Episode 79 - The Murdaugh Family: Part 2 of 2

0:15 Hello for another week to Crime Besties.

0:17 Thanks for joining us again. How is everyone?

0:19 I hope everyone's doing well. How are you, Meg?

0:22 I'm good. How are you doing?

0:23 I'm all right. I'm doing all right.

0:25 Yeah, we'll. Get through this, yeah.

0:28 We're on Part 2 of two of the Murdoch murders.

0:32 My God, this story is crazy. As we said last week.

0:36 I think we said the word bat shit crazy last week a few

0:38 times. Yeah, actually, really is.

0:40 I think this week particularly like we're getting into real

0:43 deep of it of the Murdoch family and it all unravelling, I guess.

0:49 Oh, not all of it. I shouldn't say that.

0:50 I shouldn't say all of it. Yeah, that, you know, parts of

0:53 it are unravelling for them and that it becoming a little bit

0:55 more God, yeah, more insane. I was talking to my dad during

1:00 the week and he didn't know anything of this, which is

1:03 pretty, pretty typical for him. Mm hmm.

1:05 And he's like, I just actually can't even fathom what's coming

1:09 next. I'm like, strap in. 100%.

1:14 Yeah. Oh my gosh.

1:15 Yeah. Yeah.

1:15 We've had a few comments over the week with a couple of people

1:19 saying like they've they knew about this but didn't know all

1:21 the back story to it. So it's, it's pretty cool to see

1:24 that you know some people. I thought everyone knew this one

1:26 in and out. You know, it's kind of the a big

1:29 one, as we were saying last week on Netflix.

1:30 But there's definitely people who have only heard surface

1:32 stuff around. And I think also the thing with

1:34 the Netflix documentary, it's pretty comprehensive, but it's

1:37 certainly not totally like it's not absolutely everything there

1:40 is tonight, no. Because I have to say there's

1:42 one HBO one yes, on HBO X and I actually found found that that

1:46 was more meet in depth and informative.

1:48 Yeah, and there's a couple of other well, there's the podcast

1:51 Mandy mum. Yeah, you're gonna.

1:55 It's really good. And yeah, she's a really great

1:57 investigative journalist who I sort of broke this a bit more

2:00 and she's the one who's in Like there's a the character of her

2:02 in that drama series. Yeah, she's.

2:06 Amazing, though, she's so she, was she like New York Times

2:09 journalist or something? Would that feel like Yeah and.

2:12 Yeah, she was. And but she covered all the

2:15 South for the New York Times. Yeah.

2:17 And yeah, she's, she was just on top of everything.

2:19 She knows every key detail about this case.

2:22 Yeah. And so much so that she actually

2:24 even got to go with the jury to the house in Moselle and look

2:28 around. And.

2:29 Yeah. So she's got a real, real

2:31 insight into it. I found.

2:32 I found her, even her written stuff really compelling.

2:36 Yeah. To, to in terms of research for

2:38 this week, yes, it was a good one.

2:39 Definitely before we get into the case.

2:41 So we've obviously got lots of things to talk about.

2:43 I've actually got a couple of recommendations this week.

2:46 So I have had a little bit of extra time this week to do a few

2:52 things. And so it's meant that I was

2:54 like looking for shows to watch and I was listening to some

2:58 different podcasts. And I don't know if I've

3:00 mentioned this one yet, but Hedley Thomas's new podcast

3:03 called Sick to Death. It is based on a book that he

3:07 wrote of the same name and it's sent, I think it was, this

3:12 happened around 2010, so it was quite a long time ago, but it's

3:16 in relation to a doctor up in Queensland.

3:20 He was an international doctor in Bundaberg.

3:23 His name is Jayant Patel and he was actually employed to the

3:27 Queensland medical system as a surgeon.

3:30 And it turned out that he actually didn't have the right

3:34 qualifications. He endangered people's lives.

3:38 They, I think I actually it hasn't come to its the podcast

3:42 hasn't come to its conclusion yet.

3:44 But what they're saying and where I'm up to is that

3:49 apparently he's implicated in like roughly or more than 20

3:52 deaths that were unnecessary for patients.

3:55 He left patients sort of maimed as a real sort of Australian

3:58 doctor to death. He's in, he's, I believe he's

4:01 Indian, lived in trained in America.

4:05 And then was this like he did lots of not great things over

4:09 there. He wasn't allowed to work in

4:10 certain States and then he's come over to Australia to work

4:14 and he performed surgeries that he wasn't even trained or

4:16 qualified to do in a hospital that wasn't even accredited to

4:19 do them. Like it's a real expose as well

4:23 into the healthcare system and, you know, obviously now off the

4:29 back of this and now that it all, you know, it's all come out

4:32 that there's far more stringent processes.

4:34 But it really highlights like back in the day that, you know,

4:38 rural, semi rural Queensland that was so desperate for

4:41 surgeons and so desperate for medical care that, yeah, it kind

4:44 of just this guy said he was a superstar and they believed him

4:48 and they felt lucky to have him. So really interesting story if

4:53 you want to get into that. It's called Sick to Death.

4:56 And yeah, I mean, Hedley Thomas is such an amazing investigative

5:00 reporter, so I always love his stuff.

5:02 Yeah. And then the other thing.

5:03 Oh, this just swoon. OK, so.

5:07 Totally different, like. Thank you.

5:09 Yeah. This one's not crimey at all,

5:12 really. Love Story, The John F Kennedy

5:16 and Carolyn Bessette. I keep seeing it pop up.

5:20 On Disney Plus, yeah, I. Think I'm going to watch that.

5:22 So the first 4 episodes are out so far and then I think every

5:25 week they're releasing the final episode.

5:27 So they dumped all they dumped 4 episodes 1st and now every now

5:31 it's weekly till I don't know how many there are.

5:33 Yeah, right. But Oh my God, yes.

5:35 Oh, just I just Carolyn Bessette.

5:39 I remember back in that she is just all class.

5:42 She never, I think in her whole time of being with JFK Junior,

5:47 she only ever did, I think, maybe one interview.

5:51 Yeah. And so she's sort of like a bit

5:53 of an enigma. No one really knew her.

5:56 And yet she was such an icon in so many ways.

5:59 And I mean, I just love the Kennedys.

6:03 And it's fascinating, so fascinating.

6:07 It's so incredibly fascinating, so highly from what I've seen.

6:10 I've watched the 4 episodes that have come out so far, but I

6:13 highly, highly, highly recommend it.

6:15 You have to get on it. You have to get on it.

6:17 Because, you know, you recommended The Pit to me right

6:20 now I have only watched one episode.

6:22 I have to admit I haven't. Like I've watched one and then

6:24 I've been to go back to it because.

6:25 You've had a busy week, yeah? It's been busy, busy.

6:27 But I have to agree with you about Noah.

6:31 Noah Wiley. Yeah.

6:34 I don't know what it is. It's got to be with the maturity

6:35 or something of him. He has a completely different

6:38 air about him to what he had back in the day of ERI.

6:42 Think his character in ER was he was like a bit of a cowboy, but

6:46 he was also a bit of a cowboy. Like sortie shit didn't stink

6:49 and you know, he was kind of a bit unlikeable in some ways.

6:54 But then there were obviously but.

6:55 Even daring times if it's the the the.

6:58 Facial hair. Stuff or just because I'm.

7:00 Did I, I don't know if I mentioned this when I told you

7:02 about the pit, but there's all these all these like women on

7:08 TikTok posting like thirst videos of Doctor Robbie when

7:13 he's like hand sanitizing. And so he'll go in hand

7:18 sanitizer and they're like swooning over the way he uses

7:20 the hand. Oh, no.

7:22 But when you watch it then so then you go and watch it and

7:24 you're like, oh, no, yeah, no, that is really fucking sexy.

7:27 OK, are. You using hand?

7:30 Oh, just wait until you get into.

7:32 It OK. I love how you just know that

7:34 it's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, I actually will.

7:36 I know you will. I know you're going to get into

7:39 this. I yes.

7:41 So it's it's just fucking hilarious.

7:42 That is so funny, but it's also just so I love the show We're up

7:47 to now week to week as well with that.

7:49 So Season 2, yeah. Season 2, yeah.

7:51 No, I've yeah, watched the first one.

7:53 I really enjoyed it. Really.

7:54 I'm like, I want, I want to watch this, but I want to give

7:56 it my attention. Yeah.

7:58 And so I'm kind of like, run, I'm gonna just put that aside

8:00 from moment because until I can actually watch an episode with

8:03 full focus. Yeah, and I was listening to a

8:05 podcast this week. I think it was Mama Mia Out

8:08 Loud, and it might have been last week, actually.

8:10 Now we're talking about how TV shows these days, they need to

8:13 really If you know a TV show is good if you watch it without

8:18 having your phone in your. Hands not playing like something

8:21 on my phone at the same time, which is so.

8:23 So true. So it's really hard to produce a

8:26 show these days where the screen that you're watching.

8:29 Yeah, as in, like the show is your secondary screen, your

8:33 primary screen's in front of you, it being your phone or your

8:36 iPad or whatever. Yeah.

8:37 And the pit for me is one this Carolyn, the love story, John F

8:42 Kennedy, Carolyn Bessette. Like no, no phone, like a. 100%

8:46 my only other way around that is by this gonna sound so stupid.

8:50 Maybe outing myself with something I don't know, but

8:52 like, and if it's got subtitles and I'm not talking the fact

8:55 that like they spill, they're speaking English, right?

8:58 But if there's subtitles, I need to read them to be able to hear

9:00 what they're saying. So I don't know what that is,

9:04 but it makes it easier to, I don't know, watch.

9:08 Yep, Yep. OK, OK.

9:10 Well then because then you're having to concentrate on reading

9:13 as well, so you can't look at your phone.

9:15 Yeah, yeah, OK. Because OK, that's fair.

9:17 That's the one that. You sent me to watch one of the

9:20 Korean ones. Yep.

9:21 And it's not, it's not in English, it's in Korean and it's

9:24 subtitled. Yeah, Yeah.

9:26 So. There is a dubbed version.

9:28 Is there I might have to give that a go because OK again,

9:32 maybe my weird brain but I convinced myself I speak Korean.

9:35 I think because I then don't keep up with the subtitles and

9:38 go and start focusing too much on listening to what they're

9:41 saying. Oh mate, and I don't know how.

9:42 To and then you're like hold on, wait, what?

9:43 What just happened? I'll.

9:45 Be like, you know, seeing I'm just seeing to kind of go, wait,

9:47 I actually don't speak Korean. I do need do need to read the

9:50 subtitles and I can't read the English subtitles and hear the

9:55 Korean. So I focus in on the Korean.

9:58 Maybe you need to, maybe you need to like turn the volume

10:01 down so that you're not listening and you're just

10:04 reading. But the fabulous.

10:05 Means I'm reading and then I don't like reading.

10:08 Yeah, but you'd be reading anyway.

10:09 Yeah, don't know. No, I'm not.

10:14 Yeah, I'm reading and listening in Korean.

10:16 Completely like trick the brain, but obviously it's I'm tricking

10:21 my own brain by convincing myself I speak Korean.

10:24 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, OK.

10:26 I'm. Glad you kind of go.

10:27 Yeah, you understand. I kind of do get that.

10:30 I actually kind of do. Get that.

10:32 Yeah, OK, cool. I just yeah, I was watching.

10:34 I can't do. I did like, I think at least one

10:37 episode, if not two or three before I went, yeah, I'm not

10:40 getting it because I don't speak Korean.

10:46 I love it. Oh God, it's amazing sometimes.

10:48 Seriously. Seriously, where do my kids get

10:50 it? From No, no, not at all.

10:52 Not at all. And then do you have any?

10:55 Have you like you, I know you've had a like a particularly busy

10:58 week this week, so you probably haven't been really watching or

11:01 I didn't have time for anything extra this week.

11:03 No, nothing. Literally, yeah.

11:05 Yeah, I've been either like on the computer doing like working

11:10 out fucking videos for the podcast, yeah or yeah, or doing

11:16 work stuff. So yeah, I haven't really

11:19 watched anything other than in the background maths kind.

11:21 Of thing. OK, sorry.

11:23 Some trade on. I haven't.

11:24 I'm not a maths person. I've never really been into it

11:28 or thing. Well, it's I feel like it

11:29 probably would be. My, I really do think it would

11:31 be. But The thing is, it's either

11:33 yeah, you're either gonna be all in or you're not.

11:34 That's right, gonna be all in you.

11:36 Can't if you don't have the time for.

11:37 It no, I don't normally, but one of my work colleagues is so into

11:42 it, actually a couple of them and they're always talking about

11:44 it and about the dinner parties and.

11:46 They feel like you. Watch.

11:47 Well, it sounds batshit. This fucking is crazy.

11:51 And then she was saying there's somebody on there like these

11:53 Trump sympathisers. And I'm like, oh, see, that for

11:57 me is like, Oh, no. I literally, I'm, I feel like I

12:00 get to a point with this now where I'm like, they're putting

12:01 people in danger. Yeah.

12:03 And I'm watching more for the fact of like, I feel like I need

12:05 to be protective of someone and I'm not watching because I enjoy

12:08 the show. I'm like watching it to kind of

12:09 go, I don't have to fucking stop this.

12:11 But then I know I'm part of the problem because I'm watching it,

12:14 but at the same time, but I'm watching it because I'm like, I

12:17 can't let this happen. It's a double edged sword.

12:19 Yeah, Yeah. And the misogyny that comes

12:22 through when they're talking about it, I'm like, why are we

12:24 just, you know what? OK.

12:25 This is another thing I watched actually recently, like within

12:29 the last couple of weeks, I watched the Tyra Banks.

12:33 So did I think? On Netflix.

12:35 It's on Netflix. Yeah, I watched that.

12:36 And it's like it's they're basically reviewing what

12:39 happened on America's. Did you watch it?

12:41 I used to watch America's jets total and I fuck is when I

12:43 watched saying yes, absolutely. But I loved it and I was so

12:48 compelled to watch it. But I remember watching that

12:51 thinking, oh fuck, I would never be that thin or I would.

12:54 I could never be like that, feeling inadequate watching it

12:56 right? When they bring out these plus

12:58 size. Models you go who are who are

13:00 like skinny as anything. She's normal size, yeah.

13:03 But even I would even say like skinny, skinny, yeah, not even

13:05 normal size. Normal skinny I would say I'd

13:08 put into like. Yeah, normal skinny supermodel

13:10 skinny. Anyway, what I was thinking was,

13:13 you know, they they're now looking back on America's Next

13:17 Top Model in this with the 2026 lens and going, Oh my God, we

13:22 could never produce a show like that.

13:24 Now that producer, they couldn't it.

13:26 Was I remember back then there was few, particularly there was

13:29 the one where they changed their ethnicities.

13:31 Oh yeah, I remember watching that going you can't do that.

