Episode 78 - The Murdaugh Family: Part 1 of 2

0:15 Welcome to Crime Besties, we're here for another episode and

0:18 another week of recording. Meg, as always, how are you?

0:22 How's it been? What's been going on?

0:24 Yeah, it's been, it's been a week.

0:27 Yeah. Yeah, it has.

0:28 It's really been a week. I've had a really lovely family

0:30 getaway last weekend and stuff and getting back into things

0:34 this week. It's been, yeah, it's been a

0:36 hectic week. I'm actually this week 'cause it

0:39 was slightly shorter for me, having had a little bit of a

0:41 getaway. I'm feeling a little bit like

0:43 it's fucking Friday. When did this happen?

0:45 Yeah, I. Know I feel like that and I

0:47 didn't have the, you know, the extended weekend probably we

0:50 need to do a bit of a shout out to pat happy birthday, Pat.

0:53 Happy 80th birthday. Make sure you get the 80th.

0:56 Oh yeah, sorry. She loves 80th.

0:58 Yeah. Massive shout out to your mum.

1:02 Absolutely. So it was a big weekend of

1:06 hilarity and drinking. Wine.

1:08 Yeah, I'm. Glad to hear that And beach, you

1:10 know like so perfect weather. It was so good.

1:13 Yeah, 'cause it wasn't too hot, but it was.

1:15 Nice. It was like you could sit on the

1:16 beach all day, weather like it. Was lovely.

1:19 That's perfect. Yeah, we really enjoyed it.

1:21 I think all everyone enjoyed it. The kids had an absolute ball

1:24 and you know they love spending time with their cousins so

1:26 couldn't get them off the trampoline.

1:28 Uncle Andy has to get one for his niece.

1:30 Fruit for my niece. Like it's just stop.

1:32 Stop being an A hole. Yeah, come on, Uncle Andy.

1:35 I mean, yeah, do it for. Goodness, do it.

1:38 Just do it, Trampoline. Trampoline.

1:41 I love it. So I I I didn't have quite the

1:48 weekend you had, but I did wanna talk to you about something.

1:50 Have you watched the Heather Gay Surviving Mormonism doco?

1:54 I have watched. There's three episodes.

1:57 Maybe I haven't is No, I have watched all three then and what

1:59 did you? Think.

2:01 It was very interesting I. Say the same thing.

2:04 And like, she's not one of my favs on that.

2:06 Oh, she's. One of my absolutely, I know.

2:08 You love her. Yeah, I've her.

2:09 I mean, I saw a different side of her in that, that I like that

2:13 side of her. That's that side of her I really

2:15 do actually like and relate to. And whereas who she is in that

2:19 series, sometimes I just find that she stirs shit for no

2:22 reason. I mean, that's what makes us so

2:24 good to be. Honest, yeah, but she but she's

2:26 backstabbing and not like be upfront about it, like, you

2:29 know, yeah. So I don't like that side of it.

2:31 But in that note, she I think she's really, she was

2:34 compassionate. She acknowledges her own flaws

2:37 in the situations. You know, like that sort of

2:39 stuff that I just found that really compelling.

2:41 Me too, yeah. I thought it was really well

2:43 done. Yeah, I wasn't expecting to.

2:46 I mean, I I wanted to watch it 'cause I really do like her.

2:49 Yeah, but I wasn't expecting her to be so frank about a lot of

2:53 the. No, no, that's so true.

2:55 I actually feel the same way 'cause I feel like she can dodge

2:57 things and not, yeah, I feel like with that whole, I know

3:00 she's written a book and all these sorts of things, but I

3:02 actually find sometimes I kind of go, you're not telling us

3:04 everything. Yeah.

3:05 But I haven't read a book, so maybe it wasn't there.

3:07 She didn't wanna put it out on the show.

3:08 I get that you're trying to sell a book, but yeah, in that I

3:11 found that she was very open with everything.

3:14 Yeah, highly recommend if you're into it and you wanna know a bit

3:17 more about like the dark side of warm and this.

3:20 Is it, I mean, I, I bring it straight away together.

3:22 It is like it is crime orientated in that sense.

3:24 I do. It's very much so.

3:26 It's like a cult and a leg. She talks about.

3:28 Well, I. Mean I.

3:30 Think it's not even a like a colleague?

3:31 Yeah. Controversial yeah so I I think

3:38 that it really get does talk a lot about though a lot of crime

3:41 that yeah has been committed by the Mormon church and people

3:44 within the Mormon church that and the people have acted and so

3:48 yeah it's a very. It's very, really, really

3:50 enlightening. Watch if that's something that

3:52 interests you at all. Yeah.

3:53 And not like, and I, I just have to say, if you're not into Real

3:55 Housewives, it still watch this, I think.

3:57 It's not. Oh yeah, You don't have to know

3:59 anything about the house. No, no, absolutely.

4:01 That's just who she is on the other side of her life, I guess.

4:03 But yeah, this is actually, I think who she really is.

4:05 So I can watch the the activism that she wants to do.

4:08 Like it's. Yeah.

4:09 Yeah, for sure. Yeah, sure.

4:11 The other thing that's going on at the minute of the Winter

4:13 Olympics. Mm.

4:14 Hmm. Favorite sport?

4:16 Go. Oh, so many.

4:20 It's the curling. Isn't it?

4:22 It's up there, it's up there. But I do love the one where like

4:25 the knees go like the. At the moguls, OK.

4:28 But there's another. One.

4:29 No, it's the moguls where their knees go up and down.

4:31 Yeah, but it's like. Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure that's

4:34 the moguls. No, there's not.

4:35 I was watching it in slow MO, the moguls, and I'm like, how

4:38 the fuck are their knees not busting every time they hit one

4:40 of those little bumpy things? Mm hmm.

4:43 I look at that and my knees ache.

4:46 But how do these people survive this shit?

4:49 I know. So what happened?

4:50 Did you see the Channel 9 News reporter who did the drunk the

4:55 drunk cross? I have only seen the apologies

4:59 SO. You need to go and actually

5:00 watch the video so. I need to.

5:02 Just Danica Mason is the reporter, and what she says is

5:06 that she's slurring. She is just on another.

5:10 Plane on. When she's doing this cross, Oh,

5:12 she was just talking about like the the weather where they are.

5:16 And she's like, oh, and it's just like so and she's slurring

5:19 her word. Oh, I love it.

5:20 And then yeah, the the the apology, this I just thought was

5:23 absolutely hilarious. When she's like, oh, you know,

5:26 it's the altitude and the cold and I.

5:27 Didn't have dinner, I. Didn't have dinner and I'm like,

5:30 it might have actually been the 2 bottles of wine you consume

5:33 before you went live on air, I don't know.

5:36 She's apologising to Karl Stefanovic, who's?

5:39 Like shit, the irony. I think he said something like,

5:43 ah, we've all been there, yeah. Carl's nothing if not someone to

5:49 be self, you know, self deprecated.

5:51 So yeah. So that's funny.

5:53 But getting back to the winter sports I have, I just cannot

5:57 believe how well Australia is actually doing.

5:59 Yeah, you know, you see our winter athletes practicing on,

6:04 you know, mount like not even snow, but on like, you know,

6:09 boards and schools. And I think, fucking hell, we're

6:14 they're doing so. Well, oh absolutely.

6:16 I mean, we do have some pretty good snow fields here at

6:18 particular times of the. Years, yeah, but you know.

6:20 Like, it's not a lot. I mean, there's like the girl

6:22 who lives down in like Ocean Grove here in Victoria that I

6:25 mean, you think how far away she is from a, a ski slope and she's

6:29 incredible. Amazing.

6:30 That's the most obviously a natural talent there.

6:32 And yeah, obviously hours and hours and hours.

6:34 Intrigued throughout it though how the the commentators made

6:38 many reference to it around the fact of like majority of our

6:44 athletes who are at the Winter Olympics come from very wealthy

6:47 families. Yeah.

6:49 Well, yeah, I do, yeah. And there's there's like the odd

6:51 ones where they do mention, they make sure they mention it when

6:53 it happens. It's like, you know, these kids

6:54 started doing this through, you know, school camps and stuff.

6:57 You know, he's come from literally not from money and

7:01 he's but he's made it through, you know, something like that.

7:03 But it's really interesting to see but.

7:05 Yeah, but I mean, it's in Australia.

7:07 It is so expensive to ski, like, it's ridiculous.

7:09 It's pretty transport. Yeah, for sure.

7:12 I do have some shoutouts for today as well.

7:15 Yeah, we've had a busy week, had a very busy week.

7:17 So we've got a few new patrons, Charmaine McNally, Rebecca

7:21 Devine, Lauren and Justin Ware. And then we also had a coffee

7:26 bought for us by Crystal. So thank you to everybody for

7:28 supporting us. It truly means so much.

7:30 I I just can't. We say it every time.

7:33 It still blows my mind whenever we get somebody, you know, pop

7:36 something through. And our Patreon community is

7:39 growing. Yeah.

7:39 And we really appreciate that. I love the engagement over

7:42 there. We get some lovely little likes

7:44 and comments and we really, truly appreciate that.

7:46 So thank you, everybody who supports us, even just for

7:49 listening. Oh, this is it.

7:50 Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. Absolutely.

7:52 Our listens at the moment are really escalating as well.

7:55 So I think I've had a beautiful message just yesterday.

7:58 I think it was not counting in a person's name and I will find it

8:00 and I will mention it next week, maybe on that episode.

8:01 But a really beautiful message from someone saying like how

8:04 she's been telling all of her friends and family about us,

8:07 which is just amazing. So I love hearing those

8:10 comments. And that's the best thing you

8:11 can do for us is mention this to someone else because it grows

8:14 the podcast and all that helps. So that's that is so good and

8:17 it's great the way people are enjoying it.

8:19 That's it. It's not just us two in a, you

8:22 know, in a, in a vacuum. We love that.

8:25 We love that, even though if we were in a vacuum, we'd probably

8:27 still be doing this. This is the thing, I love it.

8:30 It's my Friday. Friday, it's a good way to end

8:32 the week. It is now we are going to be

8:37 discussing the Murdoch family murders and everything that goes

8:42 before and after that. Because it's such a massive,

8:46 massive angle, like web of Oh my God, everything.

8:52 We've decided to split it into two parts.

8:55 So this week we're going to be focusing on what happened before

9:01 the I guess the family murders happened.

9:04 And then next week we'll be focusing on everything that kind

9:06 of happened from the family murders and onwards.

9:09 I would imagine a lot of people know this story, even just

9:14 having a little bit of an idea, only because the Netflix

9:17 documentary or docu series about this was really, really, really

9:23 popular upon its release. Yeah, because this story is

9:26 fucking crazy. It's batshit crazy.

9:29 And then also, I think any story that involves really rich people

9:33 is so intriguing. Yeah, don't you think?

9:36 Oh, absolutely. Because, well, they everyone's

9:39 intrigued by their life, you know, in, in any way.

9:42 Like anyone who has access to that much money, you think, how

9:45 do you live? Yeah, and they do live a very

9:48 different life to the the majority.

9:49 I mean, you were talking. About the other, although I

9:51 wanted I do we we will get into this I reckon as we go go along.

9:55 But if I had their money, yeah, I wouldn't spend it the way they

9:58 spent. It Oh my God.

10:00 Well, the drugs alone. Drugs are notwithstanding, no

10:06 joking, but just I think I think it says a lot about like, you

10:12 know, they come from old money. Yeah.

10:15 And this is a. Very.

10:16 There's old money and new money are so different.

10:18 Yeah, yeah, very true. Yeah.

10:20 And I think I think we need to probably keep that, that kind of

10:24 theme going because I think sometimes you look at things

10:26 that they do or I don't know, and you think, Oh my God, but

10:29 you've got so much money, why didn't you just do this instead?

10:31 But anyway. Well, I mean, as many people

10:33 say, you don't become that rich without being a tired.

10:35 Ass. That's it, 100%.

10:37 And they, they kind of lived that life.

10:40 Yeah. Yeah.

10:41 So what we're talking about, so you will see their name written.

10:45 It's MURDAUGH. Yeah, people pronounce it in

10:49 lots of different ways. Yeah, they pronounce it Murdoch.

10:52 So we are going to be pronouncing it Murdoch from here

10:55 on out. Yeah, I did look up like a

10:56 Scottish pronunciation website and it did also say Murdoch.

11:00 You definitely hear plenty of people saying murder or and I

11:02 think people 'cause I think people like the roll off the

11:04 tongue of the murder, murders, murder, you know, the murder.

11:07 Murders, Murders. Like, yeah, so it's a.

11:11 Bit of a tongue. A bit of a tongue.

11:12 For sure. But yeah, but no, I hate they

11:14 themselves. I have listened to many of

11:16 police tape and all those sorts of things.

11:18 They call themselves Murdoch, so I think that's what we need to

11:21 go with. Yeah.

11:22 The other one we probably need to mention too then is Alec.

11:26 Yeah, his name is Alexander. I like it.

11:28 Well, it's Richard Alexander Murdoch, but he goes by Alec,

11:33 not Alex. However, everywhere you see it

11:35 written, it's Alex. It's not like they write Alec.

11:39 But, well, there's not AC in his name there, isn't there?

11:41 But yeah, I don't know then why it's not Alex.

11:44 Yeah, it's weird, yeah, but they all call him Mr. At least of the

11:47 weird things about this. So true.

11:50 This family is batshit crazy. So for over 100 years we're

11:55 talking. So this is set in the Deep South

11:58 in South Carolina, Hampton County, South Carolina.

12:01 Can you do a Southern American accent for me?

12:04 Hell no. Can you?

12:08 Oh, just. Come from.

12:14 The phrase actually too, yeah. So this is.

12:20 Sort of the oyster. No.

12:21 Can't. No.

12:21 No, can't. No.

12:22 No, wait, you're gonna go in that.

12:23 I knew where you were going with this.

12:25 We need to talk about that too. Any same.

12:27 Sorry, we are talking about a family that is so well

12:30 established in South Carolina, especially in Hampton County.

12:34 They are over 100 years, three or more, 4 generations was it?

12:39 I think they were up to the. 4 up to the four with Yeah, with

12:41 all or. Alec 'cause it was 3 in who were

12:45 being solicitors and then there was Alec and then Buster.

12:48 So we're coming to the 4th and 5th generation.

12:51 Yeah, yeah. So the three Alec's 33

12:54 predecessors or his ancestors were what they call the county

13:01 solicitor, which is the same thing in most other states in

13:04 America, it's the District Attorney, but they just call it

13:07 the solicitor. They.

13:08 Just call it that it's. Something, it is almost in South

13:11 Carolina, it is pretty much an unpaid position.

13:13 It is a position of privilege. And so most solicitors will

13:18 actually then have a private practice as well and that's how

13:20 they have to make their money. So they are a family who is

13:25 incredibly well known within the legal community and then in the

13:29 community at large because they are involved with all of like

13:35 law enforcement and the legal fraternity and just within the

13:39 community of Hampton County. Yeah, they are religious, I

13:46 suppose. And they have lots, like most of

13:50 the family units have lots of kids.

13:53 And so there's lots of brothers and sisters and cousins.

13:56 And, you know, it's a very large extended family.

13:59 There's a point where they, they're kind of, there's a photo

14:01 of like the family at where Alex's father receives an award

14:05 for basically his, his service to this solicitor role.

14:10 And there's a whole family photo of them, which is not long

14:12 before I think that like the shit hits the fan basically with

14:14 a lot of this stuff, although this is ongoing from all parts,

14:17 but the stuff that we're gonna focus on.

14:18 Mm hmm. And so you see that family photo

14:21 and the the the amount of grandchildren is just

14:24 unbelievable. Yeah.

14:26 So there's three siblings like Alec is like, is he the youngest

14:29 or the three or the middle? No, I think he's he's the

14:31 middle. Sorry, that Yeah.

