Episode 53 - Christopher Duntsch AKA Dr. Death

0:14 Welcome back to Crime Besties. We are here for another week in

0:17 another episode. How you going, Meg?

0:20 Yeah. It's the same as last week,

0:22 really. I know, I know.

0:24 Back here on Repaid, I think with sick kids and it just keeps

0:27 floating through the family so. Yeah, you know, sharing is

0:30 caring. Oh yeah, we could it.

0:32 Be. You know how it be.

0:34 Yeah. Mason came back from camp and he

0:36 was like, everyone was sick. I think we were talking about

0:38 that in our episode last week. Yeah, but now like at the Tailor

0:42 and of it now, Mason's sick this week.

0:44 Yeah, yeah, he kind of escaped it from the immediate after

0:47 camp. Like, I mean, although that

0:49 weekend, all of them, their their footy game, they look,

0:52 they, they played a reasonable team and everything, but they

0:55 were all like just exhausted the entire team.

0:57 That was so. Well, that was so cute.

1:00 But yeah, they kept little dropping like flies throughout

1:02 the week, getting sick and stuff.

1:04 And then, yeah, Mason's copped it by the end of the week, so

1:07 just his turn. So.

1:09 Yeah. So he's home and unwell so.

1:11 Feeling OK? Yeah, yeah.

1:13 So you know, more days off work for me the.

1:16 Juggle is hard. You were saying today though,

1:18 you've got him at home, but you've got work stuff that you

1:21 need to do after we finish recording today.

1:23 And you know, those kinds of things never stop.

1:25 It's a tough balance. It is.

1:27 It is unfortunately in the role. I'm, I mean, there's kind of no

1:29 one else that can do certain things unfortunately.

1:31 And so you just kind of gotta make it work.

1:33 Can we? Do we make it work?

1:35 Hey super mums. Oh, that's it.

1:37 All of us are. We'll take that, take that

1:39 title. Absolutely.

1:40 You gotta do what you gotta do. Absolutely.

1:42 I'm thickened to the planning of my 40th, which is next Friday.

1:46 It's one week away. I'm so.

1:47 Excited. I know when your sister-in-law

1:49 said to me, I say you're coming right now.

1:50 You're like Oh my God, dancing shoes and drinking shoes on.

1:55 Absolutely, Yeah. So that's really exciting, but

1:58 I've I feel like I thought I had another week, but I.

2:02 Yeah, but I don't. No, I don't love that.

2:04 Really, really quickly. Really has all of a sudden I

2:06 feel like it was like when I remember like date being set and

2:09 kind of going yeah, yeah, that's, that's.

2:10 Forever. Away.

2:11 Yeah, that's why we're all good. We're all good.

2:12 But yeah, bang it to you, yeah. How are you?

2:14 Are you feeling prepared 'cause I mean?

2:17 It's, you know, when you do things like this, it's all the

2:19 last minute stuff that you can't do.

2:21 Yeah, I've done all of the things that I can do.

2:23 I think. Yeah, although I am putting.

2:26 This will come out after the party, right?

2:27 Yeah, I'm putting together little like recovery bags for

2:32 everyone to take home. And I said to the.

2:34 Boys, the adult lolly bag, you know.

2:36 And they'll be lollies. Don't don't get me wrong.

2:38 Like as if you can have a lolly and, you know, an adult party

2:41 bag without lollies. I'm not I'm not evil.

2:45 We. Still need our lollies?

2:46 Yeah, that's you. But I was saying to the boys,

2:50 you know, this weekend we'll put those together because that's

2:52 obviously something we can do a bit in advance.

2:54 Yeah. And Oliver was like, well, it

2:57 depends. Can we do 1 lolly for me, one

2:59 lolly for the lolly bag? I'm like, no mate, sorry, but

3:03 that's a hard no. Yeah, yeah, we'll put, we'll put

3:06 as many together as we can. And if there's any lollies

3:09 leftover, I'm out. That you have one payment.

3:12 Payment. So this morning, right?

3:16 Friday morning, school morning, Oliver's been going through a

3:20 phase of having toasties for brekkie.

3:22 Ham and cheese, tomato. Toasty, Beautiful, Great.

3:24 See, I'm weird like that. OK, so go close Toasty's lunch.

3:29 Open Toasty's breakfast. What's an open toasty like a

3:32 melted? Melted one like on the grill,

3:34 like under the grave. I don't know, that is weird.

3:36 Yep, sorry. So he's sorry, Ollie.

3:39 He's having a lunch, He's having a lunch.

3:40 Toasty for breakfast, lunch for. Breakfast, but if you opened it,

3:44 fine that is. So funny, actually.

3:47 Peter actually had an open toasty for breakfast.

3:49 This morning he didn't want. Two pieces of bread.

3:51 Yeah. So.

3:52 Yeah. Anyway, so Ollie's normally been

3:54 having toasties or porridge. He's kind of alternating between

3:57 the two. Yeah.

3:58 I have no more ham left. It's Friday.

4:00 Yeah, I had. We've run out of porridge and

4:04 we. I only had those like steel cut

4:08 oats, which bloody take. I mean they don't take that long

4:10 to cook, but I'm like, I can't be bothered in making that.

4:13 And Lucas said to me he's like, oh mum, can I have a sprinkle

4:16 wrap for breakfast? And I'm like a sprinkle wrap,

4:18 like so fair, like a fairy bread wrap.

4:20 All right, that's definitely lunch.

4:23 Oh yes? Well.

4:24 If you're lucky. I'm learning the hard way.

4:26 So I was like, oh, and they caught me in a moment of

4:29 weakness and I was like, Friday, right, Fine, it's Friday.

4:32 Yay. Well, it turns out, just for

4:35 anybody wondering, sugar on carbohydrates for breakfast when

4:41 you've got nothing else in your tummy and you're 8:00 and 11:00.

4:45 Not the best idea. Peter said.

4:47 I'm the I'm the creator of my own demise this morning because

4:51 they were bouncing off the walls.

4:54 I'm so sorry to the teeth because I've sent them to school

4:56 too today because they were like vibing.

4:58 On another level, yeah. Oh, I love it.

5:01 Yeah. It's it's a happy high.

5:02 It's all good. It's.

5:03 Yeah. What a Friday that's allowed.

5:05 It's Friday. It's Friday.

5:07 Yeah, go with it. Yeah, I'm sure there's other

5:10 kids who'll be worse. They probably put a bit of

5:13 protein with it somehow or something, I don't know.

5:15 But anyway, so they went off very, very happy and very

5:19 energetic to school this morning.

5:21 I. Love it.

5:21 No. Well, that's good for a Friday,

5:22 because Friday's gonna be tough for that.

5:24 Like, yeah. We're Friday, we're getting

5:25 towards the end of the term. Yeah, as I was.

5:27 Walking out of school today, I was talking to one of the

5:29 teachers he was on. Yahoo.

5:30 I had a chat with him too, yeah. And he said he's like an 11 week

5:36 term. It should be illegal.

5:37 The most horrific thing in a primary school?

5:40 Yeah. Week 9 is when everyone loses

5:43 their shit, so when there's only one more week to go after that,

5:46 you kind of pull yourself together and do it.

5:48 But when it's 2, that's. Hard it.

5:52 Has felt like it's dragged. Yeah, 11 weeks are the worst.

5:55 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, next week.

5:58 I don't know about your kids but all he's got heaps of

6:01 extracurricular type things on which I think is probably.

6:04 Fair. There's so much in Next.

6:06 Week through that last week. Well, I'm kind of like they've

6:10 been all. Sports days.

6:12 They've got dress up, Dress up days.

6:14 Yeah, it's gonna. Be a massive week.

6:16 So much, but they've got like, I was kind of like thinking myself

6:18 last night going wait, him being sick at the moment and Brody was

6:21 the week before. Like, you know, that actually

6:24 means we might get a school holidays where we're not sick.

6:26 Like it's always these school holidays and I've been on well,

6:30 so as well. So we're kind of maybe we've got

6:31 through that, that we'll get to the school holidays and we'll

6:33 genuinely be able to just have good rest, not sick rest, Yeah.

6:37 And but also have fun things and, you know, enjoy ourselves

6:41 and get, you know, revved back up for term 3.

6:43 So maybe it's not that worst thing in the world that we've

6:46 all been unwell. Yeah, get it over and done.

6:48 Yeah, surely. Because this winter's been

6:50 discussed. Oh, it's been horrible.

6:52 So many people have been really, really sick.

6:54 Really. Unwell.

6:55 Yeah, it's been awful. Yeah, yeah.

6:58 Oh man, I've now got to spend Saturday all day at Bunnings for

7:02 the, you know. What's the weather meant to be?

7:05 Reasonable, like, so not pouring, not pouring with rain

7:09 meant to be dry at least. So that's something.

7:11 I mean, apparently 15°, which is better than the 10 that we had

7:14 during the week and stuff. So OK, yeah, I'll take that for

7:17 a Bunnings barbecue on a Saturday.

7:18 Do you have to be there the whole day?

7:20 I will, yeah. Wow.

7:21 It'll be a very long day. I'll be there at 8:00 AM till

7:23 about 5 I think so, yeah. Yeah, you're a.

7:28 You're a gem, but you're an absolute gem.

7:30 Is. Anything better though, than a

7:31 bunning sausage you know, and a you know the.

7:33 Did you have to sign the waiver about putting the onions under

7:36 the yes? Under this, onions go on the

7:38 bottom. No matter how many people whinge

7:39 and complain because they do, they always do.

7:42 And you're like, well, I can't do anything.

7:44 It's gotta go on the bottom we've.

7:45 Signed something to say we're gonna do.

7:47 Do. That.

7:48 That is actually so. Funny, they're really like,

7:51 that's really rigid on everything, Like because one of

7:54 the one of my team members was saying like, Oh, I've got an

7:56 extra marquee. We could, you know, set that up

7:58 and, and do this. And like, she was like saying,

8:00 oh, we could have some like painting or something for the

8:02 kids to do. And, and you know, like, that's

8:03 cool. And I'm like, oh, that would be

8:05 really awesome. But like Bunnings are like, no,

8:06 no, no, this is what you do. Nothing outside this box.

8:09 Yeah, I mean, it is very formulaic and it works.

8:12 It's it's generally a pretty good fundraise.

8:14 Yeah, it'll, it'll make us a bit of money.

8:16 Yeah. Yeah.

8:17 Just it's hard to find volunteers these days.

8:19 Oh, it's, and it's always the same people.

8:21 We were saying this the other day.

8:22 Yeah, you know, at school, it's always the same parents who are

8:26 volunteering at sports events, at all of that sort of stuff.

8:29 It's always the same people you see.

8:31 And look, I understand people have people work commitments and

8:35 life is really, really busy. But then also, if you want your

8:38 kids participating in all these extra things, sometimes you do

8:41 need to like put yourself out a bit and, and help out because

8:44 it's not fair that it always falls to the people who have

8:47 that social conscience to yeah, oh, fine, old bloody do the BBQ

8:51 or I'll do this or I'll do that or I'll volunteer.

8:53 I'll make this or. Yeah, because they're the same

8:55 people that, you know, the ones that do come along every time

8:57 when there's one that they really genuinely can't get to,

8:59 they kill but kick themselves so much, like over that and, you

9:02 know, beat themselves up going, oh, I feel really bad.

9:04 I can't help out. Like there's other people very,

9:06 very easily. Just say no to everything.

9:08 Yeah, I sometimes wish I was that person.

9:11 I wouldn't do. I know because we tend to be the

9:13 types of people who say yes. To everything and always I live

9:17 on the fact of like I did 4 years as the president of my

9:20 kids kinda yeah. That I'm entitled to say no now,

9:23 yeah, but then this and then I do it to myself and like the

9:27 whole yeah, but these are different people.

9:28 They don't know I've done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:34 You've done your time. I've done my time well and

9:35 truly, you've done your time. Well, this is my paid job and

9:37 I'm still volunteering though. Where's?

9:39 That come from yeah, that's that's a step above.

9:42 Actually that is a. Step above because to no benefit

9:44 of your children. No, that's what I keep saying.

9:46 It's I'm not benefiting my kids from this.

9:48 Yeah. But anyway, we will get there

9:50 and we will get through and we'll get some nice stuff for

9:52 the kids that are currently. Yeah, they're gonna use it.

9:54 And that's true. That's motivating for the

9:57 gorgeous little kids that's. It's in your.

9:59 Service, yeah. Yeah, it'll be fun and we'll

10:02 have a great day and freeze our. Butts off, but it's all good.

10:05 Well, at least you'll get a decent sausage.

10:07 Full male hands by the BBQ. Don't just don't get it.

10:11 Don't get your fingers too closed.

10:13 No, we'll melt ourselves off with that, you know, Hand.

10:15 What are they? They.

10:16 Yeah. Food.

10:17 Hands. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

10:19 I thought you meant hot hands. No.

10:20 Yeah, Very good. All right, I have a few shout

10:23 outs for today before we really get started.

10:25 We've got Mad Bullets, EPAV 1986, Buzz Grubo, Rebecca Hillam

10:33 all gave us really nice comments on socials this week.

10:36 Yeah, and then we had coffees bought for us by Jade, who

10:40 absolutely loves it when we call people a piece of shit.

10:43 So before. You do that this week.

10:45 Yeah, this one's for you, Jade. What a piece of shit.

10:50 And then Becky Wilson, who she's also bought us some coffees as

10:54 well. And she said that our podcast

10:56 gets her through a long and early days at work.

10:58 So thank you to both of you. Thank you to everybody who

11:01 comments good, bad and ugly. Yeah, the comments keep them

11:04 coming. Keep it coming yes no, it's

11:06 amazing. This week's again, another load

11:08 of lots of comments and things. This week's been great.

11:10 We're. Recording this just after we

11:12 released our 50th episode this week.

11:14 And we have had such amazing engagement off the back of the

11:17 50th episode. So thank you to everyone.

11:20 I even had a comment this morning.

11:22 I was at BFT and the guy who owns my BFT, he came up to me

11:25 and he's like, oh, so you've got a podcast, Do you?

11:28 I'm like, oh God, how do you know?

11:30 Yeah. And he said, and he's like,

11:31 well, you did like share it on social media.

11:34 I assume you want people to know.

11:36 And I'm like, oh, yeah, yes. I'm like.

11:39 And he goes, oh, well, I haven't listened to it yet.

11:41 And I'm like, oh. Cheers.

11:42 Thanks for your support. But he then he then said it's on

11:46 his agenda. So Blake, if you're listening to

11:48 this, thanks for listening. Thanks for giving it a go.

11:52 Thanks for the support, a minute's all it takes mate and.

11:55 Then yeah, that's right. That's right.

11:58 We'll take. It stay for the show, stay for

11:59 the lot. It's good.

12:00 It's good. This week's episode is an

12:04 absolute mindfuck. It really, really is.

12:08 And I have to say, like when I saw that was written down, which

12:11 episode we're doing, I read off of our thing like, because I

12:13 think you popped in quite a few of this of like a on our the

12:16 schedule. Yep.

12:17 And and I was like, Oh yes, I've been wanting to look into that

12:20 one. And I hadn't had time to deep

12:23 dive anything previously on it, but I'd heard about it and I'd

12:26 seen that there was ATV series about it and all these sorts of

12:29 things. So this was like my opportunity

12:30 to go. Finally I get to learn about

12:32 this and holy shit. Oh.

12:36 It's Oh my God. I mean, there's, so we're

12:39 talking about Christopher Dunch, Dr. Death.

12:41 He was the first Doctor death, I suppose.

12:44 But they've been several podcasts made by made about

12:47 other doctors who've also sort of gone down this path.

12:52 Yeah. But he, this guy's sort of the

12:54 OG in terms of the podcast that came out, the Doctor Death

12:57 podcast that came out. There's the series too, like so

13:00 there's Doctor Death is like the he's Christopher Dunch is the is

13:04 season 1. But then there's season 2, which

13:07 moves on to another fellow Makurini.

