Episode 53 - Christopher Duntsch AKA Dr. Death

0:14 Welcome back to Crime Besties. We are here for another week in another episode. How you going, Meg? Yeah. It's the same as last week, really. I know, I know. Back here on Repaid, I think with sick kids and it just keeps floating through the family so. Yeah, you know, sharing is caring. Oh yeah, we could it. Be. You know how it be. Yeah. Mason came back from camp and he was like, everyone was sick. I think we were talking about that in our episode last week. Yeah, but now like at the Tailor and of it now, Mason's sick this week.

0:44 Yeah, yeah, he kind of escaped it from the immediate after camp. Like, I mean, although that weekend, all of them, their their footy game, they look, they, they played a reasonable team and everything, but they were all like just exhausted the entire team. That was so. Well, that was so cute. But yeah, they kept little dropping like flies throughout the week, getting sick and stuff. And then, yeah, Mason's copped it by the end of the week, so just his turn. So. Yeah. So he's home and unwell so. Feeling OK?

1:12 Yeah, yeah. So you know, more days off work for me the. Juggle is hard. You were saying today though, you've got him at home, but you've got work stuff that you need to do after we finish recording today. And you know, those kinds of things never stop. It's a tough balance. It is. It is unfortunately in the role. I'm, I mean, there's kind of no one else that can do certain things unfortunately. And so you just kind of gotta make it work. Can we? Do we make it work? Hey super mums. Oh, that's it.

1:37 All of us are. We'll take that, take that title. Absolutely. You gotta do what you gotta do. Absolutely. I'm thickened to the planning of my 40th, which is next Friday. It's one week away. I'm so. Excited. I know when your sister-in-law said to me, I say you're coming right now. You're like Oh my God, dancing shoes and drinking shoes on. Absolutely, Yeah. So that's really exciting, but I've I feel like I thought I had another week, but I. Yeah, but I don't. No, I don't love that. Really, really quickly.

2:05 Really has all of a sudden I feel like it was like when I remember like date being set and kind of going yeah, yeah, that's, that's. Forever. Away. Yeah, that's why we're all good. We're all good. But yeah, bang it to you, yeah. How are you? Are you feeling prepared 'cause I mean? It's, you know, when you do things like this, it's all the last minute stuff that you can't do. Yeah, I've done all of the things that I can do. I think. Yeah, although I am putting. This will come out after the party, right?

2:27 Yeah, I'm putting together little like recovery bags for everyone to take home. And I said to the. Boys, the adult lolly bag, you know. And they'll be lollies. Don't don't get me wrong. Like as if you can have a lolly and, you know, an adult party bag without lollies. I'm not I'm not evil. We. Still need our lollies? Yeah, that's you. But I was saying to the boys, you know, this weekend we'll put those together because that's obviously something we can do a bit in advance. Yeah. And Oliver was like, well, it depends.

2:57 Can we do 1 lolly for me, one lolly for the lolly bag? I'm like, no mate, sorry, but that's a hard no. Yeah, yeah, we'll put, we'll put as many together as we can. And if there's any lollies leftover, I'm out. That you have one payment. Payment. So this morning, right? Friday morning, school morning, Oliver's been going through a phase of having toasties for brekkie. Ham and cheese, tomato. Toasty, Beautiful, Great. See, I'm weird like that. OK, so go close Toasty's lunch. Open Toasty's breakfast.

3:30 What's an open toasty like a melted? Melted one like on the grill, like under the grave. I don't know, that is weird. Yep, sorry. So he's sorry, Ollie. He's having a lunch, He's having a lunch. Toasty for breakfast, lunch for. Breakfast, but if you opened it, fine that is. So funny, actually. Peter actually had an open toasty for breakfast. This morning he didn't want. Two pieces of bread. Yeah. So. Yeah. Anyway, so Ollie's normally been having toasties or porridge. He's kind of alternating between the two.

3:58 Yeah. I have no more ham left. It's Friday. Yeah, I had. We've run out of porridge and we. I only had those like steel cut oats, which bloody take. I mean they don't take that long to cook, but I'm like, I can't be bothered in making that. And Lucas said to me he's like, oh mum, can I have a sprinkle wrap for breakfast? And I'm like a sprinkle wrap, like so fair, like a fairy bread wrap. All right, that's definitely lunch. Oh yes? Well. If you're lucky. I'm learning the hard way. So I was like, oh, and they caught me in a moment of weakness and I was like, Friday, right, Fine, it's Friday.

4:32 Yay. Well, it turns out, just for anybody wondering, sugar on carbohydrates for breakfast when you've got nothing else in your tummy and you're 8:00 and 11:00. Not the best idea. Peter said. I'm the I'm the creator of my own demise this morning because they were bouncing off the walls. I'm so sorry to the teeth because I've sent them to school too today because they were like vibing. On another level, yeah. Oh, I love it. Yeah. It's it's a happy high. It's all good. It's. Yeah. What a Friday that's allowed.

5:05 It's Friday. It's Friday. Yeah, go with it. Yeah, I'm sure there's other kids who'll be worse. They probably put a bit of protein with it somehow or something, I don't know. But anyway, so they went off very, very happy and very energetic to school this morning. I. Love it. No. Well, that's good for a Friday, because Friday's gonna be tough for that. Like, yeah. We're Friday, we're getting towards the end of the term. Yeah, as I was. Walking out of school today, I was talking to one of the teachers he was on.

5:30 Yahoo. I had a chat with him too, yeah. And he said he's like an 11 week term. It should be illegal. The most horrific thing in a primary school? Yeah. Week 9 is when everyone loses their shit, so when there's only one more week to go after that, you kind of pull yourself together and do it. But when it's 2, that's. Hard it. Has felt like it's dragged. Yeah, 11 weeks are the worst. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, next week. I don't know about your kids but all he's got heaps of extracurricular type things on which I think is probably.

6:04 Fair. There's so much in Next. Week through that last week. Well, I'm kind of like they've been all. Sports days. They've got dress up, Dress up days. Yeah, it's gonna. Be a massive week. So much, but they've got like, I was kind of like thinking myself last night going wait, him being sick at the moment and Brody was the week before. Like, you know, that actually means we might get a school holidays where we're not sick. Like it's always these school holidays and I've been on well, so as well. So we're kind of maybe we've got through that, that we'll get to the school holidays and we'll genuinely be able to just have good rest, not sick rest, Yeah.

6:37 And but also have fun things and, you know, enjoy ourselves and get, you know, revved back up for term 3. So maybe it's not that worst thing in the world that we've all been unwell. Yeah, get it over and done. Yeah, surely. Because this winter's been discussed. Oh, it's been horrible. So many people have been really, really sick. Really. Unwell. Yeah, it's been awful. Yeah, yeah. Oh man, I've now got to spend Saturday all day at Bunnings for the, you know. What's the weather meant to be? Reasonable, like, so not pouring, not pouring with rain meant to be dry at least.

7:10 So that's something. I mean, apparently 15°, which is better than the 10 that we had during the week and stuff. So OK, yeah, I'll take that for a Bunnings barbecue on a Saturday. Do you have to be there the whole day? I will, yeah. Wow. It'll be a very long day. I'll be there at 8:00 AM till about 5 I think so, yeah. Yeah, you're a. You're a gem, but you're an absolute gem. Is. Anything better though, than a bunning sausage you know, and a you know the. Did you have to sign the waiver about putting the onions under the yes?

7:37 Under this, onions go on the bottom. No matter how many people whinge and complain because they do, they always do. And you're like, well, I can't do anything. It's gotta go on the bottom we've. Signed something to say we're gonna do. Do. That. That is actually so. Funny, they're really like, that's really rigid on everything, Like because one of the one of my team members was saying like, Oh, I've got an extra marquee. We could, you know, set that up and, and do this. And like, she was like saying, oh, we could have some like painting or something for the kids to do.

8:02 And, and you know, like, that's cool. And I'm like, oh, that would be really awesome. But like Bunnings are like, no, no, no, this is what you do. Nothing outside this box. Yeah, I mean, it is very formulaic and it works. It's it's generally a pretty good fundraise. Yeah, it'll, it'll make us a bit of money. Yeah. Yeah. Just it's hard to find volunteers these days. Oh, it's, and it's always the same people. We were saying this the other day. Yeah, you know, at school, it's always the same parents who are volunteering at sports events, at all of that sort of stuff.

8:29 It's always the same people you see. And look, I understand people have people work commitments and life is really, really busy. But then also, if you want your kids participating in all these extra things, sometimes you do need to like put yourself out a bit and, and help out because it's not fair that it always falls to the people who have that social conscience to yeah, oh, fine, old bloody do the BBQ or I'll do this or I'll do that or I'll volunteer. I'll make this or. Yeah, because they're the same people that, you know, the ones that do come along every time when there's one that they really genuinely can't get to, they kill but kick themselves so much, like over that and, you know, beat themselves up going, oh, I feel really bad.

9:04 I can't help out. Like there's other people very, very easily. Just say no to everything. Yeah, I sometimes wish I was that person. I wouldn't do. I know because we tend to be the types of people who say yes. To everything and always I live on the fact of like I did 4 years as the president of my kids kinda yeah. That I'm entitled to say no now, yeah, but then this and then I do it to myself and like the whole yeah, but these are different people. They don't know I've done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:34 You've done your time. I've done my time well and truly, you've done your time. Well, this is my paid job and I'm still volunteering though. Where's? That come from yeah, that's that's a step above. Actually that is a. Step above because to no benefit of your children. No, that's what I keep saying. It's I'm not benefiting my kids from this. Yeah. But anyway, we will get there and we will get through and we'll get some nice stuff for the kids that are currently. Yeah, they're gonna use it. And that's true.

9:55 That's motivating for the gorgeous little kids that's. It's in your. Service, yeah. Yeah, it'll be fun and we'll have a great day and freeze our. Butts off, but it's all good. Well, at least you'll get a decent sausage. Full male hands by the BBQ. Don't just don't get it. Don't get your fingers too closed. No, we'll melt ourselves off with that, you know, Hand. What are they? They. Yeah. Food. Hands. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you meant hot hands. No. Yeah, Very good. All right, I have a few shout outs for today before we really get started.

10:25 We've got Mad Bullets, EPAV 1986, Buzz Grubo, Rebecca Hillam all gave us really nice comments on socials this week. Yeah, and then we had coffees bought for us by Jade, who absolutely loves it when we call people a piece of shit. So before. You do that this week. Yeah, this one's for you, Jade. What a piece of shit. And then Becky Wilson, who she's also bought us some coffees as well. And she said that our podcast gets her through a long and early days at work. So thank you to both of you. Thank you to everybody who comments good, bad and ugly.

11:03 Yeah, the comments keep them coming. Keep it coming yes no, it's amazing. This week's again, another load of lots of comments and things. This week's been great. We're. Recording this just after we released our 50th episode this week. And we have had such amazing engagement off the back of the 50th episode. So thank you to everyone. I even had a comment this morning. I was at BFT and the guy who owns my BFT, he came up to me and he's like, oh, so you've got a podcast, Do you? I'm like, oh God, how do you know?

11:30 Yeah. And he said, and he's like, well, you did like share it on social media. I assume you want people to know. And I'm like, oh, yeah, yes. I'm like. And he goes, oh, well, I haven't listened to it yet. And I'm like, oh. Cheers. Thanks for your support. But he then he then said it's on his agenda. So Blake, if you're listening to this, thanks for listening. Thanks for giving it a go. Thanks for the support, a minute's all it takes mate and. Then yeah, that's right. That's right. We'll take. It stay for the show, stay for the lot.

12:00 It's good. It's good. This week's episode is an absolute mindfuck. It really, really is. And I have to say, like when I saw that was written down, which episode we're doing, I read off of our thing like, because I think you popped in quite a few of this of like a on our the schedule. Yep. And and I was like, Oh yes, I've been wanting to look into that one. And I hadn't had time to deep dive anything previously on it, but I'd heard about it and I'd seen that there was ATV series about it and all these sorts of things.

