Episode 69 - The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties, we are here for episode 6960. 9

0:20 Peters favorite. I have to tell this story about

0:25 when Oliver was in grade 2 or grade one.

0:28 It might have even been his teacher came out to me after

0:31 school one day. And she's like, oh, can I have a

0:32 quick word with you? She was never a good Oh, and

0:35 you're always like, oh God, what's happened now?

0:37 And she's like, I just wanted to just let you know that whenever

0:42 I ask for a number in class, like if we're putting maths

0:44 equations on board, Oliver always says 69.

0:49 And she goes, I just, I asked him about it today and he said,

0:55 oh, it's because it's my dad's favorite.

0:56 And then? That teacher tells this story

1:05 more often even than you do. I'm Dumber.

1:09 And I was like, oh God, yeah, he's he's he's 40, but he's, you

1:17 know, but he is 1212. Yeah.

1:19 He's got the mentality of a 12 year old schoolboy.

1:22 And then she's like, and he also told me that it was the last

1:25 digits of his phone number. And I'm like, well, that's

1:27 actually true. And I'm sure he chose that phone

1:30 number when he was 18, when he was 18 or whatever, because it

1:33 had that number on. So I'm like, I came home.

1:42 I was, I was like, I mean, it was very funny.

1:45 And she was, she was quite tongue in cheek about it.

1:47 Obviously she was. It was a bit of a laugh, but I

1:51 came home and I was like, furious with Peter.

1:53 I'm like, he's bloody How? I don't know.

1:54 How old are you? In Grade 1?

1:56 I don't know, 7878? Yeah, something like that.

1:58 Seven. I'm like, for God's sake, what

2:01 have you taught our children? I.

2:03 Love it 'cause like Ollie has no idea why that's Daddy's favorite

2:05 number. That's right.

2:07 Just knows that it is. Oh, it's so funny.

2:09 Ohh. I love it.

2:11 Love it. So anyway, welcome to episode

2:13 69. Yeah.

2:16 And today we're discussing the case of Amy Lynn Bradley.

2:20 So, you know, this will be. This is quite a convoluted 1.

2:23 Ohh, it is a so so. Much.

2:26 Yes. So, so much before we get into

2:30 today's, you know, today's case, though, I think there's a couple

2:33 of updates that I just wanted to have a quick chat about that

2:36 have happened literally this week I have.

2:37 Not caught up? On any new case, so I'll be.

2:40 I'm here for it here. For it.

2:41 OK, so first thing on Wednesday this week, so we're recording

2:44 this on the 7th. So this happened on the 5th of

2:46 November 2025. The Easy St. committal hearing

2:52 of Perry Korumbulus started and his defence barrister is Dermot

2:58 Dan as well. He's.

3:00 Busy man, he's a busy. Busy bloke.

3:02 Oh God. And basically in the committal

3:06 they're just deciding whether or not there's enough evidence to

3:08 take Perry to trial because he's saying that.

3:12 So Dermot Dan on his behalf has said that he will be pleading

3:15 not guilty to murder and that he wants the rape charge dismissed.

3:19 So watch this space. I mean, there's a lot, there's a

3:22 lot that's been said in the last two days.

3:25 So it was heard on Wednesday and Thursday, and I believe there

3:28 are three more days scheduled in the future to finish hearing it

3:31 before the justice can then have some time to go back and

3:34 consider whether or not this is something that will proceed to

3:37 trial. So watch this space.

3:39 We'll keep everyone updated. Yeah, I just, I just feel for

3:42 their families. It's been so long already.

3:45 And now like I oh God, if he did it, it just shits me that he's

3:49 maybe going to drag this out and potentially.

3:51 Well, he's already 77 or something like that, you know?

3:55 You've had many years of freedom like, well, if he, if he did

3:59 this. Yeah, fuck you.

4:01 Yeah, fuck. What a piece of shit.

4:03 I know it's allegedly. Yeah, all very alleged at the

4:07 moment. Mm hmm.

4:08 And then the other update is yesterday, none other than This

4:13 is just such timing. We've done it again.

4:16 Tony Mokbel walked free from from well, from court yesterday

4:21 because the charges on the drug charge that we talked about in

4:25 last week's episode with Nicola Gabo, yeah, that big drug charge

4:29 that he was convicted for, they slashed the sentence to time

4:33 already served. And the reasoning for that was

4:37 it was his first conviction over drugs, believe it or not.

4:40 Which seems. Ridiculous.

4:43 But but it was it was the fact that Nicola Gabo was involved

4:47 and and like also he sustained a head injury while he was in

4:53 prison, so he got some time off for that as well.

4:55 Yeah, interesting. I find really interesting too,

4:58 like there was a a coin that we were at that that.

5:03 True crime. Recently about the fact that a

5:06 local Tavern had been investigated by because their,

5:10 their amount of money going through their pokies had like

5:13 tripled recently and they were like, what's going on here?

5:15 Like doing a bit of money laundering, are we like.

5:18 And we're very much looked into. And it turned out they that when

5:22 they spoke to the venue, they said, I don't know, we've just

5:24 got a new patron 'cause he's out and about.

5:27 And so, yeah, Tony Mokbel's been spending time at the pokies it.

5:31 Was to the tune of something like 300 grand or something like

5:34 it. Was a some of the an extra 80

5:36 grand a. Week a week, yeah.

5:38 That accumulated over a few weeks.

5:39 They were like, this isn't right.

5:43 Yeah. Pokies, no one wins on a pokie.

5:45 No, no, no. They are made for you to lose.

5:51 That might not. Maybe someone wins some money,

5:54 but. Yeah, they probably.

5:55 How much money you put in them, I can see it.

5:57 Yeah, that's exactly right. So they're the two big updates

6:00 in cases that we've covered, you know, already.

6:03 So interesting, Very, very interesting.

6:06 Watch this space. What do you think will come of

6:07 the the Perry crumbles? That's I'm nervous of that

6:12 because I mean, it is. It was so long ago to have the

6:16 evidence that they need to get him, you know, so far down the

6:19 track. Witnesses it is.

6:22 It's gonna be tough. They they called some witnesses.

6:25 Yeah. To, to the committal hearings.

6:27 So the journalist who lived next door, Yeah, she she testified

6:31 as, as did her housemate. And they spoke about their

6:34 story. Iona Stevens, I think her name

6:37 was. Yeah.

6:37 And the interesting thing was her, her roommate, her

6:43 housemate, basically her testimony the other day was

6:47 exactly that of her statement however many years ago.

6:50 And but then. It has to be really like,

6:52 because wasn't. I know.

6:53 And that's the thing that gets me like because that's where

6:55 they're gonna get undone. Yeah, 'cause Dermot Dan's gonna

6:58 jump on that and go. What you're saying your memory

7:00 now is more is better than it was back then?

7:02 What she was saying in this community, she was don't like

7:04 her. I don't either.

7:05 I like it, makes me feel nervous.

7:07 Yep. Yep.

7:09 I don't know. We'll watch this space and and

7:11 go from there. Yeah, we do have a few other

7:14 shout outs today. So we have a couple of new

7:17 Patreons. So we've got Naomi.

7:20 And then relax your head. How long have you?

7:25 Read it like that. From the UK, we think yeah, we

7:29 think so thank you guys. It it really, really, truly

7:33 means a lot to us. And then we had this beautiful

7:36 Instagram DM from one of our loyal, very loyal listeners.

7:40 I see her name come up all the time.

7:43 So victory, yes. And she said she was really

7:46 proud of us for reaching 200,000 listens.

7:49 And I just it really warmed me. It just made me feel like that's

7:53 so nice and sort of acknowledging the fact that, you

7:55 know, we really put ourselves out there to this and to see it

7:58 really starting to gain some momentum.

8:00 Yeah, I think we should be proud of ourselves.

8:02 Absolutely no, and I love that others feel the same way.

8:04 Yes, yes. So thanks guys.

8:06 Thanks. And then we also had Fermi under

8:09 score Pharma leave us another really nice damn.

8:12 So thank you everybody. As I said, even if you can share

8:16 our podcast with one other person, that would be awesome.

8:19 Thank you. Absolutely.

8:20 No, thank you very much to all those people.

8:22 That's it. Because.

8:23 Our Tiktoks like died Yeah what's with that?

8:27 So I think Instagram is our new our new little haven yeah.

8:31 So we'll grow that up a little bit more than because I mean,

8:34 we've still got the amount, the amount of followers we've got on

8:36 TikTok is amazing. But the views and stuff is just.

8:39 Really low. We don't get it.

8:41 I mean, we've not. Changed anything?

8:43 No, that's clearly tick tock that have changed things.

8:45 Yeah, but we're not like that good at that stuff like as in

8:49 like we don't get how the algorithm works on how to

8:51 manipulate the algorithm anyway a.

8:53 Few things that I'm like, I think we meant to do this stuff,

8:56 but it's none of the old stuff's working so.

8:58 OK. Well, you're doing great.

9:00 You're doing absolutely good. Too.

9:02 Thank you. You're great.

9:03 No. You're great.

9:03 You are. Let's get into today's case.

9:08 Let's do that. All right, so today, as I said

9:12 at the start of the episode, we are talking about Amy Lynn

9:14 Bradley. Now, I'm sure a lot of

9:17 listeners, especially if you're listening to our podcast, you've

9:20 probably watched or at least heard about the documentary

9:23 that's currently on Netflix called Amy Bradley Is Missing.

9:28 I think that gives a perspective and I think it gives some of the

9:32 story, and I found it interesting to watch and seeing

9:36 the actual people involved in this.

9:38 Yeah. But I think by no means does it

9:40 tell a complete and full story so.

9:42 No, there's definitely some holes, yeah, interesting

9:46 perspectives that they give. Agreed.

9:48 Yeah, agreed. So we'll try and keep things

9:51 like pretty factual to start with and just go through that

9:54 and then we can talk to what we actually think.

9:56 Although I'm super keen to to hear what you're.

9:58 Really keen to hear what you think I.

10:01 Yeah. OK, I really, really want to

10:02 hear what you've got to say about.

10:03 Yeah, Cool. Same unsolved ones always, like,

10:07 yeah, bring this. Yeah.

10:10 In such an element of doubt, yeah.

10:11 So Amy Lynn Bradley was born on the 12th of May in 1974 in

10:15 Petersburg, VA, to IVA and Ron Bradley.

10:19 They were both insurance executives working at the same

10:22 company and a couple of year or a bit over 2 years later, her

10:27 younger brother Brad Bradley was born.

10:30 Let's talk about that. Yeah, let's do it.

10:32 Who does that? OK, so.

10:34 My dad went to school, yeah, with a boy named Evan Evans.

10:40 Well, like, I mean, OK, you like the name Evan.

10:45 You've already given it to them. Like Caitlyn?

10:48 Brooke's eldest son. His name is Lewis Lewis.

10:53 She did do that, didn't she? Now you say that.

10:55 Yeah, I don't. Why?

10:56 I don't know. Why would like it's like

10:58 basically saying we got it right with our surname, we can't do

11:02 anything else. We don't need to put any effort

11:04 into. It Yeah.

11:05 Like, why? Like I loved like.

11:07 I had found it really hard coming up with names to my kids.

11:10 There's plenty of names I didn't want to have.

11:12 Yeah. As a teacher, I bet that yeah,

11:15 I. Have a long list of no's?

11:17 Yes. Yeah.

11:17 Like, unusually, it's most of them started with AJ.

11:20 Yeah, classic. Yeah.

11:23 So it's it was like you want to find like the right name for

11:26 them. Why do you need to always take

11:28 already take one that you've got.

11:31 I don't get, I just don't get it.

11:32 I don't, I don't either. Like.

11:35 And do you think his name was actually like a Bradley Bradley

11:37 and he just goes by Brad? Yeah.

11:39 Exactly. I don't know, I couldn't find

11:41 anything to. No, it seems to be.

11:43 Brad everywhere. Yeah, Brad everywhere.

11:45 Brad Bradley. Bradley.

11:47 People please. I mean, like Amy, you know, like

11:52 it's not lovely. Yeah.

11:53 Lovely, lovely, yeah. There's a million names out

11:57 there. You could go with it.

11:58 Go with Bradley. Yeah, totally.

12:01 Anyway, OK. I'll move on.

12:03 They can we, though. Can we?

12:05 I can't in my internal. Side.

12:07 OK. We, we know it.

12:09 We know it. So they moved into Chesterfield

12:12 County in Virginia when the kids were quite young, bought a

12:16 family home there and really established really firm

12:21 connections to the community there.

12:23 They, the kids both attended LC Byrd High School and then after

12:29 high school. So during high school, sorry,

12:32 Amy was incredibly athletic. I think any sport she tried her

12:36 hand at, she was proficient at and she particularly excelled at

12:40 basketball and swimming. So she was a swim teacher and a

12:45 swim coach through the high school, and she was also a

12:49 lifesaver at the local pool to earn a bit of extra money.

12:52 And I think Brad might have even done the same right when she

12:58 attended. So she went to Longwood

13:00 University with a full scholarship in basketball, And

13:03 she was actually the first student to attain a full

13:07 athletic scholarship to that university.

13:09 Oh, wow. So there were academic

13:10 scholarships beforehand? Yeah.

13:12 It was the first time they'd had a sports scholarship.

13:17 She studied, like, sports psychology, I believe.

13:19 Yeah. Yeah.

13:20 And. Didn't seem to go into that

13:22 afterwards. Well, that's, I find.

13:23 See, this is we're gonna have to come to all this.

13:26 So I think she was looking at doing a masters after she

13:31 finished university and worked for a few years.

13:33 But we can get we can get to all of that.

13:35 In fact, I can't wait to talk to you about all that a bit later.

13:39 So in this was in December of 1996 that she graduated and she

13:43 actually ended up having a couple of years of just working.

13:46 I think she was doing some sports coaching and that kind of

13:48 thing. And then, you know, coming up to

13:52 the point where they go on this, they were going on this cruise.

13:57 She'd been able to get herself an apartment.

13:59 So she'd saved up enough money that she was able to put a well.

14:03 I believe her parents may have assisted greatly in terms of the

14:07 purchase of this apartment. Right.

14:10 She she wasn't renting, she was purchased.

14:12 Oh, that's interesting. OK, I didn't really, I didn't

14:14 read that and. I I believe she wasn't the only

14:17 like it wasn't all her money maybe and purchased that

14:21 apartment very close to her family's home.

14:24 So they all lived in a very, very small sort of.

14:27 It's still in the same county. Yeah.

14:29 In Virginia, Yeah. And.

14:31 She was only working like at a steakhouse, yes.

14:34 So I don't know that, you know. I think she was working at a

14:36 steakhouse at night and then like during the day coaching

14:39 like. Kids like she wasn't earning

14:40 enough money to me, Yeah, to get a house deposit.

14:42 And I don't believe it was full time.

14:44 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, she was about to

14:46 start a new job when she got back from the trip.

14:48 She was or she'd arranged her. That's right, like which was

14:50 sounded like more of AI don't know it was a time role that

14:54 sort of stuff at a computer that her uncle.

14:56 Owned. So again, we will get to this a

15:01 bit later on because I find that a very interesting detail as

15:04 well. Yeah.

15:05 So, yeah, so I guess IVA and Ron, look, the way that they are

15:12 portrayed in a lot of things that I have watched and listened

15:16 to is that they were an incredibly close family.

15:21 You see all of them. So IVA, Ron and Brad Bradley,

15:26 should we just call him Brad Bradley?

15:28 Bradley the entire. That's all he can be known as,

15:30 Yeah. Are interviewed in the Netflix

15:34 documentary and then you can find countless interviews with

15:36 them because they have on to the NTH degree in getting Amy's

15:41 story out there over the years. And so look, I find I look at

15:46 Ivor's face in that in the interview in the Netflix

15:50 documentary, and I just want to cry.

15:53 My heart breaks because they, you know, they, what they say is

15:58 that they were such a close knit family.

16:02 Brad and Amy were best friends. They looked out for one another.

16:06 They were so close. He was even dating at this time,

16:09 he was dating a girl who was actually Amy's friend.

16:12 So like the three of them then we sort of became a bit of a

16:15 three. Not must you use the word

16:16 threesome 'cause that sounds like really weird.

16:18 But like, yeah, they, you know, paled around together, all the

16:21 three of them, that sort of stuff.

16:22 So they were very tight, like a siblings.

16:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But had really, like, good

16:28 social lives and that kind of thing.

16:30 Yeah. But as a family unit of four,

16:32 they were very, very close and did a lot of things together.

16:36 Did everything together. Yeah.

16:37 And you look at that from the outside and you think, Oh my

16:39 God, how idyllic, like how lovely.

16:42 And Brad, even Brad Bradley even says in a lot of the interviews

16:45 that he's like, we were the family that people envied.

16:48 We were the family that people wanted to be a part of or to

16:50 have a family just like. And you know, he said their

16:55 childhood growing up, there was nothing that happened that no

17:00 tragedy, no trauma. No, you know, it was just so

17:04 normal and great and happy and all of those things.

17:11 Yeah. So we come to the to the time

17:13 now where Ivor and Ron are working for an insurance

17:16 company. And this is back in the day

17:19 where bonuses would be amazing. And instead of getting a

17:24 financial bonus, I guess they were this company had incentives

17:28 and it was a holiday every year. And Ivor and Ron had qualified

17:32 before they'd met sales targets. That meant that they were able

17:35 to go on other trips with with this insurance company.

17:39 But this particular year in 1998, they were gifted A7 day

17:44 cruise to the Caribbean, Caribbean, Caribbean.

17:47 Which Yeah, which one do you use?

17:49 Caribbean, I think that's what we say here, but everything

17:52 you'll hear is like Caribbean, Caribbean.

17:54 So in the Caribbean, yeah. And it was a seven day cruise

17:58 aboard the Rhapsody of the Seas all.

17:59 Expenses paid, yeah. Yeah.

18:01 So they were flying from Virginia down to Puerto Rico,

18:05 San Juan, where the ship was taking, taking off from.

18:09 What's the word departing from? I don't know.

18:12 And hello, there's so much like cruise terminology.

18:17 Did you find that looking at this?

18:18 Yes, definitely that I had to let.

18:20 Go. And I'm like, hold on.

18:21 Wait, what? Oh, they mean the boat's going.

18:23 Yeah, right, right, right. Cool, cool, cool.

18:27 So any any cruisy people, we're really sorry.

18:29 Our terminology could be a bit Oh.

18:32 You aren't like a cruise person or yeah.

18:34 Yeah, I think that's very, very true.

18:36 Yeah. And anyway, so they, when they

18:39 were gifted this, it was just originally for Ivor and Ron,

18:43 yeah, to go for, for them as a couple.

18:46 But they then asked whether they could bring along Brad, Bradley

18:50 and Amy. Who were 21 and 23 at the time.

18:53 Do you think that's odd? Mm, Hmm.

18:55 OK, yeah, OK. Just I'm just double checking.

18:58 Yeah. So I don't know.

19:00 I think the way Brad described Brad Bradley describes it is

19:04 that for them, they thought maybe this was the last of their

19:07 family holidays because Amy was, you know, she was embarking on a

19:12 new career. Well, what was seen to be a new

19:15 career with a full time job. She just, well, was about had

19:19 just moved out of home. She was getting her own dog.

19:22 You know, there was lots of things that were happening that

19:24 was sort of meant she was like naturally, as everyone does,

19:28 pulling away from the family and establishing her own adult life,

19:31 right. So I think, I think it was, it

19:35 took a bit of convincing. Well, I think it would too when

19:37 I see the cabin. Oh my God, yeah.

19:39 That's what I kind of went and. The brother and sister, anyway.

19:43 We'll talk about that in one SEC.

19:44 Yeah, but basically Ron and IVA asked their boss could we bring

19:49 our kids along? And.

19:51 They're not kids that. Long Yep, Yep, Yep, sorry.

19:54 They're adults and they said the boss said Yep, absolutely

19:57 because to be honest it wouldn't have cost them that much more no

20:01 to shove 2 more bodies in that tiny.

20:03 Literally what they Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

20:05 So anyway, because of the way this came about, they both

20:10 departed Virginia. Sorry.

20:11 The four of them departed Virginia on the same day, but

20:14 not on the same flight. So Ron and IVA went first and

20:17 then I think about an hour later was Amy and Bradley Bradley's

20:22 flight, right? But Brad Bradley says that Amy

20:27 was quite apprehensive. Neither he nor her like to.

20:30 Fly like to fly, you know, like she and Amy doesn't like

20:33 heights. And yeah.

20:35 Yes. So they were both very nervous

20:37 about this. Originally like because Amy was

20:39 very like, yeah, apprehensive to even go for that exact that

20:42 reason. Like at least I don't really

20:43 like flying on it. Yeah, I don't really wanna go.

20:46 Yeah, but then also apparent, according to all of her, all

20:50 members of her family, she hated being in open water.

20:53 Yeah. So although she was a very

20:55 proficient swimmer, yeah, she did not like swimming in the

20:59 ocean. Well, give her a pool any day.

21:01 That's the thing, I know I'll come back to it.

21:03 Ocean swimming is incredibly different to pool swimming.

