Episode 60 - Jamie and Jennifer Faith

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties, to episode 60 of your show of our show. Not your show, our show. It's everyone's show. Yeah, it's everyone. We are for the people. Yeah. Well, welcome anyway. How have you been this week, Meg? What's been going on? Oh. Just, you know, the the usual roundabouts and circles that we do in the week. Yeah. No, been a better week than last week at least. Yes. How are you? Same for you. Yeah, same for us. We had Ollie had some sport that was cancelled this week through because due to weather the.

0:48 Weather's been. Shocking bad. Lots of it was being really windy, yes, and lots of rain predicted. So they actually cancelled 5-6 Sport for this week, right? I feel like that was just one less thing I had to worry about then. So yeah, it's all done and dusted for. Well, I think they're gonna try and run it again next term, but we'll see what happens there. See if they fit it into the craziness of then we downhill run. Oh, it's crazy, I was saying to one of my colleagues yesterday. I actually can't believe next week is September.

1:19 Oh. That just doesn't seem right. I know. I actually somebody said to me for stuff at work and I said, and my answer was that that would happen in October. And in my mind that was so far away. And they went and then their response to me was, oh, OK, so soon. And I'm like, no. And then we told it was. Only like 5 weeks away. Yeah, I better. Do that then. So it's ready for October and I said I'd have it ready for. It's just mental. Yeah, yeah. The year is just. Someone was saying once you get into the BER months, so September, October, November, you're definitely down.

1:55 Just a downhill run to Christmas and it's. True. Where did I recently read somewhere said like how many weeks it was to Christmas already and I I actually looked at it went oh fuck off. I don't I don't wanna hear it. No, I do not wanna know this. Yeah, my kids decided this week was the week to start their Christmas lists. Oh, well, people, you know my excuse? Every time they're like, oh, can I get this? Yeah, she'll put it on your Christmas list. Maybe you'll get it for Christmas. I say that from January onwards.

2:23 So now they've decided they need to start the list so they don't forget, yes, the things that they want. Oh. Well, you know, you clearly want it so much. If you forget it exactly. I know kids these days don't know how good they've got it. I remember when we were kids, I'd be, I'd have my one thing that I was, you know, absolutely desperate for. Yeah, and you were? Desperate for, desperate for it. Yeah, my, I remember when I was a little girl, I wanted this tap dancing doll. Oh my God, So badly. Where you you moved her arms?

2:50 She clicked her arms and she tap danced. Oh, I never wanted anything. Never. Heard of this in my life. I would have been. I feel like I would have been in prep. Wow. Yeah, it was. Do you want a My Child or a Cabbage Patch doll like everyone else? No, I actually didn't know. Well, I did want was the my child the one that was pregnant and had the babies? Which one was? That my the my child had like like really soft, like fluffy on my skin, like Swedish. Oh no, no, I never wanted one of those. What was the one that came with and you could choose if you wanted it to be pretty.

3:28 I know Barbie had a version of it, but then there was a doll version of it as well. That big? Doll person, I have to admit, yeah, I hated Barbie. I hated Barbie. Had the biggest Barbie kit. Like I had everything known to man in Barbie. My godfather bought me Barbie, Barbie, everything. And I hated Barbie. Literally friends would come over to play and be like, desperate to play with my Barbie, and I'd be like, yeah, sure, whatever. I'm going to go play with my brothers, yeah. She's not that into bed, No.

3:56 Oh, fair enough. Yeah. What? As a kid, do you remember what you would like your most desired Christmas gift was?

4:07 No, I remember wanting a surfboard for one year but like. No, nothing stands out. I also really wanted inline roller blades. My 1 you. Tell me something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't because I will. I used them once. We went on a trip to Sydney, actually went to Queensland, but stopped off in Sydney. And so we hired inline skates and we were inline skating along the boardwalk, whatever along the Esplanade. And, and I was so cool on them that I was like, oh, well, I've got this. Within 5 seconds I will be able to jump up off of the from the road onto the curb, right?

4:46 Oh yeah. Because you can after 5 seconds of using these things. And I literally ate from that moment. I was like, it was the inline skates fault, not mine. Like entirely. They're evil. Who would ever want to use those, Right? Right. So no, I did not want a pair of those. OK, right. OK. Yep, Yep, Yep. Noted. Yeah, no inline skates for you. Those evil things. Were evil.

5:16 Yep. And then the other thing that my brother and I really, we were so desperate for, it was an Atari. Oh yes, we got it. Oh my God, that was like that. I still remember it. I still remember it. The first. Game on the. So good. I still remember doing the bowling. That was the first game we played on it. Oh yes, so good. Amazing. Yeah. Oh God, the simple life I know. Right. We didn't want for much. I mean, in Atari that was pretty extravagant, probably for the 80s. For the 80s, yeah. Italy, Yeah, yeah.

5:49 Anyway, now the other big news to happen this week the the engagement of this century, basically. Yes, I've heard the best quote too, the other day from a guy about all this shit. I love this. He goes. So the massive engagement is happening, all this sort of thing. Taylor Swift, Travers, Kelsey. Oh, my God. Chef's kiss. Yeah. And this guy goes, how is it that Taylor Swift can turn the most neurotypical female into the most autistic person in the world? Like, it's actually true. Like, you know, like that third line of her song of this album means this and that debunks all these theories about that.

6:30 And we can all pull one out somewhere. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that is so true. I love. A lot of speculation online. Everyone's like, who's she going to ask to be a bridesmaid? Well, this is it. I mean, OK, well, big question. Yep. When do you actually think they got engaged? Is this fresh off the you know? So according to Travis's dad, so did you see the interview with Travis's mum, which was I think just on the weekend? So they got in, they announced it on the Tuesday. Yeah, on the weekend. Travis Kelsey's mum bloody love that woman.

7:04 And you can just tell like she's just, you know, she's just a genuine lovely person. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe needs a bit of media training because. Or not really, let's be honest. But to be fair, like she didn't expect her son to be marrying the greatest pop star of our time. No, did she? So. But anyway. And they were like, oh, you seem really happy. And she's like, yeah, we're really happy, you know, because Travis has really settled and, you know, he's made some decisions. And everyone apparently was like, oh, my God, Oh, my God, they're gonna get engaged.

7:36 Yeah, right. And then I wonder whether that was the catalyst, this interview with her to announce. And I don't know, but according to the dad, they got engaged about two weeks ago. Right, Yeah, Well, okay, so a sleuth last night put on Instagram that if you watch the podcast, right, and she's wearing the same watch, yes, as she is in the engagement photos and during the podcast, there's a freeze frame of her watch saying 3:00 PM, right? OK. And then in the photo shoot, you can see her watch and it reads 5:00 PM.

8:09 So everyone's thinking that potentially they were filmed, they filmed the podcast and then went and did the engagement photos. So. She I went and did the photos. So they were already engaged. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. I love that. Yeah, I do love that. Yes. I really do too. And even she's, she's just gorgeous. They're gorgeous. I love it. Love. It love it because, you know, because there's all these little things that people were pulling out of the podcast of like on the shelf behind them was a Pinocchio thing.

8:38 On the back of his neck was some star sticker. I didn't see like there was that he leant forward and he could see this little star sticker on the back of his neck and what? And everyone's like, no, well, no one knows. I think I was like predicting like kind of going, what does this mean? There's someone's lying and what does the star mean? Like. Crazy. Yeah, there's so many theories. Because she uses Easter eggs all the time. That's it. Where are they and what are they? She's. She's she's built this up herself.

9:01 She has. She's done it to herself. Yeah. I mean, good on Earth. What an amazing, incredible. Me too, me too, looking forward to seeing some wedding pics. And Selena Gomez got to met getting married soon with all The Bachelorette and bachelor parties going on there too. For sure Taylor will be there. Absolutely. All right, moving on. Sorry to all the people who aren't into who aren't Swifties. I might have a Carl story for the people to say if you want to go there all. Right, hurry up. Go all. Right.

9:31 So obviously our two have been talking at school and obviously your family have been through a tragedy with a family pet, which, you know, obviously that's been a topic of conversation. I love it. Like that's the way they process these things and it's a really great for them to do that. And so that's been coming home a little bit with my son. And I got asked the other day, so when Kyle dies will I be able to cremate him?

9:59 Oh God, can you? I was.

10:05 Like don't. No, no, don't. No. I wouldn't think so that that's a thing you would be able to do. You're not. Going to want to pay OK, the whole the whole thing right, even for for dogs. I mean, it's it's interesting because so when you go for these cremations, there's so many options, right? I haven't been through this before because the only other time I've lost a pet, it's been our family pet and my mom and dad have obviously dealt with it. I haven't known any differently. So when the options were presented to us.

10:40 Well, I you know. What though? It actually wasn't as expensive as I thought. OK, plus. It's more the canister. Yeah, that's right. And you can go. You can go to the ends of the earth. Yeah, because I even got asked because if I can cremate him, can I put something in like a little jewellery thing and wear it? Yeah, not into that. No. No shade on somebody who wants to do that, but no. Well, it's one thing for like a person or very family Petland dog. Axolotl. Oh, he wants to put an axolotl around his neck, Kyle around his.

11:18 Neck ashes in a. Oh fuck. Oh God, no. So just so you know as well, there's an option to either do a group cremation where you they obviously put multiple animals in together and then I guess you just get like a bit of the ashes that are mixed with other. Ashes. Animals. Cheap other people's animals. That's a cheap way to for me wait. Hang on. I'm sorry, what? Yep. No, you're getting other people's. Well, yeah, and I guess you would maybe do that if you weren't going to get the ashes back as well.

