Episode 50 - Celebrating 50 episodes and Martha Stewart

0:15 Episode 52 crime besties welcome. Here we are. Some said we'd never make it. Oh. Who? Who? Actually, at at some point, both of us. Yeah, Can you imagine? We're back like, you know, thinking back to like episode 1 and like just getting the guts to like freaking speak into the microphone. And now we're at 50. 50 we're we're a year in. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Yeah, well, it was more than a year ago that we recorded that first episode. It was, yeah. Pulled down now, which I think meant to record twice from memory.

0:47 Yes, we did. We had a bit of a technical issue. We didn't have producer Pete on board, I think at that point. So I think we're all learning still. So yeah, we've come a long way in 50 episodes. Our sound quality certainly gotten better. So if anyone's discovering us for the first time, please forgive the first. I think it was 10 episodes. Yeah. Until we got better equipment. But we did our best. We didn't know what we didn't know. So yeah, that's OK. We leave and we learn and we're growing all the time.

1:16 We still have those original marks. I like pulling out every now and then. I like the look of them. Me too. They are pretty cool. Yeah, they're they're OK, but they're not like what we've got now. Oh God. No, no. When I go back and like you listen to those original episodes, it's like.

1:31 Oh, oh, yeah. I mean, oh, yeah, they're not, they're not amazing. But you know, look at us. Oh my 50. So it's in Love it. We're recording on a Wednesday night tonight, though, because random, because our bloody kids have a curriculum day on Friday. So we've had to shuffle things around. The things we do. Yeah, the things we do. But I love the routine we're getting into so much that like, I was around at my mum's the other night and she's like, oh by the way, of course I'll have the kids on Friday for you so you can record.

2:00 Oh, Patty. But we've already organized, we've already worked out we're going to do, enabled it, give a system another time. Well, clearly you'll need time to record. Number one priority. Thanks, Pat. Appreciate that. Absolutely. But yeah, no, we can manage it. We can do this. And we're a little bit dusty and tired after a long day of work, etcetera, but we're here. And it's just telling Meg. I was woken at 2:45 this morning by a child who I think got cold. When I walked into his room this morning, his blankets were all on the floor, so he came into our bed.

2:32 But I didn't go back to sleep after he came back in because I thought it was time to get up. That's just that. It wasn't. And then I was too awake anyway. So forgive me if my, you know, it's like my bedtime. Oh, anytime it's gonna be. It's almost my bedtime. Actually, now I'm a shocker. Meg's a midnight. Meg's a midnight bedtime gal I. Can't I can't do anything different. It just, I don't know, I'm a weirdo and I I'm a night. You're a weirdo. You're a night owl. That's OK. Because the mornings freaking suck.

3:03 Yeah, I bet. I can't handle mornings. Yeah, I'm sorry, but fuck off. See. I I wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed but I'm in bed by like 930, asleep by 10 pretty much. 9:30 is still halfway through the day. Lunch, anyway. What do you do that time of night? Oh, OK, see, it's by the time I get the kids off and done completely and then do a few tidy up things around the house, it's 99. You know, you're pushing that 9930 as it is that then I that's my time. I like it right. What's a show I want to watch?

3:33 OK, and I'll watch like one of my my series I've got going or something. You know what I'm watching at the moment. That's amazing. Sirens have you? Watched it, I haven't. Oh, get do. Yourself. I have heard about it. I've it's actually you're going to say. Something else then? Oh, what? Well, it's season 2 of Secret Lives of Mormon White at the moment. Loving that, absolutely loving that, and I love the fact that they dumped the entire season in one go. I was in shock because I didn't Bravo. I didn't know was.

4:02 It bravo, whatever. One of those, one of those I. Feel like it's got Andy Cohen written all over it. I was, I had no idea that like there was that it had been, it had been released. And I was like, oh, what? I'm going to watch, you know, and like went flicking through and then went it's, it's out and then realise the whole season was there and I'm like. Oh my God, that's gift. But at the point. But I got to the final episode. Oh. I'm not even. Oh yeah, yeah oh, 'cause I had a weekend without the kids so I was like bring to this yeah and I got to the end but all I didn't think it was the end because cliffhanger.

4:35 Oh and I'm like, hate that. I'm like, I just assumed oh OK, they've released the 1st 10, there's more to come or something. Yeah and I'm like there'll be another one next week. Went there and then it didn't come and I was like, Oh no, like that's. No. So we have to wait until next year. That is shit. I'm really annoyed. That is really. Shit, although I've now it's stupidly gone down a rabbit hole of like the whole Jen and Zach. Oh, Affleck. Oh. And I've been listening to like the viral files. Oh, it's actually so good.

5:08 Yeah. What? What are your thoughts on him? OK, so during this season I'm flipping around 'cause I actually by the end of this season, I'm actually like, it's her. But I feel for her entirely. I don't want, don't get me wrong, yeah, she goes through a real tough time. Tough time, Yep. But I think she's kind of caused it in the in the in her behaviour. Drama I. Don't know that likes the drama and I think she she lies and she doesn't realise that she's lying yeah and I think she gets herself caught up in these things and all of a sudden it's now.

5:37 Oh, but why is everyone turning on turning on me? Because you didn't tell the truth. You've spun things for one person and and now you're upset. Why? The other persons are like, angry with you. But you said the wrong thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's a bit her. Yeah. But he's. Oh, I mean, there's absolutely ingrained misogyny in him 100. Percent there's ingrained misogyny in. In the church, absolutely. And so it's it is what he's growing up with and I can see him trying he's. Trying, trying. Well, at least he's trying on camera.

6:06 Yeah, but there's in that file files, Yeah, like episode, there's some stuff in that that he says that I'm like, oh dude. Mate, Yeah. No, he still hasn't quite. He's not all the way there yet. No. You know, good on him for trying. Yeah. Well, it's more work to be done. Yeah, yeah. At least he's acknowledged the fact that there is work that needs to be done. This is true in that. Sorry to everybody who doesn't watch more. You're not. I get on it. Can't believe you don't. No. Start from Season 1 Sirens.

6:33 I have to say. Julianne Moore. Oh my God, I love her. Oh. She is great. Kevin Bacon. Excuse me? Why have I not? Oh, you need it is it is phenomenal bacon and. They laugh. Don't. Don't we all? I've actually been following him on Instagram. Oh my God, Yeah, He's, I love him, Yeah. He's got, he's good. He's awesome. Anyway, a couple of recos for everybody. One day we need to work out our 6° of separation to him. Oh. We will. That's actually fair. We should probably do that. Yeah. That should be a priority before.

7:06 Pretty sure I've done it once before, but I reckon we, yeah, we can definitely do that, yeah. OK, cool. Yeah, I'll make a note of it so that we don't forget. Please do. Very. Important 50th episode. We did put a shout out to everybody to see who they wanted us to cover and what we wanted to do. And we decided to go with something a little lighter than what we normally do because, you know, we've had a lot of doom and gloom over 50 episodes. Yeah, the previous 49 episodes. So today we're going to be covering the case of Martha Stewart.

7:37 Oh, I have loved researching this. It's given me life. So I'm actually given me life as opposed to sometimes when we're researching, I'm like, oh. It's so hard, like so. Hard. Sometimes you just walk away. It's been great. I was telling you this morning, I was in the shower and the kids were in the bathroom with me. And I mean, don't call child protection or anything, but we were listening to some Snoop Dogg and some Doctor Dre, obviously. Absolutely. Anyway, it was really good fun. So it's really kind of like reacquainted me into that, that scene as well.

8:11 I'm not hating. We should. You just don't think that. You say Martha Stewart, and that's got It's gonna be what you think of next. Hold on a minute it. Is now time but. If you don't know we will get to it, we'll get there. I have some shoutouts before we start and then it's been. A big week. It's been a massive week. We have had so much engagement this week, so please, we can't shout out everybody because it is just, yeah, it's huge. The amount of messages, the amount of DMS, the amount of likes and comments and everything that we've been getting.

8:41 We love it. Please, we we see everything. Even if we don't reply to everything, we try and catch up. I was just catching up just then when we were setting up. But thank you so much because when we see them coming through, it really does motivate us to keep going. Absolutely. That means so, so, so much to us. Yeah. So on that note, I would like to shout out Lauren Pentland and Karen Cardwell. So they both have bought us coffees in the past week. Karen actually asked us to shout out her brother Nick because Nick got her into the podcast and.

9:15 We shout out Nick. Nick before. Is it maybe? Different Nick. I feel like we've shouted out and Nick before, but I'm not. Sure. I don't know if it's the same 1. I don't know if it's the. Same one. But yeah, Nick, thanks for sharing the love. That's exactly what we need to If everyone shared it with one person, that will tell us true crime. Yeah, it would well might even be able to monetize. Oh, that would be amazing. We also have a shout out another a few other people have actually bought us coffees this week as well.

9:41 We've had Talia Lee. So Talia is actually the girlfriend, the partner of Peter's best mate. And she wrote that she's, she found our back catalog, I think, and now she's all caught up and she doesn't know what she's gonna listen. To that's, I'm getting a lot of that at the moment. Yeah. We hope you're getting there. We're getting there. So thank you. Thanks Talia and Terry Shannon as well bought us a coffee as well. So thank you very much to everybody. It really still blows me away that people, you know, are donating to us to enable us to, you know, continue the podcast and really see that value in our work.

10:16 So thank you to everybody. But in equal measure, we really appreciate comments likes all of those things all go towards growing and doing all of the things that I. Just I just say it's even just like that, you know, motivation to like, oh, absolutely, totally does help you get like get along. I mean, every time, like I'm as I'm like looking at a a case. And and as you say, sometimes it's hard. Yeah. I mean, when you get a bit, Oh my God, I can't, if I can read any more about this case, whatever.

10:40 But you're getting the messages at the same time about people who are enjoying what we're doing. Yeah. For such a variety of reasons that you're like, no, I've got to keep going. Like we've got to keep. Doing this, it's really good fun. Yeah, I mean in a in a weird way. Yeah, in a weird. Well, I mean, it was a weird way. We're out on Saturday night, the two of us at a show for Doctor Rachel Toles, who is a psychologist and she did a show in Melbourne here, psychology of serial killers that we went and saw and it was really fascinating.