21:07 Absolutely, but even she just didn't like what was in no

21:10 potentially in the water. Sharks and it's even like to the

21:13 point of like, like personally, I'm an ocean swimmer.

21:16 I love the ocean. Me too, I hate rivers.

21:18 Oh no, I won't go in a river. Oh, same.

21:21 No. So I think people like, I think

21:23 they will just go, but she's a swimmer.

21:24 Yeah, it's different. There's differences and there's

21:27 things that people don't feel comfortable with, and I can

21:30 completely get it that she was not fond of open water.

21:34 Yeah, there's even a story that they tell about on this

21:38 particular trip, like this is going ahead just a little bit,

21:41 but it's it's pertinent to what we're talking about now.

21:43 She they, they went to a beach. Yeah.

21:47 And this was in Aruba, where the water is crystal clear, right?

21:51 Yeah. Apparently she walked into the

21:52 ocean to knee height and then jumped on her dad's back because

21:56 she was like, I can't go anymore.

21:57 I just don't want to be in here anymore.

21:59 Yeah. So it's not about swimming

22:01 necessarily in that respect, either.

22:03 She just didn't like being in the ocean.

22:04 No, whereas I'd be like get me there now.

22:07 Same. I will be in that water all day.

22:10 Jumping off the boat and oh Yep, loving it.

22:12 Yeah, anyway, so, so that's what basically what happened.

22:16 They stayed the night when they arrived in San Juan and the next

22:21 morning boarded the Rhapsody of the Seas.

22:23 So that was on the Saturday, March 21st in 1998.

22:26 Yeah. So the Rhapsody of the Seas is a

22:28 huge, at the time, I think it was the second biggest cruise

22:31 liner in existence at the time. I don't know. 1000 plus

22:34 passengers and yeah, is it 8800? 800 cruise.

22:38 It's a massive amount of people in a in on.

22:40 I mean, they're the, the boat is huge, but I mean, they're also

22:43 like sardines a little bit in terms of the, the space you do

22:45 get in your cabins. I mean, yeah, I've not cruised

22:48 much. I've been on a couple of little

22:49 mini, mini mini overnight. Like really not multiple days

22:52 even. And it's not my thing.

22:54 No, no, no, after I think I've probably mentioned it in the

22:58 podcast, I went on a few couple of night cruise earlier this

23:01 year and at the end of it I think I even said to you, I'm

23:04 like, I don't think it's for me. No my.

23:07 Parents love Cruise. Yeah, I've got.

23:09 Friends who really love it, Yep. But I just can't I think of

23:13 anything worse, personally. Yeah, it's just me.

23:16 And I love the ocean. Yeah, exactly.

23:18 But you don't get to be in the ocean.

23:19 No, Giant Cruise 1 isn't necessarily.

23:21 I mean, if you're going around the Caribbean, Yes, one of the

23:24 cruises, Peter and I did a cruise on our honeymoon around

23:26 the Caribbean. So all of the places that they

23:29 talk to talk about here, we've been to.

23:31 Wow. Yeah.

23:31 And it is what you think it is? It is white sandy beaches.

23:37 It is crystal clear warm water. It's just absolutely delightful

23:43 heaven. But then they're all set up for

23:46 cruise ships. These places are set up for

23:48 cruise ships to come into, right?

23:50 To spend the day, for people to spend the day.

23:53 And I think what you don't see is the stuff that happens behind

23:56 that strip of, of shops and color and fun and all of that

24:02 because people don't venture beyond.

24:04 No. So you know, we, it's, yeah,

24:08 it's set up for a certain purpose.

24:10 And yes. Yeah, and yeah, there's the show

24:13 and then there's the reality. I.

24:15 Think that's really. What you sort of, Yeah,

24:16 absolutely. Yep.

24:18 So they have boarded the Rhapsody of the Seas and there's

24:23 a photo of the four of them on the gangway on the way in.

24:25 Do you have you seen that photo? I'm sure you have.

24:27 What do you think of their expressions in that photo?

24:30 Did did it stand out to you at all?

24:33 Anything. Yeah, I don't know if it's it's

24:36 a hindsight thing or not. Yeah, you know, like.

24:38 Knowing now what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:42 It's interesting. What do you think?

24:43 I just feel like, and I actually feel like maybe this is just

24:48 Amy, this is might be just her, but I don't feel like you know,

24:53 you can smile with your lips, but not with your eyes.

24:55 Yes, yes, I that's the vibe I get from a lot of the photos I

24:59 see I. Just you get a vibe of your of

25:01 like, do you feel like I don't really want to be here?

25:03 Yeah, yeah. And my mum and dad delighted.

25:07 Very, very, very happy, very. And even Brad, like Brad Bradley

25:10 even is like quiet, you know, like, you know, eager and

25:14 excited looking kind of thing. But I don't know.

25:17 Yeah, I do sort of think with Amy, like there's something.

25:20 But is it like, and then, I don't know, are we looking at it

25:23 through a lens of, Oh, well, yeah, we're looking for

25:26 something. Yeah, I mean everyone.

25:27 I mean, God, I don't like photo photos.

25:30 Like, oh God, I'm like a bitch, you know?

25:35 So like, it's just maybe she doesn't.

25:36 And that's what I was thinking because I'm like, or maybe like,

25:39 you know how? And Peter is like this,

25:41 actually, he's like, I don't know how to smile in a photo.

25:44 Like when when my photo, like, what do I do in my arm?

25:47 Is this a nice smile? Like.

25:49 So maybe she was just awkward having a camera pointed at her

25:51 face. Yeah.

25:52 So just quickly, before they boarded the plane, at the plane,

25:55 the boat, the ship, Amy bought some postcards in Puerto Rico,

26:00 sent them back to her friends with messages like, hey, we're

26:02 here, we're about to board. We're so excited.

26:04 I'll see you in a week. Yeah.

26:07 And she also bought, I think it was like 12 rolls of camera film

26:10 because she was a bit of an amateur photographer and wanted

26:13 to thought she'd be able to capture some really beautiful

26:15 well. She wanted to like, put together

26:17 like a coffee book for her new house that she was, you know,

26:21 you're gonna be putting together, you know, moving into

26:23 a new house. And so she was like, I'll have a

26:24 coffee book table, you know, you know, coffee table.

26:27 Book table. Book Oh my God yeah that she can

26:32 put on there on there to let you know be like it was a holiday

26:35 which I think that's lovely idea and I think you'd also entered a

26:38 photography competition too I. Believe so, yeah.

26:41 Yeah, oh man, back in the days we had to buy rolls of film to

26:43 do that. And then have them develop

26:44 before you knew if they were any good.

26:46 Oh yeah, you get that film. Go.

26:48 Fingers crossed. Oh, my.

26:49 Everything was a bit overexposed or underexposed or whatever.

26:53 Exposed. Yeah, God, yeah.

26:58 So anyway, they've boarded the Rhapsody of the Seas and the

27:02 first two nights were actually at sea.

27:05 So they put pushed off from port and spent two days just on the

27:11 ship. And they, by all accounts, they

27:13 made the most of those two days and took part in all of the

27:16 activities that were offered on the ship.

27:18 That's part of the stuff that I I just literally cannot stand.

27:21 To me, too, I hear about this and I'm like, I would rather be

27:24 in my room watching a movie or at the OR at the poolside maybe,

27:33 maybe reading a book. Yeah, that that's, that'd be me,

27:36 Gus. I mean the, you know, themed

27:38 nights and shit, you can shove it.

27:42 You hate to dress up. I cannot stand to dress up.

27:45 Yeah, no, not my thing at all. Even like, even just like the

27:48 formal night. Like my favorite thing I've ever

27:50 been told on holidays, right, was when we were shown to our

27:53 room in this very nice place when I was overseas.

27:55 And I said to them, like, you know, the restaurants and things

28:00 were a bit further over from where our cabin was, had to walk

28:02 fair distance. You know, you get little like

28:04 buggy things and that. And I said, oh, like you need to

28:07 wear shoes all the time in the like when you're in the buggy

28:10 and stuff. And he's like, your holiday,

28:13 don't wear shoes if you don't want to wear shoes.

28:15 I went, well, I know when we get to the restaurant, whatever,

28:17 it's your holiday. I went what?

28:21 And he goes, no, like whatever this was, it was a it was a

28:24 fancy place. And I was like, oh, I'm this,

28:28 this is the kind of fancy I like that I I roll.

28:32 Yeah, I do what I want to do. Could.

28:33 You go to a restaurant without shoes on.

28:35 I did. Because I did that I could.

28:38 I loved it. Because I fucking hate shoes.

28:46 I love it. Yeah, I love it.

28:47 So as opposed to a dress up, you prefer a dress down?

28:51 Trackies Songs. Yeah, whatever, whatever,

28:55 whatever goes. He's your holiday.

28:57 Oh. Yeah.

28:59 I and I was like. Yeah, yeah, I'm making the most

29:01 of this. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

29:02 Because you. Wear whatever you want.

29:04 And yeah, yeah. And so I was with it.

29:06 I went, what, do I have to wear a shirt?

29:08 And he's like, no, for a holiday.

29:12 He's like, yeah, OK, best ever. Love it, love.

29:15 It So yeah, I don't want your formal night.

29:17 Yeah, I just want to be on holiday.

29:19 Yes. Yeah, Yeah.

29:20 That's comfort and relaxing. Yeah.

29:23 Look, Amy and Brad Bradley had actually taken, you know,

29:29 advantage of a lot of the offerings to the younger crowd

29:34 although there. Was a much of A younger crowd.

29:36 I was gonna. Say that although there weren't

29:37 many of them it it did mean that they met.

29:39 I guess they met most of the other young people on board.

29:42 Exactly. They were.

29:43 It was kind of like being beacons of light to each other

29:46 of like, where are my people? Well, you're under the age of

29:49 50. I'll.

29:50 I'll go and strike up a conversation with you.

29:53 Yeah. And according to family and even

29:55 people from the cruise, Amy was really friendly.

29:59 Yeah. He would go up and talk to

30:00 people and make friends and and certainly wasn't one to sort of

30:05 shy away from social interaction.

30:08 As they say, unfortunately, like, you know, people who light

30:10 up a room, things don't, you know, good things don't come to

30:12 those people, do they? Yeah, for always says there's

30:14 people who disappear or whatever, get murdered then.

30:16 Oh, she lit up a room. So I will never light up a room,

30:19 OK? I think that's just something

30:22 people. Say I know, but I think they

30:24 genuinely meant it about her. Like she sounded like she was

30:26 someone who with. And again, I have to say, just

30:30 because someone does that in person doesn't mean there's a

30:33 whole lot of stuff underneath. So I don't think we can take for

30:36 granted that everything was fine because she could walk into a

30:39 room and be overly social. That doesn't mean that's who you

30:43 are at your core. So but yes, according to

30:45 everyone she was someone who would arrive at a party and be

30:48 center of attention at the party and have and everyone else would

30:51 have fun being with. Her, yeah.

30:53 So on this particular night, so this is, are we at the 23rd now?

30:58 Yes. Yep.

30:59 So the 23rd of of March, Yeah. In 1998, it was the formal

31:05 night. Yeah.

31:06 So during that day, sorry, sorry.

31:08 Very early that morning when they woke up, they had already

31:11 docked overnight in Aruba. Yeah.

31:14 And the four of them got off the ship and they didn't actually

31:19 have anything planned, You know, on cruises, you can book shore

31:22 excursions and stuff like that. They hadn't done anything for

31:25 Aruba in particular. So they ended up renting a car.

31:29 And I think it's like one of those Jeep, like a Jeep type

31:32 thing that didn't have a roof or anything like that.

31:35 Yeah. And they were just driving

31:36 around Aruba. Now we're talking pre mobile

31:38 phones or pre satellite navigation on your mobile

31:41 phones. Yeah.

31:43 And they were driving around. They got themselves lost in,

31:46 like, the basically in the desert of Aruba.

31:48 Yeah. And anyway, eventually found

31:51 their way to the beach, which is where I was telling you about

31:54 how Amy hopped on her dad's back because she didn't want to go in

31:56 the water there. Yeah.

31:58 And anyway, apparently they got back to the ship at whatever

32:03 time and they were all exhausted and probably had heat stroke to

32:07 be honest with you because they were roasting in the sun all

32:09 day. But yeah, apparently Brad

32:10 Bradley said he was so sunburnt. Like, yeah.

32:13 And so they went back to their rooms, had a bit of a disco nap

32:16 at, I think he said that this was about 4:00.

32:19 And then it came time eventually for them to get ready for a

32:23 formal night, which was happening that night.

32:26 Meg's worst nightmare. So the Bradley's cabin.

32:30 I'll just give you a bit of a rundown.

32:32 So you and I both actually found the same.

32:34 We were talking about this just before we hit record.

32:36 We actually found the same infographic about it.

32:38 Because not on our socials. Yeah, please do, because it is

32:42 like quite intimate. Like.

32:45 For four adults. My parents are like cruising and

32:48 they often will tell me about their room, like when they go

32:50 and I, I, they're always so small.

32:55 Like you've got, I know my mom's always talked about, you know,

32:57 shuffle along the side of the bed like, you know, like get out

32:59 to like the bit where you can walk around the bed then and

33:02 right, you know, there's never a hell of a lot of room in these

33:04 things. So then you've got four people

33:06 in one of these rooms and four adults.

33:08 Adults one. People where would they like, I

33:10 don't even know where their luggage would have gone.

33:11 So basically you walk, walk into the door, in through the door,

33:15 swipe card access to the door. They all had their own key

33:18 cards. So it's actually going in

33:19 obviously, but obviously not coming out.

33:21 Yeah, and it didn't track like even when the doors opened or

33:23 anything like that on the inside.

33:25 It just was when a key card hit it to open it.

33:27 Yeah, on the right hand side there was a bathroom and then

33:31 there was a bed and then a pull out couch that Amy and Brad

33:38 Bradley were sleeping on. Oh, kill me now.

33:41 Tiny. I got virtually inches from the

33:44 pull out bed was the door to the very small balcony that had a

33:49 tiny little, I'm gonna call it like a little coffee table or

33:54 side table. Yeah.

33:55 And then two upright chairs. Yeah.

33:59 On the balcony. Oh.

34:00 So yeah, upright chairs. They were upright chairs.

34:02 I don't know if they could then be, you know how sometimes you

34:05 can, they have the things on them and you can lean the

34:08 documentary in furs. It's more of a lounge chair,

34:11 doesn't it? It?

34:12 It absolutely does. And I did push that in many

34:14 places where I was reading things kind of going is it all,

34:17 isn't it? So I haven't seen photos of the

34:20 chair but I did look into this because I thought the same

34:23 thing. Like was it a lounge chair?

34:25 But there wouldn't have been space to have two.

34:27 Lounge chairs on that balcony, I felt like the space didn't

34:30 accommodate it, but then a lot of places refer to it being a

34:33 lounge there and I'm like, I just don't buy it.

34:35 Don't believe so. No, I'm not saying that the

34:38 chair, the back of the chairs couldn't recline, but they

34:40 weren't like full sun lounge. Yeah, if you know what I mean.

34:44 Yeah, Yeah. So, all right, so that gives the

34:48 layout of the room. They're getting ready for their

34:50 formal night now, and it's formal.

34:57 Brad Bradley is wearing a tuxedo.

34:59 Yes, yeah. Black bow tie.

35:02 They have the ship's photographer well.

35:05 Because I mean, because back in the 90s and even early 2000s,

35:10 this really goes to really that anywhere you went touristy, I

35:15 remember going like going through like New York was bad

35:17 for everywhere we went there. Any like tourist place you'd go

35:22 before you entered into the actual place you were going,

35:24 you'd have to get a photo taken and then and then you'd try and

35:28 follow it to at the end. I mean, the amount of times I

35:30 got to the point where because I just I mean, I don't like a

35:31 photo of myself at the best times and I couldn't and I

35:34 couldn't give a shit about having a photo with a fucking,

35:36 you know, digitally enhanced like image at the back of you

35:39 like and. Stuff.

35:40 Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I'll be like, I was just

35:42 can we go around like, let's just go on.

35:44 I'm not gonna buy it. So, you know, and we, we'd avoid

35:46 the, you know, the lineup of that area because, yeah, these

35:49 places, they that's how they make money.

35:50 Like, I mean, and on a cruise ship though, you know, they've

35:53 got the corner market cornered. They'll they'll try anything

35:55 like get money out of you. Yeah.

35:57 That there'd be photographer taking the photo that then, you

36:00 know, after the fact, you go and you find your photo and you

36:02 purchase it. Oh, kill me now.

36:04 Oh, fuck, I know. Amy was wearing a really

36:07 beautiful black, like very simple but lovely elegant black

36:10 dress. Yeah.

36:11 And so this is the other thing for people who don't know on

36:16 cruises, Well, there's, I think there's different dining

36:18 options. But I think because Ivor and Ron

36:21 were there with other people from the insurance agency who

36:26 also won the same thing. And the president of the company

36:28 and his wife. Yes.

36:30 And they would all dine together at the same time at the same

36:32 table every day. And therefore they had the same

36:35 waiter, the same busboy, the same, you know, the same people

36:39 were serving them every day. So they've gone to their dinner

36:43 that night, had a really good time.

36:46 There was a joke around the table.

36:48 So there was an incident of not an incident.

36:50 There was a during the day this particular day.

36:56 It must have been when they'd come back from being out and

36:59 about in Aruba. What a couple of the waiters

37:04 were looking for Amy and they found Amy's dad.

37:07 And they said to him, oh, where's Amy?

37:09 Where's Amy? We want to invite her to a club

37:11 tonight like. At Aruba, in Aruba, in Aruba.

37:13 So yeah, off the ship, yeah. That's exactly right.

37:16 Yeah, so and he and the dad was like, oh, I don't know if Amy

37:20 will really want to do that, but yeah, I'll let her know.

37:23 I think it was a note they handed, yeah.

37:26 And to give to Amy to, yeah, invite her to this.

37:29 Club. It's Carlos and Charlie's.

37:30 Sorry, I knew I had it written down somewhere.

37:33 I'm like scrapping through my notes.

37:35 Carlos and Charlie's now. This is the same bar that

37:38 Natalie Holloway disappeared from in 2005.

37:41 Yeah. So we'll, we'll do a, a case on

37:44 Natalie Holloway absolutely at some point.

37:45 Yes. But yeah, that's this case, sort

37:47 of it. Just kind of gives you a bit of

37:48 an idea of maybe it wasn't like the nicest of places.

37:52 Yeah. But anyway, Amy.

37:55 Have been like the place to go to like, you know what I mean?

37:57 It might have been. Doesn't mean they're the nicest

37:59 places that you know. No, that's true necessarily.

38:01 Yep, that's true. And Amy basically says, oh,

38:06 look, I'm not. I'm not to her dad.

38:08 I'm not really interested. They're a bit sleazy.

38:10 Yeah. And now, should we talk about

38:14 Amy's past relationships at this point?

38:16 Do you? Think, well, yeah, there's a bit

38:17 around that. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:20 So Amy had come out to her parents and Brad Bradley.

38:25 Of 1995. Yes, it was 3:00-ish years

38:28 before the cruise, and so it came out as being gay.

38:34 And the family, they're a very Catholic family, especially IVA,

38:41 and they didn't really take it all that well.

38:44 No, they sort of say, you know, oh, no, like, you know, of

38:47 course we love her and you know, and all these sorts of things.

38:49 And but you can sense you can sense a real well.

38:54 Ron's words were around. It was like, we didn't want that

38:57 for her, but we love we love Amy.

38:59 Like so I think there was a very much like, oh, like they just

39:04 didn't really know what to do with that information, I feel.

39:08 They said they were not happy and they were disappointed, but

39:11 it's Amy's life. It wasn't.

39:13 It wasn't what we would choose for her, but it's her life and

39:16 we loved her unconditionally. Yeah.

39:18 But then Ron also sent a three page letter to Amy's current

39:25 girlfriend at that time. Yeah, that basically outlined

39:31 his disgust in the fact that they were in a relationship and

39:35 how like he he thought that this girl had corrupted Amy.

39:39 I feel I feel interesting how he's he can he can do that and

39:43 say that to her to the girlfriend, but I feel like

39:46 that's stuff he wanted to say to Amy, you know, and he hey.

39:50 Did he? I what I don't think he did.

39:52 I think he he said it to the girlfriend, right?

39:54 To, you know, so that he didn't have to say it to Amy because I

39:57 but I love Amy. So Amy, Amy's OK, but I told

39:59 the, you know, this girlfriend's fault and putting it over there,

40:02 right? It made it less, you know,

40:04 that's not my daughter. That's.

40:06 Created this or whatever or, you know, yeah.

40:09 She had several girlfriends before she came, as before she

40:12 came out absolutely. So it wasn't her first

40:15 relationship. Woman and even the woman who,

40:18 you know, received that letter has spoken and she's on the

40:21 documentary as well. But she she has said that Amy

40:24 was the one who was keen to come out to her parents.