13:34 Yeah, blackface. I mean, come on, that.

13:36 That was ridiculous. I can't even believe they did

13:38 that. I feel like we look back on this

13:42 with a 2026 lens and we see how problematic it was.

13:45 I know, I know. There there were aspects of it

13:47 that we saw as problematic in the 20, in the 2.

13:50 Thousand 2000 wasn't. It yeah.

13:52 But I think, you know, we've learned a lot more.

13:54 We've grown a lot more as a society and these things are

13:57 incredibly problematic. And that's, you know that that

14:02 is what it is. I think what got me the worst

14:04 about all of it in the IT was through a time where Tara Banks

14:08 got shamed on in magazines for wearing a swimsuit.

14:12 Remember when she came out on her talk show?

14:14 Yeah, wearing the exact same swimsuit swimsuit.

14:16 And she looked far slimmer than what they printed in the

14:20 magazine. Like it was it was all bullshit.

14:22 Yeah, kind of thing of like that.

14:23 Well, I mean, and she was saying like, who cares if I look like

14:26 what I look like, but don't make me look like something I'm not

14:28 for your magazines kind of thing.

14:30 Yeah. To sell magazines.

14:32 And then she was, you know, fat shaming women on her own show

14:35 with this, you know, Next Top Model that that got me even at

14:38 the time. Like how could she have not

14:39 realised she was doing the exact same thing?

14:41 I felt like in that in that Netflix documentary, yeah, I

14:46 felt like she took no responsibility.

14:48 She I I was, I actually can't stand her.

14:50 No, I can't. Whereas all the other players in

14:53 the game were all like, oh, we should not have said that.

14:55 We should not have done that. I'm.

14:56 Really sorry we did that. Yeah, he.

14:58 Was yeah, but then I think about maths, right?

15:01 Are we gonna in 1520 years time we're gonna look back on that

15:05 and go what the fuck were we doing?

15:07 Although we see it now. Everyone's it's been called out.

15:10 Now, but but why then why are they producing the shows?

15:12 People people watch it exactly. It's vicious cycle, but that's

15:15 the thing. So as a society, we need to be

15:17 better and not pay heed. To want to see on math.

15:20 Essentially. Is like these put inverted

15:23 commas Absolutely experts. We I want to see them calling it

15:28 out. I want people to watch maths and

15:31 learn how to do relationships better.

15:35 And if I guess on that show, the the experts really called them

15:39 out. And I mean, there's little bits

15:40 here and there you get, but not a hell of a lot.

15:43 Yeah. But if they called them out

15:45 more, that's what I want to say. Agreed.

15:49 I mean, not that I watch it, but yes, you're right.

15:51 That would be a way that this, you know, quote, UN quote,

15:54 social experiment can actually benefit somebody.

15:58 Yes, as opposed to it just being fodder and drama and and

16:01 damaging to people and also to the people who are watching.

16:04 Like I think if young people are watching these relationships

16:07 online, like on a show that's glorified, really, do they think

16:12 that that's what a relationship is?

16:14 Because no. I think that's where I might,

16:17 yeah. These people are watching it

16:18 that I'd hope that someone could sit and watch this show and kind

16:21 of go, oh, right. I shouldn't like say that to my

16:24 girlfriend in the future or, or treat my my my male partner that

16:28 way. Or, you know, learn how to, like

16:30 talk to each other and, you know, be emotionally

16:33 intelligent. Like, if we can learn those

16:35 things from the show, OK, put your drama on there, but then do

16:40 the corrective behaviour with the psychologists.

16:43 Again, inverted comments. Yeah.

16:45 I think they all are trained. But yeah, it's just, yeah, it'll

16:50 be, it's interesting. I hope that it, I hope it takes

16:52 more of a turn if they're going to put these kind of people on

16:54 there, then actually make them do the work because I think it's

16:59 a bit, I know that we don't see everything in that, you know,

17:02 how much time they sit on these couches and they talk to the

17:05 experts. I'm sure that that's a a

17:07 lengthy, lengthy process of a day of filming.

17:10 And we only get what they want us to see.

17:13 But like, we need to see the actual change.

17:17 Yeah, yeah. Watch this space, I guess, yeah.

17:21 I just in depth conversation about maths.

17:23 Maths though, it just seems a bit too high, high high level

17:26 for it. Yeah, yeah, fair.

17:30 All right, let's get into some shout.

17:32 Outs. Yes.

17:33 Shout outs. Oh my gosh.

17:34 This so we've got heaps I've got, I've got like a whole page

17:37 I've got. So firstly, to our new Patreons,

17:41 Azami Echo, Sherry Lee, Tara Sheehan and Aisha Steele.

17:46 Thank you all for joining us. Very, very much appreciated.

17:49 Yes, buy me a coffees. We've had Ewan Giles, who's a

17:52 former Victoria Police detective who I know who listened to one

17:56 of our episodes because it pertained to a case that he was

17:59 somehow involved with. Yeah, and he said he really

18:02 enjoyed our the way we did it and he he bought us some coffee.

18:05 So thank you very much. And then our next shout out is

18:08 to Louise Milne and her husband. I love that she didn't give us a

18:10 name for the husband. No, just husband and my husband.

18:13 They are currently driving from Melbourne to WA across the

18:17 Nullarbor and listening to Outback catalog.

18:20 I think so. Sorry guys, but that, Louise

18:24 said blow the coffee and get yourselves a wine.

18:26 So, all right, I mean, if you insist, OK, fine.

18:29 Stop breaking your arm, Louise. She also said to thank Stacey

18:34 Newland for the reco. So thanks to Stacey as well for

18:38 doing what we need people to do and spreading the word.

18:40 So thank you. I love Ewan's comment because it

18:43 blows a comment we got out on Spotify out the.

18:45 Woods. That's gonna mention to you, I

18:48 say. Tell everyone what it was.

18:50 It was so funny. Well, this is basically that we

18:52 hadn't researched an episode enough.

18:54 Yeah, but clearly we do if the if a police officer from an

18:56 actual case is telling us that we've done, we did a good job.

18:59 So there you go, Anthony. Yeah, but also, Anthony, do you

19:03 really need to comment? Well, no.

19:05 And the thing was that I love the thing, OK?

19:07 That particular case that they commented on too is divisive for

19:10 some people. I get that.

19:11 And I think what I read from the comment was, well, we just

19:13 clearly have different views on it.

19:14 Yeah. So how much research we did is

19:16 your issue? It's just that we researched it

19:18 and made a different. Opinion to what?

19:20 Yeah. You have on it and that's fine.

19:22 That's absolutely. Tell us why you have this other

19:24 opinion rather than criticizing our research.

19:27 That's right, because that is something I'll back every day.

19:29 100% I mean, we spend so much time putting this together, it

19:33 really. Do we have We don't have all the

19:35 knowledge. We admit that we don't. 100% we

19:39 know we're never going to be able to research everything.

19:41 We give ourselves a week a week research for an episode.

19:44 You know, sometimes less. Sometimes less exactly, So we

19:46 don't always have enough time. So there are often things when

19:49 we hit record that I'm like, fuck, I forgot to look into that

19:51 or I didn't have time. To and because we don't script,

19:53 we sometimes do leave it missing.

19:55 We admit that we get to the end of it and kind of go we go and

19:57 have our wine maybe rather than coffee.

20:00 Yeah, after this and you know, and we say, you know, Oh my God,

20:02 we didn't. Mention well, we didn't talk

20:04 about this aspect of it, but you know what that's what makes our

20:07 podcast our podcast. So thank you to everybody who

20:10 loves it. Now the other thing is I had a

20:16 so the BFT that I go to. Oh yes, one of our my the guy

20:22 who owns it put another member in touch with us.

20:25 Yeah, who also has his own podcast, true crime podcast.

20:30 Yeah, not his own true crime podcast called True Crime

20:32 tradies. I actually haven't had a chance

20:34 to have a full listen yet, but that's it's definitely on my

20:37 list to have a I've. Checked out the socials.

20:39 Yes, from like the. Link that from like where he was

20:41 and I had a look at that. That's all.

20:42 I've been able to have time to do this.

20:44 Week, Yeah. So they're definitely in their

20:46 infancy in terms of yeah of getting their at.

20:48 Least maybe 7 episodes or. Something was something like

20:51 that, so good on them. Absolutely.

20:52 We know where we were at at 7 episodes.

20:54 So we we know that feeling, yeah.

20:56 Absolutely. So yeah, if, if that's if you've

20:59 got time to check out a new podcast, that might be one.

21:02 Yeah. Let us know what you think

21:03 because we actually haven't had a chance to go and do that

21:05 ourselves yet. But thanks to John for getting

21:07 in contact with us. It's very.

21:09 Do all the all the true crime podcasters hang out at your gym?

21:12 Apparently, apparently, like, what are the chances?

21:15 I mean, what are the chances? Hold on.

21:16 There's like 50 million bloody true crime podcasts out there.

21:20 So high chance, I guess. But yeah, no, it's, it's really

21:24 cool that people are giving it a go.

21:26 Absolutely. And then the last shout out I

21:30 have is a massive, massive congratulations to one of our

21:33 patreons, Roo, who had a baby during the week.

21:36 So we've got our newest little bestie who's just been born.

21:40 And I hope our podcast can keep you company while you're up all

21:44 hours breastfeeding or feeding and doing whatever it is that

21:47 babies need overnight. The fun we.

21:49 All know those we all have well you know those kids have all

21:53 been there Meg and I have certainly been there so we.

21:55 Hope that your baby maybe sleeps at points so you can listen to

21:58 podcasts. Yeah, that's right.

21:59 And what's more soothing to a new mum than with true crime

22:05 podcast Overnight? Absolutely nothing.

22:07 I'm sorry. I think I've, I think I've

22:08 spoken about this before, but I listened to The Teacher's Pet

22:11 when Lucas was born and that was what got me through them.

22:13 You know the overnight feed. Absolutely.

22:16 So Yep, there's something to be said for that for sure.

22:19 So congratulations. Congratulations, Roof.

22:22 Fantastic. But yeah, in that newborn

22:24 bubble, that's the best. Oh, I love it.

22:27 I see little babies and I go, oh, and then you think, Oh no,

22:32 I'm done. As we talk about our nine year.

22:37 Olds. The frustration of a nine year

22:40 old boy. Oh my God.

22:43 Yeah, I forget. It's always I forget.

22:46 Yep. Oh, kill me now.

22:48 Yep, you know what, even annoyed?

22:49 I actually didn't bring this up. But what's also been annoying me

22:52 is how slow Lucas is with everything.

22:55 I think I said to you this morning, it took him bloody

22:58 nearly an hour to get dressed and put his shoes on this

23:01 morning, which was our little fight.

23:03 But then even how long it takes him to get out of the car.

23:07 On the kissing go. Yeah, and where are efficient

23:10 kissing goers? I actually had to park today

23:13 because I had to go into the school for something.

23:15 God, I was like I was out of the car, around to the side.

23:20 He hadn't even opened his door yet.

23:21 Wait, no. Like no hurry, don't worry, I've

23:24 got all day to stand here and wait weirdly.

23:26 Enough. The minute you say to them.

23:27 Come on, hurry up. Yeah, or they can go slower I.

23:31 Don't know if it's 100% they'll find a way.

23:34 Like it's like, Oh yeah, but can you take my bag?

23:37 I'm like, no. Life is so hard for a nine year

23:40 old. So hard.

23:41 When you're 9, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

23:44 Oh, kill me now, OK. All this to look forward to,

23:47 Ruth. It's.

23:49 So good. No, it's great.

23:50 It's great. They're great, they're great.

23:51 It's all good, it's all good. Just enjoy what you've got right

23:53 now. When they can't talk back, you

23:56 can make them be as fast as you need them to be, say.

23:59 Shit like no cap mom, no cap whatever.

24:01 I don't even. I don't actually even know what

24:03 that means. Somebody was lying, I think, but

24:05 like, I don't know, it's cap and no cap and I don't know which

24:07 way around it goes. Oh God, I'm gonna have to Google

24:09 some shit. OK, let's get bra.

24:12 Oh, bra. Yep, let hey bro, let's get into

24:15 the episode, bro. All right, second episode.

24:19 If you haven't listened to Part 1 of the Murdoch Family yeah

24:25 podcast that we released last week, please go ahead and do so

24:29 because, yeah, there is a lot of context that you will miss if

24:33 you don't go back and listen to these in order.

24:35 So pretty much what we spoke about last week was this Murdoch

24:40 family who are a very prominent family in South Carolina,

24:44 Hampton County. They are involved in the legal

24:47 fraternity there and have a lot of power and influence in that,

24:52 in that respect. And there have there were a lot

24:56 of things that happened that sort of have led us to the point

24:58 where we're gonna talk about for today's episode.

25:00 So that includes there were two very, you know, fairly

25:05 suspicious deaths that were that had happened and then a boat

25:08 crash that was also just absolutely horrific and resulted

25:13 in the death of Mallory Beach. So we're picking up from where

25:17 we left off last week and we are actually now discussing what is

25:22 to me and this just I it, it's unfathomable.

25:29 To me, yeah. What happened here and how the

25:33 process of this all unfolded? Yes.

25:36 So we're talking about now we're in June, the 7th of June in 2021

25:42 we're at Moselle. Oh, just really quickly, sorry,

25:45 before we get into it, last week Peter was listening to our

25:48 podcast and he's like, you can do a southern accent because

25:52 that's the whole reason we chose Piper's name, our little puppy's

25:54 name. And so we the reason we chose

25:58 the name Piper was because Peter and I absolutely love the White

26:01 Lotus. Yes, at TV show and in the last

26:04 series, Parker Posey's daughter was named Piper.

26:08 And her biggest thing was Piper No, and that was actually why

26:14 why we why we chose Piper's name.

26:17 Lucas actually came up with it because Peter and I would just

26:19 Piper know everything. And so, yeah, so he's like, you

26:23 can do at least those, at least those two, OK.

26:26 Ish. Well, I I practice over the

26:28 week. Go.

26:28 OK, All right. Ready.

26:30 OK, Mr. Alec, you're a piece of shit.

26:35 That's not bad. Better than what you did last

26:37 week. I like the Mr. Alec.

26:43 Mr. Alec? Yeah, because.

26:45 That's like it's Miss Maggie and Mr. Alec.

26:47 It must be a whole, like it's a Southern.

26:49 Thing. Yeah, like, yeah, like everyone

26:50 was Yeah. With that Maggie, Yeah, Yeah.

26:53 All right, So now serious. Sorry about that.

26:55 I just had to get that out, though.

26:57 So it's because I was about to say Moselle, and I feel like I

27:01 can't say Moselle without saying Moselle.

27:03 Moselle OK, I think I've gotten it out of my.