11:06 But it was very interesting this like everyone's, you know, it's why are we interested in serial killers and all these sorts of things that was discussed and it was, it was really interesting to see why I loved her take on it. Oh, me too. That whole, you know, like that we spend so much time as females trying to escape these sorts of, you know, like walking through car parks, etcetera, that we, this is our, you know, our research to make sure we, we stay safe. Yeah, that's so, yeah. I think that's really fascinating that how we we, we just love true crime and there's so many people that do.

11:33 Yeah. Well, so Rachel is a Canadian forensic and criminal psychologist and she filled Hammer Hall, which is one of our big theatres in in Melbourne. And I think they said there were 1700 people there and it was, it was amazing. And you know, everyone there was a true crime fan. And in sitting in the row in front of us, I don't know if you noticed, but sitting to my right, there were a couple of teenage boys. They didn't see that, yes. I'm like, oh, this is actually further reaching than I thought.

12:04 You know, I didn't really think, but I found her take on serial killers very, very interesting. Yeah, she, she talks about the formula of a serial killer and she, I mean, she goes into it in a lot of detail. And she said she's publishing or about to publish a book about it. So keep an eye on it. Look at her Instagram. She's got a really good Insta. She she does it. Instagram's fantastic. Yeah, she's. Really, really informative but really engaging as well. So she says there that there are sort of nine hallmarks to the making of a serial killer.

12:37 And all of the serial killers that she studied have all nine of these hallmarks. So they are genetics or generational trauma issues from mom, issues from dad, the home life. So moving around, you know, some kind of disruption in, in the home life of the child, the the child's brain aged 3 to 5. And this is where they developed paraphilia, which I found that. That was fascinating. I didn't. Realize it was so early and in such a short span of time like it has to happen within that three to five age bracket to kind of yeah, really cementing and when.

13:13 You think about brain growth and development, Yeah, they are the key years of that sort of thing going on. It's it's so unbelievable. But yeah, and that's so ingrained from that point. That's yeah. Brain injury. So she's talking about, you know, injuries from sporting things, from being dropped as a baby. Traumatic, Traumatic. Yep. All of that, like, could be deprivation at birth, All of those things. Yeah. Yeah. But all of them have a brain injury of some sort. Yeah. All of them have been bullied at some point or had trouble making friends.

13:45 Ages 8:00 to 11:00. They have a significant life event or a significant traumatic event. Yeah. And then hormones. So yeah. But look, please follow it. It was awesome. I really really. Fascinated and reflecting back on the ones that we have like discussed here and, and looking at those markers you kind of I kept because I sat there I said to you the question I had was there'll be an outlier like who's the outlier? I want to know who the outlier is and like, but everyone I kept going back over of what we've talked about, like, no, no, no, that one's not it.

14:14 No, no, I can tick all those boxes for that one. And yeah, it's pretty, pretty crazy. And for her to. Say that every serial killer she studied. Oh, she studied way more than. Exactly than we would know like that's that's really fascinating. Couple more shout outs before we get on move on. There's Emma Pav, Nicole, Rebecca Hillam and I've got a couple of personal shout outs. So today I bumped into an ex work colleague of mine named Edwinner, and she said she watches us. Oh God, on our TV.

14:45 Oh, so thanks, Win and a wave. Yeah. And also I thought 50th episode. I'll do a shout out to producer Pete. Well, we should, shouldn't we? He wouldn't come in. Come join us. No. So we were like, let's talk about our favorite episode over the last 50 or the last 49. So we're going to talk about that in a SEC, but we really want to produce a Pete to come in and tell us what his worth we. Can tell him what he said. We can say what he said, but he didn't want to come on on camera. He said. We're the talent.

15:13 Well, he's not wrong. No. We'd show him up for sure. Oh God, yeah. Anyway, so his favourites were Snowtown because he said he didn't really know anything about. That and learned a lot and. Learned a lot. And then we went there. Yeah. And he got to be in a tick tock. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, liked that, yeah. And then also the Elizabeth Holmes Theranos, because you dressed up because. He likes it when you dress up. Oh, gross.

15:39 You know, in a black turtleneck and my hair slicked. Back like the Rock. Yeah, my heavy gold chains. Yeah. Dark. Yeah. Alright, I need to know. Yeah. What is or are your favorite episodes that we've done? OK, up until now, similar to producer Pete, I've got a favorite that like was the light one. I guess I really enjoyed doing Melissa Kadik. Oh yeah. And and the fact that there's still really like this overhanging of like, is she hopping around somewhere like without a foot situation? Like, and even recently, just the other day, someone on Tiktok, there was quite a few people all of a sudden randomly studied.

16:17 Like I had some polls up back then on our Tik Toks and we always all of a sudden got some like people putting answers in on the pole and it was still think she's alive. And I looked at the pole and went, jeez, we've now got quite a few people who've commented who've, you know, selected 1 and it was like 50 to 48%. Like it was like, yeah, it was really interesting that it's really quite split. Yeah. That of like people think of terms in terms of whether or not she's still around or not. So that was, I really enjoyed that.

16:47 And I mean, pause off, I mean, because you can't listen to the music. Pause is on. Love it. It's that music. Just it's the best. That was that really was. Yeah, that was great. Yeah. But then in terms of a really, I guess that was a really tough case to like investigate, like investigate from that perspective of like doing all that. But at the same time, it was, I wasn't really proud of how we just like put it out there and put more light on it. I felt like a lot of people commented around the fact of like, you know, they hadn't thought about this case in a long time and brought it to the forefront again.

17:19 I think was that the Candalese 1 and Carly and Candalese. I think that was a a good. Lost bills? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was a that was a toughy. I found that one really hard. Yeah, but yeah. But I enjoyed what it did. Yep. Yeah. And that's part of the reason in a way. I mean, we, we, we're not deluded. We know that we're not, you know, solving the world's problems over here. But no, one of the things when we talked about starting the podcast was about bringing awareness to cases. And if we can do that, great, because it keeps the memory alive of those people who've been victims or survivors in these situations.

17:56 And yeah, that's kind of part of the motivation for us in in with certain cases in particular. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite. Yeah. I've got three. Yeah. So I really liked the Sophie Toscan Duplontier Yeah episode because I, well, I actually really liked the drunk horse anecdotes. That when you brought that, I was like, oh, this is gold. And I also like really enjoyed researching that one. I know, I mean, she obviously met a very, very tragic end to her life, but I found her life really fascinating and I didn't know a huge amount about her as a person.

18:34 I'd heard about the case and I knew roughly about the case, but that was AII actually quite enjoyed researching that one. The Beaumont children was another one for me because again, in Australia, that's one that everybody knows. And to find out more information about it and go a little bit deeper in researching it. I, I, I felt like, again, we probably did that justice and you and I both formed an opinion that you never know, it might actually come to something now. So there's been a little bit of development since we've recorded that.

19:07 But yeah, it was, I, I don't know, it was so tragically sad. But still, people, as you said before, people commented on it and really liked finding out details that they didn't know previously. Because we know those kids weren't missing. That's about what people know. But yeah, the detail of it the. Detail of it, yeah. And the tragedy of what those parents went through, Like, I didn't know all of that side of it, you know? Like, yeah, that what what transpired for them was really tragic. Yeah. And then my third was, and this is actually not a very popular episode that we've put out, but I, again, really enjoyed researching it and it was kind of like from a very different perspective.

19:49 But it was the Aaron Hernandez episode, yeah. So first of all, I mean, it wasn't the worst thing in terms of pictures to look at, so. You know, did enjoy it. Was that especially that tight shirt with his handcuffs behind him? But. But it was also the fact of, like, the CTE that his brain then showed after, you know, after everything kind of went through after he passed away. Yeah. And that being an explanation for possibly why things happened. I mean, it's no excuse. It's not. Excuse, but yeah. Possibly an explanation for what was going on for him and the more I read about CTE and it gets referred to a lot now more yeah, a lot more now in the media you've.

20:30 Rachel Tolls brought it up the other night, you know? Yeah, yeah. And you hear about it on the news. You hear about it when you know our elite athletes are choosing not to participate. Far more research into that side of things and the brain, yeah. Like, I think about it from a grassroots perspective, being that our kids all play footy and AFL football, which is really rough. Yeah. And they don't wear helmets. Not that. I mean, we went through all of this in the air and Fernandez case, but yeah, it worries me because I feel like we don't know what we don't know with that stuff.

21:01 And they're copying little knocks here and there a lot of weeks. What does that mean? What does that accumulate to? We don't actually know. So yeah, I just found that one a really fascinating one to research. Yeah, yeah, well, such different ones I remember. And Pete also said he liked the Ashley Madison one too. Yeah, that's. Another one of our it didn't like has been has like lower views or lower listen. Yes, yeah. But again, it's not the lighter one. I mean, yeah, it wasn't technically death in that one.

21:30 No. Well, there was. There wasn't like. Murder. Yeah, he's like, I like any of the ones that don't involve the murder of children. I'm like, yeah, fair. Yeah, well, they're completely fair. Yeah, completely fair. They are definitely the tough ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good. Today's though. Oh, this is a bit fun. It's a bit. Fun. All right, let's get going. We're gonna get into it, yes. All right, so Martha Helen Stewart was born Martha Helen Kostura on the 3rd of August in 1941. We all know her as an American retail businesswoman, a writer, ATV personality, and a convicted felon.

22:16 She was born in Jersey City, NJ and was the second of six children to her parents, Martha. So her mom was Martha as well and her father Edward Costera. They were both of Polish heritage and Martha and her siblings were first generation Americans. Both of her parents were very well educated. They were both teachers and even though they began their careers in that profession, as soon as her mum had children, as was the era, she stopped work and became a a homemaker. And I mean with six children. Oh yeah, As if you'd be able to hold down a full time job at the same time, no.

22:55 A lot of Martha's take on that later on, 'cause I mean, she only had one child herself, but but she did say like, you know, well, you know, back then in the day, you know, if you, you're struggling to look after the children, you just have another one to look after the other children fairly. Was that easy? Fine. But I do find that comment really interesting because she was the second eldest. Yes. So she would have like been in that role, although. Expectation was that she would, yeah, that she would take on care of her, her youngest siblings.

23:21 Yeah, although her dad saw her as being the most like him and really did take, take take her under his wing a lot. And so she had quite a strong relationship with him. He was very, very firm person, very strict by the sounds of things. Yeah, to the and particularly to the other children. But she, she was his favorite. Yeah. Yeah, because she. Well, she says that because he was an absolute perfectionist. Yeah. And she was a perfectionist by nature. That was perfectly perfect. Yes, we hear that a lot.