11:52 I don't know. But if or you can or you can get the single, the single pet cremation and then you get your pet's ashes back and. I thought that was the only option. No, and the most. Why would you need someone else's? Well I don't, I don't know because it's heaps cheaper. Yeah, but what? But OK, I don't understand I feel. Like you, I feel like you would maybe choose that option if you didn't want the ashes back. OK, maybe. Right, but why would OK. But the funniest thing was, so we obviously chose the single cremation.

12:30 Yeah. But we've got this like really proxy certificate that someone had like obviously written in Word in a Word document that was like we cremated Luna on and it's like a single pet cremation. No, I've got this beautiful like plaque thing and we didn't get a written document. Oh, we got. Actually, we did get a written document. We did get a written document. Yeah, that's, that's all. Yeah, yeah. Oh God, okay. Oh wow. Crazy. So you'll have to. I don't know, do you really want to spend that much?

13:06 For you to well, I just said to him that's just not even a thing. You can't because he's wet. Like because he's. Wet. Exactly was all I could come up yeah and so yeah, anyway, so the question because then he got really upset like crying like yeah, so but. Don't they? We feel like ages. I said, well, that's what I said to him, so there's no need to get upset because he is going to live forever. Like I know I'm going to be here for a long time with this thing. So I said just enjoy all the years you get with him.

13:33 And this is something you worry about like when you're like 18. Yeah, like you're going to be like that old. But before you need to actually even contemplate this. Yeah. Because then then I said to him and he goes, well, what would we do then if we can't cremate him? And I'm like, well, we'd we'd find a really nice burial spot for him. Like the? Toilet you can't wash an excellent dad he's. Too money big.

13:59 You need a real good pig. Oh no, I'm not even gonna go.

14:05 Oh my God. Yeah, but then then he said, well, can I bury? And he's like, where can I bury him? I'm like, we would find a nice spot. And he's like, like, like maybe a box next to my bed because that's because we have another. We have my pets on my bedside table but it's cremated like. Ashes. Ashes. And they're in a sealed container body that's like. No, mate, you can't do that. You cannot do that. It'll smell pretty bad. It'll pretty. Stink. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, all the conversations that this has sparked, which I just, I adore their naivety in like and their innocence in processing this kind of information.

14:38 Yeah, it's. Just yeah. But yeah, I'm sorry, the acts a lot like being cremated. Oh. No, no, no, no, sorry. He can. He can have a nice burial spot somewhere in, yeah, the backyard where Bruce can't take.

14:55 Him. Oh God, Yep, Yep. Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep. OK, alright, let's get on to shout outs for today. I'm yes done talking about Kyle. Oh, tell me about it. All right, so we have 4 new Patreons this week. We've got Katrina Jenner, Kate from Gather, and so Tegan and Peter, Peter, Nicole, McKenzie. So thank you guys very, very much for supporting us over on Patreon. We have released our first episode there now. Yeah. And we are desperate for you guys to let us know what you want over there. We're still sort of figuring out how it's going to look and what it's going to look like, and we're really happy to be guided by our Patreons.

15:33 So please let us know what it is that you would like we. Can get super loose over there loose.

15:41 Because it's behind a paywall and that everyone can have access to it. Yeah, we absolutely can. Come join. Then we have another shout out for Asvinda, who contacted us through Instagram. Instagram. Yeah. And she purchased a new car and. Congratulations. Yeah, congratulations. Yeah, Love that for you. And the dealer was helping her set up her Apple Car play. And apparently she said, oh, well, I need to make sure I can listen to this podcast on there. And he was like, oh, I've seen this. I've had to set this up for other people.

16:14 And I'm like, what it's like, for real? So apparently he's gonna start listening too. So car dealership man, if you are listening to this, welcome. Mm hmm. Welcome, welcome and love it that everyone's setting it up on their CarPlay to listen. Blows my mind. Blows my mind. We are taking over the world I love. This aren't we? Just never. Thought this was possible. Well, did we? No, no, no.

16:42 Yeah, no. All right, let's get into today's case, shall we? Let's talking today about the case of Jamie Faith Bat shit crazy, bat shit fucking crazy. It's it's horrible because somebody was murdered, but this has, I've been, this is. Soap opera kind of shit. Is it? Is if it wasn't, if it wasn't real life, it would be a brilliant movie. Like it's the the story lot line of this is just twists and turns and. Flips flops back, back and forth. Yeah, You know, you find out one thing, you think something, then you think something else, and then you know, at the end they get to the bottom of it.

17:20 But it's just mental. Oh, completely. I was gripped the entire. Time of researching this thing. Actually, I've actually enjoyed researching this thing. I haven't had AI mean I I really feel for the fact. That this is someone who's real. This is somebody who's. Real. And it's, it's horrific. And I feel for everybody who knew him and and loved him. Yeah. Fuck me, it's captivating, so let's get into it. Let's get into. It James or Jamie Faith Junior was born on the 11th of May in 1971 in Madison, WI.

17:52 He was, by all accounts, a very, very lovely man. He. He completed a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science in 1994 from the University of Wisconsin in Whitewater. And he actually was very, very good at his job, so much so that he was appointed as the technology director at American Airlines in and it was in Dallas, TX. So he's moved from Wisconsin to Texas to take on this position. Yeah. And he had a staff of, I think it was like 50 or 60 people reporting to him. So this was a big role. Oh, absolutely.

18:31 And he even national company take on students from the Southern Methodist University locally and mentor them as well in in this. He was such a generous person in his, you know, nature of like that to, you know, mentor these people at the beginning of their careers and in in this industry, which is just, he was just, yeah, I'm incredible bloke really. Lovely guy. I think he was quite nerdy and yes. And so much so that he'd kind of gone throughout his life and hadn't really had many serious relationships.

18:58 I think he was very reserved and quite shy, even though he excelled in his work life. I think his personal life or didn't suffer. But he he just, I don't know that he had the confidence to kind of like put himself out there. Yeah, he'd had relationships, but nothing that was too serious. And friends say that he kind of got to a point in his early 30s where he was like, I just don't know that marriage, kids, all of that. Sort of stuff, just not for. Me, yeah. And he was happy with that, happy to go along.

19:25 He was really fulfilled in his life. Otherwise, as you said, he was mentoring young kids or young adults. Yeah, and really loved his job. He was very, very well liked by his employees. So he at what year was that in? 20/11/2012 he met, he was actually set up on a blind date by mutual friends with a woman by the name of Jennifer Lynn. Oh, what was her maiden name? Oh, I can't remember. Oh, Schmitz was her maiden name. Sorry. And they hit it off immediately. They really had a lot in common. They were both Green Bay Packers fans.

20:05 They both loved travel, food and wine. And they were just. Compatible immediately, and apparently they really fell quite deeply in love with one another. They just, the conversation apparently, was just endless. They were, yeah, really, really connected immediately. Yeah, Jennifer had been married twice previously and divorced twice. Her first husband was the father of her only child. And he actually said he didn't want children at all. So that was where that marriage break broke down, when she fell pregnant.

20:36 And he was like, no, no, no, that's not what I was wanting. So according to to where that's what ended that relationship. And so she was then pregnant and no longer with him. Yeah. We'll get to more details about that relationship a little bit later on. Her second marriage only lasted about nine months as well. So there was, they were very short lived. Yeah, marriages. But as I said, they married, Jennifer and Jamie married in 2012 and and by all accounts they were doing very well for themselves.

21:06 So Jamie worked for American Airlines in this sort of very high up position, director of IT like so. You've been earning decent money, that's for sure. So was Jennifer. She was a speech pathologist. She was very well regarded in her industry and had a lot of experience as. Well, yeah, well, she was managing like a rehab center like kind of thing. So she was, you know, in that managerial role as well. So earning good money. Yeah. Although she did become quite I'll at a point where I mean her, she was, I think she, she had diabetes and was in a bit of a, you know, crisis of health kind of situation.

21:39 And they they were financially stable enough for her to say, for them to say, look, take time off of working. So that actually coincided as well. So this was in 2020 when this yeah took place. And so her being able to take the time off work actually coincided with people kind of needing to step down during the pandemic anyway, because obviously in a rehab centre, there's not as much necessarily going on. Yeah. And so they were looking for people to step down for a time and that she kind of took that opportunity.

22:07 And she wasn't like forgoing what she could in her career by doing it. It was a good, it was good timing. And that she would just step away with the idea that she'll step back in again, you know, down the track when she was in a better way in with her health. When the pandemic was over 30 years later. You should mention too, obviously, that Jennifer's daughter, Amber, who at the time when she met Jamie was 8 years of age, and Jamie and Amber just got along brilliantly. Like he really took her on as his own.

22:34 But when and when she turned 18, he actually adopted her officially. So by the time we get to this point in that story, I think Amber is around about 2223. Yeah, Yeah. And so but so at this stage, like she's adopted officially by Jamie and he's her father, but she had been raised as if he was hers anyway from the age of 8, pretty much. So yeah, really, really loving relationship between the two of them. Yeah, he loved her so much. Yeah, so, so much. And you can tell, like on his Instagram profile, there's pictures of him and her.

23:05 He was very dedicated as a father and for somebody who obviously he'd thought that that wasn't necessarily going to be his path in life, he really embraced it when Amber came into his life. Good on him, people. The world needs more men like Jamie. This absolutely. I completely agree. Like, yeah, he just seems like they one of these genuine humans that you just wanna you want in your life. Yeah, yeah. So should we get to the day of the incident? Yeah. Well more more really importantly at this point I think we we mentioned one other member of the family.