14:33 So there's Randall, who's his older brother, and then the

14:36 younger brother, John Marvin. John Marvin, Yeah.

14:38 Yeah, yeah. So it's, yeah, there's only

14:41 three siblings there, but the three of them seem to have, I

14:44 mean, I think Alec only having two kids is kind of the unusual.

14:48 Yeah. The others seem to have 10,000

14:50 children. They all came out of nowhere.

14:51 Yeah. There's a whole cast of

14:53 characters in this story, so I thought maybe we could introduce

14:56 a few of them so people kind of have a little bit of context as

14:59 to who we're talking about and then.

15:00 We may need, I may need to try and put a little bit of a family

15:02 tree on the on the socials for everyone because it does get

15:05 kind of complicated. It does get kind of complicated.

15:08 So I think we'll talk about it from Alex, starting with Alex.

15:11 Yeah, he was this nuclear family's patriarch.

15:16 Wow. He he was very high-powered.

15:19 And when I say that the solicitor role, while it didn't

15:22 carry a huge financial incentive or a huge financial gain, yeah,

15:29 it certainly gave a lot of power and a lot of influence.

15:34 And he absolutely used that to his advantage.

15:38 Yes, he was described as a lawyer with a silver tongue,

15:43 like he he had the gift of the gab and he had that sort of good

15:47 old boy South Carolina charm, you know, there.

15:50 You go, thank you. But he had a very unusual voice

15:55 in general, I find. Yeah, which comes into play a

15:57 little bit like the fact that kind of distinct his voice is.

16:00 His voice is very distinctive. Yeah, it's very kind of, it's

16:03 not commanding like he would expect somebody in that kind of

16:06 position to be. When you describe him as having

16:08 this silver tongue, you kind of then get this, this vert this

16:11 like, I don't know, this sound in your voice of like, I mean a

16:13 very a southern. I think it just like can be very

16:15 charming and very like, you know, whereas yes, what he said

16:18 was that, but his the sound didn't kind of match I.

16:21 Agree. No, I agree.

16:23 Yeah. I think what we're gonna find

16:25 out, you know, about Alec as we go along is that he was actually

16:30 incredibly manipulative. He was a drug user and he was

16:36 addicted to opioids. And you know what that inspired

16:40 We will we will be discussing over the next couple of

16:43 episodes. Sure.

16:45 He had a, he had a nickname Big Red because he was big and he

16:51 had really, really red hair and so did both of his children.

16:55 It is fire engine red. They are total Rangers.

17:02 As we say in Australia, lovingly.

17:06 Lovingly, lovingly. I'm married to one, Yeah, and

17:09 one of my sons has red hair. Your your family aren't

17:12 obviously redheads. Though, Well, they're more

17:13 Orban, I think. Yeah, yeah, but they're not fire

17:16 engine red. No, not fire engine Red no.

17:18 But yeah, they they were very distinctive looking, I think

17:21 because of their red hair. And they sort of really stood

17:23 out. And they were tall.

17:24 They were really tall. As yeah, very sweet.

17:27 Then Alec, then when he was at university and studying to be a

17:32 lawyer he met Maggie and Maggie was also I believe she was

17:39 studying law as well. And they hit it off and they

17:44 ended up getting married and having two children.

17:49 So she is described as, from what I've heard from multiple

17:55 sources, as being a really lovely lady, very sort of

18:00 community minded, but kind of from the impression that I get,

18:04 no one actually said this, but I think she might have kept to

18:06 herself a bit. The reason I say that is because

18:10 she was actually really good friends, almost best friends

18:13 with both of her housekeepers. And I'm like that to me says

18:17 that maybe she didn't go out a lot, like maybe she wasn't as

18:21 involved in the community. And then I questioned like, why

18:24 was that? You know, was it because she

18:26 knew what was going on and she didn't want to be out there and

18:29 associated? I don't know.

18:30 Because I I find her intriguing. Me too.

18:33 Because we don't know a lot about her.

18:35 No. But because but The thing is

18:37 with her that I find the most interesting is that you just say

18:40 she seemed to be a bit of a homebody in that sense of like,

18:42 you know, she her best friends were her housekeepers, not

18:45 outside of the home yet she had interesting relationships with

18:50 her children. Yes.

18:51 And so you'd think that someone that you're describing there of

18:54 like someone who's like at home wants to end friendly with the

18:57 with her help basically would be someone who'd be quite hands on

19:01 them with her kids. No, no, she was involved, I

19:06 would say at a level. Yeah, but but not.

19:10 Do you feel like maybe, yeah. Do you like maybe she was

19:12 involved because she was there. It wasn't like.

19:16 She was involved, I think more of a in a sense that she knew

19:19 what they were doing and what was happening, sure, but didn't

19:22 participate actively. Parent.

19:25 Yeah, OK, yeah, I think I think that's probably fairly fair.

19:28 Yeah. People describe their home as

19:31 being really warm and welcoming. Yes, in that I think she she's

19:35 very house A. Host all the time, Yes.

19:37 To me, what's that? To me that her role in home was

19:41 hosting not. Mother parenting, yeah, I think

19:45 that's really fair and we'll get into that probably as we go

19:48 through this story and introduce more characters.

19:50 Too, apparently she would decorate the home for any any

19:53 said to say season change, you know, anything that was coming.

19:55 And, you know, I mean, they hosted a lot of things doing

19:57 what they did. They would have parties for

19:59 everything and anything. And she would host all these

20:01 things and she would do amazing decorations and yeah, these

20:06 sorts of things. And that was, you know, she had

20:07 she had help to do that with, you know, with housekeepers, et

20:09 cetera. But she LED all of those things.

20:12 So she was. Talented in that way.

20:14 Yeah. She was also described as

20:16 somebody. She liked the finer things.

20:18 So she liked really expensive jewellery.

20:21 She had like this particular tennis bracelet that she always

20:24 wore that was like extremely expensive.

20:27 She was always decked out in gold and diamonds.

20:30 Yeah. And that those things, she was

20:32 really they. She valued that kind of thing a

20:34 lot. Which is interesting in that

20:36 lifestyle she LED really in some ways.

20:38 Definitely. Because they will.

20:39 Yeah, again, we'll get to that in a second.

20:40 But they lived, you know, in a rural like ranch kind of

20:44 property where they. Which comes from where they

20:46 were, where they were like, yeah, that's, that's the

20:48 community they lived in. Like, absolutely.

20:50 That's what people do there. Yeah.

20:51 I mean, it's if it's not, it's not for you, not for you, not

20:53 for everybody kind of situation. And very different to say, a

20:56 wealthy person who lives in New York or, you know, that kind of

20:58 situation. But their wealth was, you know,

21:01 yeah, in this ranch kind of style living of like, you know,

21:04 hunting all those sorts of things that she was around, but

21:06 yet she would still wear the diamond rings, but still getting

21:09 a muck in and, you know, clean out, you know, dog.

21:12 Dog House. Kennels and things like that.

21:13 So she it was, it's very juxtaposing, I guess.

21:16 But but yeah, she could manage both, yeah.

21:19 And I think she was always, like, really well dressed,

21:21 really well groomed. So I think appearances to her

21:23 meant a lot. Like, that was right.

21:25 That was really important to her.

21:27 Yeah. They then went on to have two

21:30 children. So the eldest son was Buster.

21:33 So his name was actually Randolph's junior, weren't?

21:38 Yeah, I guess he would have been like the 5th.

21:41 Yeah, but he but I think he was just like Randolph Junior.

21:45 Right. Murdoch Yeah.

21:47 Because he went with the Buster nickname.

21:49 Which is they named him Buster. Really.

21:51 It's so bloody complicated because his great grandfather,

21:54 who had passed away by this point, yeah, was also nicknamed

21:58 Buster. So there's two Buster Murdochs

22:00 in this story. We're not really going to be

22:01 talking about the older ones, so don't worry too much about that.

22:04 Because his grandfather was also Randolph, yes.

22:07 Yeah, yeah. And his uncle is Randolph, yes,

22:10 Yeah. There's so many of them.

22:12 Yeah. I mean, choose another fucking

22:15 So the He was the oldest son. He was the golden child.

22:20 Definitely to Maggie, but also to Alec.

22:24 Yeah. And they pinned a lot of their

22:27 hopes and dreams on this first born son of theirs.

22:30 I've believed the pressure was on him from very, very early on

22:33 in his life to following his father's footsteps and carry on

22:37 that family tradition. That is a massive burden to and

22:40 pressure to have on a person. Absolutely.

22:42 But that was the expectation and you know, all of that.

22:47 He actually ended up going to university to study.

22:53 Law. And he was actually expelled

22:57 from the program because he was found to have plagiarized

23:01 several assignments or whatever, something like that.

23:06 He he will actually come into our story in the not too distant

23:11 future now because of certain involvements that he had with

23:14 victims that played into this story.

23:16 Yeah. The next son was Paul Murdoch.

23:18 Now he's the youngest son, the family's, you know, quote, UN

23:22 quote, problem child. He he's much.

23:26 He gives me spare, you know. Yeah.

23:28 Like kind of the, the air, the spare air, kind of like vibe big

23:32 time, yeah. Yeah, totally, totally.

23:34 I think he marched the bit of his own drum.

23:36 He didn't give a shit about the family legacy or the dynasty

23:39 that he grew up from. Well, he did to a point, is that

23:41 he he liked the money and that. Oh yes.

23:43 I'm not saying he didn't like the money.

23:45 He certainly liked the lifestyle it afforded.

23:47 Yeah, but that wasn't ever gonna be him, I don't think.

23:50 Oh no, no, but I mean, but I think he was raised to almost be

23:56 that. Like he was a bit like over

23:58 there mate, like. Yeah, pushed aside and he so he

24:02 says that as well in interviews that the police have done and

24:06 then subsequent interviews after, Yeah, after some things

24:11 that again we're gonna talk about soon.

24:13 He was interviewed and he actually and even his one of his

24:17 ex girlfriends talks about the fact that he actually had a much

24:21 closer relationship with his housekeeper.

24:23 Yeah. She was more like a mother

24:25 figure to him than his own mother.

24:27 Yeah, I think Maggie definitely doted much more on Buster and

24:32 focused all of her attention and pressure on Buster.

24:36 And yeah, as you said, they kind of like swept Paul to the side

24:38 and were like, well, and Gloria really took him under her wing

24:42 and she loved him like her own stupid she.

24:45 Saw who he was too, I think. But she loved him anyway.

24:48 Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

24:49 Yeah, she loved him for all these flaws, whereas I feel like

24:52 maybe Maggie and Alec might have seen those flaws and they didn't

24:56 love him in the same way. It wasn't unconditional.

24:58 No, this is it. And I find I just, I've really

25:00 struggled with that. Like, how can you do that with

25:02 your your own kids? Yeah.

25:05 I mean, we all have our moments with one where we're not like as

25:07 happy with them, but you always love them.

25:09 Oh, you know what I mean? It's just, yeah, I've really

25:12 struggled with that whole concept.

25:13 They're putting my focus on on this child.

25:15 And I don't know you over there. I'm not, not.

25:17 I can't know how you do that. I know.

25:20 It's yeah, but this whole family is fucked up like that.

25:23 And I think that goes back. I think that's a generational

25:26 thing. Yeah, OK.

25:27 So are you saying like the first born son is like?

25:31 Necessarily the first born when we get to Alec.

25:33 Well, that's true too. So, I mean, I know there was

25:36 rivalry really between him and his brother Randall, as much as

25:39 he comes into play in some of this stuff and he has a role in

25:42 all of this. He was older than Alec, Yeah.

25:44 And it, but he played second fiddle to Yeah.

25:46 What went on here? And he was a lawyer, too.

25:48 It's not like he wasn't a lawyer.

25:50 No. But for whatever reason, yeah,

25:52 Alec was chosen. You're right.

25:53 I actually hadn't thought about that.

25:54 Yeah. So just this, the golden child

25:57 there that has been chosen. Yeah.

25:59 And it may, it doesn't seem really rank in terms of birth

26:02 order, didn't seem to really play into that.

26:05 Yeah, there's personality traits obviously shone through that

26:08 we're focused on, Yeah. And that's how they ended up the

26:13 way they ended up interesting. It's really interesting.

26:16 It really psychologically and stuff.

26:17 I find this all fascinating. It's so fascinating.

26:20 And how this, the generation, how does it, how do you get to

26:22 this? Yeah, like 'cause it doesn't

26:24 start here. No, like this is.

26:26 Yeah, no. So what?

26:29 We're gonna talk. We're gonna actually go in

26:30 chronological order today. Yeah.

26:32 And the reason? So we're gonna start with

26:35 something that happened before any of this came to a head.

26:39 So in the context of us telling this now, it's probably worth

26:44 just keeping in the back of your mind that everybody thought at

26:48 these times that this family was amazing.

26:51 They were like, pillars of the community.

26:53 Yeah. Yep.

26:54 And they were so well respected because of the roles they held

26:57 within the community. Absolutely.

26:59 All right, let's start with Stephen Smith.

27:03 Stephen Smith was a young 19 year old nursing student, openly

27:10 gay and just the light of his mum and his sister's life.

27:14 He had a twin sister, his mum's name is Sandy and I believe his

27:18 sister's name Stephanie that. Sounds.

27:21 Yeah, it sounds. Right, they were both S names.

27:23 I know like they were all S names.

27:26 He was. On the night of the 8th of July

27:28 in 2015, he was found dead in the middle of the road in rural

27:36 Hampton County, South Carolina. Now it's a really fascinating

27:42 situation. So his car was found 3 miles

27:46 away from his body. The gas cap was off and his

27:52 wallet was still inside the vehicle.

27:56 When the police found his body, he had a gash on his forehead.

28:04 A dislike, Really nasty. Really nasty.

28:06 Like almost to the point where it deformed his.

28:08 Well, it did. It deformed his face.

28:10 Yeah, a dislocated shoulder. But.

28:14 And the way his body was lying was.

28:17 Interesting he also had his mobile phone in his pocket.

28:20 And his shoes damaged and. Yes.

28:22 And his shoes were still on his feet and they were very loosely

28:26 tied. They were like those old DC

28:27 runners, like you, just. Everyone back in that time had

28:30 those runners. Yeah.

28:31 And they were like, you know, you never.

28:33 The boys never tied them tight. They always wore them loose,

28:37 which just I can't and I love, I cannot have a loose shoe.

28:41 It has to be tied. Spent some time with my son.

28:44 Oh, that's why it drives me mad. That's why every time I see him

28:46 I'm like Oh my God, can I please do a fishy laces?

28:48 But I know that would drive him mad.

28:51 I know he looks at every time I say no, can you tie your shoes

28:54 up, please? They're not tied enough.

28:54 And he's like, they're fine. No, I can't.

28:58 Even. No, no, no.

29:01 Come on, turn me. So the police were like 911 was

29:07 called, the operator sends out police ambulance and what comes

29:12 to the fore or what they decide has happened is that he's run

29:17 out of petrol, left his car on the side of the road to go and

29:21 find petrol. However, there's so many issues

29:24 with this story also, what they then, sorry, what they then

29:27 allege is that a semi trailer, a semi trailer truck was driving

29:31 past and possibly unbeknownst to the truck driver even has hit

29:35 him. Yeah.

29:36 And that has caused that laceration to his face and then

29:40 he's fallen, dislocated his shoulder and the laceration to

29:43 his head is what's actually killed him.

29:45 Yeah, OK. But.

29:47 There's so many, there's. So many things.

29:48 So let's get into the issues for this.

29:50 Yeah. The first thing is if he this

29:53 was, this happened at like 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning.

29:56 Did it? Yes.

29:57 Yeah, it was really. Yeah, it was.

29:58 Really. Yeah.

29:59 Early as hours of the morning, yeah.

30:00 So the first thing is that if he was walking towards a gas

30:04 station, he was actually. Walking in the wrong direction.

30:08 He was walking towards home like not where the gas station is.

