Episode 69 - The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties, we are here for episode 6960. 9 Peters favorite. I have to tell this story about when Oliver was in grade 2 or grade one. It might have even been his teacher came out to me after school one day. And she's like, oh, can I have a quick word with you? She was never a good Oh, and you're always like, oh God, what's happened now? And she's like, I just wanted to just let you know that whenever I ask for a number in class, like if we're putting maths equations on board, Oliver always says 69.

0:49 And she goes, I just, I asked him about it today and he said, oh, it's because it's my dad's favorite. And then? That teacher tells this story more often even than you do. I'm Dumber. And I was like, oh God, yeah, he's he's he's 40, but he's, you know, but he is 1212. Yeah. He's got the mentality of a 12 year old schoolboy. And then she's like, and he also told me that it was the last digits of his phone number. And I'm like, well, that's actually true. And I'm sure he chose that phone number when he was 18, when he was 18 or whatever, because it had that number on.

1:37 So I'm like, I came home. I was, I was like, I mean, it was very funny. And she was, she was quite tongue in cheek about it. Obviously she was. It was a bit of a laugh, but I came home and I was like, furious with Peter. I'm like, he's bloody How? I don't know. How old are you? In Grade 1? I don't know, 7878? Yeah, something like that. Seven. I'm like, for God's sake, what have you taught our children? I. Love it 'cause like Ollie has no idea why that's Daddy's favorite number. That's right. Just knows that it is.

2:08 Oh, it's so funny. Ohh. I love it. Love it. So anyway, welcome to episode 69. Yeah. And today we're discussing the case of Amy Lynn Bradley. So, you know, this will be. This is quite a convoluted 1. Ohh, it is a so so. Much. Yes. So, so much before we get into today's, you know, today's case, though, I think there's a couple of updates that I just wanted to have a quick chat about that have happened literally this week I have. Not caught up? On any new case, so I'll be. I'm here for it here. For it.

2:41 OK, so first thing on Wednesday this week, so we're recording this on the 7th. So this happened on the 5th of November 2025. The Easy St. committal hearing of Perry Korumbulus started and his defence barrister is Dermot Dan as well. He's. Busy man, he's a busy. Busy bloke. Oh God. And basically in the committal they're just deciding whether or not there's enough evidence to take Perry to trial because he's saying that. So Dermot Dan on his behalf has said that he will be pleading not guilty to murder and that he wants the rape charge dismissed.

3:19 So watch this space. I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot that's been said in the last two days. So it was heard on Wednesday and Thursday, and I believe there are three more days scheduled in the future to finish hearing it before the justice can then have some time to go back and consider whether or not this is something that will proceed to trial. So watch this space. We'll keep everyone updated. Yeah, I just, I just feel for their families. It's been so long already. And now like I oh God, if he did it, it just shits me that he's maybe going to drag this out and potentially.

3:51 Well, he's already 77 or something like that, you know? You've had many years of freedom like, well, if he, if he did this. Yeah, fuck you. Yeah, fuck. What a piece of shit. I know it's allegedly. Yeah, all very alleged at the moment. Mm hmm. And then the other update is yesterday, none other than This is just such timing. We've done it again. Tony Mokbel walked free from from well, from court yesterday because the charges on the drug charge that we talked about in last week's episode with Nicola Gabo, yeah, that big drug charge that he was convicted for, they slashed the sentence to time already served.

4:34 And the reasoning for that was it was his first conviction over drugs, believe it or not. Which seems. Ridiculous. But but it was it was the fact that Nicola Gabo was involved and and like also he sustained a head injury while he was in prison, so he got some time off for that as well. Yeah, interesting. I find really interesting too, like there was a a coin that we were at that that. True crime. Recently about the fact that a local Tavern had been investigated by because their, their amount of money going through their pokies had like tripled recently and they were like, what's going on here?

5:15 Like doing a bit of money laundering, are we like. And we're very much looked into. And it turned out they that when they spoke to the venue, they said, I don't know, we've just got a new patron 'cause he's out and about. And so, yeah, Tony Mokbel's been spending time at the pokies it. Was to the tune of something like 300 grand or something like it. Was a some of the an extra 80 grand a. Week a week, yeah. That accumulated over a few weeks. They were like, this isn't right. Yeah. Pokies, no one wins on a pokie.

5:45 No, no, no. They are made for you to lose. That might not. Maybe someone wins some money, but. Yeah, they probably. How much money you put in them, I can see it. Yeah, that's exactly right. So they're the two big updates in cases that we've covered, you know, already. So interesting, Very, very interesting. Watch this space. What do you think will come of the the Perry crumbles? That's I'm nervous of that because I mean, it is. It was so long ago to have the evidence that they need to get him, you know, so far down the track.

6:20 Witnesses it is. It's gonna be tough. They they called some witnesses. Yeah. To, to the committal hearings. So the journalist who lived next door, Yeah, she she testified as, as did her housemate. And they spoke about their story. Iona Stevens, I think her name was. Yeah. And the interesting thing was her, her roommate, her housemate, basically her testimony the other day was exactly that of her statement however many years ago. And but then. It has to be really like, because wasn't. I know. And that's the thing that gets me like because that's where they're gonna get undone.

6:56 Yeah, 'cause Dermot Dan's gonna jump on that and go. What you're saying your memory now is more is better than it was back then? What she was saying in this community, she was don't like her. I don't either. I like it, makes me feel nervous. Yep. Yep. I don't know. We'll watch this space and and go from there. Yeah, we do have a few other shout outs today. So we have a couple of new Patreons. So we've got Naomi. And then relax your head. How long have you?

7:25 Read it like that. From the UK, we think yeah, we think so thank you guys. It it really, really, truly means a lot to us. And then we had this beautiful Instagram DM from one of our loyal, very loyal listeners. I see her name come up all the time. So victory, yes. And she said she was really proud of us for reaching 200,000 listens. And I just it really warmed me. It just made me feel like that's so nice and sort of acknowledging the fact that, you know, we really put ourselves out there to this and to see it really starting to gain some momentum.

8:00 Yeah, I think we should be proud of ourselves. Absolutely no, and I love that others feel the same way. Yes, yes. So thanks guys. Thanks. And then we also had Fermi under score Pharma leave us another really nice damn. So thank you everybody. As I said, even if you can share our podcast with one other person, that would be awesome. Thank you. Absolutely. No, thank you very much to all those people. That's it. Because. Our Tiktoks like died Yeah what's with that? So I think Instagram is our new our new little haven yeah.

8:31 So we'll grow that up a little bit more than because I mean, we've still got the amount, the amount of followers we've got on TikTok is amazing. But the views and stuff is just. Really low. We don't get it. I mean, we've not. Changed anything? No, that's clearly tick tock that have changed things. Yeah, but we're not like that good at that stuff like as in like we don't get how the algorithm works on how to manipulate the algorithm anyway a. Few things that I'm like, I think we meant to do this stuff, but it's none of the old stuff's working so.

8:58 OK. Well, you're doing great. You're doing absolutely good. Too. Thank you. You're great. No. You're great. You are. Let's get into today's case. Let's do that. All right, so today, as I said at the start of the episode, we are talking about Amy Lynn Bradley. Now, I'm sure a lot of listeners, especially if you're listening to our podcast, you've probably watched or at least heard about the documentary that's currently on Netflix called Amy Bradley Is Missing. I think that gives a perspective and I think it gives some of the story, and I found it interesting to watch and seeing the actual people involved in this.

9:38 Yeah. But I think by no means does it tell a complete and full story so. No, there's definitely some holes, yeah, interesting perspectives that they give. Agreed. Yeah, agreed. So we'll try and keep things like pretty factual to start with and just go through that and then we can talk to what we actually think. Although I'm super keen to to hear what you're. Really keen to hear what you think I. Yeah. OK, I really, really want to hear what you've got to say about. Yeah, Cool. Same unsolved ones always, like, yeah, bring this.

10:09 Yeah. In such an element of doubt, yeah. So Amy Lynn Bradley was born on the 12th of May in 1974 in Petersburg, VA, to IVA and Ron Bradley. They were both insurance executives working at the same company and a couple of year or a bit over 2 years later, her younger brother Brad Bradley was born. Let's talk about that. Yeah, let's do it. Who does that? OK, so. My dad went to school, yeah, with a boy named Evan Evans. Well, like, I mean, OK, you like the name Evan. You've already given it to them.

10:46 Like Caitlyn? Brooke's eldest son. His name is Lewis Lewis. She did do that, didn't she? Now you say that. Yeah, I don't. Why? I don't know. Why would like it's like basically saying we got it right with our surname, we can't do anything else. We don't need to put any effort into. It Yeah. Like, why? Like I loved like. I had found it really hard coming up with names to my kids. There's plenty of names I didn't want to have. Yeah. As a teacher, I bet that yeah, I. Have a long list of no's? Yes. Yeah.

11:17 Like, unusually, it's most of them started with AJ. Yeah, classic. Yeah. So it's it was like you want to find like the right name for them. Why do you need to always take already take one that you've got. I don't get, I just don't get it. I don't, I don't either. Like. And do you think his name was actually like a Bradley Bradley and he just goes by Brad? Yeah. Exactly. I don't know, I couldn't find anything to. No, it seems to be. Brad everywhere. Yeah, Brad everywhere. Brad Bradley. Bradley. People please.

11:49 I mean, like Amy, you know, like it's not lovely. Yeah. Lovely, lovely, yeah. There's a million names out there. You could go with it. Go with Bradley. Yeah, totally. Anyway, OK. I'll move on. They can we, though. Can we? I can't in my internal. Side. OK. We, we know it. We know it. So they moved into Chesterfield County in Virginia when the kids were quite young, bought a family home there and really established really firm connections to the community there. They, the kids both attended LC Byrd High School and then after high school.

12:30 So during high school, sorry, Amy was incredibly athletic. I think any sport she tried her hand at, she was proficient at and she particularly excelled at basketball and swimming. So she was a swim teacher and a swim coach through the high school, and she was also a lifesaver at the local pool to earn a bit of extra money. And I think Brad might have even done the same right when she attended. So she went to Longwood University with a full scholarship in basketball, And she was actually the first student to attain a full athletic scholarship to that university.

13:09 Oh, wow. So there were academic scholarships beforehand? Yeah. It was the first time they'd had a sports scholarship. She studied, like, sports psychology, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. And. Didn't seem to go into that afterwards. Well, that's, I find. See, this is we're gonna have to come to all this. So I think she was looking at doing a masters after she finished university and worked for a few years. But we can get we can get to all of that. In fact, I can't wait to talk to you about all that a bit later.

13:39 So in this was in December of 1996 that she graduated and she actually ended up having a couple of years of just working. I think she was doing some sports coaching and that kind of thing. And then, you know, coming up to the point where they go on this, they were going on this cruise. She'd been able to get herself an apartment. So she'd saved up enough money that she was able to put a well. I believe her parents may have assisted greatly in terms of the purchase of this apartment. Right. She she wasn't renting, she was purchased.

14:12 Oh, that's interesting. OK, I didn't really, I didn't read that and. I I believe she wasn't the only like it wasn't all her money maybe and purchased that apartment very close to her family's home. So they all lived in a very, very small sort of. It's still in the same county. Yeah. In Virginia, Yeah. And. She was only working like at a steakhouse, yes. So I don't know that, you know. I think she was working at a steakhouse at night and then like during the day coaching like. Kids like she wasn't earning enough money to me, Yeah, to get a house deposit.

14:42 And I don't believe it was full time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, she was about to start a new job when she got back from the trip. She was or she'd arranged her. That's right, like which was sounded like more of AI don't know it was a time role that sort of stuff at a computer that her uncle. Owned. So again, we will get to this a bit later on because I find that a very interesting detail as well. Yeah. So, yeah, so I guess IVA and Ron, look, the way that they are portrayed in a lot of things that I have watched and listened to is that they were an incredibly close family.

15:21 You see all of them. So IVA, Ron and Brad Bradley, should we just call him Brad Bradley? Bradley the entire. That's all he can be known as, Yeah. Are interviewed in the Netflix documentary and then you can find countless interviews with them because they have on to the NTH degree in getting Amy's story out there over the years. And so look, I find I look at Ivor's face in that in the interview in the Netflix documentary, and I just want to cry. My heart breaks because they, you know, they, what they say is that they were such a close knit family.

16:02 Brad and Amy were best friends. They looked out for one another. They were so close. He was even dating at this time, he was dating a girl who was actually Amy's friend. So like the three of them then we sort of became a bit of a three. Not must you use the word threesome 'cause that sounds like really weird. But like, yeah, they, you know, paled around together, all the three of them, that sort of stuff. So they were very tight, like a siblings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But had really, like, good social lives and that kind of thing.

16:30 Yeah. But as a family unit of four, they were very, very close and did a lot of things together. Did everything together. Yeah. And you look at that from the outside and you think, Oh my God, how idyllic, like how lovely. And Brad, even Brad Bradley even says in a lot of the interviews that he's like, we were the family that people envied. We were the family that people wanted to be a part of or to have a family just like. And you know, he said their childhood growing up, there was nothing that happened that no tragedy, no trauma.

17:02 No, you know, it was just so normal and great and happy and all of those things.

17:11 Yeah. So we come to the to the time now where Ivor and Ron are working for an insurance company. And this is back in the day where bonuses would be amazing. And instead of getting a financial bonus, I guess they were this company had incentives and it was a holiday every year. And Ivor and Ron had qualified before they'd met sales targets. That meant that they were able to go on other trips with with this insurance company. But this particular year in 1998, they were gifted A7 day cruise to the Caribbean, Caribbean, Caribbean.

17:47 Which Yeah, which one do you use? Caribbean, I think that's what we say here, but everything you'll hear is like Caribbean, Caribbean. So in the Caribbean, yeah. And it was a seven day cruise aboard the Rhapsody of the Seas all. Expenses paid, yeah. Yeah. So they were flying from Virginia down to Puerto Rico, San Juan, where the ship was taking, taking off from. What's the word departing from? I don't know. And hello, there's so much like cruise terminology. Did you find that looking at this? Yes, definitely that I had to let.

18:20 Go. And I'm like, hold on. Wait, what? Oh, they mean the boat's going. Yeah, right, right, right. Cool, cool, cool. So any any cruisy people, we're really sorry. Our terminology could be a bit Oh. You aren't like a cruise person or yeah. Yeah, I think that's very, very true. Yeah. And anyway, so they, when they were gifted this, it was just originally for Ivor and Ron, yeah, to go for, for them as a couple. But they then asked whether they could bring along Brad, Bradley and Amy. Who were 21 and 23 at the time.

18:53 Do you think that's odd? Mm, Hmm. OK, yeah, OK. Just I'm just double checking. Yeah. So I don't know. I think the way Brad described Brad Bradley describes it is that for them, they thought maybe this was the last of their family holidays because Amy was, you know, she was embarking on a new career. Well, what was seen to be a new career with a full time job. She just, well, was about had just moved out of home. She was getting her own dog. You know, there was lots of things that were happening that was sort of meant she was like naturally, as everyone does, pulling away from the family and establishing her own adult life, right.

19:32 So I think, I think it was, it took a bit of convincing. Well, I think it would too when I see the cabin. Oh my God, yeah. That's what I kind of went and. The brother and sister, anyway. We'll talk about that in one SEC. Yeah, but basically Ron and IVA asked their boss could we bring our kids along? And. They're not kids that. Long Yep, Yep, Yep, sorry. They're adults and they said the boss said Yep, absolutely because to be honest it wouldn't have cost them that much more no to shove 2 more bodies in that tiny.

