Episode 67 - Elizabeth Struhs & The Saints Cult

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties for another episode.

0:18 Here we are again. Another week, another Friday.

0:20 I feel like they're coming around very quickly at this end

0:23 of the year body. Oh, that's actually quite scary.

0:25 I was talking. To one of the mums at basketball

0:27 training last night. And she was like, you know, my

0:29 grandma used to say that as you get older, the years go faster.

0:33 And she thought, no, you know, it's the same number of hours,

0:35 the same number of days. But my God, do the years go

0:38 fast? Oh, it's crazy.

0:41 It was. It's January, right?

0:43 Yeah. I, I feel like May to October,

0:46 yeah, just disappeared. I don't even know where it went,

0:49 No. I honestly don't know.

0:51 Yeah. No, I don't know how we're here.

0:53 I really don't on the train, the bullet train of like, I don't

0:58 know. Yeah, Towards the end of the

0:59 year. I actually heard an ad the other

1:01 day for Black Friday sales and I'm like, hold on.

1:05 Wait, what? That's when I normally do all my

1:07 Christmas. Show that's on its way that's

1:09 not far away I'm. Gonna have to really start

1:11 thinking about all this. I was literally saying to my

1:13 kids the other day, like, I've never been into Halloween, but I

1:16 actually like Halloween at the moment.

1:18 I've never liked it really. But no, I'm down for it because

1:21 I feel like that, like it's like a holding place before we can

1:24 actually go, Oh my God, wait, it's nearly Christmas until I

1:27 can get to there, then it's I don't have.

1:30 To think, one week away, fuck off, or by the time this comes

1:33 out it's only a few days away, a few.

1:34 Days away. Yeah, it's just Friday, isn't

1:35 it? Oh, Yep, Yep, Yep.

1:38 Just mental it is, absolutely. Is that literally a sign we

1:41 drive past on our way to school every morning?

1:42 They stupidly assholes keep putting on it like you know, 10

1:45 weeks till Christmas. My my kids have to read it every

1:50 time we drive past. Oh yeah, do they have anything

1:53 on their list yet? Oh, my kids have got stuff on

1:55 their list. Yeah, yeah.

1:58 I feel like some years, like it's really hard.

2:01 This year I feel like I'm like just, Oh my God, we're gonna.

2:04 Have to pair it back. Pair it back.

2:06 Yeah, like, yeah, save some for the birthday.

2:07 List yeah and I love hearing other people's Christmas

2:11 traditions of how they do gifts and things like because everyone

2:15 is so different and each to their own on how you choose to

2:17 do it. I'm I'm, but I'm fascinated on

2:19 how, you know, like, I don't know, just I saw my parent last

2:22 night and how they, she does like that's three gifts from

2:25 Santa and then one gift from them.

2:27 Yeah, you know, and that sort of thing.

2:29 Whereas I feel like I don't know, there's too much fucking

2:31 wrapping in my house and I need to pair it back.

2:34 And, you know, not that I probably, I mean, not saying I

2:35 spend more or less to that place, it does that, but or any

2:38 of those sorts of things. It's just so interesting hearing

2:41 how various people deal with it because I just feel like it's

2:44 just too much. Yeah, it's the kids get so much

2:47 and you know, I feel like last year I feel the same as you.

2:49 We were scratching our heads almost, which is ridiculous as

2:53 to what to get the kids, whereas this year they both kind of are

2:57 due for things. That they might need like Lucas

2:59 Lucas. Actually needs a new bike, yeah.

3:03 Or we'll do in the next sort of maybe few months, yeah, yeah.

3:06 So I think that that's a good one, yes.

3:10 In terms of what they want, I'm like, Oh my God, it's just crap.

3:14 Oh well, my kids don't want crap.

3:16 There's Brody particularly wants really bloody expensive.

3:19 Oh. Yeah, it's either.

3:21 Well, Lucas is number one thing. An iPad mini.

3:23 I'm like, you're not getting a freaking iPad mini.

3:26 Brody wants a full gaming computer.

3:28 Oh yeah, Actually, he, you know what he was, he was trying to

3:31 get me on board the other day. I'm sure he would.

3:33 Yeah. Like I'll get he's like Emma and

3:34 she'll get to Mark. He's.

3:36 Like do you think like a a computer with a screen or a

3:40 laptop would be better? I'm like, you probably need to

3:42 talk to Peter about that Do. You know how many times he's

3:45 asked me? Have you spoken to Peter yet?

3:46 You spoke to Peter yet? But Peter wasn't home, so yeah,

3:50 he would. He would have been.

3:51 Disappointed. He would have been absolutely

3:53 hankering to get to Peter and get get to direct to the source.

3:56 Basically that's. Right.

3:57 And if Peter says it's right, then that's what we have to do.

4:00 Oh God. Actually, you're gonna have to

4:01 word Peter up before he gets to Peter. 1st, I know, I actually

4:04 have just realized this myself. I need to speak to Peter.

4:07 You're. Just like really.

4:08 Pair back, yeah. Yeah.

4:09 Like, yeah, really minimal specs is what is required on this

4:12 computer, Yeah. Yeah, I mean seriously, what's

4:15 an 8 year old gonna do? On a computer that needs to be

4:17 hyped out need anything like and I look as a family, yeah, we

4:21 could do with a home computer. Sure.

4:23 So I'm I'm not anti it entirely and that it is something as

4:26 they're getting older that they do need and because I really

4:28 don't want them using my work computer and things like that

4:31 that we that's something I'm happy to invest in yeah as a

4:34 family. It's not Brodies.

4:36 But Can you imagine having that conversation?

4:38 I have had that with him. I said otherwise.

4:40 That's not what came the other days.

4:42 Oh, you're. Kidding me?

4:43 Oh, we're going back again. Are.

4:44 We right. I might revisit that one if I

4:46 were you. I thought we were really

4:49 actually, because he was. I'd said to him originally this

4:52 is an expensive gift. This means there is nothing

4:54 else. Yeah.

4:54 Potentially nothing for your birthday either, mate.

4:56 Yeah. And.

4:57 And I'm talking potentially even from Grandma.

4:59 Yeah. And Grandpa, you know, like.

5:00 Get all your money people to give you money, not.

5:02 This is a huge thing. And I was trying to like, you

5:05 know, get him like to pull back of it and he's like, and he

5:07 because I know what he's like, he wants everything.

5:10 So he was like, oh, but that means, oh, but I can't have this

5:13 and I can't have that. And I said, well, in in that

5:15 case, you need to talk to Mason. You need to talk to me and get

5:18 us on board with having a computer in the house.

5:20 You know, like so he'd actually done that and had that

5:23 conversation with Mason and was he was actually like, yeah, no,

5:25 that's OK, I can come at that. OK, so.

5:28 Maybe he'd forgotten, or maybe I spoke to him before you'd had

5:30 that conversation with him. That's so funny.

5:36 Oh God, he's a. Shit, yeah.

5:38 He's so funny. He's so, so funny.

5:40 Love him. Oh my God, yeah.

5:42 Yeah, yeah. Actually, what we're doing this

5:44 weekend. Oh, yes, yes.

5:46 Getting his ears pierced. Yes, that is the most exciting.

5:50 He's so excited so. Has he decided?

5:52 Has he decided what he's doing? Yep, Yep.

5:55 What's he going for? He's.

5:56 Getting one in each year. Yep, and he wants gold and

5:58 diamonds. Oh my God bless that child, that

6:02 is the best. Oh, Bougie has Oh.

6:04 Expect nothing like that. Well, I did say to him we might

6:06 be more of a cubic zirconia family, but that's OK.

6:09 I. I'm pretty sure at the place

6:11 where you're going, yeah, that's, that's about the limit

6:13 of it. But they do have prop like I got

6:15 my thirds pierced there and my Helix pierced at that place.

6:18 Yeah, they're, they're gold. Yeah, yeah.

6:20 Cubic zirconia is in them. Yeah, yeah.

6:23 Oh, look, yeah. I mean, I've got a pair of like

6:24 little diamond studs that he put up to the ear to like, go does

6:28 it, How does it look, you know, and.

6:29 And he was like, oh, can I wear these?

6:31 And like, no, not now, but maybe at a point when you're ready

6:35 that that's something you can maybe pop in Cause I've got

6:38 actually I've got them on today is his little ones that he got

6:41 me for Christmas a few years back when he was beautiful mad

6:43 spider man boy and their little spider man earrings that I think

6:48 I'm from Pandora, like, you know, and he spotted them and

6:50 he's like mum and he wanted to buy them for me for Christmas.

6:52 Oh, that was so. Gorgeous.

6:53 I think he was in. Kinder at the time, it was so

6:56 sweet. Absolutely.

6:57 Like though, but you have to have them.

6:58 Yeah, I want you to wear them. So I do every now and then pop

7:01 them in and he's and he's very much obsessed with them at the

7:04 moment saying like, you know, I'll be able to wear them and

7:06 I'm like, yes, and he'll be able to wear these eventually.

7:08 I think maybe pop into his head as well because I think they

7:11 said to me with these I can't change them for like 6 months or

7:15 something. It's a long time.

7:16 I thought it was like 6 weeks. No, I think it's like it's lots

7:19 of months. Oh, wow.

7:20 So telling me has to be like pretty sure about the one she

7:23 chooses. Yeah, because.

7:24 He's actually also spotted what he wants from.

7:27 Etsy, yes. It's a pair of earrings that are

7:30 axolotls. I thought you're going to say

7:33 basketballs because I've seen some cool basketballs.

7:36 Same. Same.

7:37 No, no, Axel. Fuck, maybe.

7:39 Kyle Buddy earrings. Kyle earrings.

7:41 Yeah, well, if you can't take him with him, at least you can

7:44 wear him. Can you take?

7:49 Him. With him.

7:49 Imagine that in your car or like in the school bag or so.

7:55 Yuck. The sliminess.

7:57 Gross. He's so great.

7:59 He's such a little. Freak yuck.

8:02 Yuck, yuck. We don't really have a lot on

8:05 this weekend. We've just got like sports.

8:06 Tomorrow night I'm babysitting my nephews because my my mum and

8:10 dad and my brother and sister-in-law are going to my

8:14 sister in law's parents 50th wedding anniversary.

8:17 Oh wow, isn't that impressive? Yeah, so looking after my

8:21 nephews. I'm really looking forward to

8:22 that. Yeah.

8:23 And then on Sunday I've just like blocked out the entire day

8:26 to clean the house, like to just reset.

8:29 We've got a hard rubbish next week so I'm just gonna put there

8:34 is so much shit down the side of my house that day.

8:36 Might be bringing some shit to your place please.

8:38 Do you're more than welcome to bring it on Sunday.

8:40 I love it. And we're just gonna just spring

8:43 clean this house. Yeah, right.

8:45 I'm done. I so need that too.

8:46 Oh yeah. Can't wait for.

8:48 It oh, my garden. Oh my God, I need to attack it.

8:51 Yeah, really need that Spring just.

8:53 I was gonna clean up. Yeah, this time of year is shit

8:56 for the garden. Everything grows, including all

8:58 the weeds and all the shit you don't wanna grow.

9:00 Literally like within a few weeks it is just like.

9:03 It just takes absolutely weather to turn a bit, yeah, Bit of wet,

9:06 bit of warmth and everything bloody all of a.

9:08 Sudden Oh yes, yeah, it's dreadful.