30:11 Yeah, but he'd taken. The other thing is if you leave

30:14 your car on the side of the road, you don't take your gas

30:16 cap off and leave it off. If that was me, I would have put

30:19 it back on, shut it. Yeah, in my wallet to go and

30:22 paint the. Car up like coping the car,

30:24 Yeah. And left it in that state.

30:26 Which that's where they start seeing that like that.

30:29 The police did sort of say that that felt staged in some way.

30:32 It's like pointing to something. It's like, oh, no, I'm out of

30:34 fuel. Look, see, look here.

30:36 Yeah, yeah. Whereas anyone else would have

30:38 yet closed that up and locked their car up to go looking for

30:40 fuel. Yep, the police did look into

30:43 whether there was any mechanical issues with the car, and there

30:45 weren't. No, it had actually run out of

30:47 fuel. Legitimate, legit, had run out

30:48 of fuel. His sister has said too, that I

30:53 mean, this is something that they did regularly in the area

30:55 that they would walk home from places or whatever.

30:58 And something that Steven had always said was that he would

31:01 never walk along the road. He, they would cut through

31:04 paddocks and stuff like that. That walking along the road like

31:08 that is just something he didn't, he didn't feel

31:09 comfortable doing 'cause he, he knew that.

31:12 The simple fact is this was, he was an openly gay man in a, in

31:16 an area that does not accept that.

31:19 Well, he is incredibly brave and I and I applaud him for being

31:24 just who he was. And many people did accept him.

31:27 But he knew that if he was walking along the side of the

31:30 road or something and like someone saw him, that it could

31:33 just be inviting trouble, you know, in that area, which just

31:36 sucks. It's in disgust.

31:37 That's a whole other issue. Yeah, but he always commented to

31:41 his sister and how they would always walk through the paddocks

31:43 and stuff like that rather than walking along the side of the

31:46 road. Sure.

31:47 The other thing his mum said is that she thought that if he had

31:51 actually run out of petrol and this was legit, he probably

31:56 would have slept in his car and waited until morning because he

32:00 he for that, for that. Reason as well.

32:02 So they're both saying that him walking along the road just.

32:05 Isn't. What he would do, but not only

32:07 that, he was found in the middle of the road, right?

32:10 So he certainly wouldn't walk in the middle of the road.

32:13 There's so many other issues as well.

32:15 So if things happen the way the police alleged they happened, if

32:20 he got hit by the rearview mirror of a truck, yes.

32:25 And when I say truck, I don't mean pickup truck, I mean a semi

32:27 trailer. Yeah.

32:30 They there's no way he would have been thrown to the middle

32:34 of the road. He might have been thrown away

32:35 from the road. Because he was literally in the

32:37 middle yeah, of the road when he was found.

32:39 Yeah. The other thing that they say is

32:41 if you're ever hit by a vehicle, your shoes almost always come

32:46 off. It's like a something to yeah,

32:48 the friction and of like your feet on the ground and then your

32:52 the rest of your body being thrown forward.

32:54 Yeah, your feet literally just come out of your shoes.

32:55 Yes, his shoes were on so loosely, yeah, that they would

32:59 have definitely come off. He's if you think about the

33:04 impact of a truck hitting you hard enough to kill you, don't

33:09 you think him? And he felt the the mobile phone

33:12 was under his body. So he's fallen and he's onto his

33:16 mobile phone. Kind of, yeah.

33:17 Under his bum sort of area that, yeah.

33:19 Don't you think that would have shattered?

33:21 There's 0 nothing wrong with his phone, no damage, no, but

33:24 there's no also no injuries sort of lower body either really.

33:28 We're talking upper body damage. So that sort of it isn't really

33:32 consistent with that kind of accident either and being thrown

33:36 that he would have something lower body.

33:38 Yeah. But there was also no debris

33:41 from any vehicle in the area. So they scoured that area for

33:45 vehicle, you know, indications of a vehicle.

33:47 So they could basically go if this is a hit and run, we're

33:48 going to find out who who was driving that vehicle.

33:52 There was none. And they also said that they

33:54 tested his clothes for microscopic paint.

33:57 So like Hardy? Glass bits and things like that

33:59 to be found like because if he's hit a mirror, something would

34:02 have you know, glass could have shattered anything could have

34:06 like, you know like there's there was 0 debris from the

34:09 vehicle on the ground or found to be on him.

34:11 Yeah in any way. Yep, yeah.

34:15 It's really interesting the FBI did get involved eventually,

34:20 because basically the case went cold.

34:22 Yeah, very, very quickly. A.

34:24 Particular police officer who really looked at this

34:27 thoroughly. He was, I want to say his name

34:29 is Michael Smith. I might be wrong.

34:31 I don't remember. I can't.

34:32 I feel like that was right. I should have written it down.

34:34 I don't know why I didn't. He was, you know, this guy, he

34:37 was a local cop who was looking into it.

34:39 He got really deep in it and was, he knew this, just none of

34:44 this added up. He followed every aspect and

34:46 every lead of this. Now what's interesting about him

34:49 doing that was that the more and more he looked into this, the

34:53 more he felt like he was being followed and being surveilled,

34:57 particularly when he went into town near where the Murdoch's

35:04 lawful. Folks.

35:06 We get phone calls from them now.

35:08 The other thing that happened straight after this accident was

35:11 that Stevens family, his mom I believe it was answered the

35:16 phone received a phone call from Randall Murdoch saying that we

35:21 will represent you in this situation legally just offering

35:26 that his Gen. you know, free of charge.

35:28 We're going to what we will do that now, Randall Murdoch there

35:30 and the law firm that he was in, absolutely they would represent

35:33 people like this. But that family never reached

35:36 out to them. They had no connection.

35:38 They did not have any connection specifically to him.

35:40 Like why would why would they be getting that phone call from

35:42 him? Very interesting.

35:44 The other thing that Sandy says is that she received that phone

35:47 call before she knew or had found out from law enforcement

35:54 that there was potentially someone involved.

35:56 So like what I'm saying is they hadn't discussed the case with

36:00 her. Yeah.

36:01 So Randall, when he phoned her, yeah.

36:04 He knew more about her son's case, Yeah, than she even knew

36:08 yet. So this just goes to show the

36:11 influence that the Murdoch family and their law firm

36:15 obviously had over law enforcement.

36:19 Yeah, who's working? Who's working for who?

36:22 Yeah, there's definitely information passing through to

36:27 people that don't shouldn't really have that information at

36:30 this point in time. Like what?

36:31 What what do they got to do with this?

36:32 Yeah, that they have. Information.

36:34 I'm sorry, why are they getting information before the mother of

36:37 the victim? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:41 That happens a lot in this unfortunately.

36:43 Unfortunately. Yeah.

36:45 So there's a lot of bits and pieces with that, that this,

36:48 none of this adds up. Yeah.

36:51 And there's already some indications and that, you know,

36:53 like why is this sort of linking back to the Murdoch's?

36:56 Where is that? And so in this investigation,

37:00 this police officer found that a particular name just kept coming

37:04 up. So I believe the there were over

37:09 100 pages in discovery or about this case in the documentation.

37:15 And in those 100 pages, now I'm talking these are statements,

37:18 these are, you know, information that the police has collected.

37:21 And also this is when phone, when when members of the public

37:25 phone in with information about the case.

37:27 This all gets recorded, you know, in these documents 40

37:32 times the name Murdoch is comes up.

37:38 Yeah, in 100 pages worth of documentation, no one else's

37:43 name or no other name comes up more than once or twice.

37:47 Yeah. OK, so we're starting to get a

37:50 bit of an idea here. What's going on?

37:52 Why is the Murdoch name coming up?

37:55 And then the case kind of goes cold.

38:00 It wasn't until June of 2021, and that's significant because

38:05 of what happened around the same time and why this was opened,

38:10 why this case was kind of reinvestigated, which we will

38:14 absolutely get to in next week's episode.

38:17 Yeah. But this was reinvestigated in

38:19 2021 and it was looked at in a very different light because of

38:27 other things that have happened, which we are getting to.

38:29 Yeah. So the rumors were at this

38:33 point, and I guess the inference is that Buster Murdoch, so Alec

38:41 and Maggie's eldest son, the Golden Head child, the one who's

38:45 being set up to take over this family dynasty, was having a

38:50 relationship, a secret relationship with Stephen Smith.

38:55 Now, I can imagine in that family that would have been

38:58 absolutely unacceptable. It would have been just

39:05 humiliating to the family. It wouldn't have meant that he

39:08 could carry on the legacy that his father and grandfather and

39:12 great grandfather and great great grandfather had

39:15 established. And so I think what what's then

39:20 inferred or what the what ends up being investigated is the

39:24 fact that the Murdochs have found out about this

39:26 relationship and orchestrated the events that led to Stephen's

39:31 death. Yeah, yeah, I have thoughts on.

39:36 Go on please. So do I, but I'm so so curious.

39:39 Go tell me what I think. I mean, yeah, well, firstly,

39:43 with all this information that came to them about, you know,

39:46 these rumors and like there's a lot of like recordings of those,

39:50 those rumors, like people who've come forward and explain what

39:54 they know. Now, when in all of that though,

39:57 no one is first person. They're all saying, my friend

40:00 told me, my cousin knows so and so who told this story?

40:04 No one says I know, I know, I've seen them together.

40:08 I you know, there's no first hand weakness of this they're.

40:12 All fucking shit scared that the Murdochs are going to sue them.

40:15 Exactly. They sue people for looking at

40:18 them the wrong way. This is right.

40:19 So I mean, I find that interesting in itself, just the

40:23 fact of like, no one's willing to come up, come forward.

40:25 And I, I think that's fact. I think that's very like, I

40:30 understand why people do that. Oh, totally, yeah.

40:33 And I think it says a lot. I mean, some people you can look

40:35 at it in one way and kind of go, Oh, well, people are just, it's

40:38 just rumours then it's bullshit. But I, I think you've got a hot

40:41 it's weight in it because there's too many people that say

40:42 it. Yep, too many people have come

40:44 forward to, you know, and I've said the same stories kind of

40:48 thing that I just go nut. There's, there's, there's weight

40:50 in this. It's like, you know, where

40:52 there's smoke, there's fire, you know, it's like, and people have

40:55 very, very similar stories and very similar accounts and it's

40:59 like the world's worst kept secret.

41:01 Yes, exactly. Especially amongst the younger.

41:04 This is it. All younger people that were

41:05 coming forward this information, I feel like they were no one was

41:09 they're not. What do they got to gain by?

41:10 I mean, they shouldn't if they didn't really want anyone

41:12 linking them to it. They just don't say anything.

41:14 They're willing to come forward and say something and go go.

41:16 Well, I've heard something. I think that those two are

41:18 having a relationship. Like, I think there's more in

41:21 there is plenty in it now, but I think that Buster obviously has

41:26 a reputation to uphold, yes. And so in in many ways, in many

41:31 ways. So I do think that maybe he was

41:33 aware that these rumours were getting bigger and so he had to

41:37 do something to shut it down. Do you reckon there might have

41:40 been an instance or something where maybe Alec found them

41:43 together or no, I don't think so, I don't think.

41:45 It got even. I don't even think it got that

41:47 far. I don't think it would take even

41:48 that extent. Yep, it was just the fact that

41:50 there's people might be talking about something that might be

41:53 happening. I think what's happened, this is

41:56 my take on what I think happened.

41:58 Yep. Him, Buster and his mates were

42:01 going around playing baseball with people's letter boxes.

42:04 Yeah, which is evident. They know people were doing

42:07 that. I think they were doing that.

42:09 And I think that they have driven along and they have seen

42:12 Stephen in his car, in his car, like you say.

42:14 I think he was. He did run out of fuel and he

42:16 was in his car. They happened to have stumbled

42:18 across him and I think that then him, I think Buster and a couple

42:22 of his mates or whatever have pulled him out of the car and

42:25 it's gone too far because Buster's like basically taken

42:30 the frustrations of, you know, like what if I fight people find

42:33 out this I have to prove that I don't love him.

42:35 I don't have a relationship with him.

42:37 So I think he's got hit over the head with a baseball bat and

42:40 that's why the the injury across his face.

42:42 It is, it is in a line, something straight they say has

42:45 hit him across the face. Yeah, like a baseball bat kind

42:48 of thing. I think that aligns that he's

42:51 been hit with that. I think he has died from these

42:54 injuries, from this brawl. I then think they have dumped

42:57 the body on the road and staged it the way it is.

43:01 But I think this all just came down from like, you know,

43:04 wankers who think they're above the law.

43:07 Who and Buster covering his tracks of a relationship.

43:11 Do you think any of the older, the next generation up of

43:17 Murdoch's had anything to do with the staging of the body or

43:21 the cover up? I think quite possible.

43:23 I think he's obviously as they do.

43:24 I think he's immediately got on the phone when this has happened

43:26 or whatever and go on shit, what do I do?

43:29 Yeah. And I do think then others have

43:30 got involved to. Protect him?

43:31 I think so too. And I think that then allegedly

43:34 I, I just, I don't, I don't see a story where Alec and the rest

43:44 of them. But they don't go to Alec so.

43:46 No, they go to they go to they. Go to They go to their uncles.

43:49 And their and their grandfather. And their grandfather, they

43:50 don't really go to Alec. So I, I think it might have not

43:54 even been Alec. Who knew.

43:57 Yes, necessarily, this is it. I dealt with it necessarily.

44:00 But then Alec also had enough offsiders that they could have

44:02 called to sort of help them. Like as in who the boys could

44:05 have called to help them out as well.

44:06 Exactly. Yes, Yeah.

44:09 So I do. I feel like it hadn't got to the

44:11 extent of like the extended family orchestrating this to the

44:14 point of like the actual killing.

44:15 I think that's happened in AI. Don't know rage fueled

44:20 dickheads. Just go with blankets.

44:22 Drinking beer, you know, doing this and they've stumbled across

44:24 him and this is what's happened. And then it's gone way too.

44:29 Far He was such a gorgeous young man, wasn't he?

44:32 Oh my God. He just seemed like the life of

44:34 the party kind of right. Really great fun, lovely guy.

44:39 Fun. He was a twin.

44:41 His sister's just devastated, of course, but to be a twin, you

44:45 know, he was a nursing. Student, he had these goals of

44:48 like, yeah, you know, Jesus, it breaks my heart what he was like

44:51 hoping to do and go overseas and things and help children and

44:54 yeah. He wanted to work in remote

44:55 communities and yeah, help people, yes.

44:58 Help people. And so the world missed out on

45:00 that because of these fucking motherfuckers.

45:02 Although no one's been convicted of any of this, you know, So

45:05 this is all allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

45:09 Yeah, that's my take on what happened.

45:11 That's what I think's happening. And I honestly think that from

45:14 listening to particularly that police officer I was talking to,

45:17 talking about he, he very much, I think he believes that too.

45:21 He doesn't he typical police officer kind of thing.

45:24 He doesn't layout what he thinks happened, but he infers things

45:28 of what what is his investigation has taken him to.

45:32 And I think that that's what I honestly think that's what's

45:34 happened here. And Buster knows what happened

45:37 and so do many others in the Murdoch family know what

45:39 happened. And I do think there are some

45:41 other outside. I think there's some other kids

45:43 who know what happened on. That oh definitely I fully agree

45:45 with yeah, I. Definitely shut up and paid off

45:47 or whatever. I really do believe that.

45:49 Yeah, same. Yeah.

45:51 I mean, they were just as implicit.

45:52 So it's, you know, of course they want to keep quiet as well

45:55 because, yeah, they were involved.

45:57 Yeah, and that's the thing they've they hold it over them

46:00 of like, you know, I mean, I could honestly say I reckon if

46:03 anyone of them wanted to talk, they go to police officers and

46:05 they would probably get a bit more of a slap on the wrist sort

46:08 of situation, like get less of a.