20:03 Literally what they Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, because of the way this came about, they both departed Virginia. Sorry. The four of them departed Virginia on the same day, but not on the same flight. So Ron and IVA went first and then I think about an hour later was Amy and Bradley Bradley's flight, right? But Brad Bradley says that Amy was quite apprehensive. Neither he nor her like to. Fly like to fly, you know, like she and Amy doesn't like heights. And yeah. Yes. So they were both very nervous about this.

20:38 Originally like because Amy was very like, yeah, apprehensive to even go for that exact that reason. Like at least I don't really like flying on it. Yeah, I don't really wanna go. Yeah, but then also apparent, according to all of her, all members of her family, she hated being in open water. Yeah. So although she was a very proficient swimmer, yeah, she did not like swimming in the ocean. Well, give her a pool any day. That's the thing, I know I'll come back to it. Ocean swimming is incredibly different to pool swimming.

21:07 Absolutely, but even she just didn't like what was in no potentially in the water. Sharks and it's even like to the point of like, like personally, I'm an ocean swimmer. I love the ocean. Me too, I hate rivers. Oh no, I won't go in a river. Oh, same. No. So I think people like, I think they will just go, but she's a swimmer. Yeah, it's different. There's differences and there's things that people don't feel comfortable with, and I can completely get it that she was not fond of open water. Yeah, there's even a story that they tell about on this particular trip, like this is going ahead just a little bit, but it's it's pertinent to what we're talking about now.

21:43 She they, they went to a beach. Yeah. And this was in Aruba, where the water is crystal clear, right? Yeah. Apparently she walked into the ocean to knee height and then jumped on her dad's back because she was like, I can't go anymore. I just don't want to be in here anymore. Yeah. So it's not about swimming necessarily in that respect, either. She just didn't like being in the ocean. No, whereas I'd be like get me there now. Same. I will be in that water all day. Jumping off the boat and oh Yep, loving it.

22:12 Yeah, anyway, so, so that's what basically what happened. They stayed the night when they arrived in San Juan and the next morning boarded the Rhapsody of the Seas. So that was on the Saturday, March 21st in 1998. Yeah. So the Rhapsody of the Seas is a huge, at the time, I think it was the second biggest cruise liner in existence at the time. I don't know. 1000 plus passengers and yeah, is it 8800? 800 cruise. It's a massive amount of people in a in on. I mean, they're the, the boat is huge, but I mean, they're also like sardines a little bit in terms of the, the space you do get in your cabins.

22:46 I mean, yeah, I've not cruised much. I've been on a couple of little mini, mini mini overnight. Like really not multiple days even. And it's not my thing. No, no, no, after I think I've probably mentioned it in the podcast, I went on a few couple of night cruise earlier this year and at the end of it I think I even said to you, I'm like, I don't think it's for me. No my. Parents love Cruise. Yeah, I've got. Friends who really love it, Yep. But I just can't I think of anything worse, personally. Yeah, it's just me.

23:16 And I love the ocean. Yeah, exactly. But you don't get to be in the ocean. No, Giant Cruise 1 isn't necessarily. I mean, if you're going around the Caribbean, Yes, one of the cruises, Peter and I did a cruise on our honeymoon around the Caribbean. So all of the places that they talk to talk about here, we've been to. Wow. Yeah. And it is what you think it is? It is white sandy beaches. It is crystal clear warm water. It's just absolutely delightful heaven. But then they're all set up for cruise ships.

23:46 These places are set up for cruise ships to come into, right? To spend the day, for people to spend the day. And I think what you don't see is the stuff that happens behind that strip of, of shops and color and fun and all of that because people don't venture beyond. No. So you know, we, it's, yeah, it's set up for a certain purpose. And yes. Yeah, and yeah, there's the show and then there's the reality. I. Think that's really. What you sort of, Yeah, absolutely. Yep. So they have boarded the Rhapsody of the Seas and there's a photo of the four of them on the gangway on the way in.

24:25 Do you have you seen that photo? I'm sure you have. What do you think of their expressions in that photo? Did did it stand out to you at all? Anything. Yeah, I don't know if it's it's a hindsight thing or not. Yeah, you know, like. Knowing now what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. What do you think? I just feel like, and I actually feel like maybe this is just Amy, this is might be just her, but I don't feel like you know, you can smile with your lips, but not with your eyes. Yes, yes, I that's the vibe I get from a lot of the photos I see I. Just you get a vibe of your of like, do you feel like I don't really want to be here?

25:03 Yeah, yeah. And my mum and dad delighted. Very, very, very happy, very. And even Brad, like Brad Bradley even is like quiet, you know, like, you know, eager and excited looking kind of thing. But I don't know. Yeah, I do sort of think with Amy, like there's something. But is it like, and then, I don't know, are we looking at it through a lens of, Oh, well, yeah, we're looking for something. Yeah, I mean everyone. I mean, God, I don't like photo photos. Like, oh God, I'm like a bitch, you know? So like, it's just maybe she doesn't.

25:36 And that's what I was thinking because I'm like, or maybe like, you know how? And Peter is like this, actually, he's like, I don't know how to smile in a photo. Like when when my photo, like, what do I do in my arm? Is this a nice smile? Like. So maybe she was just awkward having a camera pointed at her face. Yeah. So just quickly, before they boarded the plane, at the plane, the boat, the ship, Amy bought some postcards in Puerto Rico, sent them back to her friends with messages like, hey, we're here, we're about to board.

26:03 We're so excited. I'll see you in a week. Yeah. And she also bought, I think it was like 12 rolls of camera film because she was a bit of an amateur photographer and wanted to thought she'd be able to capture some really beautiful well. She wanted to like, put together like a coffee book for her new house that she was, you know, you're gonna be putting together, you know, moving into a new house. And so she was like, I'll have a coffee book table, you know, you know, coffee table. Book table. Book Oh my God yeah that she can put on there on there to let you know be like it was a holiday which I think that's lovely idea and I think you'd also entered a photography competition too I. Believe so, yeah.

26:41 Yeah, oh man, back in the days we had to buy rolls of film to do that. And then have them develop before you knew if they were any good. Oh yeah, you get that film. Go. Fingers crossed. Oh, my. Everything was a bit overexposed or underexposed or whatever. Exposed. Yeah, God, yeah. So anyway, they've boarded the Rhapsody of the Seas and the first two nights were actually at sea. So they put pushed off from port and spent two days just on the ship. And they, by all accounts, they made the most of those two days and took part in all of the activities that were offered on the ship.

27:18 That's part of the stuff that I I just literally cannot stand. To me, too, I hear about this and I'm like, I would rather be in my room watching a movie or at the OR at the poolside maybe, maybe reading a book. Yeah, that that's, that'd be me, Gus. I mean the, you know, themed nights and shit, you can shove it. You hate to dress up. I cannot stand to dress up. Yeah, no, not my thing at all. Even like, even just like the formal night. Like my favorite thing I've ever been told on holidays, right, was when we were shown to our room in this very nice place when I was overseas.

27:55 And I said to them, like, you know, the restaurants and things were a bit further over from where our cabin was, had to walk fair distance. You know, you get little like buggy things and that. And I said, oh, like you need to wear shoes all the time in the like when you're in the buggy and stuff. And he's like, your holiday, don't wear shoes if you don't want to wear shoes. I went, well, I know when we get to the restaurant, whatever, it's your holiday. I went what? And he goes, no, like whatever this was, it was a it was a fancy place.

28:25 And I was like, oh, I'm this, this is the kind of fancy I like that I I roll. Yeah, I do what I want to do. Could. You go to a restaurant without shoes on. I did. Because I did that I could. I loved it. Because I fucking hate shoes.

28:46 I love it. Yeah, I love it. So as opposed to a dress up, you prefer a dress down? Trackies Songs. Yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever goes. He's your holiday. Oh. Yeah. I and I was like. Yeah, yeah, I'm making the most of this. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Because you. Wear whatever you want. And yeah, yeah. And so I was with it. I went, what, do I have to wear a shirt? And he's like, no, for a holiday.

29:12 He's like, yeah, OK, best ever. Love it, love. It So yeah, I don't want your formal night. Yeah, I just want to be on holiday. Yes. Yeah, Yeah. That's comfort and relaxing. Yeah. Look, Amy and Brad Bradley had actually taken, you know, advantage of a lot of the offerings to the younger crowd although there. Was a much of A younger crowd. I was gonna. Say that although there weren't many of them it it did mean that they met. I guess they met most of the other young people on board. Exactly. They were.

29:43 It was kind of like being beacons of light to each other of like, where are my people? Well, you're under the age of 50. I'll. I'll go and strike up a conversation with you. Yeah. And according to family and even people from the cruise, Amy was really friendly. Yeah. He would go up and talk to people and make friends and and certainly wasn't one to sort of shy away from social interaction. As they say, unfortunately, like, you know, people who light up a room, things don't, you know, good things don't come to those people, do they?

30:13 Yeah, for always says there's people who disappear or whatever, get murdered then. Oh, she lit up a room. So I will never light up a room, OK? I think that's just something people. Say I know, but I think they genuinely meant it about her. Like she sounded like she was someone who with. And again, I have to say, just because someone does that in person doesn't mean there's a whole lot of stuff underneath. So I don't think we can take for granted that everything was fine because she could walk into a room and be overly social.

30:41 That doesn't mean that's who you are at your core. So but yes, according to everyone she was someone who would arrive at a party and be center of attention at the party and have and everyone else would have fun being with. Her, yeah. So on this particular night, so this is, are we at the 23rd now? Yes. Yep. So the 23rd of of March, Yeah. In 1998, it was the formal night. Yeah. So during that day, sorry, sorry. Very early that morning when they woke up, they had already docked overnight in Aruba.

31:13 Yeah. And the four of them got off the ship and they didn't actually have anything planned, You know, on cruises, you can book shore excursions and stuff like that. They hadn't done anything for Aruba in particular. So they ended up renting a car. And I think it's like one of those Jeep, like a Jeep type thing that didn't have a roof or anything like that. Yeah. And they were just driving around Aruba. Now we're talking pre mobile phones or pre satellite navigation on your mobile phones. Yeah. And they were driving around.

31:44 They got themselves lost in, like, the basically in the desert of Aruba. Yeah. And anyway, eventually found their way to the beach, which is where I was telling you about how Amy hopped on her dad's back because she didn't want to go in the water there. Yeah. And anyway, apparently they got back to the ship at whatever time and they were all exhausted and probably had heat stroke to be honest with you because they were roasting in the sun all day. But yeah, apparently Brad Bradley said he was so sunburnt.

32:11 Like, yeah. And so they went back to their rooms, had a bit of a disco nap at, I think he said that this was about 4:00. And then it came time eventually for them to get ready for a formal night, which was happening that night. Meg's worst nightmare. So the Bradley's cabin. I'll just give you a bit of a rundown. So you and I both actually found the same. We were talking about this just before we hit record. We actually found the same infographic about it. Because not on our socials. Yeah, please do, because it is like quite intimate.

32:44 Like. For four adults. My parents are like cruising and they often will tell me about their room, like when they go and I, I, they're always so small. Like you've got, I know my mom's always talked about, you know, shuffle along the side of the bed like, you know, like get out to like the bit where you can walk around the bed then and right, you know, there's never a hell of a lot of room in these things. So then you've got four people in one of these rooms and four adults. Adults one. People where would they like, I don't even know where their luggage would have gone.

33:11 So basically you walk, walk into the door, in through the door, swipe card access to the door. They all had their own key cards. So it's actually going in obviously, but obviously not coming out. Yeah, and it didn't track like even when the doors opened or anything like that on the inside. It just was when a key card hit it to open it. Yeah, on the right hand side there was a bathroom and then there was a bed and then a pull out couch that Amy and Brad Bradley were sleeping on. Oh, kill me now. Tiny.

33:41 I got virtually inches from the pull out bed was the door to the very small balcony that had a tiny little, I'm gonna call it like a little coffee table or side table. Yeah. And then two upright chairs. Yeah. On the balcony. Oh. So yeah, upright chairs. They were upright chairs. I don't know if they could then be, you know how sometimes you can, they have the things on them and you can lean the documentary in furs. It's more of a lounge chair, doesn't it? It? It absolutely does. And I did push that in many places where I was reading things kind of going is it all, isn't it?

34:18 So I haven't seen photos of the chair but I did look into this because I thought the same thing. Like was it a lounge chair? But there wouldn't have been space to have two. Lounge chairs on that balcony, I felt like the space didn't accommodate it, but then a lot of places refer to it being a lounge there and I'm like, I just don't buy it. Don't believe so. No, I'm not saying that the chair, the back of the chairs couldn't recline, but they weren't like full sun lounge. Yeah, if you know what I mean.

34:44 Yeah, Yeah. So, all right, so that gives the layout of the room. They're getting ready for their formal night now, and it's formal. Brad Bradley is wearing a tuxedo. Yes, yeah. Black bow tie. They have the ship's photographer well. Because I mean, because back in the 90s and even early 2000s, this really goes to really that anywhere you went touristy, I remember going like going through like New York was bad for everywhere we went there. Any like tourist place you'd go before you entered into the actual place you were going, you'd have to get a photo taken and then and then you'd try and follow it to at the end.

35:29 I mean, the amount of times I got to the point where because I just I mean, I don't like a photo of myself at the best times and I couldn't and I couldn't give a shit about having a photo with a fucking, you know, digitally enhanced like image at the back of you like and. Stuff. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I'll be like, I was just can we go around like, let's just go on. I'm not gonna buy it. So, you know, and we, we'd avoid the, you know, the lineup of that area because, yeah, these places, they that's how they make money.

35:50 Like, I mean, and on a cruise ship though, you know, they've got the corner market cornered. They'll they'll try anything like get money out of you. Yeah. That there'd be photographer taking the photo that then, you know, after the fact, you go and you find your photo and you purchase it. Oh, kill me now. Oh, fuck, I know. Amy was wearing a really beautiful black, like very simple but lovely elegant black dress. Yeah. And so this is the other thing for people who don't know on cruises, Well, there's, I think there's different dining options.

36:19 But I think because Ivor and Ron were there with other people from the insurance agency who also won the same thing. And the president of the company and his wife. Yes. And they would all dine together at the same time at the same table every day. And therefore they had the same waiter, the same busboy, the same, you know, the same people were serving them every day. So they've gone to their dinner that night, had a really good time. There was a joke around the table. So there was an incident of not an incident.

36:50 There was a during the day this particular day. It must have been when they'd come back from being out and about in Aruba. What a couple of the waiters were looking for Amy and they found Amy's dad. And they said to him, oh, where's Amy? Where's Amy? We want to invite her to a club tonight like. At Aruba, in Aruba, in Aruba. So yeah, off the ship, yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah, so and he and the dad was like, oh, I don't know if Amy will really want to do that, but yeah, I'll let her know. I think it was a note they handed, yeah.

37:26 And to give to Amy to, yeah, invite her to this. Club. It's Carlos and Charlie's. Sorry, I knew I had it written down somewhere. I'm like scrapping through my notes. Carlos and Charlie's now. This is the same bar that Natalie Holloway disappeared from in 2005. Yeah. So we'll, we'll do a, a case on Natalie Holloway absolutely at some point. Yes. But yeah, that's this case, sort of it. Just kind of gives you a bit of an idea of maybe it wasn't like the nicest of places. Yeah. But anyway, Amy. Have been like the place to go to like, you know what I mean?

37:57 It might have been. Doesn't mean they're the nicest places that you know. No, that's true necessarily. Yep, that's true. And Amy basically says, oh, look, I'm not. I'm not to her dad. I'm not really interested. They're a bit sleazy. Yeah. And now, should we talk about Amy's past relationships at this point? Do you? Think, well, yeah, there's a bit around that. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So Amy had come out to her parents and Brad Bradley. Of 1995. Yes, it was 3:00-ish years before the cruise, and so it came out as being gay.