27:07 Sister, we're good now. So 7th of June 2021 at the

27:10 property at 4147 Moselle Road. Now this house is on a 1700 acre

27:19 estate in Arlington, South Carolina.

27:22 Yeah, now this when I say to me, you say 1700 acres and that

27:27 means literally fucking nothing to me.

27:30 But you can look at aerial photos of the property and it is

27:34 vast and sprawling, so much so that they could go hunting on

27:38 their property. There was like creeks through

27:40 the property and like water bits.

27:42 They had forest they had like, it was just massive.

27:47 And on the property they had quite a lot of like they had

27:50 their home and then they had outer dwellings as well.

27:54 So there was a kennel shed and some a feeding house sort of

27:59 thing. They had other little barns and

28:02 other storage sheds and that kind of thing for feed and for

28:06 farming equipment because it would take a lot to maintain a

28:09 property of that. Size.

28:11 This wasn't the Murdoch's only property.

28:15 They had many. They had a beach house.

28:19 They had properties in several states, They had other

28:23 properties in South Carolina as well that were inhabited.

28:27 They would sort of pick and choose and go around.

28:30 But from what I can gather, I think Mozel was a property where

28:33 they spent a pretty significant amount of time.

28:36 Beautiful home. I think we spoke in last weeks

28:38 episode about the type of home that Maggie, Miss Maggie, liked

28:43 to keep, which was a very well decorated home.

28:46 She was very house proud. Yeah, which you look at the

28:50 house and you think, Oh yeah, that like it is.

28:52 It was very nice on the outside and photos that I've seen of the

28:55 inside. It is it's lovely.

28:56 It's very well appointed, very well decorated.

28:59 And then you look at other things on the property and

29:01 you're like, it was dilapidated and rundown and not well

29:04 maintained. Did you get that that impression

29:06 as well? Yeah, absolutely.

29:07 But it's kind of just like what farms like, you know, that sort

29:10 of I suppose. I guess as you say, it takes so

29:12 much to maintain these things that over time it's I guess they

29:16 have a bit of a charm to them if they're not brand new on a, on a

29:19 property like that. Does that make sense too?

29:21 Yeah, Like, yeah. I just, you know, the thing that

29:24 struck me was that, you know, a lot of those outer houses and

29:29 like, in particular, we'll be talking about the kennels a lot

29:31 in the room in the kennels. And you see photos of it and

29:34 it's got exposed like bats. Yeah.

29:37 You know, there's no dry what Americans call drywall.

29:40 There's no diprock around. Yeah.

29:42 And it's. So it's all like sort of exposed

29:44 and it looks unfinished to me. Yeah, but I get that.

29:47 Like or typical. Of but yeah, I guess the exposed

29:50 nature of things like that's typical of like, you know,

29:52 farming sheds and stuff. You don't put, you don't put

29:55 Diprock into those places because it only does get damaged

29:58 and it's not where, it's not where you're living.

30:00 It's not, you know, it's not that purpose, I guess.

30:02 Yeah. So I guess it gets that wear and

30:04 tear and quicker than other places.

30:07 Yeah, that's completely fair. Yeah.

30:09 So, yeah, so they're on this sprawling property and on the

30:13 night in question, we know what it's.

30:16 It's really hard to say what we know and what, well, we'll talk

30:19 about what we about what Alec's story is.

30:22 Should we go from his perspective first?

30:24 Yeah. Kendrick Yeah, yeah.

30:26 Yeah. OK.

30:27 So on the night, what Alec says is that the three of them.

30:31 So this is Paul, Maggie and Alec.

30:35 Yeah, had dinner together around 7 or about 7:00 PM and they they

30:42 had a lovely dinner which I believe was prepared by their

30:44 new housekeeper. Yes, it was because typically

30:48 the housekeeper said that she, yeah, yeah, she would.

30:53 She'd been asked to make that meal.

30:54 And that could happen quite often.

30:55 And I think we spoke about that in terms of with Gloria, Gloria,

30:59 how that would happen. But what she had such a great

31:02 relationship with their housekeepers and things like

31:03 that. What would happen is they would

31:04 then the family wouldn't eat that meal.

31:06 And Maggie would quite often then message or phone the the

31:10 housekeeper of the time and say, you know, like, thank you so

31:12 much for the meal. It was delicious.

31:13 Like we, you know, we had it just now or.

31:16 We really enjoyed the real aspect of it or whatever.

31:18 So I mean, which I think it's lovely that she didn't just

31:19 dismiss it like, you know, you made the meal for us and then

31:21 never spoke of it again. Like for someone to go to that,

31:24 that was always acknowledged that it was done.

31:26 I feel like that also shows the nature of their relationship.

31:29 So it was like to Maggie obviously as well, It was

31:32 obviously a friendship because yeah, if that was just somebody

31:35 who you employed and you didn't really have any feelings

31:38 towards, you may not do that or you might maybe mention it in

31:41 passing next time you saw them. But Blanca says very clearly in

31:47 interviews that she would often call, like, make a phone call to

31:50 say that was a really. Lovely meal.

31:52 Yeah, and this particular evening she didn't get that

31:55 message, which she found unusual.

31:56 Yeah, she just said she was sort of semi expecting it in a way.

32:00 Yeah, because it was not that she.

32:01 That was the. Normal that's right.

32:03 Not because she was like, oh, when's she gonna call me to tell

32:05 me how good my, how keep my It was more like she always calls

32:09 or messages and she was sort of like, oh, that was weird that

32:11 she didn't do that. Yes.

32:13 What Alec then says is that he fell asleep on the couch and he

32:17 doesn't really know what happened after that.

32:20 All he knows is that when he woke up, Maggie and Paul were

32:23 not in the house. And he assumed they'd gone for a

32:27 walk, which sometimes they did after dinner, maybe had gone

32:30 down to check the dogs. Because I think it's, you know,

32:34 the, the fact that they were on a working farm meant that they

32:37 had working dogs. And these working dogs were kept

32:39 in literally in kennel cages. Although having said that, now

32:44 many people say say that Maggie did not go down to those kennels

32:48 at night on No she did not like she didn't feel safe down there

32:53 at night. I think she was scared and it

32:55 was dark. There was no not much lighting

32:56 down there and she wasn't someone who liked that.

33:00 So it was it was unusual that she had gone there.

33:02 Yeah, very out of character. Very out of character, Yeah.

33:06 Alex says he then woke up from his nap.

33:08 Now at this stage, his father had terminal cancer and his

33:12 mother was in the fairly advanced stages of Alzheimer's

33:16 and or slash dementia. Yeah.

33:19 Was still living at home but had an in home nurse who would like

33:23 around the clock. She had an like several people

33:25 who rotated through shifts around the day.

33:27 Yeah, Alec says that he sent a text message to Maggie and Paul.

33:32 It was. What time was that around?

33:33 So he 902902. And it's basically saying that

33:39 he was going to go and check on his mum and he'd be back because

33:42 he didn't know where they were. No, he's then gone and driven to

33:46 his mum's house now. I believe it was about a 20

33:49 minute drive away, is that right?

33:51 No, no it wasn't. It was quite close.

33:52 Quite close. No, it was only like about or

33:55 well put it this way, he texted Maggie he left the property at 9

33:59 O 6 and he arrived at 9:20 at his mother's place, OK,

34:03 According to him. OK, Yeah.

34:04 And the nurse sort of verifies that the nurse who Shelly, who

34:08 was on on shift that night, she does verify with his mom.

34:13 She also says that he came in with a blue jacket and he was

34:19 not settled. He came in and he didn't stay

34:22 for very long, according to Shelley.

34:24 To her, yeah. According to Alec, he stayed.

34:27 Till 944, yeah. So 20 odd minutes, maybe 30

34:31 minutes, and then he's gone back home.

34:33 Shelley says that he's left the blue jacket there and he's

34:37 headed back home. And supposedly arrived there

34:40 about 10:00 PM, yeah. And but let but didn't stay very

34:43 long at all. No.

34:45 Then he headed down to the kennels from there.

34:46 Yeah. So he's, yeah, he's gone back to

34:48 the property at Moselle and has gone down to the kennels looking

34:53 for Paul and Maggie. Now he hasn't, I don't believe,

34:56 gone back into the house. So how did he know they hadn't

34:59 come back there? That's a question I've got

35:01 that's never really been raised funny that, which I find

35:04 interesting. He's gone down to the kennels

35:07 and he has, According to him, found Maggie and Paul on the

35:12 floor, bleeding on the ground. Sorry, bleeding.

35:16 He immediately calls 911. So.

35:18 The Nine on one call goes through at 10:06 PM.

35:21 OK. Yeah, Now at 10:06 PM, you can

35:24 listen to the 911 call. Alex, we talked about this in

35:28 the episode last week and this is very important.

35:31 Alex's voice is very distinctive.

35:34 Yeah, he sounds quite distressed on the phone, but then I'll talk

35:41 about that in a SEC. He sounds quite distressed on

35:43 the phone. He's saying that he doesn't

35:45 think they're breathing. And, you know, obviously

35:48 emergency services are sent out to.

35:51 An interesting question. Well, a statement that said on

35:54 the, on the 911 call and his, well, his reaction to that is

35:57 interesting. They're the 911 call.

35:59 It says, you know, ask, they're breathing.

36:01 And he goes, no, I don't think so.

36:02 And then she says, well, don't touch them, right?

36:05 Because it's a crime scene. Like, you know, if he's stumbled

36:07 across these people who, you know, have just been murdered,

36:10 so don't touch them. He's and he says immediately, I

36:13 already have, I have to check if they were breathing and things,

36:16 which I at a point I, I understand like doing that as a

36:18 family. I mean as if you would just

36:20 stand there or not just look at them.

36:21 You. Would touch my God, I'd be all

36:23 over them. I couldn't do that, couldn't do

36:24 anything but. But the way he answers that is

36:28 so. Calculated.

36:31 Yeah. No, it is.

36:32 Yeah, it's very. I already have.

36:34 I've done this, this, this like it's very.

36:37 Yeah, I just find that interesting.

36:38 Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too.

36:40 So the police and EMS arrive on scene and the first, I guess,

36:47 interview that takes place with Alec is in the police car.

36:51 There are there's video of it and audio obviously to accompany

36:56 that. And apparently this is not an

36:58 uncommon thing for the area for people to be interviewed in the

37:02 police cars. And that's why they're set up

37:04 with the equipment that they're set up with.

37:05 Yeah, now Alec goes through his version of events and he is.

37:13 I watch him and I shudder. Yeah, he is.

37:17 So now I know we don't know how we would react in a situation

37:22 where we, quote UN quote, just found our son and wife murdered.

37:27 And I know people react differently in these incredibly

37:31 stressful situations. There is nothing about his

37:35 reaction though that makes me think he's suffered a trauma.

37:39 No, it's very. He's very, he's not crying, he's

37:43 not distressed. He's just sort of sitting there.

37:45 He's actually almost sitting there like irritated or

37:48 something. Yeah, yeah.

37:50 He's like, you know, the way he's sitting, I just feel like

37:52 he's not. He's.

37:53 Uncomfortable. He's he's uncomfortable, yeah.

37:56 Agitated, maybe. Yes.

37:58 Yes, but not agitated in the way that like, yeah, that I'm

38:00 distressed about my family. No, it's more like get this over

38:03 and done. Think about my answers, whereas

38:05 to me in that situation, I wouldn't be thinking about my

38:08 responses. I would just be responding.

38:10 I can understand that. I can I can come at the not

38:12 crying, like the shock of it. Agree and I'm not actually, is

38:15 it not actually fully hitting you?

38:16 What's happened? Yep, I can understand that on a

38:18 on a psychological level. Yep, But I can see responses

38:22 just being very automatic and not being thought too much about

38:25 like because you're just kind of going.

38:27 You're like on autopilot. Whereas you can see him really

38:31 considering his answers. Yes, yeah, yes.

38:35 Which, OK, he's a lawyer, all right.

38:38 Maybe. But your lawyer hat would come

38:40 off this. This is.

38:41 I really do think that too. Yes, yeah, yeah.

38:45 The other thing is, I mean, it's well, he knows all these

38:49 officers. What majority of them?

38:50 The main one. No, she's a new officer to the

38:54 scene and is not familiar with the Murdoch's.

38:58 She's new to the area and everything, which I think is

39:00 probably key to this investigation.

39:03 She's immediately introduced to him, as you know, and made

39:07 aware, but she was not aware of the Murdoch's as as many of

39:12 other law enforcement were. Well, they were friends with the

39:14 Murdoch. 'S anyone in law enforcement?

39:17 They've been there for barbecues and had socialized with them.

39:20 And, you know, you know, given the political nature of the

39:25 solicitor role, which is like a District Attorney role that Alec

39:28 held, there was, you know, a lot of ceremonial stuff that they

39:32 were involved in together and work things that they're

39:34 involved with together as well. So they knew each other on

39:37 multiple levels. Yes.

39:38 And so I feel like I, when I first saw that he was

39:45 interviewed in the police car, it made me go.

39:49 But then I, I don't find out that that's actually fairly

39:51 common practice for, for the South Carolina police, law

39:56 enforcement. So they're often referred to as

39:58 SLED, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division.

40:01 State Law Enforcement Division as well.

40:03 I sort of referred to as both. Both, yeah, OK.

40:05 Yeah, I I found everywhere it's written differently, right.

40:07 It's between the two. Yeah, yeah.

40:10 So what we know is that Paul, who was 22 at the time, it was

40:15 found in the feed room or storage area of the kennels.

40:19 So there were, you know, maybe I don't know, 8 to 10 kennels,

40:22 caged kennels side by side. Yeah.

40:25 And then at the very end of that, there was a feed room and

40:28 he was found. It's an enclosed space.

40:30 So it's an enclosed room with one door.

40:32 Tiny. Like quite small, like all it

40:34 needed. Really like less.

40:35 Probably like meter and a half wide kind of thing, Yeah, you

40:38 know, like an outhouse kind of thing, you know.

40:41 Size. What it meant was that the

40:44 gunshot blast was confined to that room and or slightly

40:49 outside as well. Because he was actually shot

40:51 twice. They believe that he was shot

40:55 and that first shot didn't kill him.

40:57 He sort of stumbled. He's got gone.

40:59 Back well, they reckon, no, they reckon he he he was shot the

41:03 first time and he wouldn't have seen who shot him.

41:05 Because he was facing. He was.

41:06 Facing the other way, he was facing into the into that.

41:09 He's then spun like, because like he's like, you know what

41:12 the hell? And it hasn't killed him, but

41:14 he's sort of lurched forward to and like to exit the room.

41:18 And as he's come towards the door, they, they reckon he would

41:21 have seen who shot him then. Yeah, he's then been shot again

41:25 as he's exiting and so that's where his body has landed

41:27 outside of the the doorway, but. Basically all of the matter was

41:31 contained within within that room.

