Episode 67 - Elizabeth Struhs & The Saints Cult

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties for another episode. Here we are again. Another week, another Friday. I feel like they're coming around very quickly at this end of the year body. Oh, that's actually quite scary. I was talking. To one of the mums at basketball training last night. And she was like, you know, my grandma used to say that as you get older, the years go faster. And she thought, no, you know, it's the same number of hours, the same number of days. But my God, do the years go fast? Oh, it's crazy.

0:41 It was. It's January, right? Yeah. I, I feel like May to October, yeah, just disappeared. I don't even know where it went, No. I honestly don't know. Yeah. No, I don't know how we're here. I really don't on the train, the bullet train of like, I don't know. Yeah, Towards the end of the year. I actually heard an ad the other day for Black Friday sales and I'm like, hold on. Wait, what? That's when I normally do all my Christmas. Show that's on its way that's not far away I'm. Gonna have to really start thinking about all this.

1:12 I was literally saying to my kids the other day, like, I've never been into Halloween, but I actually like Halloween at the moment. I've never liked it really. But no, I'm down for it because I feel like that, like it's like a holding place before we can actually go, Oh my God, wait, it's nearly Christmas until I can get to there, then it's I don't have. To think, one week away, fuck off, or by the time this comes out it's only a few days away, a few. Days away. Yeah, it's just Friday, isn't it?

1:36 Oh, Yep, Yep, Yep. Just mental it is, absolutely. Is that literally a sign we drive past on our way to school every morning? They stupidly assholes keep putting on it like you know, 10 weeks till Christmas. My my kids have to read it every time we drive past. Oh yeah, do they have anything on their list yet? Oh, my kids have got stuff on their list. Yeah, yeah. I feel like some years, like it's really hard. This year I feel like I'm like just, Oh my God, we're gonna. Have to pair it back. Pair it back.

2:06 Yeah, like, yeah, save some for the birthday. List yeah and I love hearing other people's Christmas traditions of how they do gifts and things like because everyone is so different and each to their own on how you choose to do it. I'm I'm, but I'm fascinated on how, you know, like, I don't know, just I saw my parent last night and how they, she does like that's three gifts from Santa and then one gift from them. Yeah, you know, and that sort of thing. Whereas I feel like I don't know, there's too much fucking wrapping in my house and I need to pair it back.

2:34 And, you know, not that I probably, I mean, not saying I spend more or less to that place, it does that, but or any of those sorts of things. It's just so interesting hearing how various people deal with it because I just feel like it's just too much. Yeah, it's the kids get so much and you know, I feel like last year I feel the same as you. We were scratching our heads almost, which is ridiculous as to what to get the kids, whereas this year they both kind of are due for things. That they might need like Lucas Lucas.

3:00 Actually needs a new bike, yeah. Or we'll do in the next sort of maybe few months, yeah, yeah. So I think that that's a good one, yes. In terms of what they want, I'm like, Oh my God, it's just crap. Oh well, my kids don't want crap. There's Brody particularly wants really bloody expensive. Oh. Yeah, it's either. Well, Lucas is number one thing. An iPad mini. I'm like, you're not getting a freaking iPad mini. Brody wants a full gaming computer. Oh yeah, Actually, he, you know what he was, he was trying to get me on board the other day.

3:32 I'm sure he would. Yeah. Like I'll get he's like Emma and she'll get to Mark. He's. Like do you think like a a computer with a screen or a laptop would be better? I'm like, you probably need to talk to Peter about that Do. You know how many times he's asked me? Have you spoken to Peter yet? You spoke to Peter yet? But Peter wasn't home, so yeah, he would. He would have been. Disappointed. He would have been absolutely hankering to get to Peter and get get to direct to the source. Basically that's.

3:57 Right. And if Peter says it's right, then that's what we have to do. Oh God. Actually, you're gonna have to word Peter up before he gets to Peter. 1st, I know, I actually have just realized this myself. I need to speak to Peter. You're. Just like really. Pair back, yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, really minimal specs is what is required on this computer, Yeah. Yeah, I mean seriously, what's an 8 year old gonna do? On a computer that needs to be hyped out need anything like and I look as a family, yeah, we could do with a home computer.

4:22 Sure. So I'm I'm not anti it entirely and that it is something as they're getting older that they do need and because I really don't want them using my work computer and things like that that we that's something I'm happy to invest in yeah as a family. It's not Brodies. But Can you imagine having that conversation? I have had that with him. I said otherwise. That's not what came the other days. Oh, you're. Kidding me? Oh, we're going back again. Are. We right. I might revisit that one if I were you.

4:47 I thought we were really actually, because he was. I'd said to him originally this is an expensive gift. This means there is nothing else. Yeah. Potentially nothing for your birthday either, mate. Yeah. And. And I'm talking potentially even from Grandma. Yeah. And Grandpa, you know, like. Get all your money people to give you money, not. This is a huge thing. And I was trying to like, you know, get him like to pull back of it and he's like, and he because I know what he's like, he wants everything.

5:10 So he was like, oh, but that means, oh, but I can't have this and I can't have that. And I said, well, in in that case, you need to talk to Mason. You need to talk to me and get us on board with having a computer in the house. You know, like so he'd actually done that and had that conversation with Mason and was he was actually like, yeah, no, that's OK, I can come at that. OK, so. Maybe he'd forgotten, or maybe I spoke to him before you'd had that conversation with him. That's so funny. Oh God, he's a.

5:37 Shit, yeah. He's so funny. He's so, so funny. Love him. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Actually, what we're doing this weekend. Oh, yes, yes. Getting his ears pierced. Yes, that is the most exciting. He's so excited so. Has he decided? Has he decided what he's doing? Yep, Yep. What's he going for? He's. Getting one in each year. Yep, and he wants gold and diamonds. Oh my God bless that child, that is the best. Oh, Bougie has Oh. Expect nothing like that. Well, I did say to him we might be more of a cubic zirconia family, but that's OK.

6:09 I. I'm pretty sure at the place where you're going, yeah, that's, that's about the limit of it. But they do have prop like I got my thirds pierced there and my Helix pierced at that place. Yeah, they're, they're gold. Yeah, yeah. Cubic zirconia is in them. Yeah, yeah. Oh, look, yeah. I mean, I've got a pair of like little diamond studs that he put up to the ear to like, go does it, How does it look, you know, and. And he was like, oh, can I wear these? And like, no, not now, but maybe at a point when you're ready that that's something you can maybe pop in Cause I've got actually I've got them on today is his little ones that he got me for Christmas a few years back when he was beautiful mad spider man boy and their little spider man earrings that I think I'm from Pandora, like, you know, and he spotted them and he's like mum and he wanted to buy them for me for Christmas.

6:52 Oh, that was so. Gorgeous. I think he was in. Kinder at the time, it was so sweet. Absolutely. Like though, but you have to have them. Yeah, I want you to wear them. So I do every now and then pop them in and he's and he's very much obsessed with them at the moment saying like, you know, I'll be able to wear them and I'm like, yes, and he'll be able to wear these eventually. I think maybe pop into his head as well because I think they said to me with these I can't change them for like 6 months or something.

7:15 It's a long time. I thought it was like 6 weeks. No, I think it's like it's lots of months. Oh, wow. So telling me has to be like pretty sure about the one she chooses. Yeah, because. He's actually also spotted what he wants from. Etsy, yes. It's a pair of earrings that are axolotls. I thought you're going to say basketballs because I've seen some cool basketballs. Same. Same. No, no, Axel. Fuck, maybe. Kyle Buddy earrings. Kyle earrings. Yeah, well, if you can't take him with him, at least you can wear him.

7:44 Can you take?

7:49 Him. With him. Imagine that in your car or like in the school bag or so. Yuck. The sliminess. Gross. He's so great. He's such a little. Freak yuck. Yuck, yuck. We don't really have a lot on this weekend. We've just got like sports. Tomorrow night I'm babysitting my nephews because my my mum and dad and my brother and sister-in-law are going to my sister in law's parents 50th wedding anniversary. Oh wow, isn't that impressive? Yeah, so looking after my nephews. I'm really looking forward to that.

8:23 Yeah. And then on Sunday I've just like blocked out the entire day to clean the house, like to just reset. We've got a hard rubbish next week so I'm just gonna put there is so much shit down the side of my house that day. Might be bringing some shit to your place please. Do you're more than welcome to bring it on Sunday. I love it. And we're just gonna just spring clean this house. Yeah, right. I'm done. I so need that too. Oh yeah. Can't wait for. It oh, my garden. Oh my God, I need to attack it.