12:29 So this was like my opportunity to go. Finally I get to learn about this and holy shit. Oh. It's Oh my God. I mean, there's, so we're talking about Christopher Dunch, Dr. Death. He was the first Doctor death, I suppose. But they've been several podcasts made by made about other doctors who've also sort of gone down this path. Yeah. But he, this guy's sort of the OG in terms of the podcast that came out, the Doctor Death podcast that came out. There's the series too, like so there's Doctor Death is like the he's Christopher Dunch is the is season 1.

13:05 But then there's season 2, which moves on to another fellow Makurini. Yeah, we should do. Him one day too, because it's just as. Yeah, he's an I sort of. I've left it there at the moment going. I'm coming back to this because I enjoyed it, but apparently they're actually season 3 I think too. I. Think later on this year. Yeah, yeah. So that's interesting. There's obviously this is it's an issue I think, I think. Because because of the nature of the work that they do as, as laypeople, even even professionals put their trust.

13:37 And when you go in for surgery, you think that the surgeon and everybody in that operating room and every, all of the support staff, all the ancillary staff are all there to make sure you're going to be OK. And you know, they are highly trained and highly skilled and and the outcome you know is going to be good. Just as it can be. Exactly. And then to find out what we end up finding out throughout the course of of this case, it's, it's actually terrifying. Oh, it really is. And I'm sure it makes people second guess and research more, which can't be a bad thing.

14:12 But then also there's, you know, you have, there has to be information out there in order to be able to discover these things. So I think there's a lot of complexity to this. And oh. So much and I well again this is in America and I know we've had we've certainly had an Australian version of of our sort of doctor death I guess here yeah which again another one we could probably look at definitely down the track, but I think it's less so I wanna say I feel like that the laws and things if have in America sort of didn't help this situation.

14:40 There was there was ways around what you know, reporting things like. Yeah, I agree. And I think the way that the medical system works there, it's very insular. So each state has state. Yeah, yeah. Whereas in Australia we've got a national sort of, you know, database, I guess, yes. So we it's, it's easier and also if you think we're a population of what, 20 this. Is, I mean, a population wise 300 million, Yeah. It's a very different, you know, you really, you can't compare it in terms of the population wise of how you manage the system like that.

15:10 Yeah. But at the same time, oh, have someone moving around, there's got to be a way to like track that. Yeah, agreed. But yes, I mean so much in this we can get into. Let's do it. Let's. So Christopher Daniel Dunch was born on the 3rd of April in 1971. He's best known as being a neurosurgeon who, yeah, as we said, has the nickname of Doctor Death in his early life, Christopher Dunch. So he grew up in what has been described as a very lovely, loving, caring family. Yes. Which do you think that just is at complete odds with what ends up coming out of it?

15:51 Yes, and because of what like we talked about in terms of our experience of going to see that psychologist and what her her nine sorry factors of making a serial killer, which is there's a question mark over this in whether he fits that category or not, which I get and I don't let me don't I'm not not ignoring that fact, but there's aspects of him that I go. Is he the outlier that I was referring to? And I now feel like after now deep diving this, I wish I'd had this information before that night to go only that makes.

16:27 Me think it is. So in terms of the serial killer definition, they need to have killed more than four people. Yes. And he's, he's like, we'll get to, we'll get to all of this, but he killed two people. But is that just because they stopped it before it happened? Or maybe and there were other, you know, people. Other factors, but there were people who the people who. Permanently maimed, This is it. And to me that's it's, it's just about it. It's to me that then puts it into category of he just didn't, he wasn't effective.

16:57 Yeah. Potentially he wasn't effective in any aspect. Well, in any aspect, yes. No entirely, but yeah. So were they attempted? Could they be considered attempted murders and therefore fit the category? Of well, I think, I think one could absolutely argue. That, yeah, yeah. But we can get into it, yeah. His dad, his dad, Donald, was a physical therapist in a Christian missionary, Yes. So again, that kind of is at odds to what? I mean, he's got a personality disorder anyway. And then his mother, Susan, was a school teacher.

17:27 He had two brothers and one sister. And they all like I, I tried to look into a little bit about where they're at. There's nothing really out there about them. If I was a sibling of his, I would have distanced myself big time, big time. So let's let. Them, well, even in the series I know it's because I kind of got down a bit of I was trying to find more about the siblings because in the series it inferred that one of them maybe died, which I don't think is actually real. I didn't see anything. I can't find, I couldn't find that.

17:53 So I think that that was, you know, part of their, you know, dramatization of it. So that's fine. But yeah, 'cause the other thing that in the series that that inferred in terms of the pair of parenting that potentially mum enabled him a little bit, I guess in terms of really boosting his confidence over and over again rather than giving him some reality checks in life. But whether that's factual or again, dramatization for this show, I'm not sure because I get you couldn't get much. I couldn't find much out because.

18:25 Parents have never spoken out no publicly no, nor have his siblings. So that's probably quite difficult. The only reason that we do know information about the family is because Christopher or Dunch's friends have who've some of them who've actually been implicated in all of this in a very negative way. They've had experience and they knew his family. So they've been able to give their account to what he thought the family, what they thought the family was like. But again, perspective from even close family and friends can be very different to what's inside the household.

18:59 So it's really yeah. Take take that what it is. Absolutely. So they lived in Cordova, TN and he grew up playing as in Dutch grew up playing football and he wanted nothing more than to be drafted as an NFL like rookie player. So he said his sites as to do that. And in one of the documentaries I watched about this, they interviewed one of his previous coaches and the coach basically said I think it was a strength and conditioning coach. But anyway, that's irrelevant. The coach actually said that he wasn't great.

19:37 He wasn't a very gifted player, but he was determined. Yeah, worked his ass off, like he would like repetitively do things to try and get it right, but he just didn't have that natural talent. No. And so I think I think he wanted he eventually he did play college basketball, college football, but he played in the third tier. So he didn't make that sort of top tier that would then potentially go on to be drafted into the NFL. So of course, if he couldn't be the best, he didn't want to do it. And so he kind of pivoted then his.

20:09 Desire his dream to He decided to like go down the path of going to medical school, and so he did that. But on the on that football side of things, I feel like we go tick box on potentially one of the nine factors of being a serial killer, whereas I dare say there would have been head injuries, especially for someone who clearly tried hard, like he put in 110% all the time, apparently in respect to it. You'd be the last one at training, you know, first one there. You know, I dare say that head injuries certainly could have been factored into that portion of his life.

20:44 Yeah, I think that's very safe to say. And he played football from a very young age as well, so he knows what kind of knocks he would have endured, you know, throughout the course. Of absolutely, yeah. He still continued to play college football even when he decided once he'd sort of pivoted to yeah, but not in any sort of he couldn't he? Was some sort of limitation to how many times you can attempt to get into college football. I think apparently 33 goes or something out and he had his three attempts and that exhausted all possibilities of getting anywhere with that.

21:17 So yeah, just say he still played, but it wasn't going to be to any level of, you know, quality. Yeah. Football at all? Yeah. He completed his undergraduate degree at Memphis State University in 1995. And then he went on and he was actually accepted into an MDPHD program at the University of Tennessee at Memphis College of Medicine. Yeah. And he earned those degrees in 2001 and 2002. So he actually got his MD, Yes. And then separate to that, a PhD as. Well, so and I sort of go right, well, what's the difference?

21:48 So that's basically what I, the way I watched into was a medical doctor. It gives you like the actual practice of being able to perform those surgeries and things like that. The PhD is the research side of things. So it's quite different. And apparently the research staff, like he's incredibly intelligent is I should say, incredibly intelligent person. And apparently the research stuff, he would really engross himself in that and really do well. So that I found that very interesting. Finally, he stayed just doing the.

22:15 Research. But then he also sucked at at the side of that. I think this is where his personality sort of gets in his own way. But yeah. Yeah. So he in in completing this double sort of degree. Well, the PhD and the MD, yeah, he so apparently in order to graduate from the MD and once we're looking into his neurosurgery fellowship. So this was sort of where things were headed for him for the next phase of his of his career when he was doing his residency. Apparently most surgeons will complete around, I think it's 1000 surgeries during their time.

23:00 He completed a 100, yeah, a 10th of that. And the excuse was that it was because he was completing his PhD research project. Yeah, that he didn't have the OR time and so, you know, that's really detrimental. But somehow he was still allowed to get through his residency. They still signed off on him. Yeah, yeah, they still. Signed him off and signed him off with like really good Marks and grades. Everything was excellent good. Excellent, excellent. And Eve. And during that time he was also suspected of being under the influence of cocaine when he was operating at one time that was during his fourth year of his residency.

23:36 And so they so we had to go and they did actually send him to a facility which is actually just like just for doctors and medical people, which we find very interesting that it's required. So he was sent off to a particular facility to rehabilitate from potentially whatever this is an addiction or, you know, use the use of drugs and things. So there there was known not really completing a full extent of his residency and a known drug problem and they still signed off. On him. Cool. Yeah, cool. And.

24:07 Actually, no, you're not just cool, you're awesome. Like he, you know. Well, I. Think he told people he was. Awesome. This is the thing. That's it. There's a lot of that that went on, I think, where he talked himself into, you know, situations and like telling people what he didn't, he did do, yes, rather than what he couldn't do. Yeah, that's exactly right. Like he, he definitely blew smoke up his own ass. That's well. Truly. Well and truly, yeah. During this time. So this is in 2011. Now, he frequented strip clubs in Memphis and he actually met a woman by the name of Wendy Renee Young.

24:46 Wendy, they began their relationship pretty much straight away. He, you know, saved her from strip clubs in the strip club life. When a hero comes along, I haven't. Heard that one. For a while. And the first time they slept together, Yeah, she fell pregnant with their first child. I didn't know that. Yes, the first. Time. Oh God. That poor woman. That poor. So she was essentially trapped. Yeah. Right from the get go. Around this time was the time where he had to decide where he was going to work and where he's going to establish himself.

25:21 Yeah. And because he was a neurosurgery now fellow, he was very well regarded because I think he told people how amazing he was. And he'd done on paper. On paper, he was very impressive. Yeah. And so he had offers from all around the country. And they eventually decided because Wendy was from Dallas and she wanted to sort of relocate there if they were going to go anywhere, they decided to to go to Dallas. And he was actually offered a fellowship at Baylor Plano. Yep. And they which was an incredibly is still to this day, although it does have a little bit of a mark on its name after all this.

26:01 Oh yeah. Plano was a very well regarded tertiary hospital. So it was a tier one hospital. They did all of the, you know, very specialized surgeries there. It was a very well regarded institution. Yeah. And they were delighted to have somebody of Dunce's credentials. Credentials. Yeah, come and join them in their neurosurgery department. So it's fascinating. So what happened when they moved down to Dallas? Dunch was offered from Baylor Plano. He was offered a $600,000 a year salary. And then there were bonuses and extras on top of that, I think.

26:38 He could was basically looking about at 1.2 million. A year or something, roughly, Yeah, I think you're right. Between 1,000,000 and 1.2 million a year. Yeah, in bringing Wendy and he actually ended up bringing his friend from university as well, Jess down to Dallas and they all live together in this absolutely stunning apartment. Now I say apartment and people probably think it's this dingy little no, this is luxury, massive size of a house type apartment in a really prestigious part of Dallas.

27:11 And, you know, all during this time, Chris and Wendy were, you know, essentially starting to build a life. Genuine de facto relationship really. I mean they were and having child and. Pregnant with their first child? Yeah, it's still early days in their relationship if we're thinking about it like that. Yeah, Yeah. That's very, yeah, that's full on for anyone, you know, to have that happen. I mean, yeah, I can't imagine like you've just met someone and now you're having a baby with them. Really haven't you don't know who that person is.

27:40 And I think she really had any idea who she didn't. She does save up with in interviews that he begged her to have an abortion and she said that that wasn't something she was willing to do. She also for the fact that he kind of dragged her out of her work at the strip club meant that he cut her off from her source of income. Yeah. And so he kind of then agreed to have the baby, too. They've moved to Dallas. She was kind of trapped in that. She had no money. No, she had no way out. She was pregnant.