41:33 Yes, both of them were very close range shots.

41:36 Yes, very close range. Then Maggie, who was 52 at the

41:40 time of her death, was found near a large oak tree just

41:43 outside the kennel. So the kennels are sort of in

41:45 the middle of like a a bit of a forest area.

41:47 There's a clearing where the kennels are and there's another

41:50 building sort of next to them, like a barn type of building.

41:54 It's like sort of they might, I think it was like tractors or

41:56 something stored in there, I think hay, et cetera.

41:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there was a line of oak

42:01 trees, and she was found sort of near 1 of the oak trees.

42:04 And she was face down at the time.

42:07 And she had five gunshot wounds to her body that were made with

42:10 an AR15. Yeah.

42:13 So there were three of those shots were shot from further

42:15 away. Yeah, the final two shots were

42:18 to the head and close range. Yeah, which I find interesting.

42:23 Yeah, isn't it? And so that just goes to show

42:26 like she would have definitely known who had shot her.

42:29 Yes. And it's how horrific she would

42:36 have seen Paul. They believe Paul was killed

42:38 first. Yeah, she would have seen.

42:41 Or at least heard the gunshots and.

42:43 Potentially coming to like, you know.

42:45 Like, what's that noise? Yeah, yeah.

42:47 And turned Yeah. Yeah, just quickly about AR

42:49 fifteens, just to break this up just a little bit, have you

42:53 heard the song, The song about Australia's deadliest animals?

42:58 It's actually really funny. But every time I hear the word

43:02 AR15, it makes me think of the song because it's talking about

43:04 how Australia's got all these dead deadly animals like red

43:07 back spiders and sharks and stuff like that.

43:10 And then the chorus is at least we don't have AR15, you know?

43:15 And then it talks about like all the shit that happens in the

43:17 States with like, you know, semi automatic weapons, yes, that are

43:21 then used in mass shootings and suicides and all that sort of

43:24 stuff. So yeah, listen, listen to it.

43:27 It's actually quite a good song. But basically the the point of

43:32 contention here, I think for the police is that the two different

43:38 shot, two different guns were used in the perpetration of this

43:42 crime, both long rifles, both long rifles.

43:45 But different weapons that's. Right.

43:46 So one was a 12 gauge shotgun, which has like the slug type

43:49 ammunition, which was used to kill Paul.

43:53 Then the AR15 was used to kill Maggie.

43:56 Maggie. Now I don't know if this means

43:59 anything to anyone, but it was like a blackout 300 rifle.

44:02 And so apparently that's like a particular type of bullet that

44:06 was used. Yeah.

44:09 It's just I wonder Maggie's injuries to me, was she, did she

44:16 hear gunshots and was she sort of running away?

44:21 And then I think. She was running towards to be

44:22 honest. So, but then, so where were the

44:24 do you think it was once she was shot and then fell forward that

44:27 the ones were done in her back? So she I've seen recreations of

44:32 it, yeah, of her. So she's coming towards Yep.

44:36 And that's why they kind of story say that she knew who it

44:38 was that was standing there because she was like, what was

44:40 that? And potentially like, rather

44:42 than running away because she was like, did you hear that as

44:44 well? Almost like coming towards and

44:47 then she's got the three shots from the front and as she's

44:51 fallen, because one's gone through twice, like 1's gone

44:53 through her. I think it was her shoulder and

44:55 then through her leg. So there's more bullet wounds

44:59 than there are bullets that were used.

45:02 And then as when then when she's on the ground, she was already

45:05 dead. She was dead, but there was two

45:08 more shots. Right.

45:09 OK, to the back of the head, yeah.

45:11 Yeah, OK. Just to really make sure.

45:13 Yeah, she was dead. Dead.

45:14 Yeah, but she was. The coroner has confirmed that

45:17 she would have died from there was a previous a previous bullet

45:20 before those two went through. Yeah, OK.

45:22 Yeah, what a horrific, horrific way.

45:25 To yeah, I think, I think it was like the second or the third

45:27 bullet would have killed her. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

45:30 So I guess now the police are like, OK, we need to figure out

45:33 exactly what's going on here because we've had the murder of

45:36 two really prominent people. Yeah.

45:38 Now one of the things that Alex says in that first interview,

45:41 while he's in the car with the quickly, very quickly, Yeah.

45:46 He's like, oh, no, sorry. He says it on the 911 call.

45:48 He does. I think he does.

45:49 He says that, oh, you know, my son Paul, people have got it out

45:55 for him. He was the one who was involved

45:56 in that boat accident a couple of years ago.

45:58 Now this incident, this death, these murders took place, I

46:02 believe it was a week before Paul was used to be to go to

46:07 trial for Mallory's death. Yes, yeah.

46:12 Now interesting timing. Yeah.

46:14 So in that in that trial, he was facing quite possibly 55 years

46:19 in jail. Yeah.

46:20 So I mean, he's a 21 year old kid at this point.

46:23 I mean, you're looking at pretty much the majority of the rest of

46:26 his life was, Oh, yeah, very high chance looking like being

46:28 spent in prison. Yeah, yeah.

46:31 Doesn't matter who your daddy is when you've done something.

46:33 Well, it does because they weren't convinced because there

46:36 was so many ways you'd get around it.

46:38 Yeah, I was actually looking at some stuff the other night about

46:40 the other families from the boating accident and them trying

46:45 to get a lawyer in terms for that trial and there and having

46:49 representation because there was basically all that.

46:53 All the defence for Paul had to do was provide reasonable doubt

46:57 that he was driving right, Nothing more.

47:00 That's all they had to do. Now.

47:02 Many of the statements had been tampered with.

47:04 So there there was inference that, you know, Connor could

47:07 have been driving. So Connor.

47:08 Needed the lawyers last week. Yeah, so Connor needed a lawyer.

47:11 Guess who the Murdochs directed the their family to?

47:15 Corey Fleming. The same person they directed

47:18 Gloria Satterfield's family too. So.

47:20 So that's that was Alex, older brother's best mate.

47:24 And and Godfather Paul, yeah. So there was many connections.

47:29 So they got rid of him eventually, like like pretty

47:31 quickly because they they. Realized the conflict, yeah, so.

47:34 Then they had to go and approach other lawyers.

47:36 It was said to this family, like verbatim right by other lawyers

47:40 that they approached that they wouldn't go up against the

47:45 Murdochs. One lawyer in particular said to

47:49 them that if Buster was still alive, who is Alex?

47:53 Grandfather. Paul's great grandfather, if he

47:56 was still alive, Connor would be crab meat by now and wouldn't be

48:00 a problem. So be glad that that's where

48:04 this is at, that you even are looking for a lawyer because

48:08 that's how bad you're getting involved in this.

48:11 I So I don't want a part of it, you know, like, wow.

48:14 Yeah. Fucking hell, this family.

48:18 It goes way back. Holy shit.

48:22 Yeah. Oh, that's terrifying.

48:24 So the Murdock's are more like the mafia than we've I think

48:27 really focused on in the past. Like, you know what I mean?

48:30 They're more and more. I deep dived into this.

48:32 There are so many connections to so many.

48:34 Things. That's insane.

48:35 Particularly Buster. He was known to be quite evil.

48:38 Buster senior, yes. Not, not, not.

48:42 Alex, not Alex. Sonya, I've got the fucking

48:44 family tree. I know, I know with all.

48:46 The Randalls and Busters. Randalls.

48:49 Jesus, Yeah, there's too many of them, Yeah.

48:51 So, yeah, so you know, Alex already trying to spin a story,

48:56 isn't he that. Oh, my God, this is somebody's.

48:58 This is a revenge killing. Yes.

49:00 And like, Maggie must have been collateral damage.

49:03 Oh. And look.

49:04 Oh, what I forgot to mention as well.

49:06 Is Maggie there? There was some scuttlebutt, you

49:11 know, there's, you know, there's rumours that go around in these

49:14 small towns all of the time. Maggie and Alec, their marriage

49:18 wasn't amazing, right? Well, OK, apparently this is

49:23 what majority of people say about their marriage was that

49:26 they were very much in love. OK.

49:28 Very much. Yep.

49:30 However, they loved each other, but at this point in time, were

49:35 they in love? Right?

49:37 So there is conjecture around whether or not they were on the

49:43 rocks or not. OK.

49:45 Well, you know, think there's, there's stories out there and

49:49 rumors out there that Maggie had actually engaged with a divorce

49:53 attorney and was trying to figure out options.

49:56 She hadn't been staying at Moselle very frequently.

49:59 No, she was staying at the Edisto house in by the.

50:01 Beach by the beach. And so on this particular night,

50:04 Alec had called her home. Yeah.

50:06 And had called Paul home, too. And this was part of the reason

50:10 that Blanca Blanca had to make dinner for them because Maggie

50:13 didn't actually get home. And I think it was like 7:00

50:15 basically when they were about to start eating dinner.

50:18 So. And I believe Paul was, you

50:21 know, not that far before her. So the reason that Alec called

50:25 them back, we don't know. We don't even know if that

50:28 situation is true and correct. That's that's sort of a rumour

50:32 that is going around. Things We only have Alex's side

50:35 of story, and they have. Blankers as well she does say

50:37 that that Maggie wasn't was at the beach house and that she.

50:41 Had no no, that's that's fact that day what we only have

50:44 Alex's side of things on is what the relationship was like and

50:48 what the the guy was there because.

50:50 To me, where there's smoke, there's fire.

50:52 Like I feel like his. Take on it is that she was

50:54 staying at Edisto not because they were separating like kind

50:57 of thing and in in that he is saying that she she just

51:00 preferred to stay there because of what was going on with the

51:04 trial with Paul. She didn't feel comfortable in

51:07 Hampton. See which by that I I on a level

51:10 I get I mean as a parent of of a child who is being looked at as

51:14 as a as a murderer of another very beautiful.

51:17 You know lovely girl in their in their town that they live in.

51:20 I mean, going to the supermarket wouldn't have been.

51:21 Comfortable. Yeah.

51:22 I, I, I understand it from that perspective, but Paul was still

51:25 living at Moselle and you would think your son probably needs

51:28 that support at the moment, especially from his.

51:31 Yes. Family unit.

51:32 Yeah. So to me, I'm like, what was she

51:35 escaping? Yeah, what was, I mean, this is

51:37 the thing. What?

51:37 Why was she? I don't know.

51:39 I think I think that is relevant why she was there.

51:41 Was it that she wanted to be away from her husband and away

51:44 from all that stuff? Or was it she wanted to be away

51:46 from the stuff around? Paul Yeah.

51:48 I could come at both and and. To me, it's more plausible that

51:52 she wanted to be away from Alec. Yeah, I knowing him, I'd want to

51:57 be fucking away from him, but but apparently, yeah, she was.

52:01 OK, very. We'll never know.

52:03 We will never know. She loved him.

52:04 I wouldn't say in love. That's what people were sort of

52:06 saying they were like, yeah, they were cracks, but they were

52:08 very devoted to each other regardless of the cracks.

52:11 Because there was rumours of him having affairs and things too,

52:14 and that she was sticking around regardless.

52:17 Because in that family you don't divorce.

52:19 No, but I mean, well, yeah, maybe that's a motive.

52:23 But that that's what I think. That's honestly what I think,

52:25 because the that being the shame of that the family would not

52:29 have gone down well anyway. Let's.

52:31 Let's, well, I think more to the point of like that other things

52:33 would come out in looking at finances and splitting things

52:36 up. That's where I'm all go.

52:39 Yes, yes, I think, I think that's very, very true.

52:42 Yeah, I think that's. The I don't think it's the the

52:46 divorce being shameful. I think it's what?

52:48 We come out of it, but 100%, yeah, 100%.

52:51 OK. Yeah.

52:52 So right, let's talk about how the investigation went.

52:59 Well, to start with, I mean, any murder takes place of these two

53:02 people. Like, you know, there's Paul and

53:03 Maggie who are the the people who've been killed.

53:05 First and foremost, the police absolutely have to go right?

53:09 Who could be want them dead Now Paul is someone who is currently

53:14 on about to go to trial. Of course there are people who

53:16 don't like him. There is social media glor who

53:20 don't like him. Many people in Hampton are, you

53:24 know, very very ovary shit and but.

53:26 This is the thing, like he has even in.

53:29 So I believe it was 2 years from when Mallory died to this.

53:31 Yeah. And he so #1 he has had two

53:36 years of freedom that he shouldn't have had.

53:38 Yeah, because of who he is and who his family are.

53:41 Yes, and how slow the wheels of justice turned for him, which is

53:45 so unfair. Oh, I'm funny that.

53:48 But then also there was no remorse at all.

53:52 So what I'm saying is, so he's the people who were on the boat

53:57 that night. The other teens who were on the

53:59 boat that night say that Paul was still posting.

54:03 He'd just found another group of mates who were happy to indulge

54:05 his every whim and still drink with him and go shooting with

54:10 him and do all of those things and there was no remorse from

54:13 Paul. It's not like he was like going

54:15 to them going I'm so sorry. I'm never going to drink again.

54:18 I'm never going to. I will never operate of the

54:20 exchange. I'm trying to devote it to the

54:23 things that Mallory loved because I, you know, I've, I'm

54:25 going to become. A vet because of her, you know,

54:27 no, I'm going to do good out of this.

54:29 No, no, he just continued down the same path.

54:31 So, Pete, that frustrated people no end.

54:34 Yeah, well, everyone knew that they, these boys had been raised

54:38 to know that they were above the law.

54:41 Yep. That's how that went.

54:42 Yeah. So the the town knew he's he's

54:45 not going to go down for this. That that was the.

54:47 As Anthony said, good luck. Yep.

54:49 You know, good luck getting him for this.

54:51 Yeah. So, yeah, there was a lot of

54:53 frustration in that field. So you're right.

54:55 The police are looking into that.

54:56 Absolutely had to go back to all those, the the four other

54:59 surviving people of that boat ride, they went to them first,

55:03 right? Cleared all of them very

55:05 quickly, cleared their parents, you know, but then, yes, there

55:09 was a lot of social media like, and random people who were very

55:12 vocal online around how much they despised Paul for what he

55:15 did and, you know, all these sorts of things.

55:17 And no, it's saying like, you know, that he's not going to get

55:20 justice and say, would someone go, I'm going to take justice in

55:23 my own hands. Yeah.

55:24 So they had to look into all that.

55:26 Absolutely. They had to look into all that.

55:28 But. But they couldn't find anything.

55:29 They. Couldn't.

55:31 Again, we speak about this all the time.

55:33 In these crimes, you start from the inside and you work your way

55:37 out. So at what point did they vet

55:39 Alec? Well, I don't know that they did

55:42 until he did the next. Thing that's right.

55:46 So again, I feel like because of who he was and because of the

55:49 influence that he had and the position that he held, the power

55:52 that he had, he didn't get looked into like it would be if

55:57 somebody completely anonymous and completely not involved in

56:01 this fear. Yeah, would have been so.