38:34 And the family, they're a very Catholic family, especially IVA, and they didn't really take it all that well. No, they sort of say, you know, oh, no, like, you know, of course we love her and you know, and all these sorts of things. And but you can sense you can sense a real well. Ron's words were around. It was like, we didn't want that for her, but we love we love Amy. Like so I think there was a very much like, oh, like they just didn't really know what to do with that information, I feel. They said they were not happy and they were disappointed, but it's Amy's life.

39:12 It wasn't. It wasn't what we would choose for her, but it's her life and we loved her unconditionally. Yeah. But then Ron also sent a three page letter to Amy's current girlfriend at that time. Yeah, that basically outlined his disgust in the fact that they were in a relationship and how like he he thought that this girl had corrupted Amy. I feel I feel interesting how he's he can he can do that and say that to her to the girlfriend, but I feel like that's stuff he wanted to say to Amy, you know, and he hey.

39:50 Did he? I what I don't think he did. I think he he said it to the girlfriend, right? To, you know, so that he didn't have to say it to Amy because I but I love Amy. So Amy, Amy's OK, but I told the, you know, this girlfriend's fault and putting it over there, right? It made it less, you know, that's not my daughter. That's. Created this or whatever or, you know, yeah. She had several girlfriends before she came, as before she came out absolutely. So it wasn't her first relationship. Woman and even the woman who, you know, received that letter has spoken and she's on the documentary as well.

40:22 But she she has said that Amy was the one who was keen to come out to her parents. And I don't know that she had actually come out to her family yet. OK, so she was a little bit more. Yeah, you know, like it because it was in the 90s and it wasn't as accepted as it is now to how to do that. It's hard to imagine that that would be such a thing, or that. I mean, I know to this day people struggle this reaction absolutely. But it's, I guess I, you know, thankfully it's less. I would, I would hope so.

40:48 I would hope, I mean, I hope we get to a day where people don't have to. Come out exactly. It's ridiculously that's even. Like, yeah, exactly. So, I mean, yeah, as I say, my boys can bring home whoever, whoever they bring home and meet the family or they've found someone they love. Like, that's great. They love that person. Yeah. Yeah. So I found it really interesting that he he really did let loose in that letter, those that very lengthy letter. And I wonder whether that's really what he wanted to say to Amy.

41:13 Yeah, I feel like he downplays that letter in that. Big time. In the documentary though, and I just questioned whether also things were said to Amy about it. Yeah, she definitely would have had an opinion of it, like, you know, known about it. Known about opinion, yeah, yeah. So anyway, they're they're at this formal night and you know, the these waiters had seen the dad earlier in the day. Oh, should we go? Sorry, go back to that. Sorry. So yeah, she's come out as gay. However, there is a boyfriend that's has come out in public now.

41:49 He was apparently interviewed for the documentary and they chose not to use the footage that they had for that. Yeah. Which I find interesting. Yeah. And why they did that. So there's, and this is where I think gets a little bit murky in terms of like whether she was bisexual or whether it was a relationship that she felt was being forced upon her, not forced upon her. Sounds really awful. But I guess sort of, you know. To keep her like to meet her parentation or something. Yeah, you know, well, she actually, you know, genuinely lesbian and, you know, but wanting to keep the family happy that Oh no, I'm seeing a guy like.

42:24 So I don't know. We don't know whether she's truly bisexual because she did have a girlfriend that she was saying that they'd had a rough time. She'd she had cheat, like not cheated cheated, but she had kissed another girl and they were having some issues, but they were really trying to work that out. And the plan was that when she was coming back from, she'd given this girl a letter that it was quite an interesting wording in this letter. And I found I find the the language in it interesting that we can come back to that they were going to plan.

42:54 The plan was that they were going to get back together when they came back from the trip. However, it's come out now that the whole time that was going on, she had a boyfriend. I find that all very. Weird. It's odd. It's very odd. Yeah, and I don't there's certain people who are like, really like, oh, see, like, you know, she, she wasn't lesbian. She was bisexual at best, you know, but she was, she liked men. Do we really? Does that actually matter? I look and I feel. I feel for her because I think that there's something in this that.

43:25 I think so too. Yeah, I think so too. All right, so she's received these unwanted advances, I guess, from these waiters who had been looking after them for the first couple of days and of the cruise. And even on the night of the formal night, the family and the people they were dining with were joking that if anyone needed anything, just get Amy to ask because it'll come quicker and you'll probably get more of it or whatever. Yeah, because she's certainly garnered the attention of people on the ship, but.

43:55 And men on the ship. Not to say, you know, that shouldn't deserve the attention, but we did say there's not many young people on the ship. So I mean, if there's someone who's more the age of the waiters, the waiting staff and other people who work on this crew on a on the ship, you know, like, yeah, they're, they're like, Oh yeah, we've got one that's like, you know, maybe possibly within our age break. Yeah. You know, there's 70 year olds. Yeah, that they can hang out with. I'm not shocked at that at all.

44:22 And I think, and she's an attractive girl, and that's right, you know, why not? They were interested. I get it. But at the same time, if they advances weren't wanted, she certainly had her boundary. And yeah, put it up. Yeah. Oh, she should did all the right things. Yeah. So when the formal night, sorry, when the formal dinner kind of finished after that there was a party on the pool deck. Yes. And it was called like under the stars or something like this. See Party under the stars Like fucking worst nightmare.

44:51 Oh. They played Limbo. At at around this point, I think Brad Bradley and Ron went back to the room to start changing and I think Amy and her mum went up to the photo to find the photos of them. Yeah. And they went up and the photographer. So this was the ship's photographer said, oh, yeah, I remember taking the photos of you because. Because there'd been an interaction where the photographer had taken a photo of Brad Bradley, taken an individual photo of Amy, and then said, oh, let's have one with your boyfriend.

45:24 Yeah. And she was like, Oh no, no, he's my little brother. The photo. Does look quite. Oh, it looks like they could be a couple for sure. They're holding hands and like facing each other. It's not like a sibling photo. I'd be putting my photo up at my brother. Absolutely. Touch me formal. We're notwithstanding. Like, yeah. So anyway, that Mum, Ivor and Amy have gone up to find the photos. And as I said, the photographer was like, yeah, yeah, I remember taking the photos of you. I've just developed them.

45:50 They're here somewhere and they go to where the photos were laid out and the photos of Amy and of the rest of the family were all missing. And he's like, that's weird because he remembered printing them out. He remembered laying them out and now they're not there like within half an hour or something. Like it wasn't a huge amount of time. I don't know how much I buy that. Yep. Oh, this is this is their story. Right, that's what that's so that's the parents like story. That is not they haven't spoke.

46:22 No one's spoken to the photographer who has said that's what I said to the family, because if you think about it, 2000 plus. Guests on this. Can I just say though, IVA has the receipt where she asked for the photos to be reprinted. Oh. Yeah, I'm not saying she couldn't find them. Oh, right there. I just questioned whether like there's validity to like had they been printed already and or had they not, or had they been taken by someone else? Like really? Did the person at the shop there like go, Oh, I, you know, like, I don't know, I, I don't 2000 people on that ship.

46:56 Yeah. And photos of, you know, what 90% of them like and that they're dealing with, Are you going to remember putting those specific photos on the shelf and be like, you know, oh, they were there a second ago. Like I just, I don't know how much I buy into that. OK, yeah, OK. I'm sort of a bit like if you plonking them out on that shelf for not really paying attention. You've been seen 2000 last week when they had another 2000 on the ship. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I get that. But this photographer had not long taken the photos of them.

47:30 Yeah, but still, it's a lot of photos. Yeah, but it wouldn't have been 2000 people in one go. You know they all have different seating times, but. Yeah, but he they would have done all those seatings. Probably by then, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I I, I think it's that whole thing is a bit suss. And the fact that she's got the IVA to this day has the receipt that says that the photos had to be reprinted. I think, I think that leads gives a bit more weight to to it. We can discuss this later. When we talk about our theories.

48:01 So all right, they've then gone back down to their cabin to get changed for the formal, changed out of their formal gear and into like more casual stuff so they can go to the party under the stars, AKA Meg's worst nightmare. And so they're in the I mean, even just how would you get changed in a room with four adults, you know, and like the bathroom is. The showering, the the getting changed, all of it. I'm like in this tiny little room, let alone the fucking snoring. You'd have to take some really heavy duty earplugs.

48:37 So I mean the the eventual outcome of this night and not I mean in terms of where they all end up sleeping kind of stuff, I kind of go, yeah, I get it. Yeah, me too. Me too. Yeah. So all right, now they all go up. The four of them go up, get changed. They go up to this party under the stars. I think by this stage, it was about 10:30 or 11:00 at night. And what they noticed is that there were a lot more people at this party who they assumed had boarded from Aruba. Yes, they weren't passengers. There was a a a band that they had brought on specifically.

49:13 Calypso Band. Yeah, but then they seemed to be just like other locals. Who on the ship as well, Yeah. We're not quite sure what for. No, there was certainly. I think some people said they were like, it was almost 90 people, yeah. And who were just like, coming on to enjoy the show, like kind of stuff. OK, yeah. They weren't there with the with the band necessarily. It was just they were local. Imagine that they would just let people on the ship without. I can back in the 90s. Yeah, pre it would happen now there's.

49:41 No way it would happen now. Yeah, but I can see that happening. Yeah, OK. When I think about travel back in those days. You're right. I'm thinking about it from a Yeah, a 2025 lens, not a 1998 lens. Yeah. OK. So anyway, the the calypso band Blue Orchid are playing and having a really good time. Everyone's having a dance and, you know, having some drinks and, you know, having a party. And there's video of this party and people are doing the conga. They're. Yeah. You know, it is very, very lively.

50:15 Yeah. There's a limbo competition. Who wins the limbo competition, Meg? Brad Bradley? Yeah, he does. Oh, man, how embarrassing. Imagine that being your legacy of the cruise. I won the limbo competition. Team and he got a crown. Yeah, because you were like the youngest person there by far. No one else's knees would be able. To do that was limbo. Yeah, So good on you, Brad. Brad Bradley, that is 1 to take. And yeah, anyway, he got this like gross crown. Yeah, wearing it, gave it to Amy to wear for a little bit.

50:49 And then they, what he noticed over, you know, the other side of the party is that Amy was actually talking to two women. So two women who had not been on board beforehand, they presumably come on board with this group of people from Aruba who know. We don't know, but there were two black women. They were both dressed identically so they had these Navy blue skirts and light blue short sleeved button up shirts. So in like a uniform. Yes, So they don't know like I've heard speculation that it could have been like were they police officers?

51:26 Were they like, I don't that people don't know they they weren't descript. I think if you're a police officer somewhere, your uniform would say police. Yeah, but. Even in, you know, language. Even in Aruba. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. But anyway. And apparently the conversation between Amy and these two women was really jovial, like they were laughing and having a good time and. But she talked to them for over an hour. And then IVA and Ron decided, oh, fuck this shit, I'm going to bed. Yeah, it's really.

51:59 I'm really tired. And the calypso band had finished playing at this point. I think they finished playing just after midnight. Yes. And Ivor and Ron walked over to Amy, who was talking to these women. And then they say as soon as they walked over to Amy to let her know that they were going back to the room, the women kind of shut down, stepped away and didn't say a word. And they just thought that was a bit odd. And anyway, but didn't really think that much more of it. They've gone back to their room and gone to bed.

52:33 Bradley and Amy continue the night. There's a nightclub on the ship that's on the top level I believe and they it's called like the Viking Club or something like. That yeah, the Viking Club. Yeah, and. Should we just say sorry like at that 1:00 time too when the parents went off to bed? The ship also departs Aruba, so anyone who was on the ship from Aruba would have exited at that point. So should have whatever. Yeah. So they there was like a midnight buffet that sort of people went to from that party.

53:09 And then, yeah, about 1:00 AM, the the ship departed Aruba to head toward Curacao. The other thing that I think is probably worth noting as well is that all crew had to be back in there unless they were working, had to be back in their crew quarters by 1:00 AM as well. That was mandated. By the ship, yeah. So I'm talking the calypso band and all of that. So yeah, they finished playing at 12:00. They've then got about an hour to go and have a drink, do what they wanted to do before they the curfew was implicable.

53:38 You mean the blue orchid? Blue Orchid. That's what I meant. What did I say? The calypso banned because they would have exited the boat OK. I thought they were the same thing. No, no, sorry, no. So the Calypso group were who'd come on from Aruba. Oh, OK. But the ship's banned was the Blue Orchard. OK, yeah, sorry I've got myself mixed up. Yeah, they've gone. So everyone's kind of then departed from this deck into the Viking Ware. 24 hour nightclub isn't it? No, it closed at 3:00 AM. I've seen it written, yeah, everywhere that it was a 24 hour nightclub, 24 hour nightclub.

54:12 But someone somewhere else I saw that it closed at 3:00. My sorry open pretty early in the morning. Or maybe it is 24 hour and just save people live. Left places it was 24 hours. Yeah, same. Yeah. But then I think Brad Bradley says that it closed at 3:00. I think no. I've heard him say it in in the interview that it was a 20. 4 hour. Oh, OK, All right. Maybe I've got which head to me wasn't quite right. I mean, yeah, 24 hour nightclub. Is that what we need? Well. There's one in Melbourne, I've been there a few times.

54:41 At 3:30 in the morning? Well, that's the only time you'd go to a 24 hour nightclub. Oh no. There are people there in the middle of the afternoon like Which? Oh, weird. Yeah. Anyway, So what they also, sorry, just going back before they go to the nightclub, Amy is also seen talking to a member of the Blue Orchid band called Alastair Douglas. He went by the name nicknamed Yellow because apparently at some point he had yellow hair. Yeah. OK. He yeah. They were seen chatting after the set and then they've all gone up to to the Viking.

55:18 Amy orders a beer there. We know that for sure because she ordered it on her card, a light beer. She was according to where did I write this quote? There's a quote about that. Brad Bradley says she was a Miller Lite and Marlboro Lights kind of a gal. Okay, okay. She did say that she could hold her drink more than he could, but they but wouldn't consider them drinkers. Yeah, they're not heavy drinkers, but she she could definitely drink a few more than he could like. But if you're. Ordering light light beers.

55:47 I mean this is it. You could probably drink them most of the night and not really get too. Yeah, so, yeah. So now we're at the Viking Club and they have all having a bit of a dance. The other thing we have haven't mentioned yet as well is that there was actually another film crew on the ship at the time. Yeah. And these were, they were a private film crew that were hired by another company who was there on an incentive trip for their employees. And this private film crew were hired to take footage of the employees and then put together a video presentation at the end of the cruise to show everyone how much of a great time everyone had.

56:26 And, you know, I guess make whatever, make the most of this. So this private crew were going around filming random bits and pieces throughout the entire seven day period and going back editing things in their room and whatever. And so they were actually at the Viking Club that night or that very early morning, and they caught footage of Amy on the dance floor dancing with Yellow. Yeah. And they're having a good old boogie. I mean, how like it's if Amy had never gone missing, we would never have had to have seen that footage and no one would need to be any the wiser.

57:05 No, but the whole world has now seen that footage and you just think, oh God, I just hope I never go missing. No, don't feel me dancing. Dancing. Yeah, anyway. And it's kind of hard because you can't really hear the music in the footage either. So it's just, it's like when you see movies being made and without the sound. Yeah, put to it. Yeah, put to it, yeah. And everyone's like dancing to nothing like. You have no beat. Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right. Or try to keep different timings, yeah? So Amy's seen dancing with Yellow, and then later on she's seen dancing with someone else in the in the footage as well.