40:27 And I don't know that she had actually come out to her family

40:30 yet. OK, so she was a little bit

40:32 more. Yeah, you know, like it because

40:34 it was in the 90s and it wasn't as accepted as it is now to how

40:37 to do that. It's hard to imagine that that

40:39 would be such a thing, or that. I mean, I know to this day

40:42 people struggle this reaction absolutely.

40:44 But it's, I guess I, you know, thankfully it's less.

40:47 I would, I would hope so. I would hope, I mean, I hope we

40:50 get to a day where people don't have to.

40:51 Come out exactly. It's ridiculously that's even.

40:54 Like, yeah, exactly. So, I mean, yeah, as I say, my

40:59 boys can bring home whoever, whoever they bring home and meet

41:01 the family or they've found someone they love.

41:02 Like, that's great. They love that person.

41:04 Yeah. Yeah.

41:06 So I found it really interesting that he he really did let loose

41:09 in that letter, those that very lengthy letter.

41:11 And I wonder whether that's really what he wanted to say to

41:13 Amy. Yeah, I feel like he downplays

41:16 that letter in that. Big time.

41:17 In the documentary though, and I just questioned whether also

41:23 things were said to Amy about it.

41:25 Yeah, she definitely would have had an opinion of it, like, you

41:29 know, known about it. Known about opinion, yeah, yeah.

41:32 So anyway, they're they're at this formal night and you know,

41:36 the these waiters had seen the dad earlier in the day.

41:39 Oh, should we go? Sorry, go back to that.

41:41 Sorry. So yeah, she's come out as gay.

41:43 However, there is a boyfriend that's has come out in public

41:49 now. He was apparently interviewed

41:51 for the documentary and they chose not to use the footage

41:53 that they had for that. Yeah.

41:54 Which I find interesting. Yeah.

41:56 And why they did that. So there's, and this is where I

41:59 think gets a little bit murky in terms of like whether she was

42:03 bisexual or whether it was a relationship that she felt was

42:08 being forced upon her, not forced upon her.

42:10 Sounds really awful. But I guess sort of, you know.

42:12 To keep her like to meet her parentation or something.

42:15 Yeah, you know, well, she actually, you know, genuinely

42:17 lesbian and, you know, but wanting to keep the family happy

42:22 that Oh no, I'm seeing a guy like.

42:24 So I don't know. We don't know whether she's

42:27 truly bisexual because she did have a girlfriend that she was

42:31 saying that they'd had a rough time.

42:33 She'd she had cheat, like not cheated cheated, but she had

42:36 kissed another girl and they were having some issues, but

42:39 they were really trying to work that out.

42:40 And the plan was that when she was coming back from, she'd

42:43 given this girl a letter that it was quite an interesting wording

42:46 in this letter. And I found I find the the

42:48 language in it interesting that we can come back to that they

42:53 were going to plan. The plan was that they were

42:55 going to get back together when they came back from the trip.

42:57 However, it's come out now that the whole time that was going

43:01 on, she had a boyfriend. I find that all very.

43:06 Weird. It's odd.

43:07 It's very odd. Yeah, and I don't there's

43:09 certain people who are like, really like, oh, see, like, you

43:12 know, she, she wasn't lesbian. She was bisexual at best, you

43:15 know, but she was, she liked men.

43:16 Do we really? Does that actually matter?

43:21 I look and I feel. I feel for her because I think

43:23 that there's something in this that.

43:25 I think so too. Yeah, I think so too.

43:30 All right, so she's received these unwanted advances, I

43:33 guess, from these waiters who had been looking after them for

43:36 the first couple of days and of the cruise.

43:39 And even on the night of the formal night, the family and the

43:43 people they were dining with were joking that if anyone

43:45 needed anything, just get Amy to ask because it'll come quicker

43:48 and you'll probably get more of it or whatever.

43:50 Yeah, because she's certainly garnered the attention of people

43:54 on the ship, but. And men on the ship.

43:56 Not to say, you know, that shouldn't deserve the attention,

43:59 but we did say there's not many young people on the ship.

44:02 So I mean, if there's someone who's more the age of the

44:05 waiters, the waiting staff and other people who work on this

44:08 crew on a on the ship, you know, like, yeah, they're, they're

44:11 like, Oh yeah, we've got one that's like, you know, maybe

44:13 possibly within our age break. Yeah.

44:15 You know, there's 70 year olds. Yeah, that they can hang out

44:20 with. I'm not shocked at that at all.

44:22 And I think, and she's an attractive girl, and that's

44:24 right, you know, why not? They were interested.

44:26 I get it. But at the same time, if they

44:28 advances weren't wanted, she certainly had her boundary.

44:30 And yeah, put it up. Yeah.

44:33 Oh, she should did all the right things.

44:35 Yeah. So when the formal night, sorry,

44:39 when the formal dinner kind of finished after that there was a

44:42 party on the pool deck. Yes.

44:44 And it was called like under the stars or something like this.

44:48 See Party under the stars Like fucking worst nightmare.

44:51 Oh. They played Limbo.

44:54 At at around this point, I think Brad Bradley and Ron went back

44:59 to the room to start changing and I think Amy and her mum went

45:02 up to the photo to find the photos of them.

45:05 Yeah. And they went up and the

45:07 photographer. So this was the ship's

45:09 photographer said, oh, yeah, I remember taking the photos of

45:13 you because. Because there'd been an

45:15 interaction where the photographer had taken a photo

45:18 of Brad Bradley, taken an individual photo of Amy, and

45:21 then said, oh, let's have one with your boyfriend.

45:24 Yeah. And she was like, Oh no, no,

45:25 he's my little brother. The photo.

45:26 Does look quite. Oh, it looks like they could be

45:28 a couple for sure. They're holding hands and like

45:31 facing each other. It's not like a sibling photo.

45:33 I'd be putting my photo up at my brother.

45:35 Absolutely. Touch me formal.

45:38 We're notwithstanding. Like, yeah.

45:41 So anyway, that Mum, Ivor and Amy have gone up to find the

45:45 photos. And as I said, the photographer

45:47 was like, yeah, yeah, I remember taking the photos of you.

45:48 I've just developed them. They're here somewhere and they

45:52 go to where the photos were laid out and the photos of Amy and of

45:57 the rest of the family were all missing.

45:59 And he's like, that's weird because he remembered printing

46:03 them out. He remembered laying them out

46:06 and now they're not there like within half an hour or

46:09 something. Like it wasn't a huge amount of

46:11 time. I don't know how much I buy

46:12 that. Yep.

46:13 Oh, this is this is their story. Right, that's what that's so

46:17 that's the parents like story. That is not they haven't spoke.

46:22 No one's spoken to the photographer who has said that's

46:25 what I said to the family, because if you think about it,

46:28 2000 plus. Guests on this.

46:30 Can I just say though, IVA has the receipt where she asked for

46:34 the photos to be reprinted. Oh.

46:36 Yeah, I'm not saying she couldn't find them.

46:38 Oh, right there. I just questioned whether like

46:41 there's validity to like had they been printed already and or

46:45 had they not, or had they been taken by someone else?

46:47 Like really? Did the person at the shop there

46:51 like go, Oh, I, you know, like, I don't know, I, I don't 2000

46:55 people on that ship. Yeah.

46:57 And photos of, you know, what 90% of them like and that

47:01 they're dealing with, Are you going to remember putting those

47:04 specific photos on the shelf and be like, you know, oh, they were

47:08 there a second ago. Like I just, I don't know how

47:11 much I buy into that. OK, yeah, OK.

47:14 I'm sort of a bit like if you plonking them out on that shelf

47:18 for not really paying attention. You've been seen 2000 last week

47:21 when they had another 2000 on the ship.

47:23 I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I get that.

47:25 But this photographer had not long taken the photos of them.

47:30 Yeah, but still, it's a lot of photos.

47:32 Yeah, but it wouldn't have been 2000 people in one go.

47:36 You know they all have different seating times, but.

47:38 Yeah, but he they would have done all those seatings.

47:40 Probably by then, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

47:43 I I, I think it's that whole thing is a bit suss.

47:46 And the fact that she's got the IVA to this day has the receipt

47:50 that says that the photos had to be reprinted.

47:53 I think, I think that leads gives a bit more weight to to

47:58 it. We can discuss this later.

47:59 When we talk about our theories. So all right, they've then gone

48:03 back down to their cabin to get changed for the formal, changed

48:07 out of their formal gear and into like more casual stuff so

48:12 they can go to the party under the stars, AKA Meg's worst

48:14 nightmare. And so they're in the I mean,

48:20 even just how would you get changed in a room with four

48:22 adults, you know, and like the bathroom is.

48:25 The showering, the the getting changed, all of it.

48:28 I'm like in this tiny little room, let alone the fucking

48:31 snoring. You'd have to take some really

48:35 heavy duty earplugs. So I mean the the eventual

48:39 outcome of this night and not I mean in terms of where they all

48:42 end up sleeping kind of stuff, I kind of go, yeah, I get it.

48:44 Yeah, me too. Me too.

48:47 Yeah. So all right, now they all go

48:52 up. The four of them go up, get

48:54 changed. They go up to this party under

48:55 the stars. I think by this stage, it was

48:56 about 10:30 or 11:00 at night. And what they noticed is that

49:01 there were a lot more people at this party who they assumed had

49:05 boarded from Aruba. Yes, they weren't passengers.

49:09 There was a a a band that they had brought on specifically.

49:13 Calypso Band. Yeah, but then they seemed to be

49:15 just like other locals. Who on the ship as well, Yeah.

49:19 We're not quite sure what for. No, there was certainly.

49:22 I think some people said they were like, it was almost 90

49:25 people, yeah. And who were just like, coming

49:27 on to enjoy the show, like kind of stuff.

49:29 OK, yeah. They weren't there with the with

49:32 the band necessarily. It was just they were local.

49:34 Imagine that they would just let people on the ship without.

49:38 I can back in the 90s. Yeah, pre it would happen now

49:40 there's. No way it would happen now.

49:43 Yeah, but I can see that happening.

49:45 Yeah, OK. When I think about travel back

49:47 in those days. You're right.

49:49 I'm thinking about it from a Yeah, a 2025 lens, not a 1998

49:54 lens. Yeah.

49:55 OK. So anyway, the the calypso band

49:59 Blue Orchid are playing and having a really good time.

50:02 Everyone's having a dance and, you know, having some drinks

50:07 and, you know, having a party. And there's video of this party

50:11 and people are doing the conga. They're.

50:12 Yeah. You know, it is very, very

50:14 lively. Yeah.

50:15 There's a limbo competition. Who wins the limbo competition,

50:18 Meg? Brad Bradley?

50:21 Yeah, he does. Oh, man, how embarrassing.

50:24 Imagine that being your legacy of the cruise.

50:26 I won the limbo competition. Team and he got a crown.

50:29 Yeah, because you were like the youngest person there by far.

50:31 No one else's knees would be able.

50:33 To do that was limbo. Yeah, So good on you, Brad.

50:38 Brad Bradley, that is 1 to take. And yeah, anyway, he got this

50:42 like gross crown. Yeah, wearing it, gave it to Amy

50:47 to wear for a little bit. And then they, what he noticed

50:51 over, you know, the other side of the party is that Amy was

50:54 actually talking to two women. So two women who had not been on

50:58 board beforehand, they presumably come on board with

51:03 this group of people from Aruba who know.

51:07 We don't know, but there were two black women.

51:11 They were both dressed identically so they had these

51:14 Navy blue skirts and light blue short sleeved button up shirts.

51:18 So in like a uniform. Yes, So they don't know like

51:22 I've heard speculation that it could have been like were they

51:25 police officers? Were they like, I don't that

51:28 people don't know they they weren't descript.

51:31 I think if you're a police officer somewhere, your uniform

51:34 would say police. Yeah, but.

51:35 Even in, you know, language. Even in Aruba.

51:38 Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

51:40 But anyway. And apparently the conversation

51:44 between Amy and these two women was really jovial, like they

51:47 were laughing and having a good time and.

51:50 But she talked to them for over an hour.

51:53 And then IVA and Ron decided, oh, fuck this shit, I'm going to

51:58 bed. Yeah, it's really.

51:59 I'm really tired. And the calypso band had

52:03 finished playing at this point. I think they finished playing

52:05 just after midnight. Yes.

52:07 And Ivor and Ron walked over to Amy, who was talking to these

52:11 women. And then they say as soon as

52:14 they walked over to Amy to let her know that they were going

52:16 back to the room, the women kind of shut down, stepped away and

52:22 didn't say a word. And they just thought that was a

52:24 bit odd. And anyway, but didn't really

52:28 think that much more of it. They've gone back to their room

52:31 and gone to bed. Bradley and Amy continue the

52:37 night. There's a nightclub on the ship

52:41 that's on the top level I believe and they it's called

52:47 like the Viking Club or something like.

52:49 That yeah, the Viking Club. Yeah, and.

52:51 Should we just say sorry like at that 1:00 time too when the

52:53 parents went off to bed? The ship also departs Aruba, so

52:58 anyone who was on the ship from Aruba would have exited at that

53:02 point. So should have whatever.

53:05 Yeah. So they there was like a

53:06 midnight buffet that sort of people went to from that party.

53:09 And then, yeah, about 1:00 AM, the the ship departed Aruba to

53:13 head toward Curacao. The other thing that I think is

53:16 probably worth noting as well is that all crew had to be back in

53:19 there unless they were working, had to be back in their crew

53:23 quarters by 1:00 AM as well. That was mandated.

53:25 By the ship, yeah. So I'm talking the calypso band

53:29 and all of that. So yeah, they finished playing

53:32 at 12:00. They've then got about an hour

53:34 to go and have a drink, do what they wanted to do before they

53:37 the curfew was implicable. You mean the blue orchid?

53:40 Blue Orchid. That's what I meant.

53:42 What did I say? The calypso banned because they

53:43 would have exited the boat OK. I thought they were the same

53:47 thing. No, no, sorry, no.

53:49 So the Calypso group were who'd come on from Aruba.

53:52 Oh, OK. But the ship's banned was the

53:55 Blue Orchard. OK, yeah, sorry I've got myself

53:57 mixed up. Yeah, they've gone.

53:59 So everyone's kind of then departed from this deck into the

54:04 Viking Ware. 24 hour nightclub isn't it?

54:06 No, it closed at 3:00 AM. I've seen it written, yeah,

54:09 everywhere that it was a 24 hour nightclub, 24 hour nightclub.

54:12 But someone somewhere else I saw that it closed at 3:00.

54:15 My sorry open pretty early in the morning.

54:16 Or maybe it is 24 hour and just save people live.

54:19 Left places it was 24 hours. Yeah, same.

54:22 Yeah. But then I think Brad Bradley

54:24 says that it closed at 3:00. I think no.

54:27 I've heard him say it in in the interview that it was a 20. 4

54:29 hour. Oh, OK, All right.

54:30 Maybe I've got which head to me wasn't quite right.

54:33 I mean, yeah, 24 hour nightclub. Is that what we need?

54:37 Well. There's one in Melbourne, I've

54:39 been there a few times. At 3:30 in the morning?

54:44 Well, that's the only time you'd go to a 24 hour nightclub.

54:46 Oh no. There are people there in the

54:49 middle of the afternoon like Which?

54:51 Oh, weird. Yeah.

54:52 Anyway, So what they also, sorry, just going back before

54:56 they go to the nightclub, Amy is also seen talking to a member of

55:02 the Blue Orchid band called Alastair Douglas.

55:04 He went by the name nicknamed Yellow because apparently at

55:07 some point he had yellow hair. Yeah.

55:09 OK. He yeah.

55:13 They were seen chatting after the set and then they've all

55:16 gone up to to the Viking. Amy orders a beer there.

55:21 We know that for sure because she ordered it on her card, a

55:24 light beer. She was according to where did I

55:27 write this quote? There's a quote about that.

55:30 Brad Bradley says she was a Miller Lite and Marlboro Lights

55:33 kind of a gal. Okay, okay.

55:37 She did say that she could hold her drink more than he could,

55:39 but they but wouldn't consider them drinkers.

55:42 Yeah, they're not heavy drinkers, but she she could

55:44 definitely drink a few more than he could like.

55:46 But if you're. Ordering light light beers.

55:47 I mean this is it. You could probably drink them

55:49 most of the night and not really get too.

55:51 Yeah, so, yeah. So now we're at the Viking Club

55:56 and they have all having a bit of a dance.

56:00 The other thing we have haven't mentioned yet as well is that

56:03 there was actually another film crew on the ship at the time.

56:07 Yeah. And these were, they were a

56:09 private film crew that were hired by another company who was

56:12 there on an incentive trip for their employees.

56:15 And this private film crew were hired to take footage of the

56:19 employees and then put together a video presentation at the end

56:22 of the cruise to show everyone how much of a great time

56:25 everyone had. And, you know, I guess make

56:28 whatever, make the most of this. So this private crew were going

56:31 around filming random bits and pieces throughout the entire

56:35 seven day period and going back editing things in their room and

56:40 whatever. And so they were actually at the

56:43 Viking Club that night or that very early morning, and they

56:47 caught footage of Amy on the dance floor dancing with Yellow.

56:51 Yeah. And they're having a good old

56:53 boogie. I mean, how like it's if Amy had

56:58 never gone missing, we would never have had to have seen that

57:00 footage and no one would need to be any the wiser.

57:05 No, but the whole world has now seen that footage and you just

57:08 think, oh God, I just hope I never go missing.

57:12 No, don't feel me dancing. Dancing.

57:15 Yeah, anyway. And it's kind of hard because

57:17 you can't really hear the music in the footage either.

57:20 So it's just, it's like when you see movies being made and

57:23 without the sound. Yeah, put to it.

57:24 Yeah, put to it, yeah. And everyone's like dancing to

57:27 nothing like. You have no beat.

57:29 Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right.

57:31 Or try to keep different timings, yeah?

57:33 So Amy's seen dancing with Yellow, and then later on she's

57:36 seen dancing with someone else in the in the footage as well.

57:40 According to Brad, he feels like he needs a bit of fresh air and

57:45 he goes outside to the pool deck, which is just, I think,

57:47 oh, not even the pool deck, sorry, just a deck which is just

57:50 outside of the the nightclub. Yeah.

57:52 And he sits there for about half an hour, gathers his thoughts.

57:56 I think he was talking to a couple of.

57:57 Girls a couple of. Girls.

57:58 Yeah. And then he decides at 3:30 or a

58:01 bit before 3:30 AM, yeah, to go back down to the room.

58:05 He doesn't tell Amy he's going back to the room.

58:07 He just goes. His key card is swiped at their

58:12 door at exactly 3:35 AM, and then Amy's key card was swiped

58:19 literally exactly 5 minutes later. 34503 Sorry, Brad.

58:24 Brad's key. Brad, where is at 3:40?

58:26 Oh, OK. And then hers is at 3:45.

58:28 OK, so it's 5 minutes apart. Yeah.

58:30 That they were. Yeah.

58:32 That their key cards were swiped.

58:34 Yeah. And Brad said that he when he

58:36 got into the room, he actually went straight out to the balcony

58:40 because to have a cigarette. Yeah.

58:42 And kind of calm down, I guess, wind down from the night.

58:45 Yeah. And then, lo and behold, Amy's

58:47 there. So she's out there having it

58:49 there, having a smoke together, having a chat, talking about the

58:52 night. Brad Bradley claims that Amy

58:56 said that she was dancing with Yellow and that Yellow had tried

58:59 to touch her chest and it made her feel really uncomfortable,

59:02 but she wasn't distressed by it. She was just kind of telling

59:06 him, oh, it was like, a bit creepy.

59:07 Yeah. I didn't really like it.

59:09 Yeah. Brad Brad sort of his opinion of

59:11 sort of like how it was said was that it was a just a passing

59:14 comment of like, oh, this happened like kind of thing.

59:16 And neither of them. He said he was a very protective

59:18 brother, but it didn't give him the, you know, all I need to go

59:20 and, you know, speak to this guy.

59:22 Can I? Imagine looking at Brad Bradley,

59:24 Yellow and looking at Brad. I don't know that that would

59:27 have gone down. No, but he was definitely like,

59:29 you know, he goes. I didn't think anything of it

59:31 that, you know, you've it just yeah of it.

59:33 She had, she had handled it like kind of thing, you know?

59:35 And I was dealt with. She could handle her own.

59:37 Like, I feel I did get that sense from listening to like,

59:40 even her friends, you know, I think she was, you know, very.

59:45 She wasn't a shrinking Violet. No, no.

59:47 Yeah, she knew she had a boundary and yeah, she.

59:49 And that was that was that. No.

59:51 Thanks mate, off you go. Brad then says that he decides

59:58 to go to bed. Yeah.

59:59 And Amy said that she was feeling a little unwell and

1:00:04 wanted to sort of sleep out in the fresh air on the balcony.

1:00:06 Fresh air. Yeah.

1:00:07 Fresh air on the balcony. So two things here.

1:00:12 We know from her card and her purchases throughout that night

1:00:16 that in eight hours she'd had seven light beers that she'd

1:00:20 purchased. Yes.

1:00:21 We don't know if anyone else had bought her drinks or put

1:00:25 something in a drink. Something in a drink.

1:00:26 We don't know. We don't know that we know for

1:00:29 sure that she had seven light beers over 8 hours.