28:12 And she kind of just went along with things. Yeah, that's hard. I mean like, oh. It would have been an awful situation. For her to be in, yeah, Oh gosh. At the end of his at the end of medical school, though, he was in about half $1,000,000 worth of debt. So the advance that he got from going down to Baylor basically meant that, you know, his debt would be wiped very, very quickly. And, you know, they could, he could really establish himself. And because he felt like he was just, you know, it in a bit and got a gift to the world, he saw that there was not going to be any issues with that.

28:47 Yeah, Unfortunately, very, very early on in his time at Baylor. Plano he did not make a very good impression on, especially on the other surgeons and the nursing staff in the operating room. This blows my mind actually, in terms of doctors and nurses, you know, especially in these sorts of surgery, in surgeries, I think it's a different world and I get to a degree. You have to be very confident in what you're doing. You have to be a particular type of person to be able to, you know, basically you've got a person's life in your hands on the table.

29:23 They are 100% vulnerable and relying on you to do your job to have them come out of this one alive, but also better than they came in. And I do understand that you need you definitely need a certain personality to be able to do that and be able to walk away from it unscathed yourself in terms of the the pressure of that. However, I do really struggle with the fact that not many people spoke up like about what went on in the moment I actually. I think people tried to in the moment when he shut them down.

29:57 I think it would be so difficult because in an operating theatre, there's a hierarchy, Yes. And the surgeon is at the top of. Yeah. And so to question the head of that room would be very, very difficult. Really, I struggle with that in terms of like, I mean, I do, I get it. But oh shit, like that's there's a point where you've got to be like, get this guy the fuck out of here. They did try like we'll get to this as we talk through nursing staff who had a lot of experience as you know, theater technicians, all of that sort of stuff.

30:31 They knew what a surgery entailed and they could see that things were wrong and they would question things or point to different. Structures of an. Absolutely. Like, oh, is that the right place or is that the right field of view that you've got there? Yeah. And that's what flaws me of like coming out of that then that surely they all like would Holy shit, he did this talking and then taking it and reporting it to people that who then should have bloody done absolutely, which there's just. So many points in this.

31:01 Yeah. That that where money. Yeah. And being sued became more important to the hospitals than people's lives, which is disgusting. Absolutely. So let's go through his. Yeah. Baylor. OK, cool. And then we can kind of talk to each one now. It's probably worth noting now that he over the course of the next what year and a few years, he actually only did surgery on 38 patients. Thank God it was only 38. He maimed or injured or had the people had worse outcomes in 30 three of those 38 cases. Yeah, two of them being death.

31:40 Two of them being death, one of them being a quadriplegic. Yeah, coming out of quadriplegic. And that's his best friend. Yeah, but the, so we're not going to go through every single patient, but the there is definitely a pattern and most of the patients experienced a very similar pattern. So yeah, the first patient I was going to talk about, he operated on LED Lee Passmore in December of 2011. Yeah, Lee, I believe, was a Collin County medical investigator that. Blew my mind when I read that. I know it.

32:10 It just, I was like, well, you have all people. You'd think that he, I mean, well, OK, this is where you kind of get to this point. Like a medical investigator has chosen him to be his surgeon. Yep. So he's not silly. He knows what the lay of the land of like who's who's out there in terms of doctors and stuff that goes on. He'd have connections, I'm sure of like, well, who do I go to for this? And that's where I think this is where legally this undoes Chris Dunge a little bit in terms of like, he falsified what, like his status of, you know, he would somehow wipe the Internet of any negative feedback on him.

32:46 You know, he put out false ads and false awards that he he'd won, you know, and all sorts of things to gather, you know, good reviews so that people would come to him. It's it's disgusting that then, you know, obviously this man, you know, intelligent person fell for his propaganda that he put out. Absolutely, yeah. So he, Lee experienced chronic pain and limited mobility after he'd had the surgery with Dunn. Yeah, apparently during the this particular surgery, I think he was having like it was maybe a discectomy or something like that.

33:23 Apparently it was a fairly routine ish type of. Well, this is the thing, neurosurgery, all of his surgeries that he was doing, they were what what surgeons would consider fairly routine. Some of them were literally you don't even stay much more than overnight for afterwards, like it's, you know, day surgeries, that sort of stuff. However, you're dealing with the spine. Yeah, which is it's like, I mean, there's nerves ridiculously like you. So there it is, the. Potential for the potential. For complications is there, but if you do it as it's supposed to be done, it's a very simple situation.

33:54 Apparently that's, I mean, I'm, I'm not a doctor and so I don't want to downplay what they do by any means because I certainly wouldn't want to be operating someone's spine. But apparently. For this particular surgery, there's always a vascular surgeon who gives access to the site. Yes, And in this particular case, the vascular surgeon was a man by the name of Randall Kirby. He was a very experienced vascular surgeon and I. Had Mark Coyle as the assistant. Oh, was. He maybe it's a vascular surge.

34:23 Maybe. But apparently he said that it looked like he didn't know what he was doing right from the get go. No. And it was really, really scary. Yeah. Post surgery, Lee was experiencing severe pain, like far more than what he was experiencing when he went into it. And X-rays showed that the cage that he'd used to stabilize that, I think maybe it was a spinal fusion. I actually can't remember. Yeah. But the cage that he'd used had been misaligned. Yeah. He put a screw through a nerve, so he struck the.

34:59 Threads of that screw as well. And what happened was that so they couldn't take it out because it had been stripped and then. But even if they did manage to get it out, he would have bled to death. Yeah. So he had. They had to leave it in. Yeah. So he said his pain was like nerve pain, sharp pain. He was was incontinent. And one of his his favorite pastimes was swimming and running. And he hasn't been able to do that again since. No. So you think that would have raised what should have been a simple procedure?

35:30 And he's had multiple complications from this. You would think that would raise alarm bells, but no. Well, apparently even during that surgery, apparently Hoyle the the vascular surgeon, he apparently like physically restrained dumped during that surgery to try and stop him from doing what he did. And so there was as there were people definitely trying to stop him, but there wasn't that next level of after the fact going. This is not he cannot go back, cannot go back in theatre. No. The second patient that I wanted to talk about is Barry Mogoloff.

36:01 This surgery happened in January of 2012. He came out of his surgery, so he was the owner of a pool servicing company. So he had a fairly physical job. He definitely needed mobility and he basically wanted surgery because the pain that he was experiencing from, again, I think it was a bulging disc. And then he had nerve pain associated with that. Yeah. He it just got to a point where he actually couldn't, you know, partake in his day-to-day tasks and work was getting more difficult. So he made the decision to seek the, I don't know, the council of a, of a, of a neurosurgeon to see what could be done.

36:39 Yeah. And in doing so, he was recommended Dunch. And Dunch was like, oh, I'll fix you. You'll be pain free by the time I'm you walk out of my surgery. Yeah. He came out of the surgery in extreme pain. Now, Barry actually had a drug abuse history, and Dunch used this as an excuse for him saying that he was in pain and wanting to get more Medicaid, more like opioids or whatever it was that he was prescribing. So he was actually in extreme pain because Dunch had fucked up the surgery. Yeah, but he said, Oh no, you're just saying you're in extreme pain so you can get more drugs.

37:18 You're just drug seeking. Yeah, call him a drug seeker, which is just fucking asshole. Awful it was. He was left with bone fragments in his spinal canal. And then and also, yeah, he tried to he pulled out, tried to pull out a damaged disk with using like some grabbing tool, which is like just not how that should be done at all. Like there was so many things that went wrong in this, I believe. Was Kirby on this case with him? Yes. Yeah. So this is where Kirby comes into play. And he he saw what was going on here and was absolutely mortified.

37:51 Well, didn't Kirby say to him during this surgery like he had to? He said he had to define the anatomy for him and locate the anatomy for him because he knew he was operating in the wrong area. Yes. Like, he couldn't even define. And I mean, this goes far beyond this. This patient, too. He didn't know what he was looking at. No. When he opened people up, he had no idea. He like. Anyway, we will get to that even more. Yeah. So Barry ended up getting a second opinion after this surgery, and the second surgeon who went in to review the first surgery that Dunge had botched basically said to Barry that it looked like a bomb had gone off.

38:35 In the back, yeah, yeah. To this day, Barry lives with extreme pain. He's in a wheelchair. Yeah, he can't. He can't move his legs. He's got limited mobility. Apparently he can kind of like swing his legs, but not He can't wait there. He's. Inner so I mean that's his job gone, you know, like. That's it. He after the surgery and after he'd had the revision and he had the support of that second neurosurgeon who did help him, it meant that he was able to get very limited but some mobility back and definitely lessen the pain that he was in.

39:09 Yeah. He wrote a letter to the medical board and the medical board, eventually, I'm talking, I think it was like 8 months later, responded to him and said that after their investigation, it was determined that this basic standard of care had been met in his case. Oh, you. Can't even. Can't even. Can't Even so. Doctor Randall Kirby, who we were referring to who assisted in that surgery, he was also called in to basically review a number of of Dunge's cases after that there was injuries and things beyond the surgery.

39:40 And he similar to that surgeon that you were talking about there. He made comments of like that it was he he performed situations of like that would be called a crazed maniac really performing. Yeah, right. In the in the his, the injuries and testify his his investigation into all of it. Like basically said that he felt that it was highlighting A deliberate attempt by Dunge to kill his patients. Yeah. He really honestly believed that there was no other other explanation, that no one could perform a surgery of that extent and leave that much damage without just basically wanting to kill the the patient on the table.

40:16 I think it was his hubris that got him there. I like whether he thought he was gonna kill them or not. I think he's almost a moot point this. Oh, yeah, I yeah, he just thought he was. He got gift to the world and he knew. He knew best. And yeah, yeah, it was horrible. The next situation I wanna talk about is the one that really fucking. Gets me, yeah. Jerry Summers. Yes. February 2012. He had. He went in for surgery. This is his best friend from high school. Yeah. They played high school football together.

40:45 They were living together in Dunce's apartment in Dallas. He followed Dunce from Tennessee to Dallas. They were best friends. Oh, yeah. And Dunce was like, yeah, I can fix your back pain, no worries. Yeah, it was his neck. So he had he. Had in a car accident I think so of course the neck pain. Yeah, so he had, he was meant to go in and have two neck vertebrae fused. And apparently this is fairly as and don't just said this to him. It's. Oh, it's an easy surgery. It's very straightforward, routine surgery.

41:18 No worries. Just come and we'll get it fixed and we'll get you sorted out and you'll be good as new. And that's not a lie. As in. Yeah, that's how that should have gone. Yep. But God, did it not go that way? No. So Kimberly Morgan, let's introduce her at this. Oh yeah, yeah. So Dunch decided to employ a nurse practitioner to assist him in his practice. So he'd set up a practice called like at the Minimally Invasive Spine Institute or something like that at Bella Plano in order to assist him with all of the post op sort of care.

41:53 And also in surgery, he employed a woman by the name of Kimberly Morgan. She was a doctor. No, no, she was a nurse. Nurse practicer. OK. Yes. Right. She. She was essentially his assistant. Yeah. And immediately upon hiring her, they commenced an affair. She said that they would hook up two or three times a week at the office. Yeah. They would lie together on the couch. Gross. This is while, you know, Wendy's at home with a young son, I think. Was he born yet or not yet born? No, he wasn't yet born.

42:37 He wasn't yet born. No. Oh, no, sorry. He was he that it would have been a brand new baby. He was born in 20. 11 Yeah, they have a second in 2011. That's a little bit. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. So this, their first son, Aiden, was born at this point. Yeah. Dunch had completely lost interest in Wendy. He was at the birth of their son, but that was about it. He basically wanted the glory of delivering his child and then didn't really provide a huge amount of other support. Sounds like he's patient, doesn't he's a shit.