57:40 According to Brad, he feels like he needs a bit of fresh air and he goes outside to the pool deck, which is just, I think, oh, not even the pool deck, sorry, just a deck which is just outside of the the nightclub. Yeah. And he sits there for about half an hour, gathers his thoughts. I think he was talking to a couple of. Girls a couple of. Girls. Yeah. And then he decides at 3:30 or a bit before 3:30 AM, yeah, to go back down to the room. He doesn't tell Amy he's going back to the room. He just goes.

58:08 His key card is swiped at their door at exactly 3:35 AM, and then Amy's key card was swiped literally exactly 5 minutes later. 34503 Sorry, Brad. Brad's key. Brad, where is at 3:40? Oh, OK. And then hers is at 3:45. OK, so it's 5 minutes apart. Yeah. That they were. Yeah. That their key cards were swiped. Yeah. And Brad said that he when he got into the room, he actually went straight out to the balcony because to have a cigarette. Yeah. And kind of calm down, I guess, wind down from the night. Yeah.

58:46 And then, lo and behold, Amy's there. So she's out there having it there, having a smoke together, having a chat, talking about the night. Brad Bradley claims that Amy said that she was dancing with Yellow and that Yellow had tried to touch her chest and it made her feel really uncomfortable, but she wasn't distressed by it. She was just kind of telling him, oh, it was like, a bit creepy. Yeah. I didn't really like it. Yeah. Brad Brad sort of his opinion of sort of like how it was said was that it was a just a passing comment of like, oh, this happened like kind of thing.

59:16 And neither of them. He said he was a very protective brother, but it didn't give him the, you know, all I need to go and, you know, speak to this guy. Can I? Imagine looking at Brad Bradley, Yellow and looking at Brad. I don't know that that would have gone down. No, but he was definitely like, you know, he goes. I didn't think anything of it that, you know, you've it just yeah of it. She had, she had handled it like kind of thing, you know? And I was dealt with. She could handle her own. Like, I feel I did get that sense from listening to like, even her friends, you know, I think she was, you know, very.

59:45 She wasn't a shrinking Violet. No, no. Yeah, she knew she had a boundary and yeah, she. And that was that was that. No. Thanks mate, off you go. Brad then says that he decides to go to bed. Yeah. And Amy said that she was feeling a little unwell and wanted to sort of sleep out in the fresh air on the balcony. Fresh air. Yeah. Fresh air on the balcony. So two things here. We know from her card and her purchases throughout that night that in eight hours she'd had seven light beers that she'd purchased.

1:00:21 Yes. We don't know if anyone else had bought her drinks or put something in a drink. Something in a drink. We don't know. We don't know that we know for sure that she had seven light beers over 8 hours. So what? She wouldn't have been drunk. No, that's yeah, yeah. We also know, obviously, that she came back the time of the time that she came back. We know roughly the time Brad went to bed. Now. He said he went to bed because he was like, Oh my God, we've got to get up. They were on their way to Curacao and they decided, I think they were deciding whether to go jet skiing or go on a glass bottom boat.

1:00:58 Yeah, they knew they were docking really early. So they were like, and they had to have breakfast by a certain time because of the docking. Like it, it impacted those sorts of things. Yeah, I think they were serving breakfast from 5:30 AM, so they so. That people could exit the boat and get doing their day like. Yeah, and actually make the most of the day. I'm sure some of the shore excursions probably would have been that entire day. Exactly. So they Brad goes off to sleep in the pull out couch and Amy's, you know, falling asleep on the well, on the chair in the balcony.

1:01:31 Yeah. When Brad goes into the room, he shuts the door, the balcony door, and goes off to sleep. Yeah. At 5:30 AM, Yeah. Ron wakes up and just enough to sort of be like, oh, is everyone here? And he sees Brad in the bed next to him, because he would have. Been like oh. Pretty much like. Right up against his face. Like not. A lot of space between them. No. And then he's like, oh, where's Amy? And then he said he sees her from basically the knee down, sees her outside. Yeah. So he's like, OK, fine.

1:02:04 Goes back to sleep, kind of been that deeply, but goes back to sleep because at six, AMI think he wakes up and he notices that Amy's gone now. She's not on the balcony. The door is, According to him, 10 to 12 inches open. Open just a smidge. A smidge and her Birkenstocks, her shoes that she'd been wearing most days were on, were still outside, but her cigarettes and her key card and lighter and lighter were gone. Yeah, so he's like, oh, maybe she's gone to. What she's pull into port, you know, kind of thing, which sounds.

1:02:45 Makes sense coffee. Like, sober up a bit, if that's kind of what he was thinking. And he noticed too, that she the shirt that she the T-shirt she like had on the night before, like the yellow top, you can see her in the in the nightclub wearing that was on the back of a chair inside inside. So he'd assumed she'd gotten changed that, yeah, she was wearing obviously something different, but yeah. Then he thought, I'll go check and wait, go find her around the around the ship and join her. Yeah. He looks around the ship for an hour, yeah, and can't find her.

1:03:17 About half an hour after he started looking for her, he encountered a security officer. And he said to the security officer, oh, look, I can't find my daughter, which is unusual to him. He was. And the security officer basically said to him, keep looking and if you can't find her, then you need to go to the purse's office to sort of report anything. I don't even think they got to that part of the conversation actually. Ron keeps then looking for about 1/2 an hour more and then he's like holy fuck, panic stations.

1:03:54 I can't find her. I'm going to go back to the room. I guess he probably went on. Maybe she's gone back to the room and we've missed each other somewhere. He goes back and he wakes IVA up. So he goes back. She's not there, Amy's not there. He wakes IVA up and by touching her on the foot and she says IVA says that she could tell immediately that something was wrong. Based by the look on his face, she's never seen him look like that before, which I this is

1:04:23 we're just going with what they're saying at the moment. We'll talk about this. We will absolutely talk about this. So Ivor gets up and they wake Brad and they basically say, Brad, you stay here in case she comes back. We'll go and look and have a look around. So they're again looking around the ship. They report her missing at seven O 2. So when they report her missing though, and I kind of get this, they reported missing and they say our daughter, 23 years old, is missing. And they're like, oh, Yep, just keep looking.

1:04:59 Maybe keep looking. And they actually say to them and then as well look for another half an hour. If she's still not back, come back and we'll we'll notify whoever the head of security is. Yeah, they do that. They come back. Because they kept, they sort of said, we don't want to put out an announcement this hour of the morning. Like people are still sleeping. And any announcement they were going to put out was going to go into the rooms as well as the general, you know, area areas, the common areas.

1:05:25 So I can understand that a little bit. I cannot be, especially for a grown adult. You're not looking for a child. I, I I. If it was a 7 year old, yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Yeah. But they were sort of like, oh, you know, she's probably just, you know, at a different bar or I, I can understand this thinking in me, too. So they were like, yeah, no, just keep looking like, you know, come back to us later, but we don't want to A call out just yet and alarm people who are in bed still. Yeah. Yeah. And the ship was pulling into Curacao at this time.

1:05:53 So I think 720, the ship actually docks. Yeah. No, sorry. 6:00 AM they docked. Yeah, yes. So they do pop the gangway down at and I think they opened the doors at about 7:00. 2720 they opened the doors so we're talking, you know, like they've literally they've reported a missing at 702 being told, you know, like just keep looking, you know, we're not putting out an announcement. And so they're sort of basically, they're already really saying, but we need to stop people getting off the ship, which I, I find that.

1:06:19 I find that odd, too. Yeah, they're like you. You. You can't open the doors. You can't let people out. You've got to put. Out an announcement in hindsight, yes, I understand it, yeah, but that's knowing what we know now like yeah. They didn't know. Get it? But they didn't know like that. Yeah. So I can understand the ship in their take on it at the time going. We need to let people do their holiday. Like you need to find your daughter. Yeah. There's no urgency from their from the ship's behalf at this point in that.

1:06:46 And they're like, oh, well, you know, we're no, we're going to open the gangways and let people out like. But they're already like Ron and Ivor are like, no, no, you need to keep everyone here and we need to find her. And you know, yes, I do find that. Interesting. I find that really interesting too. At this point, they've also said to Brad you need to look around the ship as well. Yeah, he goes to the deck. I think it was Deck 2 where passengers are departing. Yeah. And he actually goes to the other side of the ship where it's like this, the seaside, so not where the gangway is, but the other side of the ship.

1:07:20 And he, what he sees is a big, like massive open area of the ship where they're taking off rubbish and taking off whatever, like sheets and towels and stuff to be laundered and bringing on fresh food and whatever else is needed to replace that, probably fresh linens and stuff. He finds that very to him, this is a very important thing that he has witnessed. We will again get to that when we discuss the theories around what's happened. Yeah, but what I think is bizarre is if Ron and IVA are so adamant for people not to be getting off the ship, If that were me and I had that sentiment and I felt that strongly, I would go and stand on that gangway and look at every single person who got off because there was 1 exit point.

1:08:05 Was there only one exit? 1? Because that's what's gonna say. Even if there was 3, there's three of you. Each of you go and stand at an exit point. I was like, how many exits could there have been? There was 1. So yeah, one even like 3 of you plant yourselves one either side of that. Just watch everyone exit. Yep. But I do understand there was obviously other places where crew, oh, sorry, crew were obviously doing things with people from Carousel in terms of like maintenance of the ship, things like, yeah, as you were just saying.

1:08:31 And there was definitely people who were crew or not crew entering and exiting that ship at that point in time. Because another aspect of this is that we can talk a little bit about is like the fact that this in this time frame, passports weren't really like looked at closely and all those sorts of things that people were able to like this boat wasn't considered to be another country as such that, you know, they, they would just come and go off that ship. It's it was very easy for people to do that.

1:09:02 Yeah. So I know by the time I went on my cruise to the Caribbean, which was in 2012, yeah, when we got off the ship, they scanned our passports and then when we got back on the ship, we had to scan our passports again. So I'm assuming none of that happened, no? I remember back in this sort of time frame, I remember being on a tour a little bit earlier, 2000 still, but I'm still, I mean, I remember being on a tour thing where we're changing country and we literally just all handed our passports to the tour guide and he went off to a centre somewhere, I don't even know where all their passports came back stamped.

1:09:35 Cool. But there was no like lining up that person's that passport. I mean, and it was just a matter of like, oh, they stamped, I don't know, 30 passports and yes, 30 people walked through. Yeah, but who was who further checked to? That or anything, or that you even were the. Person who was on the path because I think the bus we were on like the bus then just drove through, you know what I mean? Like it was there was no even check of the bus or yeah, no. So I dare say this is the kind of vibe, that's the vibe of this situation of like, it's just if you've got 30 passports, I guess you've got 30 people.

1:10:05 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Yeah, or even almost. Or even not even checking the. Passcard. Yeah, you've got your key card, you can come back on. I don't even. Know no, I don't seem to any checks of anything like that. So, I mean, at this point, I guess the ship have decided that, OK, we'll put out an announcement now. Yeah. And what time did that announce? I think that was about 30 minutes after the gangway had been. Gone down. Yeah. Oh yeah. Actually it was at 7:50. Yeah, right. So everyone, there were definitely people who had exited at that time already, but not everyone, like, you know, not everyone was hankering at the bit at 7:20 to go out on that gangway.

1:10:40 And I'm sure that's the thing where you go, like you could have just stood there and watched you left because I'm sure they were dribbling out at that hour. Yeah. Not, you know, lining up. Not lining up. So over the loudspeaker they said will Amy Bradley please come to the purses desk. That was all there was 1 announcement I think Ron. No, sorry, I think IVA waited to see and Ron kept going for a search around and trying to see what was going on. And obviously Brad was still searching too. Yeah, they yeah.

1:11:15 So at some point here too, Brad, another thing just worth noting, Brad was wandering and looking for Pete for for Amy, and he was approached by Yellow, who came up to him. And at this point they had not yet, I believe, I think they'd reported her missing, but they hadn't made the announcement yet. So Yellow said to him basically, oh, sorry to hear about your sister, which Brad didn't think too much of at the time, but in hindsight kind of went wait, wait, how did you even know that she's missing or now we.

1:11:46 Know had happened, but now we know how they know and they didn't include this in the Netflix. Dot No Correct no. So there's like this. It sounds really dodgy like at the time, but it's. It's actually not that like there was a legitimate reason that. So the the way that Yellow found out was because he was in his room and he got a phone call from the ship security to say you were seen with Amy last night. She's gone missing. Have you seen her? Do you know where she is? Do you know what might have happened to her?

1:12:15 Yeah, That's how he knew. Yeah. Yeah. Well, is it or did he actually know something? Did he know something he don't know? But he definitely was there was, he was evident, he was told that there was there was something, you know. And it was before before the. Announcement and before that announcement so and like and this thing is even beyond that happening specifically I am certain crew would talk there'd be mess of course on that ship of. Like, you know, Can you imagine the shit that they would?

1:12:38 See, I've known people who've worked on cruise ships, and apparently, yeah. It would get so fucking lost. They would have great stories. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, there's there would be so much gossip. And so the minute and I think it's well at some point it did infiltrate that into into passengers, yes, that someone had gone overboard. Yeah. And you can just imagine that careless whispers kind of style of thing happening of like it just growing from that point of like so. First it was like someone fell yeah board, and then it was like someone committed suicide, like, you know, so careless whispers.

1:13:11 And this all stem from someone gone missing. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's really has just grown and you can imagine that going on the ship and it's spreading pretty quickly. Yeah, that is without even them making an announcement that something would, you know, just spread like that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think it's also just really quickly noting as well, because looking through this with a 2025 lens, there was no CCTV footage. So it's not like they could be looking at the secure. I mean, now I'm sure every common area of a ship is.

1:13:38 Probably like, you know, you're gonna move without being on video on camera somewhere. Whereas, yeah, at this point in time there were cameras, but very few. Very few. And none of them captured Amy. No, no, certainly not after the time in which they were looking for. No, Certainly cameras were like those ones that we spoke about from the videographer that was there that we've got footage of. But like any other camera on the ship, didn't pick her up. No, no. All right, so Amy is still missing and the her parents are incredibly panicked.

1:14:09 The ship offer to do what they call a Charlie drill. Now, a Charlie drill is apparently generally used for when there's a bomb threat on an on the ship. And what it means is, or what they're supposed to do when they're going doing a Charlie drill is every single member of the crew has a responsibility to check a certain area. Yeah. And they are to check anything that is bigger than a bread box. Yeah. So basically to say like anywhere a body could be, Yep, it would be checked. Yep, yeah. Now when so at the time Amy's family thought that this was had been carried out in full in full and that Amy was not on the ship.

1:14:50 They, in fact, the ship's captain said to them, Amy is not on this ship. Yeah. So they go, holy fuck, we need to get off this ship. We need to go and look for her now in Curacao. We don't know where she is. She's not on the ship. So we've got Where else could she be? They also so the ship also then engaged with local facilities to be able to get some start looking for an ocean view of like whether or not yet did she go over yeah board and so they do start checking the sea. Yeah. And local areas in terms of where a body could wash up potentially.

1:15:27 Yeah. And they, they had very good ideas of currents and roughly where the ship was at the time that they like, they know Amy was there at 5:30, but at 6:00 she wasn't so like around that time where they would have been. Between that timeline, because we like OK, if we go by the fact of so Ron has seen her sitting on that balcony to when he's she was no longer there. You're really looking like a 30 minute window. So and so they know where the ship was based on the fact that they were going through a canal like so there's they were close to shore like either side of them.

1:16:01 In doing that. I was interested to look at that in terms. I'll put it on again. I'll put it on the socials image. Yeah. Because it does show like, you know, from what time they enter this canal at 5:00 AM. So even if Ron was out by what time he woke up, it was pretty like by 5:00 AM they were reaching that canal and entering into there. So and they were and took sort of the full hour to get through that canal. So his half hour window falls within that hour, you know. And when we're talking a canal, we're talking like you can see land both sides of you.