23:52 Yeah. And yeah. So I guess he saw in her what he liked about himself or what he valued in himself and really took her under his wing. And but he also expected perfection of her, but he also then expected perfection of all of the children, all of his children. Yeah, Martha was able to rise to that occasion. So she was very much she. Yeah, as you said, she was perfect, you know, in every way she could be. And that's how she's lived her entire life in some ways in until she was convicted, I guess. Yeah.

24:25 Yeah, she at the age of 10, she was cooking family meals. And I'm talking like elaborate family meals. Her mum taught her how to cook and sew and her dad taught her how to garden and and all of those things were very, very important to her. The gardening thing was interesting that all the other siblings, they were interviewed in particular when I was looking at and they all hate gardening now because he was so like belligerent around like how they had to look after the garden because what they would do is they would grow all because they weren't, they weren't wealthy, no by any means.

24:56 And they would grow all of their produce and then what they couldn't grow in their garden, they would then trade what they had with others to get what get other food. So they they were very resourceful and but it was so strict on how the kids were to take care of that garden that they all now hate gardening. Whereas Martha, how does she love to garden? Did you watch the Netflix documentary about Martha? Yeah, about Martha Stewart. It's really worth a watch. It goes for a couple of hours, but it's it is really worth a watch because in it you can see how she now as an, you know, 70 odd year old woman.

25:30 Oh, eighties, 80s. Yeah. How she treats the people who now tend her garden like she treats them the way her father, I'm sure, treated her. Yeah. You know, she was telling one of her. I'm gonna call him her subordinate because the way that she spoke to him was just disgusting. Yeah. But she was like, you need to trim that back better. And you know how to. You need to prune that hard. That's gotta, you know, survive over the winter and you know, this person was just trying to do their best. But no.

25:55 And she she says she's like, I don't I will never turn my back to something. No, if I don't think it's right, I will make it right. And. Look, I can. Respect that, but to to be an asshole. I know there's there's certainly. A nice way to do things. I mean, I'm sure she's got very high turnover of of her stuff. Yeah, what about in the documentary? I know this is probably jumping way far ahead now, but she has a go at one of her sous chefs for using the wrong knife to cut an orange. She's like, you shouldn't be using that little knife she was using.

26:27 It uses a little knife to cut things. You need a big knife, Yeah. But flee and then she told the camera to turn. Told the the film team to turn the camera off because she knew she was being an arsehole. She was gonna be even more of an arsehole, yeah. Yeah, I'm like, come on, Martha, You've had, you've been brought up like this. But she's a very interesting personality and she's very interesting. I would love to know whether she has a diagnosis. Nah, going around undiagnosed. I'd say I well, because yes, yes, she's yes, there's certainly nothing out in in the open.

27:01 But no, you watch that documentary and you think, oh. And that documentary was like, I mean, she fully takes part in that documentary. She's oh, it was, it's her perspective, her perspective. So I mean, because I'm, I was watching it kind of going, there's certain things in that way. And because in my research, I have to admit it, it go to some places and the information was not accurate. And I'm like, yeah, because someone's come in and and wiped that information because you have to go to the right places to get the right information on her because she's far reaching.

27:27 And so she's got some. Like there's some stuff to support her all the way. Absolutely. So that documentary, you do have to kind of at points of it, kind of go, did you? Yeah. But did you say that? But her true colors do shine through too. So you can watch it and get the whole picture really. So I think it was a book very well done. Yeah. At 8:00. So her father then finished teaching and he became a pharmaceutical salesman. And Martha said that he was way too smart for that job. He was bored in that job.

27:58 He never progressed because it wasn't challenging enough for him. And it was sort of a means to an end. And I mean, the fact that she sees that in him and he was unable to do anything else, I don't know. It was it was a bit sad. It's. Interesting. I wonder that whether that's what he told her, you know, and that was that's him like, you know, the language coming out of like, you know, I'm better than this. I don't need, you know what I mean? Like I wonder that's. But then she feels, she feels like she's better than a lot of.

28:23 Things exactly. Yeah, so. It's a it's a whole attitude. At age 10, she was babysitting for New York Yankees players, kids. So they met through neighbors and in the neighborhood, and she ended up at 10 years of age, babysitting children. Was that? Was it Mickey Mantle? It had four boys, and she would babysit them and plan their birthday parties and do all those sorts of things that, I mean, I'm not aufait with the New York Yankees and who the players are. I have heard of that name, Yeah. There were a few other names bandied about and I'm like, I've no.

28:57 Idea. I don't know who they are. She would get paid $0.50 an hour for babysitting back then, Yes. They lived across the road from a girl who had a mum, mum and daughter. And the daughter was quite a successful model. Yes. And the mum said to Martha one day, well, you're pretty enough, do you want me to introduce you to the agency? And she was like, oh, well, yeah, why not give it a go? So I think it around aged 15, yeah. She became a model. Her first ever television commercial was for Unilever for Roland deodorant.

29:28 Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah. It would have been the new fandangled thing, because in. Black and white, the ad and she, I mean she, she is beautiful. Oh she's so gorgeous the her modelling photos, that's stunning. Absolutely stunning. She even modelled at the age of 15, modelled for Chanel. Chanel. She. Was doing luxury brands right from the get go. Yeah. And she thought it was fantastic because she earned $15.00 an hour. Yeah, that was a lot. Of money, she was a lot of money and she said she ended up having to give a lot of the money back to her mum to pay for her siblings and just for food because they were really struggling to make ends meet at that time.

30:05 But that. $15.00 an hour was that was a lot of money to be earning. So I mean amazing. Especially at age 15. Crazy, but she did the modelling right through her her university days as well. So she did did catwalks and things like that. But she did a lot of a lot of print magazine and things like as well and adverts, but so it was so varied. She really did was able to do it all. And she she says like she wasn't a supermodel, she wasn't to that level, but she certainly did some. I just say very top notch brands and in at very, I mean the photos are just incredible.

30:36 I I think they're stunning. Absolutely stunning. Yeah. She did a lot of editorials and that kind of thing. Yeah. She used her modelling money to supplement her college tuition. So she did get a scholarship to one of the most prestigious schools within Columbia University. And it was she went to. It was a Business School, wasn't it? And actually got her degree in history in architectural history, History I. Believe it was like the actual school was like a business type school, right? And she did incredibly well.

31:12 There very well. She's very intelligent. Very, very intelligent. She tells the story of one of her classmates at the school would roll up in a Rolls Royce every day with a driver. Oh, wow. And this lady, this girl she became sort of acquaintances with, and she ended up coming over to Martha one day and saying, well, I've got a brother, and I think you 2 should go out on a date. Yeah. And so they did. So she, at that time, she went out with Andrew Stewart. His name was Andy. She called him. And he was actually studying a law degree at Yale at the time they met and felt.

31:54 She said she fell in love with him at the 1st dinner that they had together. Yeah. They, their first date, he picked her up, she said, in a yellow Mercedes-Benz. And she'd never been in a Mercedes before, So she thought that was amazing. Yeah. And then he paid for dinner with a black American Express credit card. And again, she said, like, only like that was unheard of. You know that only the. Elite. So did she fall in love with him or his? Mother, well, she, she said he was very kind. He, she was the anti.

32:22 Sorry, he was the anti of her father. So he was gentle, he was kind, he was engaging. But he said that's not how. Like, that's not how her dad was described though, is it? No, and it's interesting. It's not how she describes Andrew by the end of their marriage. Not by the end of their marriage, no. But she what she's saying is like his her her dad at this time, her dad. Yeah. And Andrew was so at opposite. Oh, right, sorry, I. Misheard. Yeah, they were at opposite ends of the spectrum. So she really fell for his gentle, caring, kind nature.

32:51 Yeah, right. She loved him. Hard, yeah. Really, really hard. And she said, well, you know, at that, in that day and age, what were we to do? We'd fallen in love. Of course. We got married. Yeah. So in July of 1961, that's exactly what they did. They got married and they started their life together. They went on a six month. Honeymoon and the honeymoon sounded amazing. Oh my God, yeah. I mean, she, she fell in love again, I think with doing that too. I fell in love with travel. She fell in love with the cuisine that she was, you know, because America, I mean, even to this day that, you know, American food, they're, you know what they're, they're, I guess national food is it's very quite bland, I guess, in terms of like what European Food brings to the table of Italian foods and things like that.

33:36 Yeah. And she was, she paid such close attention to all the the French cooks and the Italian cooks and how they were doing everything over there that she was fascinated by how they they presented their foods and how it was all so lush. And yeah, so. She kept a diary every single day, pretty much every single day of her life, but in particular every single day when they were away on this honeymoon. Yeah. And she wrote down everything they ate, how much it cost. Yeah. And what they did and where they went and everything.

34:03 It's so, so detailed. You can see photos of certain pages that she's. She's allowed to. She has allowed to be released to the public. Yeah. It's fascinating. Oh, and she says that, you know, that's, and she decided that really in her life, if she could do looking at the buildings like that and, you know, and the foods and everything, if she could make a life for herself out of looking and doing those things for the rest of her life, she would lead an incredible life. She was. And she would never work a day in her life.

34:32 You know, she was willing to work as hard as she could to have that in her life. Yeah. She's fascinated. She's a really interesting human being. So they're on their honeymoon and she was a little bit religious. She doesn't say she was like, you know, all, all or nothing. But Andrew, Andy wasn't at all. And when they were in Italy, she decided to go to the Duomo and he didn't want to go with her. So she actually went there. And she said she had almost a bit of a transformative experience when she was there and the grandeur of it.

35:07 And I mean, I guess, you know, you'd read, read about it in books, You'd seen photos of it. And it really she became sort of almost overwhelmed. And the way she talks about it is really fascinating because she talks about it like it was a transformative day in her life to be in this place. And she ended up kissing a man like she wanted to, a random, she wanted to, I don't know, mark the occasion in some way or make it grand in some way or memorable or something. And so she decided to like Andrew.

35:39 Andy's back at the hotel, waiting for. Her my new husband. Yeah, and she's off passion, but she goes, oh, it didn't mean anything. No, it didn't mean anything. It was just a kiss. Didn't mean anything. Really, really unusual, yeah. Because she's. But then she says staunchly, I never cheated on Andrew. No, she doesn't see it as that at all. I mean I. Don't know. I mean a kiss. OK, a kiss is a kiss, but. But why would you want to seek that out? What was on your honeymoon? Please, I don't really understand.