56:04 So what happened next? So the next bit is that.

56:08 Yeah, so he this particular day, he was, he drove his car down

56:13 the road a bit from his house, pulled over the side and he had

56:17 a flat tire. Well, supposed supposedly it

56:21 was, but I think. Oh yeah, it was flat.

56:23 And then slashed. I believe a screwdriver had been

56:27 used, so not slashed not. Slashed with a knife, but you're

56:29 punched. Yeah.

56:30 So flat tire. So he's his story.

56:33 Let's go with his story to begin with.

56:35 He was then changing this tire on the side of the road.

56:39 And According to him, a car pulled up and.

56:44 Samaritan trying to help. Trying to help and shot him

56:48 right. In the head.

56:49 In the head he's he rang the, you know, rang 911 and you know,

56:53 the phone call that I find very interesting, very good.

56:56 There's no worry or panic in his voice.

56:59 Cattle. No, like as in some who's just

57:01 been shot in the head. He is clear.

57:03 Well, supposedly shot in the head.

57:04 Sorry. I should should say yes,

57:05 Supposedly. Supposedly.

57:06 Shot head you'd even try and act a little bit like I'm in pain or

57:10 you know, like I don't know. It was He was clear he was very

57:13 thorough. He did his.

57:14 Very thorough. You know silver tongue crap on

57:17 that phone call. My God he was on for a chat.

57:20 I think it's the weirdest 911 call.

57:22 It's so. Bizarre.

57:23 So yeah, he calls 911 and cops rock up, you know, and he gets

57:28 taken off to the hospital. I believe he's got airlifted

57:30 actually. No, sorry, he did.

57:31 He got airlifted to Savannah. Hospital, yes.

57:35 So you can see there's actually body Cam footage.

57:37 So they sent an ambulance, right?

57:40 And so he's in the back of an ambulance when the police arrive

57:43 and they're body worn camera footage.

57:45 You can see him in the back of that ambulance before he gets

57:47 airlifted. Yeah.

57:49 And he's like, I was shot in the head.

57:52 And like, it's just like, it's so bizarre.

57:54 It's so freaking weird. And the police officers like,

57:56 OK, like, what do I do with this?

58:00 You know, It was so weird. Yes.

58:02 Anyway, sorry. Sorry, no, not at all.

58:04 So the cops look into this though, and so his description

58:09 of the person that did this to him is that it was someone much

58:14 younger than him, short hair, all these sorts of things,

58:18 basically describing someone who might fit the persona of someone

58:22 around Paul's age. I guess someone who might be had

58:25 it out for Paul because the immediate thing that the media

58:28 pick up on this is like, Oh my God, now Alex been shot and

58:32 attempted murder on him. This is clearly now someone who

58:36 is a vigilante out there to, you know, destroy the entire family

58:41 because of Paul. Like, you know, and the stuff

58:42 that he was involved in, that was what the story that kind of

58:46 went out on that. Yep.

58:47 And and from the outside looking into it and the reporting that

58:51 had been done to that point, yeah, OK, Yeah, I see it 100%

58:55 fair take on it. Yep, yeah.

58:57 Yeah. Anyway, the cops end up speaking

59:01 to a guy by the name of Curtis E or Eddie.

59:06 Eddie. Curtis, Eddie Smith.

59:08 Eddie Smith, Now Curtis is technically Alex Cousin, a

59:15 distant a distant cousin, but they've been around in each

59:18 other's lives for a very long time.

59:20 Yep, now it is an interesting character.

59:23 Oh my God. To say the least.

59:26 To say the least. Now Eddie tells a very different

59:29 story of what happened that day. But now the reason they knew to

59:33 talk to Eddie is because they so in investigating this, the

59:39 police are looking for CCTV footage and they go to AI think

59:42 it was a Funeral Home car park had CCTV footage.

59:46 And what they can see is they can see Alex car going down the

59:50 road. Yeah.

59:51 And then a few, like literally maybe a minute or so later,

59:55 another truck going down the road and then they can see,

1:00:00 actually see them going. Following one another or one

1:00:03 following the other? Yeah, down to where, you know

1:00:05 this eventual incident, yeah, took place.

1:00:08 The cops are like, well, we gotta look at that car, that

1:00:09 car. That is the driver.

1:00:11 That's right. Who shot Alec?

1:00:12 On the They were doing the right thing.

1:00:13 They were trying to figure out who'd been down that road that

1:00:16 day. Yeah, so it turns out that it's

1:00:17 it's Eddie and they talked to him and Eddie says that he gets

1:00:21 a got a phone call from Alec to say meet me on this road.

1:00:26 And he's like, just do that. It's weird, but I go and do that

1:00:29 because he does whatever Alec tells him to.

1:00:33 So he rocks up, turns up, and Alec hands him a gun and tells

1:00:38 him to shoot him. Now, his reason for this, he

1:00:41 says, is because his wife and son are dead.

1:00:45 He doesn't want to leave anymore.

1:00:47 He's, you know, so, so distraught, so distraught, so

1:00:51 distraught. He wants, doesn't want to leave

1:00:52 anymore. But if he kills himself, Buster

1:00:56 won't get the insurance payouts from.

1:00:59 So he had a $10 million life insurance policy.

1:01:03 Yeah, so to ensure Buster, as his sole surviving son, gets all

1:01:08 dues to him, he wanted Eddie to shoot him and kill him.

1:01:13 And Eddie's like, fuck that. I'm not doing.

1:01:15 That no man, no. So he literally like like fully

1:01:19 according to Eddie, Alec turns around, you know, gets down on

1:01:22 the on the ground and like, you know, shoot me in the back of

1:01:24 the head, like, you know, and so Eddie shoots into the air and

1:01:28 it's like, fuck you, no, I'm not going to do that.

1:01:30 And left. At which point we believe Alec

1:01:36 has then fallen over accidentally potentially.

1:01:41 And that's where he. Hurt his head like grazed.

1:01:44 Grazed. He's on the side, it looks like.

1:01:48 It looks like what happens when you fall over when you're a kid

1:01:50 on asphalt and you get all the ash felt in your knee.

1:01:52 Like, you know, that grey sore? Like really sore, but not a

1:01:58 fucking gunshot. Not a gunshot.

1:02:03 Oh God. So they they approach Alec with

1:02:06 this information of what Eddie says and he's he basically

1:02:11 double s down as if like to say, you know, you know, I said that

1:02:15 to Eddie in terms of like, you know, the I wanted to kill me,

1:02:17 like I wanted to commit suicide, but you know, I need to save

1:02:19 Buster, but he still says that Eddie shot him.

1:02:23 Yep. It's not a gunshot wound mate.

1:02:27 So even the medical staff who treated him were like, this

1:02:31 isn't a bullet graze. We've seen bullet grazes before.

1:02:35 This is not a bullet graze. No, this is a graze.

1:02:37 Graze. We had to pick asphalt out of

1:02:40 your wound. You know, we weren't picking gun

1:02:45 fragments. We're picking or bullet

1:02:47 fragments. We're picking asphalt.

1:02:48 Asphalt. OK, Yeah.

1:02:50 So I guess this kind of thing goes, what the fuck is going on

1:02:54 here for the cops? And they're going to look at him

1:02:56 a little bit closer, maybe, maybe.

1:02:57 Maybe. Well, the the thing that I think

1:03:00 the cops figure out is that or, and I guess at this point to,

1:03:06 yeah, look, no, law enforcement are really sort of looking at

1:03:09 this Eddie character going, hmm, this is very, very odd.

1:03:12 Yeah. What they find in investigating

1:03:15 him is that. Eddie.

1:03:18 Was it? Was cashing cheques.

1:03:22 Cashing cheques for Alec for. Alec, he cashed 437 cheques in

1:03:27 total. Total that total of 2,000,000

1:03:30 dollars, 2.4 million. Dollars, U.S. dollars, yeah.

1:03:34 Now they all of the cheques, most of the cheques were under

1:03:37 $10,000, under 10, like literally some, some of them

1:03:39 were like $9987. And 47 cents, yeah.

1:03:45 Yeah, just to look really just legit and yeah, so over like

1:03:50 literally 8 years, I think it was this $2.4 million of cash

1:03:55 cheques. Yeah.

1:03:56 And not only that, but so I guess Eddie was on paper was

1:04:02 Alex's handyman. He'd go over and do odd jobs at

1:04:05 the house and and all that kind of thing.

1:04:08 But really, he was Alex's primary oxycodone supplier.

1:04:14 And yeah, his personal check casher I have.

1:04:16 A little question mark over the drug stuff go.

1:04:19 So I, I query a little bit on this whether or not the drug

1:04:24 situation and IA 100% believe drugs are involved in this.

1:04:27 I'm not questioning that, but his drug taking.

1:04:30 I'm just questioning whether that was a little exaggerated

1:04:35 for purposes of sympathy within the courts.

1:04:39 And it meant that he could go to rehab and evade a few questions

1:04:43 and things from police because he's in rehab and just, and use

1:04:48 that as a as a blame for the financials and and other things

1:04:53 that had gone on for him. Like he can blame the drug use

1:04:56 and go, Oh my gosh, I'm an addict.

1:04:57 Like, you know, I need to get if I'm not an addict, I'm not the

1:05:00 bad person. Yeah, I I think that's very,

1:05:03 very fair. But then I.

1:05:04 I do think he used I'm. Not saying Oh no no.

1:05:06 Don't but I mean no he did. I just query the level of what

1:05:11 he he has definitely. I think, I don't know.

1:05:15 But The thing is though, I think they were the amount of money.

1:05:20 So this $2.4 million, they cannot trace it anywhere.

1:05:24 This is because cheques were cashed, right?

1:05:26 But what else did he spend that money on if it wasn't?

1:05:31 Drugs. I do think he spent it on drugs.

1:05:32 I 100% think he spent on drugs. $2.4 million.

1:05:36 The thing that gets me though, is that there's reports out

1:05:39 there that he was so addicted to oxycodone, OK to the tune of up

1:05:44 to 80 pills a week. I heard him talk about taking

1:05:49 over 200 in a week. 200 No, actually, I have read that.

1:05:53 No, you're right, I have read that.

1:05:54 Because yeah, like if you have a bit of oxy after you've had an

1:05:58 operation, 1 tablet fucking makes you woo.

1:06:02 And again, over time it you build up a resilience.

1:06:04 Definitely, but 200 a week? That's where I think that's was,

1:06:09 I think he was buying. I do think he was buying those

1:06:11 drugs, but I also think that there was, he was well, there's

1:06:15 talk of cartels being involved. He had well.

1:06:17 Yeah, he had. Well, not airports.

1:06:19 What airports? He had strips of land where he

1:06:22 landed, airplanes, planes coming in.

1:06:24 Yeah, so there's talk of connections to various other

1:06:28 aspects of drugs. Now, mind you, the whole family

1:06:31 knew about that. Paul, Buster, Maggie, they all

1:06:33 knew that he had these air fields and airstrips.

1:06:36 They would go there and pick. Well, Eddie as well, he says he

1:06:39 would go to these airstrips and pick the packages.

1:06:41 He never asked what they were. They rattled, but he never asked

1:06:44 what they were when he was either dropping it off or

1:06:46 picking it up. Oh God, I love it.

1:06:47 He's like and he's like, I knew it wasn't a rattlesnake.

1:06:55 I don't ask. I don't know.

1:06:56 Yeah, that's. It, that's it.

1:06:58 Don't ask, don't tell. I mean, he was on a good wicket.

1:07:00 I think he was getting a fair, he would get a fair percentage

1:07:04 of. I think he got something like,

1:07:06 well, he, he says he got a handling fee.

1:07:08 Yeah, for every time he helped. Now, if you got a handling fee

1:07:11 on $2.4 million, I'm sure you weren't getting fuck all.

1:07:15 You were probably doing OK out of the situation.

1:07:17 Yeah. Oh, definitely.

1:07:19 Yeah. I mean, he was.

1:07:20 Eddie was has been charged with money laundering.

1:07:22 And he's, yeah, you know. He's doing his time, yeah.

1:07:25 As he should. Be but I just do believe.

1:07:28 I really feel like the drug situation was exaggerated in

1:07:32 this to benefit him in this in this situation because I think

1:07:36 that the drugs actually it also then covered up where the drugs

1:07:40 were really kind of going. Yeah, yeah.

1:07:43 I think, I think that's, yeah, very, very fair and.

1:07:46 There's a lot more to this family that is not uncovered

1:07:51 because I believe that that drug cartel stuff goes right back to

1:07:54 like this Buster, Buster Senior. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:07:58 I mean, they had so much money and it wasn't, but we call it

1:08:03 old money these days. And and in relation to Alec and

1:08:06 his family, it was old money. Right.

1:08:08 But that where did that money actually come from?

1:08:11 Because really, Buster Senior was the first generation of

1:08:14 that, and that was only two generations before Alec.

1:08:17 Yeah. Like, how do you amass such an

1:08:19 absolute fortune in two generations?

1:08:24 You have to be doing something pretty significant, don't you?

1:08:27 Yeah. To get to gain that kind of

1:08:30 what? The words that were used by

1:08:32 someone that I was reading the other day was that Buster

1:08:35 Murdoch, particularly Buster Murdoch Senior?

1:08:37 Yep. Was that if, if he looked, if he

1:08:40 knew if he liked you, he looked after you.

1:08:43 If he didn't like you, he took care of you, if you know what I

1:08:47 mean. Oh, we know what you mean.

1:08:48 Sleeping with the fishes kind of took care of you.

1:08:50 He'll be sleeping with the fishes, yeah.

1:08:55 So he wasn't known. Not nice person.

1:09:00 Yeah. People feared him, oh fucking

1:09:03 oath. And that then bled down to and

1:09:05 then So what do you get to from that being like, you know, 2

1:09:08 generations ago? What do the next generations

1:09:11 look like after that kind of level of Yep?

1:09:13 Fear. Yep. 100 when they're still in

1:09:16 those same powerful positions. Yep, 100%.

1:09:19 Yeah. I just wanted to give you a

1:09:20 quote that that Eddie said during his defense.

1:09:25 Yeah, he said. If I'd have shot him, he'd be

1:09:30 dead. I love that I.

1:09:36 Mean. Yeah, fair.

1:09:38 I see that. Well, because, yeah, he reckoned

1:09:40 that because that was something that came out at one point that

1:09:41 Alex said he did shoot him, but he he missed.

1:09:44 Yeah. And he's like, I don't.

1:09:46 Miss. I don't miss.

1:09:47 Yeah, fuck you, Alec, Fuck you don't.

1:09:50 Call me a bad shot. That's the most offensive thing

1:09:52 you could probably say to someone from the South.

1:09:54 I know. I know, right?