1:16:29 Yeah. Just keeping that in mind. Yeah. So 3. Miles, I think they said to shore at any point, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which I mean, that's, I mean that's. Far that's 4. .8 K. That's far. It's far. But it's also you're not in the middle of the ocean. No. Yeah. All right, so the Bradleys decide to get off the boat and go and look for her in Curacao because at this point they think that there is absolutely no chance. Amy's on the ship that it's been checked to the point where every stateroom has been checked.

1:17:05 Everything's been checked. What is it at that time? According to them, according to Royal Caribbean, according to the ship's captain at the time, Yeah, the so and as you said, the ship got in contact with the Dutch Caribbean Ghost Coast Guard. They did a four day search after this and literally nothing showed up. They used helicopters, a radar plane. They really did pull out all the stops to try and find a body, which I think is what they were essentially looking for at this. Point. Yeah, Unfortunately, yeah.

1:17:41 Initially, the authorities suspected that Amy had either fallen overboard or died by suicide because I guess that's probably the most likely thing or the most common thing that would happen on a on a cruise ship. Yeah. But then, you know, later on, investigators basically stated that there was no evidence that Amy fell overboard. So it's just. I know. I know. I know. I know. All right, so the Bradleys are in Curacao. They say that they as they get off, they go to there's like A at the port there, I guess there's a taxi rank.

1:18:21 There's lots of things going on, lots of people. And a taxi driver says to them that was this that day. No, this was a different day. Yeah, I'm getting. Myself mixed up like a month later. Oh. You're right. Sorry, I am absolutely getting myself really mixed up. Yeah. They, yeah, they just, they search the island at this point and then they come back with nothing. They come back to the ship going, we can't find her there either. Like no one's. Yeah, yeah. So no one, no one on that day says they see they saw her.

1:18:48 No, not one person, sorry on that day. On that day, yeah. But then the family have a really tough choice to make. Do they get back on the ship in Curacao and go on to the next ports? Worse and Martin and. Just be sickening. Or do they stay in Curacao and they actually decide to stay in Curacao? Yeah. And I get that. With the information that they had, I think I would have made the same decision. Yep. Yep. And what they do? So the the president of the insurance company company and his wife also disembark and stay with them.

1:19:22 They find a hotel room. This bit is like a funny turn of the story. But Ivar being a very devoutly Catholic woman, she wanted a priest to visit her and at the hotel and they couldn't find a Catholic priest. Guess what they found instead? Oh, what Scientologist? Close. Close what they apparently they. Apparently there was a. Scientology ship close by and they got 2 Tom Cruise. Came over and. I don't know what you call the Scientology. I don't know what they're called. Grand Pooh bar came off, came off the ship and came and and apparently, according to Brad, they were it was weird.

1:20:09 They were really weird. I mean, I suspect nothing else. Apparently at the point that Ron got got to when he was like, all right, you guys can go now. They were getting them to lie face down on the floor and were like cleansing them of. The trauma or something. And then Ron was like, look, I think, I think we've got enough. I think like we're traumatized enough as it is. If you could just please please. Leave could. You just please fuck off. That'd be great. And so I just thought that was a really funny, like little, you know, they're like, Oh, no, no, no Catholic priests, but, you know, Scientology, a couple of Scientologists will do.

1:20:47 Like surely there was someone more than. I don't know. Look, that's just what ended up happening. Maybe it was who they asked. I I really don't know. Can't find a Catholic Prince? Don't worry, we'll find a cult leader for you. Yeah. Can you imagine, though, what it must have felt like for them? You know, they say they, they didn't sleep, they were eating. They they're like, are we going to find a body? No, I'd. Just be, you know, You just can't even imagine. And apparently, IVA absolutely was. Oh yeah, apparently she was just no, but literally like she she couldn't cope.

1:21:22 She wasn't coping. No, what they end up doing so while local authorities had been had been notified, they the fact. So I think this is Ron's Ron and Iva's boss. He tries to contact the US embassy. Yeah. And it was closed. Yeah, I think. It's too late at night by the time they got to the hotel. Yeah, so IVA and and Ron got in touch with a relative back home and they were the ones who are able to connect with the FBI then and get them alerted and onto this. But they still couldn't even get to the island for 24 hours.

1:21:54 Yeah, So they had a field office in Saint Thomas. Yeah, but it by the time that because you had to organise a private jet apply, sorry, a private flight between islands because most people don't, there's not regular commercial flights between islands. So but they also had to the FBI had to have clearance to be involved anyway. So yeah, the 24 hours was, yeah, organising transport to get there and get someone there, but it was also waiting for the local government at the time to allow them to even be involved.

1:22:23 Yeah. So I mean, because it's, I mean, oh God, the whole idea of jurisdiction, jurisdictions of what cruise ships come under is just a whole ramet of bloody legal. Well, I actually learned a lot about it. Because so you don't. Ever want to go on a cruise ship for this reason? Same so. When you're docked and within 3 miles of land, you fall under that country's jurisdiction. There's 12 nautical miles of the of land. You're in that country's jurisdiction. Yeah, I think it's as close, like as far as that even.

1:22:53 But yeah, once you're at an open sea. You are actually under. Well, maritime law and also the. The flag of the ship that you're on. But the where that ship is registered. Yes, not yet exactly. So the fact of the matter is like all these like Royal Cabaret Caribbean, their their head office is in Florida, but that's not where the the ship is registered. No, way too expensive. And then of too many legal things, they have to too many. They have to pay people real money, you know, to work on the ship.

1:23:24 Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, their their ship actually came under Norway, so they had it registered in Norway. So like others that are like, you know, under Liberia and all these sorts of things. So depending on wherever they would register the the boat to where they could get the best, I guess you know, deal, deal in terms of all that stuff that they would register the boat for that That's where the the legal aspects of what law you come under. Yeah is under that country that you're Yep, the boat's registered to totally yeah.

1:23:51 I mean, and no one people don't understand all this stuff. I don't think before cruising that like no, I mean, you don't think you have to, I guess, but you should be more aware of those things because you're not like as an Australian walking onto necessarily a cruise ship going, you know, like it's OK the. Australian The American will take Australians citizen or an American citizen. Yeah, I'm fine, because no, that's not the law you're in. Not. Necessarily anyway, no. So yeah, the FBI do get permission to board the ship.

1:24:19 And So what they do is they've obviously, they come to Curacao, they interview Ron and IVA and Bradley all together first, then they separate them, interview them separately. They're doing that first. Separate them first. You would have thought so, but then I. Guess so many times passed. Anyway of separating them now what's the difference? Probably, yeah. And also, like, you know, IVA was so distressed and I guess they wanted to get a a rough idea of what was going on before they then I guess drilled down.

1:24:46 Yeah. They then decide to go and meet the ship at Saint Martin, I believe. And they actually arrive before the ship gets there, Yes. And so they've got a bit of time there to sort of figure out their game plan, I think, and try and figure out, especially the FBI, like, what's their tact, Where are they going with this? What are they going to try and do? I can't even imagine how it would have felt for the family to have left Curacao where they thought at this point Amy must have been because she wasn't on the ship.

1:25:17 They get back. So anyway, they end up boarding the ship in Saint Martin. You're hoping that that ship arrived and the gang came down and then like Amy was standing there, wouldn't you? Like oh fuck God, Oh my God, yes. But no but. No, that didn't happen. The FBI board the ship and they start to figure out exactly what's going on, get establish a little bit of a timeline as much as possible and. And start find a whole heap of stuff that wasn't done properly. That's for damn sure. Though. Yeah, I mean the well, I think their room had been cleaned, Yes, but.

1:25:50 They hadn't been on the ship for two or three nights at this time. Yeah, I moved to, Yeah, yeah. So the room had actually just been cleaned, which, yeah, the cleaner had come in. But not only that, like many other rooms that potentially had been cleaned, those sorts of areas. Common space the. Common areas, all those things. And it could have been a potential crime scene or a potential area of interest. Yeah, gone. But also that the the that the search that the crew had done, that they promised the family, they had done the full search.

1:26:20 The FBI very quickly found out that that had not been done correctly. And that only the common areas, the bathrooms, the rooms and bathrooms had been. Yeah. No, no, not even room. No, no, her room, I think they looked yeah like obviously, but yeah, they hadn't looked in other. Rooms just seems like public. Public areas, public bathrooms, yeah, like, yeah, all the common areas, basically the ship. Had been checked, come the fuck on. Oh my God, like if someone has which awful but hidden a body, say, you know, sort of stuff they put in the common area.

1:26:49 So. You know, the photographer, Chris, what's his name? Chris something or other. He says Lawson's whatever. He says that he was in his stateroom for basically that entire time, right. And he said he had all of, he had 20, no, over 30 boxes, cases of film equipment big enough to put a body in. Yeah. No one ever, ever checked them. No, that's crazy. So I think you know, that says it all, doesn't it? Yeah. He was in his room. He knows that it never got checked. Let alone like, let alone do carts and things like that.

1:27:23 And that's it. Those sorts of places, like where things could have been hitted very easily, Yeah. That's it. So fucking honestly, like, I think don't do some, don't say you've done something you haven't done, because then people act on that thinking that things are one way and they're not. Yeah. And and her family made decisions based off that. Exactly. Yeah, with the information they got, as I say, they made the right decision. Like, you know, agreed. But I would have done. Exactly. If I, if the if the information was if I'd known that that ship hadn't been searched entirely, a different decision might have been made, you know, so sure, yeah, God awful.

1:27:59 But yeah, I mean, the FBI, they couldn't do much then because on the ship basically because the room itself as it had been cleaned. So they, yeah, they, they did do their own search and more, you know, a lot more thorough. They did find a few interesting things, I guess, but nothing of, you know, major note they found that, you know, we see her shoes where, where they, you know, were there. That's where they would be, had been left. And they found that, well, there were some marks on the railing that would suggest somebody had sat there on the railing, but that's really about all they found in the.

1:28:34 Kind of hard, hard to say, but yeah, marks on the railing. I mean, yeah, Yep. So one of the theories, and I think this is the theory, the family 100%. Yeah, they seem to be very much on. This much on this on this path is that, you know, there's there's known human and sex trafficking networks in Curacao and Aruba, particularly in the 90s. I was going to say especially in the 90s, yeah. So this was something that was known. But you know, again, interesting cruise ships, you think you know now knowing what we know now in terms of the lawlessness of them, you know, the security on the ship are basically.

1:29:13 They're law on judge. Purina Executioner. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, So, you know, people are quite vulnerable when they're on a cruise ship, aren't they? Really? Yeah. And if you think like Amy was drunk, was there anything else in her system? We don't know because how many drinks had she actually had? I mean, if even in this like trafficking theory, I guess there's two separate theories of this as well in that whether voluntarily she's exited the shipped the ship and been abducted in some way after leaving the ship, that being coerced herself like to do that or has she been it's like attacking some way and taken off the shift?

1:29:49 So ship. So there's two different sort of things to look at in terms like, did she want to exit the ship? And then like, I don't know, for example, let's say someone on the ship said, yeah, yeah, I know someone, you know, in Kurosawa who can get you some good weed, right? Yeah. Oh, sweet, I'll meet you and we'll go and get it. Yeah. And then when she's gone and done that off the ship early hours of that morning, something bad's happened beyond there. Yeah. Or is there the idea that someone on the ship targeted her and was like, this is the one we want, we're going to take her and sparked her drink, you know, lured her somewhere and incapacitate her in some way and physically removed her from the boat, the ship in some other way?

1:30:30 Yeah, that's. But yeah. So there's two sort of theories of how that it could occur. But then the idea of like the trafficking, the sex trafficking in the area, it is knowing that that occurs there. But there's a few things that I have an issue with. Go on. So she had some very distinct markings in that she shared these, these tattoos, right? So she had literally every tattoo that anyone in there the like 90s had. Except for the Looney Tunes. Oh no, yeah, that was. Definitely. Yeah, I know Looney Tunes is massive too.

1:31:02 90s. Especially, Oh yeah, around that time would have been like that would have been like space. Jamming. Yeah, actually, that's true, Yeah. She had like, a Tasmanian devil spinning in basketball, which names basketball player herself. That was, I think, on her shoulders. Yeah, she had a son on her lower back, which, I mean, you know, we all used to call the stamp Tran. I used to always tell my friends who got those done, like in one day that sun's gonna set and the sun's gonna start out of your ass.

1:31:26 Careful where you put it. Very much so. You want that sunrise and you. Have to have a full body lifter so your tattoo looks all right. Show the Chinese symbol. Who knows what it said? So. That was on her right ankle and and a gecko on her like naval area. Around her belly button. But she also had naval piercings. Yeah, she didn't. We all. With a blue like. Oh, a toe pants. Toe blue toe pals again. So 90, so 90. So nice. Oh God I have the fucking same one. Of course you did. Oh, she did. Oh. God, so, yeah, there were these were specific things that I I do really query like the trafficking thing with the fact that one, these tattoos that she was easily, you know, she had green eyes also, you know, very, very distinct.

1:32:20 Yeah. That, you know, to me, if you're in that sort of thinking of like that you're doing sex trafficking, are you going to take someone who's very tight knit family, which was seen on the ship, you know, has very distinct markings that can be identified easily, you know, or are you going to take someone who's a bit of a loner? Are you going to, you know, pick someone out who's kind of not? But maybe they needed a young, beautiful, you know, they're not going to take the 70 year. Old. No, I know that, but that's what I mean.

1:32:51 Like I was simply placed to be fighting somebody. Well, maybe it was opportunistic. Yeah. Yeah, you know, she was because, yeah, I mean, was it? I don't know. Yeah, but maybe it was a crime of opportunity. You know, they see her. They get to a point where they can get her out on her own and. It's very risky, like because she's very risky family who are actually gonna miss her less. Risky than it would be today though, because you think like they're not gonna be covering CCTV. There's ways of getting her off the ship.

1:33:22 We're not scanning things. On and off, but people are definitely gonna be like, hey, where's Amy gone? Yeah, whereas someone else could. Maybe not, but they could disappear with that and not have, you know, so many people looking for her, yes, you know, sort of stuff. So yeah, but not only that people looking for her, that she's easily identified. Identified. Yeah, too that I just, I find all a little bit like, yeah. Would that be the person they pick? Yeah, yeah, just. Throwing it out there, yeah.

1:33:52 Yeah. The thing, I guess the things that support that are the fact that there's been sightings. Yes. Well, let's talk about that. Well, there there've been quite a few. Yeah. Alleged sightings because none of them have been proven no so the first one was this is where I got my taxi driver thing of messed up because this happened on the this happened the day after a disappearance or was it the month after when Brad and. A month later, they kept they they went back to Kurosawa. And Brad. Only Brad and Ron were wrong.

1:34:24 Yeah, they went back a month later because they were hearing, I guess, reports of things that were. Stuffed like a press conference while they were down there because they wanted to spread the word. Spread the word and spread because they were getting a lot of media attention in the US. Yeah, Not so much in the Caribbean. Yeah. And they really need it. They needed it. Exactly. So that's what made them travel back. Yeah. So they went to Carousel and so a month later and as they were arriving, it's not wasn't long after their arrival that a cab driver came up to them and spoke to them and said that he saw Amy that day, the day of her disappearance.

1:34:58 I believe that basically. Oh no, no. The day after after appearance on the 24th of March, he said he saw her. OK. Oh yeah, that's the day that she went missing. That's the. Tuesday. Oh, that is OK. Yeah, sorry. So on the date, yeah, on the date she went missing, he apparently, supposedly she had come up to his cab looking for a phone to make a phone call and something else, maybe cigarettes or something. Yeah, she was looking for cigarettes because when she, because that was sort of kind of like, well, yeah, that'll be Amy.