9:11 It's. Bullshit, but we haven't even

9:12 had that much good spring weather.

9:14 No. Oh well, the wind.

9:15 Holy crap. Yeah, that was bad.

9:17 It was awful. Yeah.

9:18 Yeah. Anyway, we have I've got a few

9:21 shout outs for. Yeah, yes, we've had some great

9:24 stuff coming through this. We really have.

9:25 We've had so many comments on the socials and that kind of

9:28 thing. So please keep that up, guys.

9:29 We love it. Absolutely.

9:31 We've had some really lovely comments from Jackie J Gibson,

9:34 Haley and Smudgy. We have two new patreons.

9:38 We've got Cara Lane and Harriet rappel.

9:41 Yep, and then we've had a buy me a coffee.

9:43 I actually can't remember whether I shouted these guys out

9:46 last week or not. I think so M&T felon who have,

9:50 you know, gorgeous, really gorgeous comment and and a very

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9:59 We also love it when people just word of mouth let other people

10:03 know to listen to us. We've had a few comments come

10:05 through this in the last few weeks actually, yes, saying, oh,

10:08 someone recommended this to me or it came up and my suggested

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10:16 If you like us, please recommend us to somebody who you think

10:19 might like to listen as well. Yeah.

10:21 Very, very helpful. Love it.

10:22 Oh, it's just growing and it's great.

10:24 It's great. Love it.

10:25 It's so great. Now, I think before we get into

10:29 today's case, we probably need to have a bit of a warning.

10:32 Yeah, because today's episode, although all of our episodes are

10:36 very heavy, today's episode deals with the murder and death

10:42 of a young girl, an 8 year old girl.

10:45 It also deals with religion and cults.

10:49 And it's just something that if that's not really for you or

10:52 something you don't feel that you can listen to, please move

10:55 on. Like today might not be one for

10:57 you because I know we just we're chatting before we hit record.

11:00 Yeah, this has been a really hard one to research.

11:04 I think the frustration of it for me has really gotten to me.

11:08 Same. And yeah, you were saying

11:10 exactly the same thing. So, oh, we get it.

11:13 It's a, it's a really hard one, but I really strongly feel that

11:16 we need to put this case out a bit more and, and make sure that

11:19 Elizabeth's. So we're speaking today about

11:22 Elizabeth Struze, the death of Elizabeth Struze.

11:25 And I think we need to keep her legacy going.

11:28 I know her older sister wants that.

11:30 Yeah. And so, yeah, we're that's kind

11:33 of the reason we decided to bring this case to everybody.

11:35 Definitely, yeah, this is it's there's a lot of things that

11:39 still need to occur for this case to make change for the

11:42 future. So yeah.

11:44 So, yeah, because there's so many failures, like systematic

11:46 failures, and then also failures in terms of parental, you know,

11:52 management and all of that. So, yeah.

11:55 Elizabeth Strews was born in 2013 in Toowoomba, which is in

12:01 the Darling Downs region of Queensland.

12:04 It's a really beautiful area. Yeah.

12:06 Inland. So, you know, you think of

12:08 Queensland, you think beach coastal, but this is slightly

12:11 inland. It doesn't have a massive

12:13 population, but it certainly has a very solid population.

12:17 And everything is there, that it's a city that's known for

12:20 like, cathedrals, and there's a rainforest not very far away.

12:25 And it's just a really beautiful part of Australia.

12:28 Absolutely. And Elizabeth, well, Elizabeth

12:33 was born to parents Jason and Kerry Strews.

12:37 They were married for I think it was about 17 or 18 years.

12:43 Actually, no, it was about 20 years at the time of Elizabeth's

12:46 death. Yes, yeah.

12:48 And. I think that could be maybe even

12:50 that could have been 25. Was it OK, So it was.

12:52 It was a long time. Yeah.

12:54 At the beginning of their relationship, they were members

13:00 of a Church of a Pentecostal church.

13:02 Yeah. By happy clappers.

13:04 Happy clappers? That's exactly right.

13:07 You know, they're, they're, yeah, you know, singing and and

13:09 all of that sort of stuff. Gospel ish almost like group

13:12 that yeah, very it's AI reckon quite fun kind of style of

13:17 religion. Not your mainstream sort of

13:18 Catholic, you know, serious, but maybe a little more.

13:22 Yeah, fun and jovial, and Jason was into it.

13:28 Not as into it as Kerry. I think he.

13:30 He's the words that he would use is that he didn't believe in

13:32 God. Yeah, yeah, at that time.

13:34 But he wanted to support his wife.

13:36 Yeah, which I find that really interesting.

13:39 In terms of their relationship, they only mean very long term

13:42 marriage and like I guess you don't get to that point in a

13:46 marriage without it being a very strong relationship.

13:48 Absolutely. But to me, religion is a very

13:51 basic moral values kind of stuff that interesting that you've

13:56 built this life with somebody, somebody that you have quite

13:59 opposing views on, and opposing is probably a little too strong

14:02 for it. He had no opinion on.

14:04 What it was? I think and she had a very, but

14:07 I think that's enough in religious For a religious belief

14:11 between two people to not believe the same thing in a

14:14 religion is pretty big deal in a relationship.

14:16 It definitely caused conflict between them and we'll get,

14:20 I'll, I'll explain a little bit more about that as we kind of go

14:23 down the line. But Jason and Kerry, like Kerry,

14:27 as we said they had in the end, in all told, they had eight

14:31 children. Yeah, their eldest was born when

14:35 they were part of this Pentecost.

14:37 Their eldest three children I believe were born well they were

14:41 members of this Pentecostal church and they did everything

14:45 that Christians do. They celebrated Christmas and

14:47 Easter. They it was a very festive type

14:51 of life that they lived in. As you said, the happy clappers.

14:54 Every Sunday they go to church and and they were very community

14:58 minded as well. Then Carrie met a man by the

15:04 name of Brendan. I've just had a Stevens.

15:07 Thank you. Oh my God I can't believe I just

15:09 had a mental. Blank.

15:11 By the name of Brendan Stevens at school.

15:13 So they met at a school gate and were having a bit of a chat and

15:17 they really started talking more and more about religion.

15:22 Yeah. And Brendan had been to the

15:24 Pentecostal church that Kerry was a member of, and he got to a

15:30 point there where he wanted to become a pastor.

15:33 Yeah, he was part of the fellowship, what they call.

15:35 So I guess that's a part of like, you know, that almost

15:37 training and he would be, he would give speeches at places

15:42 and. Yeah.

15:43 Yeah, yeah. But the church, the Pentecostal

15:46 church, basically said to him at the end of this training or at

15:49 the end of this fellowship that he actually wasn't going to

15:53 become a pastor. No, they, well, they actually

15:55 said to him like you need to leave.

15:56 Yeah, his views were far too extreme.

15:59 Yeah. And it wasn't aligning with

16:01 their beliefs and what they felt was the word of the Lord.

16:05 And so he left and I'm sure was pushed out because.

16:10 You know that he gave, he gave a speech, I think it was actually

16:13 in Brisbane. He went to something as part of

16:16 his fellowship. He went to Brisbane and he gave

16:18 some speech. And when he returned they said

16:21 to him basically, yeah, to extremists.

16:24 But not only that, he was actually within that speech.

16:26 He was speaking negatively of the church and saying they were

16:30 wrong. And so they were really the

16:32 pastors were saying, well, I don't think what we align.

16:36 If you think that we're wrong, why do you want to be a pastor?

16:39 Yeah, like, so it was, it was a bit interesting.

16:42 They were very they were questioning him on that of like,

16:44 we don't understand where you're heading here.

16:46 If you think we're wrong, What why do you want to be part of

16:49 this? So we think that it's best that

16:50 you, you don't because we won't be putting you in a position of

16:53 any further because you clearly don't have the same beliefs that

16:56 we we do. Yeah.

16:58 So what does he decide to do? He decides to create his own.

17:01 Yeah, religion, I guess. We said to them, I'm going to go

17:04 out and I'm going to. Do my own my own thing.

17:06 So he started an at home church. Oh my God, I mean that in and of

17:10 itself Jesus. But Kerry didn't know a huge

17:14 amount of people with this. This gets me a bit.

17:16 Does this get you a bit? Because the story is that Kerry

17:21 didn't really know that many people at the church all that

17:24 well. And so Brendan very easily

17:27 convinced her to come over to his new church.

17:30 And in that look, I feel maybe her beliefs were at that extreme

17:35 end anyway. And was she was very, I mean, as

17:38 these things happen, these this was a cult at the end of the

17:41 day. Ohh.

17:42 Absolutely, It's called. What it is?

17:43 Yeah. Acceptable people, yeah, will

17:45 fall prey to people like Brendan Stevens.

17:49 And I think Kerry was just in that exact right sort of time in

17:53 her life where and had probably developed some of these views on

17:57 her own anyway, and it was just then taken to the extreme by her

18:01 then following Brendan to his. What they called themselves was

18:04 the Saints. Yes, so he would hold.

18:07 I believe that they were Saints walking on earth.

18:13 He would hold church services in his home.

18:16 They prayed everyday. This became so extreme that they

18:25 basically shut out the outside world.

18:28 Aside from the fact that they all did have jobs, Yes.

18:32 So. And very normal jobs.

18:35 So Jason Struze was a Baker, and I actually don't know what Kerry

18:40 did for work. I think she was stay at home

18:43 mom. She was stay at home mom.

18:44 I think she'd been a teacher, maybe Brian.

18:46 She had been a teacher, yeah, but that was, that was, I think

18:49 maybe before she had. Before she had children, I

18:51 think, but then, yeah, she was stay at home mom.

18:53 Yeah, at this point sort of thing, yeah.

18:54 Yeah. And so, you know, these are

18:57 people who are part of the community.

18:59 They're going out, you know, doing what needs to be done to

19:04 earn money. Part of what Brendan would have

19:06 them do is basically though go and they each week when they

19:11 would come to their Sunday service where they would pray

19:13 every day but on a Sunday, part of that sermon would be each

19:16 person explaining how they had attempted to bring someone else

19:22 to the church. They all had to have a minimum,

19:24 one person that they had attempted to bring, if not

19:28 brought along with them on a Sunday.

19:30 Yeah. And they all had to tell their

19:32 story of how they had interacted with someone.

19:35 This was so this. I find this really interesting.

19:37 It was a very antisocial church in so many ways.

19:40 So much so. But this was a very strong

19:42 element of what Brendan would preach to them to do.

19:44 Don't. You think that, like if they

19:45 were Saints walking on Earth, they would have all found each

19:48 other? Like, why do you have to recruit

19:49 people? Yeah, but in in doing so,

19:52 they've holes in all this shit. Oh, there's so many, so, so

19:55 many. But in doing all of this shit,

19:58 people would come like, because I guess, you know, if you've got

20:01 a work colleague who's like talking about this stuff, look,

20:03 maybe it's attracts people to go and go, oh, might go and see

20:07 what he's talking about. It sounds lovely.

20:08 Yeah, because they he talks about they talk about how they

20:11 sing and pray and it does your. Sound to that anyway, so I guess

20:16 if church and things are your thing and I know and there's

20:19 speaking to other people who I know who you are religious often

20:22 have said to me that as an adult you will often like sort of shop

20:26 around for a church because many of them, even though they might

20:29 be the same religion can have very different, you know, like

20:32 slightly different aspects to them that you know, definitely

20:36 align maybe more with you. Some of them might be more

20:38 social than others and things like that.