43:07 Fucking piece of shit. He was just happy going off and and yeah, having relations with Morgan. Yeah, unbelievable. Yeah. The, the I'm gonna, this is an American term, the anaesthesiologist, the anaesthetist on for this particular case with Jerry Summers, she said the interactions between Kimberly and Dunch during this surgery, She said she has never encountered anything so unprofessional in her life. For example, Dunch said to Kimberly, pass me the drill. She passes in the drill and he's like, I'd like to drill you later.

43:46 Oh, oh, that's just disgusting. Your best friend is lying on the table that. But even in any surgery, oh, other people are in that room regardless. I just can't. That's just like, oh, and what the hell like that? What that's meant to turn you on? Oh, she was turned on by it. She loved it. Oh, who are these people? Oh fuck, I know. According to the anaesthetist who was on that day, she was, she's a really lovely woman. Very. She seemed like I'd like her to be my anaesthetist. She was very sort of practically.

44:26 Normally not really like the warmest of people, usually anaesthetist. Yeah, she's, she was, she seemed she you could tell she'd have control over any situation. She just seemed to be that type of person.

44:40 According to her, during this type of surgery, the typical blood loss is somewhere around 50 millilitres. Yeah, in Jerry's surgery he lost 1.2 litres of blood 1/5. Of his bodily bod, his body weight, his body in blood. Volume. Volume, yes. So basically what she was saying is normally you'd see some pink stained, you know, packs and stuff, you know, that are coming in and out of the body, She said. There were sopping blood, sopping packs that he was using to try and stem the bleeding. You know, because there was so much blood loss.

45:19 He ended up using this gel stuff that kind of helps to coagulate and stop bleeding. But he used so much of it. And this goes to further the complications for Jerry in. The surgery that constricts the spinal cord. Yes. But, and he used so much of it that it basically, well, according to reviews from other surgeons, post surgery, Jerry was essentially decapitate, almost decapitated. Yeah. That's just unbelievable. Now Jerry came out of that surgery alive, but barely. He couldn't move his arms and legs when he woke up the.

45:56 Thing was then at that point too, apparently, what what was created in that surgery. The issue can be maybe not entirely, but he could have had another surgery very quickly after that could have really helped the situation and potentially rectified. Well, it wouldn't have, wouldn't have come, wouldn't. Have been as as bad. I'm not saying it would have been, you know, all like fixed entirely, but they could have certainly done something to assist in that situation of like, you know, a bit of an issue and we can fix it to this degree and we can get something back at least.

46:28 But Dunch refused to do that. Well, Dunch didn't even go and see him. No, this is his best mate. He's named him. Didn't even go and see him. So Jerry was frustrated. Now, Jerry and Dunch, in their past, they'd done cocaine together, LSD. Jerry admits he was a drug dealer for a while and he'd partied with Dunch on many, many multiples of occasions. Yes. So Jerry, in order to get Dunch's attention, he said to one of the nurses. Dunch and I were doing 8 balls last night. Yeah, before his surgery. Before the surgery.

47:04 Yeah, he needs to come and sort this out. Yeah, Jerry later on says we won't, we won't. And Dunch was subjected to a urinary drug test based on these allegations, which he passed. But he didn't go and do the drug test straight away. He knew the half life of the Medicare, of the drugs that he'd consumed and when he'd consumed them. Yeah, So he just timed it right. Yeah. As you said, he's not an. Idiot. No. Far from an idiot, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah. So he just, he put it off and put it off. Yeah.

47:34 Didn't answer his phone. Oh, you want me to come in for a drug test? Oh yeah, sure. I'll come in for a drug test today. I know I'm going to be clean because. Yeah, when I now I'm ready to. Yeah. Because I mean, this is the thing. No, they didn't do it the night before. As Jerry said, he, he, he has admitted that. But it was probably the night before that like, you know, it was, it was, it wasn't as if, you know, it wasn't, you know, sometime in that week prior to the surgery that he would have been doing that sort of thing.

47:57 He was a regular drug user. Yep. By the time, just awful. By the time a revision surgery was scheduled for Jerry. So they actually did. They move him to a different hospital. I believe they did. I think they had. Sorry, yes, by the time they had moved him it was too late. It's too. Late. They didn't do anything. No, Yeah, yeah. So he, he remained A quadriplegic and but he died in 2021 of an injection related complication from denture surgery. So ultimately I actually put him in the category of that he is responsible for his death.

48:33 Ohh for. Sure. So as much as we say there was only two people who died of surgeries for him, that was on the table practically, yeah. Whereas I Jerry, I think he suffered. He was a fucking. He was. He walked into the. He he was just he had a stiff neck like, you know, pain and that from his neck and yeah, let's and look chronic for chronic pain. Let's not joke about that. People who suffer from chronic pain for their like I there it is awful, absolutely awful. And I can imagine like going in for surgery and going this is going to fix that would be relief and amazing.

49:05 Yeah, to be able to continue in your life without that daily pain would be phenomenal. But take that over quadriplegia any day. Oh, of course. Just. And then death. Because yeah, ultimately he did 'cause his death. Yep. Oh, that's the hospital. Baylor Plano suspended Dutch for three weeks pending the investigation. Like about the drugs and the drug test and all of that sort of stuff. Yeah. And then when Jerry admitted to the hospital that he was lying about the 8 ball the night before, they reinstated his privileges without without so much as a question.

49:37 That just blows my mind. I I can't. It's it's, it's fucked. It's actually fucked. Yeah. Kelly Martin is the next person I want to talk about. Her surgery was in March of 2012. She was undergoing what they called like a decompression operation. Yeah, routine. Again, routine, nothing sort of out of the ordinary. Probably it is considered the simplest spine surgery that there is. Apparently she'd been getting Christmas decorations out of the attic and she'd had a full and. Full ladder off the. Ladder and, you know, had it had compressed her spine and she was in a fair amount of pain according to her family, yes.

50:18 And so it got to the point where they were like, well, of course, like we're going to now do something about it and see. And again, Dutch came very highly recommended, but. He's false. Reviews. Yep, all of that. Yeah. It was actually the GP or her family Doctor Who recommended Yeah, because he'd gone around, or actually Kimberly had gone around to all of the local family medical practices, like the GP practices, and given his card out to say, look, if you're new, you know, yeah. Sparuking, you know the work for him.

50:48 Yeah. And this GP was like, oh, well, you need a neurosurgeon. Oh, here, this guy's amazing. Yeah. Just ask him. He'll. Just ask him. Oh God, yeah, yeah, he. Said to he said to Kelly and her family who were in the initial pre op consultation. I know exactly how to fix it. OK, well let's just see. It was a one hour surgery. She was only meant to be in for the day. Yeah. And they said she could go home that day. So I love the fact she's got 2 at this stage, 2 adult daughters and her husband. And they went to hospital with her.

51:22 They were waiting in the waiting room. And her husband had done a little bit of research into what this operation entailed. And he said I knew that it was and, and Dutch had told him it'd be about an hour. So they're waiting in the waiting room and they're like, oh, this is strange. It's taking a really long time. Couple of hours sort of thing, which is. It was a couple of hours, I think, yeah, well, let's go and ask and see what's going on. Yeah. So they go to the nurses station and the nurses and they said can we speak to the surgeon?

51:48 Like what, what's happening? Dunge comes out of the surgery, comes and speaks to them and basically says that everything's fine, don't even worry. She had a bit of a reaction to the anaesthesia. We're just getting that all. Blaming someone else blaming. Someone else. So the family are like, oh, OK. So they sit back down in the waiting room. They're waiting and waiting and waiting again. And then they see one of the nurses who'd done one of the pre op checks for Kelly and they go up to him and they say to him where's mum?

52:18 Like what's going on? You're out of surgery. And they're like, oh, didn't you know, she's been taken to the ICU. She's not even on this floor anymore. She's yeah, being moved ICU and they were like. What? So they've been waiting there for I think it was. 4 hours, yeah. And they didn't. Dunge didn't even have the balls to tell them that she'd been taken. To the I don't. Know if he. Didn't think. He didn't think to. That was not. That was not his prerogative. Like, you know, like that wasn't his. Oh, it's, oh, it's just awful.

52:45 So According to him, she was having issues coming out of the anaesthesia. The anaesthetist couldn't get her BP under control and they were like, well, why? Like what's going on? Turns out Dunge during the surgery had put drainage tubes in. At the conclusion of the surgery, which didn't even really actually happen, he took the drainage tubes out instead of keeping them in if there was some bleeding to drain away any bleeding and that way they could keep an eye on what was going on. He's sewn her up and she's still bleeding internally.

53:19 Because he he like cut a, cut an artery, Yeah. Like but he didn't fix it, no. He just stood right back up. Yeah. And she's bleeding internally. Her blood pressure is plummeting. Because she woke up like and was in was screaming in pain and she was so agitated. And I mean, I mean awful. She said my legs, my legs there. Yeah, absolute agony. And then the nurses like, pulled the blankets up and her legs were blue. Yuck. Oh, her legs were blue. They had to re anaesthetize her because of her, because of her reaction and so.

53:53 They thought Dunsch would take her immediately back into. Surgery. Sort this out he. Didn't. No, he refused to like. Like this is something that could have been fixed. Yes. I mean, yes, it would have been a long road ahead for her because of just everything that she'd experienced. It would have been so hard. But he should have taken her back into surgery at. Least repaired that artery like she's like literally going to cardiac arrest and he was outside of her room on his phone. Typing notes apparently, or typing on like typing messages on this phone.

54:28 All the ICU attending was managing her care, when really it should have. Been mentioned should it wasn't even couldn't even give a shit. No, he he didn't even go in to check on her or see what was going on or how they were helping or what they were doing. No. So unfortunately, ultimately she she bled to death. I just wanted to note as well, in autopsy they found that he'd actually been operating more than an inch away from where he should have been. I mean, it's like that's a huge distance from where he should be in terms of that sort of stuff that you you'd be talking millimetres in terms of how far away you should like.

55:07 As in like apparently even 3 millimetres would have caused it catastrophic. Like this is how precise you need to be. You're a fucking neurosurgeon. It's it's disgusting. It's disgusting. Baylor removed his privileges. They allowed him to resign. This is what gets me same and this is where I find. Them liable on Baylor as well 100%. This should never been like they just wanted to escape him basically claiming false termination of his position. Like I mean I'm sorry but fight that. You're not terminating someone on false allegations.

55:44 He needed to be terminated. Have your lawyers work it out. What I've heard them saying is that they didn't want to terminate. I mean, the hospital haven't said this. This is all speculation, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, that. So a surgeon, like a neurosurgeon, let's say he earns 1.2 million a year. Yeah. If he's terminated and then cannot work again because his. Yeah, license is revoked due to this termination, Yes. Or due to being reported, then what? What is it they're liable for? Yeah, Potentially 30 years at $1.2 million.

56:17 Sixty. Odd $1,000,000 they could liable for I get that. But but but but I don't because at the end of the day you've got just cause to terminate. Yes, this. Is what I mean like as you and I get it that that's a lot of money, but you've got an argument that is absolutely to me waterproof like watertight that you can argue that this guy should not be operating on anyone. He needs to be have his license revoked and you're it'll stand that you terminated him for good reason. That's it. But instead they kick the can down the road and.

56:44 Someone else had a problem? That is literally what happened. Yes. He lasted 3 months at Baylor Plano, right? Three months. Three months and how many patients did he absolutely fuck us Hospital. Yeah, that was all for money in there. Because, because he was, because he resigned, Yeah. There was no mark on his record whatsoever. So when he approached Dallas Medical Center, yeah, to come on board and he was like, I'm going to set up a neurosurgery, you know, state-of-the-art operation for you. Yeah.

57:16 Dallas Medical Center were like fucking a yeah, a neurosurgeon will typically typically bring in a revenue of around $3,000,000 to a hospital every year. So for Dallas Medical Centre, which was probably a a tier below Baylor Plano, yeah, a second tier hospital, they were like, oh, sweet. Bring him in this. Is great yeah take the 3 million in record again and all that money and if and then having him here because he's so amazing yeah he'll attract other neurosurgeons and we can build up and we can become a.