1:00:30 So what? She wouldn't have been drunk.

1:00:32 No, that's yeah, yeah. We also know, obviously, that

1:00:37 she came back the time of the time that she came back.

1:00:42 We know roughly the time Brad went to bed.

1:00:45 Now. He said he went to bed because

1:00:47 he was like, Oh my God, we've got to get up.

1:00:49 They were on their way to Curacao and they decided, I

1:00:54 think they were deciding whether to go jet skiing or go on a

1:00:57 glass bottom boat. Yeah, they knew they were

1:00:59 docking really early. So they were like, and they had

1:01:01 to have breakfast by a certain time because of the docking.

1:01:03 Like it, it impacted those sorts of things.

1:01:05 Yeah, I think they were serving breakfast from 5:30 AM, so they

1:01:09 so. That people could exit the boat

1:01:10 and get doing their day like. Yeah, and actually make the most

1:01:13 of the day. I'm sure some of the shore

1:01:15 excursions probably would have been that entire day.

1:01:17 Exactly. So they Brad goes off to sleep

1:01:21 in the pull out couch and Amy's, you know, falling asleep on the

1:01:27 well, on the chair in the balcony.

1:01:31 Yeah. When Brad goes into the room, he

1:01:33 shuts the door, the balcony door, and goes off to sleep.

1:01:37 Yeah. At 5:30 AM, Yeah.

1:01:41 Ron wakes up and just enough to sort of be like, oh, is everyone

1:01:46 here? And he sees Brad in the bed next

1:01:48 to him, because he would have. Been like oh.

1:01:50 Pretty much like. Right up against his face.

1:01:51 Like not. A lot of space between them.

1:01:54 No. And then he's like, oh, where's

1:01:56 Amy? And then he said he sees her

1:01:57 from basically the knee down, sees her outside.

1:02:01 Yeah. So he's like, OK, fine.

1:02:04 Goes back to sleep, kind of been that deeply, but goes back to

1:02:09 sleep because at six, AMI think he wakes up and he notices that

1:02:15 Amy's gone now. She's not on the balcony.

1:02:19 The door is, According to him, 10 to 12 inches open.

1:02:23 Open just a smidge. A smidge and her Birkenstocks,

1:02:28 her shoes that she'd been wearing most days were on, were

1:02:32 still outside, but her cigarettes and her key card and

1:02:36 lighter and lighter were gone. Yeah, so he's like, oh, maybe

1:02:40 she's gone to. What she's pull into port, you

1:02:44 know, kind of thing, which sounds.

1:02:45 Makes sense coffee. Like, sober up a bit, if that's

1:02:48 kind of what he was thinking. And he noticed too, that she the

1:02:51 shirt that she the T-shirt she like had on the night before,

1:02:53 like the yellow top, you can see her in the in the nightclub

1:02:56 wearing that was on the back of a chair inside inside.

1:03:00 So he'd assumed she'd gotten changed that, yeah, she was

1:03:03 wearing obviously something different, but yeah.

1:03:06 Then he thought, I'll go check and wait, go find her around the

1:03:09 around the ship and join her. Yeah.

1:03:13 He looks around the ship for an hour, yeah, and can't find her.

1:03:17 About half an hour after he started looking for her, he

1:03:21 encountered a security officer. And he said to the security

1:03:25 officer, oh, look, I can't find my daughter, which is unusual to

1:03:30 him. He was.

1:03:31 And the security officer basically said to him, keep

1:03:34 looking and if you can't find her, then you need to go to the

1:03:41 purse's office to sort of report anything.

1:03:43 I don't even think they got to that part of the conversation

1:03:46 actually. Ron keeps then looking for about

1:03:50 1/2 an hour more and then he's like holy fuck, panic stations.

1:03:54 I can't find her. I'm going to go back to the

1:03:56 room. I guess he probably went on.

1:03:57 Maybe she's gone back to the room and we've missed each other

1:03:59 somewhere. He goes back and he wakes IVA

1:04:03 up. So he goes back.

1:04:04 She's not there, Amy's not there.

1:04:06 He wakes IVA up and by touching her on the foot and she says IVA

1:04:12 says that she could tell immediately that something was

1:04:16 wrong. Based by the look on his face,

1:04:19 she's never seen him look like that before, which I this is

1:04:23 we're just going with what they're saying at the moment.

1:04:25 We'll talk about this. We will absolutely talk about

1:04:27 this. So Ivor gets up and they wake

1:04:32 Brad and they basically say, Brad, you stay here in case she

1:04:36 comes back. We'll go and look and have a

1:04:38 look around. So they're again looking around

1:04:41 the ship. They report her missing at seven

1:04:43 O 2. So when they report her missing

1:04:45 though, and I kind of get this, they reported missing and they

1:04:50 say our daughter, 23 years old, is missing.

1:04:56 And they're like, oh, Yep, just keep looking.

1:04:59 Maybe keep looking. And they actually say to them

1:05:02 and then as well look for another half an hour.

1:05:05 If she's still not back, come back and we'll we'll notify

1:05:09 whoever the head of security is. Yeah, they do that.

1:05:13 They come back. Because they kept, they sort of

1:05:15 said, we don't want to put out an announcement this hour of the

1:05:17 morning. Like people are still sleeping.

1:05:19 And any announcement they were going to put out was going to go

1:05:20 into the rooms as well as the general, you know, area areas,

1:05:24 the common areas. So I can understand that a

1:05:27 little bit. I cannot be, especially for a

1:05:28 grown adult. You're not looking for a child.

1:05:30 I, I I. If it was a 7 year old, yeah.

1:05:32 Absolutely, Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:34 But they were sort of like, oh, you know, she's probably just,

1:05:36 you know, at a different bar or I, I can understand this

1:05:39 thinking in me, too. So they were like, yeah, no,

1:05:41 just keep looking like, you know, come back to us later, but

1:05:43 we don't want to A call out just yet and alarm people who are in

1:05:48 bed still. Yeah.

1:05:50 Yeah. And the ship was pulling into

1:05:51 Curacao at this time. So I think 720, the ship

1:05:55 actually docks. Yeah.

1:05:57 No, sorry. 6:00 AM they docked. Yeah, yes.

1:05:59 So they do pop the gangway down at and I think they opened the

1:06:03 doors at about 7:00. 2720 they opened the doors so we're

1:06:06 talking, you know, like they've literally they've reported a

1:06:08 missing at 702 being told, you know, like just keep looking,

1:06:11 you know, we're not putting out an announcement.

1:06:13 And so they're sort of basically, they're already

1:06:15 really saying, but we need to stop people getting off the

1:06:17 ship, which I, I find that. I find that odd, too.

1:06:21 Yeah, they're like you. You.

1:06:22 You can't open the doors. You can't let people out.

1:06:24 You've got to put. Out an announcement in

1:06:25 hindsight, yes, I understand it, yeah, but that's knowing what we

1:06:29 know now like yeah. They didn't know.

1:06:30 Get it? But they didn't know like that.

1:06:31 Yeah. So I can understand the ship in

1:06:34 their take on it at the time going.

1:06:37 We need to let people do their holiday.

1:06:39 Like you need to find your daughter.

1:06:40 Yeah. There's no urgency from their

1:06:44 from the ship's behalf at this point in that.

1:06:46 And they're like, oh, well, you know, we're no, we're going to

1:06:48 open the gangways and let people out like.

1:06:50 But they're already like Ron and Ivor are like, no, no, you need

1:06:53 to keep everyone here and we need to find her.

1:06:55 And you know, yes, I do find that.

1:06:57 Interesting. I find that really interesting

1:06:58 too. At this point, they've also said

1:07:01 to Brad you need to look around the ship as well.

1:07:03 Yeah, he goes to the deck. I think it was Deck 2 where

1:07:08 passengers are departing. Yeah.

1:07:11 And he actually goes to the other side of the ship where

1:07:15 it's like this, the seaside, so not where the gangway is, but

1:07:18 the other side of the ship. And he, what he sees is a big,

1:07:22 like massive open area of the ship where they're taking off

1:07:26 rubbish and taking off whatever, like sheets and towels and stuff

1:07:30 to be laundered and bringing on fresh food and whatever else is

1:07:33 needed to replace that, probably fresh linens and stuff.

1:07:36 He finds that very to him, this is a very important thing that

1:07:42 he has witnessed. We will again get to that when

1:07:45 we discuss the theories around what's happened.

1:07:47 Yeah, but what I think is bizarre is if Ron and IVA are so

1:07:53 adamant for people not to be getting off the ship, If that

1:07:58 were me and I had that sentiment and I felt that strongly, I

1:08:01 would go and stand on that gangway and look at every single

1:08:03 person who got off because there was 1 exit point.

1:08:05 Was there only one exit? 1?

1:08:06 Because that's what's gonna say. Even if there was 3, there's

1:08:08 three of you. Each of you go and stand at an

1:08:10 exit point. I was like, how many exits could

1:08:12 there have been? There was 1.

1:08:13 So yeah, one even like 3 of you plant yourselves one either side

1:08:16 of that. Just watch everyone exit.

1:08:17 Yep. But I do understand there was

1:08:19 obviously other places where crew, oh, sorry, crew were

1:08:23 obviously doing things with people from Carousel in terms of

1:08:28 like maintenance of the ship, things like, yeah, as you were

1:08:31 just saying. And there was definitely people

1:08:34 who were crew or not crew entering and exiting that ship

1:08:38 at that point in time. Because another aspect of this

1:08:41 is that we can talk a little bit about is like the fact that this

1:08:44 in this time frame, passports weren't really like looked at

1:08:49 closely and all those sorts of things that people were able to

1:08:52 like this boat wasn't considered to be another country as such

1:08:56 that, you know, they, they would just come and go off that ship.

1:08:59 It's it was very easy for people to do that.

1:09:02 Yeah. So I know by the time I went on

1:09:03 my cruise to the Caribbean, which was in 2012, yeah, when we

1:09:07 got off the ship, they scanned our passports and then when we

1:09:10 got back on the ship, we had to scan our passports again.

1:09:13 So I'm assuming none of that happened, no?

1:09:16 I remember back in this sort of time frame, I remember being on

1:09:18 a tour a little bit earlier, 2000 still, but I'm still, I

1:09:22 mean, I remember being on a tour thing where we're changing

1:09:24 country and we literally just all handed our passports to the

1:09:27 tour guide and he went off to a centre somewhere, I don't even

1:09:32 know where all their passports came back stamped.

1:09:35 Cool. But there was no like lining up

1:09:37 that person's that passport. I mean, and it was just a matter

1:09:40 of like, oh, they stamped, I don't know, 30 passports and

1:09:43 yes, 30 people walked through. Yeah, but who was who further

1:09:46 checked to? That or anything, or that you

1:09:48 even were the. Person who was on the path

1:09:49 because I think the bus we were on like the bus then just drove

1:09:52 through, you know what I mean? Like it was there was no even

1:09:54 check of the bus or yeah, no. So I dare say this is the kind

1:09:57 of vibe, that's the vibe of this situation of like, it's just if

1:10:02 you've got 30 passports, I guess you've got 30 people.

1:10:05 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

1:10:07 Yeah, or even almost. Or even not even checking the.

1:10:09 Passcard. Yeah, you've got your key card,

1:10:11 you can come back on. I don't even.

1:10:12 Know no, I don't seem to any checks of anything like that.

1:10:16 So, I mean, at this point, I guess the ship have decided

1:10:21 that, OK, we'll put out an announcement now.

1:10:24 Yeah. And what time did that announce?

1:10:25 I think that was about 30 minutes after the gangway had

1:10:28 been. Gone down.

1:10:30 Yeah. Oh yeah.

1:10:30 Actually it was at 7:50. Yeah, right.

1:10:32 So everyone, there were definitely people who had exited

1:10:34 at that time already, but not everyone, like, you know, not

1:10:37 everyone was hankering at the bit at 7:20 to go out on that

1:10:40 gangway. And I'm sure that's the thing

1:10:42 where you go, like you could have just stood there and

1:10:43 watched you left because I'm sure they were dribbling out at

1:10:45 that hour. Yeah.

1:10:47 Not, you know, lining up. Not lining up.

1:10:49 So over the loudspeaker they said will Amy Bradley please

1:10:53 come to the purses desk. That was all there was 1

1:10:56 announcement I think Ron. No, sorry, I think IVA waited to

1:11:03 see and Ron kept going for a search around and trying to see

1:11:07 what was going on. And obviously Brad was still

1:11:09 searching too. Yeah, they yeah.

1:11:15 So at some point here too, Brad, another thing just worth noting,

1:11:19 Brad was wandering and looking for Pete for for Amy, and he was

1:11:23 approached by Yellow, who came up to him.

1:11:28 And at this point they had not yet, I believe, I think they'd

1:11:31 reported her missing, but they hadn't made the announcement

1:11:34 yet. So Yellow said to him basically,

1:11:37 oh, sorry to hear about your sister, which Brad didn't think

1:11:40 too much of at the time, but in hindsight kind of went wait,

1:11:43 wait, how did you even know that she's missing or now we.

1:11:46 Know had happened, but now we know how they know and they

1:11:49 didn't include this in the Netflix.

1:11:50 Dot No Correct no. So there's like this.

1:11:52 It sounds really dodgy like at the time, but it's.

1:11:55 It's actually not that like there was a legitimate reason

1:11:58 that. So the the way that Yellow found

1:12:01 out was because he was in his room and he got a phone call

1:12:06 from the ship security to say you were seen with Amy last

1:12:10 night. She's gone missing.

1:12:12 Have you seen her? Do you know where she is?

1:12:13 Do you know what might have happened to her?

1:12:15 Yeah, That's how he knew. Yeah.

1:12:16 Yeah. Well, is it or did he actually

1:12:20 know something? Did he know something he don't

1:12:22 know? But he definitely was there was,

1:12:23 he was evident, he was told that there was there was something,

1:12:26 you know. And it was before before the.

1:12:28 Announcement and before that announcement so and like and

1:12:30 this thing is even beyond that happening specifically I am

1:12:33 certain crew would talk there'd be mess of course on that ship

1:12:36 of. Like, you know, Can you imagine

1:12:37 the shit that they would? See, I've known people who've

1:12:39 worked on cruise ships, and apparently, yeah.

1:12:41 It would get so fucking lost. They would have great stories.

1:12:45 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, there's there would be

1:12:50 so much gossip. And so the minute and I think

1:12:52 it's well at some point it did infiltrate that into into

1:12:57 passengers, yes, that someone had gone overboard.

1:12:59 Yeah. And you can just imagine that

1:13:00 careless whispers kind of style of thing happening of like it

1:13:03 just growing from that point of like so.

1:13:05 First it was like someone fell yeah board, and then it was like

1:13:07 someone committed suicide, like, you know, so careless whispers.

1:13:11 And this all stem from someone gone missing.

1:13:13 Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's really has

1:13:15 just grown and you can imagine that going on the ship and it's

1:13:17 spreading pretty quickly. Yeah, that is without even them

1:13:20 making an announcement that something would, you know, just

1:13:22 spread like that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

1:13:25 I think it's also just really quickly noting as well, because

1:13:28 looking through this with a 2025 lens, there was no CCTV footage.

1:13:33 So it's not like they could be looking at the secure.

1:13:35 I mean, now I'm sure every common area of a ship is.

1:13:38 Probably like, you know, you're gonna move without being on

1:13:41 video on camera somewhere. Whereas, yeah, at this point in

1:13:43 time there were cameras, but very few.

1:13:46 Very few. And none of them captured Amy.

1:13:48 No, no, certainly not after the time in which they were looking

1:13:52 for. No, Certainly cameras were like

1:13:53 those ones that we spoke about from the videographer that was

1:13:56 there that we've got footage of. But like any other camera on the

1:13:59 ship, didn't pick her up. No, no.

1:14:01 All right, so Amy is still missing and the her parents are

1:14:07 incredibly panicked. The ship offer to do what they

1:14:12 call a Charlie drill. Now, a Charlie drill is

1:14:15 apparently generally used for when there's a bomb threat on an

1:14:20 on the ship. And what it means is, or what

1:14:22 they're supposed to do when they're going doing a Charlie

1:14:25 drill is every single member of the crew has a responsibility to

1:14:29 check a certain area. Yeah.

1:14:31 And they are to check anything that is bigger than a bread box.

1:14:33 Yeah. So basically to say like

1:14:35 anywhere a body could be, Yep, it would be checked.

1:14:38 Yep, yeah. Now when so at the time Amy's

1:14:42 family thought that this was had been carried out in full in full

1:14:48 and that Amy was not on the ship.

1:14:50 They, in fact, the ship's captain said to them, Amy is not

1:14:55 on this ship. Yeah.

1:14:57 So they go, holy fuck, we need to get off this ship.

1:15:01 We need to go and look for her now in Curacao.

1:15:04 We don't know where she is. She's not on the ship.

1:15:06 So we've got Where else could she be?

1:15:08 They also so the ship also then engaged with local facilities to

1:15:14 be able to get some start looking for an ocean view of

1:15:17 like whether or not yet did she go over yeah board and so they

1:15:21 do start checking the sea. Yeah.

1:15:24 And local areas in terms of where a body could wash up

1:15:27 potentially. Yeah.

1:15:28 And they, they had very good ideas of currents and roughly

1:15:31 where the ship was at the time that they like, they know Amy

1:15:35 was there at 5:30, but at 6:00 she wasn't so like around that

1:15:38 time where they would have been. Between that timeline, because

1:15:41 we like OK, if we go by the fact of so Ron has seen her sitting

1:15:46 on that balcony to when he's she was no longer there.

1:15:50 You're really looking like a 30 minute window.

1:15:53 So and so they know where the ship was based on the fact that

1:15:56 they were going through a canal like so there's they were close

1:15:59 to shore like either side of them.

1:16:01 In doing that. I was interested to look at that

1:16:03 in terms. I'll put it on again.

1:16:04 I'll put it on the socials image.

1:16:06 Yeah. Because it does show like, you

1:16:07 know, from what time they enter this canal at 5:00 AM.

1:16:10 So even if Ron was out by what time he woke up, it was pretty

1:16:15 like by 5:00 AM they were reaching that canal and entering

1:16:17 into there. So and they were and took sort

1:16:20 of the full hour to get through that canal.

1:16:21 So his half hour window falls within that hour, you know.

1:16:25 And when we're talking a canal, we're talking like you can see

1:16:28 land both sides of you. Yeah.

1:16:31 Just keeping that in mind. Yeah.

1:16:32 So 3. Miles, I think they said to

1:16:34 shore at any point, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1:16:37 Which I mean, that's, I mean that's.

1:16:39 Far that's 4. .8 K. That's far.

1:16:41 It's far. But it's also you're not in the

1:16:44 middle of the ocean. No.

1:16:47 Yeah. All right, so the Bradleys

1:16:52 decide to get off the boat and go and look for her in Curacao

1:16:57 because at this point they think that there is absolutely no

1:17:00 chance. Amy's on the ship that it's been

1:17:01 checked to the point where every stateroom has been checked.

1:17:05 Everything's been checked. What is it at that time?

1:17:07 According to them, according to Royal Caribbean, according to

1:17:09 the ship's captain at the time, Yeah, the so and as you said,

1:17:16 the ship got in contact with the Dutch Caribbean Ghost Coast

1:17:19 Guard. They did a four day search after

1:17:23 this and literally nothing showed up.

1:17:27 They used helicopters, a radar plane.

1:17:30 They really did pull out all the stops to try and find a body,

1:17:35 which I think is what they were essentially looking for at this.

1:17:37 Point. Yeah, Unfortunately, yeah.

1:17:41 Initially, the authorities suspected that Amy had either

1:17:45 fallen overboard or died by suicide because I guess that's

1:17:49 probably the most likely thing or the most common thing that

1:17:53 would happen on a on a cruise ship.

1:17:54 Yeah. But then, you know, later on,

1:17:59 investigators basically stated that there was no evidence that

1:18:01 Amy fell overboard. So it's just.

1:18:04 I know. I know.

1:18:06 I know. I know.

1:18:08 All right, so the Bradleys are in Curacao.

1:18:12 They say that they as they get off, they go to there's like A

1:18:18 at the port there, I guess there's a taxi rank.

1:18:21 There's lots of things going on, lots of people.

1:18:25 And a taxi driver says to them that was this that day.

1:18:30 No, this was a different day. Yeah, I'm getting.

1:18:32 Myself mixed up like a month later.

1:18:33 Oh. You're right.

1:18:35 Sorry, I am absolutely getting myself really mixed up.

1:18:37 Yeah. They, yeah, they just, they

1:18:39 search the island at this point and then they come back with

1:18:41 nothing. They come back to the ship

1:18:43 going, we can't find her there either.

1:18:44 Like no one's. Yeah, yeah.

1:18:45 So no one, no one on that day says they see they saw her.

1:18:48 No, not one person, sorry on that day.

1:18:51 On that day, yeah. But then the family have a

1:18:54 really tough choice to make. Do they get back on the ship in

1:18:57 Curacao and go on to the next ports?

1:19:00 Worse and Martin and. Just be sickening.