1:09:56 Especially to someone like Eddie.

1:09:57 Yeah. Yeah.

1:09:58 OK, So what we're what's unraveling now is that we're

1:10:02 obviously the police like, hmm. Alec didn't tell us the truth

1:10:06 about this. That's weird.

1:10:07 I wonder what else he might not have told us the truth about.

1:10:09 I think at the same time as this going on, the financial stuff is

1:10:13 also. Well, that was unraveling,

1:10:14 absolutely. So what?

1:10:16 What was going on is the fact that Alec basically had no

1:10:20 money. He'd essentially bankrupted

1:10:23 himself in the family because of his drug use.

1:10:26 So he'd he'd certainly spent that money on drugs or whatever

1:10:29 it was that he was cashing these checks for.

1:10:32 So when we're sort of like, you know, looking into that, the

1:10:36 embarrassment of that for this family and.

1:10:40 Well, his own law firm brought him in and said like, what the

1:10:45 fucks? Where's the money?

1:10:46 Because they started doing their own audits and checks on things

1:10:49 and what they found was that there was so many fees that

1:10:53 should have been charged to clients and things that they

1:10:56 weren't being able to find within their financials.

1:11:01 Where'd that money end up? You know all these.

1:11:04 They had some really detailed forensic accounting done.

1:11:08 And what they found was that not only had Alec stolen from the

1:11:12 legal firm, yes. So he'd actually taken money out

1:11:15 of their coffers to, I don't know, to spend however he wanted

1:11:18 to spend it. Yeah.

1:11:19 What they also found was that there had been some really shady

1:11:23 shit that had happened. So.

1:11:25 He what, sorry, forged signatures on things all the

1:11:29 time. He redirected checks.

1:11:30 He misrepresented case settlements.

1:11:32 So like, you know, he said that it was $1 million settlement.

1:11:35 So the the law firm were expecting $1,000,000 when in

1:11:37 actual fact the case was settled for $3,000,000.

1:11:40 So where did the extra go? You know, that sort of stuff.

1:11:43 He was doing all these sorts of things too.

1:11:45 In particular, what came out, which is just disgusting, is

1:11:49 with Gloria Satterfield's sons. Yeah, so these were the guys we

1:11:54 were talking about last week where Alec had provided them

1:11:57 this Corey Fleming as a, you know, hotshot lawyer to sue the

1:12:00 homeowners insurance. They said that they would get 4

1:12:03 point, sorry, that they would get $500,000.

1:12:06 They actually got 4.34 point, $3,000,000.

1:12:10 And So what what that meant not that those boys ever saw that

1:12:14 500,000 either, but what that meant was that, you know, what

1:12:18 was that $3.8 million has gone straight into the pockets of

1:12:22 Corey and and Alec. Yeah.

1:12:24 And so they'd not only done that to Gloria Satterfield's sons,

1:12:29 they had done that to so many other.

1:12:31 They did it to many injured people in accidents.

1:12:35 Yep, they did it to a family of of deceased victim, a

1:12:38 quadriplegic, yeah man, a deaf client and and obviously the

1:12:43 sons of Gloria Satterfield as well as the law firm.

1:12:45 So money was coming in from multiple different places in

1:12:47 that sense. Yeah, the the paraplegic case,

1:12:51 I, I read into that a little bit more.

1:12:53 Yeah. And that was disgusting because

1:12:56 what ended up happening was the settlement that that person got

1:13:00 was not even enough to cover their care.

1:13:01 No. Whereas it should have been like

1:13:03 the settlement that they legitimately got was enough.

1:13:06 Yeah. But what they thought they got

1:13:07 was nowhere near enough to cover what they needed to live a

1:13:10 basic, basic, basic life. It's.

1:13:13 Just it's disgusting what he did to was to so he to get this over

1:13:17 people so they didn't question it.

1:13:19 He set up a bank account and named it Forge.

1:13:23 Now that doesn't mean anything to you.

1:13:25 I'm not you and I. However, in this county and in

1:13:27 this area, there was a well known legitimate financial

1:13:30 settlement planning company called Forge.

1:13:34 So these what he would convince these families of what he was

1:13:37 doing was that the check would come made out to Forge, which

1:13:42 meant that the money was going into an account that was for

1:13:45 their financial future. And it was a planning, like a

1:13:48 settlement planning account. And so they would say, yeah,

1:13:52 sure, put it in that that bank account and it would be his bank

1:13:57 account just named Forge. And he never, obviously they

1:14:01 would never be able to access. They can't access that money

1:14:03 then no. So how did that not come out

1:14:05 earlier? Nobody wanted the money or

1:14:07 needed the money. They believed it was being put

1:14:09 where it was supposed. To be sure.

1:14:10 OK, yeah, Fucking hell. He would convince them that this

1:14:14 was what was and because it was a legitimate company, they they

1:14:17 honestly thought that this was being done out.

1:14:18 It was supposed to be done and it wasn't.

1:14:21 Fucking hell yeah. Unbelievable.

1:14:24 OK, so now Alec is looking more and more suspicious day on day

1:14:30 and. So what does he do?

1:14:31 He goes and checks himself into rehab.

1:14:33 Yeah, because he's weak as fucking piss and he knows that

1:14:36 this will look sympathetic to a judge.

1:14:38 That's what I mean by this exaggeration of it.

1:14:39 I don't believe it was fully as bad as he made out, but so he

1:14:43 goes off to rehab. But he thinks by doing that is,

1:14:45 you know, avoiding all of it. The day leaves rehab, what do

1:14:49 they do? They arrest him.

1:14:50 Yeah. Thank fuck.

1:14:51 Yeah. But it's not the end of it.

1:14:54 Of course it's not, no, basically the other thing that

1:14:58 they do. So when they arrest him, they're

1:15:02 obviously interviewing now, interviewing him now at the

1:15:04 police station. And this is really the first

1:15:07 recorded interview within the police station, because I think

1:15:11 there were two recorded interviews in a car with him.

1:15:13 And then the third, the actual first one in a in the actual

1:15:18 police station, yes, was after he'd been released from rehab.

1:15:21 Yeah, that's right. And so he's in this, even the

1:15:24 way he sits in that gives me the fucking shit.

1:15:27 It's like he's so fucking too cool for school.

1:15:29 Oh, mansplaining always. Yeah, totally.

1:15:32 And so his attitude is just like, we're discussing the

1:15:35 murder of your wife and your son.

1:15:36 Yeah. And you're just.

1:15:38 Oh my God, he's fucking horrific.

1:15:40 The way like they get to a point where the police officers are is

1:15:43 asking questions and and ends up directly saying to him, did you

1:15:48 shoot your son Paul? And did you shoot your your

1:15:51 wife, Maggie? And which he responds, you know,

1:15:53 both times. No, I did not.

1:15:54 No, I did not. And then he turns and he, he

1:15:57 asked the officer, do you believe I did that?

1:15:59 Yeah. And I love the officers response

1:16:02 to it in that I have to go where the the evidence point is

1:16:05 pointing me to, and this is where it's taking me.

1:16:08 But the way he just so arrogantly says like, you know,

1:16:11 what? Are you looking at me for this?

1:16:13 Yeah, yeah. Dude, yeah.

1:16:15 So the police having evidence, Paul's phone and Maggie's phone,

1:16:20 right, Phones. Now, these, this family were

1:16:23 prolific phone users. They were on their phones all

1:16:28 the time, particularly Paul, particularly Paul, particularly

1:16:31 Paul sending Snapchats and all, I don't even know Snapchat, but

1:16:34 you know, messages and all that sort of stuff.

1:16:36 Back then in constant contact with people, a lot of face

1:16:41 timing and that kind of thing as well.

1:16:43 Like that was something that he did often.

1:16:45 Yeah. So they, the police give give

1:16:50 Alec Paul's phone and said, do you know the passcode to this?

1:16:53 And he's like, no, I don't know. The police then spend him.

1:16:55 When he says it, by the way, No, I don't, I don't.

1:16:57 The way he smirks. Yeah, exactly.

1:16:59 He that was in the car, that was one of the interviews in the car

1:17:02 where they asked him this. So this was before he'd been to

1:17:04 rehab. The police are like fuck, we

1:17:07 really need to get into this phone because we need because

1:17:08 they could get into Maggie's Paul new Alec sorry knew

1:17:11 Maggie's passcode so that was fine.

1:17:14 Both Alec, sorry, both Maggie and Paul's phones both stopped

1:17:20 working, both stopped having any correspondence or traffic at

1:17:23 around 8:49 and they looked and then.

1:17:27 They were locked. So what they've gathered from

1:17:29 Maggie's phone is that. Yeah, that that this murder has

1:17:33 occurred at approximately 849. Yeah, they can sort of like

1:17:36 roughly say that that's there's no more movement on Maggie's

1:17:39 phone at that point. So this is the way it's getting

1:17:41 a good timeline from her phone. But they need corroboration

1:17:44 through Paul's phone. Yeah.

1:17:46 So they send the phone off to the Secret Service, Secret

1:17:50 Service who because the the police, the local police have

1:17:53 tried and they've used their forensic people.

1:17:55 Nothing they've. Tried all the.

1:17:55 Well, according to them, they tried all of the obvious number

1:17:58 combination. But then they send the phone off

1:18:00 to the Secret Service, and the Secret Service put his date of

1:18:02 birth in and that opens up the phone.

1:18:05 Wouldn't you be embarrassed? Oh well.

1:18:07 Especially when like I think it was Buster even that's on

1:18:09 interview saying like, Oh no, Paul's really private.

1:18:12 So I would, I don't know his. Past.

1:18:14 No, no, that was actually Alex said was Alex.

1:18:16 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's really

1:18:17 private. He's.

1:18:17 Very private with his phone. We, we don't.

1:18:19 Know fixing your fucking birthday.

1:18:21 So, so fucking private. Yeah.

1:18:24 So anyway, the that meant then that the police were able to go

1:18:26 through and forensically look at absolutely everything on Paul's

1:18:29 phone. And they see that it exactly,

1:18:31 pretty much the exact same time his phone also goes dark, which

1:18:35 is at 849 roughly. Yeah.

1:18:37 And then, but they go back and they're looking at photos and

1:18:40 videos. And what they find is there's a

1:18:42 video that Paul took at 844 and 49 seconds.

1:18:47 We call this the kennel video. This is the linchpin of this

1:18:52 case. It's the smoking gun in my

1:18:56 opinion. Without this, I don't even know

1:18:59 where things would be. Should we just go back one

1:19:01 second before you go to that? No, no, no.

1:19:03 I'm just as you're saying that going Maggie's phone was not

1:19:07 found on her. True.

1:19:08 They couldn't find it for a while.

1:19:10 They found it down the road, which is a weird thing.

1:19:13 An odd thing. Anyway.

1:19:14 Yep. Yep.

1:19:15 So. But her phone does stop working

1:19:17 and stop moving. And at the same time as Pauls.

1:19:20 Yeah. The same time as Pauls.

1:19:21 Yeah. Yeah, roughly.

1:19:23 But they are further away from each other than their bodies.

1:19:27 Yep. That's very fair, very

1:19:29 fairpoint. Yeah, So what happened was so

1:19:34 one of Paul's mates had his dog at the was kenneling his dog at

1:19:38 their kennels, I think. He'd gone away or gone.

1:19:41 I feel like he'd. Oh my God, I saw him

1:19:43 interviewed. Oh, same.

1:19:44 I feel like he was either going, he got into maybe going to

1:19:46 college, maybe gone to college I think or something.

1:19:49 OK. There was a reason that he

1:19:50 wasn't in Moselle. His college was further away in

1:19:53 that, so I think so. He'd asked Paul to look after

1:19:54 his dog. Yeah, so this dog was down at

1:19:56 the kennel, and when Paul had gone down there that night with

1:19:59 Maggie, he'd noticed that there was something wrong, This puppy,

1:20:02 this. Dogs name was Cash, and he'd

1:20:04 noticed there was something wrong with Cashier's tail.

1:20:06 Yeah. And so he tried to FaceTime this

1:20:10 friend, but there wasn't much reception down there.

1:20:14 Yeah. I mean, when you look at it,

1:20:16 you're like, Oh yeah, there's tall trees all around you.

1:20:18 Like, I get why you're at the middle of nowhere.

1:20:21 So Paul then decides to take a video that he can then send to

1:20:26 send once he gets back up to the house to his mate to be like,

1:20:28 what do you want me to do about your dog's tail?

1:20:30 Yeah. So it's a shocking fucking

1:20:32 video. Like, can you even see the tail?

1:20:35 Like, it's wagging. And he's like, the phone's going

1:20:38 everywhere. But the really interesting thing

1:20:41 is you can hear Miss Maggie in the background.

1:20:43 Yeah. And she's like, Oh my God, One

1:20:45 of the dogs has a, has a Guinea. And then you hear this other

1:20:51 male, very distinctive male voice say.

1:20:55 It's a chicken. Yep.

1:20:57 Or it's a bird. It's a chicken, is it?

1:21:00 Yeah. OK.

1:21:02 Very distinctive voice. Who do we know who has a very

1:21:04 distinctive voice made? Could be one Alec Murdoch, by

1:21:08 any chance? Yeah.

1:21:08 Maybe. Maybe he also said something

1:21:11 else. There is something else he says

1:21:13 after that. And then 'cause she, she's like,

1:21:15 Oh my God, like, you know, it's kind of a little bit like, you

1:21:16 know, panicky from Maggie, like, not panic like, but.

1:21:18 But you're like, oh, the dog's got something.

1:21:20 Yuck. Oh, get it out of its mouth,

1:21:22 basically. And he does say something else

1:21:23 after that. And again, it's so distinctive.

1:21:25 You know whose voice that is without question.

1:21:27 Yeah. And like And Paul's not reacting

1:21:29 to his voice as if he didn't expect to hear his voice.

1:21:31 No, no, no. There is no reaction.

1:21:33 He continues on recording. Like this dog's tail.

1:21:35 And, you know, you can kind of hear him talking over the video

1:21:37 a little bit, too. Yep.

1:21:39 But yeah. And then that cuts out.

1:21:41 That cuts out. Wait, wait, Alec never said he

1:21:44 was at the kennels? What?

1:21:47 What do you know? He got to the kennels after

1:21:50 10:00 at 10 O. 6 And if Alec was at the kennels when that video

1:21:54 was being recorded at 8:49, at 8:44, sorry 44 and then Maggie

1:22:00 and Paul are shot at 8:49, that doesn't give much time for him

1:22:04 to have exited the scene and someone else come in and shoot

1:22:08 them loudly with shotguns. He just forgot that he was there

1:22:13 at the time, basically of their murders.

1:22:17 What? Say what?

1:22:20 And then he's like also gotten in his suburban, driven to his

1:22:26 mum's. So at 9:06.

1:22:28 So he did. So yeah.