36:07 Yeah, I don't get it. I really I couldn't even though she explained it and I could feel that she felt that. Like, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. She really? Felt the moment. Like there was nothing in her that you could say, you know, Like, I don't know, she was very staunch in her idea. No, she was, of course. That's how. Yeah. Why don't you accept that like? Yeah, she's, she's so bloody fascinating. Yeah. In 1967, she began working as a stockbroker because her father-in-law was a stockbroker. And she looked at what he did and went, Oh yeah, I reckon I could do that.

36:35 Well, he introduced her to some people and said she's a really intelligent woman. Take her undo wing like. And she she did good at it. Yeah, for a while. Yeah, she was really. They were very impressed with her. She was. I mean, she was probably, I think she was the only woman in the in that company that she was working for. Yeah, especially at that to that, you know, probably plenty of assistants and typists unfortunately being women. But but I was doing the stockbroking. No, like they weren't women doing that.

37:00 Yeah, and she was a mother by that stage too, because on the 27th of September in 1965, their daughter Alexis was born. Yes, Lexi, they call her. And yeah, so she's gone back to work a couple of years later as in a brand new career. Like, hats off to her. She was a bit of a trailblazer in that respect, wasn't? She she used to go to. Work in the most beautiful suits. She looked always immaculately presented. Yes. She didn't wear a lot of makeup, but she always looked lovely. Yeah, like really neat and tidy.

37:32 Always dressed beautifully. Simple but classy. Yeah, very classy for sure. Andrew founded a publishing house and served as CEO on several boards for other publishing houses. So that ended up becoming his bread and butter. Yeah, despite the fact that he was a lawyer by by trade. Yes. And the publishing house that he started was amazing. Like it grew and grew and grew and it was an incredibly successful. Company, It's one of the biggest in America. Yeah, yeah, she says so sorry, actually. And around this time, they bought a farmhouse in Connecticut.

38:08 Yeah, it was an old farmhouse. It was built in 1805, and it was trash. Like it was the worst house on the best St. So it was on Turkey Hill Rd. Yeah, we're sorry. Later on this farmhouse when it was renovated, everything was absolutely stunning and it became known as just Turkey Hill. Like so it was on Turkey Hill Rd. but this place just became Turkey Hill. It's just amazing what they did with it. It was Martha really did all of the interior design decoration. She was basically. She was in her heaven doing that.

38:42 That was really what she loved doing. And I mean. She's. Got that package, the renovating of that house going on a very young child and she's a stock broker and in the background of all of that she then begin, Oh well, let's go back a little bit. The stock broking she they hit a bit of a an issue that she did lose a bit of money and they did lose a lot of her clients lost a fair bit of money. Not her fault by the way the stock market goes. That was something that they purchased they thought was going to do well didn't, but she did take that pretty hard of how that had occurred.

39:12 So she did sort of step back from it and sort of want to get out, I think, and that was when she started her next venture with it was a model friend of hers, Norma Collier. They met modelling and they started their catering business by the name of the Uncatered Affair. Yeah. And I just love this business model. Yeah. They were very smart girls. Very. They had literally tapped into such a successful, you know, bit of market here. So it was that time of women, you know, doing that. They were, they were homemakers meant to be, you know, homemakers have everything perfect at home, perfectly perfect.

39:49 But they're also supposed to be out of the home working at the same time. So to juggle all of that is just it's impossible. So this is where these women would step in. And so they would still, these women would not have these lavish, you know, dinner parties that they would have for their family and friends and things. And so Martha and her friend would cater these events, but secretly, and so that the women could then present it as if they had done all the hard work, not the catering company. And make out as if, Oh yes, I've just been slaving around the kitchen all day and I still look amazing and yeah, and I've worked all day, but here you go.

40:22 Here's your three course meal that I've I've just prepared earlier and then some. It was unbelievable the lavishness of these things that they would present. And I mean, some of these dinner parties, they started out small, but grew and grew and grew. They ended up catering an event at the Guggenheim for like 70,000 no 7000. 7000 people you also, I mean the partnership didn't last all that long between the two of them because what Norma has said is that she was really happy doing the ten 20-30 people dinners, whereas Martha wasn't happy unless there was a unless there was 1000 guests at the party they were catering so.

40:59 They had different. Ideas, very different ideas of what they were doing, which I I thought back and go, why can't you do both? Yeah. Two arms of the two. Arms of the same business but apparently Norma walked in on Martha talking to Andrew saying you know I should be taking more money because I do more work, which possibly she was if she was wanting to run these thousand, you know, guest parties whereas Norma was saying well no, I want to do this 20 or 30 yeah, so maybe she was putting in more work but a partnership's a partnership and, you know take on the work you take on don't you Yeah, well.

41:31 That's it. Yeah, she it I I found. I mean, they're parting of ways. I don't think it was bad bad. Oh, I don't think it was amicable either though. Yeah, but I don't, I don't know it wasn't. Catastrophic or? Anything like that I guess. I mean, being in that friendship would have been pretty awkward. Yeah. Well, I think honestly, I mean, I think that obviously Norma didn't have the ambition that Martha had. I mean, I don't know if anyone would have the amount of ambition that Martha had. She'd wear anyone.

41:58 Yeah. Absolutely unequaled. Yeah, yeah, she's yeah. The business grew and grew and grew and it really then started to morph into into lots of. Well, yeah, other things. One of the guest at the party who knew Andrew and also Martha said to her one day what, you should have a cookbook. And at the time she responded, which I think very smart. Again, she's very intelligent. One thing she said was, well, I don't want Andrew's business publishing it. Yep, That would be nepotism. She really stepped away and didn't like that idea.

42:30 But also she's I'm not ready. She was like, yes, good. I've already probably already thought of that. Yeah, but I'm not ready yet. And so she didn't release her first book for another 12 months after that being suggested to her. But the first book she did release was called Entertaining. It's called entertaining. What she said when she was writing that was that she wanted it to not just be a cookbook. Yeah. She wanted it to be about the whole experience. So how to set the table nicely, how to do a floral arrangement, Yeah.

43:01 You know, different kinds of centrepieces and all of those kinds of things. And so. And she wanted also some anecdotes and stories that she'd written. So this really set the stage for what then became a really prolific, well, book writing career. Yeah, so 1982 she released that book. OK, so this day she just not long ago released her 100th book. Unbelievable. She pretty much released like more than one book. Well, more than one book a year. From now, she said, at the prime of it, her publisher expected more than one book a year.

43:32 Yeah, it was. It was an expectation. So she released books like crazy. Martha Stewart Hors d'oeuvres, you know. Martha Stewart Christmas Martha Stewart. Wreaths. Yes, Yeah. I mean, at some point, maybe scraping the bottom of the barrel, but she also said that she had so much to say that this is where it morphed into magazines for her and like monthly publications because she, I guess a cookbook or a book that you're writing can be quite limited. You've got probably got a limited number of pages you're allowed to keep to.

44:04 There'd be a format that you have to, you know, make sure you're kind of fitting into. You've got to keep your publisher happy. But she was like, well, no, I actually have got so many more things that I want to say. Like she was a Blogger before blogging was a. This is it and. So she needed a medium to do that. I'm going to start my own magazine. So Time magazine, Time, you know, the Time magazine publishing company took her on and started the Martha Stewart Living magazine. And she was, you know, you think somebody puts in somebody like Martha Stewart puts their name to something.

44:41 They'd be ghost writers. And look, there were a lot of people who contributed monthly to all of the magazines she ended up producing, but she was still at the forefront of all of it. She planned them. She wrote articles. She. She was on the front cover. She was pretty much every single. One, yeah, she she guided all of the content because she was an absolute control freak. Yep. Absolute. Just say it quietly, yeah? Andrew, her husband said. She was controlling and an absolute perfectionist. And she was.

45:13 Yeah. But that led to her success because look at where she was after all that. Absolutely. It was incredible. She obviously was at this time as well. She was starting to make more and more TV appearances. Her name was becoming a household name. Yeah. And all of her homewares and that kind of thing that, you know, she would show in her magazines. People wanted that. They looked at her life and they wanted what she had. Yeah. So they. She then ended up partnering with Kmart. This blew my mind when I heard about this.

45:47 So she blew she she did a deal with Kmart to sell. She did a lot of Manchester homewares and you know that, that sort of thing. Yeah. Now, Kmart's You know about a bargain basement type. Particularly in America. Especially in America and especially back then, yeah, it wasn't. Kmart wasn't what it is. Well, it's still not in America what it is here. Yeah. Like it's, yeah, it is very much low level. But she said she wanted everybody to be able to walk into a home and feel nice about the things that they had.

46:18 But she's always. Picked on a bit like she never actually bought the stuff or never. Like not that you have to buy it, but like, yeah, she wouldn't have. She didn't. Have stuff because the highest thread count that the sheets that she sold in Kmart was 250 should be 1000 thread count minimum on a bad day when all the other linens in the box yeah now just a few stats on the Kmart because I was really fascinated by the money because I'm like what else would have driven her to go down that path so.

46:48 Of course, money. In the US alone, 77 million shoppers shopped at Kmart every month and upon release of her Martha Stewart Living range to Kmart added $70 million to her bottom line. So profit $70 million annually? Yeah, just from putting her shit in Kmart. So do you know that there was one point where Kmart we're gonna sell their company, right? And she wanted to buy it. And, you know, her idea was was to buy Kmart and rebrand it Kmarta.

47:32 That's out of her own mouth. I love it. I'd shop at Kmarta. Yeah, I mean, stuff is beautiful. Oh, this is. It I actually do have a Martha Stewart photo frame. Oh yeah, I got it. I got given up for our wedding and I've got one of our wedding photos in it and it's very beautiful it. Came Martha for Beautiful, I reckon. Came Artha for the win. Yeah, she also in one of the interviews I was watching, she she's, she loves herself. Oh, yeah. She they were like, oh, tell us. Oh actually no, sorry, she did an interview.