1:19:03 Or do they stay in Curacao and they actually decide to stay in

1:19:07 Curacao? Yeah.

1:19:08 And I get that. With the information that they

1:19:10 had, I think I would have made the same decision.

1:19:13 Yep. Yep.

1:19:13 And what they do? So the the president of the

1:19:18 insurance company company and his wife also disembark and stay

1:19:22 with them. They find a hotel room.

1:19:24 This bit is like a funny turn of the story.

1:19:27 But Ivar being a very devoutly Catholic woman, she wanted a

1:19:31 priest to visit her and at the hotel and they couldn't find a

1:19:36 Catholic priest. Guess what they found instead?

1:19:39 Oh, what Scientologist? Close.

1:19:45 Close what they apparently they. Apparently there was a.

1:19:48 Scientology ship close by and they got 2 Tom Cruise.

1:19:53 Came over and. I don't know what you call the

1:19:56 Scientology. I don't know what they're

1:19:59 called. Grand Pooh bar came off, came

1:20:02 off the ship and came and and apparently, according to Brad,

1:20:08 they were it was weird. They were really weird.

1:20:11 I mean, I suspect nothing else. Apparently at the point that Ron

1:20:15 got got to when he was like, all right, you guys can go now.

1:20:19 They were getting them to lie face down on the floor and were

1:20:23 like cleansing them of. The trauma or something.

1:20:28 And then Ron was like, look, I think, I think we've got enough.

1:20:31 I think like we're traumatized enough as it is.

1:20:34 If you could just please please. Leave could.

1:20:36 You just please fuck off. That'd be great.

1:20:39 And so I just thought that was a really funny, like little, you

1:20:42 know, they're like, Oh, no, no, no Catholic priests, but, you

1:20:45 know, Scientology, a couple of Scientologists will do.

1:20:47 Like surely there was someone more than.

1:20:51 I don't know. Look, that's just what ended up

1:20:53 happening. Maybe it was who they asked.

1:20:54 I I really don't know. Can't find a Catholic Prince?

1:20:57 Don't worry, we'll find a cult leader for you.

1:20:58 Yeah. Can you imagine, though, what it

1:21:00 must have felt like for them? You know, they say they, they

1:21:03 didn't sleep, they were eating. They they're like, are we going

1:21:08 to find a body? No, I'd.

1:21:11 Just be, you know, You just can't even imagine.

1:21:13 And apparently, IVA absolutely was.

1:21:15 Oh yeah, apparently she was just no, but literally like she she

1:21:21 couldn't cope. She wasn't coping.

1:21:23 No, what they end up doing so while local authorities had been

1:21:30 had been notified, they the fact.

1:21:33 So I think this is Ron's Ron and Iva's boss.

1:21:35 He tries to contact the US embassy.

1:21:38 Yeah. And it was closed.

1:21:39 Yeah, I think. It's too late at night by the

1:21:41 time they got to the hotel. Yeah, so IVA and and Ron got in

1:21:44 touch with a relative back home and they were the ones who are

1:21:48 able to connect with the FBI then and get them alerted and

1:21:51 onto this. But they still couldn't even get

1:21:53 to the island for 24 hours. Yeah, So they had a field office

1:21:56 in Saint Thomas. Yeah, but it by the time that

1:21:59 because you had to organise a private jet apply, sorry, a

1:22:02 private flight between islands because most people don't,

1:22:06 there's not regular commercial flights between islands.

1:22:09 So but they also had to the FBI had to have clearance to be

1:22:12 involved anyway. So yeah, the 24 hours was, yeah,

1:22:15 organising transport to get there and get someone there, but

1:22:17 it was also waiting for the local government at the time to

1:22:21 allow them to even be involved. Yeah.

1:22:23 So I mean, because it's, I mean, oh God, the whole idea of

1:22:26 jurisdiction, jurisdictions of what cruise ships come under is

1:22:29 just a whole ramet of bloody legal.

1:22:31 Well, I actually learned a lot about it.

1:22:33 Because so you don't. Ever want to go on a cruise ship

1:22:36 for this reason? Same so.

1:22:38 When you're docked and within 3 miles of land, you fall under

1:22:44 that country's jurisdiction. There's 12 nautical miles of the

1:22:48 of land. You're in that country's

1:22:50 jurisdiction. Yeah, I think it's as close,

1:22:51 like as far as that even. But yeah, once you're at an open

1:22:54 sea. You are actually under.

1:22:58 Well, maritime law and also the. The flag of the ship that you're

1:23:03 on. But the where that ship is

1:23:05 registered. Yes, not yet exactly.

1:23:07 So the fact of the matter is like all these like Royal

1:23:09 Cabaret Caribbean, their their head office is in Florida, but

1:23:14 that's not where the the ship is registered.

1:23:16 No, way too expensive. And then of too many legal

1:23:20 things, they have to too many. They have to pay people real

1:23:22 money, you know, to work on the ship.

1:23:24 Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, their their ship

1:23:26 actually came under Norway, so they had it registered in

1:23:30 Norway. So like others that are like,

1:23:31 you know, under Liberia and all these sorts of things.

1:23:34 So depending on wherever they would register the the boat to

1:23:37 where they could get the best, I guess you know, deal, deal in

1:23:40 terms of all that stuff that they would register the boat for

1:23:43 that That's where the the legal aspects of what law you come

1:23:46 under. Yeah is under that country that

1:23:48 you're Yep, the boat's registered to totally yeah.

1:23:51 I mean, and no one people don't understand all this stuff.

1:23:53 I don't think before cruising that like no, I mean, you don't

1:23:56 think you have to, I guess, but you should be more aware of

1:23:58 those things because you're not like as an Australian walking

1:24:01 onto necessarily a cruise ship going, you know, like it's OK

1:24:04 the. Australian The American will

1:24:05 take Australians citizen or an American citizen.

1:24:07 Yeah, I'm fine, because no, that's not the law you're in.

1:24:11 Not. Necessarily anyway, no.

1:24:14 So yeah, the FBI do get permission to board the ship.

1:24:19 And So what they do is they've obviously, they come to Curacao,

1:24:23 they interview Ron and IVA and Bradley all together first, then

1:24:29 they separate them, interview them separately.

1:24:30 They're doing that first. Separate them first.

1:24:32 You would have thought so, but then I.

1:24:34 Guess so many times passed. Anyway of separating them now

1:24:36 what's the difference? Probably, yeah.

1:24:38 And also, like, you know, IVA was so distressed and I guess

1:24:41 they wanted to get a a rough idea of what was going on before

1:24:44 they then I guess drilled down. Yeah.

1:24:47 They then decide to go and meet the ship at Saint Martin, I

1:24:51 believe. And they actually arrive before

1:24:54 the ship gets there, Yes. And so they've got a bit of time

1:24:58 there to sort of figure out their game plan, I think, and

1:25:00 try and figure out, especially the FBI, like, what's their

1:25:04 tact, Where are they going with this?

1:25:05 What are they going to try and do?

1:25:08 I can't even imagine how it would have felt for the family

1:25:11 to have left Curacao where they thought at this point Amy must

1:25:15 have been because she wasn't on the ship.

1:25:17 They get back. So anyway, they end up boarding

1:25:19 the ship in Saint Martin. You're hoping that that ship

1:25:22 arrived and the gang came down and then like Amy was standing

1:25:25 there, wouldn't you? Like oh fuck God, Oh my God,

1:25:29 yes. But no but.

1:25:31 No, that didn't happen. The FBI board the ship and they

1:25:35 start to figure out exactly what's going on, get establish a

1:25:39 little bit of a timeline as much as possible and.

1:25:43 And start find a whole heap of stuff that wasn't done properly.

1:25:45 That's for damn sure. Though.

1:25:46 Yeah, I mean the well, I think their room had been cleaned,

1:25:49 Yes, but. They hadn't been on the ship for

1:25:53 two or three nights at this time.

1:25:54 Yeah, I moved to, Yeah, yeah. So the room had actually just

1:25:57 been cleaned, which, yeah, the cleaner had come in.

1:26:00 But not only that, like many other rooms that potentially had

1:26:03 been cleaned, those sorts of areas.

1:26:05 Common space the. Common areas, all those things.

1:26:08 And it could have been a potential crime scene or a

1:26:11 potential area of interest. Yeah, gone.

1:26:13 But also that the the that the search that the crew had done,

1:26:17 that they promised the family, they had done the full search.

1:26:20 The FBI very quickly found out that that had not been done

1:26:23 correctly. And that only the common areas,

1:26:25 the bathrooms, the rooms and bathrooms had been.

1:26:28 Yeah. No, no, not even room.

1:26:30 No, no, her room, I think they looked yeah like obviously, but

1:26:33 yeah, they hadn't looked in other.

1:26:35 Rooms just seems like public. Public areas, public bathrooms,

1:26:38 yeah, like, yeah, all the common areas, basically the ship.

1:26:41 Had been checked, come the fuck on.

1:26:43 Oh my God, like if someone has which awful but hidden a body,

1:26:46 say, you know, sort of stuff they put in the common area.

1:26:49 So. You know, the photographer,

1:26:50 Chris, what's his name? Chris something or other.

1:26:53 He says Lawson's whatever. He says that he was in his

1:26:58 stateroom for basically that entire time, right.

1:27:01 And he said he had all of, he had 20, no, over 30 boxes, cases

1:27:08 of film equipment big enough to put a body in.

1:27:11 Yeah. No one ever, ever checked them.

1:27:14 No, that's crazy. So I think you know, that says

1:27:17 it all, doesn't it? Yeah.

1:27:18 He was in his room. He knows that it never got

1:27:20 checked. Let alone like, let alone do

1:27:22 carts and things like that. And that's it.

1:27:24 Those sorts of places, like where things could have been

1:27:26 hitted very easily, Yeah. That's it.

1:27:28 So fucking honestly, like, I think don't do some, don't say

1:27:33 you've done something you haven't done, because then

1:27:35 people act on that thinking that things are one way and they're

1:27:40 not. Yeah.

1:27:40 And and her family made decisions based off that.

1:27:43 Exactly. Yeah, with the information they

1:27:45 got, as I say, they made the right decision.

1:27:47 Like, you know, agreed. But I would have done.

1:27:49 Exactly. If I, if the if the information

1:27:51 was if I'd known that that ship hadn't been searched entirely, a

1:27:55 different decision might have been made, you know, so sure,

1:27:58 yeah, God awful. But yeah, I mean, the FBI, they

1:28:02 couldn't do much then because on the ship basically because the

1:28:06 room itself as it had been cleaned.

1:28:07 So they, yeah, they, they did do their own search and more, you

1:28:11 know, a lot more thorough. They did find a few interesting

1:28:14 things, I guess, but nothing of, you know, major note they found

1:28:18 that, you know, we see her shoes where, where they, you know,

1:28:20 were there. That's where they would be, had

1:28:22 been left. And they found that, well, there

1:28:24 were some marks on the railing that would suggest somebody had

1:28:28 sat there on the railing, but that's really about all they

1:28:33 found in the. Kind of hard, hard to say, but

1:28:35 yeah, marks on the railing. I mean, yeah, Yep.

1:28:38 So one of the theories, and I think this is the theory, the

1:28:41 family 100%. Yeah, they seem to be very much

1:28:45 on. This much on this on this path

1:28:48 is that, you know, there's there's known human and sex

1:28:53 trafficking networks in Curacao and Aruba, particularly in the

1:28:57 90s. I was going to say especially in

1:28:58 the 90s, yeah. So this was something that was

1:29:01 known. But you know, again, interesting

1:29:05 cruise ships, you think you know now knowing what we know now in

1:29:09 terms of the lawlessness of them, you know, the security on

1:29:11 the ship are basically. They're law on judge.

1:29:14 Purina Executioner. Yeah, that's it.

1:29:16 Yeah, So, you know, people are quite vulnerable when they're on

1:29:20 a cruise ship, aren't they? Really?

1:29:22 Yeah. And if you think like Amy was

1:29:25 drunk, was there anything else in her system?

1:29:27 We don't know because how many drinks had she actually had?

1:29:30 I mean, if even in this like trafficking theory, I guess

1:29:32 there's two separate theories of this as well in that whether

1:29:36 voluntarily she's exited the shipped the ship and been

1:29:40 abducted in some way after leaving the ship, that being

1:29:43 coerced herself like to do that or has she been it's like

1:29:47 attacking some way and taken off the shift?

1:29:49 So ship. So there's two different sort of

1:29:52 things to look at in terms like, did she want to exit the ship?

1:29:55 And then like, I don't know, for example, let's say someone on

1:29:59 the ship said, yeah, yeah, I know someone, you know, in

1:30:00 Kurosawa who can get you some good weed, right?

1:30:02 Yeah. Oh, sweet, I'll meet you and

1:30:04 we'll go and get it. Yeah.

1:30:06 And then when she's gone and done that off the ship early

1:30:08 hours of that morning, something bad's happened beyond there.

1:30:11 Yeah. Or is there the idea that

1:30:14 someone on the ship targeted her and was like, this is the one we

1:30:18 want, we're going to take her and sparked her drink, you know,

1:30:23 lured her somewhere and incapacitate her in some way and

1:30:27 physically removed her from the boat, the ship in some other

1:30:30 way? Yeah, that's.

1:30:31 But yeah. So there's two sort of theories

1:30:33 of how that it could occur. But then the idea of like the

1:30:35 trafficking, the sex trafficking in the area, it is knowing that

1:30:38 that occurs there. But there's a few things that I

1:30:42 have an issue with. Go on.

1:30:44 So she had some very distinct markings in that she shared

1:30:49 these, these tattoos, right? So she had literally every

1:30:52 tattoo that anyone in there the like 90s had.

1:30:56 Except for the Looney Tunes. Oh no, yeah, that was.

1:30:59 Definitely. Yeah, I know Looney Tunes is

1:31:01 massive too. 90s. Especially, Oh yeah, around that

1:31:04 time would have been like that would have been like space.

1:31:05 Jamming. Yeah, actually, that's true,

1:31:07 Yeah. She had like, a Tasmanian devil

1:31:10 spinning in basketball, which names basketball player herself.

1:31:13 That was, I think, on her shoulders.

1:31:15 Yeah, she had a son on her lower back, which, I mean, you know,

1:31:20 we all used to call the stamp Tran.

1:31:21 I used to always tell my friends who got those done, like in one

1:31:23 day that sun's gonna set and the sun's gonna start out of your

1:31:26 ass. Careful where you put it.

1:31:30 Very much so. You want that sunrise and you.

1:31:35 Have to have a full body lifter so your tattoo looks all right.

1:31:40 Show the Chinese symbol. Who knows what it said?

1:31:42 So. That was on her right ankle and

1:31:45 and a gecko on her like naval area.

1:31:48 Around her belly button. But she also had naval

1:31:50 piercings. Yeah, she didn't.

1:31:51 We all. With a blue like.

1:31:54 Oh, a toe pants. Toe blue toe pals again.

1:31:57 So 90, so 90. So nice.

1:32:00 Oh God I have the fucking same one.

1:32:02 Of course you did. Oh, she did.

1:32:05 Oh. God, so, yeah, there were these

1:32:07 were specific things that I I do really query like the

1:32:11 trafficking thing with the fact that one, these tattoos that she

1:32:14 was easily, you know, she had green eyes also, you know, very,

1:32:19 very distinct. Yeah.

1:32:21 That, you know, to me, if you're in that sort of thinking of like

1:32:25 that you're doing sex trafficking, are you going to

1:32:28 take someone who's very tight knit family, which was seen on

1:32:31 the ship, you know, has very distinct markings that can be

1:32:34 identified easily, you know, or are you going to take someone

1:32:38 who's a bit of a loner? Are you going to, you know, pick

1:32:41 someone out who's kind of not? But maybe they needed a young,

1:32:45 beautiful, you know, they're not going to take the 70 year.

1:32:49 Old. No, I know that, but that's what

1:32:50 I mean. Like I was simply placed to be

1:32:54 fighting somebody. Well, maybe it was

1:32:56 opportunistic. Yeah.

1:32:58 Yeah, you know, she was because, yeah, I mean, was it?

1:33:02 I don't know. Yeah, but maybe it was a crime

1:33:05 of opportunity. You know, they see her.

1:33:07 They get to a point where they can get her out on her own and.

1:33:11 It's very risky, like because she's very risky family who are

1:33:14 actually gonna miss her less. Risky than it would be today

1:33:17 though, because you think like they're not gonna be covering

1:33:20 CCTV. There's ways of getting her off

1:33:22 the ship. We're not scanning things.

1:33:23 On and off, but people are definitely gonna be like, hey,

1:33:25 where's Amy gone? Yeah, whereas someone else

1:33:28 could. Maybe not, but they could

1:33:30 disappear with that and not have, you know, so many people

1:33:33 looking for her, yes, you know, sort of stuff.

1:33:35 So yeah, but not only that people looking for her, that

1:33:38 she's easily identified. Identified.

1:33:41 Yeah, too that I just, I find all a little bit like, yeah.

1:33:45 Would that be the person they pick?

1:33:49 Yeah, yeah, just. Throwing it out there, yeah.

1:33:52 Yeah. The thing, I guess the things

1:33:56 that support that are the fact that there's been sightings.

1:34:00 Yes. Well, let's talk about that.

1:34:02 Well, there there've been quite a few.

1:34:04 Yeah. Alleged sightings because none

1:34:06 of them have been proven no so the first one was this is where

1:34:11 I got my taxi driver thing of messed up because this happened

1:34:14 on the this happened the day after a disappearance or was it

1:34:17 the month after when Brad and. A month later, they kept they

1:34:20 they went back to Kurosawa. And Brad.

1:34:22 Only Brad and Ron were wrong. Yeah, they went back a month

1:34:25 later because they were hearing, I guess, reports of things that

1:34:29 were. Stuffed like a press conference

1:34:32 while they were down there because they wanted to spread

1:34:35 the word. Spread the word and spread

1:34:36 because they were getting a lot of media attention in the US.

1:34:38 Yeah, Not so much in the Caribbean.

1:34:41 Yeah. And they really need it.

1:34:42 They needed it. Exactly.

1:34:43 So that's what made them travel back.

1:34:44 Yeah. So they went to Carousel and so

1:34:46 a month later and as they were arriving, it's not wasn't long

1:34:50 after their arrival that a cab driver came up to them and spoke

1:34:54 to them and said that he saw Amy that day, the day of her

1:34:58 disappearance. I believe that basically.

1:34:59 Oh no, no. The day after after appearance

1:35:01 on the 24th of March, he said he saw her.

1:35:04 OK. Oh yeah, that's the day that she

1:35:05 went missing. That's the.

1:35:06 Tuesday. Oh, that is OK.

1:35:07 Yeah, sorry. So on the date, yeah, on the

1:35:09 date she went missing, he apparently, supposedly she had

1:35:11 come up to his cab looking for a phone to make a phone call and

1:35:17 something else, maybe cigarettes or something.

1:35:19 Yeah, she was looking for cigarettes because when she,

1:35:21 because that was sort of kind of like, well, yeah, that'll be

1:35:22 Amy. She'd asked for cigarettes.

1:35:24 And they were mobre lot. Yes.

1:35:28 So she, he had he, yeah. And he recognised, didn't

1:35:32 recognise her at that point as in that didn't know she was

1:35:35 missing. Yeah.

1:35:36 But it was later on that he realised that all these photos

1:35:38 that we're seeing up of this girl who's missing, that's that

1:35:39 I'm seeing on the news or whatever, that's that girl.

1:35:42 He's for him. The biggest distinctive factor

1:35:45 that made him think it was Amy was her.

1:35:47 This woman had green eyes and she had an American accent.

1:35:51 Yes. And like a Southern accent.

1:35:54 And. Yeah.

1:35:57 And so that's what made him think it was her.

1:35:58 I don't think he he said anything about her tattoos.

1:36:00 I'm pretty sure the cab driver didn't.

1:36:02 No, I don't. Remember him saying anything

1:36:04 about the tattoos? But what he said is she went off

1:36:05 in the other direction. So yes, he said, go to the phone

1:36:08 that way. Yeah.

1:36:09 And she went the other way. So what was that all about?

1:36:12 Yeah. But I mean, as we said on the

1:36:15 day when they got off the bat, that ship, it was incredibly

1:36:19 busy, yes. So there are a lot of people

1:36:21 around, a lot of American accents around too.

1:36:24 So are these sightings. A lot of people have, I mean,

1:36:27 not a lot of people, but more than one person on a boat of

1:36:30 2000 passengers probably had green eyes.

1:36:33 Yeah, that too. But also, after a month, those

1:36:36 eyes could look green. I don't know.

1:36:38 Do you know what? I mean like our memories are I.

1:36:40 Wouldn't I? Don't necessarily.

1:36:41 I actually, I don't look at people and go, oh, what colour

1:36:43 are your eyes? Yeah, actually the first thing I

1:36:44 look. At well, that's what he said

1:36:46 though, 'cause it was. That's why he reckons he

1:36:47 remembers it, because it was so striking.

1:36:49 Right. The eyes were so striking.