1:22:29 He he actually. Did actually did.

1:22:31 He arrived at his mother's place at 9:06.

1:22:34 I'm sorry. He drove there at probably at

1:22:35 sorry at nine O 6 and arrived there at 8 at 9/22.

1:22:38 He left there by 9:44. He returned to the kennels, so

1:22:44 at 10:00 PM to then make the phone call to 911911 at ten O 6.

1:22:53 What? So Alec in the trial, because he

1:22:59 is completely charged with this murder and at the at the trial,

1:23:05 he changes his story in the middle of the trial because this

1:23:08 is this it took so long to his lawyer.

1:23:11 Yeah, well, someone said in one of the documentaries of like,

1:23:15 sorry, Alec became his own lawyer at that. .100% yeah.

1:23:19 And you can actually see the look on his lawyer's face

1:23:21 because this whole thing was televised, Yeah.

1:23:23 So there's a lot of really good court, court.

1:23:27 The look on his lawyer's face, I'd be like, yeah, well, of

1:23:30 course this was going to happen, mate.

1:23:31 Like, look at who your client is.

1:23:32 But sorry, go explain. Simply, I mean, as we've said

1:23:35 all the time, don't get on the stand, don't get on the stand.

1:23:38 Don't get on the stand. Your lawyer will tell you don't

1:23:40 get on the. Stand the lawyer told him not to

1:23:42 get on. The stand, he very much said

1:23:43 that, but he couldn't help himself and he got on the stand.

1:23:49 Because he thought that he could spin it.

1:23:52 Literally. And because and he does say I

1:23:55 understand, he goes, you know, they lied about being there.

1:23:57 Yep. And he said.

1:23:59 I lied to the investigators. I was at the kennels.

1:24:02 Yeah, and he tries to sort of then make out as if he left and

1:24:06 he didn't see this until he came back, but he then tried, oh,

1:24:11 what's he says about the the nurse?

1:24:14 Because he. Shelley.

1:24:15 Yeah, so he he went to the nurse and told her, tell the police I

1:24:19 was here for like 45 minutes and she's like, he's only here for

1:24:23 like. 20, yeah. You know, and she confessed that

1:24:25 to the police. She's like, I can't do this.

1:24:27 He's trying to tell me to say he was there longer.

1:24:30 And she sat on the stand and said that.

1:24:31 Yep, and she was terrified to do it.

1:24:33 Oh yeah. Terrified.

1:24:35 I feel so awful. For I know she yeah, she's a

1:24:38 woman of great integrity. Absolutely.

1:24:40 And so he got on the stand then and basically tried to make out

1:24:42 that she's lying and said I don't know why she's doing that.

1:24:45 Like because I was there for 45 minutes and I know I was and

1:24:48 really doubled down on that sort of situation, which I think I

1:24:51 just did him no favours. No, but he makes this statement

1:24:54 in that time of this weird and the judge calls him out on it in

1:24:57 the end and says he goes, you know, all the the was it the web

1:25:02 of the, the, the web of lies? We, we, we, we wave.

1:25:05 What what is is that trying to get yourself off of this because

1:25:11 that's making you sound like you're guilty.

1:25:12 You're guilty as fuck. And yeah, you tried to lie your

1:25:16 way out of this and it's not worked.

1:25:17 The other thing that the prosecution have is a fair whack

1:25:20 of of circumstantial evidence. Yeah.

1:25:21 So part of that is we mentioned that blue jacket.

1:25:25 Yeah, now the blue jacket had Maggie's blood on it.

1:25:30 Yeah, splatters of Maggie's blood.

1:25:33 They found that at Alec's mom's place.

1:25:36 Yeah. They also the testimony from

1:25:40 Blanca, the housekeeper, was that that morning Alec was

1:25:44 wearing a certain outfit and then that night he was wearing a

1:25:48 different outfit. Well, he was wearing then on the

1:25:50 video these khaki pants and a blue shirt.

1:25:53 Yeah. Yet when the police arrive, he's

1:25:55 wearing a white T-shirt and shorts.

1:25:57 Yeah. So there's been a change of

1:26:00 clothes regardless of whether he's, I mean, at what point in

1:26:02 this, this. Timeline he time exactly.

1:26:05 Like he would have time if he'd shot them at 8:49.

1:26:08 No, absolutely. And didn't call the cops until

1:26:10 10/06. Absolutely.

1:26:11 It's got plenty of time to change his clothing.

1:26:13 But in his timeline of saying, well, I've left pretty much at

1:26:16 8:44 after I said those words on that video, Yeah.

1:26:19 And gone to my mum's. Yeah.

1:26:20 And never mentioned changing clothes In this time and his

1:26:23 timeline he's giving there's no time for changing clothes, but

1:26:26 he's absolutely changed his clothes and they have.

1:26:29 Evidence of that? Yeah.

1:26:30 Yeah. There's so much evidence.

1:26:31 Yeah. They also found that his

1:26:33 Suburban had been wiped down, right?

1:26:36 Yeah. But apparently this is, this

1:26:38 happens all of the time. People forget to wipe the seat

1:26:41 belt when they're trying to get rid of evidence from the car.

1:26:45 And so there was actually Maggie's blood on the seat belt

1:26:50 that had been soaked into the seat belt.

1:26:51 So he's obviously had blood on his hands when he's pulled his

1:26:53 seat belt across. And her, like his, sorry, her

1:26:58 blood in his fingers have, you know, left that there.

1:27:01 So that was found as well. Again, circumstantial, but it

1:27:04 all points to the same outcome, the same ending.

1:27:08 Yeah. Yeah.

1:27:10 Oh, definitely. He's at trial now.

1:27:16 What was he charged with in the end?

1:27:17 Let me just get my piece of paper about all of this, because

1:27:20 this is even complex in and of itself, because he was tried for

1:27:23 the financial crimes at the same time.

1:27:25 Yeah, yeah. So that it was a quite a complex

1:27:28 court case. It occurred in, it went from

1:27:31 January to March in 2023, and it took place in Walterboro, SC And

1:27:37 the reason for that is because he was so prominent in Hampton

1:27:40 County and the surrounding counties, they actually had to,

1:27:44 you know, move fairly far away to get what would hopefully be

1:27:49 an impartial jury or somebody he didn't know or had probably more

1:27:53 so that wasn't influenced by who he was and who his family were.

1:27:57 Yeah. So it was an absolute media

1:28:00 circus. As I said, it was televised.

1:28:02 People were lining up at 5:00 AM to get a seat in the courtroom.

1:28:06 There was a lot of a lot of shit went down.

1:28:10 There were bomb threats that were called in and cleared the

1:28:12 court several times. I.

1:28:14 Wonder who did that? I.

1:28:15 Wonder. Who?

1:28:16 Eddie. Eddie.

1:28:17 Anyone. Eddie, I think.

1:28:19 I think Eddie was actually already in general by.

1:28:21 This time. I'm pretty sure his his trial

1:28:25 was his sentencing and everything.

1:28:29 Maybe he had people on the outside helping you, who knows.

1:28:33 So basically they they get to the point they did have a pre

1:28:39 trial hearing and they were sort of testing some evidence and

1:28:42 that kind of thing. But what it meant was that when

1:28:46 it came to the full trial that the financial crimes and the

1:28:49 murder charges were both handled within the same, yeah, within

1:28:54 the same trial time. Which was probably a good thing

1:28:58 because there it was all intertwined.

1:29:00 Everything to do with this case was all really intertwined.

1:29:06 He, Oh my God, this is one thing that actually gets me.

1:29:09 I've just written down snot. If I say to you snot, what do

1:29:12 you think? Oh, no, I'm lost.

1:29:14 Oh my God. In every fucking interview, in

1:29:16 every, even on every time he's on the stand, all he does is

1:29:20 sniff and it drives me. It was actually to the point

1:29:23 where I'm like, I can't fucking watch this bloke anymore.

1:29:25 My dad would hate it. My dad hates a snot.

1:29:27 Anything taking like lots of cocaine?

1:29:29 I think probably, but he's like. Oh God, oh gag.

1:29:34 Like last week. Oh yeah, we're not talking about

1:29:37 oyster roasts. Don't worry.

1:29:39 Juicy oyster roasts. But it's disgusting.

1:29:46 Like his, his manner. He's just so fucking gross.

1:29:51 I find him really repulsive. He's so repulsive.

1:29:53 Yeah, but the sniffing just really gets me.

1:29:57 One of the jurors actually commented because, you know, we

1:29:59 know in the States jurors can then come out after the trials

1:30:03 and and say whatever they want to say.

1:30:05 And one of the jurors actually said that he was trying to cry

1:30:09 at one point, but all he could do is like blow his nose and try

1:30:11 and make his eyes water from blowing his nose.

1:30:13 I'm like, well, at least he blew his nose then.

1:30:15 And. Did.

1:30:15 Oh yeah, sniff. Disgusting.

1:30:20 So on the 2nd of March, the trials gone on until the 2nd of

1:30:25 March and the jury begin deliberating at 3:41 PM that

1:30:28 day. The experts, people in the legal

1:30:32 fraternity, assumed that it would be quite a significant

1:30:36 deliberation. There sort of be days, if not,

1:30:38 you know, up to a week of deliberations.

1:30:41 The initial vote, according to the jurors, was that when they

1:30:44 entered the room there were 9 guilty, 2 not guilty and one

1:30:48 person who was unsure the evidence.

1:30:51 Apparently the two that were that didn't vote guilty straight

1:30:54 away. The thing on it was that they

1:30:57 just could not come at the fact that a father could shoot their

1:31:01 own child. Yep.

1:31:03 It wasn't that the evidence didn't show that.

1:31:05 It was that they couldn't believe that somebody would do

1:31:08 that. Yeah.

1:31:09 So they talked around that they watched the video again and that

1:31:13 kennel video, and that was an L in the coffin.

1:31:15 That was the thing that everyone was like, well, yeah, he's

1:31:17 there. He's there at the time that they

1:31:19 were murdered. And I think a lot of people

1:31:20 still to this day are not convinced that there wasn't

1:31:23 someone else involved. Yeah, I think people say that

1:31:26 because of the fact of the two guns, the two guns, yeah, both

1:31:30 of the guns were did belong to the Murdoch family.

1:31:33 There were ballistic that were done to show that they were they

1:31:35 were done. The guns were never recovered.

1:31:37 The actual guns were never recovered.

1:31:39 Very interesting. Have you seen that footage?

1:31:41 No. Oh, so there was a particular

1:31:45 like this is where we go again. There's so many connections to

1:31:48 law enforcement, right? Yep.

1:31:49 That the the police had decided that they would have SLED had

1:31:53 decided they would like look at the house and, you know, see

1:31:57 what evidence they could find there.

1:31:58 And oddly enough, do you think maybe someone might in the

1:32:01 Murdoch family might have found out about that beforehand?

1:32:03 I think pretty likely because Randall his like Alex's brother

1:32:09 and and someone I think might have been, might have been John

1:32:12 Marvin, can't remember exactly who they rocked up in a car.

1:32:15 Now there's someone, it was a journalist who had a drone and

1:32:19 he knew about this fact that they were going to come and do a

1:32:22 search of the house. He didn't know it was.

1:32:25 It was purely coincidental. In the interview, he said he

1:32:27 knew that it was happening. Oh, OK, so he thought he'd put

1:32:29 up a drone and just keep an eye on the House and things.

1:32:31 OK. OK, so the day before this was

1:32:33 going to occur. Yep.

1:32:35 Rocks up this truck and he's got his drone up and he records

1:32:38 these people going into the house and bringing out a heap of

1:32:42 stuff, not just guns, but a heap of stuff out of the house, guns

1:32:46 included. And it's very much seen him.

1:32:49 They're carrying out these, those two particular guns he

1:32:51 carried over his arm like at one point and put them in the truck.

1:32:55 And now, oddly enough, they just then disappeared.

1:32:57 Completely forgot about that, I have seen that video.

1:33:00 You can see it on like YouTube or something in Google search.

1:33:02 Yeah, it's very, very clear. He follows them down the road

1:33:05 with his drone for a considerable way.

1:33:07 And it's very obvious that things were taken out of that

1:33:10 house before it was searched by SLED and that they couldn't find

1:33:14 their murder. Weapons.

1:33:16 Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean that's.

1:33:18 Too coincidental to go that that occurred.

1:33:20 I just, yeah. Oh, 100%, yeah.

1:33:24 The final tally after 45 minutes of deliberation and debate, Like

1:33:30 they did say there was debate about it and they were talking

1:33:32 around this issue of being able to kill one's child.

1:33:35 Yeah, a unanimous guilty verdict was returned on all counts.

1:33:41 So we're talking the financial crimes and the two counts of

1:33:44 murder. Yeah.

1:33:46 When the clerk of court, who she was a key hill, Yeah, she was,

1:33:52 yeah, a bit nervous about having to read that out to Alec.

1:33:55 But when she read out the guilty verdict, Alec basically sat

1:33:58 there and just stone faced, Yeah, I Buster was sitting next

1:34:04 to John Marvin in the court when the guilty verdict came down.

1:34:08 And obviously the cameras were focused on on them, too.

1:34:12 And Buster just kind of puts his hand, his head in his hands.

1:34:15 And I mean, his dad's now going to prison forever for murdering

1:34:20 his mom, for murdering his mom. And his brother.

1:34:23 So he was sentenced to two consecutive.

1:34:27 So not concurrent but consecutive sentences of his

1:34:31 natural life so he will never be released from prison.

1:34:34 He was then also convicted for it was 40 years he was given for

1:34:38 the financial stuff. Yeah.

1:34:39 So yeah, because we now move to now where he is appealing the

1:34:45 murder charges, there is he's not appealing the financial

1:34:49 stuff. So even with appealing the

1:34:52 murder charges, no matter what, he has to spend the 40 years in

1:34:58 prison, which I mean, 40 years would be the rest of his life.

1:35:01 He's now he's now, I mean, he was 52, I believe 51 at this, at

1:35:04 this point in time when he when he, the murders were occurred.

1:35:07 So I mean, 40 years, I mean, you're pushing it, I guess to

1:35:11 whether your life's still still around.

1:35:13 So 40 years is enough to get him to stay in jail for the rest of

1:35:16 his life. So I question that.

1:35:18 I mean, I get it for the purpose of like, if you're truly

1:35:20 innocent, that you would continue to fight that, that

1:35:22 it's not on you that you killed your wife and son.

1:35:24 But at the same time, you're gonna spend the rest of your

1:35:25 life in jail regardless. Why put yourself through it as

1:35:28 well? Because when you fucking did it.

1:35:32 But yeah, he's appealed that it's actually playing out.

1:35:35 At the moment. So.