13:09 Yeah, we should do. Him one day too, because it's

13:11 just as. Yeah, he's an I sort of.

13:12 I've left it there at the moment going.

13:14 I'm coming back to this because I enjoyed it, but apparently

13:17 they're actually season 3 I think too.

13:19 I. Think later on this year.

13:20 Yeah, yeah. So that's interesting.

13:22 There's obviously this is it's an issue I think, I think.

13:26 Because because of the nature of the work that they do as, as

13:32 laypeople, even even professionals put their trust.

13:37 And when you go in for surgery, you think that the surgeon and

13:42 everybody in that operating room and every, all of the support

13:44 staff, all the ancillary staff are all there to make sure

13:48 you're going to be OK. And you know, they are highly

13:51 trained and highly skilled and and the outcome you know is

13:56 going to be good. Just as it can be.

13:58 Exactly. And then to find out what we end

14:01 up finding out throughout the course of of this case, it's,

14:04 it's actually terrifying. Oh, it really is.

14:07 And I'm sure it makes people second guess and research more,

14:10 which can't be a bad thing. But then also there's, you know,

14:14 you have, there has to be information out there in order

14:17 to be able to discover these things.

14:19 So I think there's a lot of complexity to this.

14:21 And oh. So much and I well again this is

14:23 in America and I know we've had we've certainly had an

14:26 Australian version of of our sort of doctor death I guess

14:29 here yeah which again another one we could probably look at

14:31 definitely down the track, but I think it's less so I wanna say I

14:35 feel like that the laws and things if have in America sort

14:38 of didn't help this situation. There was there was ways around

14:42 what you know, reporting things like.

14:44 Yeah, I agree. And I think the way that the

14:46 medical system works there, it's very insular.

14:48 So each state has state. Yeah, yeah.

14:50 Whereas in Australia we've got a national sort of, you know,

14:55 database, I guess, yes. So we it's, it's easier and also

14:59 if you think we're a population of what, 20 this.

15:01 Is, I mean, a population wise 300 million, Yeah.

15:05 It's a very different, you know, you really, you can't compare it

15:08 in terms of the population wise of how you manage the system

15:10 like that. Yeah.

15:11 But at the same time, oh, have someone moving around, there's

15:14 got to be a way to like track that.

15:15 Yeah, agreed. But yes, I mean so much in this

15:19 we can get into. Let's do it.

15:20 Let's. So Christopher Daniel Dunch was

15:23 born on the 3rd of April in 1971.

15:27 He's best known as being a neurosurgeon who, yeah, as we

15:32 said, has the nickname of Doctor Death in his early life,

15:37 Christopher Dunch. So he grew up in what has been

15:40 described as a very lovely, loving, caring family.

15:45 Yes. Which do you think that just is

15:47 at complete odds with what ends up coming out of it?

15:51 Yes, and because of what like we talked about in terms of our

15:56 experience of going to see that psychologist and what her her

15:59 nine sorry factors of making a serial killer, which is there's

16:04 a question mark over this in whether he fits that category or

16:08 not, which I get and I don't let me don't I'm not not ignoring

16:13 that fact, but there's aspects of him that I go.

16:17 Is he the outlier that I was referring to?

16:20 And I now feel like after now deep diving this, I wish I'd had

16:23 this information before that night to go only that makes.

16:27 Me think it is. So in terms of the serial killer

16:34 definition, they need to have killed more than four people.

16:37 Yes. And he's, he's like, we'll get

16:39 to, we'll get to all of this, but he killed two people.

16:42 But is that just because they stopped it before it happened?

16:45 Or maybe and there were other, you know, people.

16:47 Other factors, but there were people who the people who.

16:49 Permanently maimed, This is it. And to me that's it's, it's just

16:52 about it. It's to me that then puts it

16:54 into category of he just didn't, he wasn't effective.

16:57 Yeah. Potentially he wasn't effective

16:58 in any aspect. Well, in any aspect, yes.

17:00 No entirely, but yeah. So were they attempted?

17:03 Could they be considered attempted murders and therefore

17:06 fit the category? Of well, I think, I think one

17:09 could absolutely argue. That, yeah, yeah.

17:12 But we can get into it, yeah. His dad, his dad, Donald, was a

17:15 physical therapist in a Christian missionary, Yes.

17:18 So again, that kind of is at odds to what?

17:21 I mean, he's got a personality disorder anyway.

17:24 And then his mother, Susan, was a school teacher.

17:27 He had two brothers and one sister.

17:29 And they all like I, I tried to look into a little bit about

17:32 where they're at. There's nothing really out there

17:34 about them. If I was a sibling of his, I

17:36 would have distanced myself big time, big time.

17:39 So let's let. Them, well, even in the series I

17:41 know it's because I kind of got down a bit of I was trying to

17:43 find more about the siblings because in the series it

17:46 inferred that one of them maybe died, which I don't think is

17:50 actually real. I didn't see anything.

17:52 I can't find, I couldn't find that.

17:53 So I think that that was, you know, part of their, you know,

17:56 dramatization of it. So that's fine.

17:58 But yeah, 'cause the other thing that in the series that that

18:01 inferred in terms of the pair of parenting that potentially mum

18:08 enabled him a little bit, I guess in terms of really

18:12 boosting his confidence over and over again rather than giving

18:15 him some reality checks in life. But whether that's factual or

18:19 again, dramatization for this show, I'm not sure because I get

18:21 you couldn't get much. I couldn't find much out

18:24 because. Parents have never spoken out no

18:27 publicly no, nor have his siblings.

18:29 So that's probably quite difficult.

18:31 The only reason that we do know information about the family is

18:35 because Christopher or Dunch's friends have who've some of them

18:42 who've actually been implicated in all of this in a very

18:45 negative way. They've had experience and they

18:48 knew his family. So they've been able to give

18:50 their account to what he thought the family, what they thought

18:53 the family was like. But again, perspective from even

18:55 close family and friends can be very different to what's inside

18:58 the household. So it's really yeah.

19:01 Take take that what it is. Absolutely.

19:03 So they lived in Cordova, TN and he grew up playing as in Dutch

19:09 grew up playing football and he wanted nothing more than to be

19:13 drafted as an NFL like rookie player.

19:17 So he said his sites as to do that.

19:21 And in one of the documentaries I watched about this, they

19:24 interviewed one of his previous coaches and the coach basically

19:29 said I think it was a strength and conditioning coach.

19:31 But anyway, that's irrelevant. The coach actually said that he

19:36 wasn't great. He wasn't a very gifted player,

19:39 but he was determined. Yeah, worked his ass off, like

19:43 he would like repetitively do things to try and get it right,

19:47 but he just didn't have that natural talent.

19:49 No. And so I think I think he wanted

19:53 he eventually he did play college basketball, college

19:56 football, but he played in the third tier.

19:59 So he didn't make that sort of top tier that would then

20:01 potentially go on to be drafted into the NFL.

20:04 So of course, if he couldn't be the best, he didn't want to do

20:07 it. And so he kind of pivoted then

20:09 his. Desire his dream to He decided

20:13 to like go down the path of going to medical school, and so

20:17 he did that. But on the on that football side

20:19 of things, I feel like we go tick box on potentially one of

20:23 the nine factors of being a serial killer, whereas I dare

20:26 say there would have been head injuries, especially for someone

20:29 who clearly tried hard, like he put in 110% all the time,

20:33 apparently in respect to it. You'd be the last one at

20:35 training, you know, first one there.

20:37 You know, I dare say that head injuries certainly could have

20:40 been factored into that portion of his life.

20:44 Yeah, I think that's very safe to say.

20:46 And he played football from a very young age as well, so he

20:49 knows what kind of knocks he would have endured, you know,

20:51 throughout the course. Of absolutely, yeah.

20:53 He still continued to play college football even when he

20:58 decided once he'd sort of pivoted to yeah, but not in any

21:02 sort of he couldn't he? Was some sort of limitation to

21:06 how many times you can attempt to get into college football.

21:10 I think apparently 33 goes or something out and he had his

21:13 three attempts and that exhausted all possibilities of

21:16 getting anywhere with that. So yeah, just say he still

21:18 played, but it wasn't going to be to any level of, you know,

21:21 quality. Yeah.

21:22 Football at all? Yeah.

21:23 He completed his undergraduate degree at Memphis State

21:26 University in 1995. And then he went on and he was

21:30 actually accepted into an MDPHD program at the University of

21:34 Tennessee at Memphis College of Medicine.

21:38 Yeah. And he earned those degrees in

21:39 2001 and 2002. So he actually got his MD, Yes.

21:43 And then separate to that, a PhD as.

21:45 Well, so and I sort of go right, well, what's the difference?

21:48 So that's basically what I, the way I watched into was a medical

21:51 doctor. It gives you like the actual

21:52 practice of being able to perform those surgeries and

21:54 things like that. The PhD is the research side of

21:56 things. So it's quite different.

21:59 And apparently the research staff, like he's incredibly

22:02 intelligent is I should say, incredibly intelligent person.

22:06 And apparently the research stuff, he would really engross

22:08 himself in that and really do well.

22:10 So that I found that very interesting.

22:12 Finally, he stayed just doing the.

22:15 Research. But then he also sucked at at

22:17 the side of that. I think this is where his

22:19 personality sort of gets in his own way.

22:21 But yeah. Yeah.

22:22 So he in in completing this double sort of degree.

22:28 Well, the PhD and the MD, yeah, he so apparently in order to

22:34 graduate from the MD and once we're looking into his

22:40 neurosurgery fellowship. So this was sort of where things

22:44 were headed for him for the next phase of his of his career when

22:48 he was doing his residency. Apparently most surgeons will

22:54 complete around, I think it's 1000 surgeries during their

22:59 time. He completed a 100, yeah, a 10th

23:04 of that. And the excuse was that it was

23:06 because he was completing his PhD research project.

23:10 Yeah, that he didn't have the OR time and so, you know, that's

23:14 really detrimental. But somehow he was still allowed

23:17 to get through his residency. They still signed off on him.

23:20 Yeah, yeah, they still. Signed him off and signed him

23:23 off with like really good Marks and grades.

23:25 Everything was excellent good. Excellent, excellent.

23:28 And Eve. And during that time he was also

23:29 suspected of being under the influence of cocaine when he was

23:32 operating at one time that was during his fourth year of his

23:35 residency. And so they so we had to go and

23:40 they did actually send him to a facility which is actually just

23:43 like just for doctors and medical people, which we find

23:46 very interesting that it's required.

23:49 So he was sent off to a particular facility to

23:51 rehabilitate from potentially whatever this is an addiction

23:55 or, you know, use the use of drugs and things.

23:57 So there there was known not really completing a full extent

24:01 of his residency and a known drug problem and they still

24:05 signed off. On him.

24:06 Cool. Yeah, cool.

24:07 And. Actually, no, you're not just

24:08 cool, you're awesome. Like he, you know.

24:11 Well, I. Think he told people he was.

24:13 Awesome. This is the thing.

24:14 That's it. There's a lot of that that went

24:16 on, I think, where he talked himself into, you know,

24:20 situations and like telling people what he didn't, he did

24:23 do, yes, rather than what he couldn't do.

24:25 Yeah, that's exactly right. Like he, he definitely blew

24:29 smoke up his own ass. That's well.

24:31 Truly. Well and truly, yeah.

24:33 During this time. So this is in 2011.

24:36 Now, he frequented strip clubs in Memphis and he actually met a

24:43 woman by the name of Wendy Renee Young.

24:46 Wendy, they began their relationship pretty much

24:48 straight away. He, you know, saved her from

24:52 strip clubs in the strip club life.

24:54 When a hero comes along, I haven't.

24:58 Heard that one. For a while.

25:00 And the first time they slept together, Yeah, she fell

25:04 pregnant with their first child. I didn't know that.

25:07 Yes, the first. Time.

25:08 Oh God. That poor woman.

25:10 That poor. So she was essentially trapped.

25:12 Yeah. Right from the get go.

25:14 Around this time was the time where he had to decide where he

25:18 was going to work and where he's going to establish himself.

25:21 Yeah. And because he was a

25:23 neurosurgery now fellow, he was very well regarded because I

25:28 think he told people how amazing he was.

25:30 And he'd done on paper. On paper, he was very

25:32 impressive. Yeah.

25:34 And so he had offers from all around the country.

25:36 And they eventually decided because Wendy was from Dallas

25:42 and she wanted to sort of relocate there if they were

25:44 going to go anywhere, they decided to to go to Dallas.

25:47 And he was actually offered a fellowship at Baylor Plano.

25:53 Yep. And they which was an incredibly

25:55 is still to this day, although it does have a little bit of a

25:59 mark on its name after all this. Oh yeah.

26:02 Plano was a very well regarded tertiary hospital.

26:06 So it was a tier one hospital. They did all of the, you know,

26:11 very specialized surgeries there.

26:12 It was a very well regarded institution.

26:15 Yeah. And they were delighted to have

26:17 somebody of Dunce's credentials. Credentials.

26:21 Yeah, come and join them in their neurosurgery department.

26:24 So it's fascinating. So what happened when they moved

26:28 down to Dallas? Dunch was offered from Baylor

26:32 Plano. He was offered a $600,000 a year

26:35 salary. And then there were bonuses and

26:37 extras on top of that, I think. He could was basically looking

26:39 about at 1.2 million. A year or something, roughly,

26:42 Yeah, I think you're right. Between 1,000,000 and 1.2

26:44 million a year. Yeah, in bringing Wendy and he

26:49 actually ended up bringing his friend from university as well,

26:52 Jess down to Dallas and they all live together in this absolutely

27:00 stunning apartment. Now I say apartment and people

27:02 probably think it's this dingy little no, this is luxury,

27:06 massive size of a house type apartment in a really

27:09 prestigious part of Dallas. And, you know, all during this

27:14 time, Chris and Wendy were, you know, essentially starting to

27:19 build a life. Genuine de facto relationship

27:21 really. I mean they were and having

27:23 child and. Pregnant with their first child?

27:26 Yeah, it's still early days in their relationship if we're

27:28 thinking about it like that. Yeah, Yeah.

27:30 That's very, yeah, that's full on for anyone, you know, to have

27:33 that happen. I mean, yeah, I can't imagine

27:35 like you've just met someone and now you're having a baby with

27:38 them. Really haven't you don't know

27:39 who that person is. And I think she really had any

27:42 idea who she didn't. She does save up with in

27:44 interviews that he begged her to have an abortion and she said

27:50 that that wasn't something she was willing to do.

27:53 She also for the fact that he kind of dragged her out of her

27:56 work at the strip club meant that he cut her off from her

28:00 source of income. Yeah.

28:02 And so he kind of then agreed to have the baby, too.

28:06 They've moved to Dallas. She was kind of trapped in that.

28:08 She had no money. No, she had no way out.

28:10 She was pregnant. And she kind of just went along

28:15 with things. Yeah, that's hard.

28:16 I mean like, oh. It would have been an awful

28:18 situation. For her to be in, yeah, Oh gosh.

28:22 At the end of his at the end of medical school, though, he was

28:28 in about half $1,000,000 worth of debt.

28:30 So the advance that he got from going down to Baylor basically

28:34 meant that, you know, his debt would be wiped very, very

28:37 quickly. And, you know, they could, he

28:39 could really establish himself. And because he felt like he was

28:41 just, you know, it in a bit and got a gift to the world, he saw

28:45 that there was not going to be any issues with that.

28:47 Yeah, Unfortunately, very, very early on in his time at Baylor.

28:53 Plano he did not make a very good impression on, especially

28:59 on the other surgeons and the nursing staff in the operating

29:02 room. This blows my mind actually, in

29:04 terms of doctors and nurses, you know, especially in these sorts

29:08 of surgery, in surgeries, I think it's a different world and

29:12 I get to a degree. You have to be very confident in

29:15 what you're doing. You have to be a particular type

29:18 of person to be able to, you know, basically you've got a

29:20 person's life in your hands on the table.