1:35:23 She'd asked for cigarettes. And they were mobre lot. Yes.

1:35:28 So she, he had he, yeah. And he recognised, didn't recognise her at that point as in that didn't know she was missing. Yeah. But it was later on that he realised that all these photos that we're seeing up of this girl who's missing, that's that I'm seeing on the news or whatever, that's that girl. He's for him. The biggest distinctive factor that made him think it was Amy was her. This woman had green eyes and she had an American accent. Yes. And like a Southern accent. And. Yeah. And so that's what made him think it was her.

1:35:58 I don't think he he said anything about her tattoos. I'm pretty sure the cab driver didn't. No, I don't. Remember him saying anything about the tattoos? But what he said is she went off in the other direction. So yes, he said, go to the phone that way. Yeah. And she went the other way. So what was that all about? Yeah. But I mean, as we said on the day when they got off the bat, that ship, it was incredibly busy, yes. So there are a lot of people around, a lot of American accents around too. So are these sightings.

1:36:25 A lot of people have, I mean, not a lot of people, but more than one person on a boat of 2000 passengers probably had green eyes. Yeah, that too. But also, after a month, those eyes could look green. I don't know. Do you know what? I mean like our memories are I. Wouldn't I? Don't necessarily. I actually, I don't look at people and go, oh, what colour are your eyes? Yeah, actually the first thing I look. At well, that's what he said though, 'cause it was. That's why he reckons he remembers it, because it was so striking.

1:36:49 Right. The eyes were so striking. OK, I don't know. Yeah, the next alleged sighting was by these Canadian surfers in this was in August of 1998, so a few months after her disappearance. Scuba divers they. Were yeah, they were in Curacao on a diving trip and they so one of them was washing off their equipment after having been on a dive. Now they were in a really sort of secluded part of Curacao where it was called like Port Marie or something like that. Yeah, where not many tourists went to, but it was a really good diving spot.

1:37:24 Yeah. And apparently all that was there was 1 little shop and that was it. So they've been scuba diving. They were coming in, one of the men was washing his, washing their equipment in the shallows of the water. And he's called out to his friend and what what? There were three people kind of walking past him at the time, two men on the outside and a woman in the middle. And as soon as the woman heard that he was speaking English and had an American, you know, Canadian but American ish accent, she turned around and looked at him.

1:37:57 And he like it. It struck him as being odd, the way she kind of looked at him. It was enough for him to sort of take notes. Yeah, he said that she looked scared. Scared. Yeah. So the also the way he describes one of the men in particular, it could have been, I guess at this point, Yellow was a suspect being interviewed by the FBI on the ship. The way he describes one of the men, it was basically a description very similar to that of yellow. And he also described her tattoos. This man, yes. So he described the Tasmanian devil with the spinning basketball, the Chinese symbol on her right ankle, the gecko.

1:38:43 No. Not the gecko, no. It was just the I think. It was just the Tasmanian devil, actually. He I think he saw her ankle as well, and he also noted her green eyes. Yes. So this occurred in so June was in 1998 in 98, Yep. He didn't report it until he saw it being it was on a program that he saw in the December of the same year in 98. So I mean, yeah, spaces between six months later basically before he reported it, so. But he says I know it was her. Yes, so there had been photos of her released, pair of tattoos had been released and also her eye colour obviously like so those things had been out in the media.

1:39:36 And it was on the FBI website. It was everywhere for anyone. Anyone could access that information, Yes. So Yep. He also says that he and his mate, so the three people went up to the bar or the restaurant, whatever, the only thing that was on that strip of beach and ordered a drink. And he and his mate went up and had a drink as well, but they left before the other three people did. And he kind of really didn't think that much more of it until he saw. Yeah, he sort of in a sense like the other these two men that were with her really prevented her from coming and speaking to them.

1:40:11 Like there was a real he felt. He felt there was some something weird. A sense of something. Yeah. Yeah. He got a definitely good sense. Yeah. Naval Petty Officer William Hefner. What a name. First of all, for this bloke. Yes, he, so his alleged sighting was in January of 1999, so, you know, the following year. Yeah, almost a year after she went missing. He was in a. So he was actually on leave for the day in was he was his. No, he was in Barbados. This was in Barbados. He was on leave for the day as a Navy SEAL, a Navy, Navy officer.

1:40:52 He was a Navy Petty Officer, Yeah. And he was coming up for retirement. Yeah, he was two or three years off retirement. Oh, less than that, I think. Oh, was it OK? And he decides to take himself off to a brothel for the day. Is completely against. The rules and. Not only that, is it against rules to do that, but if you are out and about, whether you'll be your day of leave or not, as a member of the Navy, you go in pairs as a minimum anywhere you go. He didn't, no. He was on his own. Yeah, he gets to this.

1:41:24 He calls this is what? Fuck it gets me. He calls it a bar. Yeah. I'm like, it's not a bar, dude. It's a fucking brothel with a bar. I. Just wanted to go in for a beer. He's just going for a beer and he's. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, that's right. Sorry. He was. And I just work at the front desk, All right? Yeah. So he's gone in for a beer and there were three girls, Is that what he said or two 2 girls? No, sorry. There were two girls and a man. Yeah, yes. And they were all having a chat and at some point, the man and the other girl that was there, they sort of walked away and were out of earshot.

1:41:58 And Amy, this is what he claims Amy says to him. My name is Amy from Virginia. With that, the man comes back and Amy has to stop in her tracks and sort of keep talking about whatever they were talking about before to try and pretend like she hadn't just disclosed who she was. He leaves that brothel and she, she actually says to him, I'm being held here against my will, sorry, as well. Yeah, he leaves that brothel now regardless, regardless of whether that woman was Amy. Yeah. How the fuck, as a Navy officer can you be so callous as to leave a woman who's disclosed something like that to you and walk away?

1:42:44 He would've lost his retirement. What a fucking piece of shit. Yeah, I can't with that man. Yeah, it was more he was worried about himself. Worried about himself, worried about losing his, you know, losing his benefits after he retired. So when he retired in May 2002, so it was three years later, yeah, he reported this to the FBI. What a hero. Yep. The FBI did investigate it when they went down to Barbados to sort of try and figure out they they found out that the brothel had actually burnt down a couple of years before.

1:43:24 Yeah, yeah. So there was nothing for them to investigate, there was nowhere really for them to go after that. This is it, yeah. There's another sighting in San Francisco. Yeah, Yep. In April 2003. I find this one interesting. Yeah, that. Yeah, Yep. The witness, This woman says that there were three people watching, a street musician, and she recognized one of those people as being Amy.

1:43:55 When the two men who were with whoever this aim, whether it was Amy or not, when they were with this girl, when they noticed that this woman kind of clocked eyes on them and they could see that she'd figured out something, Yeah, they literally fled with the woman who this witness thought was Amy. Apparently the woman cast a really pleading look to this woman. And anyway, she she tried very hard to chase them down and she contacted the FBI and told them exactly what had happened. Yeah. She even provided a sketch of the two, well, of Amy, although it's not great, but of the two men that were with Amy as well.

1:44:39 So she she did her best to try. And they're the two that are that there's a sketch of on the FBI website, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. One's like a red headed body guy with yeah cool. That's cool. So another sighting of Amy, which was prior to her to her well during her missing but very early moments was back on the ship, which is an interesting one because I think there's a lot of credibility to it. I. Fully agree. Yeah, so they were actually, I think it was three women. They two days after the her disappearance, they finally got to the Bradleys like, Oh my God, we've been trying to catch you when we we couldn't find you.

1:45:17 And they and they divulged this information. So the Bradleys were started basically saying we think that's when they were obviously off on curious out and they couldn't find them on the ship. So they weren't they didn't give this information, unfortunately, but for two days. But what they found was what they saw was that they remembered that in the early hours of that Tuesday morning at about 6:00 AM, they had seen Amy with yellow at the nightclub. So back at the nightclub at about 6:00 AM, which fits with the timeline of her not being in the room when when Ron's were rewoken pretty much the same time and what?

1:45:53 And so they just happened to see they were coming down the elevator or something they could see in through to or no? They so Yellow and Amy were in a glass, an open glass elevator, so like a completely glass elevator and they saw them going up and there's only one thing on that level and that is the Viking Lounge. Yes, so. They saw them go in, go into the nice, saw some saw someone pour a dark drink. So that was another lady. That was someone else. So there's another lady who was in the Viking. In the Viking rush because.

1:46:23 Yeah. So this corroborates each other's story of this was this occurred. This happened at 6:00 AM Yeah. So yeah, she. She did exit that room and was alive. Yeah. At 6:00 AM That's right. That. Yeah. So she was seen there at 6:00 AM with him and a dark drink which could have been a coffee, could have been a Coca-Cola, could have been anything, anything but a dark drink she was given, you know, in a glass. So that's. Yeah, that's that bit of evidence I think is. Pretty critical what those three girls then also say is that yellow then exited and came down the elevator to the level that they were on again walked straight past them.

1:46:59 Now the night, the nights previously, he'd talked to these three girls, He had danced with them. He walked past them that morning like. He'd never seen. Them never seen them before and they thought that was really weird because he'd come on to them, he'd wanted to party with them and they weren't all that interested. Yeah, right. So they thought that was really weird. And then they it also made them go, oh, where's Amy? We just saw you with Amy. Yeah, you're with Amy there. And the other thing which is interesting of that which you said earlier that Yellow had been interviewed by the FBI.

1:47:32 He he had been. And he said to them that the last time he saw Amy was at 1:00 AM on the night prior. Yeah. Well, so at night, so Tuesday early, very early, I was Tuesday morning, 1:00 AM Yeah. So but now there's people saying we saw you with Amy at 6:00 AM. So that's interesting because he did technically and what's in it, but he did do a polygraph. He voluntarily did a polygraph. And he supposedly like, well, it was I've read inconclusive and I've read past it. So I mean, who knows really. It's a polygraph.

1:48:04 It's. Not. Admissible. Not admissible anyway. I mean, what were the questions that were asked if they didn't know about this 6:00 AM, you know, sighting at that time, There's no reason they question him on it. So therefore, him saying I saw her 1:00 AM isn't wrong. But it's not, you know, so who knows? But that is what did occur. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this one's, this one's the tough bit for me, like. To. Get my head around all of that. Yeah. Yeah. So then the other like supposed like alleged sighting was on an adult website in 2005, a woman named Jazz with the same tattoo, same build.

1:48:47 Forensic comparisons by the FBI. Yeah. Say that it is a possible match. I've seen it reported that it was definitely her. I've reported, I've seen it reported that definitely was not. Exactly. So I think that one we almost have to take with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, and I the one that I read that I felt was the probably the most credible, credible, yeah, was basically saying that photos of that era, it is particularly difficult to tell when they've been altered. Yes, I did read that. Yeah.

1:49:22 And I found that interesting information 'cause I thought I 'cause even when I first saw it, I was like, well, we didn't really have like, you know, like an Adobe Photoshop at the time, You know what I mean? Like yeah, so forcing an image at that point would be very different to how you would falsify an image these days. Definitely. And I wonder what their techniques would be as to how to go about it, but also how to prove whether it was or wasn't real. Yeah. So I mean, if and when. So there's people who have done more layman, who have done the comparison of like they've used the image that they've released of Amy, which was taken on the ship with Brad Bradley, and where she's facing One Direction and they flip her face the other direction because that's the way the face is facing in the jazz picture.

1:50:04 Yeah. Now no one's face is symmetrical. No. And so when you do that, it matches almost perfectly. Yeah. Which to me then actually says it's not her. Yeah, because it wouldn't match perfectly. Yeah. If it was genuinely her face. Yeah, and also, like, you know, you if you flip a photo, you can always tell people look weird the other way, like, you know, So yeah, I see what you're saying. Yes. Yeah. So there's I think there's a fair bit of credibility to say that that image has been altered and isn't real, which I'm I devastate because when that first got brought forward, I know on the documentary I was like, Oh my God, yes, she's alive.

1:50:45 Oh my God, this is amazing. Like, you know, that would be, that would bring the family so much hope. Yeah. Oh, I think it did. Oh yeah. Oh, I think it brought. Them, which is so much I'm so sad for them that I don't believe it's real yeah and not to say that doesn't mean she's alive or not I I that doesn't not it's not conclusive on that just that particular. Bit of evidence that. Just don't think that actually is what you think it is, yeah. Yeah. The next theory is do we do the suicide theory next?

1:51:10 OK. Yep, Yep. So I guess the this is I, this is a a commonly held belief by a lot of people because when the FBI went to do the initial search of their cabin, of the Bradley's cabin, they found that the little table, the little sort of coffee table side table on the balcony was pushed up against the railing or up against the. Yeah, against the railing. Yeah. And so, and then you also mentioned earlier about the markings on the balustrade. Yeah. And and so I guess, you know, it's absolutely worth thinking about the fact that maybe Amy jumped.

1:51:55 Yeah. Now there's several issues with this theory. Yeah. The first issue is that I mean, I guess it depends on what evidence you believe, because a lot of things haven't been re corroborated by the FBI either. So I'm talking about that sighting of her in the elevator. That hasn't been I, I think there's a lot of weight that should be placed on that because of those girls, the women. But it hasn't been said by the FBI that, yes, that was a confirmed sighting of Amy. So if we're thinking that at 5:30, Ron wakes up, sees Amy's legs there, he goes back to sleep.

1:52:36 The theory is that he's startled to wake at 6:00 AM by the sound of Amy falling or having jumped over the side of the boat. Yeah. And that sort of wakes him up to then be like, oh, where is she? Where is she? Yeah. This is further this theory I guess is further supported by people, but like because people like well her shoes were still left outside. Let's just say that she did also bring nine other pairs of shoes on that. Oh yeah. Probably worth worth mentioning, but she wasn't wearing shoes. I don't.

1:53:11 Oh actually did they? Did they say whether other shoes had been taken from the room? This I couldn't find any because I wanted to know what she was wearing. I know and everything as well. She. Was wearing, she was definitely wearing denim shorts and a white shirt because they were able to. They were able to choose that from her. OK, I couldn't read. I couldn't write that. I looked for it and couldn't find that anywhere. But yeah, because I looked for that in terms of the shoes then, but I couldn't.

1:53:32 Find that in relation to these. Either it is your holiday so. That's right. But do you think they'd sink that on a cruise ship? Because most cruise, No, absolutely not. Oh, really? Oh yeah. Oh, I can't close them. You can't go into a common food area without shoes on. That's gross. Oh yeah, what food am I eating off my floor? Oh, I don't know. I don't like it. Like people who have foot fungus and stuff like, Oh no. Shoeless. You'd have to agree to disagree on this one. So. Yeah, that's, that's another thing, like, was she wearing shoes?

1:54:04 Like, you know, if you're going overboard and if you're suicidal, do you have the forethought to be like, I'm going to take my shoes off? And because they were neatly left too, they were. But I, I. Do say she's coming after a night I'd take. Well, personally I'd take my shoes off pretty quickly. Like same. Yeah, so would I. So you would have sat down without your shoes? On yeah, true. But yeah, but then what happened between 5:30 and 6:00 to make her go right? I'm going to jump. Yeah, and I mean, this is where I guess that people come into this with the whole idea of, you know, her confusion over her sexuality potentially and her family and where their opinion on things or, you know, that.

1:54:37 But she had so much else going on in her life that was exciting in terms of her, you know, the house she had bought. She just got a pup. Well, she hadn't actually got the puppy yet. She was picking the puppy up when she got back. You know, she was planning on meeting back up with Molly. Yeah. Yeah. She'd named the puppy. She was meeting back up with Molly, this girl that she'd been dating and was like, you know, wanted to make things right with. But again, as I mentioned, the wording in the letter that she wrote her, you know, she wrote words like save me, you know, you know, I, I find the language in that letter of interest that someone who is feeling, I don't know, like they wanna get back together with someone.