23:34 It's very, very important person. Well, member of the family is Maggie. They're Bernese mountain dog. So. Beautiful. Not biased at all. Not at all. And you know what? It's kind of the clincher for me that says that Jamie was a brilliant person. Yeah. Because if you are in a Bernese Mountain Dog, you must be a legend of a person. Don't know why I would say that. Yeah, yes. So yeah, Maggie, absolutely beautiful, beautiful little girl. Well, she was little, not little Giant. Beautiful giant girl, but she was.

24:03 She was pretty young, wasn't? She, yeah, she was pretty young, actually. Yeah, gorgeous little. Thing it's a watch the videos of of her with Jamie playing and stuff and it's just beautiful. And they're, they're routine. So we're we're talking 2020. And this incident took place on the 9th of October in 2020. So the world had been shut down since March. Yeah. And a lot of people were working from home and so much, including Jamie. Including Jamie. Yeah. And they would take Maggie for a walk at about 7:30 every morning and, you know, get her out and about, give her a walk for the day, come home, and he'd start his job for the day.

24:36 And as we mentioned, Jennifer wasn't working, so we'll get to what she would spend her days doing in a minute. Yeah. So at about 7:30 AM on the 9th of October in 2020, Jamie and Jennifer, as they did most days, left their home and we're taking Maggie for a walk. Yep, This is in captured on Ring camera where you see Jennifer walking with Maggie on the lead and she leaves the fair house first and then just behind her, you know, maybe 2-3 meters is, is Jamie walking out And then they head off on their walk and that's the last thing you see on the camera as they head around the front of their yard.

25:12 Yeah. Where? So yeah, they're sort of out of view of out of the time this happens. Yeah. They they live in a neighborhood called Oak Cliff in Dallas, which is a really lovely neighborhood. And because of the pandemic, there were so many people working from home at home at the time. A masked gunman ambushed the couple as they were walking along the footpath literally moments after they left the house. He came up from behind of Jamie. So Jennifer was further back, further ahead again from where the gunman was coming from.

25:44 So just to give perspective of where she was in relation to this. But he did come at Jamie front on. So he ended up coming around being front on with Jamie, Yeah. And shot him three times in the chest first, yeah. Then three times in the head and a final shot to the groin. Jennifer's hands were then duct taped and her jewelry. He the the assailant tried to take her wedding ring off, but it kind of got stuck halfway down her finger. He did manage to get Jamie's wedding band off of him. He did hit hit Jennifer a few times around the head as well before a neighbor in the next door neighbor who heard obviously her screaming at this.

26:23 She absolutely was screaming very loudly. And you can again hear that on various cameras from people's other people as well who around the neighbourhood's got cameras. Yeah. So you can hear the her screaming and the gunshots everything. The neighbor next door hears this and comes he first he heard the gunshots and was like a ducked as you know, I guess in America as you would like somehow, yeah built to do. We're not probably I don't know. I don't know how I'd react because I've never heard it kind of stuff, whereas I think they're more used to it.

26:47 I don't know which is awful. Or they know what to. Do they know what to do? Yeah. He practiced at school. So you know. Yeah. Yeah. Because so he sort of. Yeah. Ducked in terms of the gunshots and then heard the screaming and went, oh, gosh, this is nearby. This is out the front. I need to go. And, you know, this is happening right now. Went out to see what was going on and he saw this person who obviously then clocked him as well. And he was made eye contact. Yeah, so he did. They did. Looked at each other as he was attacking Jennifer, which that seemed to interrupt what he was doing there, and he ran to a car.

27:21 So it was a big, big black Ute a Nissan. A Nissan Titan pickup truck with the chattered Jewel cab. So, yeah, 4 door. Yes. Giant big truck, pickup, pickup truck, chicks. And it had a a distinctive tea decal on the back, which Jennifer, when she was interviewed by the police, she said that it was a Texas Rangers baseball team logo. Yeah. That's what she thought it was what it looked like, Yeah. So this car then drives off. Now it drives off slowly, it doesn't speed away. It's very controlled, drives us slowly.

27:55 And you and they, the police are able to pick this car up for some distance and see him driving and he hits a freeway and they lose him, unfortunately on that. Somewhere around Arkansas. Yeah, so they, they know he's travelling a distance. Yeah, well, this is so. But the cops did arrive quite quickly. But in terms of that car, they weren't able to track it at the actual time with a fault with a car following him. This is all by camera after the fact that they were able to pick up. That's right where he was travelling.

28:23 And none of the CCTV cameras were able to get a clear picture of the number plate, so they weren't able to see who the car was registered to or. Anything like that? Yeah. So Jamie died at the scene immediately, basically. Apparently the three chest shots did not kill him. It was the headshot that killed him, the first headshot that killed him. So then if you think about it, those extra shots in terms of the other two to his head and then that final one to his groin, that's overkill. Oh, that's exactly what the police.

28:54 Called it, yeah, very, very personal. Like to shoot somebody in the groin after, you know, they're dead. Yeah, that's it. That's. Weird. And the police immediately are like, this seems more personal than like a robbery gone wrong in that they was, you know, obviously that his wedding ring was taken in an attempt to take Jennifer's that, you know, that yeah, that was that looked like robbery gone wrong. But it's not because it's the the overkill. And then also the fact that there was a shock to the groin really indicated like some sort of motivation in terms of a sexual act of some sort.

29:25 So. Something very, very personal. Yeah, very personal in this. And so there was a number of question marks over what has gone on here, who this this perpetrator was. Yeah, should say too. Look, obviously Dallas is has a high had a high crime rate at this time, particularly around the pandemic. That year from January to October, there had been 200 murders in Dallas. This particular area, though was a very safe area. So it wasn't like this was going on specifically in this area, but there were, you know, gun shots fired.

29:59 Serial killer around at the time, yeah. And you know, the thoughts were maybe he'd come into this neighborhood because apparently he drove this serial killer did drive a black pickup truck had been seen. He drive drove a Chevy though, a Chevy pickup truck and he had actually been a potential suspect, yes. Well, Jennifer really actually pushed the police to to look into that more and they really didn't. They didn't see it. They didn't fit, they didn't think it fitted. But she was pretty keen for them to look into that and that she was quite upset that they didn't look more into it.

30:31 At the time. She had like a group chat that she started with some friends to keep them updated on what was happening with the police cases and just in general around Jamie and everything. And in that group chat, she had put some comments in there around how she was frustrated by the police not following up and looking at that more interesting. Yeah, it is interesting. So basically in those very early stages, the police are trying to figure out, OK what? Who would want to murder Jamie? What's been going on in his life?

31:01 Yeah. And so they contact his employer and they discovered that Jamie had had to make 20 people redundant due to the pandemic with in the preceding sort of two months, I think it was to the day of his death. So they actually went and interviewed all twenty of those people. And they found that they had not one of them held any animosity over Jamie regarding that. They knew it's because of the pandemic. It wasn't personal. Apparently, Jamie agonized over having to pick 20 people to make redundant.

31:33 I mean, that's one of the horrible things about being in these senior positions. Yeah. And he didn't want to pick because he thought all of his team members were valuable. But, you know, this is the way it is. Business is business. And so, and they all felt that way. They all went, no, we know it's not him when, yeah, we don't hold him personally responsible for this. So yeah, they were pretty much excluded, you know, early on in the piece by the time they had the chance to interview. Absolutely.

31:58 And in the very first interview that Jennifer does on the day of the of the incident, they pull her in quickly, like so because she wasn't overly injured, she got checked out by people at the hospital and those sorts of things. But they did bring her in for an interview on that very first day, which, you know, that's traumatic. And they were very, very gentle with her and going through that process with that first interview. And she they did question her around. Are there people that you know, that you've had arguments with of any kind or anything that anything that she knew and she was very like, no, like there's just no one that we live this kind of lifestyle, which they did.

32:29 They were, they were the people in the neighborhood who gave their neighbors keys to their backyard to use their pool. You know, in the summer. They were the they, they held Thursday night game night like, and they would have played video games with the with neighbors. They very much had this very friendly neighborhood style lifestyle. There was 1 neighbor they said that was further down the street that had a dog they'd had a run in with in terms of this dog that barked constantly. And the dog was actually removed and then it was returned And they had had a bit of altercation around, you know, with this neighbor but never got serious of any point.

33:04 And the only other thing that she could think of of being any negative interactions with people was that they had lent money to quite a few neighbors as well over time. And one in particular, she'd recently had a payment from them of $400. And in doing that, I think the partner had found out that they, the other partner had borrowed money and that had caused a bit of conflict, but not necessarily with the faiths for doing that, no. So she had. Conflict between the. Between the couple, yeah. But yeah, so she was very forthcoming in that there was really, there's only things she was like really trying to clutch, clutching at straws to find, you know, people that could be upset with Jamie.

33:42 There just wasn't anyone in his life that he would be upset with him because he was a genuinely good guy. Yeah. So she was at a loss at this point. At this point the police asked if they could have a look at her phone and she sort of semi reluctantly handed it over. She did hand it over though. Yep, Yep. And they looked into it and I don't know, they just sort of. So we'll notice that there was nothing. Well, it looked like it had been recently. Factory recently only because So what they found was they found nothing other they went right right right back and found a message to her girlfriend named Tina and this the message read.

34:25 So I have no idea when I'm going to be able to talk to you over the phone, but I'm pretty much having a full blown emotional affair and Jamie knows it. And then the next message is this guy I dated in high school and college, we broke up because I was finishing school and after he got out of basic training, he was deployed to South Korea. So that's who it is that she's having this emotional affair with. And then the next message is that he ended up going special forces and served 26 years, just retired and found me.