46:10 Well, they could, probably. Come up with a deal, they would

46:12 come up with a deal. Want to be sorting this shit

46:14 out? That's right.

46:14 Something that was provable and known, yeah.

46:17 But they have definitely shut them up somehow, Which when we

46:21 get to other cases here of what's gone on, there's

46:23 precedent for this occurring that we know what happened.

46:26 You know, absolutely people have come forward and talked about,

46:28 Yep, I think the same thing happened.

46:30 With this, I think you're right. I I agree.

46:32 I fully fully agree. And it worked, this one.

46:35 It worked with Steven. Yes, yes it did.

46:38 But maybe didn't work so much. Well, it worked till now because

46:42 I think there's still a reward out.

46:44 Yes, a financial reward. I think it's not a lot though.

46:47 I feel like it's like. Maybe $50,000 like it's it's a

46:51 that's nothing. It's not enough to.

46:53 Talk at this point, no. Not with what?

46:55 Not with where their webs go like.

46:57 And I, I think they actually, there was a GoFundMe set up at

47:01 one point to exhume his body to, in order for the police to in

47:07 like that would then, you know, I guess mean that the police had

47:11 to then do a, another autopsy and look at the body again.

47:15 I actually don't know if that ever happened.

47:17 Do you know if that happened? Heard of that?

47:19 OK, no. I I, I my, my gut feeling

47:23 because I haven't read anything about it.

47:24 I feel like maybe that never came.

47:26 So I feel like that never eventually.

47:27 The next one, we're gonna talk. About yeah, it did, yeah, But

47:29 that was. Not that wasn't about Steven.

47:32 No, no. Yeah, OK.

47:34 Let's get to the next one. Yeah.

47:36 OK, so the next victim of this family, she was a woman by the

47:43 name of Gloria Satterfield. Now, Gloria was the Murdoch's

47:48 housekeeper and nanny for over 20 years.

47:55 Her son. So she had two sons of her own

48:00 and she was a widow, I believe. A widow, Yeah, Yeah.

48:03 And. She raised her boys on her own.

48:04 Yeah, she raised the boys on her own and worked for the Murdochs

48:07 throughout their entire sort of childhood.

48:10 And yeah. Lesson well she actually works

48:11 for them and for some other families as well because she she

48:14 needed income for to raise her boys on her own like that that

48:18 she worked her asshole she was. Such a hard worker.

48:20 Yeah, such a hard worker. Her son Tony says that he loved

48:25 the Murdoch's, that he really felt welcomed by them and

48:28 included by them. And her sister, she had a sister

48:33 named Ginger, who is actually very outspoken.

48:37 And if I know if you want to look up a lot more about Gloria,

48:41 you can. And most of the family

48:44 spokesmanship comes through Ginger.

48:46 Yeah. Gloria also.

48:48 Gloria also had two brothers, but they just kind of sit in the

48:51 background while Ginger kind of, you know, gives their opinion or

48:55 gives their opinion to everyone. Oh, hi, everyone.

48:58 I actually really rate her because she's like a dog with a

49:00 bone. And she has not let any of this

49:02 go to her absolute credit. Yeah.

49:04 You know, I think Gloria's sons were too young to have to take

49:09 all of this on. And so she has really stepped up

49:12 for them and really advocated for Gloria.

49:15 Gloria in all of this. Yeah.

49:17 Amazing. Gloria loved tennis.

49:21 She was a an avid tennis player when she had, you know, the the

49:25 small amount of time off that she had.

49:27 Yeah. She loved the colour purple.

49:28 And yeah, as I said, she was, she was always up at the cracker

49:31 Dawn at her first job, finish that one off, go to the next

49:35 job. She would often, Maggie would

49:38 often ring Gloria and say, oh, I'm not gonna be able to cook

49:41 dinner tonight. Can you pop dinner on?

49:42 She'd go back, She'd get dinner ready for them.

49:45 Apparently she was an incredible cook.

49:47 Mac and cheese was her absolute specialty.

49:50 And the kids. Love, loved it.

49:52 The kids absolutely loved it. Yeah, I'd love a recipe because

49:56 sometimes I find Mac and cheese can be a little here.

49:58 Oh, I. Just find that we don't know how

49:59 to do that really here in Australia.

50:00 As grade I mean. I think the key is grating your

50:03 own cheese. You can't use pre grated cheese.

50:05 I've definitely pre grated cheese.

50:07 Disgusting. It's the powder.

50:08 Yeah, the powder in US No. So you need to grate your own

50:11 cheese, but I don't know. But anyway, so that was that was

50:15 her little her little claim to fame.

50:18 I Yeah, so the relationship between Paul and Gloria

50:23 especially apparently was very they were very bonded.

50:29 And as we were talking about a little bit earlier, she saw Paul

50:34 and all of his flaws, but she loved him anyway and she would

50:37 do anything for him. And he obviously felt very

50:40 supported by her because his Paul's ex-girlfriend says that

50:46 he had a photo of Gloria in his wallet of no one else, just a

50:51 little photo of. Gloria, it says a lot.

50:53 It says a. Lot it kind of kind of that

50:56 really, that almost endears him to me a little.

50:58 Bit that's about the only thing. That knows.

51:01 Oh, there's not. There's not anything else even.

51:03 Gloria bowed up that ex-girlfriend and said to her,

51:06 no, maybe date him, maybe move on.

51:10 He's not a good guy. Yeah, I love him, but yeah.

51:15 He's not a good partner. No.

51:16 Yeah, move on. And she was such a she was a

51:18 lovely girl. Totally.

51:20 And and in a lucky. Story.

51:22 We'll get my heart breaks for her too, God, but I just think

51:24 she was so she didn't know what she.

51:27 Didn't know I was a youngest girl.

51:28 Innocent. Yeah, absolutely.

51:30 And she didn't see things for what they were because that's

51:33 not how they were presented to her.

51:35 No. Yep.

51:35 Anyway, so this accident. Virgin commerce accident.

51:43 So the property, the property where the Murdochs lived was

51:46 called Mozel, Mozel, Mozel. I didn't do a really good job

51:49 here. I.

51:50 Suck at it though. Oh God it's not easy.

51:52 Do an accent. I feel like you were better at

51:53 the South African accent that we were talking about in our

51:56 Patreon. But anyway, so we're not going

52:02 to do any more accents we. Suck at it, that's fine.

52:08 We good at everything. Almost everything, which is not

52:11 absolutely everything. So the this accident in inverted

52:16 commas happened at the property at Mozel.

52:18 Yeah. Now the reason we are naming the

52:21 properties is because the Murdoch's also had so many

52:25 properties not just in South Carolina, but all around the

52:29 country. Yeah.

52:30 So on in February of 2018, A911 call comes through and you can

52:37 hear the recording of this literally anywhere.

52:40 Just Google it, you can hear it. A woman who is later than

52:44 identified as Maggie Murdoch reported that Gloria had fallen

52:51 back down 8 brick steps at the front of their home.

52:58 Now, apparently on this particular day, Gloria was going

53:02 over to Moselle to pick up her check her her pay.

53:06 And they weren't they didn't necessarily know.

53:10 They knew she was coming that day.

53:12 They didn't necessarily know when when Maggie rings 911.

53:18 Do you find that phone call really confusing?

53:21 Very because she doesn't actually So to me, right If I

53:25 was ringing 911 because anyone had fallen at my house.

53:28 Now, apparently Gloria there was bleeding.

53:31 She gave no really amazing information about the state of

53:35 Gloria. Nope.

53:36 The the operator asks is she conscious?

53:39 And she's like, yeah, maybe. And then she's like, oh, not

53:43 really. I'm like, you're either fucking

53:45 conscious or you're unconscious. I don't know that there's much

53:47 in between there. No, she gives no detail.

53:51 She's like, I think, I think she.

53:52 I think Maggie. No.

53:53 Then Paul gets on the phone. You.

53:55 Hear Paul like so. He's definitely.

53:57 There, He's definitely there. He gets on the phone, yeah.

54:00 And he says to the 911 operator, I think she's tripped on the

54:03 dogs now when and they basically the 911 operator's like, Yep,

54:08 we're sending somebody out there, we're sending AMS or

54:10 whatever out there, no. Panic in an ear?

54:12 No. Panic I.

54:14 Wouldn't say that. Like, yeah, she's.

54:15 Got. And then what Paul says is like,

54:17 she's bleeding out of her ear. Yes.

54:19 And that to me would be like, fuck in hell, fuck.

54:23 But he's like, oh, she's bleeding out of her ear.

54:25 And they're like, yeah, OK, well, we'll get someone over

54:27 there. Yeah.

54:29 There's not like. Will you hurry please?

54:31 Like nothing like that from like, from like this is where I

54:33 kind of go Like Paul was so connected with this woman, yet

54:37 he was very yes, like she's fallen.

54:41 No, you know, get help now. Oh my God, this is like someone

54:44 who means so much to me is injured and hurt and could.

54:47 Be even. It doesn't even doesn't matter

54:48 if they mean something. No, no, at your house has blood

54:52 coming out of their ear and from the back of the head.

54:54 Yeah, but he's a cold person, I think in many ways, but I just

54:57 kind of this is particularly a person that I thought he might

54:59 have that that's so true thought that thought about and that's

55:02 and he doesn't. And I'm like, oh God, this makes

55:04 really worse with him. When the EMS get there, and I

55:09 believe law enforcement also went on the scene, what they

55:13 find is Gloria's body on the stairs.

55:16 Still, her legs are up. Yeah, on a on like the highest.

55:20 Step or something further and she's her.

55:22 Her head's on the ground like her body's on the ground.

55:24 Yeah. It looks like they have not

55:26 really made an attempt at first aid, which again, I also find

55:30 interesting. Like why wasn't the 911 operator

55:32 telling them to provide first aid?

55:34 Yeah, yeah. I assume that's they do that in

55:37 America. I would have assumed so.

55:39 Yeah, so that I find really odd as well, like.

55:42 But then I listen to the and I'm like, maybe the severity did

55:45 what happened didn't really get over because the 911 operator

55:48 does say to Paul when he's on the phone, has she ever had a

55:52 stroke? And he goes, I don't know why

55:54 you're asking me all these questions.

55:56 Just get somebody here. And she's like, I've got someone

55:58 on the way. I need to ask these questions.

56:01 And he never answers. I think, he says.

56:03 I don't think she's ever had a stroke.

56:05 But then they need to know more information that is then not

56:07 forthcoming. No, but that's where I get

56:10 though I think that they didn't know stuff about her as much as

56:12 they had a relationship with her.

56:13 Well. They, they don't know her.

56:16 Yeah. The operator asks Maggie how old

56:17 is she? And she goes, oh, I don't, I

56:18 don't know. I guess she's about 50

56:21 something. Yeah.

56:22 And I thought, well, for someone who you're so close with and

56:25 that there is a lot of information to make, you know

56:27 that. Yeah.

56:27 That she raised your children, you know, basically and all

56:29 these things that I got two years.

56:31 Wow. You've known and think even

56:33 Alec, in one interview I heard of him saying they asked him how

56:36 long had she been working with you?

56:37 And he kind of did the whole or guess it'd be maybe around 20

56:42 years. He couldn't even not pinpoint

56:44 how long she'd worked there, which I find that interesting of

56:48 someone who he employs people like he's got, you know, a big

56:50 law firm, like kind of thing. I don't know, someone like that.

56:53 You know how long they've been working with you for 'cause

56:55 you'd be like, well, we nearly came up for 20 years, Gloria, we

56:57 should do something special. You've been with us for so long.

56:59 I don't know, like, wouldn't you?

57:00 Definitely. Yeah, actually.

57:02 Because like in that in that setting, that's a quite an

57:06 intimate, you know, she's picking up their underwear off

57:09 the. Floor I mean and wouldn't you

57:10 know if she's raised your kids like that you know well Paul was

57:13 2 when she came on that's right you know what I mean at this age

57:16 yes. So therefore she is, she's been

57:18 with us that. Long, but no, they didn't care

57:19 enough to. No.

57:20 To think about. It they didn't think other

57:22 people like that and themselves. It was all very self-centered.

57:25 I feel like as much as yeah, oh, they're just interesting fucking

57:29 people, really interesting. So.

57:30 Interesting. So at this point, Gloria is in a

57:33 really critical condition and she is, I believe they airlift

57:36 her to a hospital in a nearby town because I think in, in

57:41 Hampton County there's no like ternary hospitals or anything

57:45 like that. So they've, they've airlifted

57:47 her to the next, the closest facility, I think it was in

57:50 Georgia or something anyway. And she was in hospital for two

57:57 weeks. And the decision was eventually

57:59 made by her two sons to stop her life support.

58:03 Her injuries and her subsequent like the brain injury meant that

58:09 you know her, her state was incompatible with life ongoing

58:13 so. But her death certificate says

58:17 she died of natural causes. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't

58:20 it? What's that?

58:21 Well, I don't know that falling down the stairs is a natural

58:23 cause, No. Because what they said is

58:25 basically in hospital, she then had like a heart attack, yes.

58:29 And then so I've heard some people sort of say, well, OK,

58:32 maybe if she died, even dying from a heart attack is not

58:35 natural causes. But are there natural causes

58:41 like after effects that that's why it?

58:43 Looks I can understand like maybe if she'd had a stroke and

58:46 fallen due to the stroke. OK, but then you still need to

58:50 do a brain scan to confirm that she I guess.

58:53 But then wouldn't she have died of stroke?

58:54 Not. Yeah, that's true.

58:56 Yeah, that's true. So what?

58:58 What happens, though, when you put natural causes on a death

59:01 certificate is there's no. Autopsy and no.

59:04 Investigation. It never gets flagged with the

59:05 coroner and there's no further investigation.

59:09 Nothing to see here people. Don't you think that's really

59:12 interesting? Well.

59:13 Because the other very interesting thing is that then

59:15 Alec is in interviewed at a point in all of this.

59:18 Yeah, because he says she fell down the stairs and that he

59:22 spoke to because no one, no one, they say, oh, they all say they

59:25 didn't witness her fall down the stairs.

59:27 No. No one claimed.

59:28 They all claimed they were inside and they didn't see what

59:29 happened outside. They came out and found her,

59:31 right? But in an interview, Alex says

59:34 he spoke to her as they were putting her into the ambulance.

59:38 Yes. Now the paramedics that were on

59:41 the scene and all those sorts of people say Alec wasn't even

59:45 there. He wasn't there.

59:47 She also wasn't verbal. Apparently she was like like

59:51 making noises but she. Wasn't communicating sense of

59:55 what you know, wouldn't make sense of what she said or

59:56 anything. But he claimed that she told him

59:59 that the dogs had tripped him up.

1:00:00 Tripped her up. He wasn't even there.

1:00:01 He. Wasn't even there.

1:00:03 Interesting. The other interesting thing is

1:00:07 that one month before Gloria died, Yep, Alex took out Alec.

1:00:13 Sorry, fuck him, but Alec took out an insurance policy on

1:00:18 Moselle. Yeah, commercial insurance

1:00:20 policy. Yep, to the tune of I think it

1:00:23 was $5 million. 4 point something, I think it was 4.3 or

1:00:28 something or 4.6 something like that, yeah.

1:00:30 Oh, no, it's 4.3. I've got it written down.

1:00:32 Yeah, $4.3 million. Yeah.

1:00:34 OK. When?

1:00:36 After Gloria died, pretty much at the funeral.

1:00:39 I believe it was. I believe it was at the funeral

1:00:42 Alec approached her two sons who were I think 1 was 21, was 18.

1:00:47 Yeah, 18 and 20 I think. At the time, at the top of my

1:00:48 head, yeah. Something around that, yeah.

1:00:50 Something around that? Yeah.

1:00:52 Not older, not young, like, yeah, but in that bracket of

1:00:55 like old enough to, yeah, manage this, but in the same time too

1:01:00 young to know how to do it on their own.