29:23 They are 100% vulnerable and relying on you to do your job to

29:28 have them come out of this one alive, but also better than they

29:32 came in. And I do understand that you

29:36 need you definitely need a certain personality to be able

29:38 to do that and be able to walk away from it unscathed yourself

29:42 in terms of the the pressure of that.

29:44 However, I do really struggle with the fact that not many

29:48 people spoke up like about what went on in the moment I

29:54 actually. I think people tried to in the

29:55 moment when he shut them down. I think it would be so difficult

29:59 because in an operating theatre, there's a hierarchy, Yes.

30:03 And the surgeon is at the top of.

30:04 Yeah. And so to question the head of

30:07 that room would be very, very difficult.

30:11 Really, I struggle with that in terms of like, I mean, I do, I

30:15 get it. But oh shit, like that's there's

30:17 a point where you've got to be like, get this guy the fuck out

30:20 of here. They did try like we'll get to

30:22 this as we talk through nursing staff who had a lot of

30:26 experience as you know, theater technicians, all of that sort of

30:30 stuff. They knew what a surgery

30:34 entailed and they could see that things were wrong and they would

30:37 question things or point to different.

30:40 Structures of an. Absolutely.

30:41 Like, oh, is that the right place or is that the right field

30:44 of view that you've got there? Yeah.

30:47 And that's what flaws me of like coming out of that then that

30:51 surely they all like would Holy shit, he did this talking and

30:54 then taking it and reporting it to people that who then should

30:57 have bloody done absolutely, which there's just.

31:00 So many points in this. Yeah.

31:01 That that where money. Yeah.

31:03 And being sued became more important to the hospitals than

31:09 people's lives, which is disgusting.

31:11 Absolutely. So let's go through his.

31:14 Yeah. Baylor.

31:15 OK, cool. And then we can kind of talk to

31:17 each one now. It's probably worth noting now

31:20 that he over the course of the next what year and a few years,

31:25 he actually only did surgery on 38 patients.

31:28 Thank God it was only 38. He maimed or injured or had the

31:33 people had worse outcomes in 30 three of those 38 cases.

31:38 Yeah, two of them being death. Two of them being death, one of

31:42 them being a quadriplegic. Yeah, coming out of

31:44 quadriplegic. And that's his best friend.

31:46 Yeah, but the, so we're not going to go through every single

31:49 patient, but the there is definitely a pattern and most of

31:53 the patients experienced a very similar pattern.

31:55 So yeah, the first patient I was going to talk about, he operated

31:59 on LED Lee Passmore in December of 2011.

32:02 Yeah, Lee, I believe, was a Collin County medical

32:07 investigator that. Blew my mind when I read that.

32:10 I know it. It just, I was like, well, you

32:13 have all people. You'd think that he, I mean,

32:14 well, OK, this is where you kind of get to this point.

32:16 Like a medical investigator has chosen him to be his surgeon.

32:20 Yep. So he's not silly.

32:22 He knows what the lay of the land of like who's who's out

32:24 there in terms of doctors and stuff that goes on.

32:27 He'd have connections, I'm sure of like, well, who do I go to

32:29 for this? And that's where I think this is

32:32 where legally this undoes Chris Dunge a little bit in terms of

32:36 like, he falsified what, like his status of, you know, he

32:41 would somehow wipe the Internet of any negative feedback on him.

32:46 You know, he put out false ads and false awards that he he'd

32:49 won, you know, and all sorts of things to gather, you know, good

32:54 reviews so that people would come to him.

32:56 It's it's disgusting that then, you know, obviously this man,

32:59 you know, intelligent person fell for his propaganda that he

33:04 put out. Absolutely, yeah.

33:06 So he, Lee experienced chronic pain and limited mobility after

33:12 he'd had the surgery with Dunn. Yeah, apparently during the this

33:17 particular surgery, I think he was having like it was maybe a

33:22 discectomy or something like that.

33:23 Apparently it was a fairly routine ish type of.

33:27 Well, this is the thing, neurosurgery, all of his

33:30 surgeries that he was doing, they were what what surgeons

33:34 would consider fairly routine. Some of them were literally you

33:36 don't even stay much more than overnight for afterwards, like

33:38 it's, you know, day surgeries, that sort of stuff.

33:41 However, you're dealing with the spine.

33:44 Yeah, which is it's like, I mean, there's nerves

33:46 ridiculously like you. So there it is, the.

33:48 Potential for the potential. For complications is there, but

33:50 if you do it as it's supposed to be done, it's a very simple

33:53 situation. Apparently that's, I mean, I'm,

33:56 I'm not a doctor and so I don't want to downplay what they do by

33:59 any means because I certainly wouldn't want to be operating

34:01 someone's spine. But apparently.

34:03 For this particular surgery, there's always a vascular

34:07 surgeon who gives access to the site.

34:09 Yes, And in this particular case, the vascular surgeon was a

34:12 man by the name of Randall Kirby.

34:14 He was a very experienced vascular surgeon and I.

34:18 Had Mark Coyle as the assistant. Oh, was.

34:20 He maybe it's a vascular surge. Maybe.

34:24 But apparently he said that it looked like he didn't know what

34:27 he was doing right from the get go.

34:29 No. And it was really, really scary.

34:33 Yeah. Post surgery, Lee was

34:35 experiencing severe pain, like far more than what he was

34:39 experiencing when he went into it.

34:41 And X-rays showed that the cage that he'd used to stabilize

34:47 that, I think maybe it was a spinal fusion.

34:49 I actually can't remember. Yeah.

34:51 But the cage that he'd used had been misaligned.

34:54 Yeah. He put a screw through a nerve,

34:58 so he struck the. Threads of that screw as well.

35:02 And what happened was that so they couldn't take it out

35:04 because it had been stripped and then.

35:06 But even if they did manage to get it out, he would have bled

35:09 to death. Yeah.

35:10 So he had. They had to leave it in.

35:12 Yeah. So he said his pain was like

35:14 nerve pain, sharp pain. He was was incontinent.

35:18 And one of his his favorite pastimes was swimming and

35:21 running. And he hasn't been able to do

35:22 that again since. No.

35:24 So you think that would have raised what should have been a

35:29 simple procedure? And he's had multiple

35:31 complications from this. You would think that would raise

35:34 alarm bells, but no. Well, apparently even during

35:37 that surgery, apparently Hoyle the the vascular surgeon, he

35:40 apparently like physically restrained dumped during that

35:44 surgery to try and stop him from doing what he did.

35:47 And so there was as there were people definitely trying to stop

35:51 him, but there wasn't that next level of after the fact going.

35:54 This is not he cannot go back, cannot go back in theatre.

35:57 No. The second patient that I wanted

35:59 to talk about is Barry Mogoloff. This surgery happened in January

36:03 of 2012. He came out of his surgery, so

36:06 he was the owner of a pool servicing company.

36:08 So he had a fairly physical job. He definitely needed mobility

36:13 and he basically wanted surgery because the pain that he was

36:18 experiencing from, again, I think it was a bulging disc.

36:20 And then he had nerve pain associated with that.

36:23 Yeah. He it just got to a point where

36:25 he actually couldn't, you know, partake in his day-to-day tasks

36:29 and work was getting more difficult.

36:30 So he made the decision to seek the, I don't know, the council

36:34 of a, of a, of a neurosurgeon to see what could be done.

36:39 Yeah. And in doing so, he was

36:41 recommended Dunch. And Dunch was like, oh, I'll fix

36:45 you. You'll be pain free by the time

36:46 I'm you walk out of my surgery. Yeah.

36:49 He came out of the surgery in extreme pain.

36:52 Now, Barry actually had a drug abuse history, and Dunch used

36:59 this as an excuse for him saying that he was in pain and wanting

37:03 to get more Medicaid, more like opioids or whatever it was that

37:08 he was prescribing. So he was actually in extreme

37:11 pain because Dunch had fucked up the surgery.

37:13 Yeah, but he said, Oh no, you're just saying you're in extreme

37:17 pain so you can get more drugs. You're just drug seeking.

37:19 Yeah, call him a drug seeker, which is just fucking asshole.

37:22 Awful it was. He was left with bone fragments

37:25 in his spinal canal. And then and also, yeah, he

37:29 tried to he pulled out, tried to pull out a damaged disk with

37:34 using like some grabbing tool, which is like just not how that

37:37 should be done at all. Like there was so many things

37:39 that went wrong in this, I believe.

37:42 Was Kirby on this case with him? Yes.

37:44 Yeah. So this is where Kirby comes

37:46 into play. And he he saw what was going on

37:49 here and was absolutely mortified.

37:51 Well, didn't Kirby say to him during this surgery like he had

37:54 to? He said he had to define the

37:58 anatomy for him and locate the anatomy for him because he knew

38:01 he was operating in the wrong area.

38:03 Yes. Like, he couldn't even define.

38:06 And I mean, this goes far beyond this.

38:09 This patient, too. He didn't know what he was

38:12 looking at. No.

38:13 When he opened people up, he had no idea.

38:16 He like. Anyway, we will get to that even

38:18 more. Yeah.

38:19 So Barry ended up getting a second opinion after this

38:23 surgery, and the second surgeon who went in to review the first

38:27 surgery that Dunge had botched basically said to Barry that it

38:33 looked like a bomb had gone off. In the back, yeah, yeah.

38:37 To this day, Barry lives with extreme pain.

38:40 He's in a wheelchair. Yeah, he can't.

38:42 He can't move his legs. He's got limited mobility.

38:44 Apparently he can kind of like swing his legs, but not He can't

38:48 wait there. He's.

38:49 Inner so I mean that's his job gone, you know, like.

38:53 That's it. He after the surgery and after

38:57 he'd had the revision and he had the support of that second

39:00 neurosurgeon who did help him, it meant that he was able to get

39:05 very limited but some mobility back and definitely lessen the

39:08 pain that he was in. Yeah.

39:10 He wrote a letter to the medical board and the medical board,

39:12 eventually, I'm talking, I think it was like 8 months later,

39:16 responded to him and said that after their investigation, it

39:20 was determined that this basic standard of care had been met in

39:23 his case. Oh, you.

39:24 Can't even. Can't even.

39:26 Can't Even so. Doctor Randall Kirby, who we

39:29 were referring to who assisted in that surgery, he was also

39:32 called in to basically review a number of of Dunge's cases after

39:37 that there was injuries and things beyond the surgery.

39:40 And he similar to that surgeon that you were talking about

39:43 there. He made comments of like that it

39:45 was he he performed situations of like that would be called a

39:47 crazed maniac really performing. Yeah, right.

39:51 In the in the his, the injuries and testify his his

39:56 investigation into all of it. Like basically said that he felt

39:59 that it was highlighting A deliberate attempt by Dunge to

40:01 kill his patients. Yeah.

40:03 He really honestly believed that there was no other other

40:07 explanation, that no one could perform a surgery of that extent

40:11 and leave that much damage without just basically wanting

40:15 to kill the the patient on the table.

40:16 I think it was his hubris that got him there.

40:19 I like whether he thought he was gonna kill them or not.

40:22 I think he's almost a moot point this.

40:23 Oh, yeah, I yeah, he just thought he was.

40:26 He got gift to the world and he knew.

40:28 He knew best. And yeah, yeah, it was horrible.

40:30 The next situation I wanna talk about is the one that really

40:33 fucking. Gets me, yeah.

40:36 Jerry Summers. Yes.

40:38 February 2012. He had.

40:39 He went in for surgery. This is his best friend from

40:42 high school. Yeah.

40:43 They played high school football together.

40:45 They were living together in Dunce's apartment in Dallas.

40:49 He followed Dunce from Tennessee to Dallas.

40:55 They were best friends. Oh, yeah.

40:58 And Dunce was like, yeah, I can fix your back pain, no worries.

41:01 Yeah, it was his neck. So he had he.

41:05 Had in a car accident I think so of course the neck pain.

41:07 Yeah, so he had, he was meant to go in and have two neck

41:11 vertebrae fused. And apparently this is fairly as

41:14 and don't just said this to him. It's.

41:16 Oh, it's an easy surgery. It's very straightforward,

41:18 routine surgery. No worries.

41:19 Just come and we'll get it fixed and we'll get you sorted out and

41:21 you'll be good as new. And that's not a lie.

41:24 As in. Yeah, that's how that should

41:26 have gone. Yep.

41:27 But God, did it not go that way? No.

41:30 So Kimberly Morgan, let's introduce her at this.

41:34 Oh yeah, yeah. So Dunch decided to employ a

41:38 nurse practitioner to assist him in his practice.

41:41 So he'd set up a practice called like at the Minimally Invasive

41:45 Spine Institute or something like that at Bella Plano in

41:49 order to assist him with all of the post op sort of care.

41:53 And also in surgery, he employed a woman by the name of Kimberly

41:58 Morgan. She was a doctor.

42:00 No, no, she was a nurse. Nurse practicer.

42:02 OK. Yes.

42:03 Right. She.

42:06 She was essentially his assistant.

42:08 Yeah. And immediately upon hiring her,

42:13 they commenced an affair. She said that they would hook up

42:19 two or three times a week at the office.

42:22 Yeah. They would lie together on the

42:24 couch. Gross.

42:27 This is while, you know, Wendy's at home with a young son, I

42:32 think. Was he born yet or not yet born?

42:36 No, he wasn't yet born. He wasn't yet born.

42:37 No. Oh, no, sorry.

42:39 He was he that it would have been a brand new baby.

42:41 He was born in 20. 11 Yeah, they have a second in 2011.

42:44 That's a little bit. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

42:45 So this, their first son, Aiden, was born at this point.

42:48 Yeah. Dunch had completely lost

42:50 interest in Wendy. He was at the birth of their

42:55 son, but that was about it. He basically wanted the glory of

43:00 delivering his child and then didn't really provide a huge

43:03 amount of other support. Sounds like he's patient,

43:05 doesn't he's a shit. Fucking piece of shit.

43:08 He was just happy going off and and yeah, having relations with

43:13 Morgan. Yeah, unbelievable.

43:15 Yeah. The, the I'm gonna, this is an

43:19 American term, the anaesthesiologist, the

43:21 anaesthetist on for this particular case with Jerry

43:25 Summers, she said the interactions between Kimberly

43:29 and Dunch during this surgery, She said she has never

43:34 encountered anything so unprofessional in her life.

43:39 For example, Dunch said to Kimberly, pass me the drill.

43:43 She passes in the drill and he's like, I'd like to drill you

43:45 later. Oh, oh, that's just disgusting.

43:49 Your best friend is lying on the table that.

43:56 But even in any surgery, oh, other people are in that room

44:00 regardless. I just can't.

44:04 That's just like, oh, and what the hell like that?

44:07 What that's meant to turn you on?

44:09 Oh, she was turned on by it. She loved it.

44:12 Oh, who are these people? Oh fuck, I know.

44:16 According to the anaesthetist who was on that day, she was,

44:19 she's a really lovely woman. Very.

44:22 She seemed like I'd like her to be my anaesthetist.

44:24 She was very sort of practically.

44:26 Normally not really like the warmest of people, usually

44:29 anaesthetist. Yeah, she's, she was, she seemed

44:33 she you could tell she'd have control over any situation.

44:36 She just seemed to be that type of person.

44:40 According to her, during this type of surgery, the typical

44:43 blood loss is somewhere around 50 millilitres.

44:46 Yeah, in Jerry's surgery he lost 1.2 litres of blood 1/5.

44:53 Of his bodily bod, his body weight, his body in blood.

44:57 Volume. Volume, yes.

44:58 So basically what she was saying is normally you'd see some pink

45:02 stained, you know, packs and stuff, you know, that are coming

45:06 in and out of the body, She said.

45:07 There were sopping blood, sopping packs that he was using

45:14 to try and stem the bleeding. You know, because there was so

45:18 much blood loss. He ended up using this gel stuff

45:22 that kind of helps to coagulate and stop bleeding.

45:25 But he used so much of it. And this goes to further the

45:30 complications for Jerry in. The surgery that constricts the

45:34 spinal cord. Yes.