8:51 Yeah, really need that Spring just. I was gonna clean up. Yeah, this time of year is shit for the garden. Everything grows, including all the weeds and all the shit you don't wanna grow. Literally like within a few weeks it is just like. It just takes absolutely weather to turn a bit, yeah, Bit of wet, bit of warmth and everything bloody all of a. Sudden Oh yes, yeah, it's dreadful. It's. Bullshit, but we haven't even had that much good spring weather. No. Oh well, the wind. Holy crap. Yeah, that was bad.

9:17 It was awful. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we have I've got a few shout outs for. Yeah, yes, we've had some great stuff coming through this. We really have. We've had so many comments on the socials and that kind of thing. So please keep that up, guys. We love it. Absolutely. We've had some really lovely comments from Jackie J Gibson, Haley and Smudgy. We have two new patreons. We've got Cara Lane and Harriet rappel. Yep, and then we've had a buy me a coffee. I actually can't remember whether I shouted these guys out last week or not.

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10:16 If you like us, please recommend us to somebody who you think might like to listen as well. Yeah. Very, very helpful. Love it. Oh, it's just growing and it's great. It's great. Love it. It's so great. Now, I think before we get into today's case, we probably need to have a bit of a warning. Yeah, because today's episode, although all of our episodes are very heavy, today's episode deals with the murder and death of a young girl, an 8 year old girl. It also deals with religion and cults. And it's just something that if that's not really for you or something you don't feel that you can listen to, please move on.

10:55 Like today might not be one for you because I know we just we're chatting before we hit record. Yeah, this has been a really hard one to research. I think the frustration of it for me has really gotten to me. Same. And yeah, you were saying exactly the same thing. So, oh, we get it. It's a, it's a really hard one, but I really strongly feel that we need to put this case out a bit more and, and make sure that Elizabeth's. So we're speaking today about Elizabeth Struze, the death of Elizabeth Struze.

11:25 And I think we need to keep her legacy going. I know her older sister wants that. Yeah. And so, yeah, we're that's kind of the reason we decided to bring this case to everybody. Definitely, yeah, this is it's there's a lot of things that still need to occur for this case to make change for the future. So yeah. So, yeah, because there's so many failures, like systematic failures, and then also failures in terms of parental, you know, management and all of that. So, yeah. Elizabeth Strews was born in 2013 in Toowoomba, which is in the Darling Downs region of Queensland.

12:04 It's a really beautiful area. Yeah. Inland. So, you know, you think of Queensland, you think beach coastal, but this is slightly inland. It doesn't have a massive population, but it certainly has a very solid population. And everything is there, that it's a city that's known for like, cathedrals, and there's a rainforest not very far away. And it's just a really beautiful part of Australia. Absolutely. And Elizabeth, well, Elizabeth was born to parents Jason and Kerry Strews. They were married for I think it was about 17 or 18 years.

12:43 Actually, no, it was about 20 years at the time of Elizabeth's death. Yes, yeah. And. I think that could be maybe even that could have been 25. Was it OK, So it was. It was a long time. Yeah. At the beginning of their relationship, they were members of a Church of a Pentecostal church. Yeah. By happy clappers. Happy clappers? That's exactly right. You know, they're, they're, yeah, you know, singing and and all of that sort of stuff. Gospel ish almost like group that yeah, very it's AI reckon quite fun kind of style of religion.

13:17 Not your mainstream sort of Catholic, you know, serious, but maybe a little more. Yeah, fun and jovial, and Jason was into it. Not as into it as Kerry. I think he. He's the words that he would use is that he didn't believe in God. Yeah, yeah, at that time. But he wanted to support his wife. Yeah, which I find that really interesting. In terms of their relationship, they only mean very long term marriage and like I guess you don't get to that point in a marriage without it being a very strong relationship.

13:48 Absolutely. But to me, religion is a very basic moral values kind of stuff that interesting that you've built this life with somebody, somebody that you have quite opposing views on, and opposing is probably a little too strong for it. He had no opinion on. What it was? I think and she had a very, but I think that's enough in religious For a religious belief between two people to not believe the same thing in a religion is pretty big deal in a relationship. It definitely caused conflict between them and we'll get, I'll, I'll explain a little bit more about that as we kind of go down the line.

14:24 But Jason and Kerry, like Kerry, as we said they had in the end, in all told, they had eight children. Yeah, their eldest was born when they were part of this Pentecost. Their eldest three children I believe were born well they were members of this Pentecostal church and they did everything that Christians do. They celebrated Christmas and Easter. They it was a very festive type of life that they lived in. As you said, the happy clappers. Every Sunday they go to church and and they were very community minded as well.

15:00 Then Carrie met a man by the name of Brendan. I've just had a Stevens. Thank you. Oh my God I can't believe I just had a mental. Blank. By the name of Brendan Stevens at school. So they met at a school gate and were having a bit of a chat and they really started talking more and more about religion. Yeah. And Brendan had been to the Pentecostal church that Kerry was a member of, and he got to a point there where he wanted to become a pastor. Yeah, he was part of the fellowship, what they call. So I guess that's a part of like, you know, that almost training and he would be, he would give speeches at places and.

15:42 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the church, the Pentecostal church, basically said to him at the end of this training or at the end of this fellowship that he actually wasn't going to become a pastor. No, they, well, they actually said to him like you need to leave. Yeah, his views were far too extreme. Yeah. And it wasn't aligning with their beliefs and what they felt was the word of the Lord. And so he left and I'm sure was pushed out because. You know that he gave, he gave a speech, I think it was actually in Brisbane.

16:14 He went to something as part of his fellowship. He went to Brisbane and he gave some speech. And when he returned they said to him basically, yeah, to extremists. But not only that, he was actually within that speech. He was speaking negatively of the church and saying they were wrong. And so they were really the pastors were saying, well, I don't think what we align. If you think that we're wrong, why do you want to be a pastor? Yeah, like, so it was, it was a bit interesting. They were very they were questioning him on that of like, we don't understand where you're heading here.

16:46 If you think we're wrong, What why do you want to be part of this? So we think that it's best that you, you don't because we won't be putting you in a position of any further because you clearly don't have the same beliefs that we we do. Yeah. So what does he decide to do? He decides to create his own. Yeah, religion, I guess. We said to them, I'm going to go out and I'm going to. Do my own my own thing. So he started an at home church. Oh my God, I mean that in and of itself Jesus. But Kerry didn't know a huge amount of people with this.

17:15 This gets me a bit. Does this get you a bit? Because the story is that Kerry didn't really know that many people at the church all that well. And so Brendan very easily convinced her to come over to his new church. And in that look, I feel maybe her beliefs were at that extreme end anyway. And was she was very, I mean, as these things happen, these this was a cult at the end of the day. Ohh. Absolutely, It's called. What it is? Yeah. Acceptable people, yeah, will fall prey to people like Brendan Stevens.

17:49 And I think Kerry was just in that exact right sort of time in her life where and had probably developed some of these views on her own anyway, and it was just then taken to the extreme by her then following Brendan to his. What they called themselves was the Saints. Yes, so he would hold. I believe that they were Saints walking on earth.

18:13 He would hold church services in his home. They prayed everyday. This became so extreme that they basically shut out the outside world. Aside from the fact that they all did have jobs, Yes. So. And very normal jobs. So Jason Struze was a Baker, and I actually don't know what Kerry did for work. I think she was stay at home mom. She was stay at home mom. I think she'd been a teacher, maybe Brian. She had been a teacher, yeah, but that was, that was, I think maybe before she had. Before she had children, I think, but then, yeah, she was stay at home mom.

18:53 Yeah, at this point sort of thing, yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, these are people who are part of the community. They're going out, you know, doing what needs to be done to earn money. Part of what Brendan would have them do is basically though go and they each week when they would come to their Sunday service where they would pray every day but on a Sunday, part of that sermon would be each person explaining how they had attempted to bring someone else to the church. They all had to have a minimum, one person that they had attempted to bring, if not brought along with them on a Sunday.

19:30 Yeah. And they all had to tell their story of how they had interacted with someone. This was so this. I find this really interesting. It was a very antisocial church in so many ways. So much so. But this was a very strong element of what Brendan would preach to them to do. Don't. You think that, like if they were Saints walking on Earth, they would have all found each other? Like, why do you have to recruit people? Yeah, but in in doing so, they've holes in all this shit. Oh, there's so many, so, so many.

19:56 But in doing all of this shit, people would come like, because I guess, you know, if you've got a work colleague who's like talking about this stuff, look, maybe it's attracts people to go and go, oh, might go and see what he's talking about. It sounds lovely. Yeah, because they he talks about they talk about how they sing and pray and it does your. Sound to that anyway, so I guess if church and things are your thing and I know and there's speaking to other people who I know who you are religious often have said to me that as an adult you will often like sort of shop around for a church because many of them, even though they might be the same religion can have very different, you know, like slightly different aspects to them that you know, definitely align maybe more with you.