1:01:02 Yeah, that makes sense. Oh.

1:01:03 Totally. Yeah.

1:01:04 So he grows up to them and he says we really want to look

1:01:08 after you. We're so sorry this happened.

1:01:11 What I'm gonna do, I'm gonna give you a lawyer.

1:01:14 I'm gonna put you in touch with a lawyer, and I want you to sue

1:01:17 my homeowner's insurance. And so the boy's like, oh, no,

1:01:21 no, Mr. Murdoch, no, we would never do that.

1:01:23 And he goes, no, no, you need to be taken care of.

1:01:26 I insist that you need to do this.

1:01:29 I will provide. I will put you in touch with a

1:01:31 really good lawyer, and we'll go from there.

1:01:35 So the boys do that. They are put in contact with a

1:01:41 lawyer. Was this lawyer impartial?

1:01:43 Meg Let. Me.

1:01:45 Think about that. No fucking way.

1:01:47 No, he was. Randolph's best friend.

1:01:50 So Alex Brothers best friend and college roommate I believe.

1:01:56 OK. They're good old boys.

1:01:58 They're good old boys. So what happened?

1:02:02 This guy was named Corey Fleming.

1:02:04 That's right. So they go down the path this

1:02:09 now by the way, this took fucking years as well.

1:02:12 They were fucking around back and forth.

1:02:15 I think they were trying to, well, they were clearly trying

1:02:18 to pull the wool over the young. Boys, I don't know if the actual

1:02:21 process of it happening Tookie is, I think that happened very

1:02:24 easily, yes. And but the boys, glorious boys,

1:02:27 were just not informed of it here.

1:02:29 They were informed though. They were just informed the

1:02:31 wrong thing. They were like, oh, they.

1:02:33 Were doing bits and pieces when they wanted them.

1:02:35 To It'll be another four months. We've got another hearing.

1:02:38 Yeah, but you don't have to be there.

1:02:39 Don't worry, we'll take care of. All the we'll take care of you

1:02:41 guys don't need to worry about this.

1:02:42 You don't need to worry at all. No, what eventuates is that the

1:02:49 So Corey and Alex, Yeah, sued Alex's home insurance, This

1:02:54 commercial insurance, Yeah, for the full $4.3 million.

1:02:57 But they had told the boys, right, the two sons, that the

1:03:01 settlement, it'll be, it'll take care of you guys because we'll

1:03:04 probably got to get about $500,000, exactly 500,000.

1:03:08 That's what they were sort of thinking, that this is a

1:03:10 ballpark figure that boys were expecting to get out of it.

1:03:12 Yeah. Which they were like very, very

1:03:15 happy to receive if that's what this would happen.

1:03:17 Yeah, out of this, that they would receive that money that

1:03:19 would really help them out. Yep.

1:03:21 And that's a lot of money. Yeah, Nah, Nah.

1:03:24 Turns out for three, $3,000,000, Alex and Fleming stole the

1:03:33 entire amount. Mm Hmm.

1:03:35 The boys have never, never received anything.

1:03:37 A cent, not a cent. No, and it wasn't until later

1:03:43 events that occur, which we'll get to next week, that that gets

1:03:47 flagged with them. Yeah, that that they didn't even

1:03:49 know. They had no idea.

1:03:52 What a sack of shit. What of?

1:03:54 Both of. Them.

1:03:55 Oh, all of them. Like all of them.

1:03:57 Like it's. Just what a fucking piece of

1:03:59 shit. Yep.

1:04:01 Yeah, what? A what Fucking.

1:04:03 Piece and as I mean one guy comes at him again, we'll get

1:04:05 into it more next week, but he is 1 particular police officer.

1:04:08 I think it was an FBI agent sort of said well this kind of been

1:04:11 the first one because you don't start these things with a $4.3

1:04:15 million job. So how much of people's money

1:04:19 did these sacks of shit steal? I believe it is untold.

1:04:26 Yeah. As in, I think, I mean, skipping

1:04:30 ahead here, but I think it's pretty fucking obvious.

1:04:33 All this shit catches up to Alec eventually.

1:04:36 And his financial crimes alone, he was jailed for 40 years.

1:04:42 That's on his financial crimes alone, let alone all the other

1:04:45 things that we're yet to talk about.

1:04:47 And part of that 40 years was this fraud against glorious sons

1:04:53 Brian and Tony. What a fucking asshole.

1:04:59 He is just awful. But, and The thing is, OK, so

1:05:03 this one here with Gloria, there's the financial shit of

1:05:07 this, which that I mean, OK, there's one way of looking at

1:05:10 this that Gloria had an accident and Alex has taken advantage of

1:05:14 that. Or did Gloria know too much?

1:05:18 Gloria knows something that he didn't want her to know or you

1:05:21 know, and did he take out that life, that insurance, that that

1:05:26 commercial insurance policy, knowing what he was planning on

1:05:30 doing? So did.

1:05:31 He Yeah. What?

1:05:31 What came first? Yeah, My gut feeling, I think

1:05:34 the timing of the insurance, the insurance policy being taken out

1:05:43 might be a bit of a red herring. The reason I say that is because

1:05:47 he wasn't present when she fell. So I don't know how he could

1:05:51 have orchestrated that. I I don't know.

1:05:54 Yeah, right. I think, I think he's taken

1:05:57 advantage of a very awful situation.

1:06:00 So do you think she genuinely felt?

1:06:02 I don't. I don't actually know.

1:06:04 I don't, I don't know I would. I can't imagine Maggie would

1:06:11 have done anything. No, but I can certainly say

1:06:14 think Paul would, but. What would his motivation have

1:06:16 been or do you think on advice of his father?

1:06:20 No, because I don't think they had that kind of relationship.

1:06:22 Very same. I honestly believe that.

1:06:27 Well, we know. What we do know is that Gloria

1:06:30 knew about Alex drug taking. Yes, she'd found a stash there.

1:06:36 We know that Paul knew. Well, Gloria had told Paul,

1:06:40 yeah. So Gloria and Paul knew this

1:06:42 information about their dad. I, I do think that what's

1:06:47 happened that morning is Gloria has maybe said, well, Paul, if

1:06:51 you're not going to speak to your mom about this, like

1:06:52 Maggie's there, say, and I'm going to tell your mom and you

1:06:56 know, we need to get help for your dad or, you know, all the,

1:06:59 I think this has been what the conversation is.

1:07:01 And I think that what's happened is Paul's got, I don't think

1:07:06 he's gone. I'm going to kill her, but I

1:07:08 think it's got gotten out of hand and I do think that she's

1:07:11 fallen down the stairs with an assistance of a fall.

1:07:13 Like I think there's been a push or something's gone in that that

1:07:17 argument somehow. So yeah, I think there's more

1:07:21 involvement there. OK, I, I, I can see that being a

1:07:25 situation. My challenge to that is, though,

1:07:29 what do you why do you think Paul wouldn't have wanted Maggie

1:07:33 to know? Because I think she knew she

1:07:35 knew he was an opioid abuser. I think that I think that's

1:07:39 absolutely part of it in that they they knew these things,

1:07:43 they just didn't want other people knowing these things.

1:07:45 OK. And so I so.

1:07:46 You're saying Gloria knew too much and Paul was trying to

1:07:49 protect, so it was almost like an untold, an unspoken thing

1:07:55 within the family. Yeah, this drug, I think we

1:07:57 don't talk about this shit. Why are you talking about it?

1:07:59 Why are you bringing it up? I think that's the kind of

1:08:01 attitude you have to it. OK.

1:08:03 I think that he would have been like, stop talking about it,

1:08:05 sharp about it, you know, what's it to you being nasty to her and

1:08:09 said, you know, I think that he would have just been in a foul

1:08:12 mood. I think, you know, kind of shit.

1:08:13 I don't. Really weird that she took it to

1:08:15 him. I do too.

1:08:17 I do too. So what What Gloria found, she

1:08:19 was making a bed one day, and she found a massive bag of

1:08:24 opioid pills taped under the bed frame.

1:08:28 Yeah, and that's what she disclosed to Paul that she'd

1:08:31 found. She didn't tell Maggie.

1:08:32 Because The thing is. He was supposedly her.

1:08:34 Friend, The thing is, I don't. Absolutely.

1:08:37 Alec was a drug taker, yes, right, abuser, abuser.

1:08:40 But I think there's more to it in the drug self.

1:08:44 OK. I do think there was connections

1:08:46 there with other people like dealers, etcetera.

1:08:49 Yes, that there was definitely. So there was.

1:08:51 I think there was the element of Alec taking the drugs which

1:08:54 wasn't acceptable and knowledge for people to know, Sure.

1:08:57 But I do think there was more illegal shit connected to that,

1:09:00 right. That that was the worst stuff.

1:09:02 That was the stuff that maybe was the stuff they really more

1:09:05 likely didn't want being known. OK, Yep.

1:09:09 Does that. Yeah.

1:09:10 No, I I get that. I think we'll talk more about

1:09:12 that in next week's episode. Yeah.

1:09:14 You can give us your full theory then.

1:09:15 Yeah, so I don't. Think if I have a full

1:09:19 constructed 1 yet. Oh, I know, because there's so

1:09:22 much. We don't know what we don't know

1:09:25 either. And this family has done a

1:09:26 really, really great job at hiding a lot of shit.

1:09:30 Oh, there's so much you can do when you have money.

1:09:31 Yeah, so many people you can buy out.

1:09:33 Power. Yeah, power is incredible.

1:09:36 Their power was so far reaching. Yeah.

1:09:39 And well, again, actually in the next person we're talking about,

1:09:42 the power of this family is really.

1:09:44 Evident. It becomes really evident in

1:09:45 this, this one, I think because so many people were willing to

1:09:48 come out and talk, you know, and, and voice what happened to

1:09:51 you and because a lot of it's on body Cam footage and things.

1:09:54 Too. Yeah, that's true.

1:09:55 Discovered. Yeah, just really quickly before

1:09:57 we finish up with Gloria's story.

1:10:00 Yeah, her family, in the wake of her death, set up a Gloria's

1:10:04 Gifts Foundation. Lovely.

1:10:06 And they give Christmas presents to needy kids and they wanted to

1:10:10 make sure that her name was associated with kind and lovely

1:10:14 things, which is what she was in life and not associated with the

1:10:18 Murdoch name at all. So that's why they they set that

1:10:20 up. Yeah, yeah.

1:10:23 Yeah, what a what a it. Sucks that, you know, yeah,

1:10:27 there's they've great things that come out of these shitty

1:10:29 situations, but it sucks we have to be there.

1:10:31 Yeah, at this point for that to happen.

1:10:34 Now this next victim of the Murdoch family is.

1:10:38 This whole story is a big one. This one kind of is the catalyst

1:10:42 I reckon, for this coming out publicly to be honest. 100% I

1:10:46 think if this hadn't happened we would.

1:10:49 We wouldn't even know who the fuck they were.

1:10:50 We wouldn't know who Gloria Satterfield was.

1:10:52 We didn't know who Stephen Smith was, like, you know, at all.

1:10:54 But like, because from this case, literally after this, 19

1:11:00 lawsuits get filed against the Murdochs.

1:11:03 Yeah, from this point, yeah. So this just blows everything.

1:11:07 Up and we're not even talking like little civil cases.

1:11:10 No, I'm talking massive things. Massive.

1:11:11 Things, yeah. 19 massive lawsuits, yeah.

1:11:15 Yeah. OK, so the next victim we're

1:11:18 talking about is Mallory Beach. Now Mallory was a friend of Paul

1:11:26 Murdoch's. Now there was kind of like a

1:11:29 three couples who would hang around.

1:11:31 Now Paul and Morgan were on again.

1:11:33 Off again. For four years.

1:11:35 Yeah, for four years. They've been together a while.

1:11:38 Yeah, Anthony and Mallory were like young childhood

1:11:44 sweethearts. I think they'd known each other

1:11:46 for a very long time. Hadn't been together that.

1:11:48 No, they hadn't. And this is like they, they'd

1:11:50 been, yeah, friends for so long. Family friends, Yeah, but only

1:11:56 in the most of the last 12 months each or something.

1:11:58 OK. They'd, they'd had a moment

1:12:00 where they were like, no, actually, I think it was.

1:12:02 He came out and sort of said, no, I really, really like you.

1:12:05 And she reciprocated. And they decided, yes, that we

1:12:07 want to date. To date, like, you know, Yeah.

1:12:10 I really rate him in the documentary.

1:12:12 So do you think he's? So lovely.

1:12:13 Beautiful. He's such a lovely boy.

1:12:15 And so mad. She was such a lovely girl.

1:12:18 Gorgeous, I mean. Yeah, just really, they really

1:12:21 suited one another. Yeah.

1:12:22 Just really love, you know, young love.

1:12:24 Genuinely, like people who knew them and everything had

1:12:27 commented how they were like the couple.

1:12:29 Yeah, They were gonna be. They were gonna be together.

1:12:31 Yeah. And I mean, I think to this day,

1:12:33 he's single. Yeah.

1:12:34 He just has no interest in meeting anyone I don't think

1:12:37 after losing her which I hope he can move forward and have a life

1:12:40 but and I know like she would want that for him but.

1:12:42 Definitely. I mean this when you think about

1:12:44 it, this only happened in 20/19. It was 7, what, 6-7 years ago?

1:12:48 Yeah. I just, I don't know, I you'd

1:12:53 never get over. It no, no.

1:12:55 So and then the other couple were, again, I don't know that

1:12:58 these two were necessarily together at the time, but there

1:13:01 was Connor and Miley. They are now together.

1:13:04 Oh yeah, they were. Together.

1:13:05 Then they were together then, OK, yeah, they're still

1:13:07 together. Well, when the documentary was

1:13:09 filmed anyway, they were still together.

1:13:11 Yeah, so Miley and Armour and sorry, Miley and Mallory were

1:13:16 best friends and had been since they were small children.

1:13:19 Charlie Glue to each other's pretty much since kindergarten,

1:13:21 I think. Yeah, Genuine, like besties.

1:13:24 Yes. And then Morgan had arrived in

1:13:26 the town later, so she had moved.

1:13:29 She'd moved into the the area and gone to their school and

1:13:32 they'd met each other. Yes.

1:13:34 So I think Paul and Anthony were best friends.

1:13:36 Yes, and. Connor and Anthony were cousins.

1:13:38 Yes, our cousins. And so Morgan kind of started

1:13:43 dating Paul and kind of got into this.

1:13:45 This group. This group.

1:13:46 That's exactly right. Yeah.

1:13:48 The three M names. Oh my God.

1:13:50 So we've got Mallory, Morgan and Miley.

1:13:52 And when I, when I go to say their names, I've had to

1:13:56 actually like highlight the names.

1:13:57 And I'm like, this is the one that did this.

1:13:59 This is the one that did that. Yes.

1:14:01 All very attractive, gorgeous young people.

1:14:04 Maybe not all of them. Just thinking Paul don't get

1:14:08 that. And then I don't get that either

1:14:09 because Morgan is gorgeous. Just do you know who she reminds

1:14:13 me of? Who?

1:14:14 Shirley Woodley. Oh yeah.

1:14:16 Oh yeah. Eventually, because I've left

1:14:18 the room for a minute right when I was watching some of the doco

1:14:21 and I left the room and went and I could hear it from the other

1:14:24 room and I'm going why is Shelly Woodley on my screen?

1:14:27 Like what? What?

1:14:28 And then I walked back in and went, no, yeah, she sounds like

1:14:30 her. And even just demeanor she just

1:14:33 if they ever do a movie like. She's your gal.

1:14:36 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they did do.

1:14:39 A Well, the house, yeah, yeah, that's.

1:14:41 Patricia Arquette played. Maggie.

1:14:44 Maggie. Yeah, I do love Patricia.

1:14:46 Arquette. I do in that she's like so not

1:14:50 attractive, like kind of like she's she.

1:14:52 Plays it well. She does.