20:39 That depending on what you're looking for as an adult, often

20:43 they will shop around for churches.

20:44 So it's not uncommon for already a religious person to kind of

20:48 go, oh, OK, well, where I'm going, I'm not really getting

20:52 what I want to, you know, I'll come and check out what you've

20:54 got going on. So it wasn't unheard of.

20:56 What I find really interesting though is most people would only

20:59 ever attend one service and then be like maybe not.

21:03 But as much as that freaks like that's like, you know, yeah,

21:05 like people just walk like Oh my God, Oh no, not for me.

21:07 It flows me. Then the people that how they

21:10 help, quickly they would become indoctrinated.

21:13 Into this. So basically, Brendan Luke

21:17 Stevens was the leader. Yeah, right.

21:18 He was married to a woman by the name of Loretta Stevens.

21:23 And they had eight children as well.

21:25 Yeah. So they had Andrea Louise

21:29 Stevens, Occasionery Stevens, Camilia Claire Therese Maria

21:36 Sebastian James and Alexander Francis.

21:38 And they actually had one more daughter as well, an older

21:42 daughter who didn't, who sort of went away from the religion.

21:47 Right. She's not really spoken about at

21:50 all, which is completely fair. She's chosen to remove herself

21:52 from this. Yeah.

21:53 So we, we don't really need to talk about her.

21:56 No. But basically.

21:59 So they had this family of 7-8, the mum and their dad, they've

22:03 got the strews family on board. So Kerry and Jason actually had

22:08 in the end by the time Elizabeth was born.

22:11 So Elizabeth was their youngest daughter, born in 2013.

22:15 By the time she was born, they had eight children of their own.

22:19 Yeah. Their eldest being Jade and

22:22 their second eldest being Zachary.

22:24 So we don't know the names of the rest of the children, nor do

22:27 we need to. They were.

22:28 All minors at this point in time.

22:30 That's right. And they were all minors.

22:31 Yeah, that that's right at the time of this incident, yeah.

22:35 They also along the lines recruited into the Saints a girl

22:41 by the name of or a woman by the name of Kita Martin.

22:46 Now she was a friend of. Zachary Zachary's yes.

22:51 And yeah, she came into the church because Zachary recruited

22:55 her. I think she had a pretty not

22:57 great upbringing and was definitely at a bit of a loose

23:00 end and was looking for something.

23:03 Yeah. And found her place within this

23:05 cult. The one that this is the one

23:09 that really gets me. This is Lachlan and Samantha

23:12 Showenfish. So Cameron Show and Fish,

23:16 Lachlan's dad has been interviewed.

23:18 You can listen to interviews with him.

23:20 He's done interviews with the ABC, Channel 9 and.

23:25 Yeah, Current Affair. Thank you.

23:27 I knew it was like 60 minutes on Current Affair.

23:29 I couldn't remember which one. Yeah.

23:30 And he basically tells the story of how quickly Lachlan and Sam

23:37 were indoctrinated into this. So he this was around COVID

23:43 time, so 2020 or 2021 early. Actually I think it was early

23:47 2021, Lachlan had his first COVID vaccination and he rang to

23:53 tell his dad. I've had the first Pfizer vax

23:55 and, and his dad said to him, or just make sure you have the

23:58 booster in three weeks because you know, it's really important.

24:00 They're saying now this is what you might need to make sure you

24:03 do that. And he also in that

24:06 conversation, Lachlan also mentioned about how, you know,

24:09 there's people who don't even want this.

24:10 That's so stupid. Why wouldn't you get it?

24:12 You know, this is going to save lives and blah, blah, blah. 3

24:17 weeks later, Cameron calls Lachlan to make sure they've had

24:21 their boosters and Lachlan's like I am not putting that

24:24 poison into my body. His direct, his direct quote to

24:27 his dad was putting having this, having that vaccination will

24:33 damn your immortal soul. So in three weeks he's gone from

24:37 beings. Now another thing worth

24:39 mentioning, Lachlan was an engineer, Sam was a hairdresser.

24:45 They had a couple of children. Yep, and they were just hard and

24:50 fast indoctrinated into this. Real quick.

24:52 So you went from calling the these people he interacted with,

24:56 you know, it was weird to totally in it.

24:58 Yeah, so he worked with Acacia and Camellia Stevens.

25:01 They were office workers at the engineering firm that he, they

25:04 were admin staff at the engineering firm that he worked

25:07 at. So, yeah, he, he'd, he'd

25:11 mentioned them so many times previously, saying all these two

25:13 weird sisters that work at work and, you know, they, they dress

25:17 weird and they're, you know, they're really odd.

25:19 They're a bit odd, yeah. To sort of like within three

25:23 weeks. Yep.

25:25 And it got to the point where he shunned Lachlan and Sam shunned

25:29 their families. They didn't speak to their.

25:31 Now I'm talking close knit, beautiful, beautiful family.

25:34 Absolutely, I mean hearing Cameron speak is really

25:37 heartbreaking. The way he spoke speaks about

25:39 the fact of like literally from a conversation with him, you

25:42 know, that which which was their normal loving, you know, see you

25:45 later catch UPS catch with his next week, whatever sort of

25:48 conversation to literally the next conversation being like

25:52 you're wrong, dad. You have no, you know, you're

25:54 you need to, you know, hear the word of the God of of the Lord

25:57 and all these things like that. It was and they're a religious

26:00 family and this Cameron speaks of that very much so.

26:02 And like, you know, that we've always, you know, taught

26:04 religion to our children and being very much part of the

26:07 church. But I mean, and he says because

26:09 they were farmers as a family that he said, you know, we

26:12 didn't always get to church on a Sunday, but that was always our.

26:14 Aim had to house beaded milking. Yeah, there was stuff that

26:17 needed to be doing on the farm. We wouldn't get there, but

26:19 typically we were a religious family.

26:21 And, you know, so to go from that to this absolute extreme

26:24 of, like, every phone call with him just got worse and worse and

26:27 worse of how aggressive, you know, Lachlan became in terms of

26:32 how wrong his dad was, which made him, like, evil.

26:36 Yeah, it was. Oh, that's just horrible, Awful

26:39 to hear that out of your child's mouth.

26:41 Did. You think it was so sad as well

26:43 that in the he knew, as in Cameron knew a certain

26:47 conversation was probably gonna be the last one that he had with

26:50 Lachlan because he he knew he was pulling away and really

26:53 closing off. He tried to sort of, you know,

26:55 hold an intervention for him. Yeah, but he said he said to

26:58 Lachlan at the time. You know, Mum and I will always

27:01 love you when this blows up and it will blow up when something

27:04 happens or you feel you need to get out, you come to us because

27:07 we will help you. Always, always love you.

27:10 Yeah. You know that as a parent, like

27:12 that's just to know that's the conversation you're having with

27:15 your kid that. Oh God, it's so sad.

27:19 And I guess all you can do as a parent, I mean, not in that

27:21 point in time, not knowing what comes.

27:23 Yeah. Thinking to yourself, yeah, this

27:26 will blow up. We'll we'll get there to a point

27:29 where he comes back to us because this will blow up.

27:32 But to blow up how it did and how it, well, that's just yeah,

27:37 yeah, you couldn't predict that on.

27:39 Our Oh, not at all, no. In July of 2019, Elizabeth, so

27:46 she was aged 6 at the time. Elizabeth was getting sick and

27:54 her mum. So the beliefs of this cult of

27:58 the Saints was that so they were so extreme that they believed

28:05 that God heals, heals everything.

28:08 And so they shunned medical intervention.

28:11 They wouldn't even take a pan at all.

28:14 To the point of Brendan at one stage himself had a really

28:18 severe bike accident on on the road.

28:20 He was hit by a car, really, really badly injured, refused

28:24 all medical intervention, would not go to hospital.

28:26 And he needed to, apparently. He spent, I believe it was six

28:30 months. It was in bed.

28:32 Yep. Recovering from this.

28:33 He literally had, like, they had some.

28:35 Yeah, I think he had glue on his head, sticking his head.

28:40 Skull. Skull, back.

28:41 Back. Yeah.

28:42 In bed for six months. He had internal injuries.

28:45 They don't even know the extent of it because he wouldn't go to

28:47 hospital. And yeah, they basically patched

28:51 him up as best they could on the side of the road and he went

28:53 home. Yep.

28:57 He would have had broken. Bones.

28:58 He absolutely had broken bones. Like they don't know like.

29:01 Couldn't say which ones. But like he he kept telling

29:04 people I'm not going to hospital.

29:06 I, the Lord, will heal me. Well, yeah, like time heals all

29:10 wounds. Well, yeah, you know, that's the

29:12 same, but the same goes but he. Could have been in hospital and

29:15 out again and on crutches say or whatever.

29:17 And you know, he's, I don't know, a couple of months, three

29:18 months Max back to 100%. He was never no, this is but he

29:24 could have been if he'd gone into hospital, whereas instead

29:27 he spent six months bedridden and with lifelong probably, you

29:31 know, impact of what That's that that cause for him for sure.

29:35 What a Dick. What?

29:37 AI mean seriously? OK, well, if that's what you

29:39 want to do, you do that to yourself, that's your choice.

29:42 That's fine. As an adult.

29:43 As an adult, you do you do you? You know, if you believe that

29:47 and you want to suffer through that, I don't get it.

29:51 But that's your choice, right? Yeah.

29:54 In, as I said before, in July of 2019, when Elizabeth was only 6

29:59 years old, she started to get really, quite, really quite

30:03 sick. Now it got to a point where she

30:06 was actually essentially in a coma before Jason took her to

30:13 hospital. Now at the time, Jason was not a

30:16 member of the Church of the Saints.

30:19 He did not believe what they did, but he was still married to

30:22 Kerry. Now this is where I was going to

30:24 talk about their marriage a bit about their marriage because

30:27 Kerry says that at that point in their relationship, she was

30:32 ready to leave him. She could not believe that he

30:37 didn't believe. And that by him not believing

30:42 that was a direct, indirect defiance of everything about,

30:46 Yeah, basically her whole, her whole everything.

30:50 I wish she had gone. Yeah, fuck off.

30:53 Fuck. Off.

30:53 Sorry, just. Oh no, because I'm not gonna get

30:56 so angry. I can't.

30:57 I know. So Elizabeth, Jason takes

31:01 Elizabeth to Toowoomba Base Hospital, their local hospital.

31:04 She is literally, literally, according to the medical staff,

31:09 minutes from death. She apparently weighed what a

31:13 typical 3 year old weighs, 15 kilos.

31:16 Yeah, which is sorry. And she was 6/6.

31:19 So she was emaciated, she was malnourished.

31:22 She was in a coma. She was suffering and oh, big

31:25 time. So her pH, so the acidity of her

31:29 blood, her blood was so acidic at the time.

31:31 She was in diabetic ketoacidosis at the time.

31:33 Yeah. Her blood was so acidic that the

31:36 registrar, Toowoomba Base Hospital said that he has only

31:41 ever once seen blood that acidic again, and it was on an older

31:46 person. He said he couldn't believe that

31:49 she was still alive. She needed such specialist

31:53 management that they had to airlift her to the Royal

31:56 Children's Hospital in Brisbane. Yeah, and Jason went with her

32:01 and she ended up spending about 5 weeks in hospital.