45:35 But, and he used so much of it that it basically, well,

45:38 according to reviews from other surgeons, post surgery, Jerry

45:43 was essentially decapitate, almost decapitated.

45:46 Yeah. That's just unbelievable.

45:49 Now Jerry came out of that surgery alive, but barely.

45:53 He couldn't move his arms and legs when he woke up the.

45:56 Thing was then at that point too, apparently, what what was

45:59 created in that surgery. The issue can be maybe not

46:04 entirely, but he could have had another surgery very quickly

46:07 after that could have really helped the situation and

46:11 potentially rectified. Well, it wouldn't have, wouldn't

46:14 have come, wouldn't. Have been as as bad.

46:16 I'm not saying it would have been, you know, all like fixed

46:18 entirely, but they could have certainly done something to

46:21 assist in that situation of like, you know, a bit of an

46:24 issue and we can fix it to this degree and we can get something

46:27 back at least. But Dunch refused to do that.

46:30 Well, Dunch didn't even go and see him.

46:32 No, this is his best mate. He's named him.

46:35 Didn't even go and see him. So Jerry was frustrated.

46:38 Now, Jerry and Dunch, in their past, they'd done cocaine

46:43 together, LSD. Jerry admits he was a drug

46:46 dealer for a while and he'd partied with Dunch on many, many

46:52 multiples of occasions. Yes.

46:54 So Jerry, in order to get Dunch's attention, he said to

46:58 one of the nurses. Dunch and I were doing 8 balls

47:01 last night. Yeah, before his surgery.

47:03 Before the surgery. Yeah, he needs to come and sort

47:06 this out. Yeah, Jerry later on says we

47:08 won't, we won't. And Dunch was subjected to a

47:13 urinary drug test based on these allegations, which he passed.

47:17 But he didn't go and do the drug test straight away.

47:20 He knew the half life of the Medicare, of the drugs that he'd

47:23 consumed and when he'd consumed them.

47:25 Yeah, So he just timed it right. Yeah.

47:27 As you said, he's not an. Idiot.

47:28 No. Far from an idiot,

47:30 unfortunately. Yeah, yeah.

47:31 So he just, he put it off and put it off.

47:33 Yeah. Didn't answer his phone.

47:35 Oh, you want me to come in for a drug test?

47:36 Oh yeah, sure. I'll come in for a drug test

47:38 today. I know I'm going to be clean

47:40 because. Yeah, when I now I'm ready to.

47:42 Yeah. Because I mean, this is the

47:44 thing. No, they didn't do it the night

47:45 before. As Jerry said, he, he, he has

47:47 admitted that. But it was probably the night

47:49 before that like, you know, it was, it was, it wasn't as if,

47:52 you know, it wasn't, you know, sometime in that week prior to

47:55 the surgery that he would have been doing that sort of thing.

47:57 He was a regular drug user. Yep.

47:59 By the time, just awful. By the time a revision surgery

48:02 was scheduled for Jerry. So they actually did.

48:05 They move him to a different hospital.

48:08 I believe they did. I think they had.

48:11 Sorry, yes, by the time they had moved him it was too late.

48:15 It's too. Late.

48:16 They didn't do anything. No, Yeah, yeah.

48:19 So he, he remained A quadriplegic and but he died in

48:23 2021 of an injection related complication from denture

48:27 surgery. So ultimately I actually put him

48:31 in the category of that he is responsible for his death.

48:33 Ohh for. Sure.

48:34 So as much as we say there was only two people who died of

48:37 surgeries for him, that was on the table practically, yeah.

48:40 Whereas I Jerry, I think he suffered.

48:44 He was a fucking. He was.

48:46 He walked into the. He he was just he had a stiff

48:49 neck like, you know, pain and that from his neck and yeah,

48:52 let's and look chronic for chronic pain.

48:54 Let's not joke about that. People who suffer from chronic

48:56 pain for their like I there it is awful, absolutely awful.

49:00 And I can imagine like going in for surgery and going this is

49:01 going to fix that would be relief and amazing.

49:05 Yeah, to be able to continue in your life without that daily

49:07 pain would be phenomenal. But take that over quadriplegia

49:13 any day. Oh, of course.

49:16 Just. And then death.

49:17 Because yeah, ultimately he did 'cause his death.

49:19 Yep. Oh, that's the hospital.

49:21 Baylor Plano suspended Dutch for three weeks pending the

49:24 investigation. Like about the drugs and the

49:26 drug test and all of that sort of stuff.

49:28 Yeah. And then when Jerry admitted to

49:30 the hospital that he was lying about the 8 ball the night

49:32 before, they reinstated his privileges without without so

49:36 much as a question. That just blows my mind.

49:38 I I can't. It's it's, it's fucked.

49:41 It's actually fucked. Yeah.

49:43 Kelly Martin is the next person I want to talk about.

49:46 Her surgery was in March of 2012.

49:50 She was undergoing what they called like a decompression

49:56 operation. Yeah, routine.

49:58 Again, routine, nothing sort of out of the ordinary.

50:02 Probably it is considered the simplest spine surgery that

50:04 there is. Apparently she'd been getting

50:07 Christmas decorations out of the attic and she'd had a full and.

50:11 Full ladder off the. Ladder and, you know, had it had

50:13 compressed her spine and she was in a fair amount of pain

50:16 according to her family, yes. And so it got to the point where

50:20 they were like, well, of course, like we're going to now do

50:22 something about it and see. And again, Dutch came very

50:25 highly recommended, but. He's false.

50:27 Reviews. Yep, all of that.

50:29 Yeah. It was actually the GP or her

50:31 family Doctor Who recommended Yeah, because he'd gone around,

50:34 or actually Kimberly had gone around to all of the local

50:38 family medical practices, like the GP practices, and given his

50:43 card out to say, look, if you're new, you know, yeah.

50:45 Sparuking, you know the work for him.

50:48 Yeah. And this GP was like, oh, well,

50:51 you need a neurosurgeon. Oh, here, this guy's amazing.

50:53 Yeah. Just ask him.

50:54 He'll. Just ask him.

50:56 Oh God, yeah, yeah, he. Said to he said to Kelly and her

51:00 family who were in the initial pre op consultation.

51:04 I know exactly how to fix it. OK, well let's just see.

51:08 It was a one hour surgery. She was only meant to be in for

51:11 the day. Yeah.

51:12 And they said she could go home that day.

51:14 So I love the fact she's got 2 at this stage, 2 adult daughters

51:19 and her husband. And they went to hospital with

51:22 her. They were waiting in the waiting

51:23 room. And her husband had done a

51:25 little bit of research into what this operation entailed.

51:29 And he said I knew that it was and, and Dutch had told him it'd

51:33 be about an hour. So they're waiting in the

51:35 waiting room and they're like, oh, this is strange.

51:37 It's taking a really long time. Couple of hours sort of thing,

51:39 which is. It was a couple of hours, I

51:41 think, yeah, well, let's go and ask and see what's going on.

51:43 Yeah. So they go to the nurses station

51:45 and the nurses and they said can we speak to the surgeon?

51:48 Like what, what's happening? Dunge comes out of the surgery,

51:51 comes and speaks to them and basically says that everything's

51:57 fine, don't even worry. She had a bit of a reaction to

51:59 the anaesthesia. We're just getting that all.

52:01 Blaming someone else blaming. Someone else.

52:03 So the family are like, oh, OK. So they sit back down in the

52:06 waiting room. They're waiting and waiting and

52:08 waiting again. And then they see one of the

52:11 nurses who'd done one of the pre op checks for Kelly and they go

52:15 up to him and they say to him where's mum?

52:18 Like what's going on? You're out of surgery.

52:20 And they're like, oh, didn't you know, she's been taken to the

52:22 ICU. She's not even on this floor

52:24 anymore. She's yeah, being moved ICU and

52:26 they were like. What?

52:28 So they've been waiting there for I think it was. 4 hours,

52:30 yeah. And they didn't.

52:32 Dunge didn't even have the balls to tell them that she'd been

52:36 taken. To the I don't.

52:37 Know if he. Didn't think.

52:38 He didn't think to. That was not.

52:40 That was not his prerogative. Like, you know, like that wasn't

52:42 his. Oh, it's, oh, it's just awful.

52:45 So According to him, she was having issues coming out of the

52:48 anaesthesia. The anaesthetist couldn't get

52:51 her BP under control and they were like, well, why?

52:55 Like what's going on? Turns out Dunge during the

52:58 surgery had put drainage tubes in.

53:02 At the conclusion of the surgery, which didn't even

53:05 really actually happen, he took the drainage tubes out instead

53:09 of keeping them in if there was some bleeding to drain away any

53:12 bleeding and that way they could keep an eye on what was going

53:15 on. He's sewn her up and she's still

53:18 bleeding internally. Because he he like cut a, cut an

53:21 artery, Yeah. Like but he didn't fix it, no.

53:25 He just stood right back up. Yeah.

53:27 And she's bleeding internally. Her blood pressure is

53:30 plummeting. Because she woke up like and was

53:34 in was screaming in pain and she was so agitated.

53:38 And I mean, I mean awful. She said my legs, my legs there.

53:41 Yeah, absolute agony. And then the nurses like, pulled

53:44 the blankets up and her legs were blue.

53:47 Yuck. Oh, her legs were blue.

53:49 They had to re anaesthetize her because of her, because of her

53:53 reaction and so. They thought Dunsch would take

53:55 her immediately back into. Surgery.

53:57 Sort this out he. Didn't.

53:58 No, he refused to like. Like this is something that

54:02 could have been fixed. Yes.

54:04 I mean, yes, it would have been a long road ahead for her

54:08 because of just everything that she'd experienced.

54:10 It would have been so hard. But he should have taken her

54:14 back into surgery at. Least repaired that artery like

54:17 she's like literally going to cardiac arrest and he was

54:20 outside of her room on his phone.

54:23 Typing notes apparently, or typing on like typing messages

54:26 on this phone. All the ICU attending was

54:31 managing her care, when really it should have.

54:34 Been mentioned should it wasn't even couldn't even give a shit.

54:37 No, he he didn't even go in to check on her or see what was

54:41 going on or how they were helping or what they were doing.

54:43 No. So unfortunately, ultimately she

54:46 she bled to death. I just wanted to note as well,

54:49 in autopsy they found that he'd actually been operating more

54:54 than an inch away from where he should have been.

54:58 I mean, it's like that's a huge distance from where he should be

55:01 in terms of that sort of stuff that you you'd be talking

55:04 millimetres in terms of how far away you should like.

55:07 As in like apparently even 3 millimetres would have caused it

55:10 catastrophic. Like this is how precise you

55:13 need to be. You're a fucking neurosurgeon.

55:17 It's it's disgusting. It's disgusting.

55:20 Baylor removed his privileges. They allowed him to resign.

55:24 This is what gets me same and this is where I find.

55:27 Them liable on Baylor as well 100%.

55:30 This should never been like they just wanted to escape him

55:33 basically claiming false termination of his position.

55:39 Like I mean I'm sorry but fight that.

55:41 You're not terminating someone on false allegations.

55:44 He needed to be terminated. Have your lawyers work it out.

55:47 What I've heard them saying is that they didn't want to

55:50 terminate. I mean, the hospital haven't

55:52 said this. This is all speculation, but it

55:53 makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, that.

55:56 So a surgeon, like a neurosurgeon, let's say he earns

56:01 1.2 million a year. Yeah.

56:03 If he's terminated and then cannot work again because his.

56:07 Yeah, license is revoked due to this termination, Yes.

56:10 Or due to being reported, then what?

56:12 What is it they're liable for? Yeah, Potentially 30 years at

56:16 $1.2 million. Sixty.

56:17 Odd $1,000,000 they could liable for I get that.

56:20 But but but but I don't because at the end of the day you've got

56:23 just cause to terminate. Yes, this.

56:25 Is what I mean like as you and I get it that that's a lot of

56:27 money, but you've got an argument that is absolutely to

56:30 me waterproof like watertight that you can argue that this guy

56:34 should not be operating on anyone.

56:36 He needs to be have his license revoked and you're it'll stand

56:40 that you terminated him for good reason.

56:42 That's it. But instead they kick the can

56:43 down the road and. Someone else had a problem?

56:45 That is literally what happened. Yes.

56:47 He lasted 3 months at Baylor Plano, right?

56:51 Three months. Three months and how many

56:52 patients did he absolutely fuck us Hospital.

56:57 Yeah, that was all for money in there.

56:59 Because, because he was, because he resigned, Yeah.

57:03 There was no mark on his record whatsoever.

57:05 So when he approached Dallas Medical Center, yeah, to come on

57:09 board and he was like, I'm going to set up a neurosurgery, you

57:12 know, state-of-the-art operation for you.

57:16 Yeah. Dallas Medical Center were like

57:18 fucking a yeah, a neurosurgeon will typically typically bring

57:23 in a revenue of around $3,000,000 to a hospital every

57:28 year. So for Dallas Medical Centre,

57:32 which was probably a a tier below Baylor Plano, yeah, a

57:36 second tier hospital, they were like, oh, sweet.

57:39 Bring him in this. Is great yeah take the 3 million

57:41 in record again and all that money and if and then having him

57:45 here because he's so amazing yeah he'll attract other

57:47 neurosurgeons and we can build up and we can become a.

57:50 Tier one place, yeah, that's right, a place to go for.

57:53 Neurosurgery in Dallas. Yeah, this is what they're

57:55 thinking. They didn't do any other

57:59 verification. They looked to see if he was

58:02 potentially going to be investigated for anything that

58:04 wasn't which. Part of the agreement with

58:06 leaving Bain and Plano was that they would write a a a reference

58:10 basically saying that he wasn't being investigated.

58:12 He had a letter from them. Basically, yeah.

58:14 And that was it. And so they, they learned that

58:15 and went, oh, OK, there's not, there's nothing to worry about

58:17 are. You leaving bail of Plano after

58:19 three months. To my.

58:20 Prestigious appointment. Yeah, that's got a red flag.

58:24 Right, a red flag. Ask questions.

58:27 Ask the hard questions. Reference check like speak to

58:31 doctor Kirby who's actually been in surgeries with him speak to

58:33 those people and they would have said don't touch him with it.

58:36 Do not ten foot barge pole like I think that's where this the

58:41 whole system is just. Not it's right.

58:43 Yeah. The next page, so the first

58:45 patient that he operated on at Dallas Medical Center, which

58:51 happened in July of 2012 was Shirley Mock.

58:55 He left loose hardware in her back and that needed to be

59:00 reviewed by another surgeon. So immediately, this was day one

59:05 basically of him being there. There was like a bit of a

59:08 question about does he actually know what's going on?

59:12 What's happening here? Again, the nursing staff asked

59:17 him to come and review shortly after the surgery.

59:19 Couldn't contact him. No, they couldn't get in contact

59:22 with him. He was probably on a coke fueled

59:24 Bender probably the next 1 is really sad.

59:28 Fluella Brown 24th of July in 2012.

59:32 So the first thing of note with this surgery, so he is week 1,

59:38 Dallas Medical Centre comes into surgery on the second day.

59:41 So he's already had a really poor outcome with Shirley Mock.

59:47 The next day, he goes into oh, actually, sorry, it was two days

59:50 later, goes into surgery for with Fluella Brown.

59:53 Nurses notices that he's wearing the same scrubs as he was

59:57 wearing the day before. You know how they know this?

59:59 It's a hole. What's that?

1:00:01 Yeah, a hole in his bum. Yeah, the size of a nickel.

1:00:03 And he wasn't wearing any underwear, so it was really

1:00:06 notable it. Was really notable.

1:00:10 It's gonna be a hygiene issue, yeah.

1:00:12 Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

1:00:15 Like, you're gloved and gowned and gloved in surgery, but you

1:00:18 can't tell me that wearing the, you know, surgeons are

1:00:23 scrupulous. Yes, with cleanliness and.