57:50 Tier one place, yeah, that's right, a place to go for. Neurosurgery in Dallas. Yeah, this is what they're thinking. They didn't do any other verification. They looked to see if he was potentially going to be investigated for anything that wasn't which. Part of the agreement with leaving Bain and Plano was that they would write a a a reference basically saying that he wasn't being investigated. He had a letter from them. Basically, yeah. And that was it. And so they, they learned that and went, oh, OK, there's not, there's nothing to worry about are.

58:17 You leaving bail of Plano after three months. To my. Prestigious appointment. Yeah, that's got a red flag. Right, a red flag. Ask questions. Ask the hard questions. Reference check like speak to doctor Kirby who's actually been in surgeries with him speak to those people and they would have said don't touch him with it. Do not ten foot barge pole like I think that's where this the whole system is just. Not it's right. Yeah. The next page, so the first patient that he operated on at Dallas Medical Center, which happened in July of 2012 was Shirley Mock.

58:55 He left loose hardware in her back and that needed to be reviewed by another surgeon. So immediately, this was day one basically of him being there. There was like a bit of a question about does he actually know what's going on? What's happening here? Again, the nursing staff asked him to come and review shortly after the surgery. Couldn't contact him. No, they couldn't get in contact with him. He was probably on a coke fueled Bender probably the next 1 is really sad. Fluella Brown 24th of July in 2012.

59:32 So the first thing of note with this surgery, so he is week 1, Dallas Medical Centre comes into surgery on the second day. So he's already had a really poor outcome with Shirley Mock. The next day, he goes into oh, actually, sorry, it was two days later, goes into surgery for with Fluella Brown. Nurses notices that he's wearing the same scrubs as he was wearing the day before. You know how they know this? It's a hole. What's that? Yeah, a hole in his bum. Yeah, the size of a nickel. And he wasn't wearing any underwear, so it was really notable it.

1:00:07 Was really notable. It's gonna be a hygiene issue, yeah. Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Like, you're gloved and gowned and gloved in surgery, but you can't tell me that wearing the, you know, surgeons are scrupulous. Yes, with cleanliness and. Hygiene and maintain. You should be changing your your scrubs between patients to 10. He was wearing the same scrubs. Especially when there's a days and. Yeah, this was. Three days it. Ended up and he was wearing. The same scrubs Nah with no undies too.

1:00:39 Like. Gross. Nah. Oh. Just just that alone to me. Oh, should be. Grounds for dismissal. Red flag like I. This is where I just don't. Understand where they cut that that Bainer plane. I I like sitting there going, you know, oh, no, we don't want to risk, you know, a lawsuit for dismissing him. There's plenty of grounds for him to be gone and to be go. No, no, no, no. He had to go. Not best practice. No, like if nothing else. This is it. Oh God, sterility is. Imperative in surgery? Like, I just can't even, I can't even get my head around how he would think it's OK, but then he also thought he was God's gift.

1:01:16 So yes, the. The nurse, the oh, I know, it's the same one who was. Like, yeah, he's wearing the same scrubs as the other day. Yeah. He also said that he suspected he was on drugs that day. He said he came in, He looked like manic almost. He was sweaty and pale, he said, like, his eyes looked really funny. So yeah, this nurse then told his superior and the charge nurse came and, you know, came and assessed the situation. But and I think the charge nurse then actually did report him to the hospital board or the CEO or something like that.

1:01:53 But during this surgery, nothing actually happened. The during the surgery of Fluella Brown, one of the quotes that done she's known to have made is, I can't say there's too much blood. Keep suctioning. Keep suctioning. Again, this is a surgery where there shouldn't be any blood. Yeah, like, minimal, like a little bit of blotting. Yeah, here and there. But the field was so occluded by blood that he couldn't even see, like, he probably didn't even know what he was looking at. He did. This is where, like, yeah, like, I know.

1:02:24 Doctor Kirby. Commented around the fact of like, he didn't know what he was doing when those sorts of things are happening because anyone doing those sorts of surgeries knows that that's a patient who is bleeding out and you need to do something about the bleeding, not the actual surgery itself. Like he yeah. So that's where he was like, what the hell is this guy doing? He well, he didn't know. He didn't know. Did. He know and he knew what he was doing. This is where I didn't know. We'll get to that, I guess.

1:02:45 Well, when I say he didn't know what I'm saying. Is he didn't have the experience of performing these surgeries under supervision so he but he still thought he. Could do he? Thought he knew better, he thought. He knew better. Yeah, I. Like Teeter? All over that. Of like what he knew and didn't know. Yeah, agreed. I I think I think you're right. So then that night, her husband, Floylla's husband, comes to visit her and she's completely unresponsive. And that is not what they expected after the surgery.

1:03:13 They thought, yes, I mean, it was a, it was, you know, a spine surgery that they knew she was staying in overnight. He expected her to be awake. But. She wasn't and the next morning when he came, I think he actually stayed overnight and he had to sleep next to her. And the next morning she was completely unresponsive. So he got the attention of the nursing staff who tried to get in contact with Dunge. Nope. Do you think they could? Get him. Nope. Two hours it took him to call the hospital back when he had a patient in critical condition

1:03:53 comes in the next. Morning. Guess what he's wearing? Same scrubs. Uh huh. Where's he been? What's he been doing? Also. According to. Several staff on the ward that day. Yeah, hungover is all. Fuck, I'm so diluted. Hang in. Yeah, what the fuck? And. Insisted on going on to surgery again. Yep, so. Fluella Brown This is the. Situation now Fluella Brown in grave, grave danger from the surgery she'd had the day before. ICU were getting nothing. From him to try and manage fluella the imaging. So some imaging.

1:04:39 Was ordered by the ICU attending because obviously that person had to then take over the care of this patient. She was basically having a massive stroke. Yeah, she died. She died. Yeah. He's just awful. There was nothing. The ICU attending could do. No, while fluella. Was dying of a. Stroke. Yeah, Dunch takes. Mary. Efid he was told not to too. He was, actually. Instructed not to, Mary Efid's surgery was fully. Elective, Yeah. There was no urgency. No, she was in a bit of pain. But it was. Nothing she couldn't handle.

1:05:23 She just wanted a better quality of life going into her retirement. Yeah, she was already retired. It could have waited. It could have waited six months if it needed to. Yeah, it was. It was not urgent at all. The hospital said to him, you need to postpone this surgery. And he went like, fuck, I'm postponing. I know better than you, I've already got this schedule. Done doing it now. My thing here is, was he doing this for the money because he was getting caught out again? I think. I just think one of his ego.

1:05:54 It wasn't. Financially driven. I think somewhat. I think somewhat, somewhat. But he didn't want to be caught out. He's like, no, I'm doing it. He knew better than everyone else. Yeah, I don't. Know, I think he but why? Didn't the hospital? Say to him you. Can't. Like they've said to him, you can't or don't operate today. Well, yeah, they did. And then he's overridden that. Like why does he? Have the I think he just. But again, it was just. I think he. Was told no, you're not doing it by up here.

1:06:19 Yeah. And then but The thing is that message he could convince other people around him like, no, go set up the the the the operating room and people did what they were told, but they weren't told by the up peers. No, he's not allowed to do that. You know, I think that's just, well, the communication just, you know, disconnect that unfortunately, it went ahead with him dictating to the the lower people like, you know, this is what's going on because, yeah, they a surgeon, you do what they ask, you know, you get the operating room ready and you do all those things.

1:06:48 But there wasn't anyone from the higher ups coming in and going, no, it's not happening. Yeah, they were telling him that, but he was dictating everyone else. No, it is. Yeah, okay. I think that's where there was just that disconnect of that, honestly. He severed Flowella. 'S vertebral artery yeah. So this is a massive, massive catastrophe in term and a massively adverse outcome. People in the room were telling him to abort the surgery. Entirely. And he just refused. Just refused. And yet then he felt confident enough.

1:07:19 To go in to Mary Eford surgery and what give that a go, apparently, like most, I would imagine any other surgeon pretty much yeah, would be like, oh, I've had a shocking outcome. I need to stop This is the reassess. Maybe get a colleague? To come and. Assist on my next case Yeah, Have some kind. You would do everything you could to make sure you would not have another outcome like that again. 100% there's like other surgeons who have. Commented on this case around the fact of like that they've had one patient on the table in their you know 40 year career who has unfortunately lost their life due to you know complications that occurred that were out of their control that that is the patient they think about yeah every single day that is the never want to experience that again no and that's the toughest moment in their career this guy's now on 2 that have died in very unfortunate situations that he had a lot more control over than those you know with these other situations they were talking about yeah that he's like just move on to the next patient bring on the next body like that's that's that is.

1:08:27 That's. An issue that's a massive issue. Massive. With Flo Ellebrand I just remembered as well. He. Decided that he wanted to do a craniotomy on her. Yes. And the hospital was like, Oh well, no, we don't have the equipment. We don't allow to do that surgery. We're not licensed. Do it that surgery and he's not licensed to do. That kind of thing. No, I'll. Just use whatever you've got here. I can do it. Yeah. And they're like, no, you can't. And so they decide the hospital actually decided to try and move Fluella to another hospital that could do a craniotomedia relief, which they said he wasn't wrong in that that.

1:09:01 Was definitely what needed to occur. He caused that that that needing to be occurred to occur though. So he in that he wasn't wrong in his medical opinion. However, he wasn't, he was not trying to do it. No, there was, you know, nor was he in a hospital that had the facility to be able to do. It that's a whole new level of surgery that needs to. Be, you know, done it was an equipment and he wasn't saying can you get. Someone in to do that? He's just, I'll just do it. And then he blamed the hospital.

1:09:31 On Floella's death, Yeah, like they moved her. That's she died because they moved. They moved her. No, no, no. They died because you sever severed her vertebral artery. Yeah. And she had a stroke. You absolutely fucking piece of shit. Oh God. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but as you were. Saying that like you know to then. Like force the fact of like, you know, this has occurred instead of having any kind of empathy or any normal reaction to that, his reaction was, we'll bring the next one in and we'll get the next patient on the table.

1:10:01 Let's see how we can fuck this one up. So poor Mary. Mary, Ethan. Yeah, I've already. Said he's got this. Field where there's she's there's so much blood he can't even see it. Yeah, the hospital, so the, the people in the operating theater were like, you need to get this bleeding under control so you can see what you're doing. Yeah. And he said I can see it with my eyes. He was, he couldn't #1 no #2 he was inserting screws into her soft tissue. So between the bone and the and into like muscle, basically.

1:10:38 Yeah. I. Saw in one of the documentaries. I was watching. They're like, it would be like screwing a screw into a fillet of tuna. Yeah, yes, like it's holding on there's. Nothing there, nothing there. It's not. Yeah, not actually doing. Anything moving around in the muscle tissue, like yeah. It's he's. He doesn't. He can't even. He doesn't even know that he's put a screw, but that's where she was opposed to bone, but he but that's. Where I go? You know, you just don't. Care as in like, you'd know whether you know.

1:11:05 But how do you? How do you even justify that? Even like, I know it's a psycho, but how do you even be like, Oh yeah, that's cool. I'm just going to leave that there because I think in his warped. Way of thinking. It's like, I'm amazing, this will just work. I don't know. Because he knew he wasn't drilling into bone. You know the difference. You must. You can't honestly be. Going like, oh this will be the right spot. When it feels like that. Oh, he couldn't even see what he was drilling into. But you feel it even then, you know what I mean?

1:11:37 I'm not saying it's wrong that he I mean he couldn't see and that was 1 issue, but you could feel that it was wrong for sure. So there's like you can feel the difference between bone. And muscle, soft tissue even even as. AI mean I'm not saying. I'm going into anyone. 'S spine and doing surgery but I could even tell the difference if I was dealing drilling into bone or muscle like IA 100% will say that yeah so he says he. Says that during this time during Mary's surgery is when the hospital director came into the operating room and said to him about transferring fluella to have the craniotomy at the other hospital.