32:05 Obviously, they came to the diagnosis of diabetes type 1.

32:08 Diabetes minutes of her arrival in the hospital, she was

32:11 diagnosed with that. Like to me that says a lot, you

32:15 know, like that, you know, this was a very quick, easy thing

32:18 that they could have dealt with a week prior to this as a

32:21 minimum. Like as in when she first

32:22 started showing symptoms, there was no need for any of her

32:26 feeling any of this what she went through.

32:29 And you know, in this day and age, diabetes, type 1 diabetes

32:34 especially, I mean type 2 diabetes is a bit of a different

32:37 story, but type 1 diabetics can live the they have the same life

32:43 expectancy of anyone else, anyone else in the population.

32:47 There is no reason. That this has a.

32:50 Negative. Impact medical intervention

32:52 these days to be able to support people with.

32:54 Tolerated. Well known.

32:56 You know, we've got insulin there.

32:58 Well, this is the thing that I really, I feel like blowing

33:01 holes again in this scenario of like, OK, as a religion, they

33:06 don't want medical intervention, OK, and science being part of

33:10 like their lives and what? And that, OK, if that's what you

33:13 choose, that's one thing. But insulin is naturally

33:17 produced. I understand that it's

33:19 synthetically produced for very don't to be able to have enough

33:21 to, you know, to treat these people that, you know, 'cause

33:24 there's lots of people that need insulin and things like that.

33:26 But it is a naturally produced thing.

33:28 It's not like people were saying she has diabetes and we're going

33:31 to inject some sort of chemical into her.

33:34 Yeah, you're actually injecting something in that your body

33:37 creates on its own. And it's.

33:39 Perfectly. It's too cool.

33:41 Your body just doesn't produce enough of it, so we're gonna

33:43 help you by by giving it to you externally.

33:47 That I really struggle with of like trying to like I try to

33:50 come at people's different religions and different

33:53 thoughts. No, no, this goes.

33:54 But this is well beyond that in that this is a natural producing

33:57 thing. You are not giving this person

33:59 chemotherapy, let's say, you know, like you put you're not

34:02 pumping in something that shouldn't be there.

34:04 Yeah, in a typical. Yep.

34:06 Body, body, yeah. I just, I get, I get what you're

34:09 saying. Like it's so extreme.

34:11 Like you can almost maybe understand people not wanting to

34:14 put certain chemicals into their body like.

34:16 Chemo, if people are gonna as an adult choose, I don't want that

34:20 vaccine or whatever like if that in that scenario, then you deal

34:22 with the you deal with the consequences of that sort of

34:24 thing. But this is a natural producing

34:26 thing and a child. Yeah, I get I, I see.

34:28 I totally get what you're saying.

34:29 I agree. So basically though, when they

34:33 were at the Royal Children's Hospital, Jason was the one

34:37 learning to administer the insulin and figure it all out,

34:42 make sure her levels are all right, blah blah blah.

34:44 It's AI mean. It would be a massive learning

34:46 curve. Oh, totally.

34:47 Kerry did not visit once. Her daughter was minutes away

34:53 from death and she never ever visited her in hospital.

35:00 God'll heal her, she's fine. Regardless of whether you think

35:04 God is going to heal her, do you not want to go and see your own

35:08 daughter? I don't know whether this played

35:10 a part in that. I don't think it did, but I'll

35:12 say it anyway. Obviously, when they first

35:15 arrived at the hospital, part of that process of like, obviously

35:18 first and foremost get her stable.

35:20 But one of the next things they did do was contact child

35:22 protection. Yeah, because it was a clear

35:25 case of neglect, because this child should not have been got

35:28 to that point before being brought to hospital.

35:31 So they were contacted and they were involved in this scenario

35:33 at this point. So obviously they were being

35:38 questioned around that. And I, I don't, we don't know, I

35:41 guess, whether child protection were keeping her from her.

35:45 You know, I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt here.

35:48 I don't believe so, but there's that layer at least to know that

35:52 that is something that's going on around this at the time.

35:54 I think, yeah, absolutely. But I can't imagine this was the

35:57 first incident where child protection had been involved

36:01 with this family. Yeah, I don't think they could

36:03 have, without doing a very thorough investigation, have

36:05 kept a mother from her own child.

36:07 Yeah, yeah, I think they could have at that point.

36:11 But yeah, yeah, Oh my God. But with how bad I was, I don't

36:14 I wouldn't have. Yeah, OK.

36:16 But I but that's not been reported anywhere.

36:18 No, it's not. So I don't think that's what

36:20 happened. I'm just saying that I we don't

36:22 you're. Giving absolutely any doubt.

36:24 But they let, I mean, obviously they're letting Jason, if that's

36:26 the case. But he was the one who was

36:28 saying, I don't know. I I've, I've brought her here.

36:30 I want to make sure we get this sorted.

36:32 I want to, you know, learn how to do this.

36:34 And we're going to get this right.

36:35 I will never let this happen again.

36:36 Yeah, well, his words, he was, you know, the whole way along.

36:39 Yeah. Whereas he should.

36:39 Have brought her in earlier like he.

36:41 He expressed regret. For that he expressed regret.

36:44 Not enough weak piece of shit, no, but Kerry was doubling down

36:49 on the fact of like we should never have bought her here.

36:51 Oh. God, God I know.

36:54 So charges were brought upon both of them for this neglect

36:58 they were charged with. Failing to provide the

37:02 necessities of life with what they were charged with, Yeah.

37:05 So what ended up happening is so Jason actually pled guilty and

37:11 he was given a six or 12 months suspended sentence, I can't

37:14 remember. Now 12 months suspended and

37:16 yeah. He served none of that time

37:18 because he did a deal. Yeah.

37:20 In testifying against Kerry in her trial, she was sentenced to

37:24 18 months. She ended up serving.

37:26 Five months, which is fucked. Which is so fucked up.

37:30 It's so fucked up and. Sorry, it was six months he was

37:34 sentenced to Indian that was suspended.

37:36 Yeah. And basically given because he

37:39 was the parent saying no, no, no.

37:40 I will ensure this never happens again and testify against Kerry.

37:45 He didn't end up actually spending any time in jail.

37:47 But he'd also proven that he was administering the insulin, and

37:51 that's stable. She was back at school.

37:53 She was, you know, living. Essentially, he'd done all the

37:56 right things, he'd ticked all the boxes.

37:57 Whereas Kerry was still to that, like as she she plead not

38:01 guilty, she was saying that she did nothing wrong.

38:05 God will heal her. Do you also think just really

38:09 quickly just reminded me when I said she was back at school,

38:13 Yeah. Do you think it's weird that

38:15 they didn't homeschool their children because they were going

38:18 out and getting all these worldly ideas at at school and

38:22 then coming home to this extreme view?

38:25 Yeah, that would have been really hard for the kids.

38:26 I know I mean and hard for I think someone like Brendan to

38:30 then influenced if they're but they want I think they wanted

38:33 them out in the world though, to be able to.

38:34 Recruit more, Yeah, OK. I think that, and the thing was,

38:36 this is what I got, what really gets me with this whole, with

38:38 this cult, particularly of again, it was said before how

38:42 quickly people were indoctrinated into it and the

38:45 these were such extreme views, such extreme views that they

38:50 were so much believing of this that I guess, yeah, they were

38:56 like, yeah, go into the world because we're not going to lose

38:58 them. Yeah, OK.

39:00 Yeah. Which flaws me of how that is

39:03 the case and normally. Like cults are about control,

39:06 Yeah, I mean. It was very much control, very

39:09 much control. But yeah, not controlling them

39:11 as in like don't go out in the world.

39:12 They were letting them out to do those that go to work in the,

39:15 you know, in your office space and in, in those places where

39:17 there was one, one guy who I think I mean Lachlan, who was

39:20 no, no, sorry, he was the engineer.

39:21 Someone else was like a shoe repair.

39:24 Yes, business. And yeah, you know, they were

39:26 working in these everyday businesses dealing with the

39:29 public. Interacting with the public all

39:31 the time. Yeah, but that's where I go.

39:33 There's some other psychology, logical level of whatever

39:35 Brendan was doing that there was no breaking.

39:38 I mean, to this day, no breaking of these people's beliefs of

39:41 this, No I. I know it.

39:45 I know it absolutely blows my mind.

39:48 So basically, while Kerry's in prison, so she was, did we say

39:55 what she was sentenced to? Yeah, she was sentenced to

39:57 failing to provide the necessities of life for 18

40:00 months, served only 5. So when she went to prison, now

40:05 you've got to have a bit of a think about this.

40:07 Jason's at home with eight children.

40:11 He is. How old are they?

40:13 No, he's only home with seven children. 7 Sorry, because I

40:15 guess we probably should mention too.

40:16 Then the eldest Jade. Yeah.

40:18 So she made a breakaway from the family at about the age of 16.

40:23 So she realized that. So she was as being the eldest,

40:26 she was raised in the Pentecostal church as a a

40:29 younger child. And you'd hear lots of

40:31 interviews with her. She's very vocal around all of

40:33 this and really respect, respect her and me too.

40:36 Her. She still believes in her

40:37 religious beliefs and has those and they're very like a standard

40:41 religious beliefs like so she he has at the age of 16, though she

40:46 started to, well before that, even changing over to Brendan's

40:50 church and joining that. She did struggle with it.

40:53 And in particular, like she said, because she celebrated

40:56 Christmas and things like all of a sudden there was no birthdays,

40:58 there was no Christmases. And as a kid, that's big deal,

41:01 massive, huge take those things away from her.

41:03 So I think she was easier to, yeah, be out in the world and

41:06 kind of go. I know there's other things out

41:08 there and I don't really believe she was.

41:10 She wasn't as indoctrinated as others, especially like then the

41:14 next sibling, Zachary, who was definitely, you know, he he got

41:17 brilliant Kool. Aid is it also like the other

41:20 thing is that Jade, when she was a younger teenager, she came out

41:27 as being gay. Yeah, well, she realized that,

41:29 yeah, that's what she was. She says now that she reckon she

41:31 would have come out even earlier than she did had she not been

41:35 involved in this, because she knew that this was something

41:38 that was not going to be accepted.

41:39 No, but she had these feelings about herself even earlier.

41:42 Yeah. Yeah, so she left the the house,

41:45 the home, the family when she was 16.

41:48 Now she actually went to live with other family members.

41:51 So she did have somewhere to go. Thank God, because when I was

41:54 first listening to this story, I'm like, what happened to.

41:56 Yeah, she, like, out on the streets on her own.

41:58 Like, where did she go? But she did have other family

42:00 members who took her in, thankfully.

42:02 Oh yeah. And raised her for the rest of

42:04 her teenagehood sort of thing. Carries parents even they're

42:07 very to this day, like sort of are involved and that they don't

42:11 have these extreme views and they, you know, they're lovely.

42:14 They're really down to people. And yeah, so Jade's, you know,

42:17 being able to go to people, which fantastic that she had

42:20 that support to be able to move to.

42:21 And she did stay in contact with Brendan, and even did.

42:24 See. Do you mean siblings?