1:35:36 In February of 2026. Part of that appeal that they've

1:35:40 put in is around that clerk and the law clerk that read out that

1:35:44 verdict. So Becky Hill, who has written a

1:35:47 book about the battle, she, she's been accused of tampering

1:35:54 with that jury. There's been evidence of

1:35:57 tampering with the jury by Becky Hill to gain information for her

1:36:03 book, right? She's resigned from the role.

1:36:05 I mean, so it's kind of almost admitting guilt.

1:36:08 But at the same time, if she did, she did.

1:36:12 And I guess he does deserve a retrial.

1:36:15 It's interesting, I've seen some commentary around this being

1:36:19 that that happened after the fact, after the trial, after the

1:36:23 verdict. And so where the legal precedent

1:36:26 sits with that, people aren't really sure.

1:36:28 So it does need to be tested in court and whether or not he will

1:36:35 be granted another trial, we won't know for months.

1:36:37 So the his legal team have put this to the court of the reasons

1:36:42 that they want a retrial to take place.

1:36:46 But whether or not that happens, we won't know for a long time.

1:36:49 Like I've I've seen somewhere that maybe by July we might

1:36:52 know. Yeah.

1:36:53 And it's February at the moment, so the wheels of justice, as we

1:36:56 know, turn very, very slowly. Especially when you're a

1:36:59 Murdoch. Yeah, well, I think he would

1:37:01 want this to go fast. Yeah.

1:37:03 Because he thinks he can get himself off because he's an

1:37:05 arrogant fucking son of a bitch. But he can't get himself off the

1:37:08 financials. Yeah.

1:37:09 So yeah, they say. He's doing this for his own

1:37:12 entertainment, like he, you know, I.

1:37:14 Mean there's him in him, Yeah. And he?

1:37:15 Can't help himself. No, he can't help himself.

1:37:17 And the fact that he thinks he can, he probably, he obviously

1:37:20 thinks he can win it. Yeah.

1:37:23 You know he's he's. He's is there it's I mean it's

1:37:27 pretty strong evidence against him.

1:37:28 Yeah. I can't see another jury that's

1:37:31 not tampered with. And you know, like as as, as

1:37:33 being put forward at the moment has occurred.

1:37:35 You redo that trial the way you know, I mean, I know that they,

1:37:38 I mean, obviously the prosecution will, I'm sorry, the

1:37:40 defence will change tact, you know, and all that kind of thing

1:37:43 to you know, was it that they've learnt they now, I think they

1:37:47 were in trial when they found out about the evidence in terms

1:37:49 of the the video footage on on Paul's phone.

1:37:52 They want 100% were already in trial.

1:37:54 Yeah. So The thing is like that's

1:37:55 something they can, they now know going into it that they can

1:37:59 start that from the beginning with the next jury to sort of be

1:38:02 on the back foot about that rather than on the front front

1:38:04 foot, sorry, rather than the back foot.

1:38:05 Yep. Yeah.

1:38:07 So I guess that could change a smart, a slight slightly

1:38:11 different trial in that respect. But to the point of then you

1:38:16 still know he's now, you know he's there at the time of their

1:38:18 deaths, basically like within minutes of him, of them being

1:38:21 shot, he was there. They also did just to sort of

1:38:24 prove that even if he had of walked away in that time frame

1:38:32 that he would have still been able to hear gunshots.

1:38:34 This is, that's the thing. It's not even about the fact

1:38:36 that he he could have. Yes.

1:38:37 OK, let's say at, you know, 446, he left AT-449-A gunshot going

1:38:43 off. He's 46840.

1:38:46 Sorry. Yeah.

1:38:46 Yeah. So 3-4 minutes.

1:38:48 Yep. You know, of leaving that

1:38:49 property. The gunshots would have been

1:38:50 that loud that he would have gone.

1:38:52 What the hell was that? And gone back, you know, so

1:38:55 calling at 10:06 PM. Yeah, finding their bodies.

1:38:58 Yeah. Oh, it's, it's ridiculous.

1:39:00 Like he's a, he's a fucking dickhead.

1:39:02 Let alone then, all the other evidence that goes along with

1:39:04 it. Yeah, just another really

1:39:06 interesting part about the trial.

1:39:08 The the judge, his name was Clifton Newman, who presided

1:39:11 over the trial of Alec. Yeah, he said.

1:39:13 We have a lawyer whose family has controlled the Court of

1:39:16 Justice for years, whose grandfather's portrait hangs at

1:39:19 the back of this very courthouse.

1:39:21 I have had to have ordered removed to ensure that the Fed,

1:39:25 a fair trial was held by both the state and the defense.

1:39:27 So that, again, shows the influence.

1:39:29 His grandfather's picture was in this courtroom.

1:39:32 Yeah. And like, he thought he was

1:39:36 above the law. He thought he could get away

1:39:38 with this motive, I think is something we need to talk about.

1:39:41 Like, yes, the motive for him doing this I think is

1:39:46 widespread. I think there's the financials.

1:39:49 I don't think he wanted Maggie to ever find out that he they

1:39:51 were in essentially in financial ruin because of him.

1:39:54 I mean, that is the the shame of that for him would be like, I

1:39:57 mean, they've come from a position of welfare like

1:39:59 generations. You're the fuck wit who couldn't

1:40:02 maintain it and couldn't grow it.

1:40:04 You know that. I think that would really kill

1:40:06 him as a narcissist. Definitely, yeah.

1:40:08 The fact that, you know, potentially, if Maggie was

1:40:11 thinking of leaving him, the shame that that would bring upon

1:40:14 the family, That was just not something the Murdochs did.

1:40:16 They didn't get divorced. They, they, they.

1:40:18 Just threatened them with. Murdering their lives and put.

1:40:20 Obituaries in the newspaper like his dad did.

1:40:23 His dad did to his mum and they were still ticked.

1:40:25 Off that was her she. The reason he did that was

1:40:27 because Libby, his wife did say to him, I'm I can't do this

1:40:31 anymore. I'm going to leave you.

1:40:32 Yep. And so he put a fucking obituary

1:40:34 in the newspaper to threaten her with her life.

1:40:36 Yeah. To keep her in the marriage.

1:40:37 Oh, it's. Probably worth noting as well,

1:40:39 Alex's dad died three days after Paul and Maggie of terminal.

1:40:44 He had, I believe, bowel cancer. Yeah, yeah.

1:40:46 Yeah. So yeah, like there's so much

1:40:49 tragedy befalling, befalling this family all at the same

1:40:52 time, most of it at the hands of fucking son.

1:40:54 Yeah. Crazy.

1:40:58 Totally. Nobody.

1:40:59 Nobody ever. Like Paul wasn't a good person.

1:41:01 No. No.

1:41:03 But he did not deserve to be murdered.

1:41:05 Nobody deserves to be murdered, especially by his father.

1:41:08 Yeah, Maggie. That one, like I can't come out,

1:41:13 no in respect to it because, OK, let's say his motive is the fact

1:41:17 of the shame of, like Paul say, going to jail for, you know, his

1:41:21 mistakes. Yeah, to me, you can spin that

1:41:24 of his mistakes as a young person, right.

1:41:29 I don't. I actually don't think he would

1:41:30 have gotten the full 55 years. No, he wouldn't have.

1:41:33 I think he would have gotten less than that.

1:41:35 Yeah, but he would have. I think he would have been

1:41:37 charged with it. I don't think they could have

1:41:38 got away with not charging him with it.

1:41:39 I think it would have happened. Convicted.

1:41:41 Sorry. Yeah, I do think he would have

1:41:43 been convicted of agreed of it, but I don't think he would have

1:41:45 gotten the full 55 years because he's a Murdoch.

1:41:48 So yeah, I think that that was, if that's the motive for killing

1:41:51 him, I find that really hard to swallow.

1:41:55 Like because legal? Legal commentators were saying

1:41:58 they thought he would probably get 20 years.

1:42:01 Yeah, that's where all my head was sort of going, so.

1:42:04 You're still going to be released in your very early 40s.

1:42:06 You can still live a very lovely natural natural if you get your

1:42:11 main together in that time and use it how it should be used.

1:42:13 That's right. And actually reform like, yeah.

1:42:18 Buster Junior, There's not a lot around about him.

1:42:22 He's definitely gone very, very quiet.

1:42:24 However, he is married and he's got a little young child.

1:42:29 He doesn't live in Hampton anymore.

1:42:32 He's certainly, you know, even geographically distanced himself

1:42:36 from. An area that happened, which I

1:42:39 don't blame him. No, nor do I.

1:42:41 In terms of Paul too, with, you know, the motive of on Paul the

1:42:46 a couple of days or when the the deaths were became public

1:42:50 knowledge kind of thing. The other thing was happening at

1:42:53 that time was a civil suit by the victims like sort of

1:42:57 Mallory's family of the Murdochs, Murdochs for for that

1:43:01 her death. Now that would have cost them

1:43:03 more than they had because of where the financial situation

1:43:06 was where they were. So that would have exposed him

1:43:08 as well. So the family obviously with

1:43:12 Paul being dead out of respect for the family going through a

1:43:16 tragedy at that point and also the fact of it just becoming

1:43:20 legally challenging then to move forward with that because then

1:43:24 they dropped. That civil suit, yeah, Because

1:43:26 you will essentially then have to sue Paul's estate.

1:43:28 And Paul didn't have personally have much wealth.

1:43:32 Yeah. So they even if they had have

1:43:34 pursued it, they wouldn't have gotten much, no.

1:43:36 So they did end up dropping it. It just it wasn't worth it to

1:43:39 them to continue on it. But also like, look, you've,

1:43:41 you've lost a son. We've lost a daughter out of

1:43:44 that as well. Like, they did drop it.

1:43:46 Yeah. Which I think maybe that was

1:43:49 more the motive. Yeah.

1:43:50 Of killing Paul. Yeah.

1:43:51 Which is sickening to think. I think it's that.

1:43:54 I think it's also like the shame that he's, yeah, you know, him

1:43:57 going to prison would bring on the family.

1:43:58 But haha, look where Alec is now.

1:44:00 The fuck wit what? Yeah, more shame than ever.

1:44:04 His behaviour from go to war is shameful.

1:44:06 Yeah, like I'm talking even before.

1:44:09 Like before Mallory's death. Before Gloria's death.

1:44:12 Yeah, you see them on that footage, particularly I find of

1:44:15 the hospital of the day of the the boat accident, the night of

1:44:18 and you watch him walking around that hospital.

1:44:21 Shuffling in his slippers and his dressing gown like he

1:44:26 couldn't even be fucking bothered getting dressed.

1:44:28 Sorry. I just, it does really repulse

1:44:33 me of like his attitude, this arrogance, total arrogance of I

1:44:38 own this place. Yeah.

1:44:39 Walking into, yeah, walking into people's, you know, you know,

1:44:44 hospital rooms, telling them what to do and what to say.

1:44:47 It's just disgusting. Who's how repulsive?

1:44:52 The hubris, It's it's, it is. It's repulsive behavior, Yeah.

1:44:58 Instead of asking people, it was documented how he walked into

1:45:01 rooms and he never asked any of them are you OK, how are you?

1:45:05 It was have you spoken to police yet?

1:45:07 That were the first questions he asked.

1:45:09 You've got to tell them. And Connor was driving.

1:45:10 And was. Driving like it was was not.

1:45:12 I'm coming in to check on you because my son was, you know,

1:45:14 involved in this and how. Oh my God.

1:45:17 Are you OK as almost any other parent would do?

1:45:20 Oh. God, I can't even imagine being

1:45:24 that parent of that of the child who was driving that boat.

1:45:30 Look, you know, people make mistakes in their life and you'd

1:45:34 hope that, you know, people could forgive mistakes and that

1:45:37 yeah. And then but that would be as a

1:45:38 parent, that would be your role of like, mate, you need to get

1:45:41 your shit together. Like you, you have to cop this.

1:45:43 This is, you know, like that's no, not that is not the

1:45:46 parenting that he had. That was not what he did.

1:45:50 It was a family of cover up. It was it was just the way the

1:45:53 family handled things right from, you know, Buster senior

1:45:56 and down. Yeah, it was a culture within

1:45:59 their family and no one ever took responsibility like they

1:46:03 should have. Well, there were families within

1:46:05 the Hampton community who would tell their children don't spend

1:46:09 time with the Murdochs because they they knew they were above

1:46:12 their law and they didn't want their kids involved in that

1:46:14 stuff. It's good, good, good advice.

1:46:16 Yeah. Where's good?

1:46:17 Advice those and those families that did spend time with their

1:46:20 kids were being spending time with the busted, with Buster and

1:46:23 with with Paul. The the comments from those

1:46:25 families in interviews have been that they warned their children

1:46:28 you will never don't get mixed with things because you won't.

1:46:31 They won't get into trouble. You will.

1:46:34 They're right. I mean, this is the thing that

1:46:36 that that was so widely spread in Hampton County of the power

1:46:42 and control this family had for themselves.

1:46:46 But you were. You'd be collateral damage than

1:46:48 anything. Else, Oh yeah, they they would

1:46:49 throw you under the bus to save themselves without even thinking

1:46:52 about it and. If and as one, as one lawyer

1:46:54 said, if it was back in the day of Buster Buster Senior, it

1:46:57 wouldn't be collateral damage of like law things coming down you

1:47:00 it would you'd just be dead. You'd just be swimming with the

1:47:02 fishes. Jesus.

1:47:04 Christ. And I wonder how much of that

1:47:05 actually still continued through this family.

1:47:07 I mean, we don't. We don't know.

1:47:08 We don't know. We don't know.

1:47:12 Wow. Please let us know what you

1:47:13 think. I can't imagine there's anyone

1:47:16 out there who thinks that Alec isn't responsible.

1:47:21 Oh yeah, I reckon there'll be a few come.

1:47:24 I mean, there'll be a few people out there who can swing this.

1:47:27 I don't know. Yeah, Alec himself, Yeah.

1:47:30 Yeah, fellow narcissist. You know he can do it.

1:47:34 I can do. It yeah.

1:47:38 Thanks for joining us again for another episode, everyone.

1:47:40 We really appreciate everyone joining us.

1:47:43 Please don't forget to share our podcast with someone.

1:47:46 That's what we would love you guys to do this week if you can.

1:47:48 It would be very, very helpful, someone who you think might like

1:47:51 listening to us. Keep your case suggestions

1:47:54 coming in as well. We're sort of up to the point

1:47:56 where we're going to start planning our next block of of

1:47:59 recordings. So please let us know what you

1:48:02 want to hear and we will be more than happy to go down that path.

1:48:06 Yeah. You can also join us over on

1:48:08 Patreon. You get a bonus episode every

1:48:10 month that's at patreon.com/two Crime Besties.

1:48:15 Excellent. Love it.

1:48:16 Love your work. Once again, Emma.

1:48:17 Thank you, Meg. Awesome.

1:48:19 Stay curious. Crime besties.

1:48:21 Bye.