1:36:51 OK, I don't know. Yeah, the next alleged sighting

1:36:56 was by these Canadian surfers in this was in August of 1998, so a

1:37:02 few months after her disappearance.

1:37:03 Scuba divers they. Were yeah, they were in Curacao

1:37:05 on a diving trip and they so one of them was washing off their

1:37:10 equipment after having been on a dive.

1:37:11 Now they were in a really sort of secluded part of Curacao

1:37:16 where it was called like Port Marie or something like that.

1:37:19 Yeah, where not many tourists went to, but it was a really

1:37:23 good diving spot. Yeah.

1:37:25 And apparently all that was there was 1 little shop and that

1:37:27 was it. So they've been scuba diving.

1:37:29 They were coming in, one of the men was washing his, washing

1:37:32 their equipment in the shallows of the water.

1:37:34 And he's called out to his friend and what what?

1:37:40 There were three people kind of walking past him at the time,

1:37:43 two men on the outside and a woman in the middle.

1:37:46 And as soon as the woman heard that he was speaking English and

1:37:51 had an American, you know, Canadian but American ish

1:37:54 accent, she turned around and looked at him.

1:37:57 And he like it. It struck him as being odd, the

1:38:02 way she kind of looked at him. It was enough for him to sort of

1:38:05 take notes. Yeah, he said that she looked

1:38:07 scared. Scared.

1:38:08 Yeah. So the also the way he describes

1:38:14 one of the men in particular, it could have been, I guess at this

1:38:20 point, Yellow was a suspect being interviewed by the FBI on

1:38:24 the ship. The way he describes one of the

1:38:27 men, it was basically a description very similar to that

1:38:30 of yellow. And he also described her

1:38:34 tattoos. This man, yes.

1:38:37 So he described the Tasmanian devil with the spinning

1:38:40 basketball, the Chinese symbol on her right ankle, the gecko.

1:38:43 No. Not the gecko, no.

1:38:45 It was just the I think. It was just the Tasmanian devil,

1:38:48 actually. He I think he saw her ankle as

1:38:51 well, and he also noted her green eyes.

1:38:55 Yes. So this occurred in so June was

1:39:00 in 1998 in 98, Yep. He didn't report it until he saw

1:39:04 it being it was on a program that he saw in the December of

1:39:09 the same year in 98. So I mean, yeah, spaces between

1:39:13 six months later basically before he reported it, so.

1:39:18 But he says I know it was her. Yes, so there had been photos of

1:39:26 her released, pair of tattoos had been released and also her

1:39:32 eye colour obviously like so those things had been out in the

1:39:36 media. And it was on the FBI website.

1:39:38 It was everywhere for anyone. Anyone could access that

1:39:41 information, Yes. So Yep.

1:39:44 He also says that he and his mate, so the three people went

1:39:49 up to the bar or the restaurant, whatever, the only thing that

1:39:52 was on that strip of beach and ordered a drink.

1:39:56 And he and his mate went up and had a drink as well, but they

1:39:59 left before the other three people did.

1:40:02 And he kind of really didn't think that much more of it until

1:40:05 he saw. Yeah, he sort of in a sense like

1:40:07 the other these two men that were with her really prevented

1:40:10 her from coming and speaking to them.

1:40:11 Like there was a real he felt. He felt there was some something

1:40:15 weird. A sense of something.

1:40:17 Yeah. Yeah.

1:40:17 He got a definitely good sense. Yeah.

1:40:20 Naval Petty Officer William Hefner.

1:40:23 What a name. First of all, for this bloke.

1:40:25 Yes, he, so his alleged sighting was in January of 1999, so, you

1:40:34 know, the following year. Yeah, almost a year after she

1:40:37 went missing. He was in a.

1:40:40 So he was actually on leave for the day in was he was his.

1:40:45 No, he was in Barbados. This was in Barbados.

1:40:48 He was on leave for the day as a Navy SEAL, a Navy, Navy officer.

1:40:52 He was a Navy Petty Officer, Yeah.

1:40:55 And he was coming up for retirement.

1:40:57 Yeah, he was two or three years off retirement.

1:40:59 Oh, less than that, I think. Oh, was it OK?

1:41:01 And he decides to take himself off to a brothel for the day.

1:41:04 Is completely against. The rules and.

1:41:07 Not only that, is it against rules to do that, but if you are

1:41:10 out and about, whether you'll be your day of leave or not, as a

1:41:15 member of the Navy, you go in pairs as a minimum anywhere you

1:41:18 go. He didn't, no.

1:41:20 He was on his own. Yeah, he gets to this.

1:41:24 He calls this is what? Fuck it gets me.

1:41:26 He calls it a bar. Yeah.

1:41:28 I'm like, it's not a bar, dude. It's a fucking brothel with a

1:41:30 bar. I.

1:41:30 Just wanted to go in for a beer. He's just going for a beer and

1:41:32 he's. Sorry.

1:41:33 Sorry. Yeah, that's right.

1:41:34 Sorry. He was.

1:41:35 And I just work at the front desk, All right?

1:41:37 Yeah. So he's gone in for a beer and

1:41:42 there were three girls, Is that what he said or two 2 girls?

1:41:45 No, sorry. There were two girls and a man.

1:41:48 Yeah, yes. And they were all having a chat

1:41:50 and at some point, the man and the other girl that was there,

1:41:55 they sort of walked away and were out of earshot.

1:41:58 And Amy, this is what he claims Amy says to him.

1:42:01 My name is Amy from Virginia. With that, the man comes back

1:42:07 and Amy has to stop in her tracks and sort of keep talking

1:42:09 about whatever they were talking about before to try and pretend

1:42:12 like she hadn't just disclosed who she was.

1:42:18 He leaves that brothel and she, she actually says to him, I'm

1:42:23 being held here against my will, sorry, as well.

1:42:26 Yeah, he leaves that brothel now regardless, regardless of

1:42:30 whether that woman was Amy. Yeah.

1:42:32 How the fuck, as a Navy officer can you be so callous as to

1:42:39 leave a woman who's disclosed something like that to you and

1:42:44 walk away? He would've lost his retirement.

1:42:46 What a fucking piece of shit. Yeah, I can't with that man.

1:42:53 Yeah, it was more he was worried about himself.

1:42:55 Worried about himself, worried about losing his, you know,

1:42:58 losing his benefits after he retired.

1:43:00 So when he retired in May 2002, so it was three years later,

1:43:06 yeah, he reported this to the FBI.

1:43:10 What a hero. Yep.

1:43:12 The FBI did investigate it when they went down to Barbados to

1:43:16 sort of try and figure out they they found out that the brothel

1:43:21 had actually burnt down a couple of years before.

1:43:24 Yeah, yeah. So there was nothing for them to

1:43:27 investigate, there was nowhere really for them to go after

1:43:30 that. This is it, yeah.

1:43:31 There's another sighting in San Francisco.

1:43:34 Yeah, Yep. In April 2003.

1:43:38 I find this one interesting. Yeah, that.

1:43:40 Yeah, Yep. The witness, This woman says

1:43:43 that there were three people watching, a street musician, and

1:43:49 she recognized one of those people as being Amy.

1:43:55 When the two men who were with whoever this aim, whether it was

1:44:00 Amy or not, when they were with this girl, when they noticed

1:44:03 that this woman kind of clocked eyes on them and they could see

1:44:06 that she'd figured out something, Yeah, they literally

1:44:09 fled with the woman who this witness thought was Amy.

1:44:15 Apparently the woman cast a really pleading look to this

1:44:18 woman. And anyway, she she tried very

1:44:22 hard to chase them down and she contacted the FBI and told them

1:44:26 exactly what had happened. Yeah.

1:44:28 She even provided a sketch of the two, well, of Amy, although

1:44:35 it's not great, but of the two men that were with Amy as well.

1:44:39 So she she did her best to try. And they're the two that are

1:44:42 that there's a sketch of on the FBI website, aren't they?

1:44:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah. One's like a red headed body guy

1:44:48 with yeah cool. That's cool.

1:44:50 So another sighting of Amy, which was prior to her to her

1:44:55 well during her missing but very early moments was back on the

1:44:59 ship, which is an interesting one because I think there's a

1:45:03 lot of credibility to it. I.

1:45:04 Fully agree. Yeah, so they were actually, I

1:45:06 think it was three women. They two days after the her

1:45:11 disappearance, they finally got to the Bradleys like, Oh my God,

1:45:15 we've been trying to catch you when we we couldn't find you.

1:45:17 And they and they divulged this information.

1:45:20 So the Bradleys were started basically saying we think that's

1:45:22 when they were obviously off on curious out and they couldn't

1:45:24 find them on the ship. So they weren't they didn't give

1:45:27 this information, unfortunately, but for two days.

1:45:30 But what they found was what they saw was that they

1:45:33 remembered that in the early hours of that Tuesday morning at

1:45:37 about 6:00 AM, they had seen Amy with yellow at the nightclub.

1:45:44 So back at the nightclub at about 6:00 AM, which fits with

1:45:47 the timeline of her not being in the room when when Ron's were

1:45:51 rewoken pretty much the same time and what?

1:45:53 And so they just happened to see they were coming down the

1:45:55 elevator or something they could see in through to or no?

1:45:58 They so Yellow and Amy were in a glass, an open glass elevator,

1:46:03 so like a completely glass elevator and they saw them going

1:46:07 up and there's only one thing on that level and that is the

1:46:09 Viking Lounge. Yes, so.

1:46:12 They saw them go in, go into the nice, saw some saw someone pour

1:46:16 a dark drink. So that was another lady.

1:46:19 That was someone else. So there's another lady who was

1:46:21 in the Viking. In the Viking rush because.

1:46:23 Yeah. So this corroborates each

1:46:24 other's story of this was this occurred.

1:46:26 This happened at 6:00 AM Yeah. So yeah, she.

1:46:28 She did exit that room and was alive.

1:46:31 Yeah. At 6:00 AM That's right.

1:46:33 That. Yeah.

1:46:34 So she was seen there at 6:00 AM with him and a dark drink which

1:46:36 could have been a coffee, could have been a Coca-Cola, could

1:46:39 have been anything, anything but a dark drink she was given, you

1:46:42 know, in a glass. So that's.

1:46:45 Yeah, that's that bit of evidence I think is.

1:46:48 Pretty critical what those three girls then also say is that

1:46:53 yellow then exited and came down the elevator to the level that

1:46:57 they were on again walked straight past them.

1:46:59 Now the night, the nights previously, he'd talked to these

1:47:04 three girls, He had danced with them.

1:47:07 He walked past them that morning like.

1:47:10 He'd never seen. Them never seen them before and

1:47:12 they thought that was really weird because he'd come on to

1:47:14 them, he'd wanted to party with them and they weren't all that

1:47:17 interested. Yeah, right.

1:47:19 So they thought that was really weird.

1:47:20 And then they it also made them go, oh, where's Amy?

1:47:22 We just saw you with Amy. Yeah, you're with Amy there.

1:47:25 And the other thing which is interesting of that which you

1:47:27 said earlier that Yellow had been interviewed by the FBI.

1:47:32 He he had been. And he said to them that the

1:47:35 last time he saw Amy was at 1:00 AM on the night prior.

1:47:38 Yeah. Well, so at night, so Tuesday

1:47:40 early, very early, I was Tuesday morning, 1:00 AM Yeah.

1:47:43 So but now there's people saying we saw you with Amy at 6:00 AM.

1:47:47 So that's interesting because he did technically and what's in

1:47:51 it, but he did do a polygraph. He voluntarily did a polygraph.

1:47:55 And he supposedly like, well, it was I've read inconclusive and

1:48:00 I've read past it. So I mean, who knows really.

1:48:03 It's a polygraph. It's.

1:48:05 Not. Admissible.

1:48:06 Not admissible anyway. I mean, what were the questions

1:48:08 that were asked if they didn't know about this 6:00 AM, you

1:48:11 know, sighting at that time, There's no reason they question

1:48:14 him on it. So therefore, him saying I saw

1:48:15 her 1:00 AM isn't wrong. But it's not, you know, so who

1:48:20 knows? But that is what did occur.

1:48:24 Yeah. Yeah.

1:48:26 Yeah, this one's, this one's the tough bit for me, like.

1:48:29 To. Get my head around all of that.

1:48:31 Yeah. Yeah.

1:48:32 So then the other like supposed like alleged sighting was on an

1:48:38 adult website in 2005, a woman named Jazz with the same tattoo,

1:48:46 same build. Forensic comparisons by the FBI.

1:48:51 Yeah. Say that it is a possible match.

1:48:54 I've seen it reported that it was definitely her.

1:48:58 I've reported, I've seen it reported that definitely was

1:49:00 not. Exactly.

1:49:01 So I think that one we almost have to take with a grain of

1:49:04 salt. Unfortunately, and I the one

1:49:06 that I read that I felt was the probably the most credible,

1:49:10 credible, yeah, was basically saying that photos of that era,

1:49:16 it is particularly difficult to tell when they've been altered.

1:49:20 Yes, I did read that. Yeah.

1:49:22 And I found that interesting information 'cause I thought I

1:49:25 'cause even when I first saw it, I was like, well, we didn't

1:49:29 really have like, you know, like an Adobe Photoshop at the time,

1:49:31 You know what I mean? Like yeah, so forcing an image

1:49:34 at that point would be very different to how you would

1:49:36 falsify an image these days. Definitely.

1:49:39 And I wonder what their techniques would be as to how to

1:49:41 go about it, but also how to prove whether it was or wasn't

1:49:44 real. Yeah.

1:49:44 So I mean, if and when. So there's people who have done

1:49:48 more layman, who have done the comparison of like they've used

1:49:51 the image that they've released of Amy, which was taken on the

1:49:54 ship with Brad Bradley, and where she's facing One Direction

1:49:59 and they flip her face the other direction because that's the way

1:50:01 the face is facing in the jazz picture.

1:50:04 Yeah. Now no one's face is

1:50:07 symmetrical. No.

1:50:09 And so when you do that, it matches almost perfectly.

1:50:13 Yeah. Which to me then actually says

1:50:15 it's not her. Yeah, because it wouldn't match

1:50:18 perfectly. Yeah.

1:50:19 If it was genuinely her face. Yeah, and also, like, you know,

1:50:23 you if you flip a photo, you can always tell people look weird

1:50:26 the other way, like, you know, So yeah, I see what you're

1:50:29 saying. Yes.

1:50:29 Yeah. So there's I think there's a

1:50:32 fair bit of credibility to say that that image has been altered

1:50:35 and isn't real, which I'm I devastate because when that

1:50:39 first got brought forward, I know on the documentary I was

1:50:42 like, Oh my God, yes, she's alive.

1:50:45 Oh my God, this is amazing. Like, you know, that would be,

1:50:48 that would bring the family so much hope.

1:50:49 Yeah. Oh, I think it did.

1:50:51 Oh yeah. Oh, I think it brought.

1:50:53 Them, which is so much I'm so sad for them that I don't

1:50:56 believe it's real yeah and not to say that doesn't mean she's

1:50:58 alive or not I I that doesn't not it's not conclusive on that

1:51:01 just that particular. Bit of evidence that.

1:51:03 Just don't think that actually is what you think it is, yeah.

1:51:05 Yeah. The next theory is do we do the

1:51:09 suicide theory next? OK.

1:51:11 Yep, Yep. So I guess the this is I, this

1:51:18 is a a commonly held belief by a lot of people because when the

1:51:24 FBI went to do the initial search of their cabin, of the

1:51:28 Bradley's cabin, they found that the little table, the little

1:51:33 sort of coffee table side table on the balcony was pushed up

1:51:37 against the railing or up against the.

1:51:39 Yeah, against the railing. Yeah.

1:51:41 And so, and then you also mentioned earlier about the

1:51:43 markings on the balustrade. Yeah.

1:51:47 And and so I guess, you know, it's absolutely worth thinking

1:51:52 about the fact that maybe Amy jumped.

1:51:55 Yeah. Now there's several issues with

1:51:58 this theory. Yeah.

1:52:00 The first issue is that I mean, I guess it depends on what

1:52:04 evidence you believe, because a lot of things haven't been re

1:52:07 corroborated by the FBI either. So I'm talking about that

1:52:10 sighting of her in the elevator. That hasn't been I, I think

1:52:15 there's a lot of weight that should be placed on that because

1:52:18 of those girls, the women. But it hasn't been said by the

1:52:23 FBI that, yes, that was a confirmed sighting of Amy.

1:52:27 So if we're thinking that at 5:30, Ron wakes up, sees Amy's

1:52:32 legs there, he goes back to sleep.

1:52:36 The theory is that he's startled to wake at 6:00 AM by the sound

1:52:41 of Amy falling or having jumped over the side of the boat.

1:52:46 Yeah. And that sort of wakes him up to

1:52:50 then be like, oh, where is she? Where is she?

1:52:52 Yeah. This is further this theory I

1:52:55 guess is further supported by people, but like because people

1:52:59 like well her shoes were still left outside.

1:53:03 Let's just say that she did also bring nine other pairs of shoes

1:53:07 on that. Oh yeah.

1:53:07 Probably worth worth mentioning, but she wasn't wearing shoes.

1:53:10 I don't. Oh actually did they?

1:53:12 Did they say whether other shoes had been taken from the room?

1:53:15 This I couldn't find any because I wanted to know what she was

1:53:17 wearing. I know and everything as well.

1:53:19 She. Was wearing, she was definitely

1:53:21 wearing denim shorts and a white shirt because they were able to.

1:53:24 They were able to choose that from her.

1:53:26 OK, I couldn't read. I couldn't write that.

1:53:27 I looked for it and couldn't find that anywhere.

1:53:29 But yeah, because I looked for that in terms of the shoes then,

1:53:31 but I couldn't. Find that in relation to these.

1:53:34 Either it is your holiday so. That's right.

1:53:36 But do you think they'd sink that on a cruise ship?

1:53:38 Because most cruise, No, absolutely not.

1:53:40 Oh, really? Oh yeah.

1:53:41 Oh, I can't close them. You can't go into a common food

1:53:45 area without shoes on. That's gross.

1:53:47 Oh yeah, what food am I eating off my floor?

1:53:51 Oh, I don't know. I don't like it.

1:53:52 Like people who have foot fungus and stuff like, Oh no.

1:53:56 Shoeless. You'd have to agree to disagree

1:53:59 on this one. So.

1:54:01 Yeah, that's, that's another thing, like, was she wearing

1:54:03 shoes? Like, you know, if you're going

1:54:06 overboard and if you're suicidal, do you have the

1:54:09 forethought to be like, I'm going to take my shoes off?

1:54:11 And because they were neatly left too, they were.

1:54:13 But I, I. Do say she's coming after a

1:54:15 night I'd take. Well, personally I'd take my

1:54:17 shoes off pretty quickly. Like same.

1:54:19 Yeah, so would I. So you would have sat down

1:54:20 without your shoes? On yeah, true.

1:54:22 But yeah, but then what happened between 5:30 and 6:00 to make

1:54:25 her go right? I'm going to jump.

1:54:27 Yeah, and I mean, this is where I guess that people come into

1:54:29 this with the whole idea of, you know, her confusion over her

1:54:32 sexuality potentially and her family and where their opinion

1:54:35 on things or, you know, that. But she had so much else going

1:54:39 on in her life that was exciting in terms of her, you know, the

1:54:43 house she had bought. She just got a pup.

1:54:45 Well, she hadn't actually got the puppy yet.

1:54:46 She was picking the puppy up when she got back.

1:54:49 You know, she was planning on meeting back up with Molly.

1:54:52 Yeah. Yeah.

1:54:52 She'd named the puppy. She was meeting back up with

1:54:54 Molly, this girl that she'd been dating and was like, you know,

1:54:56 wanted to make things right with.

1:54:58 But again, as I mentioned, the wording in the letter that she

1:55:01 wrote her, you know, she wrote words like save me, you know,

1:55:04 you know, I, I find the language in that letter of interest that

1:55:09 someone who is feeling, I don't know, like they wanna get back

1:55:14 together with someone. That was just very strong

1:55:18 language of someone who's very needing like that person and

1:55:22 very unsure of themselves. I.

1:55:25 Think. So too, as much as and so saying

1:55:27 that she came across potentially to everyone how I'm happy I'm

1:55:31 the life of the party, but that's not.

1:55:34 I mean, you don't know, you don't know and often people who

1:55:38 commit suicide. Yes, are people who are

1:55:40 presenting in that way. Especially in the very immediate

1:55:43 lead up to their suicide because they're happy they've made the

1:55:46 decision they're gonna do it. They know whatever trauma or

1:55:49 whatever has pushed them to lead to that, yeah is coming to an

1:55:52 end. And they often have a euphoric

1:55:55 leading to that. Yeah, many, many comedians are

1:55:59 depressed. You know, look at Robin

1:56:02 Williams. Robin Williams is a key example

1:56:03 of that, you know, like, so it's, yeah, really interesting

1:56:07 people who do the whole like, oh, but she was so happy.

1:56:09 And so that's rule it out because she was alive for the

1:56:12 party, I think. I don't rule that out so.

1:56:14 Much to be said about her sexuality.

1:56:16 I really feel like that's so downplayed in the Netflix.