42:25 Oh, sorry Jason, sorry. She even did see her siblings

42:28 somewhat, some regularly. That this is the thing, as we

42:32 were saying, like typically, if you as a child of the people in

42:35 these cults, if you were then to like move, say no, I don't want

42:38 a part of this, they would shun you entirely and not let you

42:41 anywhere near those people in the cold again to, you know, you

42:44 don't have them infiltrating and being able to take away people

42:46 out of the cult. But that's not how Brendan did

42:49 it, you know? And so he did allow them to

42:51 still see each other. But I think also the fact that

42:54 Jason wasn't in it probably helped because I know I'm pretty

42:59 sure Jade didn't have a lot to do with her mum.

43:01 I think all of the contact was through Jason definitely that

43:05 that would have helped I guess in that, in that way.

43:09 But anyway, so Kerry's now we're sort of fast forwarded again.

43:12 Kerry's in prison, she's serving this what ends up being a 5

43:15 month sentence. Yeah, Jason is at home with

43:19 seven children, Yes, and he's a Baker, so he's doing these early

43:24 mornings and. And juggling a young child with.

43:27 Diabetes, that's right. There's a lot going on.

43:29 It's a very stressful time. And people around him, I'm

43:33 talking work colleagues, I'm not talking the Saints, but work

43:37 colleagues sort of and family, other family members as well

43:41 describe that he had basically a mental breakdown.

43:45 He it was just all too much. It was all overwhelming.

43:49 And unfortunately in that moment of absolute vulnerability and of

43:53 him hitting rock bottom, who comes in and sweeps in with a

43:57 perfect solution to all of this? Fucking Brendan Stevens, that

44:00 piece of shit. He.

44:02 Turned to his son Zachary 1st and said to him like I'm not

44:05 coping. And Zachary, who was very much

44:07 in with Brendan, turned to him and said, we've got to pray

44:11 because God heals all. And so Brendan did do that.

44:15 And this is where I find this really this interviews of like

44:19 him, police interviews, you hear him talking about this fact of

44:22 like, like literally immediately he felt better.

44:26 Like I feel like what he all he did was basically go, oh, just

44:30 to solve myself of any responsibility.

44:34 And therefore I feel better Prior to that you were being a

44:37 parent and that's stressful at any time, let alone be on your

44:41 own. We don't just seven check out of

44:42 that. No, you don't.

44:43 Sorry, you don't. You don't, but that's literally

44:46 what his solution to this was, was just absolve yourself of it.

44:50 I honestly believe that he. Was he was in his 60s at this

44:53 time? Well, I think he was.

44:55 I think he might have just been 60 actually.

44:57 And he gets baptized. There's video footage of it.

45:00 You can. Find we're talking at the moment

45:01 too. Like this is 2 months in, Yeah,

45:03 to carry sentence. This is early days really of

45:07 like because she's meant to be serving 18 months.

45:09 Yeah, fuck me. I know, I know.

45:12 Didn't take long. Nope.

45:16 Weak piece of shit. Oh.

45:17 He, he had. Oh my God, isn't he?

45:21 So he gets baptized in the backyard of, I think of

45:24 Brendan's house. Brendan's house.

45:26 Yeah. In a bathtub.

45:27 Yeah, that's outside. And it's all singing and

45:32 clapping and dancing and rejoicing in the fact that

45:37 Brendan's finally come over. Kerry says that when she found

45:40 out this information, she was like, well, I'm gonna, I'm not

45:43 leaving him anymore. This is the thing and I think

45:45 actually Brendan has he's on record of saying this too, that

45:48 prior when so obviously with her going to jail, he really

45:51 understood that her really doubling down and really like

45:54 getting like that was. He knew that it was just like

45:56 the end of his marriage that she would come back from her time in

46:00 prison and that their marriage would be over.

46:03 Which OK, here's your choice. Your daughter being healthy and

46:09 with us or staying with your wife who is going to inflict

46:15 that pain and ending of a life on your daughter?

46:19 Which do you choose? That motherfucker chose the wife

46:25 and and decided that he would go down her route of her religion

46:29 to ensure that his marriage stayed intact.

46:31 Yeah, a doctor testified at Kerry's trial, one of the

46:35 doctors from Toowoomba Base Hospital who was one of the

46:40 first to treat Elizabeth when she first presented.

46:43 And he said, and he even wrote a letter to child protection

46:47 saying this will happen again. Yep, if this child is allowed in

46:52 her mother's custody. Which that testimony has been

46:57 ignored on so many levels. And it makes me feel sick.

47:02 So after the five months that Kerry's been in prison, she gets

47:07 let out and she gets she is allowed to go back to the home

47:13 in which Elizabeth is living now.

47:16 I. Don't understand?

47:18 To child protection they never came out to to visit after she

47:23 was released from prison not. Only that like I even go back to

47:26 the fact of yes, OK, Jason has said I'm going to look after

47:31 Elizabeth and make sure this never happens again.

47:33 But I'm returning to the same family home who where there are

47:36 children living who are in this church and he's going to.

47:42 I just cannot fathom that child protection did not go further in

47:46 respect to protecting Elizabeth at that point, even, let alone

47:52 allowing the mother returning into that same home knowing I

47:57 don't know how she got fucking parole because she never once

48:00 said I regret what I did. Oh no, she she never.

48:03 She actually said the absolute opposite.

48:05 Yep, she should never have got parole.

48:07 How, who, who did that? That's on them and they they

48:10 need to be held accountable to. But child protection should have

48:14 been flagged at that point, Absolutely.

48:15 Whether it was at five months or 18 months, where no matter what

48:18 her length of sentence was, that should have been an intervention

48:21 point for someone coming in and saying we need to check this

48:24 family home for Elizabeth. And with all the other children

48:29 like because the other children are in danger too.

48:31 They fall over at school and break their arm and they're not

48:34 going to get medical attention either.

48:36 Why there weren't more eyes on this, I don't know.

48:39 I think for the fact that the kids hadn't had any injuries or

48:44 anything that was reportable. Lucky.

48:46 Lucky. I mean, with kids, bloody hell,

48:48 Jesus. But then also the kids were

48:51 really kept insulated. What?

48:54 So I'm saying, yes, of course they go to school.

48:56 Shit happens at school sometimes.

48:57 Yeah. But neighbors of them in Timber

49:00 would say that, you know, as kids, they're riding their

49:03 bikes, they're out the front. They go, they see there's other

49:06 kids, they go, do you want to come and play?

49:07 And they were always like, oh, no, no, no.

49:09 They returned inside. So they didn't really have like,

49:13 an outdoorsy lifestyle. No, they certainly didn't

49:16 interact with peers with other children their age unless they

49:20 were at school. So maybe that's how they avoided

49:23 any potential injuries. But I mean, kids get sick if

49:27 you're out at school. They would have.

49:29 I'm sure those kids would have suffered through different.

49:31 Illnesses. Absolutely.

49:32 That were never treated and they just had to, you know, tough it

49:35 out, tough it out and get over it eventually.

49:37 Healed by God. Yeah.

49:39 Oh, fuck me. It's so fucking horrible.

49:41 Yeah, within two weeks. It's 3 was that. 3 Two weeks of

49:47 Kerry's release, so it took a week.

49:51 So within two weeks of Kerry's release from prison.

49:54 Oh yeah, yeah. It was decided amongst the

49:59 adults. Well, I think it was Jason who

50:03 actually just, he says they didn't actually think about this

50:07 prior. It was they were having sort of

50:10 a bit of a get together of like because Kerry was home and he

50:13 just stood up out of nowhere. He said God just made him do it.

50:17 And he said Elizabeth is cured. Sorry.

50:24 What? What?

50:26 And yeah, that's. And Brendan's like, yes, she's

50:29 cured. God's cured her so.

50:31 So she doesn't need her insulin anymore.

50:34 So this was the 1st of January. This happened now in 2022.

50:42 So Elizabeth, they've withdrawn insulin from her now within 24

50:50 hours. So the next day Elizabeth wakes

50:52 up and she's fine. So they're like, see, see.

50:54 She's. Good.

50:55 She is cured. She hasn't had any insulin her.

50:58 Levels were like where they exactly normally.

51:01 Are should be in the morning like her.

51:03 In fact, I think Jason even said her blood sugars were the best

51:07 they'd been that morning. I'm.

51:08 Sure, he says that. Within a day.

51:13 Now this is very well documented, very well known.

51:17 If you don't have insulin for a day as a type 1 diabetic, you

51:21 begin to go into what is known as diabetic ketoacidosis.

51:27 This is basically a staged process by which acid builds up

51:31 in your blood and your body tries to get rid of that and

51:35 tries to bring your balance back, your pH balance back.

51:38 Yeah. It does this by increasing your

51:40 thirst. You start heavy breathing.

51:44 Your breath smells really sweet. There's lots of ketones in your

51:47 breath. Yeah.

51:50 The patients eventually become. There's vomiting, diarrhea,

51:54 excessive urination. Yeah.

51:56 And someone put it really like kind of beautifully at this

51:59 moment where because all those things that the body's doing is

52:02 actually trying to protect the body.

52:04 That's right and it. Basically, eats itself.

52:06 Yeah, in order to. Like, keep the brain active in

52:09 the heart and get enough glucose.

52:10 Yeah. And someone was said, I can't

52:12 remember who it was said basically her body was doing

52:15 more than her parents were ever going to do for her.

52:17 Oh, my God. I was like, Oh my God, that's

52:20 that's so fucked up. Like.

52:23 Yeah, but it's true. Her body was fighting.

52:26 Fighting and fighting so hard to help her.

52:28 Eventually, so they it got to a point where, you know, this was

52:33 only a couple of days after the insulin was withdrawn.

52:36 She couldn't even walk. They brought a mattress into the

52:41 lounge room and they were all coming over and praying and.

52:44 And they weren't praying for her to like they were praying for

52:48 her to be healed by God. That's all that what they were

52:50 praying for. They weren't.

52:53 Oh, it's just. Carrie and Jason would go off to

52:55 bed at night and someone else, another member of the church,

52:58 would stay up and sit with her. I don't even know how I, I, I

53:02 can't come at it. I think it makes me so.

53:05 I can't even believe that. I can't believe that, but I do

53:09 believe it because I know what happened.

53:10 Yeah, yeah. So basically, Elizabeth falls

53:15 into a diabetic coma and seven days after the insulin was

53:22 withdrawn, she takes her final breath.

53:25 Those seven days would have been at least six would have been

53:29 excruciating for her. When members of the church, I

53:35 think Brendan, this was in an interview with Brendan, he's

53:37 like, no, she wasn't suffering. There were no external signs of

53:41 of suffering at all. And I'm like, fuck off, that is.

53:46 Bullshit number one for one thing, like couldn't stand up.

53:50 Stand up there was. The child was probably too

53:53 scared to show how sick she was. Well, she.

53:55 Probably no strength to show how scared she was.

53:58 Nothing left. She was relying on everyone else

54:00 there, those other adults, to take care of this.

54:03 Is the other thing that fucking makes me so mad.

54:06 In one of the inter police interviews they're like well she

54:08 didn't want the insulin. She's fucking eight years.

54:11 Old. Yeah.

54:12 Yeah, she's 8 years old. Brendan goes well.

54:14 She wanted this. Fuck.

54:16 She did not want this. That is not anyone.

54:20 She doesn't want anyone. Sure, girl.

54:21 You fucking brainwashed her to think she doesn't want this, to

54:25 think that God's going to save her.

54:27 Yeah, she has no critical thinking skills.