1:00:26 Hygiene and maintain. You should be changing your your

1:00:29 scrubs between patients to 10. He was wearing the same scrubs.

1:00:32 Especially when there's a days and.

1:00:33 Yeah, this was. Three days it.

1:00:35 Ended up and he was wearing. The same scrubs Nah with no

1:00:38 undies too. Like.

1:00:40 Gross. Nah.

1:00:42 Oh. Just just that alone to me.

1:00:45 Oh, should be. Grounds for dismissal.

1:00:47 Red flag like I. This is where I just don't.

1:00:50 Understand where they cut that that Bainer plane.

1:00:52 I I like sitting there going, you know, oh, no, we don't want

1:00:54 to risk, you know, a lawsuit for dismissing him.

1:00:57 There's plenty of grounds for him to be gone and to be go.

1:01:00 No, no, no, no. He had to go.

1:01:02 Not best practice. No, like if nothing else.

1:01:04 This is it. Oh God, sterility is.

1:01:07 Imperative in surgery? Like, I just can't even, I can't

1:01:11 even get my head around how he would think it's OK, but then he

1:01:14 also thought he was God's gift. So yes, the.

1:01:18 The nurse, the oh, I know, it's the same one who was.

1:01:20 Like, yeah, he's wearing the same scrubs as the other day.

1:01:22 Yeah. He also said that he suspected

1:01:25 he was on drugs that day. He said he came in, He looked

1:01:30 like manic almost. He was sweaty and pale, he said,

1:01:34 like, his eyes looked really funny.

1:01:38 So yeah, this nurse then told his superior and the charge

1:01:43 nurse came and, you know, came and assessed the situation.

1:01:47 But and I think the charge nurse then actually did report him to

1:01:50 the hospital board or the CEO or something like that.

1:01:53 But during this surgery, nothing actually happened.

1:01:58 The during the surgery of Fluella Brown, one of the quotes

1:02:02 that done she's known to have made is, I can't say there's too

1:02:05 much blood. Keep suctioning.

1:02:06 Keep suctioning. Again, this is a surgery where

1:02:09 there shouldn't be any blood. Yeah, like, minimal, like a

1:02:12 little bit of blotting. Yeah, here and there.

1:02:15 But the field was so occluded by blood that he couldn't even see,

1:02:20 like, he probably didn't even know what he was looking at.

1:02:22 He did. This is where, like, yeah, like,

1:02:23 I know. Doctor Kirby.

1:02:24 Commented around the fact of like, he didn't know what he was

1:02:26 doing when those sorts of things are happening because anyone

1:02:28 doing those sorts of surgeries knows that that's a patient who

1:02:31 is bleeding out and you need to do something about the bleeding,

1:02:34 not the actual surgery itself. Like he yeah.

1:02:36 So that's where he was like, what the hell is this guy doing?

1:02:39 He well, he didn't know. He didn't know.

1:02:42 Did. He know and he knew what he was

1:02:43 doing. This is where I didn't know.

1:02:44 We'll get to that, I guess. Well, when I say he didn't know

1:02:46 what I'm saying. Is he didn't have the experience

1:02:48 of performing these surgeries under supervision so he but he

1:02:53 still thought he. Could do he?

1:02:55 Thought he knew better, he thought.

1:02:56 He knew better. Yeah, I.

1:02:59 Like Teeter? All over that.

1:03:00 Of like what he knew and didn't know.

1:03:02 Yeah, agreed. I I think I think you're right.

1:03:05 So then that night, her husband, Floylla's husband, comes to

1:03:08 visit her and she's completely unresponsive.

1:03:11 And that is not what they expected after the surgery.

1:03:13 They thought, yes, I mean, it was a, it was, you know, a spine

1:03:17 surgery that they knew she was staying in overnight.

1:03:20 He expected her to be awake. But.

1:03:23 She wasn't and the next morning when he came, I think he

1:03:27 actually stayed overnight and he had to sleep next to her.

1:03:30 And the next morning she was completely unresponsive.

1:03:33 So he got the attention of the nursing staff who tried to get

1:03:38 in contact with Dunge. Nope.

1:03:42 Do you think they could? Get him.

1:03:45 Nope. Two hours it took him to call

1:03:47 the hospital back when he had a patient in critical condition

1:03:53 comes in the next. Morning.

1:03:54 Guess what he's wearing? Same scrubs.

1:03:57 Uh huh. Where's he been?

1:03:59 What's he been doing? Also.

1:04:02 According to. Several staff on the ward that

1:04:05 day. Yeah, hungover is all.

1:04:07 Fuck, I'm so diluted. Hang in.

1:04:11 Yeah, what the fuck? And.

1:04:16 Insisted on going on to surgery again.

1:04:18 Yep, so. Fluella Brown This is the.

1:04:23 Situation now Fluella Brown in grave, grave danger from the

1:04:27 surgery she'd had the day before.

1:04:31 ICU were getting nothing. From him to try and manage

1:04:35 fluella the imaging. So some imaging.

1:04:39 Was ordered by the ICU attending because obviously that person

1:04:43 had to then take over the care of this patient.

1:04:46 She was basically having a massive stroke.

1:04:50 Yeah, she died. She died.

1:04:53 Yeah. He's just awful.

1:04:58 There was nothing. The ICU attending could do.

1:05:01 No, while fluella. Was dying of a.

1:05:04 Stroke. Yeah, Dunch takes.

1:05:08 Mary. Efid he was told not to too.

1:05:11 He was, actually. Instructed not to, Mary Efid's

1:05:14 surgery was fully. Elective, Yeah.

1:05:17 There was no urgency. No, she was in a bit of pain.

1:05:21 But it was. Nothing she couldn't handle.

1:05:23 She just wanted a better quality of life going into her

1:05:26 retirement. Yeah, she was already retired.

1:05:29 It could have waited. It could have waited six months

1:05:31 if it needed to. Yeah, it was.

1:05:32 It was not urgent at all. The hospital said to him, you

1:05:37 need to postpone this surgery. And he went like, fuck, I'm

1:05:40 postponing. I know better than you, I've

1:05:42 already got this schedule. Done doing it now.

1:05:44 My thing here is, was he doing this for the money because he

1:05:49 was getting caught out again? I think.

1:05:51 I just think one of his ego. It wasn't.

1:05:55 Financially driven. I think somewhat.

1:05:57 I think somewhat, somewhat. But he didn't want to be caught

1:06:00 out. He's like, no, I'm doing it.

1:06:01 He knew better than everyone else.

1:06:03 Yeah, I don't. Know, I think he but why?

1:06:05 Didn't the hospital? Say to him you.

1:06:07 Can't. Like they've said to him, you

1:06:08 can't or don't operate today. Well, yeah, they did.

1:06:11 And then he's overridden that. Like why does he?

1:06:13 Have the I think he just. But again, it was just.

1:06:16 I think he. Was told no, you're not doing it

1:06:18 by up here. Yeah.

1:06:19 And then but The thing is that message he could convince other

1:06:23 people around him like, no, go set up the the the the operating

1:06:27 room and people did what they were told, but they weren't told

1:06:30 by the up peers. No, he's not allowed to do that.

1:06:33 You know, I think that's just, well, the communication just,

1:06:35 you know, disconnect that unfortunately, it went ahead

1:06:39 with him dictating to the the lower people like, you know,

1:06:42 this is what's going on because, yeah, they a surgeon, you do

1:06:44 what they ask, you know, you get the operating room ready and you

1:06:47 do all those things. But there wasn't anyone from the

1:06:50 higher ups coming in and going, no, it's not happening.

1:06:53 Yeah, they were telling him that, but he was dictating

1:06:55 everyone else. No, it is.

1:06:57 Yeah, okay. I think that's where there was

1:06:58 just that disconnect of that, honestly.

1:07:00 He severed Flowella. 'S vertebral artery yeah.

1:07:05 So this is a massive, massive catastrophe in term and a

1:07:10 massively adverse outcome. People in the room were telling

1:07:14 him to abort the surgery. Entirely.

1:07:16 And he just refused. Just refused.

1:07:17 And yet then he felt confident enough.

1:07:19 To go in to Mary Eford surgery and what give that a go,

1:07:25 apparently, like most, I would imagine any other surgeon pretty

1:07:28 much yeah, would be like, oh, I've had a shocking outcome.

1:07:32 I need to stop This is the reassess.

1:07:34 Maybe get a colleague? To come and.

1:07:36 Assist on my next case Yeah, Have some kind.

1:07:39 You would do everything you could to make sure you would not

1:07:43 have another outcome like that again. 100% there's like other

1:07:46 surgeons who have. Commented on this case around

1:07:48 the fact of like that they've had one patient on the table in

1:07:51 their you know 40 year career who has unfortunately lost their

1:07:56 life due to you know complications that occurred that

1:07:58 were out of their control that that is the patient they think

1:08:02 about yeah every single day that is the never want to experience

1:08:06 that again no and that's the toughest moment in their career

1:08:10 this guy's now on 2 that have died in very unfortunate

1:08:15 situations that he had a lot more control over than those you

1:08:18 know with these other situations they were talking about yeah

1:08:21 that he's like just move on to the next patient bring on the

1:08:23 next body like that's that's that is.

1:08:27 That's. An issue that's a massive issue.

1:08:29 Massive. With Flo Ellebrand I just

1:08:31 remembered as well. He.

1:08:32 Decided that he wanted to do a craniotomy on her.

1:08:36 Yes. And the hospital was like, Oh

1:08:39 well, no, we don't have the equipment.

1:08:40 We don't allow to do that surgery.

1:08:42 We're not licensed. Do it that surgery and he's not

1:08:44 licensed to do. That kind of thing.

1:08:46 No, I'll. Just use whatever you've got

1:08:47 here. I can do it.

1:08:48 Yeah. And they're like, no, you can't.

1:08:52 And so they decide the hospital actually decided to try and move

1:08:54 Fluella to another hospital that could do a craniotomedia relief,

1:08:58 which they said he wasn't wrong in that that.

1:09:01 Was definitely what needed to occur.

1:09:04 He caused that that that needing to be occurred to occur though.

1:09:08 So he in that he wasn't wrong in his medical opinion.

1:09:13 However, he wasn't, he was not trying to do it.

1:09:16 No, there was, you know, nor was he in a hospital that had the

1:09:19 facility to be able to do. It that's a whole new level of

1:09:22 surgery that needs to. Be, you know, done it was an

1:09:24 equipment and he wasn't saying can you get.

1:09:27 Someone in to do that? He's just, I'll just do it.

1:09:29 And then he blamed the hospital. On Floella's death, Yeah, like

1:09:33 they moved her. That's she died because they

1:09:35 moved. They moved her.

1:09:36 No, no, no. They died because you sever

1:09:38 severed her vertebral artery. Yeah.

1:09:40 And she had a stroke. You absolutely fucking piece of

1:09:44 shit. Oh God.

1:09:45 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but as you were.

1:09:50 Saying that like you know to then.

1:09:51 Like force the fact of like, you know, this has occurred instead

1:09:53 of having any kind of empathy or any normal reaction to that, his

1:09:57 reaction was, we'll bring the next one in and we'll get the

1:09:59 next patient on the table. Let's see how we can fuck this

1:10:02 one up. So poor Mary.

1:10:04 Mary, Ethan. Yeah, I've already.

1:10:08 Said he's got this. Field where there's she's

1:10:11 there's so much blood he can't even see it.

1:10:13 Yeah, the hospital, so the, the people in the operating theater

1:10:18 were like, you need to get this bleeding under control so you

1:10:21 can see what you're doing. Yeah.

1:10:23 And he said I can see it with my eyes.

1:10:27 He was, he couldn't #1 no #2 he was inserting screws into her

1:10:34 soft tissue. So between the bone and the and

1:10:37 into like muscle, basically. Yeah.

1:10:39 I. Saw in one of the documentaries.

1:10:41 I was watching. They're like, it would be like

1:10:43 screwing a screw into a fillet of tuna.

1:10:45 Yeah, yes, like it's holding on there's.

1:10:48 Nothing there, nothing there. It's not.

1:10:49 Yeah, not actually doing. Anything moving around in the

1:10:51 muscle tissue, like yeah. It's he's.

1:10:54 He doesn't. He can't even.

1:10:56 He doesn't even know that he's put a screw, but that's where

1:10:59 she was opposed to bone, but he but that's.

1:11:00 Where I go? You know, you just don't.

1:11:02 Care as in like, you'd know whether you know.

1:11:05 But how do you? How do you even justify that?

1:11:08 Even like, I know it's a psycho, but how do you even be like, Oh

1:11:12 yeah, that's cool. I'm just going to leave that

1:11:13 there because I think in his warped.

1:11:16 Way of thinking. It's like, I'm amazing, this

1:11:20 will just work. I don't know.

1:11:23 Because he knew he wasn't drilling into bone.

1:11:26 You know the difference. You must.

1:11:28 You can't honestly be. Going like, oh this will be the

1:11:30 right spot. When it feels like that.

1:11:32 Oh, he couldn't even see what he was drilling into.

1:11:34 But you feel it even then, you know what I mean?

1:11:37 I'm not saying it's wrong that he I mean he couldn't see and

1:11:40 that was 1 issue, but you could feel that it was wrong for sure.

1:11:44 So there's like you can feel the difference between bone.

1:11:46 And muscle, soft tissue even even as.

1:11:49 AI mean I'm not saying. I'm going into anyone.

1:11:50 'S spine and doing surgery but I could even tell the difference

1:11:53 if I was dealing drilling into bone or muscle like IA 100% will

1:11:56 say that yeah so he says he. Says that during this time

1:12:01 during Mary's surgery is when the hospital director came into

1:12:04 the operating room and said to him about transferring fluella

1:12:09 to have the craniotomy at the other hospital.

1:12:11 Yeah, he leaves the operating theatre at this point with Mary

1:12:20 bleeding on the table and the OR staff, the rest of the operating

1:12:24 theatre staff are standing there going, what the fuck?

1:12:29 You never, ever, ever leave a patient open on a table,

1:12:34 especially a patient who's bleeding and walk away.

1:12:39 You just never do that. That just does not happen.

1:12:42 But he's cracked the shits and he's going to sort out fluella

1:12:46 well. He didn't, no.

1:12:47 No what they suspect. Happened is that he went.

1:12:50 And had a bit of a hit at coke, yeah.

1:12:52 Because he's feeling a little bit of pressure at the moment.

1:12:54 Yeah. Feeling a.

1:12:54 Bit, bit, bit. That's not right.

1:12:56 It's a bit. Hard these people, What are

1:12:58 they? Doing to me because apparently

1:12:59 when he came back into the theatre.

1:13:01 He was up, totally up. Yeah, bouncing, bounding in.

1:13:07 My God, Ready to keep going with Mary Eford's surgery?

1:13:12 Oh, yeah. Believable.

1:13:15 Absolutely unbelievable. So Doctor Robert Henderson was

1:13:17 then? Bought in to perform like a

1:13:20 selvage surgery on Mary Eford now he was highly respected.

1:13:25 She woke up paralyzed the next day from the.

1:13:27 Waist down, I think yeah, I think so.

1:13:29 Sorry. Go away.

1:13:30 So, you know, so he. Tried to go in again and try and

1:13:33 fix what it was, what had gone wrong.

1:13:36 He was certain when he got in there, as soon as he got into

1:13:39 looking at what was what had happened in there, he was

1:13:41 absolutely so certain that there would be legal action on this

1:13:44 case. Oh yeah.

1:13:45 That he recorded his surgery to on on on Mary Ephord.

1:13:50 He likened what he found in Mary Ephord to the results of a child

1:13:56 playing with a Tinker toy or an an erector set.

1:14:01 Like basically like a Meccano set, like it was not surgery at

1:14:05 all. He describes some Duchess

1:14:08 surgery as an assault. Yeah.

1:14:11 He concluded that if it would have been bedridden for the rest

1:14:14 of her life had the salvage surgery not been been operated

1:14:18 and performed, he said. He said after that surgery as

1:14:20 well that anyone with a. Basic understanding of anatomy

1:14:23 wouldn't have done what he did. No.