20:37 Some of them might be more social than others and things like that. That depending on what you're looking for as an adult, often they will shop around for churches. So it's not uncommon for already a religious person to kind of go, oh, OK, well, where I'm going, I'm not really getting what I want to, you know, I'll come and check out what you've got going on. So it wasn't unheard of. What I find really interesting though is most people would only ever attend one service and then be like maybe not.

21:03 But as much as that freaks like that's like, you know, yeah, like people just walk like Oh my God, Oh no, not for me. It flows me. Then the people that how they help, quickly they would become indoctrinated. Into this. So basically, Brendan Luke Stevens was the leader. Yeah, right. He was married to a woman by the name of Loretta Stevens. And they had eight children as well. Yeah. So they had Andrea Louise Stevens, Occasionery Stevens, Camilia Claire Therese Maria Sebastian James and Alexander Francis.

21:38 And they actually had one more daughter as well, an older daughter who didn't, who sort of went away from the religion. Right. She's not really spoken about at all, which is completely fair. She's chosen to remove herself from this. Yeah. So we, we don't really need to talk about her. No. But basically. So they had this family of 7-8, the mum and their dad, they've got the strews family on board. So Kerry and Jason actually had in the end by the time Elizabeth was born. So Elizabeth was their youngest daughter, born in 2013.

22:15 By the time she was born, they had eight children of their own. Yeah. Their eldest being Jade and their second eldest being Zachary. So we don't know the names of the rest of the children, nor do we need to. They were. All minors at this point in time. That's right. And they were all minors. Yeah, that that's right at the time of this incident, yeah. They also along the lines recruited into the Saints a girl by the name of or a woman by the name of Kita Martin. Now she was a friend of. Zachary Zachary's yes.

22:51 And yeah, she came into the church because Zachary recruited her. I think she had a pretty not great upbringing and was definitely at a bit of a loose end and was looking for something. Yeah. And found her place within this cult. The one that this is the one that really gets me. This is Lachlan and Samantha Showenfish. So Cameron Show and Fish, Lachlan's dad has been interviewed. You can listen to interviews with him. He's done interviews with the ABC, Channel 9 and. Yeah, Current Affair. Thank you.

23:27 I knew it was like 60 minutes on Current Affair. I couldn't remember which one. Yeah. And he basically tells the story of how quickly Lachlan and Sam were indoctrinated into this. So he this was around COVID time, so 2020 or 2021 early. Actually I think it was early 2021, Lachlan had his first COVID vaccination and he rang to tell his dad. I've had the first Pfizer vax and, and his dad said to him, or just make sure you have the booster in three weeks because you know, it's really important. They're saying now this is what you might need to make sure you do that.

24:03 And he also in that conversation, Lachlan also mentioned about how, you know, there's people who don't even want this. That's so stupid. Why wouldn't you get it? You know, this is going to save lives and blah, blah, blah. 3 weeks later, Cameron calls Lachlan to make sure they've had their boosters and Lachlan's like I am not putting that poison into my body. His direct, his direct quote to his dad was putting having this, having that vaccination will damn your immortal soul. So in three weeks he's gone from beings.

24:37 Now another thing worth mentioning, Lachlan was an engineer, Sam was a hairdresser. They had a couple of children. Yep, and they were just hard and fast indoctrinated into this. Real quick. So you went from calling the these people he interacted with, you know, it was weird to totally in it. Yeah, so he worked with Acacia and Camellia Stevens. They were office workers at the engineering firm that he, they were admin staff at the engineering firm that he worked at. So, yeah, he, he'd, he'd mentioned them so many times previously, saying all these two weird sisters that work at work and, you know, they, they dress weird and they're, you know, they're really odd.

25:19 They're a bit odd, yeah. To sort of like within three weeks. Yep. And it got to the point where he shunned Lachlan and Sam shunned their families. They didn't speak to their. Now I'm talking close knit, beautiful, beautiful family. Absolutely, I mean hearing Cameron speak is really heartbreaking. The way he spoke speaks about the fact of like literally from a conversation with him, you know, that which which was their normal loving, you know, see you later catch UPS catch with his next week, whatever sort of conversation to literally the next conversation being like you're wrong, dad.

25:53 You have no, you know, you're you need to, you know, hear the word of the God of of the Lord and all these things like that. It was and they're a religious family and this Cameron speaks of that very much so. And like, you know, that we've always, you know, taught religion to our children and being very much part of the church. But I mean, and he says because they were farmers as a family that he said, you know, we didn't always get to church on a Sunday, but that was always our. Aim had to house beaded milking.

26:16 Yeah, there was stuff that needed to be doing on the farm. We wouldn't get there, but typically we were a religious family. And, you know, so to go from that to this absolute extreme of, like, every phone call with him just got worse and worse and worse of how aggressive, you know, Lachlan became in terms of how wrong his dad was, which made him, like, evil. Yeah, it was. Oh, that's just horrible, Awful to hear that out of your child's mouth. Did. You think it was so sad as well that in the he knew, as in Cameron knew a certain conversation was probably gonna be the last one that he had with Lachlan because he he knew he was pulling away and really closing off.

26:53 He tried to sort of, you know, hold an intervention for him. Yeah, but he said he said to Lachlan at the time. You know, Mum and I will always love you when this blows up and it will blow up when something happens or you feel you need to get out, you come to us because we will help you. Always, always love you. Yeah. You know that as a parent, like that's just to know that's the conversation you're having with your kid that. Oh God, it's so sad. And I guess all you can do as a parent, I mean, not in that point in time, not knowing what comes.

27:23 Yeah. Thinking to yourself, yeah, this will blow up. We'll we'll get there to a point where he comes back to us because this will blow up. But to blow up how it did and how it, well, that's just yeah, yeah, you couldn't predict that on. Our Oh, not at all, no. In July of 2019, Elizabeth, so she was aged 6 at the time. Elizabeth was getting sick and her mum. So the beliefs of this cult of the Saints was that so they were so extreme that they believed that God heals, heals everything. And so they shunned medical intervention.

28:11 They wouldn't even take a pan at all. To the point of Brendan at one stage himself had a really severe bike accident on on the road. He was hit by a car, really, really badly injured, refused all medical intervention, would not go to hospital. And he needed to, apparently. He spent, I believe it was six months. It was in bed. Yep. Recovering from this. He literally had, like, they had some. Yeah, I think he had glue on his head, sticking his head. Skull. Skull, back. Back. Yeah. In bed for six months.

28:43 He had internal injuries. They don't even know the extent of it because he wouldn't go to hospital. And yeah, they basically patched him up as best they could on the side of the road and he went home. Yep.

28:57 He would have had broken. Bones. He absolutely had broken bones. Like they don't know like. Couldn't say which ones. But like he he kept telling people I'm not going to hospital. I, the Lord, will heal me. Well, yeah, like time heals all wounds. Well, yeah, you know, that's the same, but the same goes but he. Could have been in hospital and out again and on crutches say or whatever. And you know, he's, I don't know, a couple of months, three months Max back to 100%. He was never no, this is but he could have been if he'd gone into hospital, whereas instead he spent six months bedridden and with lifelong probably, you know, impact of what That's that that cause for him for sure.

29:35 What a Dick. What? AI mean seriously? OK, well, if that's what you want to do, you do that to yourself, that's your choice. That's fine. As an adult. As an adult, you do you do you? You know, if you believe that and you want to suffer through that, I don't get it. But that's your choice, right? Yeah. In, as I said before, in July of 2019, when Elizabeth was only 6 years old, she started to get really, quite, really quite sick. Now it got to a point where she was actually essentially in a coma before Jason took her to hospital.

30:13 Now at the time, Jason was not a member of the Church of the Saints. He did not believe what they did, but he was still married to Kerry. Now this is where I was going to talk about their marriage a bit about their marriage because Kerry says that at that point in their relationship, she was ready to leave him. She could not believe that he didn't believe. And that by him not believing that was a direct, indirect defiance of everything about, Yeah, basically her whole, her whole everything. I wish she had gone.

30:51 Yeah, fuck off. Fuck. Off. Sorry, just. Oh no, because I'm not gonna get so angry. I can't. I know. So Elizabeth, Jason takes Elizabeth to Toowoomba Base Hospital, their local hospital. She is literally, literally, according to the medical staff, minutes from death. She apparently weighed what a typical 3 year old weighs, 15 kilos. Yeah, which is sorry. And she was 6/6. So she was emaciated, she was malnourished. She was in a coma. She was suffering and oh, big time. So her pH, so the acidity of her blood, her blood was so acidic at the time.