54:29 She's fucking eight years old. Oh my God and the the one the

54:35 thing that gets me even more than that is the interviews with

54:39 the police after this. How come out of all of them

54:44 Jason is the others I understand have had this belief for a long

54:49 time. Jason's literally been in these

54:52 like 3 months and he is so like content with the fact of what

54:57 has taken place. Talk about what happens after

54:59 her death. Yeah, they all come over.

55:01 They're praying, singing, dancing.

55:03 They're dancing out on the lawn. They're dancing around.

55:05 Her body, they're not praying because she's died.

55:08 They're praying that she was resurrected.

55:10 Yeah, She's just sleeping. Yep.

55:12 And she will rise again. Yep.

55:15 So 3636 hours after her death, they decide that they should

55:20 probably call 000 because God clearly wants more witnesses.

55:25 It's not about resurrect getting her help.

55:27 No, no, no, no, because this must be God's plan that we need

55:31 to call services in, because then when she goes wherever

55:36 she's gonna go, more people see that.

55:38 She's resurrected and part of their religion is hands on

55:41 people is what helps heal and that was why that so eyes on on

55:45 people and and hands on was supposedly what she needed to

55:50 resurrect her from the dead. Now I feel so sorry for the

55:55 emergency services workers who attended the scene because so

55:58 there was a recruit ambulance officer and two, two qualified

56:03 ambulance officers who arrived now and two police officers.

56:09 What they would have walked into, I can't even imagine that

56:12 would stay with you forever. There's a dead 8 year old in the

56:16 middle of a lounge room on a mattress on the floor.

56:20 I can't even imagine that scene. But they did try to perform

56:24 CPRI. Guess they had to I.

56:26 Think I'd legally like kind of. Very, very intense that she was

56:28 already deceased and well and truly deceased.

56:31 Yeah. They've then removed her body

56:34 from the scene from the house. Whilst they're doing that

56:37 though, these motherfuckers are singing.

56:42 And I don't mean sombre. I'm sorry, this is jovial.

56:45 Joyful fucking singing. Happy clapping.

56:50 Yeah, beyond and you can hear it in the background of the police

56:53 interviews and stuff. They do kind of out the front of

56:55 the. House their body.

56:56 Can as they start to do the spread according of the scene,

56:59 like because they realise it's a crime scene very quickly.

57:03 Yeah. And it just, it actually fucking

57:06 does my head in that how anyone these people are insane.

57:10 Oh yeah. Because there's no sane person

57:13 that could do that in front of of that going on.

57:18 And neighbors say that that that jovial singing and dancing had

57:22 been happening for basically that entire 36 hours from when

57:26 she died until her body was taken away.

57:29 You. Literally don't have any kind of

57:30 heart. Oh.

57:31 No, no, no. So obviously, as you said, the

57:37 police, once they found out she'd been deceased for 36 hours

57:40 and they were very matter of fact about telling them that

57:44 they started to ask questions as you do.

57:47 And Jason was the first one interviewed.

57:50 And they say to him, how is how are you related to this, to

57:54 Elizabeth? Well, she's my daughter.

57:55 And they're like, oh, the the police officer's like, oh, OK,

58:00 right. So can you tell me a little bit

58:02 about what's happened here? And he basically said that she

58:08 was cured from her diabetes. Well, clearly not.

58:12 Quite obviously not. And she's not actually dead.

58:16 This is God's plan. She's just sleeping.

58:18 She's just sleeping and she will be resurrected.

58:22 So just you just need to wait for that because she will

58:24 actually be resurrected. Because as well, this sort of

58:28 occurred with the 2019 incident where she was taken to hospital

58:32 and diagnosed with diabetes at the first time.

58:35 All along, Kerry would never say that Elizabeth going to hospital

58:41 that time is what healed her. She 100% to this point in time

58:48 and even now as we speak, believes that it was God that

58:53 healed her that time, not the hospital.

58:56 So what? This is just a fucking

58:58 coincidence that she was near death and you take her to this

59:03 miraculous building where there's people who know what

59:06 they're doing and she after a month, let alone like, I mean,

59:10 it's still it took time, but she was very quickly at least

59:13 stabilized and then a month later was able to come out of

59:15 that hospital, you know, a well, however, child who has diabetes

59:20 and continue her life. That has absolutely nothing to

59:22 do with her. The fact that she was in that

59:24 facility and with those people, according to her, this was all.

59:28 God, when Brendan's interviewed about this, he says that medical

59:34 practitioners kill people all the time, so why would you trust

59:38 in them? I'm like, are you fucking

59:40 kidding me? No, they're, they're very rare.

59:42 And we've we've that's why we did a podcast on the one like

59:45 one that's very, you know, it's rare that they do that.

59:47 That's not, that's not a thing. It's not a thing.

59:49 Like it's not a thing. No, but that's why.

59:52 So they they're at the front of this scenario here, fully

59:55 convinced that she's not dead and she's going to come back

1:00:00 because God heals and she's and God's already healed her once.

1:00:04 He's gonna do it again. Brendan again says what?

1:00:07 I know why. Does your brain not kick?

1:00:08 In no and none of them are sad. Nope.

1:00:11 No one's sad. No one's crying.

1:00:13 No one's sad. They're not Jason.

1:00:14 He fight out, says I'm not sad. Yeah, he said.

1:00:17 He's like, I know I'm gonna say her again.

1:00:20 I hope you you should never have seen her again after the last

1:00:22 time. Exactly.

1:00:24 So what when Brendan in Brendan's police interview, he

1:00:31 said, oh, just you wait until the morgue sees her rise.

1:00:35 Oh, and I when he said that like, I'm like, how do these

1:00:41 police do these interviews too? Because they're so good.

1:00:44 There's a female, a cop who leads it when at the actual

1:00:47 scene, she and she's interviewed them, she interviewed them back

1:00:49 in the 2019 case as well. And she is so damn good.

1:00:55 She's being able to react and like not react at this, like,

1:00:58 you know, when they say these outrageous fucking things and

1:01:01 her response to them is like, OK, and the and the next

1:01:04 question, you know, kind of thing.

1:01:05 I couldn't help myself. Me.

1:01:07 A bit better or can you give me a bit more detail around?

1:01:09 That deadpan look on her face where I, I, I know I wouldn't be

1:01:12 able to contain myself. I know it.

1:01:14 I'd be like, are you? You cannot be for fucking.

1:01:16 Real. Yeah, you cannot actually

1:01:18 believe that. No.

1:01:20 Oh, yeah, yeah, Brendan's interview is equally as oh, it's

1:01:24 disturbing, infuriating in terms.

1:01:26 And but at the same time, Jason and Carrie are her parents.

1:01:30 The only grace in the grace in that I'll give Brendan is that

1:01:33 he's removed and he's not hurt, not that child's parent, but he

1:01:36 had responsibility over here in this Senate situation.

1:01:38 He. Just the one who encouraged.

1:01:39 He stopped. He did all this, but he.

1:01:41 Oh, God. And I mean, he founded this, the

1:01:43 Saints. He founded the church cult,

1:01:47 cult, cult, cult. Absolutely.

1:01:50 Oh God. Oh, it's just phenomenal.

1:01:53 Yeah. It's for not.

1:01:54 It's unbelievable. It's, it's, it's truly, truly

1:01:57 unbelievable. It really, really, genuinely is.

1:02:00 I I found it incredibly bizarre that this all played out the way

1:02:04 it did. Yeah, I mean.

1:02:05 Over over the time after. Oh, this is OK.

1:02:08 This is actually, this is the thing out of all of it, maybe

1:02:13 excluding the actual death, but this is the thing that breaks my

1:02:17 fucking heart. They never claimed her body and

1:02:24 they never held a funeral or anything like that.

1:02:27 Oh God. So Jade, yeah, was eventually

1:02:31 contacted by the Moor, by the coroner.

1:02:34 She found out about this via a journalist.

1:02:38 Oh, no, She found out that Elizabeth had died from a

1:02:40 journalist. Yes.

1:02:42 Yeah. Which is disgusting in and of

1:02:43 itself. Like, do you know the Toowoomba

1:02:45 strews? Yeah, Yeah, why?

1:02:48 Googles it and she finds out there's a death of a child and

1:02:51 she's like. Putting 2 together as Elizabeth?

1:02:53 Yes, like. But so sorry, this is after Jade

1:02:56 had found out that she was. Yeah, yeah.

1:02:58 She gets a phone call from the Mortuary to say we've contacted

1:03:03 the next of kin and they don't want to pick up the remains you

1:03:08 have. You're the next person.

1:03:10 This is where next rite of refusal.

1:03:13 Like oh fuck. So of course Jade takes

1:03:17 Elizabeth's ashes. They opted to have her cremated.

1:03:20 I think Jade opted to have her cremated.

1:03:22 I'm not. Really.

1:03:23 Oh, Jade have been at that. Point.

1:03:24 She was 20. So I mean, that's so young.

1:03:27 So. Young to be dealing with that I

1:03:29 just. Jade was far too young to be

1:03:32 dealing with this, you know. Imagine how alone she would have

1:03:36 felt anyway. And now she's taking

1:03:40 responsibility for her youngest sister's ashes.

1:03:45 Horrid, horrid, horrid. Oh, how could her parents not

1:03:51 want her? This is where I don't.

1:03:52 Get that? That's why I can't.

1:03:55 I can't see how this is a religion like as in religions

1:03:59 are supposed to be the values of a religion.

1:04:03 I can always come at like as in, you know, look after others

1:04:08 friends, be friendly, you know, be kind, be in loving all those

1:04:12 sorts of values. I can always I've as much as I'm

1:04:15 so far from not. I don't believe in God, but if

1:04:18 you want to be a good Christian and all those sorts of things,

1:04:22 yeah, I think that they are values I absolutely can uphold.

1:04:26 But where is this religion? It does not hold any of those

1:04:32 basic values that are what they. Cherry pick what they want out

1:04:36 of the Bible. Oh, this?

1:04:37 Is don't so is how can you be like this is the religion that

1:04:42 God's meant to be all healing, but you know, leave your

1:04:45 daughter and her body to rot in a morgue.

1:04:49 What I don't I? Can't.

1:04:52 I can't. I can't even.

1:04:53 This was that this was this is what broke me.

1:04:55 Yeah. I'm like, how can you even

1:04:58 believing what they believe? Why wouldn't they take her body?

1:05:02 Yeah. And you know, if you see.

1:05:04 Ever they want to do in their religion, of that it surely is

1:05:10 not just leave it in a morgue. Yeah, it makes, it actually

1:05:14 makes me feel sick. It's horrid.

1:05:16 And that you know where. Oh, that poor.

1:05:19 I'm so glad she had Jade because there's no one else in that

1:05:22 family. I mean, grandparents were, you

1:05:23 know that. Was removed.

1:05:24 That would have done that, Yeah. So I mean, I'm so grateful for

1:05:28 Jade, for Elizabeth, like because her fucking parents,

1:05:33 absolute sacks of shit. Fuck, I don't even think that.

1:05:36 No, that doesn't. Cover it.

1:05:38 No. And you know, even before Jason

1:05:41 joined the religion what a weak piece of shit he must be because

1:05:46 he's not standing up to his wife when he can clearly see that

1:05:50 their daughter was so unwell and he let it get to the point where

1:05:54 she was in a fucking coma before he did anything about it, no.

1:05:57 Yeah, it's no, I go back to that original statement around like

1:06:01 religion's big deal in terms of values in a relationship.