1:14:25 And he said it made him think that he was an impostor.

1:14:27 Yes. So that he was he was actually

1:14:30 had no medical credentials. Yeah.

1:14:32 He thought he might have stolen someone's identity.

1:14:35 And stuff. Yeah.

1:14:35 So in order to verify that that hadn't happened.

1:14:38 Because he had his own personal suspicion that this might be the

1:14:41 case. Yeah.

1:14:42 He contacted the University of Tennessee and sent the Dean

1:14:48 dunce's photo that he'd had because it was on file from

1:14:52 being, you know, he was on the website because he was bloody

1:14:55 the Golden Boy of Dallas Medical Center at this point.

1:14:58 And the person came back and said, Yep, absolutely, that's

1:15:02 him. That's dunce.

1:15:04 Yep, Yep, Yep, he's he's he's amazing.

1:15:06 Well, that's that's where Henderson that what he's.

1:15:08 Quoted as saying is that he believed that dunce had to have

1:15:11 known how to do it right, that surgery, and then chose to do

1:15:17 the opposite. Yeah, he was found to have been

1:15:20 again. Operating.

1:15:21 He didn't even touch the disk that he should have operated on.

1:15:24 No, he didn't touch him. No, he's actually.

1:15:26 Fucked up in a whole another spot point of yeah, it blows my

1:15:31 mind yeah, so thankfully because of.

1:15:34 The revision surgery that Doctor Henderson took, Mary, she still

1:15:39 had deficits. She still had, you know, a loss

1:15:42 of mobility, but she wasn't a paraplegic.

1:15:46 So thankfully, they were able to.

1:15:48 He was able to take her back into surgery within that window

1:15:51 where he could repair what he could repair.

1:15:54 And the results weren't as catastrophic as they could have

1:15:58 been for her, but she still had a far lower quality of life than

1:16:02 she did when she walked in to Dallas Medical Center before

1:16:06 done she was, I mean, she was in a wheelchair and.

1:16:08 All those sorts of things. So I just awful.

1:16:11 But what completely blows my mind then after that was because

1:16:14 he was only new to this hospital and had temporary privileges

1:16:19 that meant that legally they didn't have to report him.

1:16:22 Yep, because he wasn't actually employed by the hospital.

1:16:24 By this point, at this point, he had, as you said, temporary

1:16:28 privileges. If he'd had permanent status

1:16:31 there, they would have been bound to report him.

1:16:36 Does that not blow your mind? Like to make sure that's more

1:16:39 reason that's true I think. Too, Like get him when he's

1:16:42 quick. When it's, when it.

1:16:43 Before you make him permanent and then before he goes on to

1:16:46 then take. Privileges at another hospital

1:16:48 and do this again because there's no way that that Dallas

1:16:52 medical Centre Yeah, didn't know in doing their due diligence in

1:16:55 getting him on board. Yeah.

1:16:57 The next facility's not gonna know either.

1:16:59 No, it's absolutely ridiculous. It is.

1:17:02 So he lasted one week at Dallas Medical Centre, 1 week 1 killed

1:17:07 some week and maimed someone. Yep, God.

1:17:12 Like just blows I'm. On So 20th of September 2012.

1:17:17 He then is given privileges at Southampton, what was then

1:17:21 called Southampton Community College.

1:17:23 It's in apparently the dodgiest part of Dallas.

1:17:25 Like no one wants to go there. So when this world renowned,

1:17:30 this amazing neurosurgeon then tells his patients that he's

1:17:34 operating on them at Southampton Community Hospital, they're all

1:17:39 like what the fuck? Like for real?

1:17:42 Like OK, well I mean it must. Be good if he's.

1:17:44 Operating there like they must have good facilities maybe.

1:17:48 But apparently this hospital was in such a state of disrepair, it

1:17:52 was basically going bankrupt. And so a group of doctors

1:17:58 actually, and then other investors ended up buying the

1:18:02 hospital and they renamed it University General Hospital.

1:18:07 And they basically were really excited to have somebody like

1:18:11 Dunch on board. Now, Kirby, Randall Kirby knew

1:18:16 the head guy, the head. He was actually an anesthetist

1:18:21 who was the head owner of what was now University General

1:18:25 Hospital, which wasn't associated with any university.

1:18:27 But anyway, it sounds good. Sounds good.

1:18:29 Sounds like it's a tertiary level hospital there.

1:18:31 Yeah. And.

1:18:33 They. He rang him and said hey, mate,

1:18:36 like they'd gone to medical school together.

1:18:38 Yeah. And he was like, hey, mate, this

1:18:39 guy, you've gotta watch him. And he and this guy was like,

1:18:42 well, no, he's done nothing wrong.

1:18:43 I've we've looked up his credentials.

1:18:45 There's nothing there. He listen to you, mate.

1:18:47 So what? What?

1:18:48 Would have gone like oh but. We've.

1:18:50 Already given him his privileges, we can't.

1:18:52 Take them away now. They were also scared of being

1:18:54 sued. And this is the age that's I

1:18:56 mean, that's very. American, isn't it?

1:18:58 Like, you know, but then also the other thing I think.

1:19:00 This guy was probably thinking. Is he can bring me that 3

1:19:03 million in revenue to my new hospital?

1:19:05 Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take the revenue.

1:19:07 Yeah, this is it. I mean, again, all about money

1:19:09 isn't? It it is.

1:19:10 Oh God, Doctor Henderson and Doctor Kirby would not.

1:19:13 Give up though, would they? No, they were.

1:19:16 Thank God. Thank God.

1:19:17 They just kept going, them going.

1:19:19 They contacted is it was it Mari Lopez at the Texas board of

1:19:26 Texas medical board and they were they had a conversation,

1:19:31 conversations with her and were reporting him.

1:19:33 Doctor Henderson actually recorded his initial phone call

1:19:37 to Mary Lopez to report Dunge and in the recording.

1:19:41 So he just had his mobile phone out and recorded it while he was

1:19:44 while he was on the phone. She did not ask him who he was,

1:19:47 where he was calling from his name, didn't ask him.

1:19:51 He volunteered that he was a vascular surgeon or whatever.

1:19:55 No, he's a vine surgeon. Yeah.

1:19:57 He was neurosurgeon. Yeah.

1:19:59 And but that was. All.

1:20:01 Didn't ask him. Which hospital he worked at?

1:20:02 Nothing, Oh my God. And so.

1:20:05 And he says, have you heard of? Him have you like have you

1:20:08 received our other complaints? We've put other complaints in

1:20:10 writing. I'm following up to see what's

1:20:11 being done about this because he's had he's had another

1:20:15 adverse. Outcome.

1:20:16 Now, and they were based they she was like, oh, you know, I

1:20:20 can't discuss an open case basically, but wasn't an open

1:20:24 case though, like were they? Looking at him, we don't.

1:20:26 We actually don't know. No, we actually.

1:20:28 Don't know. Eight weeks after Mary Ford's

1:20:30 surgery, he was operating again at University General Hospital.

1:20:34 Yeah. This patient was Jeff Cheney.

1:20:36 Yes. This was in September of 2012.

1:20:39 He'd had a bad back since his 30s.

1:20:42 Just one of those reuse. Was this the mechanic?

1:20:46 Oh, I get confused because there's Jeff.

1:20:48 Glidwell as well and I get confused between the two anyway.

1:20:51 Oh, no, he sorry. He was a mechanic, Yeah.

1:20:52 Jeff Cheney was the mechanic. Yeah, I I actually did have that

1:20:55 in my notes posted. So he'd had this chronic back

1:20:59 issue. He was a mechanic.

1:21:00 He's constantly bending over cars.

1:21:01 You know, it would have been. It's a really taxing job on your

1:21:04 side. He was.

1:21:06 Earning 100. $1000 a year, doing really well for himself.

1:21:10 He and his wife were like, you know, coming up to a point

1:21:13 where, you know, they had they were sort of getting into the

1:21:18 twilight of their working careers and and this was

1:21:21 something that they wanted to have fixed so that they could go

1:21:25 into retirement again, pain free and, you know, finish off the

1:21:29 last few years of that's it. He now can't work anymore after

1:21:34 this surgery. He's in constant pain.

1:21:37 Apparently after the surgery, Dutch went in and said to him, I

1:21:40 don't know why you're this way. Everything went perfect in

1:21:42 there. It's not my fault.

1:21:45 You know what he'd done. He cut Jeff's spinal cord.

1:21:52 He. Told Jeff it was just the

1:21:53 swelling that. Was causing here the paralysis

1:21:56 and then yeah, that's right, he said it would it would just.

1:21:58 Ease up after time. It's just swelling.

1:21:59 He was paralysed from his chest down.

1:22:01 Yeah. No, it was because you severed.

1:22:04 Yeah, you butchered his spinal cord.

1:22:09 Yeah. What?

1:22:11 What the fuck? Oh, it's just awful.

1:22:14 Oh, just absolutely horrific. December 2012 Text News.

1:22:19 He was a young man, very young at the time he went to see.

1:22:26 Dunch. Because again, I think he'd had.

1:22:30 Was he in a car accident or something?

1:22:32 When? He was.

1:22:32 Younger, he'd had some kind of trauma and he when he went to

1:22:36 see Dunch, he said that Dunch said to him, oh, you should have

1:22:40 had surgery on this five years ago.

1:22:42 Yeah, he had degenerated discs. Yeah, for.

1:22:44 Whatever reason from an accident.

1:22:46 Yeah, right, 'cause that to sort of start.

1:22:48 Yeah. And so Dunch is like, we need to

1:22:52 get you into surgery tomorrow. Yeah, time was of the essence.

1:22:55 Almost like, oh, I might have a. Bill to pay?

1:22:56 Yeah. Do you?

1:22:58 Yeah, exactly. Absolutely.

1:23:00 Absolutely. So I feel like he was.

1:23:02 Also, rushing his patients into having these surgeries and

1:23:05 making these decisions because he basically had to get them in

1:23:10 quick before they could figure him out.

1:23:12 Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:13 And that's what happened with Tex the night before his

1:23:15 surgery. So he was scheduled very

1:23:17 quickly, I think two days after he'd seen Dunce for the surgery.

1:23:20 Yeah. The night before the surgery, he

1:23:22 said he was feeling a bit. Nervous and a bit apprehensive.

1:23:25 And it did all come about very quickly.

1:23:27 He decided to Google Dunce. Yeah.

1:23:29 And in doing so, he found out about Kelly Martin's death.

1:23:32 Yeah, he called Dunce. And.

1:23:35 Dunge apparently yelled at him and swore at him and basically

1:23:40 said why are you fucking questioning me?

1:23:43 I am AI am a top of the line neurosurgeon.

1:23:47 How dare you? How dare you question me?

1:23:50 Would that make you then go no, Oh, I'm not there's?

1:23:52 No way I'll be going through the surgery with somebody spoke to

1:23:55 me like that 100%, no way. But he did.

1:23:58 He did, Josh told him. Though that the patient.

1:24:01 Didn't. Die.

1:24:01 From. His surgery, it was an A

1:24:03 complication from the anesthesia.

1:24:04 Yeah, yeah, he blames it on someone else.

1:24:06 It's not me. I'm.

1:24:06 Amazing. It's not my fault.

1:24:08 Never. His fault.

1:24:09 No. So Tex was like, oh, OK.

1:24:11 Like he got really angry because it wasn't his fault.

1:24:13 And he was so. Like, he didn't want to be

1:24:15 blamed for something that was. Oh, well, actually, Tex, you

1:24:18 should've listened to your gut. Maybe.

1:24:19 Yeah. Gotcha.

1:24:20 Yeah. The day.

1:24:22 Of the surgery, the. Anaesthetist gave Tex, you know,

1:24:26 the drugs to put him to sleep and text immediately threw up

1:24:32 immediately it made. Him so.

1:24:34 Sick. Yeah.

1:24:35 Apparently the protocol when that happens is you stop.

1:24:38 Yeah. You wait, you reassess.

1:24:40 Yeah, the anaesthetist is in full.

1:24:42 Control. At this point, it is their

1:24:44 operating, it is their their responsibility.

1:24:48 Yeah. Well, Airways is there on them,

1:24:49 yeah. Yeah, apparently, Dutch said to

1:24:52 the anaesthetist. Put him under quick.

1:24:54 Text then says he felt as though he was going to die.

1:24:58 Oh, my God. Because the night before, Dutch

1:25:02 had told him that his other patient had died from

1:25:04 complications of anesthesia. Yeah, He's about to be put

1:25:06 under. He's vomiting.

1:25:08 The last thing he hears is put him under quick.

1:25:10 Oh, my God. How sickening.

1:25:12 Oh. God, that's just oh, is there

1:25:14 anything more awful to hear before you go under?

1:25:16 It isn't even his call to make. Like why did he need to go?

1:25:20 Along oh that see again. Some other people are are

1:25:25 accountable. Of things I do.

1:25:26 Think too, but yeah, I mean, ultimately dunge, but yeah, it's

1:25:29 all done. Yeah, but I see what you're

1:25:31 saying. Absolutely people had there were

1:25:33 other people should have said people should have said there

1:25:35 were points of. Yeah.

1:25:36 And that that is one of those places, yeah.

1:25:39 So when? Tex came.

1:25:41 To he said his pain. As he woke up, his pain got

1:25:45 worse and worse and worse, and he likened it to a jackhammer.

1:25:49 Yeah. Stabbing his spine.

1:25:51 Oh my God, Dunsch. Told him he was.

1:25:54 Overreacting it was. Just normal.

1:25:57 It was just normal and he. Prescribed him two Percocet

1:26:02 every two hours, so 24 Percocet a day.

1:26:07 The pharmacist wouldn't dispense that medication because it would

1:26:12 cause an overdose. Well, he feared that the doctor

1:26:16 so. Dunsch was trying to kill his

1:26:18 patient, yes. So Percocet is.

1:26:21 Oxycodone and paracetamol together in in one tablet.

1:26:24 So, yeah, this is a drug of dependence as well.

1:26:27 This is. And that is actually exactly

1:26:29 what had happened. Yeah.

1:26:31 Text became addicted to oxycodone Yeah it ended up

1:26:34 according to Tex, caused his divorce Yep, and loss of his

1:26:38 job. The loss of his job, Tex decided

1:26:41 after going through this horrific time so divorce had

1:26:45 gone through, he decided to go and get another opinion because

1:26:47 he could not live with the pain following this surgery, this

1:26:53 new. Neurosurgeon who he saw said

1:26:55 his. Spine had never been touched.

1:26:59 The hardware was floating. Between.

1:27:01 Bone and muscle tissue. Oh my God.

1:27:05 Now what on? Earth.

1:27:08 The definition. Of a psychopath, yeah.

1:27:12 Lack of remorse, A superficial, glib charm, Impulsivity, callous

1:27:19 disregard for others, entitlement, manipulation.

1:27:24 Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,

1:27:26 tick, tick, tick. Every one of those boxes here.

1:27:29 What a. Fucking like I.

1:27:31 Just how did he How? Was he still?

1:27:35 Operating, that's what and even. Like at this point, like where,

1:27:39 you know, we've got Doctor Henderson and Doctor Kirby who

1:27:42 are reporting and reporting, reporting and trying to get him

1:27:45 found out for who he is and having push backed from all

1:27:49 angles, they then lobby towards the, the, the Texas like medical

1:27:56 board. That's who they're talking to

1:27:57 there. But they also.

1:27:58 Then go towards. Go to the oh God, what am I

1:28:01 trying to say? The prosecution like to the

1:28:03 district, the District Attorney, sorry, that's the word I'm

1:28:05 looking for. Yeah, they go to the District

1:28:07 Attorney and sort of try and start that Ave. of like legal

1:28:09 action to get him. They realize that the only way

1:28:11 this is going to stop is to get him off of being able to do any

1:28:16 more surgeries whatsoever. So what they were saying was

1:28:19 that. His actions were criminal.