31:31 She was in diabetic ketoacidosis at the time. Yeah. Her blood was so acidic that the registrar, Toowoomba Base Hospital said that he has only ever once seen blood that acidic again, and it was on an older person. He said he couldn't believe that she was still alive. She needed such specialist management that they had to airlift her to the Royal Children's Hospital in Brisbane. Yeah, and Jason went with her and she ended up spending about 5 weeks in hospital. Obviously, they came to the diagnosis of diabetes type 1.

32:08 Diabetes minutes of her arrival in the hospital, she was diagnosed with that. Like to me that says a lot, you know, like that, you know, this was a very quick, easy thing that they could have dealt with a week prior to this as a minimum. Like as in when she first started showing symptoms, there was no need for any of her feeling any of this what she went through. And you know, in this day and age, diabetes, type 1 diabetes especially, I mean type 2 diabetes is a bit of a different story, but type 1 diabetics can live the they have the same life expectancy of anyone else, anyone else in the population.

32:47 There is no reason. That this has a. Negative. Impact medical intervention these days to be able to support people with. Tolerated. Well known. You know, we've got insulin there. Well, this is the thing that I really, I feel like blowing holes again in this scenario of like, OK, as a religion, they don't want medical intervention, OK, and science being part of like their lives and what? And that, OK, if that's what you choose, that's one thing. But insulin is naturally produced. I understand that it's synthetically produced for very don't to be able to have enough to, you know, to treat these people that, you know, 'cause there's lots of people that need insulin and things like that.

33:26 But it is a naturally produced thing. It's not like people were saying she has diabetes and we're going to inject some sort of chemical into her. Yeah, you're actually injecting something in that your body creates on its own. And it's. Perfectly. It's too cool. Your body just doesn't produce enough of it, so we're gonna help you by by giving it to you externally. That I really struggle with of like trying to like I try to come at people's different religions and different thoughts. No, no, this goes.

33:54 But this is well beyond that in that this is a natural producing thing. You are not giving this person chemotherapy, let's say, you know, like you put you're not pumping in something that shouldn't be there. Yeah, in a typical. Yep. Body, body, yeah. I just, I get, I get what you're saying. Like it's so extreme. Like you can almost maybe understand people not wanting to put certain chemicals into their body like. Chemo, if people are gonna as an adult choose, I don't want that vaccine or whatever like if that in that scenario, then you deal with the you deal with the consequences of that sort of thing.

34:24 But this is a natural producing thing and a child. Yeah, I get I, I see. I totally get what you're saying. I agree. So basically though, when they were at the Royal Children's Hospital, Jason was the one learning to administer the insulin and figure it all out, make sure her levels are all right, blah blah blah. It's AI mean. It would be a massive learning curve. Oh, totally. Kerry did not visit once. Her daughter was minutes away from death and she never ever visited her in hospital. God'll heal her, she's fine.

35:02 Regardless of whether you think God is going to heal her, do you not want to go and see your own daughter? I don't know whether this played a part in that. I don't think it did, but I'll say it anyway. Obviously, when they first arrived at the hospital, part of that process of like, obviously first and foremost get her stable. But one of the next things they did do was contact child protection. Yeah, because it was a clear case of neglect, because this child should not have been got to that point before being brought to hospital.

35:31 So they were contacted and they were involved in this scenario at this point. So obviously they were being questioned around that. And I, I don't, we don't know, I guess, whether child protection were keeping her from her. You know, I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt here. I don't believe so, but there's that layer at least to know that that is something that's going on around this at the time. I think, yeah, absolutely. But I can't imagine this was the first incident where child protection had been involved with this family.

36:01 Yeah, I don't think they could have, without doing a very thorough investigation, have kept a mother from her own child. Yeah, yeah, I think they could have at that point. But yeah, yeah, Oh my God. But with how bad I was, I don't I wouldn't have. Yeah, OK. But I but that's not been reported anywhere. No, it's not. So I don't think that's what happened. I'm just saying that I we don't you're. Giving absolutely any doubt. But they let, I mean, obviously they're letting Jason, if that's the case. But he was the one who was saying, I don't know.

36:29 I I've, I've brought her here. I want to make sure we get this sorted. I want to, you know, learn how to do this. And we're going to get this right. I will never let this happen again. Yeah, well, his words, he was, you know, the whole way along. Yeah. Whereas he should. Have brought her in earlier like he. He expressed regret. For that he expressed regret. Not enough weak piece of shit, no, but Kerry was doubling down on the fact of like we should never have bought her here. Oh. God, God I know.

36:54 So charges were brought upon both of them for this neglect they were charged with. Failing to provide the necessities of life with what they were charged with, Yeah. So what ended up happening is so Jason actually pled guilty and he was given a six or 12 months suspended sentence, I can't remember. Now 12 months suspended and yeah. He served none of that time because he did a deal. Yeah. In testifying against Kerry in her trial, she was sentenced to 18 months. She ended up serving. Five months, which is fucked.

37:28 Which is so fucked up. It's so fucked up and. Sorry, it was six months he was sentenced to Indian that was suspended. Yeah. And basically given because he was the parent saying no, no, no. I will ensure this never happens again and testify against Kerry. He didn't end up actually spending any time in jail. But he'd also proven that he was administering the insulin, and that's stable. She was back at school. She was, you know, living. Essentially, he'd done all the right things, he'd ticked all the boxes.

37:57 Whereas Kerry was still to that, like as she she plead not guilty, she was saying that she did nothing wrong. God will heal her. Do you also think just really quickly just reminded me when I said she was back at school, Yeah. Do you think it's weird that they didn't homeschool their children because they were going out and getting all these worldly ideas at at school and then coming home to this extreme view? Yeah, that would have been really hard for the kids. I know I mean and hard for I think someone like Brendan to then influenced if they're but they want I think they wanted them out in the world though, to be able to.

38:34 Recruit more, Yeah, OK. I think that, and the thing was, this is what I got, what really gets me with this whole, with this cult, particularly of again, it was said before how quickly people were indoctrinated into it and the these were such extreme views, such extreme views that they were so much believing of this that I guess, yeah, they were like, yeah, go into the world because we're not going to lose them. Yeah, OK. Yeah. Which flaws me of how that is the case and normally. Like cults are about control, Yeah, I mean.

39:07 It was very much control, very much control. But yeah, not controlling them as in like don't go out in the world. They were letting them out to do those that go to work in the, you know, in your office space and in, in those places where there was one, one guy who I think I mean Lachlan, who was no, no, sorry, he was the engineer. Someone else was like a shoe repair. Yes, business. And yeah, you know, they were working in these everyday businesses dealing with the public. Interacting with the public all the time.

39:31 Yeah, but that's where I go. There's some other psychology, logical level of whatever Brendan was doing that there was no breaking. I mean, to this day, no breaking of these people's beliefs of this, No I. I know it. I know it absolutely blows my mind. So basically, while Kerry's in prison, so she was, did we say what she was sentenced to? Yeah, she was sentenced to failing to provide the necessities of life for 18 months, served only 5. So when she went to prison, now you've got to have a bit of a think about this.

40:07 Jason's at home with eight children. He is. How old are they? No, he's only home with seven children. 7 Sorry, because I guess we probably should mention too. Then the eldest Jade. Yeah. So she made a breakaway from the family at about the age of 16. So she realized that. So she was as being the eldest, she was raised in the Pentecostal church as a a younger child. And you'd hear lots of interviews with her. She's very vocal around all of this and really respect, respect her and me too. Her. She still believes in her religious beliefs and has those and they're very like a standard religious beliefs like so she he has at the age of 16, though she started to, well before that, even changing over to Brendan's church and joining that.

40:51 She did struggle with it. And in particular, like she said, because she celebrated Christmas and things like all of a sudden there was no birthdays, there was no Christmases. And as a kid, that's big deal, massive, huge take those things away from her. So I think she was easier to, yeah, be out in the world and kind of go. I know there's other things out there and I don't really believe she was. She wasn't as indoctrinated as others, especially like then the next sibling, Zachary, who was definitely, you know, he he got brilliant Kool.

41:18 Aid is it also like the other thing is that Jade, when she was a younger teenager, she came out as being gay. Yeah, well, she realized that, yeah, that's what she was. She says now that she reckon she would have come out even earlier than she did had she not been involved in this, because she knew that this was something that was not going to be accepted. No, but she had these feelings about herself even earlier. Yeah. Yeah, so she left the the house, the home, the family when she was 16. Now she actually went to live with other family members.