1:06:04 And he clearly as much as he held his, he's held his ground

1:06:08 of whatever like, oh, I don't believe and you do.

1:06:11 And that's fine as long as it doesn't like and but couldn't

1:06:15 care less when it doesn't impact him either.

1:06:18 Yeah. And I just find that incredibly,

1:06:20 like, it was like, to me that's almost as so weak.

1:06:23 It's basically like I don't have the energy to believe anything

1:06:26 anyway so I don't really give a shit.

1:06:28 Yeah, it's like it's apathy. Yeah, it's not OK.

1:06:30 It wasn't a staunch like, you know, like, no, I don't believe

1:06:33 that you can believe what you want to believe.

1:06:35 To the doctor, but she's my daughter too.

1:06:37 Absolutely like not to understand up to that just

1:06:41 absolutely makes you so culpable, so incredibly wrong.

1:06:48 Absolutely. What a fucking Dick.

1:06:50 So basically, I think Jason and Brendan were charged with

1:06:57 murder. Yeah.

1:06:58 And so Kerry the mum. Yeah, Zachary, the brother, the

1:07:04 eldest brother, all of the Stevens children who were living

1:07:07 at home and were members of the church.

1:07:09 Yep, Lachlan and Samantha Showenfish and Kita Martin were

1:07:15 all charged with manslaughter. 14 people in total were charged

1:07:20 in relation to the murder of Elizabeth.

1:07:22 Fucking job. I haven't looked it up.

1:07:25 I should have. Has there ever been that many

1:07:27 people in Australia charged with the same leader?

1:07:29 I don't believe. Crazy like, I mean, not as in

1:07:32 like, that's just that's. Great.

1:07:33 Like, you know, thank God they went that far.

1:07:36 Absolutely. I mean, I don't think they went

1:07:38 fair enough in the end, but. Well, no, I agree with that, but

1:07:41 at least, I guess at least we got.

1:07:43 We got somewhere. Yep.

1:07:45 So in the end that it ended up being a judge only trial because

1:07:52 this had received so much media. I'm talking not only in a within

1:07:57 Australia but internationally. It was a massive news story.

1:08:01 Of course it was. It is.

1:08:02 Fucking I don't know that it was big enough to be honest.

1:08:05 I really honest, I feel like it wasn't big enough.

1:08:08 You know what? I think you're right.

1:08:10 Because the reason being the name Elizabeth Strews wasn't

1:08:15 instantly recognisable to me. I knew the case and I knew the

1:08:18 story. Her name wasn't in my.

1:08:22 Head No, no, I don't. I think you're absolutely right.

1:08:26 I feel like maybe if you lived in the in Queensland, yes, it

1:08:28 was probably much more heavily played there.

1:08:31 I feel like being out of the state, which that's that

1:08:34 shouldn't this case should have moved across state lines.

1:08:38 It should have been more, it should have been bigger because

1:08:40 this is there is so much and we'll get into it in terms of

1:08:44 what was wrong in this situation.

1:08:46 That has to be, and I'm not saying should be, it has to be

1:08:50 fixed. We cannot allow as a society

1:08:54 this to ever happen to a child ever again anywhere in

1:08:59 Australia, anyone in the world. It is not OK.

1:09:03 There were people who let her down as well as her parents.

1:09:08 It's so wrong. But we'll get to it.

1:09:10 We'll let's so in terms of the the trial itself, was it I can

1:09:15 oh, shit show. Fucking shit show because they

1:09:17 chose to represent themselves well first of all.

1:09:20 But they also, like, chose to run the trial.

1:09:23 Yeah, all 14 of them, Yeah, at once, which that I don't know

1:09:26 has ever happened before. No, not that big.

1:09:29 A. They had to rearrange the

1:09:30 courtroom to fit them all behind the right desk.

1:09:33 Yeah, they give. You all desks and it meant that

1:09:36 there wasn't a huge amount of public space, but because there

1:09:39 was interest in this case, they had sort of overflow rooms and

1:09:42 stuff for people to be able to bear witness to this.

1:09:45 But they didn't want legal representation.

1:09:47 They refused to enter a plea. So the judge had to enter a plea

1:09:50 on their behalf. And he obviously entered a plea

1:09:53 of not guilty. Yeah.

1:09:54 So the trial has proceeded and Brendan basically represent

1:10:00 them. All they no, they each

1:10:02 represented themselves. Well, technically, but I think

1:10:05 he was the main spokesperson. Each one of them would take on

1:10:09 took on like appoint person for various people that were.

1:10:13 So the prosecution brought in witnesses and you know, that's

1:10:17 something so that when but when it came to the defense putting

1:10:21 their case to the judge, they didn't.

1:10:24 So but they would cross examine witnesses that were on the stand

1:10:28 that the prosecution put up there, which was part of it was

1:10:32 their family members and stuff, you know, like, but they each

1:10:36 had a moment where they were point person and they would go

1:10:38 and cross examine these people. I don't think that's right

1:10:42 either, because I don't think that you should be like cross

1:10:44 examining. Like at one point I think Jade,

1:10:46 I think Jade sat on the stand. Yeah, she did.

1:10:48 And like her mum or dad cross examined her, I don't think that

1:10:52 that's appropriate. And I think Brendan did with her

1:10:55 as well. Oh, that would have been so

1:10:57 difficult. Well, she, she actually got up

1:10:58 and said this is the most difficult thing I've ever had to

1:11:01 do. Yes, of course, of course.

1:11:03 I mean on so many levels. It's just, I don't think that

1:11:06 that's right, that that should be allowed, but.

1:11:09 So yeah, it was a judge only trial, yeah, because they

1:11:12 wouldn't have been able to have been an unbiased jury.

1:11:15 Yeah, selection process. So which yes, I think that's a

1:11:18 probably a really good call. Yeah, but only that because of

1:11:22 what kind of AI. Just think that it had to be in

1:11:24 this situation because they made a mockery of the entire court

1:11:27 system that the 14 of them. So they would have like these

1:11:31 family members would come on the stand and then the prosecution

1:11:34 would be like, you know, asking them questions.

1:11:36 And they would sticker and laugh and just talk amongst themselves

1:11:40 as if they were, you know, in their home doing their fucking

1:11:43 church thing in the middle of the court.

1:11:45 The the amount of times the judge had to stop them and tell

1:11:49 them to stop speaking. And it just was an absolute

1:11:52 circus. It was a circus.

1:11:53 And you're right. They would laugh.

1:11:55 So somebody would say, you know, that, for example, they had a

1:11:58 medical professional testifying about Elizabeth's condition.

1:12:03 And he basically said there there was no other outcome here.

1:12:06 She was always going to die. And they laughed.

1:12:08 Yeah. It's.

1:12:09 Just disgusting. It's.

1:12:12 Absolutely disgusting. Revolting.

1:12:15 They believe that she's not dead.

1:12:17 Like I can't, I can't. I actually can't.

1:12:19 This is the and this is where I really just get the Oh my God, I

1:12:22 can't even Yeah, they so Jason ended up being sentenced to 14

1:12:27 1/2 years because he actually he got 13, but they added on his

1:12:33 actual his conviction. He got 14 years, but they added

1:12:36 on the six months suspended sentence from the 2019 case, as

1:12:42 it should be because he obviously they're connected.

1:12:47 So he, they were able to basically say, yeah, you've now

1:12:50 got to serve that. But he wasn't along with

1:12:53 Brendan, who were both charged with murder, they downgraded

1:12:57 that to manslaughter. Now this gets me that the judge

1:13:02 basically decided that they didn't believe that she would

1:13:07 die from this, therefore it's manslaughter, which I understand

1:13:13 that's what they I'm going to put inverted commas believe.

1:13:17 But if sane person would not, you can't actually convince me

1:13:24 that these people really believe this shit.

1:13:28 I don't. Know I can't either because we

1:13:31 don't. I can't imagine having such

1:13:34 extremist views. Our court system has to be based

1:13:36 on common sense, yeah. And and that's.

1:13:39 Exactly, and I think that common sense told you that she would

1:13:41 die from this for. Sure.

1:13:43 And Jason, if no one else, Jason knew that.

1:13:45 Exactly. Exactly.

1:13:47 He murdered her. Yeah, he murdered her.

1:13:50 He knew everything about her condition, her dosing.

1:13:53 Like Kerry never, never gave her insulin once.

1:13:56 No, Jason took full responsibility for that.

1:13:59 And therefore, I think, I mean, I can't even believe her mother

1:14:03 didn't even ever administer a dose of insulin to her diabetic

1:14:07 daughter. But the.

1:14:08 Fact that in that 2019. That responsibility, yeah.

1:14:10 And he fucking failed at it. Yeah.

1:14:13 He murdered her, yeah. He admitted with that in that

1:14:16 2019 that he knew that's what the outcome could have been.

1:14:20 What's the difference? He.

1:14:21 Even said I will never let this happen again.

1:14:23 Yeah, he knew what would happen if if, if they did this again,

1:14:27 he knew she would die. Yeah.

1:14:29 So to me, that's not manslaughter.

1:14:30 No, that's murder with intent. Absolutely, absolutely.

1:14:34 So look, I think the sentence that they got would bare

1:14:39 minimum, but it at least it was it was it wasn't nothing.

1:14:44 Yeah, Kerry was also charged with manslaughter.

1:14:47 Convicted of manslaughter. Sorry.

1:14:49 Yeah, she ended up serving a bit over well, sentenced to a bit

1:14:52 over 14 years because she then had a 15, actually 15.

1:14:56 Is it because they added on the rest of her sentence as well

1:14:59 that she didn't serve? Yeah, Brendan received 13 years,

1:15:04 and then we've got Loretta, Mary Stevens, nine years.

1:15:09 Zachary, the other son of the stories was given six years.

1:15:13 Samantha Showenfish was given six years.

1:15:16 Alexander Stevens, Sebastian Stevens, Andrea Stevens, Acacia

1:15:20 Stevens, Camilla Stevens, Therese Stevens, Kita Martin and

1:15:26 Lachlan Showenfish were all given seven years.

1:15:30 And they, they can all, they could all go for parole have

1:15:36 after having served 80% of their serve of their sentences.

1:15:40 Now apparently the word is that none of them intend to do that,

1:15:46 which great, OK. But their reason for that is

1:15:50 because they will not admit that, that, that they've done

1:15:54 anything wrong. So they, they are so staunch

1:15:58 that have they have come out and said that they, they will serve

1:16:02 every bit because it's all God's plan.

1:16:06 They are in prison right now and they're in together as in like

1:16:11 males and females separate. But all the females from this

1:16:14 cold are together and all the men are together and they

1:16:18 probably they are still, they are actively participating in

1:16:21 this religion to this day and all still believe that Elizabeth

1:16:29 will rise from the dead because she's not dead.

1:16:32 She's sleeping. Yeah, but she's dead.

1:16:35 Yep, she's dead. Because of you.

1:16:37 She's not coming back. Yeah.

1:16:39 She lost what could have been an incredible life.

1:16:44 I know that she had spoken to a school teacher of hers and said

1:16:48 that she wanted to be a doctor when she grew up because she

1:16:51 wanted to help other kids like her with diabetes.

1:16:54 Which is outright absolutely puts a kibosh on Brendan's

1:16:59 theory that she wanted this, because why would she say she

1:17:03 wants to help other children and be a doctor if she doesn't want

1:17:08 help? For sure.