34:57 We are going to get married at the, we were going to get married at the time. So the cops see this message, but they can't find any communication between this person with, with Jennifer on her phone. So that makes them go, well, where are these messages? Because if they, if it was genuinely nothing that you'd see a connection of other messages on her phone and they were when they were looking at their phone, the phone, they can see what's being deleted. Like you delete something, you haven't really deleted it.

35:28 But in her deleted stuff, it wasn't there either. So if you've like just gone, Oh yeah. If you're one of those people who's a neat freak in your phone, which I have to admit I am, I can't stand seeing a red number on my phone already. That's shit that you delete messages, you know, kind of thing. And but it doesn't actually, it's not gone gone. However, they couldn't find it in there either. So that was indicating that factory reset had occurred, which then that's a whole nother level. Like who does that?

35:53 Who does that without wanting to cover something up 100%. So they, that's what triggered them to then look into who this person was. So they went back into who her relationships were with and yeah, found it. There was this guy Darren, that she had been dating, obviously, as she said back in high school. They went to prom together in 1990. Yes. Have you seen the? Photo Yeah, I love her dress so 1990 so. 80s, nineties, and she's wearing this red dress and he's wearing a matching red tie. That was totally the thing.

36:26 Like I feel like that was even the thing into the early 2000s. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. But gorgeous. So yeah, this too. And they dated right through. Like actually they met doing jazz band and we're friends for quite some time before they connected more so. So it wasn't until they went on to a trip to Europe with school and had their first kiss under the Eiffel Tower. How romantic. Romantic. Yeah, so they were, they then dated right through for the from high school into college and three years into college.

37:01 There's a conflicting information of what I can find here in terms of She said in her police interview that she met who then became her first husband, and that that's kind of what broke them up. But there's other places where I found other different information to that. So my. Understanding of that, and again, it's hard when you find conflicting information what to know what's true. But the other thing is that he decided that he wanted to enlist in the military because his father had served. Yeah.

37:35 And that was something that was really calling him, something he really wanted to do. And Jennifer didn't want to be a military wife. She didn't want to be moving around. She wanted to establish herself. And so they they parted ways amicably. Yes. But because of the fact that he's then gone off to South Korea, we're talking. This is in the time before, really, everyone had ready access to emails and all of that sort of thing. Yeah. And he ended up becoming like an SAS, like a special. Special Force Forces soldier, Yeah.

38:04 And he worked, he was in the military for 26 years, so. He was actually a medic, so he was special forces medic is what he became. So they lost contact? Yeah, entirely. All of that, they hadn't had any contact basically since they turned. Away. I think literally he finished his. What do you call it? Like initial training and then was deployed pretty much immediately to South Korea. So from that point on, from him leaving to South Korea, they had no further communication from that point. So he, he was in the military as a, as a medic until for 26 years he was in in there.

38:37 He did some incredible things. In that time. He was deployed 6 times to Iraq or Afghanistan. He was also critically injured in a an accident where there was a a roadside IED that blew up a Humvee that he was in. There was 23 people in this vehicle and only 19 survived No 19. Died. Sorry, only four survived, 19 died, Sorry, the other way around. So the four of them that survived, he was obviously one of them being the, he was being the medic. He was the one who kept them all alive, that we're alive.

39:16 And he also treated all those that were dying too. So incredibly compassionate, like, and I think it took like 48 hours or something for them to be evacuated from that. So the so apparently in that, in that thing in the in the ID explosion, there was one person who was absolutely critically, critically injured and basically on deaths door and he kept him alive for 48 hours until they were rescued. On his own. All on his own, yeah, amazing. And I mean, I'm dare say he would have he well, he certainly had injuries himself as well-being that he won traumatic, he had a traumatic brain injury that he was later on later diagnosed from that incident.

39:54 Not at the time, he wasn't diagnosed with that. And of course post traumatic stress disorder. So as you could just imagine, but the, the traumatic brain injury became an issue for him later. And it's actually what he ended up being medically discharged because of that. Yeah, which rightly so. So he returned home. After that, after being medically discharged, which was still quite a number of years after the actual incident. It was actually, let's have a look. It was actually nearly 15 years later.

40:24 Yeah, crazy. So he he still continued. Yeah, doing a lot of this work. So amazing what he went through and a huge amounts of respect for that. Absolutely. He was awarded a Purple Heart and two Bronze Star for for his efforts during that IED incident. So. And very, very well deserved, yeah. So returning from there, he obviously had a wife and kids. Here he had two. Daughters and two stepdaughters, I believe. Yeah. And they, so they reunited, obviously, and had, you know, they were together. But with the issues that he was having with this traumatic brain injury, it really led to the end of that marriage.

41:04 Yeah. So he ended up basically being divorced and quite isolated. He wasn't in a good way, you know, like trying to work in a regular job didn't really fit for him either with this this injury. I think two of his daughters lived with him at this time as well. So yeah, 2018, his marriage ended and by 2020, he was living in Tennessee. So with his two daughters in a kind of remote farm sort of house. Yeah, he had quite a bit of. Yeah, yeah, He did own that with a mortgage, but he wasn't being able to keep up with those payments, no.

41:38 Because of the fact, I mean, I feel like this was probably compounded by the pandemic as well, yeah, because he wasn't really holding down jobs. He was doing lots of odd jobs to kind of make ends meet. And he he had nothing really permanent that he was doing. So I feel like a lot of people probably came unstuck in the same way during the pandemic and had similar employment because he had nothing to fall back on. And so I think he was something like 120 days in arrears on his mortgage by the time this incident took place.

42:07 So he was really feeling it. His water had been shut off because he hadn't paid his water bills. And I believe his electricity was not that far behind. So he wasn't in a good way. His house was in an absolute state of disrepair. Yeah, this is going a little bit ahead now, but when there were reports of what was found inside his house, and apparently the house was putrid, it was absolute. Apparently the officer who reported this said they'd never seen anything like it. The house was dilapidated, filthy, completely disorganized, but just not really livable.

42:49 So he, I think that gives a a real reflection probably on his mental state. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, like who would live like that? I, I just don't. You don't choose to live like that. No, God, no, no, that's yeah. That's really sad. Really sad. Very. Sad. And I think at that time his daughters weren't living with him anymore. And you can kind of can understand. Understand why. Yeah. OK, So just to go back now to sort of the fairly early aftermath of Jamie's murder, the community wanted to rally around Jennifer.

43:23 And in order to do so, like, what do you do in times like these? People want to throw money at it. And I get that because you want to help in some way. Money is probably something she would need. So one of her friends set up a GoFundMe and another friend set up a meal. Train 50 neighbors. So, like, they got on board the meal train, Yeah. 50 they were either well, either contributing to the meal train or they were just or they were dropping off groceries. Yeah, like it was the the 50 different people were rallying community.

43:53 Yeah, community, I mean the water tragedy, you can't even imagine that happening in your street or in your neighborhood, No. So hats off to the people of Texas. Yes, yeah. That that is just such a lovely thing for them to do. Yeah. The GoFundMe raised over $60,000. Yeah. In a very, very short space of time. And Jennifer almost immediately started drawing down on that money. Yeah. Now I can in a way, understand that because obviously Jamie's not earning an income and she wasn't employed at the time.

44:24 Well, she was sort of stood down at the time. So I guess you need money to live. Well, that and like it was, you know, supposed to be able to pay for funerals and there was a decision for them to have two separate funerals for Jamie, one being in Wisconsin with family and the and friends that they lived with there and also one locally there in Texas. So, yeah, there was two different two different funerals to pay for. That's expensive to do, but so. You say that, right? So in Australia, like funerals are freaking expensive.

44:56 Yes, death is expensive. Yeah. What blew my mind is when I saw this is one of the funerals only cost $6000. Yeah, but I'm like, maybe that wasn't was his body not involved in that funeral? Maybe because I would imagine like the cost of cremation and the cost of all buried would be significantly more. I would have thought. So maybe that was just a more a memorial that was 6. Thousand. It was definitely a memorial as well. I. Feel. Yeah, I don't know. But to me that I was like, that's cheap. Yeah, yeah.

45:27 Well, she turns out she didn't pay for it though. No, she didn't. So I don't know, even though she had the GoFundMe money and that's what she was supposed to really be using it for, she kind of put it on or she didn't. She just didn't pay the invoice. She didn't pay the. Invoices No. Right. Sorry. That's where we're at with her. So detectives at this stage were growing a bit suspicious because Jennifer was mostly unharmed in this. Have you watched the the police videos of her interviews? Yes, I have.

45:59 So in her first interview with the police, and as I said, they were very gentle with her because, I mean, she had just been through hella trauma like of being attacked at this point, right? Yeah, she was attacked in this as well. So it. Was just her husband murdered in front of. Her I mean, yeah, So the police are very sympathetic to this. So in no way are they pushing her on any of this. However, he that would she did mention herself like, you know that you can see us. I had a look on my Ring camera to see if you could see anything and you can see us leaving the house, but you can't see anything else.

46:30 You know, he and he goes, oh, can I have a look at that Now being good police officers, they didn't just look at that time frame. He said, oh, let's have a look back at before this. If, you know, see someone in the neighborhood and what else can you see from the camera? And it turns out they have the Ring camera at the front of the house on like the door, and there's one at the back of the house. And so, and this one, this camera, you can see some of their yard and it looks over into the next door neighbour's yard.

46:54 And he's so he scrolls right back the timeline where it only picks up obviously motion. And he sees that there's motion around about 2:30 AM on this back camera. And he's like, can I just have a look at that? And so they're both in this room looking at this on her phone and pull it up. And she's like, Oh, yeah, like, yeah, there's some motion at 2:30 in the morning that's weird. Like, you know, and pulls it up and they see in the backyard of the next door neighbors is a person. Like they say there's something moving.