1:55:16 That was just very strong language of someone who's very needing like that person and very unsure of themselves. I. Think. So too, as much as and so saying that she came across potentially to everyone how I'm happy I'm the life of the party, but that's not. I mean, you don't know, you don't know and often people who commit suicide. Yes, are people who are presenting in that way. Especially in the very immediate lead up to their suicide because they're happy they've made the decision they're gonna do it.

1:55:47 They know whatever trauma or whatever has pushed them to lead to that, yeah is coming to an end. And they often have a euphoric leading to that. Yeah, many, many comedians are depressed. You know, look at Robin Williams. Robin Williams is a key example of that, you know, like, so it's, yeah, really interesting people who do the whole like, oh, but she was so happy. And so that's rule it out because she was alive for the party, I think. I don't rule that out so. Much to be said about her sexuality.

1:56:16 I really feel like that's so downplayed in the Netflix. Yeah, it is. They sort of, they want to make something of it without, I don't know, like, but in a really unusual way. Yeah. And the fact they left out this information at the boyfriend. What? What did that just make it too complicated or I just. Think. I think Ron and IVA and even Brad to be honest, never accepted the fact that she was. I don't think so either. And so when that is who you are and you're in a close family and you feel like you're not, then being accepted for who you are by your close family who are ride or die have you back, Yeah, that is an existential.

1:56:53 Crisis. Yeah, that's interesting. And I wonder that's then it comes to that question of like, is that why they were so desperate to have this holiday with the four of them, like with a family feeling her pulling away, going you're not on the same page as me and I don't like this and, you know, really pushing back on them, separating yourself from them that way, in that way. And so they were like, oh, we need to bring her back in like, you know, and this holiday was somehow, I don't know, a way to do that.

1:57:22 But I also then wonder whether the Netflix documentary, not including this Tom, who was the boyfriend, was that a a conscious decision on the fact of who they had spoken to as to who the true Amy was. And they made a call that you know what? Yeah, she was dating Tom, but everyone knows it wasn't. She wasn't really with him and wanting to be with him. So we're just going to leave him out of it because to to what were they saying? You know, respectfully, Amy, we know who you were. I don't, I don't know.

1:57:51 I mean, I don't know. I've heard Tom speak and and their relationship interesting, but I've also heard that Ivor was very much like you should date Tom. Take Tom, he's so lovely. You should date Tom. So I think that's so true. And I think there was a lot of pressure on Amy as well with the male attention she was getting on the ship, and her parents were delighted in that. So the fact that these waiters were wanting her and stuff. Making a lot of comments around. Her deal about? It and I wonder whether want her you.

1:58:19 Know looks how popular? Why? I wonder whether it was as as as they make it. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just wonder if it was as intense as they made it out to be. Or was it that they were wanting it so badly that they were like making it more than it was, I think. The same. Thing I think it was young people who worked on the ship were like yeah, come have a party with us. Like, you know, come and join in and being yeah and look, I'm not saying Yellow didn't touch her and all these sorts of things and made passes.

1:58:46 Sure it happened, but I don't know if there was this conspiracy thing of, you know, like everyone was. Just wanted Amy. Yeah, these men want today. Yeah, I feel like pushing that too much. I mean, yeah, I know It then aligns with this whole idea of her being sex trafficked, yes as well, yes. But I just wonder whether this is there's a whole thing there that's maybe not there. Yeah, I wonder exactly the same thing. Yeah. So in going along with the suicide theory as well, is the fact that they were very well, the theory I guess is that Amy and Brad were very controlled by their parents.

1:59:25 So I'm talking about the fact that Amy her apartment was purchased by her parents and so she was beholden to them around that and the fact that they a lot of the things she did was to please her parents because she wanted to. But how much of that is, you know, a level of control, especially over a 23 year old and a, you know, 21 year old? And then like I know now to this black in to this exact very day, Brad lives a 62nd walk from his mom and dad. Now, there's two ways to think about that. Is he living a minute from his mom and dad, because they have been through this tragedy and have lost a child, and that's horrific, and he just wants to be close to them?

2:00:17 Or is that another way for this control to exist in this family unit? Yeah, I can see validity in both. I think a 60 minute 62nd walk, kind of a 60 minute walk sort of thing is like a 62nd walk, yeah. He's 200 yards away. Too close, no matter what, he. Bought and built his place that. Close. I mean, I don't know what the real estate market market's like where they're from, but I think you could live 1015 minutes away. Yeah, and it'd still be. OK, still be OK. Yeah. Like that seems awfully close.

2:00:48 Very. I mean, I love my parents. But yeah, yeah, yeah, space is good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I'm just, you know, this is adds more to the controlling nature of it. You know, they wanted their kids to be sporty, so they pushed them into all of the sports. And I'm not saying the kids didn't want to do it. I'm not. I don't know. I think clearly Amy was definitely into it. Absolutely. You know, excelled at. It and then she wanted to go on and study that. Yeah. But then also she's then working for her uncle's computer company, which has nothing to do with her degree.

2:01:20 Is that a level of control as well, to keep her within the family and keep her not going out there? We're embarrassed about what might have come of that, given her sexual orientation. I I don't know. I don't know. It's just theory. Theory banding, you know. Yeah, I, I don't know. So interesting. I mean, the one thing that does sort of, well, not one, there's a couple of things that kind of goes squash on the suicide on the ship scenario. How sort of that occurring at like 6:00 AM-ish is that one, she was seen in the ship at 6:00 AM by other people, which is you say not I think corroborated personally.

2:01:56 I know the FBI aren't sort of saying that, but I feel that that is corroborated enough to warrant that she was seen on the ship. But also there is from the room where the the balustrade was. Yeah, it was quite high. So we should, yeah, to get up on it. But there was a shelf to stop people from being able to fall off of the ship. So if she was going to do it, she would have to have jumped out a fairway. But not only that, again, we were saying how far away from the shore she was, The fall wouldn't have killed her.

2:02:27 So where if she was going to do that, you were to die, she would have to do that out in open sea, not where you can see land. Yes and also like you think about her body surely would have washed up with currents and stuff like that. Well, we can come back to that. We. Will come back to that. But yeah, the the other theory of it was that people said like she jumped off and then swam. Now I don't think that that that is where I kind of go potentially if is that if she did, I don't think she did. But if she did, that's a let's say 4.8 kilometers now a damn good swimmer.

2:03:05 4.8 K in a pool is 1 is a hell of A. Long. That's a hell of a long way in the ocean you're talking. There's rips and currents. You're swimming far more than 4.8 K. You've got to think of what she didn't like being in the ocean. Also the dangers of swimming around a massive cruise ship with massive rudders and. Other boats, I mean, I know they said as they were coming through that spot too, there were other tug boats that pull the boat around and, you know, manipulate and move the boat as well because like they rudders can't even make the boat turn that much.

2:03:35 They have other boats in the water. So someone would have spotted her if not, you know, potentially collected her in terms of a rudder or something, you know, like, So I don't, I don't think that those things occurred. I don't think that she, I don't think she put herself in the water, put it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And use my words carefully. And yeah, another theory is that she fell so that she was drunk or seasick because, yeah, they were. The ship was moving at the time. Yeah, she, according to Brad, she had felt sick after they left a rubble.

2:04:15 Yeah. And like had felt seasick when the boat started moving again. Because they weren't, it wasn't in high, like high rough seas, and they were in fairly calm water. So, yeah, yeah, that's not to say people don't get seasick in those sorts of waters. I do get it that people do. So she quite possibly did because they were moving and so they were in rough sea. Yeah, So what they, the theory is, is that she sort of leant over the balcony to vomit and fell in. But see, that's where like they actually build the balustrades, so that can't happen.

2:04:39 So they are like, she was 5 foot 6, I think. Yeah. And the railing came up to about four foot 10 or so. Basically her arm so can you like in order to you're unwell, but then she might have stood on the chair to get enough reach to vomit over the side, who knows. Yeah. But even then there's the shelf. So I mean, you have to jump out and so you'd have to put yourself out there. You'd have. To projectile vomit projectile. Vomit and then. Projectile leap, yeah. To get our way from the shelf, because if you fell over the edge, you're falling on the shelf that would have collected you so that you didn't fall off the ship.

2:05:13 So they've actually, yeah, they've put things in place for that reason. So yeah, that one doesn't really fly either in that scenario. And that someone saw her at 6:00 AM. Exactly. Yeah, Yeah. So we then come back to, I guess the the idea that she voluntarily disappeared herself. And that could include exiting the ship, you know, via whatever way she wanted to exit the ship, not necessarily jumping over the edge and swimming, not she could have exited the ship voluntarily in other ways. So yet maybe she didn't want to go and start another life.

2:05:47 I don't, you know, as we was talking about the fact that you know what the pressure she was under with various things, if that's what she was doing, I mean, and there are sightings of her, but I don't know, there's sort of no, no baseline of like to sort of suggest that's what she would have done. Yeah. Like to wipe herself with her family entirely. I don't. Think that that would be there was a, a report or a, a story that came out that she was looking for that someone heard her say that she was getting off the boat to buy drugs for her and her brother.

2:06:24 And so in that instance, what they assume happened, if you believe this was the reason is that she got off the boat by via the gangway. She's gone and tried to find and buy drugs for her and Brad. And then somehow, like I think these people then also believe that she was then kidnapped and and sex trafficked basically. I lean towards part of that. OK, Go. Are we gonna, are we gonna get into this? I think let's just really quickly talk about what the family have done since and then we can get into our theory.

2:07:00 Yeah, cool. So the family have been they literally haven't stopped looking for any and they've hired private investigators. We'll get to this bid in a second. Yes, they've appeared on America's Most Wanted, the Doctor Phil show, Oprah. They did a thing back in the oh, fucking Doctor Phil. Oh, he's such a piece. Of isn't it funny that I think that's when they brought out the jazz photo. Isn't it? Yeah, it is. Maybe someone in the Doctor film show knows where that came from. Yeah. Exactly like fucking.

2:07:28 He's such a fuck wit and I used to allegedly I used to love him. I know I it's saying when I first used to like watch, I just. Can't believe I was so naive. I know I've rewatched one these days and I just go. What? Fuck you. Asshole. Like I remember sometimes having a siki from school so I could watch an episode that I really. Yeah, oh God, if you're sick at home. Oh, Phil. Oprah. Both of them. Oh, they're so problematic now. Oh, no, yeah. Anyway, so we'll talk about this private investor. Yeah, let's go with.

2:08:01 Him a man by the name of Frank Jones in 1999. So the year after, after Amy went missing, he contacted the Bradleys. Well, on the foot of someone else who had contacted them, too. Yeah. So there'd been another witness, another sighting that we hadn't mentioned earlier. Oh, yeah. By Judith Margaret. Margaret Margaret or something. Yeah. So she claimed that she was living on Curacao and that she knew that Amy was being held against her will by heavily armed Colombian guards in a housing complex, some sort of compound, and that she was heavily protected by barbed wire and all these things.

2:08:44 And that she had seen Amy regularly shopping at the grocery store and things like that in the area. So they, yeah, this was a sighting that they and they had brought. This out to the public and. It was like Cura Sal. OK, yeah. So this this has been put out publicly to kind of go, well, this is something we've been told. Has anyone else got any information on this? And that's when Frank Jones contacted them saying that he he knew that that was credible and that he basically thought that he could help them out.

2:09:19 So he claimed to be U.S. Army Special Forces. Mm Hmm. He won the Bradleys over. He told IVA that if he had to put Amy on his back and swim her out of there, he would. Oh, what a hero. Yep. Yep. Initially, he told them they needed seven. He needed $70,000 to get his team together. I. Should just say so. This was not long after they had announced. And this came from Ron's boss as well. Yeah. That he put up $250,000 as a reward for the fact that Amy being found alive and returned to them. There was also another 25,000, I think it was put up by the government.

2:09:58 Yeah. So. Yeah. So there's this water money. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they. So the Bradleys initially were able to raise this $70,000. They sold a car. They used their life savings. They've sent this money to this Frank Jones.

2:10:17 He said he was surveilling this house that Amy was supposedly in and that he'd had multiple sightings of her. He'd seen her multiple times. He had two guys on it and then it came to a point this was going on for months. Yeah, he was having a nice little holiday in Curacao while he was doing this and coordinating this. He. Got to a point where he was actually he had Ron and and Brad Bradley flew in onto another island waiting on standby because he was going to get her out. Actually, they were in Florida.

2:10:52 Sorry to Florida. They were. They were, Yep, close by. So they could literally come in and sweep in and collect Amy. So he was getting them out, so they were on. Call. Yep. And even IVA went, yeah, to Florida. They were there for a week. She did. I think she left. I think she said she left the room twice for minutes because she was waiting for this phone call. So what what led to that point was he said, right, it's time, it's ready to go. I need another $120,000 to execute my plan to to get Amy out of there.

2:11:27 And they said to him at the time, can you give us proof? We need proof that Amy is alive, that you've found her. Because I mean, OK, they've already given him 70 grand, but they're like 120. That's a lot of money. I mean, 70 grand, it's a lot of money. But of course you would do anything if your child was missing totally. So they he sends them a photo of Amy. I'm doing that in inverted commas from behind. Yeah, with a big like broad brim hat on so you could really couldn't see her face. Yep, there was a but the tattoo was on the back of her shoulder.

2:12:01 And so from the from behind, Yep, sitting on a beach, Yep, next to her was a man. With long blonde hair. Yeah, I think so. Don't. Really understand that detail. But anyway, so they're like, Oh my God, that's Amy. Oh my God, Yep, that's her tattoo. Totally, absolutely her. They then get gifted the money from Ron and Ivor's boss, from the president of the insurance company because they didn't have any more money. They already given things. Across No, they were using the National Missing Children's Organization.

2:12:31 Oh. Sorry, you're sorry. You are absolutely right. You are absolutely right and I believe did Brad send up a go? Send up a go. Fund me, I believe eventually, yeah. Yeah. So. OK, so they've been able to get this money together. They've sent it across. They're waiting in this hotel room in Florida for seven days. And another man rings. This man says to them, I've been working with Frank Jones, and I actually can't do this anymore. I'm so sorry, but we don't have Amy. I've been, I've been watching that house and it's a normal family.

2:13:04 Yep. Nothing suspicious about it. Yeah, Amy's not there. And what he also tells them is that photo is actually a photo they created. So they had the tattoo made like a stencil of the tattoo made so that they could like, I don't know. Yeah, a full transfer, mate. Yeah, a transfer made transfer and and put on a random woman. Yep. And yeah, and that's how they made-up that photo to convince them that they had Amy. It's so sad. Awful. So they so fucking ended up giving Frank Jones, like $210,000. Yeah, they did end up charging him.

2:13:43 So in February 2002, he was prosecuted and he was charged with frauding the Bradleys of 240,000, sorry $24,444.00 and the Missing children, National Missing Children's Organization, organization of $186,416.00. He plead guilty and he went to jail for five years. So I don't know if they got that money back or not, but because he drank most of it I think so I'm not sure how much of it actually end up. In Curacao. Yeah, and on their dime. So what an absolute fucking sack of shit. Do that to a family who, I mean, the amount of times you hear of that sort of stuff, like people like who are tragically trying to find someone and someone else takes them for a ride.

2:14:26 It's, I mean, going all the way back to like the Beaumont children, you know, kind of stuff of like that similar sorts of attitudes of people just taking advantage of their grief and situation. Yeah. It's. Fucked. It's so fucked up. It's absolutely so fucked up. Yeah. Now just really quickly as well, do you want to talk a little bit about, I guess just this was just a note that I made when I was listening to something? Yeah, that now, I'm not saying this happened on this cruise ship because I couldn't find any evidence of that.