1:28:22 Yeah. So this wasn't medical

1:28:24 negligence, medical malpractice? Medical malpractice.

1:28:28 Yeah, it went beyond that. Yes. 2 criminal.

1:28:33 It's now murder. Murder.

1:28:35 Yeah. Yeah.

1:28:37 They didn't know what. Would stick?

1:28:38 Potentially no. They they because they pursued

1:28:42 all. Of the right avenues.

1:28:43 Yes, they tried. They'd gone to the CEO of Baylor

1:28:45 Plano. They'd gone to the Texas medical

1:28:48 board. They'd gone to the power of

1:28:50 hospitals, other places he was was at.

1:28:52 They were telling. Everyone, yes, and they were all

1:28:55 just like passing him on to someone else, which is so

1:28:58 disgusting from what I from what I can gather.

1:29:01 When you're reporting to the medical board, right?

1:29:03 Yeah, complaint from a patients like down yes, a complaint from

1:29:08 another doctor or from nursing staff or another doctor is sort

1:29:12 of middle of the road. Middle of the road, yeah, A

1:29:14 complaint from a hospital is like red lights flashing.

1:29:18 We need to do something about this because for a hospital to

1:29:22 make a complaint. Something really bad.

1:29:24 Must be going on. Something really bad was going

1:29:26 on. Why would they?

1:29:27 They weren't doing it all because they just.

1:29:29 Didn't want to get sued. Yeah.

1:29:31 Like, it's so disgusting, like, so bad.

1:29:33 It shouldn't be that they should feel that way.

1:29:35 It should not be that people are scared of getting sued when

1:29:39 people are dying. That's right.

1:29:41 It should not have been that hard to say.

1:29:43 This guy should not be doing what he's doing.

1:29:45 He has to be removed. Yeah.

1:29:46 Because even the District Attorney basically was like, oh,

1:29:50 totally what we're saying. But I don't know if we've got a

1:29:52 case. Here, like they.

1:29:53 Well, it was unprecedented. Yeah, completely.

1:29:55 Unprecedented to pursue. Criminal charges, yes.

1:29:59 Against a doctor, against a Doctor Who was operating.

1:30:03 Yeah. In the operating theatre.

1:30:04 So they were like, where does the delineation happen?

1:30:06 Yeah. And I get that.

1:30:07 There is definitely. It's a fine.

1:30:08 Line for surgeons I mean, where, you know, if we go prosecuting

1:30:12 one doctor because someone dies on their operating table, like

1:30:16 all of a sudden we can't operate on anyone for anything.

1:30:18 Simple things because what if the person dies and I'm gonna

1:30:20 get put in jail I'm gonna go. Who'd wanna be a doctor?

1:30:22 I get that. Yeah, completely understand

1:30:24 that. However, this was at a.

1:30:27 This is way beyond that. This is not, you know, minor

1:30:30 complications that unfortunately, I mean unforeseen

1:30:33 circumstances have meant this person has died on a table.

1:30:36 This is someone who is performing surgeries who doesn't

1:30:39 have the capability or maybe does and is choosing to not use

1:30:44 them. That's a whole.

1:30:47 Nother. Level of insanity like so

1:30:50 something had to be done here. This was not Yeah.

1:30:53 And I guess that's where I understand from a legal

1:30:55 perspective that they are treading in unknown territory

1:30:59 and also sticky territory to avoid all doctors then going

1:31:04 well, fuck this. I'm not getting involved in

1:31:05 doing surgeries because I'll I'm going to lose my license to be

1:31:08 put in jail for like one thing that might go wrong.

1:31:10 But that wasn't. But that's not what this was.

1:31:12 And that's where they had to. Really figure out how to

1:31:15 navigate that and yeah, what charges to bring Yes, while they

1:31:18 were. Trying to figure that out.

1:31:19 He was still operating at University General Hospital.

1:31:22 Yes, in April of 2013, he. Operated on Philip.

1:31:25 Mayfield, he had a herniated disc in his neck.

1:31:27 He was a truck driver, so he'd spent years and years driving

1:31:31 trucks, sitting down. And part of his job was actually

1:31:34 unloading the truck. So he was, you know, lifting

1:31:38 heavy things, bending in weird way.

1:31:40 Yeah, not great. Have you seen an interview with

1:31:43 him? No, he and his.

1:31:46 Wife. Oh my God.

1:31:47 They love each other oh so hard. And they, they've got their

1:31:51 children are in their 20s. They haven't killed each other

1:31:55 yet, no. And they, they fully actually,

1:31:57 for reals love each other. God, they basically they're

1:32:00 like, oh, I can't live without you.

1:32:01 You are amazing. You're my rock.

1:32:03 I couldn't have gotten through this without you.

1:32:05 And she was like, well, I couldn't have gotten through

1:32:07 life without you. So of course, Oh my God, it was

1:32:09 just so good. And not even icky when they do

1:32:11 it. Oh, not icky, no.

1:32:12 Like you just you are down. To earth, beautiful people like

1:32:15 gorgeous, gorgeous people. That's rare, Absolutely.

1:32:19 Love you Peter. So apparently he.

1:32:24 Screened. 5 or 6 surgeons, he was, he was really apprehensive

1:32:27 about having this surgery. But again, it got to a point

1:32:30 where he couldn't even stand and watch his kids play football

1:32:33 games because he was in so much pain.

1:32:34 So it's like it's time to do something about it.

1:32:36 Screened 5 or 6 different surgeons.

1:32:38 Dunch had great reviews. When he went and met with Dunch,

1:32:42 he said I've done thousands of these surgeries.

1:32:46 He'd done less than 20 throughout his entire career.

1:32:50 Slash training, he said his office looked really.

1:32:53 Professional. Dunsch told him that it was a 45

1:32:56 minute operation, run-of-the-mill standard.

1:32:58 Could do it any day of the week easy, could do it with his eyes

1:33:01 closed. It turned out he was actually in

1:33:04 surgery for somewhere between 6:00 and 8:00 hours when he.

1:33:09 Woke up unbelievable when he. Woke up he.

1:33:12 Couldn't move. He couldn't.

1:33:13 Feel anything from his chest down.

1:33:15 He was told he would never walk again.

1:33:18 To this day he uses a Walker to get around so he was actually

1:33:22 able to gain some movement back but he can't wait fully wait

1:33:28 there. So basically gone from not being

1:33:30 able to stand at. His kids sporting events to not

1:33:33 be able to stand anywhere anywhere.

1:33:35 That's fucked. He also because of this.

1:33:38 Something happened. I'm not quite sure exactly the

1:33:41 mechanism of this, but there was something to do with his blood

1:33:44 pressure now and it can just plummet and he just passes out

1:33:48 at any moment. Holy.

1:33:49 So he can't drive anymore, which is his bread and butter.

1:33:53 Yeah. And he'll just, they'll be

1:33:55 somewhere. And he doesn't even feel it

1:33:57 coming on. He just passes out.

1:33:59 Oh my God. That's awful.

1:34:04 Oh my God. He did have.

1:34:06 I'm sorry, yeah. Sorry.

1:34:06 Go. Oh, no, I was just gonna say his

1:34:07 final patient. Are we up to there?

1:34:09 Are you Jeff Glidewell? Yeah, yeah, go.

1:34:11 Yeah. All right.

1:34:11 So. It's Jeff Glidewell was.

1:34:13 His his final patient that he was able to operate on and

1:34:17 again, fairly routine surgery, although when he got in there he

1:34:22 mistook part of his neck muscle for a tumor and removed it.

1:34:27 No, no, no, it was his. Esophagus.

1:34:29 His esophagus. It was meant to be like a

1:34:32 routine. Cervical Fusion.

1:34:34 And but yeah, it went in and decided like, you know, oh,

1:34:36 there's cancer in here is a tumor, I'll just remove things

1:34:39 that should have been removed. So he severed his vocal cords as

1:34:44 well, cutting a hole in his esophagus at the time.

1:34:47 So, and he sliced an artery as well.

1:34:51 So basically. Absolutely.

1:34:53 Botched the shit out of this. He then stuffed surgical sponges

1:34:58 in with all this because it was obviously causing more bleeding.

1:35:01 And then when he, yeah, 7 artery shoved all the surgical sponges

1:35:04 in and then stitched him up, left the sponges in there.

1:35:08 Now he was warned. I mean, there's there.

1:35:10 Is a nurse in an operating theatre who is taking note?

1:35:13 That is their job, to take note of what goes into and out of the

1:35:16 patient and record all of that. Yeah, that nurse and other

1:35:20 assistants in the theatre. At the time, yeah.

1:35:23 You've left a sponge in him. Yeah, they're telling him not.

1:35:26 Care. No, he sewed.

1:35:28 Him. Up.

1:35:31 With the sponges. Still inside SO.

1:35:33 Disgusting. It ended up triggering a.

1:35:35 Severe blood borne infection. Of course it did.

1:35:37 I mean, yeah. So you went into sepsis.

1:35:43 They had to go back in and remove it.

1:35:45 But it's just, it's so disgusting that Paul, it was

1:35:49 Kirby that went in to repair the damage again.

1:35:50 So Doctor Kirby again. So they called him in and gave

1:35:54 him temporary privileges. At the hospital in order to fix

1:35:57 this, yes, so he described. The damage found after opening

1:36:01 him up that it was again, this is where he spoken about him

1:36:04 being a crazed maniac. He said it was attempted murder.

1:36:06 Yeah, he reckoned that there. Was it had to have been that he

1:36:08 was trying? To kill the guy because no

1:36:10 surgeon would do that knowingly. And he did it knowingly.

1:36:14 Yeah. So it's it's for him, this was

1:36:17 like an he was already, this guy's got to be stopped, but

1:36:21 this was like the end of his, you know, ability to go, this is

1:36:24 not OK whatsoever. This guy cannot be.

1:36:27 He's trying to kill his patients.

1:36:29 Even identify the difference between an esophagus.

1:36:33 And a tumour now? Well, he said that there is.

1:36:36 Not a botched surgery like this that has ever been done in the

1:36:41 United States. He went as far as that.

1:36:44 That there is no. Surgeon who would do that

1:36:47 surgery ever in the space you know what I think is like a.

1:36:52 Little bit funny about. This.

1:36:54 Oh yeah? Well, if there is something.

1:36:56 Jeff Glidewell says that when he was.

1:36:59 On his way to hospital that morning, a black cat ran across

1:37:02 the road in front of him. Turn around and go home.

1:37:04 And he's like, and he's like, I just wish I was more suspicious,

1:37:07 more of a superstitious person. And I would have turned around

1:37:10 and gone home, but he's not. I wasn't then, but I am now.

1:37:13 Absolutely. Oh, I would have turned around

1:37:15 for sure. So like, you know, this poor.

1:37:18 Man, and he his injuries are forever sustained because his

1:37:23 vocal cord was severed. He's got changes to his voice.

1:37:26 Yeah, he ended up having the esophagus repaired, but he still

1:37:30 has deficit. Like there's still issues there

1:37:32 with swallowing and Kirby being a brilliant surgeon.

1:37:35 He was. Able to, you know, get back a

1:37:39 fair bit for him, a fair bit of function.

1:37:40 But yeah, he just. Shouldn't have to have.

1:37:42 Needed to occur, should it? Like absolutely disgusting.

1:37:47 So Kirby went on to then obviously after that and doing

1:37:50 that he again reported against the medical board and in that he

1:37:54 wrote that he called a sociopath and a clear and present danger

1:38:01 to the citizens of Texas. He also said that you.

1:38:04 Must remove. You must.

1:38:06 What do they say? Revoke his medical license

1:38:08 immediately, He said. Yeah, I'm not mincing words

1:38:10 anymore. I'm not making this

1:38:11 professional. I can't not.

1:38:13 It has to be black and white. They do not understand like the

1:38:16 absolute severity of what's going on here.

1:38:18 So they did. Fortunately at that point on

1:38:22 June 26th and 2013, they did remove Duchess license,

1:38:26 suspended it. Well, yeah, yeah.

1:38:27 Suspended. Sorry.

1:38:28 Yeah, they did suspend at that point to be investigated.

1:38:31 Yeah, thankfully that that you know that they did do that and

1:38:33 didn't go. I will investigate, you know,

1:38:35 and leave him doing things. They did suspend it whilst they

1:38:37 investigated it couldn't not. Oh my God.

1:38:41 Oh. It should never have got to

1:38:43 anywhere. Near this, Yeah.

1:38:45 So upon this. Suspension.

1:38:48 Obviously, he can't then practice.

1:38:50 He was in so much debt. Dunsch was in so much debt.

1:38:53 It was like $1,000,000 worth of debt.

1:38:55 He was then arrested for driving under the influence in Denver

1:38:59 because he'd actually moved to Denver, Co, in amongst all of

1:39:02 this, because he needed to get away, because people knew who he

1:39:06 was. He was everywhere.

1:39:07 There was a lot of media coverage.

1:39:09 Yeah. And I believe Wendy had moved to

1:39:12 Denver to, I think she had a sister there or something.

1:39:15 She tried to get away from him, did she?

1:39:17 And then he followed her there. Yeah.

1:39:19 And. He stayed one night with the

1:39:21 sister and her, and she got pregnant again in one night.

1:39:24 Oh, my God, They. She must.

1:39:26 They must be so fertile together.

1:39:28 And the timing of things like to basically the first time they

1:39:32 ever slept together, she fell pregnant.

1:39:34 This was one night he was back. Yeah.

1:39:36 They hadn't slept together for years at this point.

1:39:39 Oh, my God. Slept together again.

1:39:40 And she fell pregnant with their second son.

1:39:43 Oh. Why is it like people like him

1:39:45 that can be that? Fertile.

1:39:46 Really, how much drug is too he probably exactly exactly.

1:39:52 So he was arrested while he was in Denver for driving under the

1:39:55 influence. Yeah, he really spiraled.

1:39:57 He really did. And then he was.

1:39:59 Arrested in a Walmart for shoplifting.

1:40:02 I just got to get my nose pants or something.

1:40:05 Was it? Oh my God, I've written a.

1:40:06 List because I was like what? The fuck?

1:40:08 Sorry. Office supplies, Diet Coke,

1:40:12 pants, a keyboard, A hat? What the fuck?

1:40:17 And the CCT VS really. Funny of this because he puts

1:40:20 the hat on. I mean, it's a Anyway, it's a

1:40:24 hat. He then puts everything into one

1:40:27 trolley. Yeah.

1:40:28 And then he's got a staged trolley that he set up elsewhere

1:40:32 with bags in it that he'd left in a different area.

1:40:36 He collects all these fucking random things, right?

1:40:40 He goes to the trolley that he'd set up and he puts all of the

1:40:43 shit that he's stealing into these bags and then he just

1:40:46 walks out the front door. And I mean, the CCTV is so

1:40:50 clear, you can see exactly what he's doing.

1:40:52 So security get him and bring him back in.

1:40:55 Yeah. What the fuck did he like?

1:40:56 What the fuck? Oh my God.

1:40:59 Do you think there weren't? Cameras everywhere.

1:41:01 I. Just, I don't know.

1:41:02 I don't know what he thought. I really don't.

1:41:05 Know. Oh my God, yeah.

1:41:08 Yes, so. The attorney general filed a

1:41:11 motion to intervene in the suits to defend Baylor Plano.

1:41:15 So this was now where the prosecution was going in the

1:41:19 District Attorney was going in terms of prosecuting him.

1:41:21 Yeah. In the state of Texas,

1:41:23 unfortunately, I guess, for the individual patients involved,

1:41:27 there is a cap of $250,000 in terms of suing a doctor for

1:41:33 libel. Yeah.

1:41:34 And, and so most of his patients, like 33 of the 38

1:41:40 patients had definitely had the right to sue him, but they would

1:41:45 only only get that 200 and. 50,250 thousand, unless they

1:41:49 pursued. Criminal action against him, but

1:41:53 he was already in debt. He'd already filed for

1:41:54 bankruptcy. He was in over $1,000,000 worth

1:41:57 of debt when he filed, yes. So they weren't actually going

1:42:00 to get anything from his personal estate.