47:20 And then there's it's kind of two different videos that you can see where this motion has been detected. And yeah, they see this person walk in through this backyard. And Jennifer, she's like, that's really weird because there's no one that lives there. It's an abandoned town. It's a, it's a rental and no one's lived there for about 12 months. Like it's just been empty for 12 months. So for someone to be in the backyard, that's really strange. And there's a fairly good image of who this is like the and the and who you see is it matches the description of herself, Jennifer, and also the neighbor who they see and who attacked them that that morning and killed Jamie.

48:00 So the cops like, well, this is great evidence. Like, you know, like this person's been hanging around. This is a this is a personal attack. This is this is they've been they've been out and waiting for like 5 hours in the backyard of this next door house to come out when you come out of your house to walk your dog. So they've grabbed that and that's. So they've got that in their back pocket of evidence that they haven't a reasonable image of who this person is they're looking for now too. Yeah, obviously we've also got the fact that there's this text message in her phone that they find that they're like, where's this who is this person and why she's having an emotional affair.

48:38 She's certainly not coming forward saying she's had any, any affairs or, you know, in her interview, she also said they did speak on, you know, has there been any, you know, marital affairs and things like that. And she was adamant. No, like there's just that's just not the relationship they had. And that was that was the greatest thing in life on Earth. The two of them loved each other endlessly. And she couldn't think that Jamie would possibly be having an affair. And neither was she categorically not yet here is a text message of her admitting that she was at least having an emotional affair.

49:08 So they tracked down who this person was. That was on this message and it was this Darren Lopez. So because they knew that they didn't have any warrant to go to him and if they did in any way indicate to him they're looking into him, he would factory reset a phone too like and then they'd lose anything that's on his phone. So they found a way that they were able to through the company that his phone was with that they were able to pull all of as much. They couldn't get direct text messages as such at this point.

49:40 What they could get was, you know, that there had been a message, not what the message was, just that there had been messages or phone calls and what to what phone? Number. Yep, that's. Right, right. And also location, they could get that information from the actual company Yeah. So they pulled all this information from the phone company. Now it turns out this blew my mind. I. Know. That there had been Between Darren Lopez's phone and Jennifer Faith's phone, there was roughly 500 messages a day.

50:17 Yep. So the study is that between March of 2020 when they first started texting and January 2021. So what is this? Not even what? 8 months? 999 months 281,000 text messages which is 5 roughly 5. 100 12 day period where they had texted 24,000 times. Yeah, anyone wondering what Jennifer was doing to occupy herself during the pandemic? Texting a lover. Well, according to her, oh, he's just a. Best friend. Best friend texting her. Best friend, but. What? But she was helping. Me look bestie, I don't know that I have the thumb strength to fucking text you 500.

51:03 Times a day you are. I don't know. You freaking do that. Yeah, so my finger wouldn't get as fatigued as yours, but. Seriously, I would have repetitive strain injuries in my thumbs. There is fucking no way I could text 500 times in a day. No. No. The mental capacity, no. No, but you would. You would literally in order to send 500 texts a day, you would have to sit there and be doing it all day and like you'd have your phone on you all the time. Like how else would you? You couldn't. Oh my. God, now, because they weren't even just messaging each other, text messaging each other?

51:37 No, they were also emailing. Yep. So this is not even the only form of communication. It's like when we have a chat going on in WhatsApp and a chat going on in Messenger and a voice note going on or something. Like been there. Because, but I feel like we do that well because we we're talking about different things in each. Oh. We can have so many different conversations. But this would just be I don't even know. Like this is so fucked up. Oh, blew my mind. The stats on the messaging. Yeah, Oh my God.

52:06 So this is not I mean this. I've just, I've just done a bit of a calculator. So how many day, how many hours a day are we awake? Like roughly like what 16 hours? OK, so 500 maybe or? Less for me. For you, Yes. No. Awake. I'm awake. More than that, yeah. But 500 / 16, that's 31 messages of a waking hour. Yeah. So that is literally you are sending a message every two minutes. It takes like 30 seconds probably to type a message or more. Especially I mean. I don't know, I did just this. This thing is the thing that got me a.

52:42 100 percent, 100%. And also that would drive me fucking bat shit crazy having to just be on my phone. But. As the other person in that household, like surely it drove Jamie mental. Like get off your fucking phone and talk to me or but. Although he was working but then she was doing this on the weekends and stuff as well. It's not like it stopped on the weekends. Oh no. Well, the only time it stopped, and this was a very clear indicator for the police, was that there was a 28 hour period where the the messages literally stop.

53:10 From 1:00 PM on the 8th of October until 5:00 PM on the 9th of October. So. And what day was Jamie murdered? The morning of the 9th of October. So 1:00 PM on the 8th of October, right? They stopped communicating even prior to that on that date on the 8th of October, between midnight and 1:00 PM on that day, there was 133. Text messages in one hour. It's like I wouldn't even. I couldn't think. That far? Nah. What are you writing? Like one one letter per one. Word or yeah. Connie, I cannot comprehend the level of like, to me, that's OK.

53:47 If I met someone who messaged me that relentlessly, I'd be like, oh fuck off. Like that's so needy it's ridiculous. Massive ick and what the hell? And text messages that you send to each other. OK, so Oh yeah. OK, I have one here. Go Where is it on? OK, so the messages they were sending to each other, this is just one of them. And this is so this is Darren Lopez sends to Jennifer. Oh, I so need to fill you with hot. Beep. And then she replies. Can I say the word or not? I don't know if I'm allowed to say the word.

54:22 Say it. OK, I'll repeat. Oh, I need to fill you with hot cum.

54:31 And then she replies. Oh God yes. Next message. I'm so in love with you. Oh. My God, if someone said that to me I'd be like fuck. Don't touch me. Fuck off. Oh, rank like so rank? Yuck, just revolting the the content between them gets worse though. It can it and yes it does. Like unbelievably, I mean, look, 2 consenting adults, you do you, but also maybe don't then. Anyway, we'll, we'll get to that. It's it's just so fucking disgusting. And just to make this really clear to you, this is purely and she she's not wrong in saying it's an emotional affair because they never, ever in this time period between.

55:23 So this, this is like they meet, they start talking again in the March of 2020. This with Jamie, the murder occurs in October 2020. So that's what, 6 months? Yep. In that six months, they never met up. No, no. Never met up. But you? OK, So what we know from text messages that have since come out and emailed us is that they were fully engaging in some in sexual activity over phone. Phone, right? Yeah. What constitutes, yeah, an affair to me, an emotional affair? OK, yes. This. Cross this, crosses that.

56:03 Line I I yeah, but at the same time, I don't understand how you can be that. I know that they had previously had relationship. I get that. Yeah, but what they. I don't get this is what this is it. OK. I started thinking to myself going OK, I had a boyfriend, a serious boyfriend in my early 20s who never became my husband. I didn't marry. If I if he was to contact me today. Yeah, but I want to catch up with him for sure. For sure. I'd catch up with him. Would I have feelings for him? No. That's like so in the past.

56:31 Yeah. And. Also, you're different. People, I don't even know who he is as a person anymore. That's right. He's moved on and had kids and married and like, that's absolutely. We've had such different lives too, when we were early 20s dating to like, who is who are you as a person? I don't know you. Yeah. OK. Would I want to get to know you as like in friendship? Sure. Yeah. But can you do that over messages? Well. I don't think so. Personally, look if they're having phone conversations and reconnecting and stuff, I think you can get a vibe of it.

57:02 But and and this progressed to that very. Very quickly. Incredibly quick. Quickly, I think. Well, Jennifer was primed for it. I really, I think what because from what we can find, we see from the emails and messages what happened was he found her on LinkedIn. He actually actively was like oh I want to look up my ex-girlfriend and see where she's at in her life. Oh. Because you know why? Oh yes, yes, this is actually. Really. That's really interesting because he was. A Special Forces soldier, They and he had access to privileged information or like top secret, you know, information he needed to have a code word that he used to access that information or to verify who he was to the military.

57:44 Yeah. That no one else he was out on find out about him it. Couldn't be. Something he'd look up on Facebook about him, or find out about him by anything else. The only person who could know this information would be him. Yeah, yeah. And he used the word Angel, which is what he would call Jennifer when they were dating. Yes. And so that was something that only he knew, but he had then because he'd used it for the last 26 years in this is what he says. He says. She was always at the forefront of my mind, like I always whenever I had to give that code.

58:18 But I always thought about it here and I thought. There's like a safety net for him because it was literally his safety in that if he had to give that code to someone, that was to get him the, you know, access. Whatever he needed. Help that he needed. So it really created this, yeah, a safety net for him. And I think psychologically then it's it's made it more than it was. For sure for. Both of them. Weirdly well, for for him in particular, and I think that's what prompted him to then reach out and try and find her.

58:47 Yeah, he. So yeah, as you said, you found her on LinkedIn and was able to contact her through that. And immediately, like as soon as he messaged her, she messaged back then they were emailing well. What? Interestingly, very, very quickly. So he messaged her on LinkedIn saying like, hey, haven't, you know, it's Darren and haven't spoken to her in years. You know, she came back and went like, how do I know it's really you? This is great if it is, but how do I really know it's you? And he wrote back, Angel, does that help?

59:15 You know, it's me and which like she like went form like latched onto that information. She then wrote back this very lengthy e-mail to him like going yes, it does, because you know that you know, I'm sorry, she just lapped it up. It was really she rent sent him like a novel about her life, giving him every detail of her life. I mean, if you've seen it and read it like it's insane, like the amount of detail that's in this e-mail and that was like literally like they're. Forced instead of back and forth, but instead of him going whoa, whoa, yeah.

59:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like. He actually wrote back, yeah, that's right. He wrote back something similar to her, like, yeah, all of his background and the way and he said in that in that e-mail back to her was when he was like, you saved me. You know, you were this person for me while I was deployed and while all these horrific things were happening to me, you kept me going. The thought of you and. And I'm like, you had a wife and kids at home. You did during all of that. Yeah, during all of that.

1:00:12 And so he look, I mean, I guess the fact that their breakup was amicable and he obviously had fond memories of their time together, but to be that intense is interesting. Yeah, yeah. Can't come. I don't know. I really, it's really odd and I get it from his perspective, like with a brain injury like he's got now, this is another side of it. So I find this a bit interesting. So she was speech therapy trained and yes, worked in a rehab centre. And what she talked about was that because of her training, she helped him through things with this brain injury.

1:00:51 And she also knew how to manipulate him a little bit because of her training. Which I I think that would have been maybe more her experience, yeah, because she'd worked in the rehab centre for such a long time and she worked with people with traumatic brain injuries in the rehab centre. Yeah, right. So I feel like her work experience probably went a long way and. Yeah, He really felt like she was his therapist in a lot of ways, which I mean, then it's like that's a whole ethical issue then. Oh fucking no.

1:01:19 Yeah. But then but their their interactions were sexual from very early on as well. So it's a very blurry, fucking shitty mix to be fair. So in that original even message that she sent to her friend Tina, yeah, she actually even said in that we have a five year plan now. What the and what the where's Tina? Like, why is she not calling this shit out more going like, well, hang on a second is part of this plan. You need to leave Jamie then and leave, you know that's. Amicably and that's right, terminate that relation if that's not something you want.

1:01:57 One of the things she Jennifer claims, and we don't know whether this is true or not, is that she and Jamie hadn't had sex in four years to this point, so they didn't. Her thing was that they were more like friends and roommates rather than in a in a relationship together. Yeah, whether or not that's true, We, we. Don't we don't know. Yeah, but that's what she was claiming. But that's not the reason. Claim to learn other things. Yeah, that's right. Exactly. So I feel like you can't really believe everything she says.

1:02:24 No. And who who actually knows? Nobody knows what you know. People's relationships are behind clothes. Or no, they do not. No, no. So, you know, take that as you will. Yeah, but but this was one of the things she used as an excuse as to why she wanted to leave him. But yeah, leave him. Yeah. Then leave him. That's fine. So basically at this point, like the police are obviously finding all these messages these, you know, this is clearly a fairly intense relationship between the two of them over. Messages 10281 thousand messages for.

1:02:55 Me. Yeah, but they still don't know what the what so where this motive was and what, like, what went on here? And they're thinking themselves that, OK, so maybe, you know, look, he certainly has brain injuries and things like that, that maybe Darren has snapped and he's like, I'm taking Jennifer like I wanted for myself. And he has taken upon himself and he has murdered Jamie unbeknownst to Jennifer whatsoever. Like that's that's one theory they've got going on. They keep diving in a bit more into what's going on with these messages and keep finding more.

1:03:28 And what they then find is messages that start getting real emails even. They start getting very unusual. And they're from Jamie. And so it seemed to them that Jamie and him were communicating. So, yeah, this is maybe then when why it's so personal because Jamie then, as she said to her friend Tina, you know, Jamie knew about this relationship with with Darren. Yeah. And so the the cops are sort of building even more of a story of like, OK, like, so now there's interaction between Jamie and Darren to create this conflict that yes, they've that he didn't like him.

1:04:03 And also particularly because a lot of these messages from Jamie were revolting. Oh, absolutely disgusting telling, you know, Darren, you know, that he had was going to do awful things to Jennifer and then also after the fact that this is what I did to Jennifer and then attaching photos of what he did to Jennifer. Yeah. So what you're referring to now is he. So according to these emails, Jamie has emailed Darren basically saying that he forced Jennifer to perform oral sex on him in the spa and he held her head underwater and then she passed out.

1:04:41 And so he had to give her CPR to bring her back to life. And then he was actually going to organize so the on the 8th of October. So the day before Jamie was murdered, it was actually their 15 year anniversary and they'd celebrated and had a nice day. But what Jamie apparently emailed to Darren was that he'd actually organized for the on the 9th to for a gang rape in this hot tub again, he. Wanted to have 10 men and he already organized 7. Yep, to come and gang rape Jennifer and that was like his.

1:05:19 Gift to her. To her, Yep. For her 15th anniversary, Yep. Like absolute revolting at this time. So obviously Darren is extremely concerned for Jennifer's welfare at this time. And he says to her, I'm gonna go to the police. She begs him not to. She's like, it'll just make everything worse for me. I'll deny it. If you go to the police, I'll deny that any of it happened. Yeah, So he says to her, I need to know that you've got somebody near you who's a safe person. And she's like, oh, well, how about I give you the contact details of my work best friend, his name is Rob Schmidt.

1:05:54 And I'll give you his e-mail address and you can contact him. So they apparently they've been workmates for about 15 years. So he this Rob emails Darren and basically, no, sorry, Darren emails Rob first. He introduces himself and says who he is and, and that he's very, very concerned. Rob then emails back and says I've never, I never knew Jamie to be like that. I had no idea that any of this was going on. Jennifer has never confided this in me. But let me let me have a chat with her about it and you know, I'll, I'll definitely protect.

1:06:31 Her. Yeah, he said I'm gonna go there this weekend, actually. And he goes. I won't, I won't leave until I've spoken to Darren and to sorry to Jamie. And I know that he's not gonna hurt her and or you know, or that we're gonna get the police involved and stuff. If I if I don't feel like it's safe, I'll make sure that's what happens. So Rob then, you know, is emailing back and forth and it they, they were kind of working each other up. So it got to the point where Rob said, look, if he ever lays a hand on Jennifer, I'm gonna kill him.

1:07:01 Yeah. And Darren's like, well, yeah, absolutely. Like me too. Yeah. And so it kind of escalated, you know, certain things were suggested. Yeah. It was just working themselves up really. Yeah. So the police are looking at all these messages going, OK, it looks like potentially then. Yeah, this is Darren taking it upon himself to stop this from occurring and in his mind, protecting this woman that he loves and taking out Jamie. Yeah. You know who's been abusing Jennifer? Yeah. The photos that were attached to these emails were absolutely awful injuries that she had.

1:07:40 Strangulation marks around her neck? Yeah. Abrasions, yeah. Bruises. Really. Bad, like some of them you could clearly see it was her. Yeah. Other other photos weren't as clear. They were, you know, photos of body parts, close-ups, close-ups of body parts, but that there were a couple that were, you know, they were definitely injuries that had occurred to her. You could see her face in them. So, yeah, they're like, OK, we can understand why he, like, not saying I understand why you kill anybody, you know, and that shouldn't get that far.

1:08:08 But like going, OK, this is building a story case really of like what's why this has occurred potentially and a motive here as to why he would do that. But then when they looked closer at these images, it was found that some of them were, as we said of of Jennifer, of a car accident she had had a new few years earlier. Eight years. Yeah. Quite a bit of a gap. Yeah. That, yeah, there were some injuries, some severe injuries that she she had from that car accident. And there were photos from that and then other images where her face wasn't in those.

1:08:45 They were stock images that she had pulled from the Internet. Yep. They were not of injuries that she had endured from abuse from Jamie, no.

1:08:57 Interesting. The other interesting thing is, so there's also when Jamie emailed Darren about the gang rape, he said he's got his friend, a friend by the name of Jeremy Gebler, who was one of Jamie's best friends, and he was going to come and be one of the people who were going to rape, rape Jennifer that following day. And apparently for the fact that this person was named that, that really made Darren furious because you know, he's he's organizing this gang rape of this woman that Darren absolutely loves and he's absolutely devoted to.

1:09:36 So what does Darren decide to do about that? Well, what we now know is that he hops in his car in his black, whatever it is, truck, truck. Nissan Titan. Nissan Titan with a white tee logo in the back windscreen. He drives from Tennessee through Arkansas into Dallas into Texas, stupidly puts in Jamie and Jennifer's exact address into his GPS and drives across state lines with a firearm and shoots Jamie in cold blood. Yeah, OK, Well, the motive here, we've just discussed these emails that are going back and forth, the police like, well, what have we done now?

1:10:32 We have we have found we found it like this is it he's. Who this is who killed him? The the evidence of who did this. We know now who and why he did this. So what they've done is they have arrested Darren at the same time they've actually pulled it. Sorry. They've arrested Darren in Tennessee. Yeah, at the same time they've pulled Jennifer in for questioning again at exactly the same time. So they couldn't contact each other. They were really worried about Darren because he was special forces trained.

1:11:04 They knew he had this traumatic brain injury. They were really worried about arresting him on his property. They were worried they did be booby trapped or something. Yeah, and his mental health. You. Know. Yep. Trigger something. So they decided to arrest him when he was not at home. They also didn't want him to, I don't know, blow the place up or destroy something or destroy evidence. So he was out, I think he was having breakfast or something with one of his daughters and they arrested him and he he fully, just very calm, very calm, was arrested and taken.

1:11:31 He's been, he said it. He said about that, the fact that when he was arrested, in his mind he thought to himself, OK, I'm being arrested for this, and it was worth it. Yeah, because I saved Jennifer from that potential horrific event of that great gang race. Some quote I heard that he said it was something like I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Yes, yes, yes. So. He would rather. Judge by a Jury of. 12 than be in a coffin. And carried by 6 people. Which is what he thought was going to eventuate in terms of Jennifer being killed by Jamie.