1:56:18 Yeah, it is. They sort of, they want to make

1:56:21 something of it without, I don't know, like, but in a really

1:56:24 unusual way. Yeah.

1:56:25 And the fact they left out this information at the boyfriend.

1:56:28 What? What did that just make it too

1:56:29 complicated or I just. Think.

1:56:32 I think Ron and IVA and even Brad to be honest, never

1:56:37 accepted the fact that she was. I don't think so either.

1:56:40 And so when that is who you are and you're in a close family and

1:56:45 you feel like you're not, then being accepted for who you are

1:56:47 by your close family who are ride or die have you back, Yeah,

1:56:52 that is an existential. Crisis.

1:56:54 Yeah, that's interesting. And I wonder that's then it

1:56:57 comes to that question of like, is that why they were so

1:57:00 desperate to have this holiday with the four of them, like with

1:57:03 a family feeling her pulling away, going you're not on the

1:57:06 same page as me and I don't like this and, you know, really

1:57:09 pushing back on them, separating yourself from them that way, in

1:57:13 that way. And so they were like, oh, we

1:57:15 need to bring her back in like, you know, and this holiday was

1:57:17 somehow, I don't know, a way to do that.

1:57:22 But I also then wonder whether the Netflix documentary, not

1:57:27 including this Tom, who was the boyfriend, was that a a

1:57:30 conscious decision on the fact of who they had spoken to as to

1:57:34 who the true Amy was. And they made a call that you

1:57:38 know what? Yeah, she was dating Tom, but

1:57:41 everyone knows it wasn't. She wasn't really with him and

1:57:44 wanting to be with him. So we're just going to leave him

1:57:45 out of it because to to what were they saying?

1:57:48 You know, respectfully, Amy, we know who you were.

1:57:50 I don't, I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

1:57:52 I've heard Tom speak and and their relationship interesting,

1:57:56 but I've also heard that Ivor was very much like you should

1:57:59 date Tom. Take Tom, he's so lovely.

1:58:01 You should date Tom. So I think that's so true.

1:58:04 And I think there was a lot of pressure on Amy as well with the

1:58:07 male attention she was getting on the ship, and her parents

1:58:10 were delighted in that. So the fact that these waiters

1:58:13 were wanting her and stuff. Making a lot of comments around.

1:58:16 Her deal about? It and I wonder whether want her

1:58:19 you. Know looks how popular?

1:58:21 Why? I wonder whether it was as as as

1:58:24 they make it. I'm not saying it didn't happen,

1:58:27 I just wonder if it was as intense as they made it out to

1:58:29 be. Or was it that they were wanting

1:58:31 it so badly that they were like making it more than it was, I

1:58:34 think. The same.

1:58:35 Thing I think it was young people who worked on the ship

1:58:38 were like yeah, come have a party with us.

1:58:39 Like, you know, come and join in and being yeah and look, I'm not

1:58:42 saying Yellow didn't touch her and all these sorts of things

1:58:45 and made passes. Sure it happened, but I don't

1:58:48 know if there was this conspiracy thing of, you know,

1:58:50 like everyone was. Just wanted Amy.

1:58:53 Yeah, these men want today. Yeah, I feel like pushing that

1:58:56 too much. I mean, yeah, I know It then

1:58:59 aligns with this whole idea of her being sex trafficked, yes as

1:59:02 well, yes. But I just wonder whether this

1:59:06 is there's a whole thing there that's maybe not there.

1:59:09 Yeah, I wonder exactly the same thing.

1:59:11 Yeah. So in going along with the

1:59:14 suicide theory as well, is the fact that they were very well,

1:59:19 the theory I guess is that Amy and Brad were very controlled by

1:59:23 their parents. So I'm talking about the fact

1:59:28 that Amy her apartment was purchased by her parents and so

1:59:34 she was beholden to them around that and the fact that they a

1:59:40 lot of the things she did was to please her parents because she

1:59:43 wanted to. But how much of that is, you

1:59:46 know, a level of control, especially over a 23 year old

1:59:49 and a, you know, 21 year old? And then like I know now to this

1:59:55 black in to this exact very day, Brad lives a 62nd walk from his

2:00:01 mom and dad. Now, there's two ways to think

2:00:06 about that. Is he living a minute from his

2:00:09 mom and dad, because they have been through this tragedy and

2:00:11 have lost a child, and that's horrific, and he just wants to

2:00:16 be close to them? Or is that another way for this

2:00:20 control to exist in this family unit?

2:00:24 Yeah, I can see validity in both.

2:00:26 I think a 60 minute 62nd walk, kind of a 60 minute walk sort of

2:00:29 thing is like a 62nd walk, yeah. He's 200 yards away.

2:00:33 Too close, no matter what, he. Bought and built his place that.

2:00:36 Close. I mean, I don't know what the

2:00:39 real estate market market's like where they're from, but I think

2:00:42 you could live 1015 minutes away.

2:00:44 Yeah, and it'd still be. OK, still be OK.

2:00:46 Yeah. Like that seems awfully close.

2:00:48 Very. I mean, I love my parents.

2:00:50 But yeah, yeah, yeah, space is good.

2:00:54 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

2:00:56 So I'm just, you know, this is adds more to the controlling

2:00:59 nature of it. You know, they wanted their kids

2:01:01 to be sporty, so they pushed them into all of the sports.

2:01:04 And I'm not saying the kids didn't want to do it.

2:01:06 I'm not. I don't know.

2:01:07 I think clearly Amy was definitely into it.

2:01:09 Absolutely. You know, excelled at.

2:01:10 It and then she wanted to go on and study that.

2:01:12 Yeah. But then also she's then working

2:01:16 for her uncle's computer company, which has nothing to do

2:01:19 with her degree. Is that a level of control as

2:01:21 well, to keep her within the family and keep her not going

2:01:24 out there? We're embarrassed about what

2:01:26 might have come of that, given her sexual orientation.

2:01:30 I I don't know. I don't know.

2:01:32 It's just theory. Theory banding, you know.

2:01:35 Yeah, I, I don't know. So interesting.

2:01:38 I mean, the one thing that does sort of, well, not one, there's

2:01:41 a couple of things that kind of goes squash on the suicide on

2:01:44 the ship scenario. How sort of that occurring at

2:01:47 like 6:00 AM-ish is that one, she was seen in the ship at 6:00

2:01:52 AM by other people, which is you say not I think corroborated

2:01:56 personally. I know the FBI aren't sort of

2:01:57 saying that, but I feel that that is corroborated enough to

2:02:00 warrant that she was seen on the ship.

2:02:02 But also there is from the room where the the balustrade was.

2:02:06 Yeah, it was quite high. So we should, yeah, to get up on

2:02:09 it. But there was a shelf to stop

2:02:12 people from being able to fall off of the ship.

2:02:14 So if she was going to do it, she would have to have jumped

2:02:18 out a fairway. But not only that, again, we

2:02:22 were saying how far away from the shore she was, The fall

2:02:26 wouldn't have killed her. So where if she was going to do

2:02:29 that, you were to die, she would have to do that out in open sea,

2:02:35 not where you can see land. Yes and also like you think

2:02:39 about her body surely would have washed up with currents and

2:02:42 stuff like that. Well, we can come back to that.

2:02:44 We. Will come back to that.

2:02:46 But yeah, the the other theory of it was that people said like

2:02:48 she jumped off and then swam. Now I don't think that that that

2:02:55 is where I kind of go potentially if is that if she

2:02:57 did, I don't think she did. But if she did, that's a let's

2:03:01 say 4.8 kilometers now a damn good swimmer. 4.8 K in a pool is

2:03:07 1 is a hell of A. Long.

2:03:09 That's a hell of a long way in the ocean you're talking.

2:03:11 There's rips and currents. You're swimming far more than

2:03:14 4.8 K. You've got to think of what she

2:03:16 didn't like being in the ocean. Also the dangers of swimming

2:03:21 around a massive cruise ship with massive rudders and.

2:03:25 Other boats, I mean, I know they said as they were coming through

2:03:27 that spot too, there were other tug boats that pull the boat

2:03:30 around and, you know, manipulate and move the boat as well

2:03:33 because like they rudders can't even make the boat turn that

2:03:35 much. They have other boats in the

2:03:37 water. So someone would have spotted

2:03:39 her if not, you know, potentially collected her in

2:03:42 terms of a rudder or something, you know, like, So I don't, I

2:03:46 don't think that those things occurred.

2:03:48 I don't think that she, I don't think she put herself in the

2:03:51 water, put it that way. Yeah.

2:03:55 Yeah. Yeah.

2:03:57 And use my words carefully. And yeah, another theory is that

2:04:01 she fell so that she was drunk or seasick because, yeah, they

2:04:07 were. The ship was moving at the time.

2:04:10 Yeah, she, according to Brad, she had felt sick after they

2:04:14 left a rubble. Yeah.

2:04:15 And like had felt seasick when the boat started moving again.

2:04:19 Because they weren't, it wasn't in high, like high rough seas,

2:04:21 and they were in fairly calm water.

2:04:22 So, yeah, yeah, that's not to say people don't get seasick in

2:04:25 those sorts of waters. I do get it that people do.

2:04:27 So she quite possibly did because they were moving and so

2:04:30 they were in rough sea. Yeah, So what they, the theory

2:04:33 is, is that she sort of leant over the balcony to vomit and

2:04:35 fell in. But see, that's where like they

2:04:37 actually build the balustrades, so that can't happen.

2:04:39 So they are like, she was 5 foot 6, I think.

2:04:42 Yeah. And the railing came up to about

2:04:44 four foot 10 or so. Basically her arm so can you

2:04:48 like in order to you're unwell, but then she might have stood on

2:04:51 the chair to get enough reach to vomit over the side, who knows.

2:04:55 Yeah. But even then there's the shelf.

2:04:57 So I mean, you have to jump out and so you'd have to put

2:05:00 yourself out there. You'd have.

2:05:01 To projectile vomit projectile. Vomit and then.

2:05:03 Projectile leap, yeah. To get our way from the shelf,

2:05:07 because if you fell over the edge, you're falling on the

2:05:09 shelf that would have collected you so that you didn't fall off

2:05:12 the ship. So they've actually, yeah,

2:05:14 they've put things in place for that reason.

2:05:17 So yeah, that one doesn't really fly either in that scenario.

2:05:22 And that someone saw her at 6:00 AM.

2:05:23 Exactly. Yeah, Yeah.

2:05:26 So we then come back to, I guess the the idea that she

2:05:31 voluntarily disappeared herself. And that could include exiting

2:05:36 the ship, you know, via whatever way she wanted to exit the ship,

2:05:40 not necessarily jumping over the edge and swimming, not she could

2:05:43 have exited the ship voluntarily in other ways.

2:05:45 So yet maybe she didn't want to go and start another life.

2:05:47 I don't, you know, as we was talking about the fact that you

2:05:49 know what the pressure she was under with various things, if

2:05:52 that's what she was doing, I mean, and there are sightings of

2:05:56 her, but I don't know, there's sort of no, no baseline of like

2:06:07 to sort of suggest that's what she would have done.

2:06:09 Yeah. Like to wipe herself with her

2:06:11 family entirely. I don't.

2:06:12 Think that that would be there was a, a report or a, a story

2:06:16 that came out that she was looking for that someone heard

2:06:20 her say that she was getting off the boat to buy drugs for her

2:06:23 and her brother. And so in that instance, what

2:06:27 they assume happened, if you believe this was the reason is

2:06:31 that she got off the boat by via the gangway.

2:06:35 She's gone and tried to find and buy drugs for her and Brad.

2:06:39 And then somehow, like I think these people then also believe

2:06:43 that she was then kidnapped and and sex trafficked basically.

2:06:48 I lean towards part of that. OK, Go.

2:06:53 Are we gonna, are we gonna get into this?

2:06:56 I think let's just really quickly talk about what the

2:06:58 family have done since and then we can get into our theory.

2:07:00 Yeah, cool. So the family have been they

2:07:03 literally haven't stopped looking for any and they've

2:07:08 hired private investigators. We'll get to this bid in a

2:07:11 second. Yes, they've appeared on

2:07:13 America's Most Wanted, the Doctor Phil show, Oprah.

2:07:16 They did a thing back in the oh, fucking Doctor Phil.

2:07:19 Oh, he's such a piece. Of isn't it funny that I think

2:07:21 that's when they brought out the jazz photo.

2:07:23 Isn't it? Yeah, it is.

2:07:24 Maybe someone in the Doctor film show knows where that came from.

2:07:26 Yeah. Exactly like fucking.

2:07:28 He's such a fuck wit and I used to allegedly I used to love him.

2:07:33 I know I it's saying when I first used to like watch, I

2:07:35 just. Can't believe I was so naive.

2:07:38 I know I've rewatched one these days and I just go.

2:07:41 What? Fuck you.

2:07:42 Asshole. Like I remember sometimes having

2:07:45 a siki from school so I could watch an episode that I really.

2:07:47 Yeah, oh God, if you're sick at home.

2:07:49 Oh, Phil. Oprah.

2:07:51 Both of them. Oh, they're so problematic now.

2:07:54 Oh, no, yeah. Anyway, so we'll talk about this

2:07:59 private investor. Yeah, let's go with.

2:08:01 Him a man by the name of Frank Jones in 1999.

2:08:04 So the year after, after Amy went missing, he contacted the

2:08:10 Bradleys. Well, on the foot of someone

2:08:13 else who had contacted them, too.

2:08:15 Yeah. So there'd been another witness,

2:08:18 another sighting that we hadn't mentioned earlier.

2:08:21 Oh, yeah. By Judith Margaret.

2:08:23 Margaret Margaret or something. Yeah.

2:08:26 So she claimed that she was living on Curacao and that she

2:08:31 knew that Amy was being held against her will by heavily

2:08:35 armed Colombian guards in a housing complex, some sort of

2:08:40 compound, and that she was heavily protected by barbed wire

2:08:43 and all these things. And that she had seen Amy

2:08:46 regularly shopping at the grocery store and things like

2:08:49 that in the area. So they, yeah, this was a

2:08:53 sighting that they and they had brought.

2:08:55 This out to the public and. It was like Cura Sal.

2:08:57 OK, yeah. So this this has been put out

2:09:01 publicly to kind of go, well, this is something we've been

2:09:03 told. Has anyone else got any

2:09:05 information on this? And that's when Frank Jones

2:09:08 contacted them saying that he he knew that that was credible and

2:09:14 that he basically thought that he could help them out.

2:09:19 So he claimed to be U.S. Army Special Forces.

2:09:21 Mm Hmm. He won the Bradleys over.

2:09:25 He told IVA that if he had to put Amy on his back and swim her

2:09:30 out of there, he would. Oh, what a hero.

2:09:33 Yep. Yep.

2:09:35 Initially, he told them they needed seven.

2:09:37 He needed $70,000 to get his team together.

2:09:40 I. Should just say so.

2:09:41 This was not long after they had announced.

2:09:43 And this came from Ron's boss as well.

2:09:46 Yeah. That he put up $250,000 as a

2:09:50 reward for the fact that Amy being found alive and returned

2:09:54 to them. There was also another 25,000, I

2:09:56 think it was put up by the government.

2:09:58 Yeah. So.

2:09:58 Yeah. So there's this water money.

2:10:00 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they.

2:10:04 So the Bradleys initially were able to raise this $70,000.

2:10:08 They sold a car. They used their life savings.

2:10:11 They've sent this money to this Frank Jones.

2:10:17 He said he was surveilling this house that Amy was supposedly in

2:10:23 and that he'd had multiple sightings of her.

2:10:26 He'd seen her multiple times. He had two guys on it and then

2:10:31 it came to a point this was going on for months.

2:10:35 Yeah, he was having a nice little holiday in Curacao while

2:10:38 he was doing this and coordinating this.

2:10:41 He. Got to a point where he was

2:10:41 actually he had Ron and and Brad Bradley flew in onto another

2:10:46 island waiting on standby because he was going to get her

2:10:50 out. Actually, they were in Florida.

2:10:52 Sorry to Florida. They were.

2:10:52 They were, Yep, close by. So they could literally come in

2:10:55 and sweep in and collect Amy. So he was getting them out, so

2:10:59 they were on. Call.

2:11:00 Yep. And even IVA went, yeah, to

2:11:03 Florida. They were there for a week.

2:11:06 She did. I think she left.

2:11:07 I think she said she left the room twice for minutes because

2:11:11 she was waiting for this phone call.

2:11:13 So what what led to that point was he said, right, it's time,

2:11:19 it's ready to go. I need another $120,000 to

2:11:24 execute my plan to to get Amy out of there.

2:11:27 And they said to him at the time, can you give us proof?

2:11:30 We need proof that Amy is alive, that you've found her.

2:11:33 Because I mean, OK, they've already given him 70 grand, but

2:11:36 they're like 120. That's a lot of money.

2:11:38 I mean, 70 grand, it's a lot of money.

2:11:40 But of course you would do anything if your child was

2:11:42 missing totally. So they he sends them a photo of

2:11:50 Amy. I'm doing that in inverted

2:11:52 commas from behind. Yeah, with a big like broad brim

2:11:56 hat on so you could really couldn't see her face.

2:11:57 Yep, there was a but the tattoo was on the back of her shoulder.

2:12:01 And so from the from behind, Yep, sitting on a beach, Yep,

2:12:05 next to her was a man. With long blonde hair.

2:12:09 Yeah, I think so. Don't.

2:12:10 Really understand that detail. But anyway, so they're like, Oh

2:12:13 my God, that's Amy. Oh my God, Yep, that's her

2:12:15 tattoo. Totally, absolutely her.

2:12:18 They then get gifted the money from Ron and Ivor's boss, from

2:12:25 the president of the insurance company because they didn't have

2:12:27 any more money. They already given things.

2:12:29 Across No, they were using the National Missing Children's

2:12:31 Organization. Oh.

2:12:32 Sorry, you're sorry. You are absolutely right.

2:12:34 You are absolutely right and I believe did Brad send up a go?

2:12:38 Send up a go. Fund me, I believe eventually,

2:12:40 yeah. Yeah.

2:12:41 So. OK, so they've been able to get

2:12:42 this money together. They've sent it across.

2:12:45 They're waiting in this hotel room in Florida for seven days.

2:12:48 And another man rings. This man says to them, I've been

2:12:52 working with Frank Jones, and I actually can't do this anymore.

2:12:57 I'm so sorry, but we don't have Amy.

2:13:00 I've been, I've been watching that house and it's a normal

2:13:04 family. Yep.

2:13:05 Nothing suspicious about it. Yeah, Amy's not there.

2:13:08 And what he also tells them is that photo is actually a photo

2:13:12 they created. So they had the tattoo made like

2:13:16 a stencil of the tattoo made so that they could like, I don't

2:13:20 know. Yeah, a full transfer, mate.

2:13:22 Yeah, a transfer made transfer and and put on a random woman.

2:13:25 Yep. And yeah, and that's how they

2:13:28 made-up that photo to convince them that they had Amy.

2:13:35 It's so sad. Awful.

2:13:36 So they so fucking ended up giving Frank Jones, like

2:13:39 $210,000. Yeah, they did end up charging

2:13:43 him. So in February 2002, he was

2:13:46 prosecuted and he was charged with frauding the Bradleys of

2:13:51 240,000, sorry $24,444.00 and the Missing children, National

2:13:56 Missing Children's Organization, organization of $186,416.00.

2:14:02 He plead guilty and he went to jail for five years.

2:14:06 So I don't know if they got that money back or not, but because

2:14:09 he drank most of it I think so I'm not sure how much of it

2:14:12 actually end up. In Curacao.

2:14:13 Yeah, and on their dime. So what an absolute fucking sack

2:14:17 of shit. Do that to a family who, I mean,

2:14:19 the amount of times you hear of that sort of stuff, like people

2:14:22 like who are tragically trying to find someone and someone else

2:14:24 takes them for a ride. It's, I mean, going all the way

2:14:28 back to like the Beaumont children, you know, kind of

2:14:30 stuff of like that similar sorts of attitudes of people just

2:14:33 taking advantage of their grief and situation.

2:14:37 Yeah. It's.

2:14:38 Fucked. It's so fucked up.

2:14:40 It's absolutely so fucked up. Yeah.

2:14:45 Now just really quickly as well, do you want to talk a little bit

2:14:48 about, I guess just this was just a note that I made when I

2:14:54 was listening to something? Yeah, that now, I'm not saying

2:14:59 this happened on this cruise ship because I couldn't find any

2:15:02 evidence of that. Yeah.

2:15:04 But a lot of cruise ships make their employees sign Ndas, non

2:15:08 disclosure agreements so that they are actually not allowed to

2:15:11 talk about anything that happened on board and what the

2:15:16 Bradleys and the FBI are worried about.

2:15:19 Or I guess there's concern that maybe somebody on, in fact, I'm

2:15:22 sure somebody on that ship knows something.

2:15:25 Yeah. And because of the fact that

2:15:27 they'd signed a non disclosure and the threat of that was like

2:15:32 significant financial, you know, what am I calling it like

2:15:39 significant financial detriment to them.

2:15:42 You know, they would have to pay a massive amount of money if

2:15:44 they just, oh, they got their lawyers involved.