48:04 This is heading more towards Snoop Dogg territory. Now, but she was doing. One of those late night shows with I think Colbert, maybe. Yeah. And she and Snoop were on there. I think it must have been during COVID because they were both remote and they were, they had to answer questions. It was like, how well do you know your bestie? And so they said, oh, what's what's your favorite drink? And Snoop Dogg wrote vodka for Martha, right? Martha wrote a Martha teeny or a Yeah, a Martha teeny. I'm like, you can't even have a fucking martini.

48:33 No, it has to be a martini. And then I Googled it and I'm like, did she make up a drink? But there was no recipe for a martini. It was just a martini. Well, Snoop Dogg knows the recipe, obviously.

48:46 I want one. Yeah, I think it's just some spice in that. So around this time as well, Martha discovered that Andy had been having multiple affairs. Now she her claim is that he was having affairs. She thinks throughout their whole marriage. He says he didn't and that he only had an affair after she had an affair, even though she said she never had an affair. But then she also says she did have a relationship with someone. That's not an affair. Just not an affair. It was different because she didn't care, whereas whereas Andy cared, he cared about his.

49:26 Girlfriend. So that's a very interesting take, isn't it? But she. Didn't care. She, she, she said. I only had an affair. He was a young, very attractive Irish man. I mean, I get that. Well, I do love an Irish accent. But it wasn't an affair because she didn't. Care about it. She didn't care about him. He just looked nice. Yeah. And it only happened once. I love and hate her all. At once, I know, I know. She's such an enigma. She's yeah. She's like, yeah, it's conf. How do you argue? We don't even.

49:58 Know. Well, I don't know, but she said Andrew, Andy really cared about the women he had affairs with and he would buy them things and and he also actually brought a couple of them into their house. Yeah. And then he had an affair with one of Martha's. So she was, this lady was Martha's florist, and then she lost her house. Her personal florist. Yeah, her personal florist. She had a floristry room in her house. Like this room was probably triple the size of my. No, in fact, probably the size of my kitchen.

50:32 And it was just. All just it was a giant through and all, like thousands of vases along the walls and. So your dream? Oh, it would be Oh. My God, I mean, there are probably a million things I'd want ahead of a floristry room or that I could use that space for. But like, this is the opulence. Yeah, you know, the nature. And she had her personal florist who would daily pick. Flowers. Pick flowers. And rotate the flowers within the house. And anyway, so she came upon a hard time, not quite sure what happened, but she lost her house and Andy and Martha had several guest cottages on their property.

51:09 Several guest cottages. For all guest cottages, I wouldn't mind a trot on a guest cottage from Martha. And Martha came home one day, I think she'd been away for business, and she came home and Andy was in bed with the florist in the guest house. Oh, oh, oh, that's bad, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So Needless to say, well, she she actually says she wouldn't have divorced him. No, no, no, but I feel like that was all around perception from other people because you know, like her whole brand was that she was homemaker, everything perfectly perfect.

51:46 You can't get divorced and not have your marriage work if you're perfectly perfect. True. That's why she didn't want to divorce him. Yeah, No, she and she did very. She fought really hard. She was like she wrote him letters after letter. After letters were in OH. My God. And the things she's like, why are we not just working this out? Why are we not? I don't think he wants to. Oh no. He he pushed for the divorce. Yeah, he was. Well, he was done. I think she was. I think she was awful to him. He says that he.

52:18 Says yeah, he he has said that. Probably he has said that she was really difficult to live with. Nothing he ever did was good enough. Well, she was a harder She had a business to run on him. Like on his back about something. Yeah. Apparently, no matter where they went or what they did, he never wore the right clothes. You know? He just couldn't do anything right and she was always just hyper, hyper critical of him. Yeah. And if you wanna get all the dirt on that stuff, there's the unauthorised biography that was released, yes, 1998.

52:49 It was called Just Desserts. I love that. And in that all the disgruntled ex employees and all that sort of stuff who saw all this stuff going down between the two of them, they all come out to play in that and. And they all have very similar accounts of what they saw like. It's not like no one's like, not one. So not one just random person who's a bit, you know, disgruntled around their employment or or lack thereof now or something. Yeah. There's many people who've come out and back stories and things that of how awful she was or is to people.

53:19 Yeah. Oh, still is. Yeah, to this day, But at this time in 1998 when that book was released, like it's, yeah, a lot of people. And so I can see this whole marriage situation from both sides. Yeah. I think he wanted out. And he was like, come on, like, I'll freaking have. I'll have an affair right in front of your face. And then maybe you'll like, let me go where And she was, well, no, this is the brand. You can't leave. But then the the what she thought was going to happen, or what she thought the fallout was going to be from the breakup of their marriage didn't.

53:49 Didn't because no one gave a shit because. We've all moved on like as a society, we've moved on from that. That's what, you know, you have to be married for this to be perfectly perfect. Yeah. So she. And it wasn't like at that stage, like Lexie was little she, you know, she was growing up by then too. So like, let the marriage go. I think they. Were married for 20 something years 25. Years. Oh, at least they didn't get They were separated in 1987, and they finally actually divorced in 1990. OK, Yeah, yeah.

54:16 So they they were married for a very long time. They were, yeah. Well, you know, these things must come to an end. But she did then start dating a man by the name of Charles Simonyi. Yes. Oh wow, isn't this an interesting little relationship? So her she actually says that she liked men who thought and did, but not men who had feelings, no. Which says a lot. Says a lot. She wants to be busy and she needs her man to be busy and she needs to be able to think, yeah. And be able to keep up with her and keep up with her.

54:53 Conversation. I don't know how anyone can keep up with her I. Don't know either. No. It'd be exhausting to be around. She's always got something on the go. Oh yeah, Well, I mean kind. Of a bit manic. Yeah, their relationship was interesting in that it wasn't really defined as such, but when they did break up, she did call it her second divorce. Yes, but The thing is it wasn't defined and she never sought the definition. But she obviously felt something that he like. He just never gave her what she wanted.

55:19 I. Don't know. I mean behind closed doors, who knows? But publicly it was never they would they? They would go everywhere, but they were never. Officially a couple. No, they they well, not publicly. Yeah, no, like it's but she'll she's even said like, oh, had I've had many men that I've just never spoken of. Yeah, like give us the list, Martha. I would love to know so this Charles Simonier, he was one of the engineers who developed Microsoft. Word and. Microsoft Excel. He was incredibly intelligent, and because of what he had a hand in creating, he was incredibly wealthy.

55:54 Like Martha was coming up for being really wealthy throughout this time because her magazines were taking off. TV show. TV show. She obviously had a Kmart brand deal and all of that sort of stuff, so she was doing very well for herself. Yeah, he was another level. He had his own, like owned his own private jet. Yes, it was another level of filthy wealth. Like filthy much filthy wealth, yes. Yeah, so, but their, their relationship was pretty bloody complicated, I think. And with Martha, I don't know.

56:28 I don't know what level you would have a connection with her on, to be honest. It's, she was very much about her and about what she thought and about what she wanted. And yeah. So in December of 2001, she, well, she had a friend and she met this friend. Oh, hang on. Just, sorry, go back one little step. Yeah, because it was in 1997 that the that her company. So she heard she had a Margaret Stewart Living. Omni Media. Stewart. Yep, so that that whole company became went public. Oh yes, on the Stock Exchange.

57:02 So in 1997, which that when it did that, that's when she clicked over as being the first ever made self-made female billionaire in, in the, in the US. So that's huge. I mean, she's bigger than anything. She's absolute powerhouse. And that's so that's beyond, that's past her, you know, her divorce from her husband. She's this business has continued on. And you know, as we said, didn't it didn't even miss a beat with all that. As much as she thought it was going to destroy her, it didn't. And yeah, went on to strength and strength.

57:32 So she her company was absolutely flying at this point. So late 90s, going into the 2000s, she was everywhere, Everywhere, absolutely every, I mean, I mean publicly in terms of like, you know, the every list of like any celebrities and things. She was there. Any party, she was there. Yeah, if, if no company was, you know, catering or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was on the board of the of the New York Stock Exchange, Yes. And she was on the board of Revlon as well at this time. So very prestigious position, yes.

58:02 And you know, that just goes to show the caliber of her business prowess. She she is an incredible businesswoman, yes, very astute, very switched on. I mean, she even the way she talks about her life at that time when her, her company went public, she, she did the IPO herself. She she was just incredible. She learned she's just. Amazing and and changed over these generations like these decades that she's been doing this. Is there anything? She can't do. Oh no. Because you know, what she was talking about recently was because she's got this so much media of her out, like the magazines, the TV shows, everything, right?

58:44 So she's talking about now like she wants to do AI, Martha AI, which I'm like, yeah, you imagine what you could put into into Martha AI and come up with because that thinking, I mean, well, I mean, you could cook a main roast and get a great recipe and like whatever you want out of that thing. There's the the amount of info information that Martha Stewart has put out for the world. Martha AI she. Can be her own little bot. Bot. Yeah. Oh yeah. She, she's just, she's amazing. She's and she's, she's working on the tech like she's on in on it.

59:15 Oh, at 80, whatever years of age, yeah, she just blows my mind. Yeah. So she's obviously, I mean, the fact that she was a stockbroker, she's always had shares traded shares. That's been part of her portfolio, her private portfolio. And you know, she enlisted the the services of a man by the name of Peter Bakanovic. Bakanovic, yeah. And he was her stockbroker, her personal stockbroker. And she wanted to buy some shares for Mklone so. This was bad. You know how she met the guy for Mklone though? Sam Waxall.

59:56 Yeah. How? Oh. So. Lexie was dating Sam. Oh, that's right. Oh. Yes, that's right. I know. I knew this. OK. He's so old. Oh so so this I'm talking they're dating like Lexie 24 and he was 42 or something like that. I feel like it wasn't. It could have been bigger gap he. Might have been 40. 2 anyway, anyway, it was a big gap. He she was closer in age to his daughters, yes, than than him anyway, like it was a big age gap. So they're dating right? And and obviously she then introduces her mum because so at this point Lexie is out about social scene.

1:00:31 She is social eating a bit right kind of stuff in the and she's done very intelligent being to you know, it was at university etcetera. But in those circles she was travelling in some high level wealthy, wealthy families, etcetera. Yeah, yeah. Met Sam Waxall and was dating him. They broke up, but Martha and Sam still hung out a lot. Besties Do besties sleep together? Well, not in our case. Well. Been meaning to, Sir. Yeah, their relationship's really interesting. Yeah, they were photographed together.