1:14:53 She does. Plays it very.

1:14:55 Very well, yeah. Although look, if you, I mean,

1:14:58 it's, it's very entertaining. If you want to go and watch it,

1:15:01 it's not. I think they leave out some

1:15:04 really key details. But I also understand my issues

1:15:07 are fine with it. Though, Yeah, definitely I.

1:15:08 Didn't want to watch it for this again because I'm like, it's not

1:15:10 factual. It's not factual enough to like,

1:15:12 actually. Yeah, I'm getting from quite a

1:15:14 while ago. Yeah.

1:15:14 It's it's worth a watch. Yeah.

1:15:16 It's it's entertaining. Yes.

1:15:17 Yeah. So basically on the night of the

1:15:20 23rd of February, so this the tragedy happened after midnight.

1:15:26 So it's reported as the 24th, but on the night of the 23rd in

1:15:29 2019, these 6 underage. And when we say underage, we're

1:15:33 talking under 21. Yeah, the legal age of drinking.

1:15:37 These six friends are hanging out together.

1:15:40 Well, they're heading off to a an oyster roast.

1:15:43 Yes. Now did you have to look up what

1:15:44 an oyster? Roast I most certainly did,

1:15:45 because in my, I mean, you know me, I don't really eat oysters.

1:15:48 Fucking love oysters. Love an oyster when my family do

1:15:51 love oysters and I was like yeah cook em do you like?

1:15:55 Oh, so to me the thought of a cooked oyster makes me want to

1:15:59 vomit. Because even I had to ask my

1:16:00 brothers about this because like, OK, so there's Kilpatrick

1:16:04 oysters Kilpatrick, which they are warmed, heated.

1:16:07 They're not warmed warmed. They're not even like I was

1:16:10 saying to them like they're not cooked.

1:16:11 They're not either. They're like, no, no, you don't

1:16:13 cook them. No, no.

1:16:13 And I'm like, right. Because in my mind I'm like,

1:16:15 they're kind of warm. Like no, they're just warmed.

1:16:18 They're not cooked. Even so, that's I'm like, we're

1:16:20 still not at a roast. So what I saw is they basically

1:16:24 catch. One then like 'cause I can't eat

1:16:26 them raw. Oh but I just feel like they'd

1:16:28 be robbery. So.

1:16:31 So they tip. They basically BBQ shelled

1:16:34 oysters so they have to. They would have.

1:16:36 Been girl UPS stuck over them and like so yeah, steam Steam I

1:16:40 don't even. Know it just to me.

1:16:42 Can you imagine the smell? Well, that guys, for those of

1:16:47 you not watching on YouTube, that was a genuine A genuine

1:16:51 gag. Her eyes are watering now.

1:17:02 OK, let's not talk about the smell of oysters anymore, OK?

1:17:06 I'm sorry. I'm really sorry I did that to

1:17:08 you, but Oh my God. So anyway, these kids have

1:17:11 decided to go to this oyster roast.

1:17:12 Now, they a couple of things. First thing is they had heard

1:17:17 because these oyster roasts attract a lot of young people in

1:17:21 the county, they often police will be out and about doing

1:17:26 roadside checks and sobriety tests and that kind of thing.

1:17:30 Yeah, they so they decided to actually go via boat.

1:17:35 So Paul's dad, Alec, had a boat. Now when I say boat, it's more

1:17:40 like it's bigger than a dinghy, but it's not massive.

1:17:44 Like the six people barely fit on it.

1:17:47 It was a runabout, kind of, yeah.

1:17:49 It was for the little canals. Yeah, around South Carolina,

1:17:53 Yeah, around Hampton County. And before they got on the boat,

1:17:58 though. Oh, actually, yes, it was before

1:18:01 they got on the boat they decided to go to.

1:18:03 What's the name of the shop? I've.

1:18:04 Just oh, that we've forgotten it without buying booze.

1:18:06 Where they were buying booze, Yeah.

1:18:08 Anyway, they went to the shop. Begins with an RI.

1:18:10 Just can't remember the name of it off the top of my head.

1:18:12 It doesn't, it doesn't really matter, but they, it comes into

1:18:17 play a little bit later. Yeah, they Paul goes in and he's

1:18:21 got his brother Buster's ID cause Buster is over 21.

1:18:25 And they do look alike. They do look similar, although

1:18:28 Buster's bigger, but you wouldn't be able to sell that on

1:18:31 ID. Photo.

1:18:32 Facebook ID Photo. He'd probably get away with it.

1:18:33 Pretty. I reckon he could.

1:18:34 Yeah, I, I, I agree. And then he also had his mum

1:18:37 Maggie's credit. Card.

1:18:38 Yeah, that's right. So he goes into the shop, buys

1:18:41 2-6 packs of beer. And you know, he had like slabs.

1:18:44 Oh, was it slabs? Yeah, I feel like though it was

1:18:46 more than well. Because but he lifts them up

1:18:48 like this, he does look. Up but I don't know they do like

1:18:51 big. I don't know how they sell them

1:18:52 in America because to me they felt like the cube packs of like

1:18:56 not 6. Packs, Yeah.

1:18:57 OK, so maybe it was more than a six.

1:18:58 Yeah, we sell him. Packs of beer that he was

1:19:01 carrying. Sell them, we always say.

1:19:02 We sell them in one per hour a day.

1:19:03 Like the 24 packs. I don't know what Americans sell

1:19:07 them in. Like I don't know whether they

1:19:08 sell them in dozen lots and stuff.

1:19:10 Or maybe maybe it was because I feel like otherwise how would

1:19:13 you lift them up? Because what we're saying is

1:19:15 after he's bought them, he's walking back to their truck and

1:19:18 he's like, yeah, I got him. Like, you know, because as you

1:19:21 would because you've just, you know, as a 19 year old bought

1:19:24 beer. So I find that fun as a 19 year

1:19:25 old I do. That's like what we do at 16.

1:19:27 Yeah, don't tell our children. Don't tell my mom.

1:19:33 I think she knows. No.

1:19:37 And if she doesn't? So basically, they've gotten on

1:19:44 the boat, they've had all their beers, and I think they were

1:19:48 drinking the beers on the way to these oyster roasts.

1:19:50 So Paul was driving the boat. It's his boat or his dad's boat.

1:19:54 Yeah. They get to the oyster roast and

1:19:56 they're there for quite some time.

1:19:58 And they were imbibing the entire time.

1:20:02 So apparently there were shots, there was beer, there were kegs,

1:20:04 there was spirits, and they were all really, really drunk.

1:20:09 Yeah. I think by the time it got to

1:20:13 the point where they're like a rat, it's kind of time to go.

1:20:15 It was about 1:00 in the morning.

1:20:17 Now, Connor and Anthony, I believe it was actually Anthony

1:20:23 suggested instead of driving the boat home because they were all

1:20:25 tanked, that maybe they should get an Uber.

1:20:29 Yeah. And Paul was like, no, I'm not

1:20:31 leaving my boat here. Yeah, we're going back on my

1:20:34 boat. It's fine.

1:20:34 I'm fine. I'll be able to do it anyway.

1:20:36 I want to go to this other bar up the river, up the Creek,

1:20:39 River, River. Yeah.

1:20:41 And. And they're all like, oh, oh,

1:20:43 no, we just kind of want to go home.

1:20:44 Like. Yeah, right.

1:20:45 So they all kind of reluctantly agree to go back in the boat.

1:20:49 This is where, like, I mean, before being in situations like

1:20:52 this as, you know, younger people doing things that are

1:20:55 silly, Yeah. I mean, this is, if this is

1:20:57 anything comes out of this, this is where I hope people hear this

1:21:01 story, young people and go, yeah, don't get in that vehicle,

1:21:04 whenever that vehicle. Is you should get in an Uber,

1:21:06 You should get in an Uber, Yeah. And you don't have enough money

1:21:09 to pay for that Uber. Call your mom or your dad or

1:21:12 your cousin or your sister or your mom's best friend.

1:21:16 Yeah, they will pay for renew before you.

1:21:18 Yeah, that or they'll come and. Pick up or they'll come and get

1:21:20 you. I would rather a 2:00 AM phone

1:21:22 call from my kid saying come get me and me managing that than

1:21:29 maybe getting a phone call from a hospital police officer

1:21:32 because something else has. Happened 1,000,000 times.

1:21:35 There is no Yeah, you make the phone call to your.

1:21:39 Parent you make that call. And there is no, you're safe.

1:21:41 You won't get in trouble for how drunk you are at that point.

1:21:44 Yeah, I just would rather that. Phone call.

1:21:47 I feel like the hangover would be enough.

1:21:49 Exactly they. Yeah, the punishments.

1:21:51 Will come in another way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly

1:21:54 right yes. So the kids, the kids, the

1:21:57 three, the 619 year olds, ish, they're all ish get back in the

1:22:02 boat and they go. I think it was like literally 5

1:22:05 minutes down the river to a river to a pub that was a bar

1:22:11 that was on the river. Yeah.

1:22:12 So they've docked the boat and basically the everyone bar Paul

1:22:19 and Connor stay in the boat because they are.

1:22:21 Two of them walk, I think Mallory and and Connor go like

1:22:24 for a walk. Mallory and Anthony, Anthony,

1:22:26 sorry. Oh my God.

1:22:27 Melanie and Anthony go, Anthony go for a walk along the pier

1:22:29 kind of thing. On the along the dock, I mean,

1:22:31 'cause you can see them on CCTV. True that they whereas I know

1:22:35 Morgan and and Miley. Miley stay in the boat.

1:22:39 Yeah and yeah, and the other two go into the bar.

1:22:42 Yeah, so Connor and Paul go into the bar.

1:22:44 Apparently they are there for like 7 minutes.

1:22:46 Mm Hmm. They have two shots each.

1:22:48 And then they go back out to the boat because I think everyone

1:22:51 just wanted to get home. And so the fact that Paul even

1:22:54 wanted to stop was pissing everyone off.

1:22:56 Yeah. So what what they say happens

1:22:59 next is there is a bit of contention, but I think it's

1:23:04 been proven now what actually happened through the 6th.

1:23:06 And no, no contention anymore. Yeah, accident reconstruction

1:23:10 and whatever. Yeah, in the boat we have Connor

1:23:16 and Paul at the steering wheel, but Paul is definitely behind

1:23:21 the steering wheel. Connor is to the side of that.

1:23:24 Yeah, in the back of the boat, behind them, sitting on the

1:23:28 floor of the boat is Anthony and Mallory.

1:23:31 Now Mallory is sitting on Anthony's lap.

1:23:34 She's scared. They're both scared.

1:23:36 They're worried. They're holding on for dear life

1:23:38 because Paul is. They're worried about him.

1:23:41 He's he. He can.

1:23:43 We should, I should sort of say to you, like, I mean, they were

1:23:45 all drinking all particularly. Absolutely.

1:23:46 Yeah. But Paul particularly was more

1:23:50 drunk than everyone else. Yes, he was.

1:23:52 They called him Timmy. When he got to this point, he

1:23:54 had a different persona. He was alter ego.

1:23:57 An alter ego, yeah, that he would pull out.

1:23:59 All know people who when they, you know, there's all lovely

1:24:03 when people are fun drunks, but we all know people who are not a

1:24:06 not a fun drunk. And Paul was not, yeah, fun

1:24:09 drunk. He got really nasty and stupid.

1:24:14 Belligerent. Yeah.

1:24:15 And combative. Yeah, because I mean the other

1:24:19 guys in the boat did say let us drive.

1:24:21 They felt that they were in more of a level to be able to drive,

1:24:25 probably even themselves didn't want to with how much they

1:24:27 drunk, but knew that they could manage it better than Paul could

1:24:30 and would be take it slower and easier.

1:24:32 Yeah, whereas Paul was doing loops around he was he?

1:24:35 Well. Apparently he started off from

1:24:37 from this dock. So after they'd been and had

1:24:40 these couple of shots, he started off quite slow.

1:24:43 And so because in the front of the boat was Morgan and Miley,

1:24:47 they were just sitting on a cooler.

1:24:49 Yeah, that they'd had the beers in previously.

1:24:51 So apparently at the start he was driving quite slowly and

1:24:55 everyone was like, OK. Like this is this is.

1:24:58 Good. Like you're happy with this And

1:25:00 then there was some argument or something happened between him

1:25:03 and Connor. Yeah, well, I think Connor was

1:25:05 saying. Do you think maybe I should?

1:25:06 Drive. Yeah.

1:25:07 Oh, is that what it was? I think it was, I think.

1:25:09 OK, yeah. And Paul's like fuck this shit.

1:25:11 And he's just done a Timmy and he's like fuck this.

1:25:14 And he's just put it full throttle, put the boat full

1:25:16 throttle. But one point in this too.

1:25:18 He slapped his girlfriend. He slapped Morgan.

1:25:20 As well, Yes. Hit her and said to her

1:25:23 something like, you know, it's just, it's really shit how your

1:25:26 dad can't provide for your family.

1:25:30 Timmy, shut the fuck up. Yeah, shut the fuck up.

1:25:33 What? The fuck?

1:25:34 I think because her mum was a really, it was a good, really

1:25:37 good high level nurse and so she might have maybe earned a bit

1:25:40 more than her dad like than her dad did.

1:25:41 Oh my God. Like, so he's a whole rich

1:25:44 family looking down on her. What a Dick.

1:25:47 What a fucking Dick. Better family, We're far better

1:25:49 than hers. Well, you look at yeah, because

1:25:51 I think her mum is a nurse at a prison.

1:25:54 Yeah, a nurse, a really high level nurse.

1:25:56 Like kind of like hardcore nurse.

1:25:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, really amazing.

1:26:01 Yeah. So, yeah.

1:26:04 So basically, Paul Timmy is now driving incredibly fast and very

1:26:10 radically. Now, two things to note here.

1:26:12 The first thing to note is that the light on the boat was

1:26:16 broken. The second thing to note is

1:26:19 that. So what I'm saying is they

1:26:21 couldn't see where they were going.

1:26:22 No. And these canals get more and

1:26:25 more narrow the closer they get to the house or to where they

1:26:29 dock the boat permanently. Yeah.

1:26:31 And so, OK, fine, maybe if he was speeding back at the start

1:26:36 of where they were, it was a really big wide body of water.

1:26:39 Yeah. As it gets to the point where

1:26:42 this happens, the the, the accident happens.

1:26:46 It's not an accident really when you're you know, anyway, it's

1:26:50 not. The canals are slowly.

1:26:52 Narrow. It's not only that it's narrow,

1:26:53 it's actually the fact that because it's a bridge, there's

1:26:56 pylons. Yeah.

1:26:57 So you to get through between the pylons?

1:26:59 It was narrow, yeah. So and he's still.

1:27:02 Going to river itself was still quite wide there OK well wide

1:27:05 enough obviously that what needed a bridge like kind of

1:27:08 stuff but like yeah it wasn't that narrow at this point but

1:27:10 yeah the narrow it was narrow to get through the.

1:27:12 Pipe OK, yeah, but what happened was because he was going so

1:27:15 fast, we don't know if he didn't see the bridge in time or

1:27:19 whether he just didn't give a shit and he just thought, oh,

1:27:22 you. Kept telling me I know these

1:27:24 roof. This roof, Yeah.

1:27:24 Like the back of my hand don't know how to navigate clearly.

1:27:27 No, because he actually crashed into a pylon.

1:27:30 Now with that, with the force of that everyone bar pole was

1:27:37 thrown. Connor and Connor were thrown

1:27:39 from the. Boat, I think actually only no.

1:27:42 So only only Anthony and Mallory ended up in the water and the

1:27:48 others remained in the boat but injured.

1:27:49 So I think, oh, maybe Morgan might have come out of the

1:27:51 think. Morgan came out of the boat as.

1:27:53 Well, yeah, so because Connor fell and This is why they can

1:27:57 prove that he wasn't driving. Yeah.