1:12:11 Yeah, he leaves the operating theatre at this point with Mary bleeding on the table and the OR staff, the rest of the operating theatre staff are standing there going, what the fuck? You never, ever, ever leave a patient open on a table, especially a patient who's bleeding and walk away. You just never do that. That just does not happen. But he's cracked the shits and he's going to sort out fluella well. He didn't, no. No what they suspect. Happened is that he went. And had a bit of a hit at coke, yeah.

1:12:52 Because he's feeling a little bit of pressure at the moment. Yeah. Feeling a. Bit, bit, bit. That's not right. It's a bit. Hard these people, What are they? Doing to me because apparently when he came back into the theatre. He was up, totally up. Yeah, bouncing, bounding in. My God, Ready to keep going with Mary Eford's surgery? Oh, yeah. Believable. Absolutely unbelievable. So Doctor Robert Henderson was then? Bought in to perform like a selvage surgery on Mary Eford now he was highly respected.

1:13:25 She woke up paralyzed the next day from the. Waist down, I think yeah, I think so. Sorry. Go away. So, you know, so he. Tried to go in again and try and fix what it was, what had gone wrong. He was certain when he got in there, as soon as he got into looking at what was what had happened in there, he was absolutely so certain that there would be legal action on this case. Oh yeah. That he recorded his surgery to on on on Mary Ephord. He likened what he found in Mary Ephord to the results of a child playing with a Tinker toy or an an erector set.

1:14:01 Like basically like a Meccano set, like it was not surgery at all. He describes some Duchess surgery as an assault. Yeah. He concluded that if it would have been bedridden for the rest of her life had the salvage surgery not been been operated and performed, he said. He said after that surgery as well that anyone with a. Basic understanding of anatomy wouldn't have done what he did. No. And he said it made him think that he was an impostor. Yes. So that he was he was actually had no medical credentials.

1:14:32 Yeah. He thought he might have stolen someone's identity. And stuff. Yeah. So in order to verify that that hadn't happened. Because he had his own personal suspicion that this might be the case. Yeah. He contacted the University of Tennessee and sent the Dean dunce's photo that he'd had because it was on file from being, you know, he was on the website because he was bloody the Golden Boy of Dallas Medical Center at this point. And the person came back and said, Yep, absolutely, that's him. That's dunce.

1:15:04 Yep, Yep, Yep, he's he's he's amazing. Well, that's that's where Henderson that what he's. Quoted as saying is that he believed that dunce had to have known how to do it right, that surgery, and then chose to do the opposite. Yeah, he was found to have been again. Operating. He didn't even touch the disk that he should have operated on. No, he didn't touch him. No, he's actually. Fucked up in a whole another spot point of yeah, it blows my mind yeah, so thankfully because of. The revision surgery that Doctor Henderson took, Mary, she still had deficits.

1:15:40 She still had, you know, a loss of mobility, but she wasn't a paraplegic. So thankfully, they were able to. He was able to take her back into surgery within that window where he could repair what he could repair. And the results weren't as catastrophic as they could have been for her, but she still had a far lower quality of life than she did when she walked in to Dallas Medical Center before done she was, I mean, she was in a wheelchair and. All those sorts of things. So I just awful. But what completely blows my mind then after that was because he was only new to this hospital and had temporary privileges that meant that legally they didn't have to report him.

1:16:22 Yep, because he wasn't actually employed by the hospital. By this point, at this point, he had, as you said, temporary privileges. If he'd had permanent status there, they would have been bound to report him. Does that not blow your mind? Like to make sure that's more reason that's true I think. Too, Like get him when he's quick. When it's, when it. Before you make him permanent and then before he goes on to then take. Privileges at another hospital and do this again because there's no way that that Dallas medical Centre Yeah, didn't know in doing their due diligence in getting him on board.

1:16:56 Yeah. The next facility's not gonna know either. No, it's absolutely ridiculous. It is. So he lasted one week at Dallas Medical Centre, 1 week 1 killed some week and maimed someone. Yep, God. Like just blows I'm. On So 20th of September 2012. He then is given privileges at Southampton, what was then called Southampton Community College. It's in apparently the dodgiest part of Dallas. Like no one wants to go there. So when this world renowned, this amazing neurosurgeon then tells his patients that he's operating on them at Southampton Community Hospital, they're all like what the fuck?

1:17:40 Like for real? Like OK, well I mean it must. Be good if he's. Operating there like they must have good facilities maybe. But apparently this hospital was in such a state of disrepair, it was basically going bankrupt. And so a group of doctors actually, and then other investors ended up buying the hospital and they renamed it University General Hospital. And they basically were really excited to have somebody like Dunch on board. Now, Kirby, Randall Kirby knew the head guy, the head. He was actually an anesthetist who was the head owner of what was now University General Hospital, which wasn't associated with any university.

1:18:27 But anyway, it sounds good. Sounds good. Sounds like it's a tertiary level hospital there. Yeah. And. They. He rang him and said hey, mate, like they'd gone to medical school together. Yeah. And he was like, hey, mate, this guy, you've gotta watch him. And he and this guy was like, well, no, he's done nothing wrong. I've we've looked up his credentials. There's nothing there. He listen to you, mate. So what? What? Would have gone like oh but. We've. Already given him his privileges, we can't. Take them away now.

1:18:53 They were also scared of being sued. And this is the age that's I mean, that's very. American, isn't it? Like, you know, but then also the other thing I think. This guy was probably thinking. Is he can bring me that 3 million in revenue to my new hospital? Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take the revenue. Yeah, this is it. I mean, again, all about money isn't? It it is. Oh God, Doctor Henderson and Doctor Kirby would not. Give up though, would they? No, they were. Thank God. Thank God. They just kept going, them going.

1:19:19 They contacted is it was it Mari Lopez at the Texas board of Texas medical board and they were they had a conversation, conversations with her and were reporting him. Doctor Henderson actually recorded his initial phone call to Mary Lopez to report Dunge and in the recording. So he just had his mobile phone out and recorded it while he was while he was on the phone. She did not ask him who he was, where he was calling from his name, didn't ask him. He volunteered that he was a vascular surgeon or whatever.

1:19:55 No, he's a vine surgeon. Yeah. He was neurosurgeon. Yeah. And but that was. All. Didn't ask him. Which hospital he worked at? Nothing, Oh my God. And so. And he says, have you heard of? Him have you like have you received our other complaints? We've put other complaints in writing. I'm following up to see what's being done about this because he's had he's had another adverse. Outcome. Now, and they were based they she was like, oh, you know, I can't discuss an open case basically, but wasn't an open case though, like were they?

1:20:25 Looking at him, we don't. We actually don't know. No, we actually. Don't know. Eight weeks after Mary Ford's surgery, he was operating again at University General Hospital. Yeah. This patient was Jeff Cheney. Yes. This was in September of 2012. He'd had a bad back since his 30s. Just one of those reuse. Was this the mechanic? Oh, I get confused because there's Jeff. Glidwell as well and I get confused between the two anyway. Oh, no, he sorry. He was a mechanic, Yeah. Jeff Cheney was the mechanic.

1:20:54 Yeah, I I actually did have that in my notes posted. So he'd had this chronic back issue. He was a mechanic. He's constantly bending over cars. You know, it would have been. It's a really taxing job on your side. He was. Earning 100. $1000 a year, doing really well for himself. He and his wife were like, you know, coming up to a point where, you know, they had they were sort of getting into the twilight of their working careers and and this was something that they wanted to have fixed so that they could go into retirement again, pain free and, you know, finish off the last few years of that's it.

1:21:32 He now can't work anymore after this surgery. He's in constant pain. Apparently after the surgery, Dutch went in and said to him, I don't know why you're this way. Everything went perfect in there. It's not my fault. You know what he'd done. He cut Jeff's spinal cord.

1:21:52 He. Told Jeff it was just the swelling that. Was causing here the paralysis and then yeah, that's right, he said it would it would just. Ease up after time. It's just swelling. He was paralysed from his chest down. Yeah. No, it was because you severed. Yeah, you butchered his spinal cord. Yeah. What? What the fuck? Oh, it's just awful. Oh, just absolutely horrific. December 2012 Text News. He was a young man, very young at the time he went to see. Dunch. Because again, I think he'd had. Was he in a car accident or something?

1:22:32 When? He was. Younger, he'd had some kind of trauma and he when he went to see Dunch, he said that Dunch said to him, oh, you should have had surgery on this five years ago. Yeah, he had degenerated discs. Yeah, for. Whatever reason from an accident. Yeah, right, 'cause that to sort of start. Yeah. And so Dunch is like, we need to get you into surgery tomorrow. Yeah, time was of the essence. Almost like, oh, I might have a. Bill to pay? Yeah. Do you? Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I feel like he was.

1:23:02 Also, rushing his patients into having these surgeries and making these decisions because he basically had to get them in quick before they could figure him out. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what happened with Tex the night before his surgery. So he was scheduled very quickly, I think two days after he'd seen Dunce for the surgery. Yeah. The night before the surgery, he said he was feeling a bit. Nervous and a bit apprehensive. And it did all come about very quickly. He decided to Google Dunce. Yeah. And in doing so, he found out about Kelly Martin's death.

1:23:32 Yeah, he called Dunce. And. Dunge apparently yelled at him and swore at him and basically said why are you fucking questioning me? I am AI am a top of the line neurosurgeon. How dare you? How dare you question me? Would that make you then go no, Oh, I'm not there's? No way I'll be going through the surgery with somebody spoke to me like that 100%, no way. But he did. He did, Josh told him. Though that the patient. Didn't. Die. From. His surgery, it was an A complication from the anesthesia. Yeah, yeah, he blames it on someone else.

1:24:06 It's not me. I'm. Amazing. It's not my fault. Never. His fault. No. So Tex was like, oh, OK. Like he got really angry because it wasn't his fault. And he was so. Like, he didn't want to be blamed for something that was. Oh, well, actually, Tex, you should've listened to your gut. Maybe. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. The day. Of the surgery, the. Anaesthetist gave Tex, you know, the drugs to put him to sleep and text immediately threw up immediately it made. Him so. Sick. Yeah. Apparently the protocol when that happens is you stop.

1:24:38 Yeah. You wait, you reassess. Yeah, the anaesthetist is in full. Control. At this point, it is their operating, it is their their responsibility. Yeah. Well, Airways is there on them, yeah. Yeah, apparently, Dutch said to the anaesthetist. Put him under quick. Text then says he felt as though he was going to die. Oh, my God. Because the night before, Dutch had told him that his other patient had died from complications of anesthesia. Yeah, He's about to be put under. He's vomiting. The last thing he hears is put him under quick.

1:25:10 Oh, my God. How sickening. Oh. God, that's just oh, is there anything more awful to hear before you go under? It isn't even his call to make. Like why did he need to go? Along oh that see again. Some other people are are accountable. Of things I do. Think too, but yeah, I mean, ultimately dunge, but yeah, it's all done. Yeah, but I see what you're saying. Absolutely people had there were other people should have said people should have said there were points of. Yeah. And that that is one of those places, yeah.

1:25:39 So when? Tex came. To he said his pain. As he woke up, his pain got worse and worse and worse, and he likened it to a jackhammer. Yeah. Stabbing his spine. Oh my God, Dunsch. Told him he was. Overreacting it was. Just normal. It was just normal and he. Prescribed him two Percocet every two hours, so 24 Percocet a day. The pharmacist wouldn't dispense that medication because it would cause an overdose. Well, he feared that the doctor so. Dunsch was trying to kill his patient, yes. So Percocet is.

1:26:21 Oxycodone and paracetamol together in in one tablet. So, yeah, this is a drug of dependence as well. This is. And that is actually exactly what had happened. Yeah. Text became addicted to oxycodone Yeah it ended up according to Tex, caused his divorce Yep, and loss of his job. The loss of his job, Tex decided after going through this horrific time so divorce had gone through, he decided to go and get another opinion because he could not live with the pain following this surgery, this new. Neurosurgeon who he saw said his.