1:01:09 A. Lot They've never admitted to having a relationship. Let's just put it out publicly, but the speculation of that relationship. In that in that book you were referring to before the. Just desserts, yes. Just desserts, they talk about that. And he was there all the time. She was, Yeah. I mean, they were. They were. Yeah. Well. Totally. So, yeah, that's how they met and they obviously he was in, had his own company and that was very interesting to her, I bet. But there are other things that she was interested in, too.

1:01:41 Yeah. I mean, his, his company at the time was successful in that they were developing a drug called, so they were a biotech company. It's called inclone, IMCLONE. Yeah, Now we're developing a drug, drug called Erbetux, which was a cancer treatment drug, Martha says. In one of the documentaries I was watching, she's like, it was it's going to be a cure for cancer. Yeah, that's what they believed. That's where they thought it was going. Yeah. And so it was obviously submitted after, I mean, this was years in the making, but they submitted it to the FDA for approval.

1:02:13 Yeah. And a couple of days before it was made public that the FDA approval wasn't going ahead, Martha sold all of her shares. Yes, she did now. She had about 1/4 of $1,000,000 worth of shares at the time. They were worth about 50 grand more than what she'd bought them for, so she was sitting at a profit of about 5050 something, $1000. Basically, selling her shares meant she, when she did, she managed to avoid a loss of $45,673. Yeah. So nothing, which I mean for a billionaire, which she is at this point.

1:02:52 Yeah, that's literally coins in a in a couch. It's it's chump change that is so in your that's your back pocket money like it's nothing. No, she'd probably spend that on flowers in a month. Yeah, she held 3928 shares in the company and yeah, so selling them all at that point saved her four thousand 45,673 dollars. So just keep that in mind. Just keep that in mind. Yeah. So the FDA, this is in December of 2001, the FDA announces that the Urbatux denial and you know, the stock obviously went down drastically because everybody was pitting their hopes on this one drug that the company was that the company was selling.

1:03:44 So then when the I, I guess I think the FBI was sort of looking into it because they noticed. So what they noticed in the lead up to this announcement was there was a huge amount of trading on the in clone stock. Yeah. And when they say trading, it was a lot of a lot of people were selling. So the FBI actually, and the the US Securities Exchange, they were all looking into what had happened in those preceding days. Yeah. And what they found was there was a list of, I think it was like 17 people.

1:04:16 It ended up, I think by the time they went to court it was. Two or three, Yeah. I think it was really only Sam and Harlan, his brother. Yeah. And then there was. A Martha then? So it was 3 was it? Yeah, well, that, yeah, but she was, she was convicted of something separate to that, though. Yeah, but they will look the. Real, they looked at to her. Yeah, because she'd sold her shares two days before. Yeah, this announcement was made. Yeah, you know to the to the profit of 50 grand like. Well, not profit, but she didn't lose that.

1:04:44 She stopped. No, it was to the profit. She bought them for 250,000, sold it for 300,000. No, because she because when she so she bought them at $75 a share or they got went up to $75 a share and she sold them at $63 a share. Oh. OK, so I think she she'd have a loss, but she could have lost if she'd sold a date, like when, if she'd waited, if she'd sold them with everyone else. Yeah. Like which it dropped 16% the following day. Yeah. If she'd sold them then when she found out. Oh, it's not being FDA approved.

1:05:15 Oh, now we'll sell. She would have lost $45,000. Forty. Yeah. Yeah. So it was dropping, but hadn't dropped completely. Yeah. Right. But the end of that day on the 27th of December, they dropped to $60.00, which is what they talk about in terms of like that. She she said that her and Peter had a deal that if it dropped to 6060 dollars a share then they'd sell. But did they that conversation or not? Yeah, Did you? Yeah, it's awesome. Because it had dropped to $60.00 previously and they hadn't sold exactly.

1:05:47 So as much as it had been $75 building up to this, it had previously to this fluctuated around that $60.00 mark. Shares do as they do, yes. So yeah. So the US Attorney's office contacted Martha's attorneys to be interviewed about this because they obviously noted that she was one of the people who sold their shares in those preceding days. Yeah. Her attorneys advised her to answer truthfully. And if she didn't remember something to say, to say either I do not remember or I do not recall. Yeah, and so, well, this is where things get a little tetchy.

1:06:24 Yeah, what frustrated them? Very much so because she they would ask her questions that they knew the answer to and she would say I do not recall, I don't, I don't remember. And what they felt like she was obstructing the course of justice. Yeah. Yeah. So in June of 2002, we find out that, like, as in we as the public find out that Martha's being investigated for this. And my God, does the shit hit the fan immediately. So Martha Stewart, America's golden woman everywhere. She's everywhere. Everyone loves her.

1:07:05 She's she's the woman that so many American and international women want to be. Yeah, it's somebody we aspire to but could never achieve because, I mean, seriously. God no, don't have time. She the media turn on her Yeah in an instant she's labeled as a liar, a cheat, messy master. Yes, I love it And and they're like they they even, you know, poke fun at her appearance. They, they, they say she's, you know, look how terrible she looks now she's put on 250 lbs. I'm like, whoa, she hasn't doubled her weight overnight.

1:07:42 Like God, it's just, it's absolutely. Mental absolutely love one of the TV shows that she got absolutely came for afterwards too. So this is fairly early days and all this that she's been looked at and she's still doing her normal stuff that she's been booked for to go in and do this show to make. She's making this salad and this woman's interviewing. She had been told prior to the this going look, they're gonna bring it up. You need to be prepared that they're gonna ask you questions about, you know what's.

1:08:06 Going on everywhere. Everywhere, of course they're gonna ask you. So she had been told this by her people to be prepared. She's busily making her salad and answering some questions. And but the, the interviewer, she kept really pushing on this stuff about what was going on with the FBI and who she and why she's being investigated and, and she's like, she got so irritated that she's like, I just want to focus on my salad. I just wanna make my salad. But look, in that interview, though, I can understand it because I felt like her, her response when that interviewer first asked her.

1:08:38 Yeah, was good. She said. I can't really talk about it. It's still being investigated. Yeah, I'm hoping it'll all be cleared up. You'll sort it out. Big, big misunderstanding. But I can't really talk about specific details. It's completely. Fair. Completely fair, but she's and then this one should keep pushing her and she's like I just want to make my decision, want to make my soul and then everyone. Then that became the headline everywhere. Didn't all. The late night shows all grabbed that one and used it.

1:09:01 I loved it. And that really did like, it was an absolute turning point for her. Yeah, yeah, I find the next bit really friggin uncomfortable. Yeah. So this is, I'm talking about the US District Attorney Jim Comedy. He comes and does a press conference. So he, they're the ones who have now decided to charge. Yeah, Martha, in relation to, well, at the time they thought it would be an insider trading charge. And then they were talking about obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI and the SEC. It was all a bit even he wasn't fully clear, to be honest, in that first, in that first media press conference thing.

1:09:49 Yeah. He says he's like lying to the FBI is a very serious offence. And. And someone, one of the journalists asked him, if it wasn't Martha, would you be doing this? And he said, well, absolutely, it's not because it's Martha that we're pursuing this. It's because she's done wrong. Now how many fucking people have lied to the FBI who don't then don't have a criminal charge brought against? Them. Yeah, yeah. You know, she was just, I mean, I get it, she was probably being obstructive in not answering questions, but she had every right to not answer those questions.

1:10:19 Yeah, that's right, I would have thought. Well, that that's not one of the things that, well, no, they did bring that charge against her, so maybe. She did because, well, they do question. So the whole thing that went down, though, is that there was Peter. Oh, God. I can't guess. What's his surname? Bakanovich. Yeah. So Peter Bakanovich. And then his assistant, Douglas Fanuel. So the two of them basically, they couldn't really get their story straight. Yeah. So and look, Douglas did come out. He open honest.

1:10:50 He was the the guy who did it all. He was just following instructions According to him. And so he was very honest with the FBI. Yeah. So whereas Peter and Martha had this whole line of, you know, well, I told, you know, Peter that we would, you know, sell out the stock if it hit $60.00, which then, you know, Douglas is coming out going. And I was never told that. I was just told directed by Peter to sell the stock because it had it would they'd been told it wasn't wasn't going to get FDA approved.

1:11:17 So sell the stock. So he just, he did what he said. So therefore they've got her on the fact that she's lying because like he specifically says that there was no conversation, no conversation of that. The one that really gets so though in the court is her best friend. This. Is so freaking sad. Is really Mariana Pasternak? Yeah. So whilst this is going on, so while the whole this whole situation of whether it's going to get FDA approval and everything is going on, it's December 27th and they are on holidays on a yacht somewhere, you know, having their time.

1:11:52 First calls that they took was they were on a private. So they were on Martha's. I mean, she didn't own a private. In fact, I could think it was actually her boyfriend. What's his name? Microsoft guy? Sorry, what's his name? Yeah, Charles. Yes, they were on his private jet and they were making their way down to Mexico. Yes. And they had to stop to refuel, I think in Arizona or something like that. And while she was on the ground in Arizona, she decided to call because she said, you know, I was the CEO of a big company.

1:12:21 I had to check in all the time, even when I was on holidays. And Mariana was there when she checked in. And part of this check in was, according to Mariana, a phone call with Peter Bakanovic. And she says that Martha said in that phone call after that phone. Call with him. Isn't it nice to have brokers who tell you those things? Yeah. And that is what she testified in court. Now those do want friends no more. Oh no, she said. Martha actually said sorry. Mariana actually says that she saw Martha's eyes change and she knew in court and she knew that that's it, their friends are done forever.

1:13:02 Well, yeah, absolutely. You've really fucking fucked her over. Because then she later recants. Are you? But I'm not joking. Years and years and years later, she says she admitted to say that she wasn't entirely sure if that's what she heard or whether that's just what she was thinking in the moment. This is well after she'd gone to prison and been released from prison. So OK, I don't know what's worse in this, but is she saying that because she now knows that piss Martha off because that's so bullshit, or has she realized that Oh no, I didn't, that really didn't get said.

1:13:38 I don't. What a Dick. What a Dick. Why would you come out and publicly say? Sorry, but I would lie for you. Yeah, I'd lie for you. Seriously. Seriously, it's just, it's not OK. No, that's not a bestie. It's not a bestie. I mean, look what what Martha said actually, and this is completely fair, she said. I don't expect people to lie in court. And it's not an expectation. If you're subpoenaed and you have to testify, you know your best friend shouldn't expect you to purge yourself. But how would the how would the FBI or whoever's investigating this know to ask the question for you to give that information exactly?