1:27:58 He fell forward and onto some things on the front there where

1:28:01 he he ended up injured in the mouth and he like he's

1:28:04 dislocated his jaw. So the way he fell onto some

1:28:07 equipment and the debt, the equipment got damaged in the

1:28:09 boat as well. How he forced full forward.

1:28:11 Yeah. But obviously with the impact

1:28:13 from the front, the boats like tipped from the at the back and

1:28:15 thrown Mallory and Anthony out. Yeah.

1:28:20 So Anthony said he heard Mallory scream as they've both taken off

1:28:25 in into the water. But that's the last he heard

1:28:29 from her. Morgan injured her hand, like

1:28:32 actually her fingers were degloved basically.

1:28:34 I think so. He the boat crushed.

1:28:37 Yeah. So she was holding onto the

1:28:39 outside of the boat. Yeah.

1:28:40 Holding on for dear life, obviously.

1:28:43 And the boat, actually. Her hand was crushed between the

1:28:45 boat and the and the concrete pylon.

1:28:47 That's right, Yeah. Unfortunately, Dick Fabrine's

1:28:52 Paul, who was driving, barely had much of an injury.

1:28:54 He didn't even have barely had a scratch on her.

1:28:56 Yeah, I. Can't remember what injuries

1:28:59 Miley had, but she was. Definitely had anything too

1:29:02 significant. No, it wasn't too.

1:29:03 I think she was pretty right. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, God.

1:29:07 So they immediately are like Anthony comes up from out of the

1:29:10 waters, like calling Mallory, they can't find her.

1:29:13 I mean, you listen to the 911 call it.

1:29:15 Is oh, you can just hear everyone but Paul screaming for

1:29:20 Mallory and you, you can tell they're so desperate.

1:29:23 That's so desperate. Anthony doesn't get out of the

1:29:25 water. He stays in the water looking

1:29:26 for her. Connor is the one who calls the

1:29:28 police. Yeah, he calls 911 on the bank.

1:29:31 And is begging people to come and explaining where they are

1:29:36 and you can hear fuckstick Paul in the background.

1:29:39 Well, he's saying to Paul, what bridge is this, Where are we?

1:29:41 What bridge is it? And.

1:29:43 Arches Archers Creek Bridge, which they say there's only one

1:29:47 bridge in Arches Creek. We're under the bridge.

1:29:49 We're under the bridge like it's awful.

1:29:51 Awful because. You can hear the other three in

1:29:53 the water. Screaming.

1:29:54 Screaming for Mallory? Oh my.

1:29:57 God. When the the basically the

1:30:01 police and ambulance and everyone arrives on the scene to

1:30:04 help, to help look, et cetera, this is where things just turn

1:30:08 real strange. Don't they real quick?

1:30:11 Don't they? It's just so interesting and

1:30:14 there's body Cam footage to back all this Of what?

1:30:17 Happened. It's all on video.

1:30:19 It's very, very, very interesting.

1:30:20 Yeah. So many things.

1:30:23 The biggest one that just gets me at this scene is finally

1:30:28 Anthony's sort of out of the water because there's other

1:30:30 people searching. I think they actually dragged

1:30:31 him out. He wouldn't get out.

1:30:32 He wouldn't stop looking. But eventually he does get

1:30:34 brought in to get checked himself for injuries.

1:30:37 And he's, he's there and there's fucking Paul, barely got clothes

1:30:41 on, right? Well, he'd he'd gotten himself a

1:30:44 bit naked back at the at the at the.

1:30:46 Actual bar, like he, he's just like Dick head wandering around.

1:30:51 And at a point, Anthony says to one of the cops, you hear and

1:30:54 go, you see that guy over there, He's got, he got, he's half

1:30:57 naked or whatever. You know who he is.

1:31:00 That's Alec Murdoch's son. Yeah.

1:31:02 Good luck. Yeah.

1:31:04 Good luck. He knew that.

1:31:08 He was like, he was basically saying he's done this, he's my

1:31:11 girlfriend's lost, most likely dead.

1:31:14 He he's realizing that. He knew that.

1:31:17 And then he knew that it was Paul's fault and there was never

1:31:20 going to be any. Any justice, I I agree with you.

1:31:23 That is such a such a an important moment in this.

1:31:27 Yeah. The other thing that happens on

1:31:28 this night that makes me go, oh, my fucking Lord.

1:31:33 So Anthony calls his mom and dad.

1:31:36 Yeah. And asks them to come down.

1:31:40 Of course, they're there as soon as they can get there.

1:31:42 Yeah. Paul's asking for a phone the

1:31:44 minute he gets on the bank, he's trying to fight, 'cause he's

1:31:46 lost his phone, he's lost. His phone.

1:31:48 Yeah, fucking yeah. Yeah, he needs his.

1:31:49 Phone that was his, that was really important to him to get

1:31:51 a. Phone needed a phone, yeah,

1:31:52 because someone's got to clean up his mess.

1:31:54 But Anthony is able to get in contact with his mum and dad

1:31:58 now. Anthony.

1:32:00 There's body Cam footage of Anthony's mum and she says has

1:32:06 anyone told has? Anyone contacted?

1:32:09 Family and the police officers say no.

1:32:13 Well, actually, what the police. Says is fucked.

1:32:15 Up fucked up he's like, oh, we don't want to you know get them

1:32:19 all worried yet and have them come up here and we don't know

1:32:21 how they're going to act when they get here we.

1:32:22 Don't want them here to cause issues, yeah.

1:32:24 To cause issues now, she says. So Anthony's mum says I'm not

1:32:29 going to tell them. It is not even close to being

1:32:33 her place to have to do that now.

1:32:34 She is very close friends with them but that.

1:32:38 Is, oh, she did exactly what any I would do.

1:32:40 I'd be like, so who? I don't want to make that call

1:32:42 to that family, like to tell her, Oh my God, someone has to

1:32:45 tell them. So eventually, eventually,

1:32:48 Mallory's family are told. But well after all the rest.

1:32:51 Well after they then come to the scene and Mallory's mum.

1:32:55 So Mallory's mum and dad are divorced, but they both come.

1:32:59 Mallory's mum, all she wants is to go down to the scene and have

1:33:05 a look. OK.

1:33:06 So she and the police officers are not letting her.

1:33:08 They're like, no, ma'am, it's an active scene.

1:33:10 You cannot go down there. We cannot have anyone down there

1:33:14 with that. Maggie Murdoch and I believe it

1:33:21 was John Marvin, arrived in a black SUV and they are allowed

1:33:27 to drive down. Go get the boat.

1:33:30 They went and collected the boat.

1:33:32 Yep. You mean the murder?

1:33:35 Hold on, hold on a minute. Sorry.

1:33:37 What? Yeah.

1:33:37 Yeah. The the boat that's got

1:33:40 everyone's blood evidence the windscreens shattered or cracked

1:33:45 at least. They're allowed to go.

1:33:46 Sorry, what? Get out of the water and take

1:33:49 it. Yep.

1:33:50 This active scene. That parent couldn't go and even

1:33:52 look at. Yep.

1:33:54 Now this active scene, right is how do we put this tampered with

1:34:03 by a powerful family whose son was at the helm?

1:34:08 OK However, however. However.

1:34:11 The remaining the five remaining teenagers were taken to the

1:34:18 local hospital. Yep, OK.

1:34:21 They had to. To get Paul into an ambulance

1:34:23 was a nightmare. Timmy.

1:34:25 Timmy. Yeah, totally Timmy.

1:34:27 He was being a total Dick. An absolute Dick.

1:34:29 Belligerent. Yeah, little fucker.

1:34:31 They had to like, strap him in. Like he had to be like,

1:34:34 restrained because he was that much of a Dick.

1:34:36 They didn't take a alcohol test at the scene.

1:34:41 He did eventually get a phone and he was able to call.

1:34:43 Who'd he call he? Called or he tried.

1:34:45 He tried calling Alec first, apparently, and he didn't

1:34:48 answer. So I don't know about that I.

1:34:49 Don't know. I I did hear that.

1:34:50 And then he called Grandpa Grandpa.

1:34:53 Grandpa has then mobilized the troops.

1:34:55 He's contacted Randall, he's contacted John, Marvin and Alec

1:35:00 got them all. And so by the time, you know,

1:35:03 they get to the hospital with little Timmy.

1:35:07 And the other and the and the rest.

1:35:08 Of them Yep in walks Alec with Randall you know with his dad as

1:35:14 well as I think I think because I think John Marvin and the has

1:35:18 been elsewhere and Maggie and Rand and Randall June.

1:35:21 Oh God. Junior's scene, you've got it

1:35:23 gets hard. Yeah.

1:35:24 The uncle of Paul. Yeah, the other uncle, yeah.

1:35:27 So the two uncles and Maggie's sort of been been deployed to

1:35:29 the scene, whereas I think and then Alec and grandpa have gone

1:35:33 to the hospital. Now this I just find this

1:35:36 absolutely just. I can't even.

1:35:38 Absolutely. Honestly the most disgusting

1:35:40 thing ever to think that they could walk in Yep to that scene

1:35:44 and behave the way they did with 0 ramifications.

1:35:47 Also, like, where's the privacy? Oh, how the fuck did they know?

1:35:51 Yeah, that even that those other kids were at that hospital,

1:35:54 honestly, that should not have been known information to them,

1:35:57 the fact that they went into their rooms like they.

1:35:59 Were literally doing surgery on Morgan at the time and he just

1:36:03 walked in going Oh no, I'm her lawyer don't talk to anyone.

1:36:05 Morgan like trying to tell her what to do and she's well, she's

1:36:08 having serious surgery on her hand.

1:36:12 What the? Having just probably witnessed

1:36:14 her best friend's death, yeah. Yeah, and her boyfriend has is

1:36:17 the one who's culprit for this. I mean, how buddy distressing is

1:36:21 all of it, All of it. And then he has the the balls to

1:36:24 walk in there and dictate and tell people what to do.

1:36:26 But what he was trying to. Nurse apparently totally told

1:36:29 him to fuck off. That's.

1:36:30 Good on her. Yeah, but apparently what he

1:36:32 told them all was Ohh, Connor was driving, right?

1:36:34 Connor was driving. You tell them that Connor was

1:36:37 driving and I'll take care of the rest.

1:36:39 But there's there is video footage of Cam, body Cam footage

1:36:43 at the scene where it's spoken about by all of them, all the

1:36:47 kids that I say kids like. 19 years old, yeah.

1:36:50 But on the all those that are on the boat commenting about, you

1:36:53 know, Paul being the driver, Yeah.

1:36:54 So it's like this is just. This is fog on mate.

1:36:57 Fog on you think you think you're being clever container.

1:37:00 You're an absolute fuck wit. But then the fact that he goes

1:37:02 into like Connor and he says to him in the hospital who he is

1:37:06 got he's got 4. It's bad, bad.

1:37:09 It was you can see it's got scars to this day on his on his

1:37:12 jaw. His jaw was dislocated.

1:37:13 He was in pain. So he he goes into him and says

1:37:18 to him to he tells him to say that he was the driver and don't

1:37:21 worry, we'll take care of you. Well, you're not taking care of

1:37:24 him because you're telling him to lie.

1:37:26 Yep. But that's how they weasel their

1:37:29 way out of his hook. They are so so fucked up.

1:37:32 It's so disgusting. It's so fucked up.

1:37:34 I mean. It's just, it is kind of.

1:37:37 Kid, this on some other young kid is just absolutely

1:37:41 disgusting. Yeah.

1:37:43 So while they're at the hospital, because Timmy was so

1:37:47 belligerent, yeah, and so uncooperative, Yeah, Thankfully

1:37:51 the hospital took a blood alcohol blood sample.

1:37:55 Yes, and it was analysed at being three times the legal

1:37:58 limit .24. Now, he shouldn't have been

1:38:00 drinking at all. He wasn't of legal drinking at

1:38:02 all. He shouldn't have been operating

1:38:04 a boat. So even if he was old enough, he

1:38:06 was not 3. That's right, he was three times

1:38:08 the legal limit to be operating that boat.

1:38:11 Yeah, it's just disgusting. Yeah.

1:38:13 It's really, really horrific. Yeah.

1:38:17 That so they're back at the scene, though they they still

1:38:20 don't find Mallory. I mean, I think it takes them

1:38:21 about a. Seven, literally I think it was

1:38:23 on the 8th day so it was like 7 days of searching.

1:38:26 They finally found to find her body, which is just so

1:38:29 distressing that it takes that long for them to find her.

1:38:32 I mean, in that time, I can just imagine as a family that they're

1:38:36 thinking, you know, trying to stay hopeful that she's going to

1:38:39 be OK, but you just know that that's not possible to.

1:38:42 Did you find it really interesting in the documentary

1:38:45 where her mum is interviewed and she's like, you know, you know,

1:38:47 it didn't really occur to us at the time, but like, why didn't

1:38:50 they ping her Apple Watch? Like there were things.

1:38:54 That find my Apple Watch or something could have been a

1:38:56 thing. Yeah, yeah.

1:38:57 Yeah. And she said, you know, there

1:38:58 are things that I look back on now.

1:39:00 And of course, you can't think critically when your daughter's

1:39:02 like, that wasn't on her to think about that.

1:39:04 No, I'm like, you just think about that situation.

1:39:07 I think to myself, Gee, I wonder whether someone was like, let's

1:39:10 ping her Apple Watch. Yeah.

1:39:12 And that was maybe what's the word, poo pooed like as in did

1:39:20 someone go Oh no. But I guess at that point it

1:39:22 wouldn't have mattered. No, but, but, but, Alex says at

1:39:26 the hospital, yeah, he's overheard by a security guard on

1:39:29 the phone and he says to someone, don't worry, she's not

1:39:34 that. She still hasn't been found.

1:39:36 So I think he was hoping. That.

1:39:39 She would never be found. I mean, she's going to turn up.

1:39:43 What is I mean, they do turn up. This is The thing is.

1:39:46 He hoping that he'd find it first.

1:39:48 Oh God, I don't know. Do you know?

1:39:52 What I mean? Do you get what you mean?

1:39:54 I thought of it in that way. Because if with if there's no

1:39:59 body like, I don't know, would they then be able to spin some

1:40:02 other kind of? I don't I don't maybe they would

1:40:04 gone like. A bit of reasonable doubt in

1:40:06 there or something. Maybe without a body I don't

1:40:08 know what the law is in. Well, that's what I'm thinking.

1:40:10 Like, kind of like, yeah. Is there is there a legal field

1:40:13 where you can't charge him with murder if there's no body maybe?

1:40:18 There's something in that, I think I really actually think

1:40:20 that. But anyway, so they haven't

1:40:22 found her body in for seven days, but thankfully some I

1:40:26 think it was actually volunteers who found her body because I.

1:40:29 Mean they found once they did find her body, they that had her

1:40:32 injuries, she was immediately hit her head as she exited the

1:40:36 boat which so she was unconscious when she hit the

1:40:38 water, which meant that she then drowned.

1:40:40 So like there was no no matter whether they found her 5 seconds

1:40:44 after she'd gone in or not, unfortunately.

1:40:47 She wouldn't. She wouldn't have.

1:40:48 Survived so that that's the only comfort you can take in this of

1:40:52 like not finding her sooner is that it wouldn't have mattered.

1:40:55 Unfortunately like that's awful. But yeah, not nice to you.

1:41:00 Would have wanted to found her immediately.

1:41:03 Just 100% yeah. Oh, it's just so.

1:41:07 It's so incredibly sad and I can't imagine how her family has

1:41:11 gotten through it. No, really, don't.

1:41:13 The thing with this then is like that's the the night of this

1:41:17 occurring is such a fucking shit show.

1:41:19 It's you know, and to I think blind Freddie, you know, someone

1:41:24 is liable for this and he should be charged.

1:41:27 You'd think, right? Yep, no so long goes by.