1:17:10 And wants this. Yeah, it's, it's absolute.

1:17:14 It's a farce. It's absolute bullshit.

1:17:16 Yeah, she's an 8 year old. Yeah, with.

1:17:19 Dreams of doing, of helping others.

1:17:23 She loved Elizabeth, loved riding her bike, she loved the

1:17:27 color pink and purple. Dora the Explorer, what a you

1:17:32 know, she was such her smile, like she was just a really

1:17:35 gorgeous. Little gorgeous kid, love and

1:17:38 life and you. Just can't believe that she had

1:17:40 to suffer in her 8 short years so much when she didn't have to.

1:17:44 As I said, diabetes, type 1 diabetes is so treatable and so

1:17:49 well managed and well, you know, it's, I'm not saying it's easy.

1:17:53 No, it's not easy, no, but it is manageable.

1:17:59 She's been her life has been stolen.

1:18:01 Absolutely. And like, Jade is amazing and

1:18:06 she has taken on the other siblings.

1:18:09 Yeah. And I mean, that would be huge

1:18:10 because she would have to. I hope she's getting help in

1:18:14 this position. Of life, she's got a lot.

1:18:16 Of she's got a lot of support, but I mean, even just it's

1:18:18 psychological support for those children because one, they've

1:18:20 lost their sister and for any child, you know, having a lost a

1:18:23 sibling, that's, that is not easy to go through in the

1:18:26 circumstances that they've gone through.

1:18:28 But also then the layer of their own indoctrination into this

1:18:33 that needs to be undone, that needs to be all be undone and

1:18:35 they need to be unbrainwashed. So that's, that's huge to just

1:18:40 manage all of that with these. And they're not young in that,

1:18:43 you know, the, they're all minors at this point, but

1:18:47 they're not some of them, but they're they're old enough to

1:18:50 have their own opinions on things.

1:18:51 And, you know, so that would be very difficult, I think, and a

1:18:55 big challenge to take on. But Jade has also caused or also

1:19:00 raised a civil suit against the the basic child protection

1:19:05 because they let this family down.

1:19:09 They let Elizabeth down. It.

1:19:11 Didn't they? They really, really did.

1:19:13 And it, there has to be changes in the system.

1:19:17 It is not good enough to have a system that does not pick up on

1:19:22 these major things like someone exiting from prison on parole.

1:19:28 And that that doesn't flag a, a check in of minor sorts that

1:19:33 could say that things were not good.

1:19:35 That, that's, that's exactly where the, I mean, the other pit

1:19:37 point that, you know, really struck out to me of like another

1:19:41 intervention point was literally the Thursday before she passed,

1:19:45 which I think she passed on the Saturday, on the that Thursday,

1:19:48 Kerry had a parole visit due and Kerry just rang in and said I'm

1:19:53 not well. I'm not feeling good.

1:19:54 I'm not coming in. So like, yeah, cool.

1:19:56 Number. What the fuck that that's a well

1:19:58 that will come to you. Yeah.

1:20:00 And that because that household needed eyes on it.

1:20:03 For sure. I just oh.

1:20:06 It's the system. The systematic failures in this

1:20:10 case, yeah, are huge. And as you said, it need that,

1:20:19 that this can't happen again. No, it cannot happen again.

1:20:22 But unless I questioned. Too that OK, Elizabeth wouldn't

1:20:26 have been at school. Oh, it was school holidays.

1:20:29 School. Holidays.

1:20:29 It was school holidays. OK, all right, yeah, that isn't

1:20:32 prior to that. There has to have been prior to

1:20:33 that that though even there was the, the months building up of

1:20:36 mum being sent to jail, right School have got to be on a bit

1:20:39 alert of like what's going on here because we know what's

1:20:41 happened in the past. Surely they knew what had

1:20:44 happened in the past. I, I I don't.

1:20:47 Know there are systems that allow that.

1:20:48 They would know, OK. And if they weren't, then again,

1:20:52 it's not the failing of the system because there are avenues

1:20:55 for that school of knowing whether she had moved schools or

1:20:57 not. There are literal web sites that

1:21:01 you log into and see this stuff and get flags for it.

1:21:04 Yeah, you that that so they can't claim that they didn't

1:21:08 know stuff. That's on them as well.

1:21:09 Then why weren't they flagging things of like, hey, she's not,

1:21:13 I don't know, not looking well towards the end of term and

1:21:16 their mum's coming out of jail. Like what the fuck?

1:21:19 Yeah, look, I, I can't even, I can't even.

1:21:25 The fact that for me, it's the fact that child protection

1:21:30 didn't check. Like they didn't know that

1:21:34 Brendan had been sorry that Jason had been baptized into the

1:21:38 religion because they hadn't been out there to see it.

1:21:40 They didn't know that there was a change.

1:21:42 That's a massive change in circumstance.

1:21:44 People in his workplace and stuff were saying he's really

1:21:47 not in a good place. Yep.

1:21:50 It just frustrates me that there are literally not.

1:21:55 I'm pretty sure this is nationwide, not just Victoria,

1:21:58 but there's, you know, there are systems that allow communication

1:22:02 between various departments and why that wasn't being utilized

1:22:08 just is beyond me that these people should have, there should

1:22:10 have been parts of her life all communicating so that this was

1:22:15 avoided. Look, an inquest has been

1:22:21 announced, but a date hasn't been set yet.

1:22:24 Yeah. So look, it's a good thing that

1:22:26 they're going down that path. The fact they haven't set a date

1:22:29 yet, I think is disgusting. Yeah, this is a priority.

1:22:32 This has to be a priority. So I guess watch this space.

1:22:36 If there is an update, we'll bring it in a future episode.

1:22:38 Yeah, Oh, 'cause unfortunately there are many of these like

1:22:41 little cults operating in in Australia around the world, and

1:22:44 we don't know about them. I know Toowoomba is known for a

1:22:46 little bit of like some quaking that's like, you know, kind of

1:22:48 thing. But yes, there are pockets where

1:22:50 this is more likely than, you know, in our suburbia kind of

1:22:52 thing. But they're definitely around.

1:22:54 And so it's got to be more eyes on this.

1:22:56 Stuff, yeah. And and that's what this inquest

1:22:59 needs to investigate, how they do it, what they do with it.

1:23:02 Yeah, I understand people are have a right to do their own

1:23:04 thing and that's that stuff. But where it puts people in

1:23:07 danger, that's right. I mean, the minute that there's

1:23:09 a, there's a religion that states that they don't believe

1:23:13 in medical intervention, that has got to red flag where

1:23:17 there's children involved. I mean, again, if you're an

1:23:20 adult and you make that decision, that's kind of a bit

1:23:22 of a bit of a on you. Again, I don't like it, but what

1:23:26 are you gonna do? But when there's minors who

1:23:28 can't have that make that decision for themselves for

1:23:30 sure. No, that's, that's, that is not

1:23:33 even OK for a parent to make that decision of that child.

1:23:35 Like, no, of course not. We not, we do better because we

1:23:37 we I mean, I get it that the Bible's written in they they

1:23:41 pick, I just like cherry pick out of the Bible because.

1:23:43 Yeah, the Bible doesn't talk about using medical intervention

1:23:45 because it wasn't invented yet, you know, like we've moved with

1:23:50 the time. Yeah.

1:23:51 Like, yeah, maybe maybe if Jesus was around, maybe he would go.

1:23:55 Hey, yeah, Insulin's cool, dude. Yeah.

1:23:59 Take insulin. I don't like, you know, Yeah.

1:24:01 Come on. Yeah, yeah.

1:24:03 When we know better, we do better.

1:24:04 Yeah, that well, that, that's exactly right.

1:24:06 We've got these resources, We've got hospitals, we have the most,

1:24:09 the best medical, you know, staff, we've got nurses and

1:24:13 we've got science. Yeah.

1:24:14 Hey, what? Sorry.

1:24:15 What? You know, people who actually

1:24:18 give a shit and want the best for, you know, the best outcomes

1:24:21 for especially children like you think how hard people work to

1:24:25 make sure kids are OK. Yeah.

1:24:27 And in this instance, everyone's failed her.

1:24:29 Yeah. It's, it's just, I mean, there

1:24:32 were people who tried along the way, but, you know, we're bound

1:24:34 by certain where, you know, there was nowhere else for them

1:24:37 to go. But yeah, this outcome is

1:24:40 disgusting. I think I can't, I actually

1:24:43 can't believe that it happened in the country that we live.

1:24:45 In I think it's. Disgusting.

1:24:47 And it's, it's I it, as you said, it has to change.

1:24:55 Yeah, it really does. I.

1:24:57 Just I just also wanted to mention, yeah, Lachlan and

1:25:01 Samantha Shawn Fish, they had two children.

1:25:03 Yeah. They have said that they don't

1:25:06 ever want to see their children again.

1:25:09 Their children have are being raised between Samantha's

1:25:12 parents and Lachlan's parents. I mean, I mean, two minds about

1:25:19 that. I think it's better for their

1:25:21 children. And but for their children for

1:25:23 sure. But can you?

1:25:24 Can you actually? How do you do?

1:25:26 How? I don't know.

1:25:27 OK. One way to make yourself an

1:25:31 absolute piece of shit. Yeah.

1:25:33 Like. How?

1:25:34 How? How?

1:25:35 Do you just go? Nothing done like again, that's

1:25:38 where. I just can't come at this as

1:25:40 being a religion. Where are your core values and

1:25:42 beliefs? Like really centered here.

1:25:45 Community and all of that sort of stuff which.

1:25:48 Is. What is their outcome of that?

1:25:49 It's like they've taken, I'm like you.

1:25:52 I don't believe in God. I'm not a religious person, but

1:25:56 I can see value in some of the beliefs of and some of the

1:26:02 values of certain faiths and community, kindness, family,

1:26:09 being together. Yeah, all of that.

1:26:11 They fucked that all off. Yeah, they.

1:26:13 Literally removed all that stuff that you can go, yeah, that's.

1:26:17 Nice. Yeah, and have just picked.

1:26:20 The crap. The crap and run and run with it

1:26:24 to the OH. Yeah, extreme is the only way

1:26:26 the. Worst word that just social and

1:26:28 nature extremism. Yeah.

1:26:31 Oh, I just. I just can't.

1:26:33 I just can't. This poor little girl.

1:26:36 It's just shit, yeah. Did you have anything else you

1:26:39 wanted to add? I don't think so.

1:26:40 Just that, oh, I mean, go Jade. I really am impressed with her

1:26:45 and she's amazing. And yeah, stick, stick at it.

1:26:49 Yeah, You're doing the right thing and you're just

1:26:50 incredible. Yeah.

1:26:51 She she is amazing, yeah. And thank God those other kids

1:26:54 have her. Oh, they're very lucky.

1:26:57 And I hope that they, they know that.

1:26:58 I hope they see that. Because she, yeah, Jade is.

1:27:02 Yeah. Hero.

1:27:03 Yeah. Yeah.

1:27:05 All right, let's leave that one there for sure.

1:27:07 Next week we're actually, this is on a completely different

1:27:11 plane. Thank God.

1:27:13 Yeah, but next week we're actually bringing you the Lawyer

1:27:16 X case at Nicola Gobbo. Oh, this is a, Oh yeah, spicy

1:27:21 one. So stay tuned for that.

1:27:25 And thank you again for joining us for another week.

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1:27:53 Crime besties. Bye.