41:51 So she did have somewhere to go. Thank God, because when I was first listening to this story, I'm like, what happened to. Yeah, she, like, out on the streets on her own. Like, where did she go? But she did have other family members who took her in, thankfully. Oh yeah. And raised her for the rest of her teenagehood sort of thing. Carries parents even they're very to this day, like sort of are involved and that they don't have these extreme views and they, you know, they're lovely. They're really down to people.

42:15 And yeah, so Jade's, you know, being able to go to people, which fantastic that she had that support to be able to move to. And she did stay in contact with Brendan, and even did. See. Do you mean siblings? Oh, sorry Jason, sorry. She even did see her siblings somewhat, some regularly. That this is the thing, as we were saying, like typically, if you as a child of the people in these cults, if you were then to like move, say no, I don't want a part of this, they would shun you entirely and not let you anywhere near those people in the cold again to, you know, you don't have them infiltrating and being able to take away people out of the cult.

42:47 But that's not how Brendan did it, you know? And so he did allow them to still see each other. But I think also the fact that Jason wasn't in it probably helped because I know I'm pretty sure Jade didn't have a lot to do with her mum. I think all of the contact was through Jason definitely that that would have helped I guess in that, in that way. But anyway, so Kerry's now we're sort of fast forwarded again. Kerry's in prison, she's serving this what ends up being a 5 month sentence. Yeah, Jason is at home with seven children, Yes, and he's a Baker, so he's doing these early mornings and.

43:25 And juggling a young child with. Diabetes, that's right. There's a lot going on. It's a very stressful time. And people around him, I'm talking work colleagues, I'm not talking the Saints, but work colleagues sort of and family, other family members as well describe that he had basically a mental breakdown. He it was just all too much. It was all overwhelming. And unfortunately in that moment of absolute vulnerability and of him hitting rock bottom, who comes in and sweeps in with a perfect solution to all of this?

43:59 Fucking Brendan Stevens, that piece of shit. He. Turned to his son Zachary 1st and said to him like I'm not coping. And Zachary, who was very much in with Brendan, turned to him and said, we've got to pray because God heals all. And so Brendan did do that. And this is where I find this really this interviews of like him, police interviews, you hear him talking about this fact of like, like literally immediately he felt better. Like I feel like what he all he did was basically go, oh, just to solve myself of any responsibility.

44:34 And therefore I feel better Prior to that you were being a parent and that's stressful at any time, let alone be on your own. We don't just seven check out of that. No, you don't. Sorry, you don't. You don't, but that's literally what his solution to this was, was just absolve yourself of it. I honestly believe that he. Was he was in his 60s at this time? Well, I think he was. I think he might have just been 60 actually. And he gets baptized. There's video footage of it. You can. Find we're talking at the moment too.

45:02 Like this is 2 months in, Yeah, to carry sentence. This is early days really of like because she's meant to be serving 18 months. Yeah, fuck me. I know, I know. Didn't take long. Nope.

45:16 Weak piece of shit. Oh. He, he had. Oh my God, isn't he? So he gets baptized in the backyard of, I think of Brendan's house. Brendan's house. Yeah. In a bathtub. Yeah, that's outside. And it's all singing and clapping and dancing and rejoicing in the fact that Brendan's finally come over. Kerry says that when she found out this information, she was like, well, I'm gonna, I'm not leaving him anymore. This is the thing and I think actually Brendan has he's on record of saying this too, that prior when so obviously with her going to jail, he really understood that her really doubling down and really like getting like that was.

45:55 He knew that it was just like the end of his marriage that she would come back from her time in prison and that their marriage would be over. Which OK, here's your choice. Your daughter being healthy and with us or staying with your wife who is going to inflict that pain and ending of a life on your daughter? Which do you choose? That motherfucker chose the wife and and decided that he would go down her route of her religion to ensure that his marriage stayed intact. Yeah, a doctor testified at Kerry's trial, one of the doctors from Toowoomba Base Hospital who was one of the first to treat Elizabeth when she first presented.

46:43 And he said, and he even wrote a letter to child protection saying this will happen again. Yep, if this child is allowed in her mother's custody. Which that testimony has been ignored on so many levels. And it makes me feel sick. So after the five months that Kerry's been in prison, she gets let out and she gets she is allowed to go back to the home in which Elizabeth is living now. I. Don't understand? To child protection they never came out to to visit after she was released from prison not. Only that like I even go back to the fact of yes, OK, Jason has said I'm going to look after Elizabeth and make sure this never happens again.

47:33 But I'm returning to the same family home who where there are children living who are in this church and he's going to. I just cannot fathom that child protection did not go further in respect to protecting Elizabeth at that point, even, let alone allowing the mother returning into that same home knowing I don't know how she got fucking parole because she never once said I regret what I did. Oh no, she she never. She actually said the absolute opposite. Yep, she should never have got parole. How, who, who did that?

48:08 That's on them and they they need to be held accountable to. But child protection should have been flagged at that point, Absolutely. Whether it was at five months or 18 months, where no matter what her length of sentence was, that should have been an intervention point for someone coming in and saying we need to check this family home for Elizabeth. And with all the other children like because the other children are in danger too. They fall over at school and break their arm and they're not going to get medical attention either.

48:36 Why there weren't more eyes on this, I don't know. I think for the fact that the kids hadn't had any injuries or anything that was reportable. Lucky. Lucky. I mean, with kids, bloody hell, Jesus. But then also the kids were really kept insulated. What? So I'm saying, yes, of course they go to school. Shit happens at school sometimes. Yeah. But neighbors of them in Timber would say that, you know, as kids, they're riding their bikes, they're out the front. They go, they see there's other kids, they go, do you want to come and play?

49:07 And they were always like, oh, no, no, no. They returned inside. So they didn't really have like, an outdoorsy lifestyle. No, they certainly didn't interact with peers with other children their age unless they were at school. So maybe that's how they avoided any potential injuries. But I mean, kids get sick if you're out at school. They would have. I'm sure those kids would have suffered through different. Illnesses. Absolutely. That were never treated and they just had to, you know, tough it out, tough it out and get over it eventually.

49:37 Healed by God. Yeah. Oh, fuck me. It's so fucking horrible. Yeah, within two weeks. It's 3 was that. 3 Two weeks of Kerry's release, so it took a week. So within two weeks of Kerry's release from prison. Oh yeah, yeah. It was decided amongst the adults. Well, I think it was Jason who actually just, he says they didn't actually think about this prior. It was they were having sort of a bit of a get together of like because Kerry was home and he just stood up out of nowhere. He said God just made him do it.

50:17 And he said Elizabeth is cured. Sorry. What? What?

50:26 And yeah, that's. And Brendan's like, yes, she's cured. God's cured her so. So she doesn't need her insulin anymore. So this was the 1st of January. This happened now in 2022. So Elizabeth, they've withdrawn insulin from her now within 24 hours. So the next day Elizabeth wakes up and she's fine. So they're like, see, see. She's. Good. She is cured. She hasn't had any insulin her. Levels were like where they exactly normally. Are should be in the morning like her. In fact, I think Jason even said her blood sugars were the best they'd been that morning.

51:07 I'm. Sure, he says that. Within a day. Now this is very well documented, very well known. If you don't have insulin for a day as a type 1 diabetic, you begin to go into what is known as diabetic ketoacidosis. This is basically a staged process by which acid builds up in your blood and your body tries to get rid of that and tries to bring your balance back, your pH balance back. Yeah. It does this by increasing your thirst. You start heavy breathing. Your breath smells really sweet. There's lots of ketones in your breath.

51:48 Yeah. The patients eventually become. There's vomiting, diarrhea, excessive urination. Yeah. And someone put it really like kind of beautifully at this moment where because all those things that the body's doing is actually trying to protect the body. That's right and it. Basically, eats itself. Yeah, in order to. Like, keep the brain active in the heart and get enough glucose. Yeah. And someone was said, I can't remember who it was said basically her body was doing more than her parents were ever going to do for her.

52:17 Oh, my God. I was like, Oh my God, that's that's so fucked up. Like. Yeah, but it's true. Her body was fighting. Fighting and fighting so hard to help her. Eventually, so they it got to a point where, you know, this was only a couple of days after the insulin was withdrawn. She couldn't even walk. They brought a mattress into the lounge room and they were all coming over and praying and. And they weren't praying for her to like they were praying for her to be healed by God. That's all that what they were praying for.

52:51 They weren't. Oh, it's just. Carrie and Jason would go off to bed at night and someone else, another member of the church, would stay up and sit with her. I don't even know how I, I, I can't come at it. I think it makes me so. I can't even believe that. I can't believe that, but I do believe it because I know what happened. Yeah, yeah. So basically, Elizabeth falls into a diabetic coma and seven days after the insulin was withdrawn, she takes her final breath. Those seven days would have been at least six would have been excruciating for her.