1:42:02 So no, these people who have are now crippled and oh, their

1:42:06 medical bills and their, you know what their.

1:42:08 Life was going to be from that point on, from his surgeries was

1:42:11 going to cost way more than that.

1:42:12 Absolutely. Oh God, yeah.

1:42:14 Touched the surface. No, no.

1:42:19 So we're at the point now where? What?

1:42:22 He's arrested? Yeah.

1:42:24 So this is in July of 20. 15 So this is about. 18 months, I

1:42:28 think, after his medical license was revoked.

1:42:30 Is he? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

1:42:32 Yeah, about 18. Months after, yeah, he was

1:42:34 arrested in Dallas and. Charged with six felony counts

1:42:38 of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, 5 counts of

1:42:41 aggravated assault causing serious bodily injury, and one

1:42:45 count of injury to an elderly person, which was Mary Ethan.

1:42:47 Yeah. Now the District Attorney

1:42:50 decided to pursue Mary case first because that actually came

1:42:54 with the longest possible sentence that could potentially

1:42:57 give you life in prison. Whereas the other one, other

1:43:00 others would not get that kind of sentence.

1:43:01 Yeah, apparently with that charge it was somewhere.

1:43:04 You could have a sentence between two years and life.

1:43:07 Yeah, so there was a big scope there, but they were obviously

1:43:10 aiming for life because of everything that he has Kirby had

1:43:13 said that they had to get. Life he felt because otherwise

1:43:16 he would find a way to do surgeries again.

1:43:19 That was his belief 100%. I I think he's spot on.

1:43:22 He was, because he'd also applied.

1:43:25 So, yes, Duncan applied for medical licenses in California

1:43:29 and Colorado. Yeah, yeah, I.

1:43:32 Think you might be right, yeah. It was, at least.

1:43:34 Two, Yeah, he was. He was already, he was already

1:43:37 putting houses in other states. Yeah, while he was being.

1:43:40 Indicted. Exactly so the other.

1:43:42 Thing they're. Also fighting here.

1:43:45 Was that there was also a statute of statute of

1:43:47 limitations on being able to put this into place and and actually

1:43:51 indict him. So when they did finally get him

1:43:54 on this and get him into get him charged with these, they only

1:43:57 had four months left on that statute of limitations.

1:43:59 So they were really fighting to get this through as quickly as

1:44:03 possible at that point to make sure that because if they had

1:44:05 gone any longer, they literally were not able to get him on it.

1:44:10 Which, oh, God, that's scary to think that if they they just

1:44:13 hadn't got a step right and, you know, somebody had pushed them

1:44:16 back further to wait to get this going, they would have been out

1:44:19 of the game. Yeah.

1:44:20 So the trial went ahead as you. Said it was.

1:44:23 Time was absolutely of the essence.

1:44:25 But it did go ahead. It took 13 days of trial.

1:44:28 It took the jury 4 hours was to deliberate and then one hour to

1:44:32 decide on his sentencing too. Yeah, they were.

1:44:34 They were very much all on the same page.

1:44:36 So this is fucked up. Yeah.

1:44:37 So they sentenced him to life. In prison, Yes, on the 20th of

1:44:42 Feb IN201711 of the things that got him in in.

1:44:46 Court was his e-mail. Oh my God, is this the Occam's

1:44:51 Razor? Have you?

1:44:52 Seen this? Oh my God.

1:44:53 Oh yes I have. It is now the the e-mail.

1:44:58 You an e-mail is what, a few paragraphs long?

1:45:02 You'd think at best. Yep, this e-mail goes on and on,

1:45:07 and it is it is ramblings of a lunatic.

1:45:10 Oh, absolutely. Have you read the whole?

1:45:12 Thing because it's hard to read the.

1:45:13 Whole thing, it's like 10 plus pages.

1:45:17 It's it's the. IT is the ramblings.

1:45:19 Of an absolute lunatic. I'm just going to read some of

1:45:22 the Yeah, read some of the bits. It's really interesting.

1:45:24 OK, I've got. One bit here, he repeats.

1:45:29 This a number of times throughout it too go

1:45:32 unfortunately you cannot understand sorry this I should

1:45:35 say this e-mail is to Kimberly Morgan is that right yes Yep

1:45:39 Yep. So he's sent this e-mail to her,

1:45:42 I believe because having the relationship, but I think she'd

1:45:45 kind of gone on one out and of the relationship and his this

1:45:49 was his kind of response to her leaving the the relationship.

1:45:52 Yeah, this because previous to this, all of the emails.

1:45:55 Between the two of them were I love you, you're my soul mate.

1:45:57 I can't live without you. I had eight orgasms with you

1:46:01 last night. Oh my God.

1:46:04 Whatever. Anyway, then she's she's

1:46:06 obviously cottoned. On to the fact that he's fucked.

1:46:09 Oh yeah, and she wanted to get away.

1:46:10 She ended up actually having an affair on him with another man

1:46:15 Anyway, she's an interesting, but that's a whole different

1:46:19 story. But because he was rejected by

1:46:21 her, yeah, this is what came out.

1:46:23 There was his response to her rejection.

1:46:25 Like which? To me just screams narcissist.

1:46:28 Oh, this is this e-mail. Is go.

1:46:30 Read. Read your book and then I'll

1:46:32 read my Yeah, cool. So unfortunately you cannot

1:46:34 understand. That I really am building an

1:46:36 empire and I am so far outside the box that the earth is small

1:46:39 and the sun is bright and I have around 3 minutes left to change

1:46:43 my mind and go back. And of course I always do.

1:46:46 But that is something that you probably are again scrunching

1:46:49 and confusion over. Yet you know what I mean.

1:46:53 It just, it makes me no, this is the bit that I loved.

1:46:56 I mean, loved, but, well, fucking hated.

1:46:58 Yeah. Anyone close to me thinks that I

1:47:00 am likely something between God, Einstein and the Antichrist,

1:47:04 because how can I do anything I want and cross every discipline

1:47:08 boundary like it's a playground and never, ever lose?

1:47:11 But unfortunately, despite the fact that I'm winning, it is not

1:47:14 happening fast enough. What is the problem?

1:47:16 Kim, Oh. God well, so this is the bit

1:47:21 though in. The trial that got him.

1:47:23 OK, so you, my child, are the only one between me and the

1:47:28 other side. I am ready to leave the love and

1:47:31 kindness and goodness and patience that I mix with

1:47:34 everything else that I am and become a cold blooded killer.

1:47:38 The sad fact is that I would sorry, I would go faster do.

1:47:42 Better and catch. More respect and honour by

1:47:44 fucking everyone in the brain, emotionally and mentally

1:47:47 controlling them in the manner there.

1:47:49 That borders on abuse, doesn't border on taking no prisoners

1:47:54 and sending everyone in my way, and especially that that fucks

1:47:59 with me to hell for the simple fact that they thought they

1:48:02 could, much less tried. Doesn't make sense.

1:48:07 It it doesn't. Make sense?

1:48:08 But. Basically a lot of.

1:48:09 Rambling There's so much rambling, but this bit the.

1:48:12 Particularly. That bit where he sees, he

1:48:14 basically says I'm ready to become a cold blooded killer.

1:48:16 He's, I'm ready. He's already a cold.

1:48:18 He's already a cold. Well, truly.

1:48:20 And. Yeah, he is.

1:48:21 Abusive you? Know like apparently Wendy was

1:48:25 physically abused as well as emotionally, emotionally and

1:48:27 mentally by him. He is an absolute piece of shit

1:48:31 and an absolute control freak when she.

1:48:33 Came home from hospital so he didn't even attend the birth of

1:48:35 their second child when he came home from when she came home

1:48:39 from hospital after the birth of their first child, he'd already

1:48:43 entered into this relationship with Kimberly and she got home

1:48:46 from Wendy got home from hospital with their newborn baby

1:48:49 and he'd moved her out of the primary suite like the he'd

1:48:53 moved her out of the main room, put her in the guest room and he

1:48:56 and Kimberly were fucking in the in the main room in the master

1:49:01 bedroom. Like what a fucking.

1:49:03 But then poor Wendy. She's newly postpartum, new

1:49:09 baby, no support, she had no money.

1:49:12 He pulled her from OK the strip club life, but at least she had

1:49:17 a support system there and she was earning her own money there.

1:49:20 He removed her from all of that. Oh God.

1:49:24 Yeah, genuine, utter piece. Of shit.

1:49:29 So he's basically. In prison for the rest of his

1:49:32 life. Thank fucking Christ for that.

1:49:35 It's just where he belongs. What an.

1:49:38 Absolute piece of shit and. He can't harm anyone.

1:49:40 Well, he probably can harm people in prison.

1:49:43 But he can't harm the. Innocent.

1:49:45 Medically fragile. People of.

1:49:47 Texas, exactly. Yeah, I mean.

1:49:50 I think Doctor Kirby hit the Nile on the head that he was,

1:49:52 you know, a clear and present danger to those citizens, you

1:49:55 know, innocent citizens. That's just.

1:49:57 And it could have been anywhere in America that he would have

1:49:59 been able to potentially operate.

1:50:00 Absolutely and do that not just Texas Even so yeah, I think

1:50:04 they're they're getting him putting him in prison for life

1:50:07 is genuinely the only way that they they can stop him.

1:50:10 He he is eligible for parole when he will be 74.

1:50:16 So look you would say at 74 he shouldn't be able to get a

1:50:21 medical license back again you're.

1:50:22 Talking. Surely not.

1:50:23 I don't know. I feel like he's someone who'd.

1:50:24 Like find. A way, surely not God.

1:50:28 But the the difficult thing with trying to get him.

1:50:31 In the Criminal Court was obviously proving that his

1:50:34 training was enough. Yeah.

1:50:36 That he had been trained appropriately and he was

1:50:39 choosing or, you know, or unable to implement his training.

1:50:43 Yeah. Because if they if that, the

1:50:45 defence did try to argue that, oh, he just wasn't trained well

1:50:49 enough and he should have had more training at someone else's

1:50:51 fault, which fortunately the jury didn't buy it and didn't go

1:50:56 with that. But yeah, technically though, if

1:50:59 they could force the issue to be that it was that original, you

1:51:02 know, where he's, where he did residency, that they just didn't

1:51:05 do good enough job of training him.

1:51:06 But the DA. The DA counted that by.

1:51:09 Saying that if that was the case, he would have stopped

1:51:12 after his first botched surgery. Well, this is the thing.

1:51:14 And recognize that he hadn't. Had enough training and.

1:51:17 He couldn't actually perform that and maybe research might be

1:51:20 better suited to him, which they all like.

1:51:22 A lot of people say his research was.

1:51:23 It was, he was incredibly, he's incredibly intelligent.

1:51:25 It was, but then he sorry we didn't even touch.

1:51:28 On this but when he was doing his research were yes he

1:51:33 actually opened a company himself called Dysgenics yes and

1:51:37 that went bankrupt yeah no he was he was this is business no.

1:51:41 He was good at doing the research, yeah, but this is

1:51:43 where his own, his own personality disorder, whatever

1:51:47 would get in his own way. Yeah, because and to be able to

1:51:51 then use what he was learning in his in research, implementing

1:51:54 that where it meant that he was interacting with other people

1:51:56 and potentially maybe having to say to people like, can you help

1:51:59 me do this? Yeah, I need to learn from other

1:52:02 experts. Maybe he would be like, well, I

1:52:04 know how to do this myself and I and do it and he did it wrong.

1:52:07 Yeah. And instead of admitting I don't

1:52:09 know how to do this, he would just push through and go.

1:52:12 Well, fuck you all, it's. Fine.

1:52:13 And it all went to and it's not no, but he seems.

1:52:16 To have this. Absolute, complete and utter

1:52:18 blinker Yeah, on himself of like, what are you saying?

1:52:22 That this is that I'm in debt now almost like what, that it's

1:52:24 not working? Of course it's working.

1:52:26 He's just this full on steam train like, yeah, there was no

1:52:29 stopping him. Nothing.

1:52:31 It's just interesting, everybody who was maimed by him and.

1:52:36 The people who died, I, my heart goes out to them because, yeah,

1:52:39 as you said at the start, you're in such a vulnerable position

1:52:43 when you're on the operating table, whether you're having

1:52:45 your appendix moved, removed. Or spinal surgery, you know, you

1:52:50 are at your absolute most vulnerable in that moment on a

1:52:53 operating table. It's scary for anyone to be put

1:52:56 under the knife of, you know, put under, you know, under

1:52:59 anesthesia, let alone like having spinal surgery.

1:53:03 I know, I know. Oh.

1:53:06 On that note. Let us know what you think,

1:53:08 yeah? And have you the other thing

1:53:09 that we haven't touched on, which I know we're waiting for

1:53:12 it? Joshua Jackson.

1:53:15 Well, I mean have. To say first scene.

1:53:17 Of the, of Doctor death in that series is not a pretty sight for

1:53:22 Doctor for, for Joshua Jackson. And so that that got me a little

1:53:25 bit like, oh, I don't know if I want to watch this version of of

1:53:28 Joshua Jackson because he wears like basically a fat suit, I

1:53:31 guess, like, and he's because he's, you know, they sort of

1:53:33 start at the end, I guess. And so there's an image of him

1:53:37 in prison and looking absolutely shit ass and great, good.

1:53:41 He looks shit ass at that point in his life.

1:53:43 And apparently, according to those who knew Doctor Dunch very

1:53:48 well, such as Kim and Wendy say that Joshua Jackson hit the nail

1:53:52 on the head in in portraying him.

1:53:54 Yeah, he's in his personality and all those sorts of aspects

1:53:57 of him because, oh, he's unlikeable.

1:54:00 Yeah, but I mean, nice to look at during the show.

1:54:02 So he's not the worst because Dunch is.

1:54:04 Actually really ugly, yeah, in real life he's really ugly.

1:54:07 And then you can certainly see like as the time went on, he, he

1:54:12 does get, you know, worse and worse and worse.

1:54:15 Yeah, you can see that the the drugs and stuff, you know.

1:54:18 Taking take and talk, take an effect.

1:54:20 Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:54:22 But really good series. I mean, I highly recommend

1:54:25 checking out and I'm keen to see now see season 2.

1:54:28 Yeah. And obviously then a season 3

1:54:30 potentially later this year. Just in general, as a true crime

1:54:32 fan, they're good. And I think they look as we're

1:54:35 saying, there's some dramatization in it and that

1:54:37 sort of stuff, and you need to take that with it.

1:54:39 But you know, in in generally speaking, as I say, you know,

1:54:42 like Joshua Jackson played the character of Dunch very well and

1:54:46 to and to true form. So, you know, it's it's a good

1:54:50 take on it. Yeah.

1:54:51 For sure. But yeah, yeah.

1:54:53 Oh, wow. That was a big one.

1:54:55 I'll go. Back and watch the mighty.

1:54:56 Ducks this weekend, maybe, though.

1:54:57 Quack, quack, quack. Oh God, I might do a bit of a

1:55:02 Dawson's Creek with it. Although.

1:55:05 That's not something I haven't had a.

1:55:07 Desire necessarily to go back and watch Dawson's Creek.

1:55:10 I have to say the same because I loved it when it was I.

1:55:12 Loved it too on but hung for it. Yeah I don't know what it got to

1:55:17 a point where I got a bit like over it.

1:55:19 Yes, same I think this I can't remember what point but.

1:55:22 Yeah, they should have stopped it.

1:55:23 Maybe. A season before they did, yeah.

1:55:25 Yeah, it's true. Next.

1:55:27 Week we are doing the. Butcher of Delhi or another one

1:55:30 I'm like keen to get into. Yes, yes, good.

1:55:33 Join us everybody for that. Please keep on liking,

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1:55:59 Yes, that'd be awesome. Thanks.

1:56:00 Everyone. We'll see.

1:56:01 You next week stay. Curious crime besties.

1:56:03 Bye.