2:15:03 Yeah. But a lot of cruise ships make their employees sign Ndas, non disclosure agreements so that they are actually not allowed to talk about anything that happened on board and what the Bradleys and the FBI are worried about. Or I guess there's concern that maybe somebody on, in fact, I'm sure somebody on that ship knows something. Yeah. And because of the fact that they'd signed a non disclosure and the threat of that was like significant financial, you know, what am I calling it like significant financial detriment to them.

2:15:42 You know, they would have to pay a massive amount of money if they just, oh, they got their lawyers involved. They locked very quickly. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's prevented information from coming to the fore. I think we find, like, in all of this, there's lots of people sighting, you know, seeing sightings of Amy and all these things that are coming forward. And you hear of lots of like, I guess passengers, you know, on the ship with information as to who they saw Amy mingling with. No crew. The crew I'm and I'm can guarantee you the crew saw more than anyone else.

2:16:13 No crew have come forward going. Yeah, yeah, we are. We, we, you know, we invited Amy to come for drinks, you know, or yeah, we saw Amy doing this and we saw Amy talking. You don't hear of any crew doing that. There was the one guy on the the doco. The What did he? He was like the like the guest relations office, like, I don't know, I don't know. But he was a bit of a character. Yeah, a bit of a character. He's like the only one. And really he didn't give much, to be honest. He didn't give much information.

2:16:40 I found he was a bit of a filler. Yeah. So that's interesting. And I think that that was done very carefully for that reason. So I really, I, I think you're right in terms of the NDA and I wonder what kind of, I mean, it's already been nearly what cut not far off of 30 years ago that there's got to be a statute of limitation. Apparently there is an apparent Apparently it's 25 years depending on the juristic. Yeah, they it it's. So I wonder whether we may hear something come out of people in at some point.

2:17:11 I don't know. It's a it's an interesting one. Yeah. I guess before we get into our theory, yeah, I think just worth noting that Amy's family did end up getting her get declared deceased. So they did that mainly because of the fact that they wanted to sue Royal Caribbean for their lack of their negligence and wrong for the wrongful death basically. And they can't do that unless they've got her declared dead. So so they did do that. And there was an outcome of that very recently that they lost that.

2:17:46 Now they are appealing it. So that's still going to play out a little bit more. But the reason why it was that they lost it I found very interesting. So the judge, just the judge did say a lot of things, particularly that he felt that they perjured themselves, the Bradleys, and that they were really forcing this issue of that. There is only one theory here and that is that she was kidnapped and that therefore the ship should be held accountable. When the judge very much felt from the evidence that was really available that there were many possibilities still that were not shut down like as in that day it was there was not.

2:18:31 That was not the only viable possibility and therefore they didn't have a case which I think that that's. Fair, I agree. Yeah, I, I really think that that's fair at that point, until we can get actual sightings or actual, you know, corroboration of various aspects of things, anything that happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me what you think. OK. I think, and I think it ties into the fact of where she was at mentally a little bit. I think she was looking for some drugs. I don't think she was a drinker.

2:19:08 I think that though somebody suggesting some other something else, something else would have been potentially enticing and I think that's why she was. She was there with yellow at six. AMI think he had said to her, come back and see me later, because I've got to go back to my room now. Come back and see me in the morning and I'll hook you up with someone who can get you there. Whatever that is. I don't know. I'm not. I wouldn't want to say what kind of drug, what, how you know. Is it relevant? Not really.

2:19:33 Not really could be anything. Yep. So I think that was where they were meeting and he was like, yeah, I'll go sort, sort this out. And that's where he's gone off and just left her there having a drink while he does something. Now, what happens after that? I believe either they snuck her off the boat to meet with a dealer or something. And whether she took that drug there and then had a dreadful reaction and died, or whether they did. Then take advantage of her, rape her awful things, whatever killed her, I don't know, But I think that that's where something's gone wrong.

2:20:12 When they put her in something to get her off the ship and she suffocated. I don't know, I think something has gone awry in that scenario of meeting up with someone for. Drugs. And do you think the meeting took place on the ship or off the ship? I think it I feel like off the ship. I think so too. Yeah. So I have a similar, very, very similar theory. Yeah. I think she was looking for something. Yeah. Drugs, a different life. I'm not. I don't think she intended to disappear. No, forever. No, that's what I don't think that was her intention.

2:20:49 No, I think she was just looking for coping. She was. Something I need it. I need something and. Someone was offering something. I think there's a lot to be said about the controlling nature of her family. I think there's there's weight there. Yeah. I think the letter that Ron wrote to her girlfriend, I think that would have weighed very heavily on her. I mean. Well, that happened. I know, I know. Time prior I know I. Think that established, that's right, that established a a baseline of what her family thought and how strongly they thought.

2:21:22 It especially if she was going home to I want to be with Molly, Molly and I'm going to get rid of this situation. Like if that say was something that was really playing on her mind. Yeah, I think I think that was just a lot on her mind. And so someone offering up a Halo. Do you want to get some weed or like something that's, you know, that she was willing to try something that maybe she hadn't ever ever tried before. Maybe she I'm not saying that she was a drug user by doing this by any means. I know because I think she really would be.

2:21:48 And she sounds like a true athlete and all those sorts of things. But I think in the mental state she was in, the fact she didn't really want to be there, you know, like, really like. As a form of escapism. Maybe, Yeah, looking for something, looking for something else. I think that's what she's. Got to waiting for. Yep. And some people have offered some things up and I think it's gone to shit. Yep, and then and then how it's gone to shit is really hard to know. Yeah, I I feel like she probably did not exit the ship through the gangway, no.

2:22:16 I don't think that she, no, I think it's, she's gone through crew, you know, I think that's where. Through the other side and onto a boat or something. I think that's very. Very much more. Likely it literally. Could have been someone meeting them, you know, delivering, as we're saying, like, you know, produce, right, and other kind of produce, you know, And so probably someone coming to the ship, bringing something that it could have been as simple as literally on the dock that they were meeting somebody, not necessarily going off into curate.

2:22:43 So that's where I don't think she was like, oh, I'm going to go all the way into like this bar in there. I'll tell my parents where I'm going. I think she was like, oh, I'm going to be back by 6:15 after this, like kind of stuff. I'm just going to the dock here. I'm not actually exiting the boat kind of stuff. I don't think she saw it that way. I really don't think she had any intention of, yeah, disappearing, but she went to go and get that and things have turned to shit without the fact that she arrived and this yellow bloke's, you know, gone, you know, like, I don't know, my friend here wanted to get some and he's like, why the hell did you bring her?

2:23:15 Like now she knows who I am or I don't know. I don't know. Something's just not gone how it should have. Yeah. And they've had to then get rid of her. Yeah. I don't think she's alive. I don't think she is either. That's awful to say, I. Feel so sad when you see IVA interviewed and she's like, you know, if she has children because you know, if she's been sex trafficked, the chances are she, you know, before pregnant, maybe she's got children and that's what's keeping her from getting. Inside that goes back to another comment that was made by the family that she wouldn't know the words that Brad used.

2:23:50 I know exactly what you're. And what was the word that? I kind of freaked out. It was like she won't be the supplier of grandchildren. I'm sorry, what? You can be in a lesbian relationship and have children for one thing, but to you the. That language really got me I. Thought so. Too and he used he he repeated it in the interview. So problematic. Oh, I was like, oh, we are not. But do you females and suppliers? But do you see also what I mean? Like the family never accepted her. They claim to be close.

2:24:30 But then, you know, if that's your mentality and you're saying that on camera. Yeah, you can be a straight woman and not want children. Like it has so many things here that are wrong with that statement. I just found it that no, I'm sorry. You need to really rethink that, Brad. Bradley, Bradley. Bradley, Bradley, Bradley. Yeah, yeah. What about you? What any? I don't have a lot to add to what you've said, I think. I think what you've said is is probably right. It's. Taking me a long time to come to that I. Know, but I can also see I don't think she committed suicide in that.

2:25:06 I don't think she's jumped overboard. I don't the sex trafficking thing I can come out, but how is it that nearly 30 years later we don't know anything like I just think in this day and age. That's the other thing that we didn't mention actually is they set up a website for Amy the family did and they noticed these hits that were coming. I think it was from Barbados, wasn't it? From an IP address in Barbados, yes. And it they, they noted that this particular IP address would always ping on significant days to the family.

2:25:45 So on Ron or Ivor's or Brad's birthday, on Amy's birthday on Christmas. And it was enough of AI guess a coincidence to make them think, Oh my God, maybe this is Amy just checking in, seeing what else is going on, seeing what activity there is. Again, nothing's been corroborated. It's not like the FBI have been able to trace where that IP address is coming from or. Anything like that? So, no, you know, I just think there's so much hope for this family. I don't know. It's yeah, I don't know. I, I, I've my gut feeling is that she's not alive.

2:26:23 I. Feel like if she was. Alive she would have made. Contact, I mean, I think the family have done an incredible job at getting out, you know, this information about a disappearance that I just feel and that's where I'll go back to that whole I don't think that she would have been chosen to be sex trafficked for this reason that she was too identifiable, too loved and too wanted by her family that she would have been found by now because of that. I really honestly think if she was out there doing that, one of these, I just think these people who think they have seen her, want to have seen her.

2:26:57 Yeah, this and the. Thing we didn't talk about is Brad thought when they went back to Curacao a month after her disappearance, he thought he heard her call out, call out to him in a passing car. Yeah. And they followed that passing car. And when they got to the end of it, it was a man alone in his van. But I've listened to podcasts of other people who have missing family members and they say they hear them everywhere. They see them everywhere. And you have to do a double take before you're like, oh, no, no, that's not my missing loved 1.

2:27:28 So he, he, I think that's not really, you know, worth the wait of, of anything. But it goes to the distress of the family and just the impact of all of this and. There's also the fact that there was a number of sightings of Amy in a particular area and I think it was Barbados. Could have been curious now and they went there to follow it up and they actually found this woman that was being sighted constantly and it was a just a doppelganger basically. She did look like Amy, very similar. She was not American.

2:27:57 She had another like accent altogether. So as soon as she spoke, anyone would have known that she wasn't Amy. But, yeah, so I think, you know, a lot of people are this thing if you don't know someone, I really question if you've never met that person in your life. And you see someone on a on ATV show going, oh, this person's missing. And you go, oh, my God, that's the person I saw three months ago. Yeah, No, I'm sorry. I I kind of call bullshit. So do I, I think you kind of go, Oh my God. It's like, yeah, I mean, because you want it to be, you want to be the core, you want to be the person.

2:28:28 I'm not just not saying this as an egocentric, like hurtful thing like, but to be the person who found that person to be like, Oh my God, I made the, I made the connections. I'm going to be able to solve this. You want to do that for someone. And I, but I just, I don't know. I just don't, I don't put a whole lot of weight. I'm not saying they didn't see her and it never happened, but I just, I think there can't be too much weight put on them when they're not being able to be corroborated and things like that.

2:28:52 But yeah, oh, I just, it's awful. Now, the other little bit of information I find this really interesting is that a fragment of jawbone, A jawbone was found washed up. I want to say. Was that Curacao? Was it? Yes, it was. Curacao So yeah, so literally in that that area, a jawbone washed up on shore and at the time it was tested for actually thought it was Nelly Holloway. It was tested for that and was proven to not be Nelly Holloway. Now that jawbone has never been tested with for DNA for a match with Amy.

2:29:32 Why I don't this is I don't understand why if I was the family. You'd be pushing. You would, I mean to just to rule it out and just be like, because I mean to finally get some sort of closure. Not that it would give you all the answers. No, it would not at all. At least you'd know that we need to stop looking like. But surely you're pushing forward to try and get the DNA and get a? Yeah, I don't understand why that hasn't. No, it's like how hard is it to run her DNA against? Really don't get that.

2:30:00 Yeah, I don't either. But I find that interesting because no, it hasn't been much to anybody else. No, no. And they have, it has been tested. Yeah. Against others, yeah. So. Yeah, maybe watch this space. I don't know. I don't. Know I feel like that's been sitting around for too long and hasn't been done. Yet I don't get it. I don't understand that piece. Piece of evidence, actually. Yeah. But I mean, I think that that would, you know, still in the theory that I'll put forward that the possibility that someone did then throw, you know, in the in the sea or whatever, Yeah.

2:30:29 Still fits. Yep. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. All right, just to end on, I was like, OK, so, so much shit happens. Well, sorry. You look at a cruise and you think it's all happy, fun, great. I'm like, I just want to. Fuck a formal wear, but anyway. For those who love it, yeah, I'm like, I just wonder how many things like this happen on cruise. Ships, right? Yeah. Now I found so much, I'm just going to give you incidents that have happened on the Rhapsody of the Seas. Oh no, I don't want to go cruising and really don't.

2:31:10 After after researching this in general, I was like oh I'm out. Nope. Nope. I will, Yep. Oh, just on one boat, yeah. So this is just incidences, yeah. Rhapsody of the Seas New Year's Day 2010 A 15 year old American passenger was raped by a crew member. She had been seasick during the Australian New Zealand round trip and cruise and was resting alone in a cabin when a man wearing a bartender's uniform entered and raped her. December 2013. An Australian passenger fell overboard during a trip to New Caledonia.

2:31:44 An extensive search was made and his body was found. April 2016 the boat was hit by a Rogue Wave in Santorini. Hang on, hang on. A Rogue Wave? Apparently. A Rogue Wave? A Rogue Wave. It struck at 4:00 AM. It broke windows of 6 passenger cabins and LED in so much water that it flooded staterooms on decks 2 and 3. Yeah, like that's not giving you a Titanic feels. No, I know right?

2:32:23 September 19th 2016 the ship severely listed so was tilted to the side because of strong winds that were blowing against it and they couldn't quite get the ship to face into the wind. All right. Unfortunately, the Viking Lounge was destroyed during that. As it should.

2:32:46 Be nobody was injured during that one. OK. September 2019, a crew member died going overboard while the ship was docked in Dubrovnik under suspicious circumstances. The so Royal Caribbean said the 3435 year old waiter committed suicide, but his family in India vehemently denied that right. In October 2023, the US State Department actually used the Rhapsody of the Seas to evacuate U.S. citizens and their families from Israel after the outbreak of the Gaza war. That's just an interesting little TPS.

2:33:23 At least it's something good. Something. Good happened in September 2025. SA must 40. 2 So this boat's still floating around. Still going A passenger jumped overboard as the ship docked in Puerto Rico because he was facing a bill of $16,000 in the onboard casino and he also brought in more than $15,000 cash onto the ship, which was prohibited. I think $10,000 was the limit and he was later arrested so he survived jumping from the second deck of the ship. Yeah. So yeah, that's just the Rhapsody of the Seats like Notable mentioned.

2:34:03 Oh, oh so much. Yeah, a lot of people die on cruise ships. Basically, if you've got a cruise planned. Tell you speak. Careful. Yeah, especially. Going pairs. Going pairs don't go anywhere alone. Don't light up a room. Totally. All right, this is a long. Oh my God, it is to freak. Well, we just topped our longest episode I think. Did we? Oh my God. You're welcome, people. Bit of a bumper. Let us know on the social DMS. Let us know what you think. Comment on the posts that Meg does on like Instagram, Facebook.

2:34:43 Let us know what your theories are. We're really, really curious to see definitely. Because I mean, there's so many and there's so much information out there. I'm sure there are things we haven't covered today. Let us know what you think. Next week, we're bringing you the Matthew Leveson case. I, this one touches me. I feel like I just every time I think of Matthew Leveson, I think of his dad and I just. Yeah. All right. So stay tuned next week for that one. Thank you for joining us again. Stay curious, grand besties.

2:35:09 Bye.