1:26:55 Spine had never been touched. The hardware was floating. Between. Bone and muscle tissue. Oh my God. Now what on? Earth. The definition. Of a psychopath, yeah. Lack of remorse, A superficial, glib charm, Impulsivity, callous disregard for others, entitlement, manipulation. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Every one of those boxes here. What a. Fucking like I. Just how did he How? Was he still? Operating, that's what and even. Like at this point, like where, you know, we've got Doctor Henderson and Doctor Kirby who are reporting and reporting, reporting and trying to get him found out for who he is and having push backed from all angles, they then lobby towards the, the, the Texas like medical board.

1:27:56 That's who they're talking to there. But they also. Then go towards. Go to the oh God, what am I trying to say? The prosecution like to the district, the District Attorney, sorry, that's the word I'm looking for. Yeah, they go to the District Attorney and sort of try and start that Ave. of like legal action to get him. They realize that the only way this is going to stop is to get him off of being able to do any more surgeries whatsoever. So what they were saying was that. His actions were criminal.

1:28:22 Yeah. So this wasn't medical negligence, medical malpractice? Medical malpractice. Yeah, it went beyond that. Yes. 2 criminal. It's now murder. Murder. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't know what. Would stick? Potentially no. They they because they pursued all. Of the right avenues. Yes, they tried. They'd gone to the CEO of Baylor Plano. They'd gone to the Texas medical board. They'd gone to the power of hospitals, other places he was was at. They were telling. Everyone, yes, and they were all just like passing him on to someone else, which is so disgusting from what I from what I can gather.

1:29:01 When you're reporting to the medical board, right? Yeah, complaint from a patients like down yes, a complaint from another doctor or from nursing staff or another doctor is sort of middle of the road. Middle of the road, yeah, A complaint from a hospital is like red lights flashing. We need to do something about this because for a hospital to make a complaint. Something really bad. Must be going on. Something really bad was going on. Why would they? They weren't doing it all because they just. Didn't want to get sued.

1:29:30 Yeah. Like, it's so disgusting, like, so bad. It shouldn't be that they should feel that way. It should not be that people are scared of getting sued when people are dying. That's right. It should not have been that hard to say. This guy should not be doing what he's doing. He has to be removed. Yeah. Because even the District Attorney basically was like, oh, totally what we're saying. But I don't know if we've got a case. Here, like they. Well, it was unprecedented. Yeah, completely. Unprecedented to pursue.

1:29:57 Criminal charges, yes. Against a doctor, against a Doctor Who was operating. Yeah. In the operating theatre. So they were like, where does the delineation happen? Yeah. And I get that. There is definitely. It's a fine. Line for surgeons I mean, where, you know, if we go prosecuting one doctor because someone dies on their operating table, like all of a sudden we can't operate on anyone for anything. Simple things because what if the person dies and I'm gonna get put in jail I'm gonna go. Who'd wanna be a doctor?

1:30:22 I get that. Yeah, completely understand that. However, this was at a. This is way beyond that. This is not, you know, minor complications that unfortunately, I mean unforeseen circumstances have meant this person has died on a table. This is someone who is performing surgeries who doesn't have the capability or maybe does and is choosing to not use them. That's a whole. Nother. Level of insanity like so something had to be done here. This was not Yeah. And I guess that's where I understand from a legal perspective that they are treading in unknown territory and also sticky territory to avoid all doctors then going well, fuck this.

1:31:04 I'm not getting involved in doing surgeries because I'll I'm going to lose my license to be put in jail for like one thing that might go wrong. But that wasn't. But that's not what this was. And that's where they had to. Really figure out how to navigate that and yeah, what charges to bring Yes, while they were. Trying to figure that out. He was still operating at University General Hospital. Yes, in April of 2013, he. Operated on Philip. Mayfield, he had a herniated disc in his neck. He was a truck driver, so he'd spent years and years driving trucks, sitting down.

1:31:32 And part of his job was actually unloading the truck. So he was, you know, lifting heavy things, bending in weird way. Yeah, not great. Have you seen an interview with him? No, he and his. Wife. Oh my God. They love each other oh so hard. And they, they've got their children are in their 20s. They haven't killed each other yet, no. And they, they fully actually, for reals love each other. God, they basically they're like, oh, I can't live without you. You are amazing. You're my rock. I couldn't have gotten through this without you.

1:32:05 And she was like, well, I couldn't have gotten through life without you. So of course, Oh my God, it was just so good. And not even icky when they do it. Oh, not icky, no. Like you just you are down. To earth, beautiful people like gorgeous, gorgeous people. That's rare, Absolutely. Love you Peter. So apparently he. Screened. 5 or 6 surgeons, he was, he was really apprehensive about having this surgery. But again, it got to a point where he couldn't even stand and watch his kids play football games because he was in so much pain.

1:32:34 So it's like it's time to do something about it. Screened 5 or 6 different surgeons. Dunch had great reviews. When he went and met with Dunch, he said I've done thousands of these surgeries. He'd done less than 20 throughout his entire career. Slash training, he said his office looked really. Professional. Dunsch told him that it was a 45 minute operation, run-of-the-mill standard. Could do it any day of the week easy, could do it with his eyes closed. It turned out he was actually in surgery for somewhere between 6:00 and 8:00 hours when he.

1:33:09 Woke up unbelievable when he. Woke up he. Couldn't move. He couldn't. Feel anything from his chest down. He was told he would never walk again. To this day he uses a Walker to get around so he was actually able to gain some movement back but he can't wait fully wait there. So basically gone from not being able to stand at. His kids sporting events to not be able to stand anywhere anywhere. That's fucked. He also because of this. Something happened. I'm not quite sure exactly the mechanism of this, but there was something to do with his blood pressure now and it can just plummet and he just passes out at any moment.

1:33:49 Holy. So he can't drive anymore, which is his bread and butter. Yeah. And he'll just, they'll be somewhere. And he doesn't even feel it coming on. He just passes out. Oh my God. That's awful. Oh my God. He did have. I'm sorry, yeah. Sorry. Go. Oh, no, I was just gonna say his final patient. Are we up to there? Are you Jeff Glidewell? Yeah, yeah, go. Yeah. All right. So. It's Jeff Glidewell was. His his final patient that he was able to operate on and again, fairly routine surgery, although when he got in there he mistook part of his neck muscle for a tumor and removed it.

1:34:27 No, no, no, it was his. Esophagus. His esophagus. It was meant to be like a routine. Cervical Fusion. And but yeah, it went in and decided like, you know, oh, there's cancer in here is a tumor, I'll just remove things that should have been removed. So he severed his vocal cords as well, cutting a hole in his esophagus at the time. So, and he sliced an artery as well. So basically. Absolutely. Botched the shit out of this. He then stuffed surgical sponges in with all this because it was obviously causing more bleeding.

1:35:01 And then when he, yeah, 7 artery shoved all the surgical sponges in and then stitched him up, left the sponges in there. Now he was warned. I mean, there's there. Is a nurse in an operating theatre who is taking note? That is their job, to take note of what goes into and out of the patient and record all of that. Yeah, that nurse and other assistants in the theatre. At the time, yeah. You've left a sponge in him. Yeah, they're telling him not. Care. No, he sewed. Him. Up. With the sponges. Still inside SO.

1:35:33 Disgusting. It ended up triggering a. Severe blood borne infection. Of course it did. I mean, yeah. So you went into sepsis.

1:35:43 They had to go back in and remove it. But it's just, it's so disgusting that Paul, it was Kirby that went in to repair the damage again. So Doctor Kirby again. So they called him in and gave him temporary privileges. At the hospital in order to fix this, yes, so he described. The damage found after opening him up that it was again, this is where he spoken about him being a crazed maniac. He said it was attempted murder. Yeah, he reckoned that there. Was it had to have been that he was trying? To kill the guy because no surgeon would do that knowingly.

1:36:13 And he did it knowingly. Yeah. So it's it's for him, this was like an he was already, this guy's got to be stopped, but this was like the end of his, you know, ability to go, this is not OK whatsoever. This guy cannot be. He's trying to kill his patients. Even identify the difference between an esophagus. And a tumour now? Well, he said that there is. Not a botched surgery like this that has ever been done in the United States. He went as far as that. That there is no. Surgeon who would do that surgery ever in the space you know what I think is like a.

1:36:52 Little bit funny about. This. Oh yeah? Well, if there is something. Jeff Glidewell says that when he was. On his way to hospital that morning, a black cat ran across the road in front of him. Turn around and go home. And he's like, and he's like, I just wish I was more suspicious, more of a superstitious person. And I would have turned around and gone home, but he's not. I wasn't then, but I am now. Absolutely. Oh, I would have turned around for sure. So like, you know, this poor. Man, and he his injuries are forever sustained because his vocal cord was severed.

1:37:24 He's got changes to his voice. Yeah, he ended up having the esophagus repaired, but he still has deficit. Like there's still issues there with swallowing and Kirby being a brilliant surgeon. He was. Able to, you know, get back a fair bit for him, a fair bit of function. But yeah, he just. Shouldn't have to have. Needed to occur, should it? Like absolutely disgusting. So Kirby went on to then obviously after that and doing that he again reported against the medical board and in that he wrote that he called a sociopath and a clear and present danger to the citizens of Texas.

1:38:02 He also said that you. Must remove. You must. What do they say? Revoke his medical license immediately, He said. Yeah, I'm not mincing words anymore. I'm not making this professional. I can't not. It has to be black and white. They do not understand like the absolute severity of what's going on here. So they did. Fortunately at that point on June 26th and 2013, they did remove Duchess license, suspended it. Well, yeah, yeah. Suspended. Sorry. Yeah, they did suspend at that point to be investigated.

1:38:31 Yeah, thankfully that that you know that they did do that and didn't go. I will investigate, you know, and leave him doing things. They did suspend it whilst they investigated it couldn't not. Oh my God. Oh. It should never have got to anywhere. Near this, Yeah. So upon this. Suspension. Obviously, he can't then practice. He was in so much debt. Dunsch was in so much debt. It was like $1,000,000 worth of debt. He was then arrested for driving under the influence in Denver because he'd actually moved to Denver, Co, in amongst all of this, because he needed to get away, because people knew who he was.

1:39:06 He was everywhere. There was a lot of media coverage. Yeah. And I believe Wendy had moved to Denver to, I think she had a sister there or something. She tried to get away from him, did she? And then he followed her there. Yeah. And. He stayed one night with the sister and her, and she got pregnant again in one night. Oh, my God, They. She must. They must be so fertile together. And the timing of things like to basically the first time they ever slept together, she fell pregnant. This was one night he was back.

1:39:36 Yeah. They hadn't slept together for years at this point. Oh, my God. Slept together again. And she fell pregnant with their second son. Oh. Why is it like people like him that can be that? Fertile. Really, how much drug is too he probably exactly exactly. So he was arrested while he was in Denver for driving under the influence. Yeah, he really spiraled. He really did. And then he was. Arrested in a Walmart for shoplifting. I just got to get my nose pants or something. Was it? Oh my God, I've written a.

1:40:06 List because I was like what? The fuck? Sorry. Office supplies, Diet Coke, pants, a keyboard, A hat? What the fuck? And the CCT VS really. Funny of this because he puts the hat on. I mean, it's a Anyway, it's a hat. He then puts everything into one trolley. Yeah. And then he's got a staged trolley that he set up elsewhere with bags in it that he'd left in a different area. He collects all these fucking random things, right? He goes to the trolley that he'd set up and he puts all of the shit that he's stealing into these bags and then he just walks out the front door.

1:40:48 And I mean, the CCTV is so clear, you can see exactly what he's doing. So security get him and bring him back in. Yeah. What the fuck did he like? What the fuck? Oh my God. Do you think there weren't? Cameras everywhere. I. Just, I don't know. I don't know what he thought. I really don't. Know. Oh my God, yeah. Yes, so. The attorney general filed a motion to intervene in the suits to defend Baylor Plano. So this was now where the prosecution was going in the District Attorney was going in terms of prosecuting him.