53:32 When members of the church, I think Brendan, this was in an interview with Brendan, he's like, no, she wasn't suffering. There were no external signs of of suffering at all. And I'm like, fuck off, that is. Bullshit number one for one thing, like couldn't stand up. Stand up there was. The child was probably too scared to show how sick she was. Well, she. Probably no strength to show how scared she was. Nothing left. She was relying on everyone else there, those other adults, to take care of this.

54:03 Is the other thing that fucking makes me so mad. In one of the inter police interviews they're like well she didn't want the insulin. She's fucking eight years. Old. Yeah. Yeah, she's 8 years old. Brendan goes well. She wanted this. Fuck. She did not want this. That is not anyone. She doesn't want anyone. Sure, girl. You fucking brainwashed her to think she doesn't want this, to think that God's going to save her. Yeah, she has no critical thinking skills. She's fucking eight years old. Oh my God and the the one the thing that gets me even more than that is the interviews with the police after this.

54:41 How come out of all of them Jason is the others I understand have had this belief for a long time. Jason's literally been in these like 3 months and he is so like content with the fact of what has taken place. Talk about what happens after her death. Yeah, they all come over. They're praying, singing, dancing. They're dancing out on the lawn. They're dancing around. Her body, they're not praying because she's died. They're praying that she was resurrected. Yeah, She's just sleeping. Yep. And she will rise again.

55:14 Yep. So 3636 hours after her death, they decide that they should probably call 000 because God clearly wants more witnesses. It's not about resurrect getting her help. No, no, no, no, because this must be God's plan that we need to call services in, because then when she goes wherever she's gonna go, more people see that. She's resurrected and part of their religion is hands on people is what helps heal and that was why that so eyes on on people and and hands on was supposedly what she needed to resurrect her from the dead.

55:53 Now I feel so sorry for the emergency services workers who attended the scene because so there was a recruit ambulance officer and two, two qualified ambulance officers who arrived now and two police officers. What they would have walked into, I can't even imagine that would stay with you forever. There's a dead 8 year old in the middle of a lounge room on a mattress on the floor. I can't even imagine that scene. But they did try to perform CPRI. Guess they had to I. Think I'd legally like kind of.

56:27 Very, very intense that she was already deceased and well and truly deceased. Yeah. They've then removed her body from the scene from the house. Whilst they're doing that though, these motherfuckers are singing. And I don't mean sombre. I'm sorry, this is jovial. Joyful fucking singing. Happy clapping. Yeah, beyond and you can hear it in the background of the police interviews and stuff. They do kind of out the front of the. House their body. Can as they start to do the spread according of the scene, like because they realise it's a crime scene very quickly.

57:03 Yeah. And it just, it actually fucking does my head in that how anyone these people are insane. Oh yeah. Because there's no sane person that could do that in front of of that going on. And neighbors say that that that jovial singing and dancing had been happening for basically that entire 36 hours from when she died until her body was taken away. You. Literally don't have any kind of heart. Oh. No, no, no. So obviously, as you said, the police, once they found out she'd been deceased for 36 hours and they were very matter of fact about telling them that they started to ask questions as you do.

57:47 And Jason was the first one interviewed. And they say to him, how is how are you related to this, to Elizabeth? Well, she's my daughter. And they're like, oh, the the police officer's like, oh, OK, right. So can you tell me a little bit about what's happened here? And he basically said that she was cured from her diabetes. Well, clearly not. Quite obviously not. And she's not actually dead. This is God's plan. She's just sleeping. She's just sleeping and she will be resurrected. So just you just need to wait for that because she will actually be resurrected.

58:26 Because as well, this sort of occurred with the 2019 incident where she was taken to hospital and diagnosed with diabetes at the first time. All along, Kerry would never say that Elizabeth going to hospital that time is what healed her. She 100% to this point in time and even now as we speak, believes that it was God that healed her that time, not the hospital. So what? This is just a fucking coincidence that she was near death and you take her to this miraculous building where there's people who know what they're doing and she after a month, let alone like, I mean, it's still it took time, but she was very quickly at least stabilized and then a month later was able to come out of that hospital, you know, a well, however, child who has diabetes and continue her life.

59:21 That has absolutely nothing to do with her. The fact that she was in that facility and with those people, according to her, this was all. God, when Brendan's interviewed about this, he says that medical practitioners kill people all the time, so why would you trust in them? I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? No, they're, they're very rare. And we've we've that's why we did a podcast on the one like one that's very, you know, it's rare that they do that. That's not, that's not a thing. It's not a thing.

59:49 Like it's not a thing. No, but that's why. So they they're at the front of this scenario here, fully convinced that she's not dead and she's going to come back because God heals and she's and God's already healed her once. He's gonna do it again. Brendan again says what? I know why. Does your brain not kick? In no and none of them are sad. Nope. No one's sad. No one's crying. No one's sad. They're not Jason. He fight out, says I'm not sad. Yeah, he said. He's like, I know I'm gonna say her again.

1:00:20 I hope you you should never have seen her again after the last time. Exactly. So what when Brendan in Brendan's police interview, he said, oh, just you wait until the morgue sees her rise. Oh, and I when he said that like, I'm like, how do these police do these interviews too? Because they're so good. There's a female, a cop who leads it when at the actual scene, she and she's interviewed them, she interviewed them back in the 2019 case as well. And she is so damn good. She's being able to react and like not react at this, like, you know, when they say these outrageous fucking things and her response to them is like, OK, and the and the next question, you know, kind of thing.

1:01:05 I couldn't help myself. Me. A bit better or can you give me a bit more detail around? That deadpan look on her face where I, I, I know I wouldn't be able to contain myself. I know it. I'd be like, are you? You cannot be for fucking. Real. Yeah, you cannot actually believe that. No. Oh, yeah, yeah, Brendan's interview is equally as oh, it's disturbing, infuriating in terms. And but at the same time, Jason and Carrie are her parents. The only grace in the grace in that I'll give Brendan is that he's removed and he's not hurt, not that child's parent, but he had responsibility over here in this Senate situation.

1:01:38 He. Just the one who encouraged. He stopped. He did all this, but he. Oh, God. And I mean, he founded this, the Saints. He founded the church cult, cult, cult, cult. Absolutely. Oh God. Oh, it's just phenomenal. Yeah. It's for not. It's unbelievable. It's, it's, it's truly, truly unbelievable. It really, really, genuinely is. I I found it incredibly bizarre that this all played out the way it did. Yeah, I mean. Over over the time after. Oh, this is OK. This is actually, this is the thing out of all of it, maybe excluding the actual death, but this is the thing that breaks my fucking heart.

1:02:19 They never claimed her body and they never held a funeral or anything like that. Oh God. So Jade, yeah, was eventually contacted by the Moor, by the coroner. She found out about this via a journalist. Oh, no, She found out that Elizabeth had died from a journalist. Yes. Yeah. Which is disgusting in and of itself. Like, do you know the Toowoomba strews? Yeah, Yeah, why? Googles it and she finds out there's a death of a child and she's like. Putting 2 together as Elizabeth? Yes, like. But so sorry, this is after Jade had found out that she was.

1:02:57 Yeah, yeah. She gets a phone call from the Mortuary to say we've contacted the next of kin and they don't want to pick up the remains you have. You're the next person. This is where next rite of refusal. Like oh fuck. So of course Jade takes Elizabeth's ashes. They opted to have her cremated. I think Jade opted to have her cremated. I'm not. Really. Oh, Jade have been at that. Point. She was 20. So I mean, that's so young. So. Young to be dealing with that I just. Jade was far too young to be dealing with this, you know.

1:03:34 Imagine how alone she would have felt anyway. And now she's taking responsibility for her youngest sister's ashes. Horrid, horrid, horrid. Oh, how could her parents not want her? This is where I don't. Get that? That's why I can't. I can't see how this is a religion like as in religions are supposed to be the values of a religion. I can always come at like as in, you know, look after others friends, be friendly, you know, be kind, be in loving all those sorts of values. I can always I've as much as I'm so far from not.

1:04:16 I don't believe in God, but if you want to be a good Christian and all those sorts of things, yeah, I think that they are values I absolutely can uphold. But where is this religion? It does not hold any of those basic values that are what they. Cherry pick what they want out of the Bible. Oh, this? Is don't so is how can you be like this is the religion that God's meant to be all healing, but you know, leave your daughter and her body to rot in a morgue. What I don't I? Can't. I can't. I can't even.