1:41:32 He's not even interviewed. No, as the driver of the vessel,

1:41:36 he's not even interviewed. This, it just, yeah, this just

1:41:41 highlighted so much of how their influence and power and power

1:41:45 had over law enforcement and all these things.

1:41:47 It was just horrific. Yeah.

1:41:50 And I, I applaud the the young people involved in this, the

1:41:53 other four people who survived. Yeah.

1:41:57 They have not backed down and they have come forward and

1:42:00 spoken. They haven't covered up for him

1:42:02 and they haven't done what Alec told them to do.

1:42:06 They were in, you know, had a complete conviction to be like,

1:42:09 no, that's not what happened. And I'm not letting my friend

1:42:12 Anthony now go down or kind of to go down for this, you know,

1:42:15 and all these things. They all loved Mallory, like she

1:42:17 was beautiful person and they knew she was.

1:42:20 She. This was tragic that that

1:42:22 happened. To then have these assholes come

1:42:24 into this and go we're going to change the narrative of her

1:42:27 death is so wrong. Yeah, and I'm glad they all

1:42:31 stuck to their guns on that. And we're like, Nah, fuck off,

1:42:33 we're not falling for you. Your bullshit.

1:42:36 Yeah. Thank, thank.

1:42:37 Yeah. The other thing that I think we

1:42:40 were talking about Morgan's relationship with.

1:42:46 Paul. And I think there were several

1:42:49 instances that happened. And she says in the documentary

1:42:52 that she was young, she didn't really know that that wasn't

1:42:56 right. She said.

1:42:57 She said words that I think anyone who's been in an abusive

1:43:01 relationship lives for and clings to is that she said the

1:43:05 good times were good. Yeah, there were bad times that

1:43:09 weren't so bad, weren't so good, and they were pretty bad when

1:43:11 they were bad. But the good stuff was really

1:43:13 good. And so she was convinced by

1:43:16 those good moments that those bad things would go away, you

1:43:19 know, and that they weren't they weren't as important.

1:43:21 But unfortunately how, how you can have more good times and bad

1:43:26 times. But if those bad times, what

1:43:29 they what was going on? That's not healthy.

1:43:31 That's not OK. There were so many instances,

1:43:35 but I like they were just sort of a couple that I thought I

1:43:37 would bring up. So on the night of Buster's

1:43:43 graduation, I think it was his high school graduation.

1:43:47 Not because obviously he never actually graduated.

1:43:50 Graduated from university. Yeah.

1:43:53 Paul was really, really drunk and he choked her and she kind

1:43:57 of fought back. And then apparently he sucker

1:44:00 punched her so hard in her knee. I don't know what damage was

1:44:04 done, but damage was done. Like it was so violent.

1:44:08 Her telling these stories on that doco just break me.

1:44:13 Yep, the the other one, this other one.

1:44:15 And this is like where I'm like, Oh, yes, the family have got a

1:44:19 lot of practice in covering shit up.

1:44:21 In 2017, Paul and Morgan were in a car.

1:44:26 Yes, and or in Paul's pickup truck.

1:44:30 Yeah. And he drove the truck into a

1:44:32 ditch. He was drunk as fuck when Morgan

1:44:39 tried to call 911. Well.

1:44:41 She no, she did. Was Yeah, she called 9.

1:44:43 One did it actually connected it?

1:44:44 Yeah. Paul basically slapped the phone

1:44:47 out of her hand, didn't he? And then he hung up.

1:44:50 Yes. Actually, no, you're right.

1:44:51 It did connect because he then hung up the 911 call.

1:44:54 Yeah. And he used that phone to call

1:44:57 his grandfather, Grandpa. Grandpa then contacted Alex and

1:45:02 Maggie and they all showed up to clear out, literally, Morgan

1:45:08 says. It was like a swift operation.

1:45:10 They got in there, they cleared out all the beer cans and the

1:45:13 guns that were in his truck. Yeah.

1:45:16 And moved them all. Move them all along.

1:45:19 And told her off for calling. Oh yeah, she got into trouble

1:45:21 for calling 911. Why did you do that?

1:45:24 She got a real scolding for doing that.

1:45:26 Because we were in an accident, yeah.

1:45:30 I mean. Our truck was in a ditch, like

1:45:31 what the fuck else we were meant to do?

1:45:33 Like that was the right thing to do.

1:45:34 Yeah, Morgan actually has said that the only good thing to come

1:45:39 out of Mallory's death is that and because Mallory and Miley

1:45:42 were all over her saying she needs to break up with Paul.

1:45:45 Yeah, this is so awful. But like she says that Mallory

1:45:48 saved her life and I absolutely believe it.

1:45:51 I. Fully do as well.

1:45:52 That Mallory's death hurt. The what that did was that it

1:45:55 showed that she needed to get out of that relationship and she

1:45:57 has stuck to it and gone out of it.

1:45:59 Yeah, he begged her he after. He tried and tried to get.

1:46:02 Back so hard to get back to her. Yeah.

1:46:05 I. Just that just kills me.

1:46:08 It's. Horrific.

1:46:09 But it just goes like I think this incident with the truck in

1:46:12 the ditch, not only the hubris of him drinking and driving with

1:46:17 his girlfriend in the car is, yeah, that's one thing.

1:46:21 The fact that his family then swooping to save the day.

1:46:24 It all up, there's no consequences, so enabled like.

1:46:28 This young, young man. Well, she said that she, you

1:46:31 know, her family would have a drink and things like that, but

1:46:33 she said she'd never seen drinking, even just in general,

1:46:35 until she was in their family home.

1:46:37 She said it was just there was always wine on the table.

1:46:40 There was always. Yeah.

1:46:41 The kids participating were encouraged to drink with that.

1:46:44 Yeah. She was.

1:46:45 She was, you know, handed a glass of wine when she'd

1:46:47 arrived, you know, underage, etcetera.

1:46:49 And she'd never experienced that before.

1:46:51 It would just be really. Yeah.

1:46:53 I mean, she was in a whole different world to what she was

1:46:55 she'd grown up in. Yeah.

1:46:57 You know, not to say that they would.

1:46:59 They were very welcoming to her. But at the same time, I think

1:47:02 they were trying to groom her to be, you know.

1:47:04 Yeah, potentially, I guess Paul's future partner for life,

1:47:08 that she had to fall in the line then with certain things.

1:47:12 But they all knew, too, that Paul was not a good guy because

1:47:15 back when he was a kid, he used to kill animals.

1:47:18 Yes, Red flag, number one. Tick.

1:47:22 Tick. Yeah, very.

1:47:24 I mean, I mean, they, they were hunters as well, but we're.

1:47:27 Talking about no, but he would, yeah.

1:47:29 This is actually like not shooting animals for sport,

1:47:32 which I just can't even anyway. No, but this is like, actually

1:47:37 causing, you know, harm to animals that they weren't

1:47:40 hunting. Yeah.

1:47:41 Yeah. And the family, Yeah, again,

1:47:46 knew about it and allowed it. Yeah.

1:47:50 The only person I think that knew it and allowed it, but at

1:47:54 the same time, at least warned, was Gloria.

1:47:57 Gloria at least had the foresight.

1:48:00 She did say to Morgan, you know, he's not a good guy.

1:48:03 Yeah. And she told him, told her about

1:48:05 these things when he was a kid of how he would do these things

1:48:07 to animals and stuff. And she said, you know, like, I

1:48:10 just don't think that he's someone you should date.

1:48:12 Yeah, yeah. Very, very good advice.

1:48:15 Yeah. So the other thing then is that

1:48:18 eventually Paul was charged? He is, yes.

1:48:21 So he was charged for two. Oh, I've got it written down

1:48:24 somewhere, but he was charged for, I think, 2 counts of

1:48:28 operating of a BUI. So boating under the influence

1:48:33 resulting in grievous bodily harm.

1:48:35 Yeah. And one count of operating a

1:48:41 boat under the influence causing death, yes.

1:48:44 So the the hand injury and the Connor's jaw injury with a

1:48:48 grievous bodily harm, Yeah. And then obviously, Mallory's

1:48:51 death. Yes, now.

1:48:54 That court hearing was a little bit interesting.

1:48:56 Though, wasn't it? Do you want to talk about that?

1:48:58 Well, the interesting thing of it was that if anyone else was

1:49:02 charged with those things, they might have been charged and like

1:49:06 held in remand. In custody, They're in custody.

1:49:10 Whereas he that never happened for him.

1:49:12 He rocked in in his shirt and tie and sat down and did the

1:49:17 what he needed to do sign the paperwork of like what his plea

1:49:19 was kind of thing of like what they were going to move forward

1:49:21 to next and then walked out and back home again and his shirt

1:49:24 and tie. No anyone else.

1:49:28 I think bail was something like 5 grand like it.

1:49:30 Was, I think it was 70 grand, right?

1:49:32 It was nothing. Nothing for that family.

1:49:34 Absolutely. That was.

1:49:35 It was probably the equivalent if it was 5.

1:49:37 Grand for us, you know it was. The equivalent of what was

1:49:39 pittance in terms of like a bail?

1:49:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a joke, an absolute.

1:49:46 Joke. His bail should have been 2

1:49:48 million minimum. Apparently as he was arrested

1:49:51 right for the first interview that he actually eventually did,

1:49:54 which was years later. I think it was 2 years later.

1:49:57 Yeah, it was 2 years later. Yeah, apparently as he was

1:50:00 walking out, like after he'd been been arrested.

1:50:05 Yeah, Alex says to him, We're going to be all right.

1:50:08 Just keep your mouth shut and tell them you don't know who was

1:50:10 driving. Oh.

1:50:14 My God. Sorry, at what point are you

1:50:17 going to make your 19, now 21 year old son, Yeah, accountable

1:50:21 for his actions? You know, I'm it, I'm all for

1:50:24 protecting our kids. I think as a parent, that's your

1:50:26 natural instinct. But there comes a point where

1:50:30 you cannot do that. They have to understand the

1:50:34 consequences of their actions. And I assume that Paul has never

1:50:38 had to deal with the consequence of any action, any negative

1:50:41 action that he's ever, you know, perpetrated before.

1:50:45 God, no, well, I mean, even on that documentary that you see

1:50:48 like where the others who now they don't have any relationship

1:50:51 with him and like they were like best best friends and they're

1:50:54 like, I can't, I cannot with you.

1:50:55 He was very much Paul was like, oh, we just carry on like, you

1:50:58 know, but they were no, can't. I can't.

1:51:00 I'm really pissed at you. I think it was really I don't

1:51:03 know. It gets me a bit where I think

1:51:05 it was Anthony who said like, I'll always love him.

1:51:07 He was, he was my best mate. But I just can't.

1:51:10 Yeah, like, and I get that entirely.

1:51:12 Like Paul just moved on to like another group of people who

1:51:15 wanted to drink with him and be in chat.

1:51:16 Of him like drinking the same way he was drinking.

1:51:18 Like, there's absolutely no like, hey, maybe I need to make

1:51:21 some changes in my life. And I think that's where like

1:51:23 Anthony was kind of getting at this point of like, if he had

1:51:26 seen Paul take accountability and seeing Paul make changes in

1:51:30 his life, he could have supported that.

1:51:31 Yep. But he can't support a Dick who

1:51:34 just literally has no accountability for his actions

1:51:37 still. It's disgusting, yeah.

1:51:39 And that's a product of his upbringing.

1:51:41 Like he's never had to change his behaviour before.

1:51:44 So it probably never even occurred to him that he.

1:51:46 Needed to change, no. And this, I mean, we'll get into

1:51:48 probably this bit a bit more next next week.

1:51:50 But like there is so much in that in terms of generationally

1:51:55 where this has come from. I mean, I don't know if you read

1:51:57 about the the now it must have been his grandfather.

1:52:01 Something occurred and he put in a in a an.

1:52:04 Obituary for his wife. Oh, yeah.

1:52:07 Libby. Yeah.

1:52:08 She wasn't dead. She wasn't dead.

1:52:09 And someone that was a threat of, like, what to come, what

1:52:12 will happen to that? She was at, like, at a shop or

1:52:15 something the next day. And someone's like, I saw an

1:52:17 obituary for you in the paper this morning.

1:52:19 'Cause that was based, I mean, back in the day when that was

1:52:21 like where everyone looked. For yeah, that's it.

1:52:23 And she was like, well, I'm clearly not dead, but I probably

1:52:27 need to be worried. This.

1:52:30 Yeah. So this is a, as you said, this

1:52:34 is a generational thing. They are.

1:52:36 They think they're above the law.

1:52:37 They think they can. I mean, you can't threaten your

1:52:40 fucking wife who does that? Who does that?

1:52:43 Who fucking does that and then stays with a piece of shit and

1:52:45 lives with him and Oh my God. Because I mean, I think it was,

1:52:48 you know, earlyish days of them being married.

1:52:50 I don't know. I can't remember what year it

1:52:51 was that happened. Oh, I think it was.

1:52:55 I think they had some young kids.

1:52:57 They had Young. Jewels.

1:52:57 Yeah, I think so. It was just, Oh my God, not get

1:53:01 out. Oh my God, that piece of shit

1:53:02 will kill you. Yeah, and it'll cover it up.

1:53:05 Yeah. Well, she didn't.

1:53:07 I mean, she was still around. Oh, she was there.

1:53:10 Well, up till, you know, the next bit we're gonna talk about,

1:53:12 she was, she was alive then. So, yeah.

1:53:14 But Oh my God. Yeah, but that was just a little

1:53:17 warning. To her, 100% it's a threat even

1:53:20 more than a warning. It's a full blown.

1:53:21 Threat. He would have seen it as a

1:53:23 warning. Oh, you know.

1:53:26 Oh God. So just in Mallary's honor, she

1:53:33 was 19 years old. She loved rescue dogs.

1:53:37 She had her whole life ahead of her, and she was such a

1:53:42 beautiful human being. I think there was a video of her

1:53:46 on one of the documentaries that I watched from when she was a

1:53:49 little girl, and she said she wanted to be a vet.

1:53:52 But I think, you know, she was looking into, you know, other

1:53:54 different, other careers. And you know how unfair this is,

1:53:59 how unfair. But guys, never get into a car

1:54:01 where someone's been drinking, a car, a boat, any vehicle where a

1:54:04 person's been drinking. All you got.

1:54:06 If it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

1:54:09 And I bet you those, the remaining 4 at least, really

1:54:12 regret. Oh absolutely.

1:54:14 I just absolutely imagine living with that for the rest of your

1:54:18 life. This is it.

1:54:19 That's it. I mean, that's the thing.

1:54:20 I mean, I don't know what's worse, to be honest.

1:54:22 Like the fact I mean, well, yeah, losing someone's life is

1:54:25 disgust is just absolutely horrendous.

1:54:27 But living through that and living with that knowledge of

1:54:30 that occurrence would just be hell as well.

1:54:32 So it's. You don't want to be either part

1:54:34 in that. No, no, no.

1:54:37 I think this is probably a good point to leave it.

1:54:40 Yeah. And we'll come back next week

1:54:43 and tie. Well, there's so much more to

1:54:45 discuss and then we can actually tie it all all together.

1:54:48 Literally only halfway through this.

1:54:50 Yeah, literally. Like there is more to this story

1:54:52 which just is so fucked up. So fucked up.

1:54:56 All right, well, please come back next week.

1:54:58 We would love to have you for the conclusion of this batshit

1:55:02 crazy story. Yeah.

1:55:04 And thank you for joining us again today.

1:55:05 We really appreciate. Absolutely.

1:55:07 Just a quick reminder that we are not on Tiktok anymore.

1:55:10 We've been banned. Come join us over on Instagram

1:55:13 and have a chat over there about what our first week of this

1:55:16 episode, this story of the Murdoch's has brought and what

1:55:19 you think of what we've spoken about so far before we get into

1:55:22 Part 2 next week. Mm hmm.

1:55:24 Stay curious, crime besties. Bye.