1:14:16 Like you're only lying if they've asked that question. That's right. You've just like, that's the reason for the information. Yeah. You don't answer anything you haven't been asked. We're going to ask you this in court now. You. Yeah. Yeah, this is now your testimony. Yeah, and she maybe couldn't back down from it. I don't know. I don't know. The answer is always I don't remember, I don't know, I don't recall. No, I don't recall. Yep. I got all for $45,000 anyway. Douglas Fanuel though, she describes like he came out and like absolutely berated Martha after Yes because he hated her.

1:14:52 Absolutely hated. He was awful to. Her I've never been treated more rudely by a stranger on the phone because he he didn't really know her, he didn't have the regular contact, he was the. Underling in this situation, Peter was the person that was, you know, oh, he was the intelligent stockbroker. Yeah, Douglas was the assistant, you know, kind of thing that he got treated that way and which is awful. Yeah. No one deserves to get treated like that. He says she actually hung up on me and had the nerve to mention layoffs in her anger.

1:15:16 Like basically saying you're gonna get fired if you do this or say this. I think you're all going to jail, yeah. Well, he actually did get a fine Daniel. He did? Yep. $2000, I think it was something like that. Yeah, Peter. And he was just following instructions on from his. Employer, but then he also then struggled to find another job. Yeah, well. So it was, it was a very impactful situation for a very young aspiring stockbroker. For sure. So with all this though, too, Martha's own company obviously had impact as well, and that was part of what the charges ended up being.

1:15:51 Yeah, where that she was basically not lying, I guess is part of it, but you know, falsely, you know, presenting things to her own stock shareholders. Yeah. So she did lose like 145 million in her shares of her of her company. Yeah. So it did impact, I mean, but out of a billion dollar company, it's still a bit of a drop in the ocean still, I guess. So not a hell of a lot. So yeah, there was the ultimate there was the two charges of the lying to the FBI and then the lying and falsifying things for her stock, her, her shareholders.

1:16:23 So the, the official things were providing a false statement and obstruction of justice. The the clincher that they got her on though for the lying part and the obstruction of justice. I guess this kind of pertains to both. But she she actually said to the FBI, she did not recall being informed that the Waxhaws were selling their in clone in clone stock. So you don't remember having a conversation about whether like you would remember if you didn't have it, and you'd remember if you. Did have it but.

1:16:53 You can't say. I don't recall. No. You either had it or you didn't. And I think that's really kind of what they got. Her on, got her on. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. She was sentenced to five months in. Well, she calls it camp like. She didn't call it camp. She called it camp, did she? Yeah. And if and if she didn't call it camp instead of jail, she called it Yale. Yale, I thought. I thought the media named it Cupcake Camp or. Something is called that. That's what they call it. Like as in the people who who live there, like, you know, the the.

1:17:26 Inmates. They call it Camp Cupcake because it is like a it's, it's limited in security prison. And so it's a bit of a walk in the park. A federal prison, still a federal prison. So, yeah. But she would refer to it as when I was at camp like, rather than saying like when I was in prison. So funny. Yeah, yeah, because you wouldn't wanna, I mean everybody for. Everybody. No Yale, Martha, no Yale. Sorry, Yale. Yale, Martha. Jeez, man. I just love that. But. She did a lot there when she was there. She absolutely she started programs, she taught them how she taught a lot of the women how to garden and tend to.

1:17:58 I mean, they had not a lot of resources, much to Martha's absolute disgust. They didn't even have, they didn't even have fertilizer for the garden. But she helped set up a gardening program. She helped to teach them to cook and plan parties and meals and do things to imagine Martha Stewart prison. Oh, that's a good idea for a That's a really good idea for a magazine. Absolutely. Oh book, Come on. Book Oh, why not go all out? Go. All out, yeah. So she, you know, she, I think she did her best in the five months she was then was it another five months at home?

1:18:35 Yeah, under house arrest. Under house arrest with a ankle bracelet on. Yeah, she loved that thing. She'd flash it, flash it to the media as they would take photos of her. So yeah, you know, she kind of played along with. It I guess she did by that point. I think she was pretty comfortable with it all that that's what was going on. I think you know what she so I don't remember when she was about to go to prison. There was one interview where she said, you know, it'll be fine. That's fine. Many people, many good people have been to to prison.

1:19:02 Look at Nelson Mandela. Hey, Martha.

1:19:11 She did say that the food was atrocious. There was nothing nutritious to eat. No, nothing. That all just tasted so bland. And this is the other one. Oh yeah, go. The camp is like an old fashioned college campus, just without freedom. Oh.

1:19:29 She's she's gold, that woman is. Gold. Oh God. So in 2004 though, the biggest selling Halloween costume in the American in America was a Martha Stewart costume of her in like the in like. A. Orange jumpsuit. Oh I love. It oh, that's so good. See, she still had influence. Oh, this is it. And look, when she was released, I mean, none of her companies really hit. They went jumping, jumping off it, you know, again, they took off and came back. It wasn't like. They're still going to this day. They're all still going to this day.

1:19:59 Oh, yeah. Because she's a convicted felon, though, she can no longer sit on the board of a company, so she's no longer the CEO of any of her. Companies or their subsidiaries, Yeah. But she certainly still has involvement day-to-day. And as you said, she's, you know, well into her. Well, she's in her 80s now, still has daily input into everything that goes on. I mean, if something's going out under your name, I I kind of get wanting to have full control. But for sure she has the wherewithal to keep it all going.

1:20:28 I just don't even know. Well, I mean, not it, you know, age of 81 and doing a swimsuit. Sports Illustrated edition. Wow on the cover. Wasn't cheap, but fucking gorgeous. That unbelievable she looks. Amazing. Like, does that just make everybody else at that age feel like shit? But then she. May feel like shit, yeah, but. Then she's been doing that her whole life. Like, you know, nothing that anyone could do would come near to what she did. Even I, I remember in one of the documentaries I watched, she was arranging strawberries in a basket and even that looked amazing.

1:21:00 I'm like. I couldn't do that. No, I mean, God, I'd make that look shit. I wear. I could definitely make that look shit. Yeah. Yeah. And she just touched. It and it touched. Yeah. Go. She was. She was incredible. Oh. Absolutely incredible. Just before she went into prison, actually, the I think this is in the same interview that you were just referring to before. Yeah, she said, they said to her, how do you prepare to go into prison? And she goes, I don't know, you go to the dentist, you go to the gynecologist, you get your body and mind in the best shape.

1:21:29 And the interview was like, oh, OK. And she's like, oh, that. I don't want to talk about it anymore. Move on. Well, the Barbara Walters interview, too, where, like where She said to her, you know, what are you preparing, you know, for jail and things and, you know, and what about strip searches? And Martha went, oh, I think you should educate yourself. Yeah, there won't be strip searches. And then Barbara Walters went, you might want to look into that because I believe. And then she says, she says in one of her diary entries, which has been since been released, she said when she walked into prison, she in her diary.

1:22:02 So she went into prison on Friday the 8th of October in 2004. And in her diary, she wrote diary, sorry, she wrote pearls OK, no contacts. So she was allowed to wear her pearls in pearls. OK at Yale squat arms out cough. She had to be stripped to naked squat squat cough. When she was in prison, her. Boy was like a dog. Oh, Martha. Her boyfriend Charles did not contact her throughout her trial or when she was in prison. She wrote him letters and he never responded until one day he did contact her and let her know that he was actually no sorry.

1:22:52 This was after she'd been released from prison. When she was released from prison, he did send his private jet to get her back home. Yes, we'll talk about that. Yeah, OK. We'll talk about that in a second. Yep. They were then overseas on a holiday. I'm guessing Martha probably just needed a bit of a break once she was out of of house arrest and they were in bed together in a hotel in Paris. I think she said. And he basically rolled over to her and said, well, I'm getting married and her parents don't ever want me to see you again.

1:23:19 And that was it. He's she's never seen him again. Oh my God. But he didn't even, she didn't even know he had somebody who was so serious with that he was about to marry like. 1. Relationship. They were together for 15 years, according to Martha. Yeah, yeah, as you, you've referred to this before. She said it was her second divorce. Yeah, she called that her second divorce like. Crazy. Yeah, Yeah. Inside. Tell me about the plane. So the plane she so yeah, he did collect her and had the private plane like take bring her home and she gets off the plane and what is she wearing?

1:23:48 Oh yes. The poncho. The poncho which? One of her very close friends, Tinder, I went, what the fuck are you wearing? And she's like, isn't it amazing? It's just gorgeous. So it turns out her poncho that she was wearing was made by one of her fellow inmates and who had learned how to, you know, crochet whilst they were together. And she made her this poncho to leave in and she wore it. She, you know, fully embraced this, you know, of what this person had. Because I mean, I think this is where I go.

1:24:15 I love her and I hate her. I know I. Love it. She like really helped this woman, you know, who had nothing she'd obviously, you know, done something in her life that had put her in that position and and Martha helped her out and taught her a skill and because her one of her big sayings is learn something new everyday. And that was we're playing while she was in prison too, that she would learn something new everyday and she was helping others learn something new. Amazing. Wow, great use of an. Hour.

1:24:37 Yep, but that poncho was so incredibly popular. The yarn company that got hold of the patent for it and put it on their website and sold it as the Martha poncho as she exited the plane. It was the most downloaded pattern that I had ever had on the in the entire history. I really hope that inmate got some. Royalties or something? I hope so. I I did couldn't find any more about it in terms of that like. I'd hope Martha would do that. Would she though? This is the thing, I don't know if there's a penny to make.

1:25:10 Addiction. I don't know. It's so bizarre. She is, She is. In April of 2019, she. Oh, actually, this is getting a little bit ahead. Should we talk? I think now's the time that we need to talk about Martha. It is done, Snoop. The most unlikely pairing of people probably to ever exist. I love this pairing. They are the greatest besties. I think it's awesome. Snoop Dog and Martha. Stewart How did they meet? Oh my God, it is just. No. Do you know how they met? Yeah, yeah, they so I mean it's it's are we talking about the?