1:04:53 This was that this was this is what broke me. Yeah. I'm like, how can you even believing what they believe? Why wouldn't they take her body? Yeah. And you know, if you see. Ever they want to do in their religion, of that it surely is not just leave it in a morgue. Yeah, it makes, it actually makes me feel sick. It's horrid. And that you know where. Oh, that poor. I'm so glad she had Jade because there's no one else in that family. I mean, grandparents were, you know that. Was removed. That would have done that, Yeah.

1:05:26 So I mean, I'm so grateful for Jade, for Elizabeth, like because her fucking parents, absolute sacks of shit. Fuck, I don't even think that. No, that doesn't. Cover it. No. And you know, even before Jason joined the religion what a weak piece of shit he must be because he's not standing up to his wife when he can clearly see that their daughter was so unwell and he let it get to the point where she was in a fucking coma before he did anything about it, no. Yeah, it's no, I go back to that original statement around like religion's big deal in terms of values in a relationship.

1:06:04 And he clearly as much as he held his, he's held his ground of whatever like, oh, I don't believe and you do. And that's fine as long as it doesn't like and but couldn't care less when it doesn't impact him either. Yeah. And I just find that incredibly, like, it was like, to me that's almost as so weak. It's basically like I don't have the energy to believe anything anyway so I don't really give a shit. Yeah, it's like it's apathy. Yeah, it's not OK. It wasn't a staunch like, you know, like, no, I don't believe that you can believe what you want to believe.

1:06:35 To the doctor, but she's my daughter too. Absolutely like not to understand up to that just absolutely makes you so culpable, so incredibly wrong. Absolutely. What a fucking Dick. So basically, I think Jason and Brendan were charged with murder. Yeah. And so Kerry the mum. Yeah, Zachary, the brother, the eldest brother, all of the Stevens children who were living at home and were members of the church. Yep, Lachlan and Samantha Showenfish and Kita Martin were all charged with manslaughter. 14 people in total were charged in relation to the murder of Elizabeth.

1:07:22 Fucking job. I haven't looked it up. I should have. Has there ever been that many people in Australia charged with the same leader? I don't believe. Crazy like, I mean, not as in like, that's just that's. Great. Like, you know, thank God they went that far. Absolutely. I mean, I don't think they went fair enough in the end, but. Well, no, I agree with that, but at least, I guess at least we got. We got somewhere. Yep. So in the end that it ended up being a judge only trial because this had received so much media.

1:07:54 I'm talking not only in a within Australia but internationally. It was a massive news story. Of course it was. It is. Fucking I don't know that it was big enough to be honest. I really honest, I feel like it wasn't big enough. You know what? I think you're right. Because the reason being the name Elizabeth Strews wasn't instantly recognisable to me. I knew the case and I knew the story. Her name wasn't in my. Head No, no, I don't. I think you're absolutely right. I feel like maybe if you lived in the in Queensland, yes, it was probably much more heavily played there.

1:08:31 I feel like being out of the state, which that's that shouldn't this case should have moved across state lines. It should have been more, it should have been bigger because this is there is so much and we'll get into it in terms of what was wrong in this situation. That has to be, and I'm not saying should be, it has to be fixed. We cannot allow as a society this to ever happen to a child ever again anywhere in Australia, anyone in the world. It is not OK. There were people who let her down as well as her parents.

1:09:08 It's so wrong. But we'll get to it. We'll let's so in terms of the the trial itself, was it I can oh, shit show. Fucking shit show because they chose to represent themselves well first of all. But they also, like, chose to run the trial. Yeah, all 14 of them, Yeah, at once, which that I don't know has ever happened before. No, not that big. A. They had to rearrange the courtroom to fit them all behind the right desk. Yeah, they give. You all desks and it meant that there wasn't a huge amount of public space, but because there was interest in this case, they had sort of overflow rooms and stuff for people to be able to bear witness to this.

1:09:45 But they didn't want legal representation. They refused to enter a plea. So the judge had to enter a plea on their behalf. And he obviously entered a plea of not guilty. Yeah. So the trial has proceeded and Brendan basically represent them. All they no, they each represented themselves. Well, technically, but I think he was the main spokesperson. Each one of them would take on took on like appoint person for various people that were. So the prosecution brought in witnesses and you know, that's something so that when but when it came to the defense putting their case to the judge, they didn't.

1:10:24 So but they would cross examine witnesses that were on the stand that the prosecution put up there, which was part of it was their family members and stuff, you know, like, but they each had a moment where they were point person and they would go and cross examine these people. I don't think that's right either, because I don't think that you should be like cross examining. Like at one point I think Jade, I think Jade sat on the stand. Yeah, she did. And like her mum or dad cross examined her, I don't think that that's appropriate.

1:10:53 And I think Brendan did with her as well. Oh, that would have been so difficult. Well, she, she actually got up and said this is the most difficult thing I've ever had to do. Yes, of course, of course. I mean on so many levels. It's just, I don't think that that's right, that that should be allowed, but. So yeah, it was a judge only trial, yeah, because they wouldn't have been able to have been an unbiased jury. Yeah, selection process. So which yes, I think that's a probably a really good call.

1:11:20 Yeah, but only that because of what kind of AI. Just think that it had to be in this situation because they made a mockery of the entire court system that the 14 of them. So they would have like these family members would come on the stand and then the prosecution would be like, you know, asking them questions. And they would sticker and laugh and just talk amongst themselves as if they were, you know, in their home doing their fucking church thing in the middle of the court. The the amount of times the judge had to stop them and tell them to stop speaking.

1:11:50 And it just was an absolute circus. It was a circus. And you're right. They would laugh. So somebody would say, you know, that, for example, they had a medical professional testifying about Elizabeth's condition. And he basically said there there was no other outcome here. She was always going to die. And they laughed. Yeah. It's. Just disgusting. It's. Absolutely disgusting. Revolting. They believe that she's not dead. Like I can't, I can't. I actually can't. This is the and this is where I really just get the Oh my God, I can't even Yeah, they so Jason ended up being sentenced to 14 1/2 years because he actually he got 13, but they added on his actual his conviction.

1:12:34 He got 14 years, but they added on the six months suspended sentence from the 2019 case, as it should be because he obviously they're connected. So he, they were able to basically say, yeah, you've now got to serve that. But he wasn't along with Brendan, who were both charged with murder, they downgraded that to manslaughter. Now this gets me that the judge basically decided that they didn't believe that she would die from this, therefore it's manslaughter, which I understand that's what they I'm going to put inverted commas believe.

1:13:17 But if sane person would not, you can't actually convince me that these people really believe this shit. I don't. Know I can't either because we don't. I can't imagine having such extremist views. Our court system has to be based on common sense, yeah. And and that's. Exactly, and I think that common sense told you that she would die from this for. Sure. And Jason, if no one else, Jason knew that. Exactly. Exactly. He murdered her. Yeah, he murdered her. He knew everything about her condition, her dosing.

1:13:53 Like Kerry never, never gave her insulin once. No, Jason took full responsibility for that. And therefore, I think, I mean, I can't even believe her mother didn't even ever administer a dose of insulin to her diabetic daughter. But the. Fact that in that 2019. That responsibility, yeah. And he fucking failed at it. Yeah. He murdered her, yeah. He admitted with that in that 2019 that he knew that's what the outcome could have been. What's the difference? He. Even said I will never let this happen again.

1:14:23 Yeah, he knew what would happen if if, if they did this again, he knew she would die. Yeah. So to me, that's not manslaughter. No, that's murder with intent. Absolutely, absolutely. So look, I think the sentence that they got would bare minimum, but it at least it was it was it wasn't nothing. Yeah, Kerry was also charged with manslaughter. Convicted of manslaughter. Sorry. Yeah, she ended up serving a bit over well, sentenced to a bit over 14 years because she then had a 15, actually 15. Is it because they added on the rest of her sentence as well that she didn't serve?

1:15:01 Yeah, Brendan received 13 years, and then we've got Loretta, Mary Stevens, nine years. Zachary, the other son of the stories was given six years. Samantha Showenfish was given six years. Alexander Stevens, Sebastian Stevens, Andrea Stevens, Acacia Stevens, Camilla Stevens, Therese Stevens, Kita Martin and Lachlan Showenfish were all given seven years. And they, they can all, they could all go for parole have after having served 80% of their serve of their sentences. Now apparently the word is that none of them intend to do that, which great, OK.

1:15:48 But their reason for that is because they will not admit that, that, that they've done anything wrong. So they, they are so staunch that have they have come out and said that they, they will serve every bit because it's all God's plan. They are in prison right now and they're in together as in like males and females separate. But all the females from this cold are together and all the men are together and they probably they are still, they are actively participating in this religion to this day and all still believe that Elizabeth will rise from the dead because she's not dead.