1:41:21 Yeah. In the state of Texas, unfortunately, I guess, for the individual patients involved, there is a cap of $250,000 in terms of suing a doctor for libel. Yeah. And, and so most of his patients, like 33 of the 38 patients had definitely had the right to sue him, but they would only only get that 200 and. 50,250 thousand, unless they pursued. Criminal action against him, but he was already in debt. He'd already filed for bankruptcy. He was in over $1,000,000 worth of debt when he filed, yes. So they weren't actually going to get anything from his personal estate.

1:42:02 So no, these people who have are now crippled and oh, their medical bills and their, you know what their. Life was going to be from that point on, from his surgeries was going to cost way more than that. Absolutely. Oh God, yeah. Touched the surface. No, no.

1:42:19 So we're at the point now where? What? He's arrested? Yeah. So this is in July of 20. 15 So this is about. 18 months, I think, after his medical license was revoked. Is he? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, about 18. Months after, yeah, he was arrested in Dallas and. Charged with six felony counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, 5 counts of aggravated assault causing serious bodily injury, and one count of injury to an elderly person, which was Mary Ethan. Yeah. Now the District Attorney decided to pursue Mary case first because that actually came with the longest possible sentence that could potentially give you life in prison.

1:42:58 Whereas the other one, other others would not get that kind of sentence. Yeah, apparently with that charge it was somewhere. You could have a sentence between two years and life. Yeah, so there was a big scope there, but they were obviously aiming for life because of everything that he has Kirby had said that they had to get. Life he felt because otherwise he would find a way to do surgeries again. That was his belief 100%. I I think he's spot on. He was, because he'd also applied. So, yes, Duncan applied for medical licenses in California and Colorado.

1:43:31 Yeah, yeah, I. Think you might be right, yeah. It was, at least. Two, Yeah, he was. He was already, he was already putting houses in other states. Yeah, while he was being. Indicted. Exactly so the other. Thing they're. Also fighting here. Was that there was also a statute of statute of limitations on being able to put this into place and and actually indict him. So when they did finally get him on this and get him into get him charged with these, they only had four months left on that statute of limitations.

1:43:59 So they were really fighting to get this through as quickly as possible at that point to make sure that because if they had gone any longer, they literally were not able to get him on it. Which, oh, God, that's scary to think that if they they just hadn't got a step right and, you know, somebody had pushed them back further to wait to get this going, they would have been out of the game. Yeah. So the trial went ahead as you. Said it was. Time was absolutely of the essence. But it did go ahead. It took 13 days of trial.

1:44:28 It took the jury 4 hours was to deliberate and then one hour to decide on his sentencing too. Yeah, they were. They were very much all on the same page. So this is fucked up. Yeah. So they sentenced him to life. In prison, Yes, on the 20th of Feb IN201711 of the things that got him in in. Court was his e-mail. Oh my God, is this the Occam's Razor? Have you? Seen this? Oh my God. Oh yes I have. It is now the the e-mail. You an e-mail is what, a few paragraphs long? You'd think at best. Yep, this e-mail goes on and on, and it is it is ramblings of a lunatic.

1:45:10 Oh, absolutely. Have you read the whole? Thing because it's hard to read the. Whole thing, it's like 10 plus pages. It's it's the. IT is the ramblings. Of an absolute lunatic. I'm just going to read some of the Yeah, read some of the bits. It's really interesting. OK, I've got. One bit here, he repeats. This a number of times throughout it too go unfortunately you cannot understand sorry this I should say this e-mail is to Kimberly Morgan is that right yes Yep Yep. So he's sent this e-mail to her, I believe because having the relationship, but I think she'd kind of gone on one out and of the relationship and his this was his kind of response to her leaving the the relationship.

1:45:52 Yeah, this because previous to this, all of the emails. Between the two of them were I love you, you're my soul mate. I can't live without you. I had eight orgasms with you last night. Oh my God. Whatever. Anyway, then she's she's obviously cottoned. On to the fact that he's fucked. Oh yeah, and she wanted to get away. She ended up actually having an affair on him with another man Anyway, she's an interesting, but that's a whole different story. But because he was rejected by her, yeah, this is what came out.

1:46:23 There was his response to her rejection. Like which? To me just screams narcissist. Oh, this is this e-mail. Is go. Read. Read your book and then I'll read my Yeah, cool. So unfortunately you cannot understand. That I really am building an empire and I am so far outside the box that the earth is small and the sun is bright and I have around 3 minutes left to change my mind and go back. And of course I always do. But that is something that you probably are again scrunching and confusion over. Yet you know what I mean.

1:46:53 It just, it makes me no, this is the bit that I loved. I mean, loved, but, well, fucking hated. Yeah. Anyone close to me thinks that I am likely something between God, Einstein and the Antichrist, because how can I do anything I want and cross every discipline boundary like it's a playground and never, ever lose? But unfortunately, despite the fact that I'm winning, it is not happening fast enough. What is the problem? Kim, Oh. God well, so this is the bit though in. The trial that got him. OK, so you, my child, are the only one between me and the other side.

1:47:29 I am ready to leave the love and kindness and goodness and patience that I mix with everything else that I am and become a cold blooded killer. The sad fact is that I would sorry, I would go faster do. Better and catch. More respect and honour by fucking everyone in the brain, emotionally and mentally controlling them in the manner there. That borders on abuse, doesn't border on taking no prisoners and sending everyone in my way, and especially that that fucks with me to hell for the simple fact that they thought they could, much less tried.

1:48:05 Doesn't make sense. It it doesn't. Make sense? But. Basically a lot of. Rambling There's so much rambling, but this bit the. Particularly. That bit where he sees, he basically says I'm ready to become a cold blooded killer. He's, I'm ready. He's already a cold. He's already a cold. Well, truly. And. Yeah, he is. Abusive you? Know like apparently Wendy was physically abused as well as emotionally, emotionally and mentally by him. He is an absolute piece of shit and an absolute control freak when she.

1:48:33 Came home from hospital so he didn't even attend the birth of their second child when he came home from when she came home from hospital after the birth of their first child, he'd already entered into this relationship with Kimberly and she got home from Wendy got home from hospital with their newborn baby and he'd moved her out of the primary suite like the he'd moved her out of the main room, put her in the guest room and he and Kimberly were fucking in the in the main room in the master bedroom.

1:49:01 Like what a fucking. But then poor Wendy. She's newly postpartum, new baby, no support, she had no money. He pulled her from OK the strip club life, but at least she had a support system there and she was earning her own money there. He removed her from all of that. Oh God. Yeah, genuine, utter piece. Of shit. So he's basically. In prison for the rest of his life. Thank fucking Christ for that. It's just where he belongs. What an. Absolute piece of shit and. He can't harm anyone. Well, he probably can harm people in prison.

1:49:43 But he can't harm the. Innocent. Medically fragile. People of. Texas, exactly. Yeah, I mean. I think Doctor Kirby hit the Nile on the head that he was, you know, a clear and present danger to those citizens, you know, innocent citizens. That's just. And it could have been anywhere in America that he would have been able to potentially operate. Absolutely and do that not just Texas Even so yeah, I think they're they're getting him putting him in prison for life is genuinely the only way that they they can stop him.

1:50:10 He he is eligible for parole when he will be 74. So look you would say at 74 he shouldn't be able to get a medical license back again you're. Talking. Surely not. I don't know. I feel like he's someone who'd. Like find. A way, surely not God. But the the difficult thing with trying to get him. In the Criminal Court was obviously proving that his training was enough. Yeah. That he had been trained appropriately and he was choosing or, you know, or unable to implement his training. Yeah. Because if they if that, the defence did try to argue that, oh, he just wasn't trained well enough and he should have had more training at someone else's fault, which fortunately the jury didn't buy it and didn't go with that.

1:50:56 But yeah, technically though, if they could force the issue to be that it was that original, you know, where he's, where he did residency, that they just didn't do good enough job of training him. But the DA. The DA counted that by. Saying that if that was the case, he would have stopped after his first botched surgery. Well, this is the thing. And recognize that he hadn't. Had enough training and. He couldn't actually perform that and maybe research might be better suited to him, which they all like.

1:51:22 A lot of people say his research was. It was, he was incredibly, he's incredibly intelligent. It was, but then he sorry we didn't even touch. On this but when he was doing his research were yes he actually opened a company himself called Dysgenics yes and that went bankrupt yeah no he was he was this is business no. He was good at doing the research, yeah, but this is where his own, his own personality disorder, whatever would get in his own way. Yeah, because and to be able to then use what he was learning in his in research, implementing that where it meant that he was interacting with other people and potentially maybe having to say to people like, can you help me do this?

1:51:59 Yeah, I need to learn from other experts. Maybe he would be like, well, I know how to do this myself and I and do it and he did it wrong. Yeah. And instead of admitting I don't know how to do this, he would just push through and go. Well, fuck you all, it's. Fine. And it all went to and it's not no, but he seems. To have this. Absolute, complete and utter blinker Yeah, on himself of like, what are you saying? That this is that I'm in debt now almost like what, that it's not working? Of course it's working.

1:52:26 He's just this full on steam train like, yeah, there was no stopping him. Nothing. It's just interesting, everybody who was maimed by him and. The people who died, I, my heart goes out to them because, yeah, as you said at the start, you're in such a vulnerable position when you're on the operating table, whether you're having your appendix moved, removed. Or spinal surgery, you know, you are at your absolute most vulnerable in that moment on a operating table. It's scary for anyone to be put under the knife of, you know, put under, you know, under anesthesia, let alone like having spinal surgery.

1:53:03 I know, I know. Oh. On that note. Let us know what you think, yeah? And have you the other thing that we haven't touched on, which I know we're waiting for it? Joshua Jackson. Well, I mean have. To say first scene. Of the, of Doctor death in that series is not a pretty sight for Doctor for, for Joshua Jackson. And so that that got me a little bit like, oh, I don't know if I want to watch this version of of Joshua Jackson because he wears like basically a fat suit, I guess, like, and he's because he's, you know, they sort of start at the end, I guess.

1:53:35 And so there's an image of him in prison and looking absolutely shit ass and great, good. He looks shit ass at that point in his life. And apparently, according to those who knew Doctor Dunch very well, such as Kim and Wendy say that Joshua Jackson hit the nail on the head in in portraying him. Yeah, he's in his personality and all those sorts of aspects of him because, oh, he's unlikeable. Yeah, but I mean, nice to look at during the show. So he's not the worst because Dunch is. Actually really ugly, yeah, in real life he's really ugly.

1:54:07 And then you can certainly see like as the time went on, he, he does get, you know, worse and worse and worse. Yeah, you can see that the the drugs and stuff, you know. Taking take and talk, take an effect. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But really good series. I mean, I highly recommend checking out and I'm keen to see now see season 2. Yeah. And obviously then a season 3 potentially later this year. Just in general, as a true crime fan, they're good. And I think they look as we're saying, there's some dramatization in it and that sort of stuff, and you need to take that with it.

1:54:39 But you know, in in generally speaking, as I say, you know, like Joshua Jackson played the character of Dunch very well and to and to true form. So, you know, it's it's a good take on it. Yeah. For sure. But yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. That was a big one. I'll go. Back and watch the mighty. Ducks this weekend, maybe, though. Quack, quack, quack. Oh God, I might do a bit of a Dawson's Creek with it. Although. That's not something I haven't had a. Desire necessarily to go back and watch Dawson's Creek. I have to say the same because I loved it when it was I. Loved it too on but hung for it.

1:55:14 Yeah I don't know what it got to a point where I got a bit like over it. Yes, same I think this I can't remember what point but. Yeah, they should have stopped it. Maybe. A season before they did, yeah. Yeah, it's true. Next. Week we are doing the. Butcher of Delhi or another one I'm like keen to get into. Yes, yes, good. Join us everybody for that. Please keep on liking, commenting. The subscriptions are great. We can see that they're growing all the time too. We know that there are more people who listen to us who haven't subscribed.

1:55:46 So that goes a massive way in getting us out to other people. So if you're listening today and you haven't subscribed on whatever podcast app you're listening to, please do it. It really really follow or button and. Yeah, and share us with a friend. That'd be great. Yes, that'd be awesome. Thanks. Everyone. We'll see. You next week stay. Curious crime besties. Bye.