fact that, you know, potentially, if Maggie was thinking of leaving him, the shame that that would bring upon the family, That was just not something the Murdochs did. They didn't get divorced. They, they, they. Just threatened them with. Murdering their lives and put. Obituaries in the newspaper like his dad did. His dad did to his mum and they were still ticked.

1:40:25 Off that was her she. The reason he did that was because Libby, his wife did say to him, I'm I can't do this anymore. I'm going to leave you. Yep. And so he put a fucking obituary in the newspaper to threaten her with her life. Yeah. To keep her in the marriage. Oh, it's. Probably worth noting as well, Alex's dad died three days after Paul and Maggie of terminal. He had, I believe, bowel cancer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, like there's so much tragedy befalling, befalling this family all at the same time, most of it at the hands of fucking son.

1:40:54 Yeah. Crazy. Totally. Nobody. Nobody ever. Like Paul wasn't a good person. No. No. But he did not deserve to be murdered. Nobody deserves to be murdered, especially by his father. Yeah, Maggie. That one, like I can't come out, no in respect to it because, OK, let's say his motive is the fact of the shame of, like Paul say, going to jail for, you know, his mistakes. Yeah, to me, you can spin that of his mistakes as a young person, right. I don't. I actually don't think he would have gotten the full 55 years.

1:41:32 No, he wouldn't have. I think he would have gotten less than that. Yeah, but he would have. I think he would have been charged with it. I don't think they could have got away with not charging him with it. I think it would have happened. Convicted. Sorry. Yeah, I do think he would have been convicted of agreed of it, but I don't think he would have gotten the full 55 years because he's a Murdoch. So yeah, I think that that was, if that's the motive for killing him, I find that really hard to swallow.

1:41:55 Like because legal? Legal commentators were saying they thought he would probably get 20 years. Yeah, that's where all my head was sort of going, so. You're still going to be released in your very early 40s. You can still live a very lovely natural natural if you get your main together in that time and use it how it should be used. That's right. And actually reform like, yeah. Buster Junior, There's not a lot around about him. He's definitely gone very, very quiet. However, he is married and he's got a little young child.

1:42:29 He doesn't live in Hampton anymore. He's certainly, you know, even geographically distanced himself from. An area that happened, which I don't blame him. No, nor do I. In terms of Paul too, with, you know, the motive of on Paul the a couple of days or when the the deaths were became public knowledge kind of thing. The other thing was happening at that time was a civil suit by the victims like sort of Mallory's family of the Murdochs, Murdochs for for that her death. Now that would have cost them more than they had because of where the financial situation was where they were.

1:43:07 So that would have exposed him as well. So the family obviously with Paul being dead out of respect for the family going through a tragedy at that point and also the fact of it just becoming legally challenging then to move forward with that because then they dropped. That civil suit, yeah, Because you will essentially then have to sue Paul's estate. And Paul didn't have personally have much wealth. Yeah. So they even if they had have pursued it, they wouldn't have gotten much, no. So they did end up dropping it.

1:43:38 It just it wasn't worth it to them to continue on it. But also like, look, you've, you've lost a son. We've lost a daughter out of that as well. Like, they did drop it. Yeah. Which I think maybe that was more the motive. Yeah. Of killing Paul. Yeah. Which is sickening to think. I think it's that. I think it's also like the shame that he's, yeah, you know, him going to prison would bring on the family. But haha, look where Alec is now. The fuck wit what? Yeah, more shame than ever. His behaviour from go to war is shameful.

1:44:06 Yeah, like I'm talking even before. Like before Mallory's death. Before Gloria's death. Yeah, you see them on that footage, particularly I find of the hospital of the day of the the boat accident, the night of and you watch him walking around that hospital. Shuffling in his slippers and his dressing gown like he couldn't even be fucking bothered getting dressed. Sorry. I just, it does really repulse me of like his attitude, this arrogance, total arrogance of I own this place. Yeah. Walking into, yeah, walking into people's, you know, you know, hospital rooms, telling them what to do and what to say.

1:44:47 It's just disgusting. Who's how repulsive? The hubris, It's it's, it is. It's repulsive behavior, Yeah. Instead of asking people, it was documented how he walked into rooms and he never asked any of them are you OK, how are you? It was have you spoken to police yet? That were the first questions he asked. You've got to tell them. And Connor was driving. And was. Driving like it was was not. I'm coming in to check on you because my son was, you know, involved in this and how. Oh my God. Are you OK as almost any other parent would do?

1:45:20 Oh. God, I can't even imagine being that parent of that of the child who was driving that boat. Look, you know, people make mistakes in their life and you'd hope that, you know, people could forgive mistakes and that yeah. And then but that would be as a parent, that would be your role of like, mate, you need to get your shit together. Like you, you have to cop this. This is, you know, like that's no, not that is not the parenting that he had. That was not what he did. It was a family of cover up.

1:45:51 It was it was just the way the family handled things right from, you know, Buster senior and down. Yeah, it was a culture within their family and no one ever took responsibility like they should have. Well, there were families within the Hampton community who would tell their children don't spend time with the Murdochs because they they knew they were above their law and they didn't want their kids involved in that stuff. It's good, good, good advice. Yeah. Where's good? Advice those and those families that did spend time with their kids were being spending time with the busted, with Buster and with with Paul.

1:46:24 The the comments from those families in interviews have been that they warned their children you will never don't get mixed with things because you won't. They won't get into trouble. You will. They're right. I mean, this is the thing that that that was so widely spread in Hampton County of the power and control this family had for themselves. But you were. You'd be collateral damage than anything. Else, Oh yeah, they they would throw you under the bus to save themselves without even thinking about it and.

1:46:53 If and as one, as one lawyer said, if it was back in the day of Buster Buster Senior, it wouldn't be collateral damage of like law things coming down you it would you'd just be dead. You'd just be swimming with the fishes. Jesus. Christ. And I wonder how much of that actually still continued through this family. I mean, we don't. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. Wow. Please let us know what you think. I can't imagine there's anyone out there who thinks that Alec isn't responsible. Oh yeah, I reckon there'll be a few come.

1:47:24 I mean, there'll be a few people out there who can swing this. I don't know. Yeah, Alec himself, Yeah. Yeah, fellow narcissist. You know he can do it. I can do. It yeah. Thanks for joining us again for another episode, everyone. We really appreciate everyone joining us. Please don't forget to share our podcast with someone. That's what we would love you guys to do this week if you can. It would be very, very helpful, someone who you think might like listening to us. Keep your case suggestions coming in as well.

1:47:55 We're sort of up to the point where we're going to start planning our next block of of recordings. So please let us know what you want to hear and we will be more than happy to go down that path. Yeah. You can also join us over on Patreon. You get a bonus episode every month that's at patreon.com/two Crime Besties. Excellent. Love it. Love your work. Once again, Emma. Thank you, Meg. Awesome. Stay curious. Crime besties. Bye.