1:12:08 Yeah. So. OK, so in his mind he was happy to wear the consequences. Of that, he was very calm about being arrested for that reason, that he was like, you know what? Yeah, that it is what it is. I saved her, yeah. The police have then gone and searched his home and they did find the murder weapon in a satchel that also contained a DVD that he purchased on the way to killing from the local 711 or whatever. Anyway. Interesting. I don't I don't know what DVD was. What was it? I'm not actually sure. I'm like, was it porn?

1:12:37 I don't know anyway, but they. Found it, Ryan. They found the murder weapon and it had blood on it. Turns out the blood matched Jamie's. The Ballistics evidence also came back that this was the gun that was used to kill Jamie and. Because it was a gun and it had crossed state lines, that meant that the federal police became involved too, so it became out like a higher level of crime. Yeah, so the FBI did get involved at this point as well, and they had better forensic techniques to investigate computers and phones and all of that sort of stuff.

1:13:07 So when the police questioned Jennifer, at the same time they've also taken Jamie's phone, Jamie's computer, they've taken Jennifer's phone and Jennifer's computer. And what they found is that on the day that on the exact same day that Rob Schmidt was in contact by Darren, his e-mail address was created. On the exact same day that Jamie's e-mail address that was used to contact Darren was used. It was created on that day, Right. The other thing to note is that Jamie was a high up IT person. Yeah, and he's written all this incriminating and damning shit through e-mail.

1:13:53 Everyone knows emails not. Encrypted. Nothing's like, you know. E-mail is so insecure. Anyone can get into your e-mail. Really. Yes. You never write anything in an e-mail. If it's no, you know. Someone in IT as high up as particularly as Jamie who knew his shit, Yeah. He would. Have done that. He would do that. The other interesting thing is that Jamie's e-mail address and Rob's e-mail addresses that were used to contact Darren were both deleted on the same day. That's a bit curious the. Other thing was when they they were looking at, you know, these messages, like they could see what Jennifer was doing.

1:14:27 She was texting Darren saying, you know, like, I know you're currently texting with Jamie, you know, and she was back and forth with him, but they were like, but hang on a second, There's no messages between Darren's phone number and Jamie's phone number. Like what? We can't even find where this is occurring that there's no interaction between those two phones. Turns out it was a different phone. It wasn't Jamie's phone that the phone was interacting with. No, it was Jennifer's phone. So yeah, it was actually Jennifer's phone.

1:14:59 So what They what? They had a code system set. Up. Sorry, yes. So Jamie it when Jamie in quotation marks was contacting Darren through Jennifer's phone, yes, he he would just write a message. Darren and Jennifer created this thing where they put 575 at the start of their It's like their code to say yes, it's me. Jennifer, it's not Jamie. It's not Jamie. And so they would text 575 I love you, I think you're amazing them and then and then. My teenager eye rolls. Sorry. So yeah, what we know is that it wasn't Jamie texting was it was constantly and it wasn't Rob emailing and it wasn't Jamie emailing.

1:15:41 Jennifer was doing all of it. And none of it was true. She was not being abused by Jamie. Not. Even. Not even close, apparently. He never even yelled. He never raised his voice. He never did anything that was even remotely like questionable. No. And again, because I come back to this a little bit. So they had a Bernese Mountain dog in that home. I'm sorry, but that shit can't go down when there's a Bernese mountain dog in the home because that dog will protect to the NTH degree. I'm shocked that like that dog would not have attacked.

1:16:20 It won't attack the attacker. It will protect their person, right? So it will Velcro. So I just, I don't know, it actually makes it really clear for me when I saw that that was the kind of dog in that home. I'm like, you'll be protected, you'll be safe. Just know that from my own. Yeah, that's it. That's exactly right. And you know, fucking shame on her to put all this shit out there about Jamie when it wasn't even true. Absolutely instead. Of just doing the right thing and just leaving her husband, who she obviously didn't love anymore, she didn't want to be with.

1:16:56 Anymore weird. Like I mean they had the almost idyllic life in so many ways. She had a man in her life who adored her daughter and raised her as his own. She, they had money. They were very well to do. They had, they wanted for nothing. They went on regular holidays. He worked for an airline for crying out loud. They would have had very good deals, you know, flying anywhere they wanted in the world, constantly going on holidays. They, he was, he was a good company guy. Like people said he was the guy you wanted on his, on your trivia team, you know, like he was the guy you wanted to spend time with.

1:17:29 He was, she said it herself that he was funny, charismatic. Not I shouldn't use that word, sorry, because that means he's not good. You know, fun and really intelligent and like what's not to at that point in your life? Why would you need to do this? If you don't want to be with him, then don't be with him. I just. Yeah. It's like their daughter had grown up as well. Yeah. You know, mid 20s or early 20s at this stage. Yeah. So it's not like she was young and you're like, oh, OK, maybe I'll stay with him for the sake of their daughter.

1:17:59 Yeah, I just, I don't know. It actually blows my mind. Absolutely. What we know though, is that this actually isn't the first time Jennifer attempted or wanted to off a partner this. Is kind of her MO. It's her MO. It's really fucking bizarre actually. Just really quickly before we get to that, something I meant to mention just before is that, and this, this is the thing that actually gets me about Darren knowing that Jennifer was subjected to rape. This is so this is Darren's truth of it, right?

1:18:36 Is that Jennifer was subjected to rape. Jamie was the worst kind of abuser. They used to have these phone sex interactions where they would actually act out, and this is on text, apparently on voice and even through e-mail they would text situations about rape that they would then use in their sexual play. Yeah, that's so there's clearly something from Jennifer Jennifer's side of this. This was clearly something for some real warped reason of some sort of sexual fantasy of hers. But then as the other partner in this, yeah, wouldn't you kind of go, if you're experiencing that in your life and it's a negative, awful thing, full blown, like gross, why would you want that to then act that out as as sexual pleasure?

1:19:31 Yeah. I, I really find that. I mean, I get it. Some people like to get tied up, you know, That's if that's your thing. But no. But this was this was like depicting. Yeah, yeah. What They were, yeah. Doing so I to me that's bizarre and would that not ring a red like ring a bell for? James, this is for for Darren, That's it. Wouldn't you kind of be going like, wait, what's? I don't want to traumatize you more like that's. Weird. I don't think we should be doing that. I mean, I don't know it's but so right up until like, they're like both, both of them were arrested.

1:20:02 And so as we said, Darren's arrested for murder. But at first Jennifer's murder is just arrested for perverting the course of justice because she wasn't honest in her yet. She'd lied endlessly. But at this point, they were just saying that like, yeah, she hadn't come forward saying that there was someone else in her life that. You know, could then be someone who would murder her husband because of their relationship. So even just that fact of hiding that is enough for them to have gone and arrested her for that.

1:20:33 Yeah. But as they've then uncovered that this is actually her manipulating this person to have gone and done this. She without I mean, I I think there were were there was in their conversations. There was I'm going to kill this guy like, you know, kind of talk. But she never actually said to the said to him, you know, kill him on this day. I want you to do it this like she didn't go that far. She fully manipulated him like without having to go that far. Yeah, because of his training he had and all that and what his life experience was.

1:21:02 She knew that she could do that to him. I think absolutely. Anyway, so the cops have then once established all of that, they then pull another one out on her and then charge her with murder for hire. So that and that's a whole other level. And because it's federal as well, because across state lines, it's comes with a whole lot of things, including the death penalty. So at this point, they're both looking at coming to go to trial over this. And at this point, Darren still believes that this, the, the, the cops have made this up that it's, it's not, it's, it's absolutely not Jennifer lying.

1:21:38 She's told me the truth that this is what she was living hell. And I have saved her from that. He's fully entrenched in that. The cops really tried and his lawyer really tried to convince him of this fact that it was Jennifer lying. Jennifer sent him a letter via a friend and I'm going to read it. This is just her. So obviously starts with 575.

1:22:06 Just a quick note to say I never lied to you and I never sent you emails from any account but mine as me. You. You once said you would never believe anything about me unless you heard it from me. I hope that's still true. There is a lot more I wish I could say but I can't right now, which I find that even just that statement like really manipulative. Soon, hopefully if you want to respond, you can write back to the address on the envelope because she's in prison at the moment, like in Sophie. So your cousin Tony never sent the letter you you wrote only only something he got 1.

1:22:46 I don't know what that says. It's lost in it. So don't go through. Don't go through him anymore. 8381. Another code of some sorts. Still now and forever. So she's still trying to manipulate him and still lying whilst they're sitting in their own cells in prison. Eventually, though, his lawyer does get through to him. Well, apparently they, the lawyer ended up getting one of his daughters to talk to him and talking through all of the evidence. Yeah. And it was sitting with his daughter, who was like, dad, you know, you've really got to look at this for what it is.

1:23:19 Yeah. That's what got him to think about it. And then very quickly he looked at it obviously with a very different perspective. And he very, very quickly turned on Jennifer for seeing, seeing her for exactly what she'd done and, and how she'd manipulated him. And he decided he would then give evidence against her and basically told the police everything, absolutely everything. And good job that he did, because that enabled the sentencing of Jennifer to be that she was put in prison for life. But it also meant that she pled guilty up until that knowing that fact right building up.

1:23:58 That's that's and that's why she sent this letter to him. Like she's trying to keep him on the hook that, you know, we're both in this together. Like we're you know, we're we're forever because the minute like. So she was planning on going to trial. She was going to defend this that, you know, but I was being abused and go fully in on it. That I'm not lying. That's what happened to me. And he was protecting me. Yeah. And so that was what her plan was until the cops came to her and said, Darren's going to testify against you.