1:25:53 The Bieber roast. Yeah, the roast. Oh this is actually so funny. Have you seen the Bieber Roast? It is actually amazing so if you. Have not seen it, Google it. The shit that comes out of that woman's mouth is gold. It is so good, it's. Really good. I love how she explains to make a Shiv. Yeah. She's like, I got, I've got the end of my comb and yeah, anyway, it's really good. So she but she like hangs shit on everyone. She she said when they asked her to do the roast, she didn't realise that she'd be roasted too.

1:26:25 So she was the butt of many a joke that night, but she took it all in her stride. She did, you know, she didn't care. She laughed along with it, It was great. But she was sitting next to Snoop Dogg that night. But, well, so she said. For two days straight, they rehearsed on them on the first day, so she sat with him that day as well and then followed the two days for the second day. Then for the actual filming, obviously again sitting next to him, she goes well. Two days of taking in second hand smoke from his marijuana smoking.

1:26:49 I was so sky. Apparently he just smokes blunts. All day long. On a on a day when he's doing something like that, he can smoke up to 25 pints a day. Well, it. Probably takes that much for it to actually hit the side like. An alcoholic, it must be like you just need more and more to have an effect. But not for Martha, No. Although Martha does very she's she holds. Herself. Together. Oh, she absolutely does. But she's absolutely adamant that she has never smoked pot. No, just second hand. Second hand, maybe a gummy here and there.

1:27:23 She would totally do gummies. Oh, for sure. Yeah, well, she has her own company. Now, yeah, that's true. That's true. Oh, God, yeah. I mean, what? Doesn't she have a company? Doing totally. Seriously. But anyway, so they became really good friends and in a really short amount of time, and they spent a huge, they realized that. They had so much in common. I know it's so very funny. It's just so. Unlikely. I love teaching people things. And because I've always loved Snoop, I think he's cooking great.

1:27:51 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he loves, well, cooking. Brownies, mainly. Yeah. Green Brownies. Of course, I think in one of the cooking shows they did together, that was the first recipe. Yeah, that was the first one they did was sow brownies. Yep, yeah, I do love me a bit of Snoop. It's just good. He's just he. I want to say he's wholesome like contradiction that he's not, but he. Knows, but I get, I do get what you're saying. Yeah. He's, he's good people. He is. Yeah. Yeah. I just having like star skin Hutch.

1:28:22 Yeah, another great movie. Go check that one out. Yeah, he does that so good. He's so, he is so good. He is so good and he just kind of, I mean, I guess if you're that stoned all the time, you're just rolling, going with the flow and really easygoing. And I think that would probably suit Martha's personality to attain they just. Well, yeah, they just. Hit it. Off they go. They go everywhere together. They traveled together. They went to the MTV Music Awards together. They've been all around the world doing all different things for both of their careers.

1:28:52 They've started businesses together. Yeah, they, they're really in each other's lives. And this has been going on since what, 2015 I think? Yeah. Something like that. So what do we talk 10 years now? And just. Fully ingrained in each other's lives. Yeah, yeah, to. This day. And look, Martha's advice kept Justin Bieber out of jail, too. So that's. True, Justin would have done as well as Martha in prison. Let's face. It. Oh God, no. It's very pretty. Arrived in the. Same way. No, I don't think so.

1:29:24 I think she. Wouldn't be sitting in the corner crocheting with people. No, and also Martha's a bit of an alpha dog at the best of. Times. Oh, Can you imagine? She would definitely have established dominance very quickly. Yeah, for sure. Most important thing when you go to prison? Absolutely. I still have my kids all the time. We've. Established dominance early. There's only one of one of your kids. Needs only one that I worry about. We both know which one for both of us really don't. Now I want to know what you think of Martha's like conviction and sentencing.

1:29:59 Yeah, right. Look, I do think they went after her and wanted like, someone to be held accountable for that and something, something very public. Yeah. I don't know that she it needed to be that, but I mean, she did the wrong thing. But as we said, for 45 grand out of billions of dollars that she's worth, I think there was other things they could have been spending their time, you know? For sure. Looking at so I don't really think that look as much as I kind of love what it brought to our US versus as a society and what it's brought to us afterwards.

1:30:29 How she and the the way she has come out of it, the other side is incredible. I think it changed her as a person. She says that. Because I will, I look at it from her relationship with her daughter. Yep. So it was like her relationship with her daughter is very interesting, fairly like it's it's never been great in the past. Whereas I think she's because Martha's softened through going to prison, which is not too many people could say that that's. Generally has the opposite. Yeah that I think it's actually build a better relationship with her daughter because they she can have they can have fun about herself yeah and so therefore I think it's embraced her daughter more yeah because have you watched any of her daughter's stuff that she's done I. Have her daughter.

1:31:09 Her daughter is She is a. What's the word? She is a a shocked entity unto herself. Like, you know, I mean, she's obviously grown up in the shadows of her mum, but she's a very interesting character. Yeah, yeah, she. Looks a lot like Martha. She definitely looks like Martha and she's like stunning, you know, she's. But she's she's. They've been described as the Howard, the female Howard Stern. Yeah, in the work that she does, she's done some like radio shows and TV shows and you can YouTube them and look at her stuff.

1:31:44 And I love the ones that she's done with Martha in terms of she does a series called Whatever Martha with Alexis and Jennifer, which is her Co host and they're pretty hilarious. They take the piss out of old episodes of Martha Stewart Living, which is just it was one I was watching where the two of the where she's making s'mores and they were like, oh, smalls, Yum. She just, you know, show us how to make the smalls. No, she shows to them how to whittle the stick to put the marshmallow on and like it's just.

1:32:12 Like. They're like, what the hell is she doing now? Like, you know. Yeah. And it's just gorgeous the way that like, Alexis can take the piss out of her mum. And and, you know, there is a couple of episodes where Martha joins in on this too, like, and so she can take the piss out of herself. Yeah, it's it's good. But I think in the past she could have done that. So yeah, I mean, I think it's, I think it's been good for her. I don't know whether it needed to happen. I don't think so. I think I read somewhere that she paid the bitch tax and I think.

1:32:43 I think that's. Fair. I think she was being obstructive for the sake of being obstructive in some ways. I don't think she know. I mean, whether she knew or didn't know to the financial benefit, but the financial benefit to her, whether she did it or didn't do it would have made zero difference to her life. Yeah. So I find that kind of a bit like, why would she get even care? Why would she risk? It yeah, I know. I think, I think in stupidity, like she's done the whole like, Oh yeah, offload it then if that's what's gonna happen, sell it.

1:33:12 Thought about the consequences. Actual consequences of that thinking like I. Also don't think that you know anyone else who had have come up against this would never it would never have gone to court. They've asked federal prosecutors you know subsequently and they've given Martha's case to them de identified to young and up and coming USDA's who don't really know a huge amount about this. Yeah. Not one of them has said that they would prosecute her. No, there's nothing there to prosecute nothing there.

1:33:40 It's not worth their time. I I should have she went spending time because she's Martha Stewart and they could make AI don't know Yeah a mockery out of her. I don't know I I think it's I think it's so unfair Yeah. But then, as you said, it really did change her life and it makes her life in a lot of ways. So, so much so that she ended up having to sell her media empire because she couldn't, as we said before, couldn't be the CEO. She could no longer run things the way that she wanted to. So she made the decision to sell in 2019.

1:34:08 Yeah, she sold it for 175,000,000, which was a lot less than what it. Was worth doing it originally. Exactly I. Mean, to this day I think she's worth about 400 mil. Yeah. So I mean. More I think, but but still like, you know, at one point she was a. A billionaire. So yeah, she's definitely less than she was. Yeah, but I mean I'd I'd take 400 mil. Yeah, I would. I'll look. I wouldn't. Sneeze at it. One of my all time favorite quotes of hers though is that if you want to be happy for a year, get married.

1:34:40 If you want to be happy for a decade, get a dog. If you want to be happy for a lifetime, plant a garden. Not. Not you, no. God, I would not. Be happy you take that advice. No, no, but I just love it. It wouldn't be for a year. Get married. That's only going to last for a year. That happiness. She's not really. It's I know. I more I like listen to her. I'm like, hmm, there's something in that. Yeah, but the garden thing, Oh God, I could murder that. Yeah, maybe if you wanted to be happy. For how long does a plant last without being cared for?

1:35:11 A couple of days in my house. I bought 2 plants on the weekend by the way. Oh my God. Oh, I'm gonna have to come over. Yeah, Oh, you are. Because one of them have to report. Oh my. God. Not yet. Apparently I'll come and have a look. You're gonna have to. All right, well, what have we? The other thing I just want to say is jump on her Instagram. Oh. She loves to post the first trap. Oh, and perhaps galore, but also like a fucking amazing contract. She's all over it. The outfit of the day. Yeah, and TikTok too.

1:35:44 She's all over that, too. Outfit of the day on TikTok. Yeah, she has some amazing. Clothes. She's in her 80s, she she could pass for a late 60, early 70s Oh. 50s Oh, I don't think I'm going to get. Her eyes she needs like but but still, she's doing very, very well for herself. Bloody oath. Yeah. Yeah, go, Martha. Lover. Hater. I might need to get some of this CDB gummy surrogate. Yep. Yep. Good on you Martha. Love it. What a great episode for episode 50. I know we've had fun. Yeah, it's been good.

1:36:24 It's been a nice light one, which is exactly what we wanted. Yeah, very. Good. Yep, let us know what you think. I'd love to know what everyone else thinks of Martha Stewart. And for those that like, at what age bracket does Martha drop off being known? Like I wonder if I asked my 2324 year old cousin, yeah, do you know who Martha Stewart is? Like I'll have to ask her and see. Whether she she would, because Snoop Dogg. Snoop. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe because of Snoop. Because, well, that was one of the things they both say.

1:36:59 Snoop's introduced a whole new audience to Martha, and then vice versa. Yeah. So people who would never have followed Snoop before now do. Yeah. And people who would never have followed Martha before now do. Martha cooking tips. Yeah, those brownies. So it's a, it's a really mutually beneficial friendship. Absolutely. Love that femme. Besties, yeah. All right. Now next week we are covering the Susan Powell case. So we're going back. We, we've, we're up here. We're going back down. Right down to that one where it involves children and yeah.

1:37:33 Yeah, into a really tough one. Oh, yeah. So please join us again next week. Thank you to everybody for joining us for our 50th episode. Go us. Yay, go in. Yay, all right. Stay curious, crying besties. Bye. Come with us with that 50 times. Now yay. Well, bye, bye.