1:16:32 She's sleeping. Yeah, but she's dead. Yep, she's dead. Because of you. She's not coming back. Yeah. She lost what could have been an incredible life. I know that she had spoken to a school teacher of hers and said that she wanted to be a doctor when she grew up because she wanted to help other kids like her with diabetes. Which is outright absolutely puts a kibosh on Brendan's theory that she wanted this, because why would she say she wants to help other children and be a doctor if she doesn't want help?

1:17:09 For sure. And wants this. Yeah, it's, it's absolute. It's a farce. It's absolute bullshit. Yeah, she's an 8 year old. Yeah, with. Dreams of doing, of helping others. She loved Elizabeth, loved riding her bike, she loved the color pink and purple. Dora the Explorer, what a you know, she was such her smile, like she was just a really gorgeous. Little gorgeous kid, love and life and you. Just can't believe that she had to suffer in her 8 short years so much when she didn't have to. As I said, diabetes, type 1 diabetes is so treatable and so well managed and well, you know, it's, I'm not saying it's easy.

1:17:53 No, it's not easy, no, but it is manageable.

1:17:59 She's been her life has been stolen. Absolutely. And like, Jade is amazing and she has taken on the other siblings. Yeah. And I mean, that would be huge because she would have to. I hope she's getting help in this position. Of life, she's got a lot. Of she's got a lot of support, but I mean, even just it's psychological support for those children because one, they've lost their sister and for any child, you know, having a lost a sibling, that's, that is not easy to go through in the circumstances that they've gone through.

1:18:28 But also then the layer of their own indoctrination into this that needs to be undone, that needs to be all be undone and they need to be unbrainwashed. So that's, that's huge to just manage all of that with these. And they're not young in that, you know, the, they're all minors at this point, but they're not some of them, but they're they're old enough to have their own opinions on things. And, you know, so that would be very difficult, I think, and a big challenge to take on. But Jade has also caused or also raised a civil suit against the the basic child protection because they let this family down.

1:19:09 They let Elizabeth down. It. Didn't they? They really, really did. And it, there has to be changes in the system. It is not good enough to have a system that does not pick up on these major things like someone exiting from prison on parole. And that that doesn't flag a, a check in of minor sorts that could say that things were not good. That, that's, that's exactly where the, I mean, the other pit point that, you know, really struck out to me of like another intervention point was literally the Thursday before she passed, which I think she passed on the Saturday, on the that Thursday, Kerry had a parole visit due and Kerry just rang in and said I'm not well.

1:19:53 I'm not feeling good. I'm not coming in. So like, yeah, cool. Number. What the fuck that that's a well that will come to you. Yeah. And that because that household needed eyes on it. For sure. I just oh. It's the system. The systematic failures in this case, yeah, are huge. And as you said, it need that, that this can't happen again. No, it cannot happen again. But unless I questioned. Too that OK, Elizabeth wouldn't have been at school. Oh, it was school holidays. School. Holidays. It was school holidays.

1:20:30 OK, all right, yeah, that isn't prior to that. There has to have been prior to that that though even there was the, the months building up of mum being sent to jail, right School have got to be on a bit alert of like what's going on here because we know what's happened in the past. Surely they knew what had happened in the past. I, I I don't. Know there are systems that allow that. They would know, OK. And if they weren't, then again, it's not the failing of the system because there are avenues for that school of knowing whether she had moved schools or not.

1:20:57 There are literal web sites that you log into and see this stuff and get flags for it. Yeah, you that that so they can't claim that they didn't know stuff. That's on them as well. Then why weren't they flagging things of like, hey, she's not, I don't know, not looking well towards the end of term and their mum's coming out of jail. Like what the fuck? Yeah, look, I, I can't even, I can't even. The fact that for me, it's the fact that child protection didn't check. Like they didn't know that Brendan had been sorry that Jason had been baptized into the religion because they hadn't been out there to see it.

1:21:40 They didn't know that there was a change. That's a massive change in circumstance. People in his workplace and stuff were saying he's really not in a good place. Yep. It just frustrates me that there are literally not.

1:21:55 I'm pretty sure this is nationwide, not just Victoria, but there's, you know, there are systems that allow communication between various departments and why that wasn't being utilized just is beyond me that these people should have, there should have been parts of her life all communicating so that this was avoided. Look, an inquest has been announced, but a date hasn't been set yet. Yeah. So look, it's a good thing that they're going down that path. The fact they haven't set a date yet, I think is disgusting.

1:22:30 Yeah, this is a priority. This has to be a priority. So I guess watch this space. If there is an update, we'll bring it in a future episode. Yeah, Oh, 'cause unfortunately there are many of these like little cults operating in in Australia around the world, and we don't know about them. I know Toowoomba is known for a little bit of like some quaking that's like, you know, kind of thing. But yes, there are pockets where this is more likely than, you know, in our suburbia kind of thing. But they're definitely around.

1:22:54 And so it's got to be more eyes on this. Stuff, yeah. And and that's what this inquest needs to investigate, how they do it, what they do with it. Yeah, I understand people are have a right to do their own thing and that's that stuff. But where it puts people in danger, that's right. I mean, the minute that there's a, there's a religion that states that they don't believe in medical intervention, that has got to red flag where there's children involved. I mean, again, if you're an adult and you make that decision, that's kind of a bit of a bit of a on you.

1:23:23 Again, I don't like it, but what are you gonna do? But when there's minors who can't have that make that decision for themselves for sure. No, that's, that's, that is not even OK for a parent to make that decision of that child. Like, no, of course not. We not, we do better because we we I mean, I get it that the Bible's written in they they pick, I just like cherry pick out of the Bible because. Yeah, the Bible doesn't talk about using medical intervention because it wasn't invented yet, you know, like we've moved with the time.

1:23:50 Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe maybe if Jesus was around, maybe he would go. Hey, yeah, Insulin's cool, dude. Yeah. Take insulin. I don't like, you know, Yeah. Come on. Yeah, yeah. When we know better, we do better. Yeah, that well, that, that's exactly right. We've got these resources, We've got hospitals, we have the most, the best medical, you know, staff, we've got nurses and we've got science. Yeah. Hey, what? Sorry. What? You know, people who actually give a shit and want the best for, you know, the best outcomes for especially children like you think how hard people work to make sure kids are OK.

1:24:26 Yeah. And in this instance, everyone's failed her. Yeah. It's, it's just, I mean, there were people who tried along the way, but, you know, we're bound by certain where, you know, there was nowhere else for them to go. But yeah, this outcome is disgusting. I think I can't, I actually can't believe that it happened in the country that we live. In I think it's. Disgusting. And it's, it's I it, as you said, it has to change. Yeah, it really does. I. Just I just also wanted to mention, yeah, Lachlan and Samantha Shawn Fish, they had two children.

1:25:03 Yeah. They have said that they don't ever want to see their children again. Their children have are being raised between Samantha's parents and Lachlan's parents. I mean, I mean, two minds about that. I think it's better for their children. And but for their children for sure. But can you? Can you actually? How do you do? How? I don't know. OK. One way to make yourself an absolute piece of shit. Yeah. Like. How? How? How? Do you just go? Nothing done like again, that's where. I just can't come at this as being a religion.

1:25:40 Where are your core values and beliefs? Like really centered here. Community and all of that sort of stuff which. Is. What is their outcome of that? It's like they've taken, I'm like you. I don't believe in God. I'm not a religious person, but I can see value in some of the beliefs of and some of the values of certain faiths and community, kindness, family, being together. Yeah, all of that. They fucked that all off. Yeah, they. Literally removed all that stuff that you can go, yeah, that's. Nice.

1:26:18 Yeah, and have just picked. The crap. The crap and run and run with it to the OH. Yeah, extreme is the only way the. Worst word that just social and nature extremism. Yeah. Oh, I just. I just can't. I just can't. This poor little girl. It's just shit, yeah. Did you have anything else you wanted to add? I don't think so. Just that, oh, I mean, go Jade. I really am impressed with her and she's amazing. And yeah, stick, stick at it. Yeah, You're doing the right thing and you're just incredible. Yeah.

1:26:51 She she is amazing, yeah. And thank God those other kids have her. Oh, they're very lucky. And I hope that they, they know that. I hope they see that. Because she, yeah, Jade is. Yeah. Hero. Yeah. Yeah. All right, let's leave that one there for sure. Next week we're actually, this is on a completely different plane. Thank God. Yeah, but next week we're actually bringing you the Lawyer X case at Nicola Gobbo. Oh, this is a, Oh yeah, spicy one. So stay tuned for that. And thank you again for joining us for another week.

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