1:24:24 He's he's worked you out and that's what made her turn and say right, well, I'll plead guilty. So that and on with the plea deal, what with that was I'll plead guilty if the death penalty comes off the table. So she, yeah, then they were able to sentence her very heavily, like she'll spend the rest of her life in prison. Exactly where she fucking deserves to be. Yeah, she's dangerous, man. Oh, really, really dangerous. I find her psychologically fascinating. Yeah, what the fuck goes on in that brain?

1:24:56 Fuck only knows. Fuck only knows. So Darren was also charged with murder? Yeah. Now his lawyers argued that he should receive a charge of manslaughter. Yeah, it was decided and argued that it wasn't manslaughter because it was premeditated. And manslaughter is something that happens in the moment. It's not something that happens, you know, weeks, months, days of kind of planning or yeah, thinking about it and. The other argument that they had was around the fact that there was defence. He was like, you know, but he wasn't because that it talks about in that legally it talks about immediate danger, you know, and so in it's not.

1:25:35 Like Jamie was armed while they were going for a walk with that. No, but he drove from Tennessee to Dallas. Therefore it's not immediate. It was 10. Hours of drive there was whatever. Plenty of time for him to have contacted police or have someone else involved like who was closer by to intervene. There was different decisions he could have made and I get it from the perspective of, but his brain injury really unfortunately impacted him here to make decisions that were the right decisions. Yeah.

1:26:04 I feel for him in that and the manipulation that she had, the number she had done on him was was well, good. Like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But he definitely had other options if he was a fully mentally well person. Yeah. They actually, because I love America for this court TV, you can watch his trial in full. Yeah. Including the fact that because his trial went on for a little bit with lots of bits and pieces and you kind of didn't know where it was going to go, but he actually sits on the witness box and he testifies.

1:26:36 And in that when he's, when his lawyer is questioning him, I, I fully fell for, I was really empathetic towards him in that. And because you could see in him the remorse and the regret of what he had done absolutely comes through that he now with the knowledge he's got that this was not real. He's fully he like he, he now he he said something around the fact of like, I hear people talk about how what a good person he Jamie was and how that just makes me feel sick that I've taken. He talks constantly around.

1:27:09 He's taken him away from Amber. Yeah. As a father myself, that to know that I have now removed a father from a daughter's life, whether stepfather or not, she's his daughter. And he was really the way he spoke. Yeah. Oh, same. Same, he said in in that testimony, he said if I didn't do something, she was going to die. That was what he really. Believed. Yeah. Oh, but then yeah, obviously then the the prosecution took over in terms of questioning him. And that didn't mean they did they they running took him through the wringer.

1:27:41 Oh absolutely. She went nuts. You know what? And I was doing her. I do see her that perspective and I do get it as well. He was sentenced to 62 years in jail. He is up for parole, I believe in 2051, which would put him at about 80 years of age. He's still going through some appeal processes. Not appealing the conviction. No, he appealing. He could have been convicted. Absolutely. Just appealing The length of time, the sentencing. Yeah. Which I find really fascinating that in their legal system, it was the jury who sentenced him.

1:28:14 I know not the judge, which I find that really fascinating that I wonder if it was judge sentencing, not jury sentencing, whether that would have changed would. They take into account the traumatic brain injury. Would they take into account the fact that he was very easily manipulated by Jennifer? Would they take into account that Jennifer had actually tried this on before? Like, as in, you know, this wasn't the first time she tried to manipulate someone into murdering someone. Yes. Yes, you know, there's so many things.

1:28:42 Just general good behaviour and his remorse and regret. Oh for sure. Like, yeah. Absolutely he should be in prison. Yes, he agrees with that, but I think in his mind he would like to see that he would be out before the age of 80. Yeah, for something that he, he's not, he's not a risk to the community. No. And that, and that's what his lawyers are saying. That's the argument for, you know, a little bit of clemency. Yeah, Is that he will never do this again. He's not gonna kill somebody else. I can guarantee he won't ever start up a relationship with someone else.

1:29:10 The trauma of that alone would be for sure. Yeah. Once bitten, twice charged. Yeah. That's it, yeah. So, yeah, that's, you know, I guess that's up to the American judicial. System, yeah, it could still come to play. As I said, there's still appeals playing out. Yeah, yeah. And I'm I'm intrigued to see what happens with that. Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. What a fascinating 1. In terms of previous partners in this, what went on there as well, I found that pretty fascinating. So because there. So there was obviously her first husband that yeah, she fell pregnant to and then moved on very quickly to then husband #2 Rick.

1:29:46 It was his name now he was told a similar story to what Darren was that her first husband was abusive and you know, listen, she'd been through hell with him so and he he had times of oh God, I just want to kill him like how dare he treat me like that. Well, she. He says that that Jennifer kind of led him to that. It wasn't really even his idea. No, but he sees now. Or well, especially now knowing what's happened with Jamie. Yeah, he's like, Oh my God, that could have been me. Yes, but so their marriage ended very quickly because he got these messages from two guys who told him information that he's like, that's fucked up.

1:30:25 That's actually not true. What the hell? Oh, no, that's. And they messaged him saying that he was abusing Jennifer. Yeah. And he's like, well, I'm not. What? And that's, and that's what made him twig and go hang on a minute. She's accusing me now of the stuff she accused your ex of. And none of the men have done this to her. This is her and he was I'm out and ended the marriage. So I think probably good he didn't have the traumatic brain injury to then be easily manipulated by her. She, I mean, she's the one about a box that is for damn sure just.

1:31:03 Even like looking at the way she cried to the media after Jamie died, I. Have to say her interviews like with the police, the initial interview she did with the police and the media stuff she did unbelievable a. 100% even the screams that you can hear from the neighbors. CCTV not CCTV. I get being able to fake that because did she? Know that it was going to happen. No, she had no idea it was going to occur. Yeah, so that was easier to fake even it because I guess at the moment, do you even think it's not?

1:31:33 It's not him. Like she wouldn't have even known it was him until it came close enough. Or she knew it was he was on his way because didn't she? Because they stopped communication. Please stop the communication. But I don't know if they communicated he was coming though. No, I I well, but then but she must have known something was up. They were texting 30 times an hour to nothing. I feel like she must have known. Must have known something. But I mean, I guess, yeah. She didn't know what he was going to do, how it was going to happen.

1:31:54 Yeah. Or when. So, yeah. But sitting in that police interview, that initial police interview, I mean, if someone, you could very easily watch that clip and go, this is a woman who's been through fucking hell and she's innocent. This is the wife of a, you know, a tragically murdered husband. Yeah, I could believe that someone would do it. And the police did, too. They were like, OK, we're looking at an innocent person here. Yeah. Yeah. She's good at what she does. I'll give her that. But for her out, The other very interesting thing I found.

1:32:26 Oh, God. Was that Amber? Yeah. Her daughter. Yeah, still communicates with her and visits her in prison so they speak at least twice a week. I. Did not know that I I knew Amber was still like, she'll still post things on social media about Jamie and about how he she misses him and he was such an amazing father and all that. I didn't know that she still had. She still had. Regular contact. Regular as in weekly, more than once a week contact. I couldn't believe that I was like. I guess I mean it's her mum and she's but no one else but fucking.

1:33:03 Nah, birthdays. That's about it. Sorry. Christmas. Maybe I'd make a contact with her mate at best. I don't even know if I would do. No, I'm saying absolutely. I would be very down for that. Yeah, Yeah, but I mean, never. I don't know. Wow, that's yeah. I'd love to know what she what her thoughts are. I know, very important to me. Sorry, but I did find out that at least Amber has Maggie the dog and Maggie's living with Amber so that Maggie's safe. Maggie's safe and and OK and Maggie didn't get injured in any of.

1:33:38 The no, I'm quite surprised at the dog's reaction to it all, that there wasn't an injury to the dog or anything in this situation cause that the dog didn't get in between. Yeah, like I'm glad. The dog was on a leash though. Yeah, but that. No, they let go of the leash. Who? I think. Yeah. OK. Jennifer had the leash. Yeah. And she let go of it. Oh, OK. Not gonna go anywhere. That dog. Yeah, No, she. But she was all around the area because the neighbors said that too, that the dog was just awfully, you know, wandering around with the lead hanging off.

1:34:05 Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. My goodness. All right. Oh wow, mind blown. Mind blown. Crazy. Yeah, I mean crazy. I just, I just want to honestly say though, this is not a typical scenario any means. We believe victims and 990,000,000 times out of however many women tell the truth about this. This is not, I mean, we don't want any latching onto like, you know, I see all women lie about this stuff. It's not true because it is not the case at all. This is so not the norm. It's that a female lies about these sorts of abuse occurring, so just want to put that out there.

1:34:47 Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Yeah, a really, really good point. And and as you said, we believe victims. And that's probably why Darren, yeah, you know, went believed everything he had to say. He had no reason not to. Because he was such a good person himself. Yeah. And but at the same time, he was so tragically. Yeah. Yeah. It's just tragic in so many ways that she picked her target, that is for damn sure. She found a damn good target for her incessant lies and some warped sexual gratification.

1:35:20 So I don't even, I don't don't get that. I just can't comprehend. It no. Me neither. Me neither. All right, next week we are back in Australia, Margaret and Shawna Tapp. So that actually happened down the road from. Not far from. Where we live, so it's a That's a. Real close track. So I'm not old enough to remember this one that wells OK. I've listened to a few podcasts about it in the past, so I've got a a rough idea. Yeah, that's how, that's how I know this story. I don't know it from, but living in the time no.

1:35:53 Not far off though, fuck off. You'd go there. That's why I'm trying to get ahead of it. All right, I hope everyone has a really wonderful week and we'll see you again next week for another episode of Two Crime Besties. So true. Stay curious, crime besties. Bye.