2:15:46 They locked very quickly. Yeah.

2:15:48 Right. Yeah.

2:15:50 That's prevented information from coming to the fore.

2:15:54 I think we find, like, in all of this, there's lots of people

2:15:57 sighting, you know, seeing sightings of Amy and all these

2:15:59 things that are coming forward. And you hear of lots of like, I

2:16:02 guess passengers, you know, on the ship with information as to

2:16:05 who they saw Amy mingling with. No crew.

2:16:09 The crew I'm and I'm can guarantee you the crew saw more

2:16:12 than anyone else. No crew have come forward going.

2:16:14 Yeah, yeah, we are. We, we, you know, we invited Amy

2:16:17 to come for drinks, you know, or yeah, we saw Amy doing this and

2:16:20 we saw Amy talking. You don't hear of any crew doing

2:16:22 that. There was the one guy on the the

2:16:24 doco. The What did he?

2:16:28 He was like the like the guest relations office, like, I don't

2:16:33 know, I don't know. But he was a bit of a character.

2:16:35 Yeah, a bit of a character. He's like the only one.

2:16:37 And really he didn't give much, to be honest.

2:16:39 He didn't give much information. I found he was a bit of a

2:16:41 filler. Yeah.

2:16:42 So that's interesting. And I think that that was done

2:16:45 very carefully for that reason. So I really, I, I think you're

2:16:50 right in terms of the NDA and I wonder what kind of, I mean,

2:16:54 it's already been nearly what cut not far off of 30 years ago

2:16:57 that there's got to be a statute of limitation.

2:17:00 Apparently there is an apparent Apparently it's 25 years

2:17:03 depending on the juristic. Yeah, they it it's.

2:17:06 So I wonder whether we may hear something come out of people in

2:17:10 at some point. I don't know.

2:17:12 It's a it's an interesting one. Yeah.

2:17:15 I guess before we get into our theory, yeah, I think just worth

2:17:19 noting that Amy's family did end up getting her get declared

2:17:24 deceased. So they did that mainly because

2:17:28 of the fact that they wanted to sue Royal Caribbean for their

2:17:34 lack of their negligence and wrong for the wrongful death

2:17:37 basically. And they can't do that unless

2:17:39 they've got her declared dead. So so they did do that.

2:17:42 And there was an outcome of that very recently that they lost

2:17:46 that. Now they are appealing it.

2:17:48 So that's still going to play out a little bit more.

2:17:50 But the reason why it was that they lost it I found very

2:17:56 interesting. So the judge, just the judge did

2:17:59 say a lot of things, particularly that he felt that

2:18:03 they perjured themselves, the Bradleys, and that they were

2:18:07 really forcing this issue of that.

2:18:10 There is only one theory here and that is that she was

2:18:14 kidnapped and that therefore the ship should be held accountable.

2:18:20 When the judge very much felt from the evidence that was

2:18:23 really available that there were many possibilities still that

2:18:28 were not shut down like as in that day it was there was not.

2:18:31 That was not the only viable possibility and therefore they

2:18:35 didn't have a case which I think that that's.

2:18:39 Fair, I agree. Yeah, I, I really think that

2:18:42 that's fair at that point, until we can get actual sightings or

2:18:47 actual, you know, corroboration of various aspects of things,

2:18:52 anything that happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:18:54 Tell me what you think. OK.

2:18:57 I think, and I think it ties into the fact of where she was

2:19:01 at mentally a little bit. I think she was looking for some

2:19:05 drugs. I don't think she was a drinker.

2:19:08 I think that though somebody suggesting some other something

2:19:11 else, something else would have been potentially enticing and I

2:19:14 think that's why she was. She was there with yellow at

2:19:17 six. AMI think he had said to her,

2:19:18 come back and see me later, because I've got to go back to

2:19:20 my room now. Come back and see me in the

2:19:23 morning and I'll hook you up with someone who can get you

2:19:25 there. Whatever that is.

2:19:28 I don't know. I'm not.

2:19:29 I wouldn't want to say what kind of drug, what, how you know.

2:19:32 Is it relevant? Not really.

2:19:33 Not really could be anything. Yep.

2:19:35 So I think that was where they were meeting and he was like,

2:19:37 yeah, I'll go sort, sort this out.

2:19:39 And that's where he's gone off and just left her there having a

2:19:42 drink while he does something. Now, what happens after that?

2:19:47 I believe either they snuck her off the boat to meet with a

2:19:52 dealer or something. And whether she took that drug

2:19:56 there and then had a dreadful reaction and died, or whether

2:20:01 they did. Then take advantage of her, rape

2:20:04 her awful things, whatever killed her, I don't know, But I

2:20:09 think that that's where something's gone wrong.

2:20:12 When they put her in something to get her off the ship and she

2:20:16 suffocated. I don't know, I think something

2:20:18 has gone awry in that scenario of meeting up with someone for.

2:20:23 Drugs. And do you think the meeting

2:20:26 took place on the ship or off the ship?

2:20:28 I think it I feel like off the ship.

2:20:32 I think so too. Yeah.

2:20:33 So I have a similar, very, very similar theory.

2:20:36 Yeah. I think she was looking for

2:20:38 something. Yeah.

2:20:40 Drugs, a different life. I'm not.

2:20:44 I don't think she intended to disappear.

2:20:46 No, forever. No, that's what I don't think

2:20:48 that was her intention. No, I think she was just looking

2:20:50 for coping. She was.

2:20:51 Something I need it. I need something and.

2:20:54 Someone was offering something. I think there's a lot to be said

2:20:56 about the controlling nature of her family.

2:20:58 I think there's there's weight there.

2:21:01 Yeah. I think the letter that Ron

2:21:04 wrote to her girlfriend, I think that would have weighed very

2:21:10 heavily on her. I mean.

2:21:11 Well, that happened. I know, I know.

2:21:13 Time prior I know I. Think that established, that's

2:21:16 right, that established a a baseline of what her family

2:21:20 thought and how strongly they thought.

2:21:22 It especially if she was going home to I want to be with Molly,

2:21:25 Molly and I'm going to get rid of this situation.

2:21:28 Like if that say was something that was really playing on her

2:21:30 mind. Yeah, I think I think that was

2:21:33 just a lot on her mind. And so someone offering up a

2:21:36 Halo. Do you want to get some weed or

2:21:38 like something that's, you know, that she was willing to try

2:21:40 something that maybe she hadn't ever ever tried before.

2:21:42 Maybe she I'm not saying that she was a drug user by doing

2:21:46 this by any means. I know because I think she

2:21:48 really would be. And she sounds like a true

2:21:49 athlete and all those sorts of things.

2:21:51 But I think in the mental state she was in, the fact she didn't

2:21:54 really want to be there, you know, like, really like.

2:21:56 As a form of escapism. Maybe, Yeah, looking for

2:21:58 something, looking for something else.

2:22:00 I think that's what she's. Got to waiting for.

2:22:02 Yep. And some people have offered

2:22:03 some things up and I think it's gone to shit.

2:22:05 Yep, and then and then how it's gone to shit is really hard to

2:22:09 know. Yeah, I I feel like she probably

2:22:13 did not exit the ship through the gangway, no.

2:22:16 I don't think that she, no, I think it's, she's gone through

2:22:18 crew, you know, I think that's where.

2:22:21 Through the other side and onto a boat or something.

2:22:23 I think that's very. Very much more.

2:22:25 Likely it literally. Could have been someone meeting

2:22:27 them, you know, delivering, as we're saying, like, you know,

2:22:30 produce, right, and other kind of produce, you know, And so

2:22:35 probably someone coming to the ship, bringing something that it

2:22:38 could have been as simple as literally on the dock that they

2:22:40 were meeting somebody, not necessarily going off into

2:22:43 curate. So that's where I don't think

2:22:45 she was like, oh, I'm going to go all the way into like this

2:22:47 bar in there. I'll tell my parents where I'm

2:22:49 going. I think she was like, oh, I'm

2:22:51 going to be back by 6:15 after this, like kind of stuff.

2:22:54 I'm just going to the dock here. I'm not actually exiting the

2:22:56 boat kind of stuff. I don't think she saw it that

2:22:59 way. I really don't think she had any

2:23:01 intention of, yeah, disappearing, but she went to go

2:23:04 and get that and things have turned to shit without the fact

2:23:07 that she arrived and this yellow bloke's, you know, gone, you

2:23:10 know, like, I don't know, my friend here wanted to get some

2:23:13 and he's like, why the hell did you bring her?

2:23:15 Like now she knows who I am or I don't know.

2:23:17 I don't know. Something's just not gone how it

2:23:21 should have. Yeah.

2:23:23 And they've had to then get rid of her.

2:23:25 Yeah. I don't think she's alive.

2:23:27 I don't think she is either. That's awful to say, I.

2:23:30 Feel so sad when you see IVA interviewed and she's like, you

2:23:35 know, if she has children because you know, if she's been

2:23:37 sex trafficked, the chances are she, you know, before pregnant,

2:23:40 maybe she's got children and that's what's keeping her from

2:23:43 getting. Inside that goes back to another

2:23:45 comment that was made by the family that she wouldn't know

2:23:48 the words that Brad used. I know exactly what you're.

2:23:52 And what was the word that? I kind of freaked out.

2:23:54 It was like she won't be the supplier of grandchildren.

2:24:00 I'm sorry, what? You can be in a lesbian

2:24:05 relationship and have children for one thing, but to you the.

2:24:10 That language really got me I. Thought so.

2:24:13 Too and he used he he repeated it in the interview.

2:24:17 So problematic. Oh, I was like, oh, we are not.

2:24:21 But do you females and suppliers?

2:24:23 But do you see also what I mean? Like the family never accepted

2:24:27 her. They claim to be close.

2:24:30 But then, you know, if that's your mentality and you're saying

2:24:32 that on camera. Yeah, you can be a straight

2:24:34 woman and not want children. Like it has so many things here

2:24:39 that are wrong with that statement.

2:24:41 I just found it that no, I'm sorry.

2:24:44 You need to really rethink that, Brad.

2:24:46 Bradley, Bradley. Bradley, Bradley, Bradley.

2:24:49 Yeah, yeah. What about you?

2:24:51 What any? I don't have a lot to add to

2:24:54 what you've said, I think. I think what you've said is is

2:24:57 probably right. It's.

2:24:58 Taking me a long time to come to that I.

2:25:00 Know, but I can also see I don't think she committed suicide in

2:25:06 that. I don't think she's jumped

2:25:07 overboard. I don't the sex trafficking

2:25:14 thing I can come out, but how is it that nearly 30 years later we

2:25:20 don't know anything like I just think in this day and age.

2:25:23 That's the other thing that we didn't mention actually is they

2:25:26 set up a website for Amy the family did and they noticed

2:25:31 these hits that were coming. I think it was from Barbados,

2:25:33 wasn't it? From an IP address in Barbados,

2:25:35 yes. And it they, they noted that

2:25:39 this particular IP address would always ping on significant days

2:25:44 to the family. So on Ron or Ivor's or Brad's

2:25:47 birthday, on Amy's birthday on Christmas.

2:25:51 And it was enough of AI guess a coincidence to make them think,

2:25:56 Oh my God, maybe this is Amy just checking in, seeing what

2:25:59 else is going on, seeing what activity there is.

2:26:03 Again, nothing's been corroborated.

2:26:04 It's not like the FBI have been able to trace where that IP

2:26:07 address is coming from or. Anything like that?

2:26:09 So, no, you know, I just think there's so much hope for this

2:26:14 family. I don't know.

2:26:16 It's yeah, I don't know. I, I, I've my gut feeling is

2:26:21 that she's not alive. I.

2:26:24 Feel like if she was. Alive she would have made.

2:26:26 Contact, I mean, I think the family have done an incredible

2:26:29 job at getting out, you know, this information about a

2:26:32 disappearance that I just feel and that's where I'll go back to

2:26:35 that whole I don't think that she would have been chosen to be

2:26:38 sex trafficked for this reason that she was too identifiable,

2:26:41 too loved and too wanted by her family that she would have been

2:26:45 found by now because of that. I really honestly think if she

2:26:48 was out there doing that, one of these, I just think these people

2:26:52 who think they have seen her, want to have seen her.

2:26:57 Yeah, this and the. Thing we didn't talk about is

2:26:59 Brad thought when they went back to Curacao a month after her

2:27:02 disappearance, he thought he heard her call out, call out to

2:27:07 him in a passing car. Yeah.

2:27:09 And they followed that passing car.

2:27:10 And when they got to the end of it, it was a man alone in his

2:27:13 van. But I've listened to podcasts of

2:27:18 other people who have missing family members and they say they

2:27:21 hear them everywhere. They see them everywhere.

2:27:23 And you have to do a double take before you're like, oh, no, no,

2:27:26 that's not my missing loved 1. So he, he, I think that's not

2:27:30 really, you know, worth the wait of, of anything.

2:27:33 But it goes to the distress of the family and just the impact

2:27:36 of all of this and. There's also the fact that there

2:27:39 was a number of sightings of Amy in a particular area and I think

2:27:43 it was Barbados. Could have been curious now and

2:27:46 they went there to follow it up and they actually found this

2:27:49 woman that was being sighted constantly and it was a just a

2:27:53 doppelganger basically. She did look like Amy, very

2:27:56 similar. She was not American.

2:27:57 She had another like accent altogether.

2:28:01 So as soon as she spoke, anyone would have known that she wasn't

2:28:04 Amy. But, yeah, so I think, you know,

2:28:06 a lot of people are this thing if you don't know someone, I

2:28:11 really question if you've never met that person in your life.

2:28:14 And you see someone on a on ATV show going, oh, this person's

2:28:17 missing. And you go, oh, my God, that's

2:28:19 the person I saw three months ago.

2:28:20 Yeah, No, I'm sorry. I I kind of call bullshit.

2:28:23 So do I, I think you kind of go, Oh my God.

2:28:25 It's like, yeah, I mean, because you want it to be, you want to

2:28:27 be the core, you want to be the person.

2:28:28 I'm not just not saying this as an egocentric, like hurtful

2:28:31 thing like, but to be the person who found that person to be

2:28:34 like, Oh my God, I made the, I made the connections.

2:28:36 I'm going to be able to solve this.

2:28:38 You want to do that for someone. And I, but I just, I don't know.

2:28:41 I just don't, I don't put a whole lot of weight.

2:28:43 I'm not saying they didn't see her and it never happened, but I

2:28:45 just, I think there can't be too much weight put on them when

2:28:48 they're not being able to be corroborated and things like

2:28:51 that. But yeah, oh, I just, it's

2:28:56 awful. Now, the other little bit of

2:28:57 information I find this really interesting is that a fragment

2:29:02 of jawbone, A jawbone was found washed up.

2:29:06 I want to say. Was that Curacao?

2:29:08 Was it? Yes, it was.

2:29:11 Curacao So yeah, so literally in that that area, a jawbone washed

2:29:15 up on shore and at the time it was tested for actually thought

2:29:19 it was Nelly Holloway. It was tested for that and was

2:29:23 proven to not be Nelly Holloway. Now that jawbone has never been

2:29:27 tested with for DNA for a match with Amy.

2:29:32 Why I don't this is I don't understand why if I was the

2:29:36 family. You'd be pushing.

2:29:37 You would, I mean to just to rule it out and just be like,

2:29:40 because I mean to finally get some sort of closure.

2:29:42 Not that it would give you all the answers.

2:29:44 No, it would not at all. At least you'd know that we need

2:29:47 to stop looking like. But surely you're pushing

2:29:51 forward to try and get the DNA and get a?

2:29:54 Yeah, I don't understand why that hasn't.

2:29:56 No, it's like how hard is it to run her DNA against?

2:29:59 Really don't get that. Yeah, I don't either.

2:30:01 But I find that interesting because no, it hasn't been much

2:30:03 to anybody else. No, no.

2:30:05 And they have, it has been tested.

2:30:07 Yeah. Against others, yeah.

2:30:08 So. Yeah, maybe watch this space.

2:30:11 I don't know. I don't.

2:30:12 Know I feel like that's been sitting around for too long and

2:30:14 hasn't been done. Yet I don't get it.

2:30:16 I don't understand that piece. Piece of evidence, actually.

2:30:18 Yeah. But I mean, I think that that

2:30:20 would, you know, still in the theory that I'll put forward

2:30:24 that the possibility that someone did then throw, you

2:30:26 know, in the in the sea or whatever, Yeah.

2:30:29 Still fits. Yep.

2:30:31 Agreed. Agreed.

2:30:32 Agreed. Yeah.

2:30:34 All right, just to end on, I was like, OK, so, so much shit

2:30:40 happens. Well, sorry.

2:30:42 You look at a cruise and you think it's all happy, fun,

2:30:45 great. I'm like, I just want to.

2:30:47 Fuck a formal wear, but anyway. For those who love it, yeah, I'm

2:30:52 like, I just wonder how many things like this happen on

2:30:56 cruise. Ships, right?

2:30:57 Yeah. Now I found so much, I'm just

2:31:01 going to give you incidents that have happened on the Rhapsody of

2:31:04 the Seas. Oh no, I don't want to go

2:31:09 cruising and really don't. After after researching this in

2:31:11 general, I was like oh I'm out. Nope.

2:31:13 Nope. I will, Yep.

2:31:15 Oh, just on one boat, yeah. So this is just incidences,

2:31:19 yeah. Rhapsody of the Seas New Year's

2:31:21 Day 2010 A 15 year old American passenger was raped by a crew

2:31:25 member. She had been seasick during the

2:31:29 Australian New Zealand round trip and cruise and was resting

2:31:32 alone in a cabin when a man wearing a bartender's uniform

2:31:35 entered and raped her. December 2013.

2:31:40 An Australian passenger fell overboard during a trip to New

2:31:43 Caledonia. An extensive search was made and

2:31:47 his body was found. April 2016 the boat was hit by a

2:31:56 Rogue Wave in Santorini. Hang on, hang on.

2:32:00 A Rogue Wave? Apparently.

2:32:02 A Rogue Wave? A Rogue Wave.

2:32:04 It struck at 4:00 AM. It broke windows of 6 passenger

2:32:11 cabins and LED in so much water that it flooded staterooms on

2:32:15 decks 2 and 3. Yeah, like that's not giving you

2:32:18 a Titanic feels. No, I know right?

2:32:23 September 19th 2016 the ship severely listed so was tilted to

2:32:29 the side because of strong winds that were blowing against it and

2:32:32 they couldn't quite get the ship to face into the wind.

2:32:35 All right. Unfortunately, the Viking Lounge

2:32:41 was destroyed during that. As it should.

2:32:46 Be nobody was injured during that one.

2:32:48 OK. September 2019, a crew member

2:32:51 died going overboard while the ship was docked in Dubrovnik

2:32:56 under suspicious circumstances. The so Royal Caribbean said the

2:33:01 3435 year old waiter committed suicide, but his family in India

2:33:07 vehemently denied that right. In October 2023, the US State

2:33:13 Department actually used the Rhapsody of the Seas to evacuate

2:33:18 U.S. citizens and their families from Israel after the outbreak

2:33:21 of the Gaza war. That's just an interesting

2:33:23 little TPS. At least it's something good.

2:33:25 Something. Good happened in September 2025.

2:33:28 SA must 40. 2 So this boat's still floating around.

2:33:31 Still going A passenger jumped overboard as the ship docked in

2:33:35 Puerto Rico because he was facing a bill of $16,000 in the

2:33:41 onboard casino and he also brought in more than $15,000

2:33:46 cash onto the ship, which was prohibited.

2:33:50 I think $10,000 was the limit and he was later arrested so he

2:33:54 survived jumping from the second deck of the ship.

2:33:57 Yeah. So yeah, that's just the

2:34:01 Rhapsody of the Seats like Notable mentioned.

2:34:03 Oh, oh so much. Yeah, a lot of people die on

2:34:07 cruise ships. Basically, if you've got a

2:34:09 cruise planned. Tell you speak.

2:34:12 Careful. Yeah, especially.

2:34:14 Going pairs. Going pairs don't go anywhere

2:34:15 alone. Don't light up a room.

2:34:19 Totally. All right, this is a long.

2:34:25 Oh my God, it is to freak. Well, we just topped our longest

2:34:29 episode I think. Did we?

2:34:30 Oh my God. You're welcome, people.

2:34:35 Bit of a bumper. Let us know on the social DMS.

2:34:37 Let us know what you think. Comment on the posts that Meg

2:34:40 does on like Instagram, Facebook.

2:34:43 Let us know what your theories are.

2:34:44 We're really, really curious to see definitely.

2:34:46 Because I mean, there's so many and there's so much information

2:34:48 out there. I'm sure there are things we

2:34:50 haven't covered today. Let us know what you think.

2:34:52 Next week, we're bringing you the Matthew Leveson case.

2:34:55 I, this one touches me. I feel like I just every time I

2:34:59 think of Matthew Leveson, I think of his dad and I just.

2:35:02 Yeah. All right.

2:35:04 So stay tuned next week for that one.

2:35:06 Thank you for joining us again. Stay curious, grand besties.

2:35:09 Bye.