Episode 48 - Schapelle Corby

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties to another episode. Meg, how are you today? Oh, we're just saying we're here, we're surviving. I think every day is another struggle. Thriving. No, no, not at the moment. Surviving. Surviving, yeah. And that's always. Surviving with flair, yeah. Yeah, that's that's probably it you. Know that actually reminds me when I was in high school I did a cooking class so one of my electives in I feel like it was probably year 9 or something and it was called the elective was called cooking with flair but we made.

0:44 Flairs, I said. Like setting them off? But we made things like it was so basic bitch cooking. Like it wasn't even. There was nothing with flair. I think the the most the craziest thing we made was like a gingerbread house at Christmas time. Oh, which was cool. That was cool. That was really fancy. We did like the stained glass windows with the boiled. Bodies in there, kids, don't you? You make that stuff. You're into that? Yeah. That sort of stuff with kids just is like my nightmare. I can't and I'm I'm the kid person.

1:13 You're a kid person. You're a kinder teacher. But cooking with them, Yeah. No, thank you. Yeah. With my own kids. I mean, you have this, like, I always have this, like, grand idea of like, you know, that cooking with kids is gonna be this idyllic, amazing experience. Yeah. Licking the spoon and smiling and laughter, you know. Like. Like a hallmark. Card. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But it's just not. It's a no. No, it's and you end up with flour from one end of. I don't even know how it gets. I know so far the child.

1:43 Oh, yeah, Yeah. Fair. Fair, fair. Yeah. Yep, Yep. I've got one kid who won't eat what we cook, but he loves cooking. Yeah, that's weird. Exactly. My chip. Yeah. Mason really is not interested whatsoever. Brody loves getting into the cooking and stuff. Would he eat it? No, the point of like even just baking goods, like I made a made some brownies this week for lunch boxes and stuff on the weekend. Did the whole, you know, I'm going to bake, you know, packet You're not. An idiot. But because he was begging for brownies and I was like, oh God, I can't even bother with this because I hate this shit.

2:16 But yeah, I thought, I've had fun. We'll do a packet mix. Yeah. And I thought, oh, I should really do this more often, you know, bake and that. But they just don't fucking eat. It Yeah, I make banana bread every week for Lucas, 'cause that's one thing I know he will always eat. Yeah, and he loves helping me make that. But then it just takes double the amount of time and I'm like, we're already very time poor. Got you. Whereas Ollie will demand what he wants for the week for his baked treats, but he's not all that interested in cooking really.

2:44 He'll cook savoury stuff with Peter, but he's not interested in baking. He's he's a more of an immediate cook. I need yes, my ramen, yes I'll. Cook it. Yeah. Last night we got home. From where were we? Some sport probably. I can't even remember where we were. And we got, we got home and he was like, I think I'm gonna have like a supplementary ramen after sports training because he'd already had his dinner. And anyway, I was like, I'll make it for you. You go and have your shower or make it. Well, I didn't make it right, did I?

3:12 Because I didn't get the proportion of soup to noodles correct. And he's like, look mum, I will eat it this time. But next time, just so you know, I actually need more soup because I really like the way that the noodles then slurp through the soup well. There's an answer to that mate. You cook it yourself. But. Then then I would have had to have like cleaned up after his mess of. He made told me about the. The bread. Oh. Yes. OK, so this week I got home from BFT in the morning. So I get home at 7 and normally Pete, producer Pete then goes off to work as I come through the door.

3:49 Yeah. And on this particular morning, Oliver was like, I think I might make a smoothie for breakfast. I'm like, Yep, you go for it. I know he can operate the smoothie machine. No worries. So I've gone to have my shower come out and there is pink food dye everywhere. And I was like, like literally it was on the white bench top. Yeah, Whitestone bench top, corner of the bench top, pink food dye on drips of pink food die on the floor over to where the smoothie maker base is. And I'm like, mate, what has gone on here?

4:20 And he's like, oh, well, I was making a blueberry and Raspberry smoothie. I'm like, yes. And he's like. But when when I blended it, it was too purple, too blue. Yeah, red and blue make. Yeah, and he's like, I wanted it to look pinker, so he's got out. The Fluoro pink gel food colouring added that in. That'll learn you to have your food colouring everywhere. We have Festival Pantry, Yeah. Was that up? Yeah. And yeah, dyed my kitchen in the in the. I'm like mate, you know, that doesn't change the flavour.

4:55 He's like, no but. He's gotta be pink. Eat with your eyes too, Mum. Oh. God, I love it.

5:01 He he's, he's gonna have to be a chef or something. Something, yeah. Or a critic A. Critic. Yeah. Actually, no. That's more his game, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can't imagine him in a kit. Well, could I? No. He'll burn himself too much. Or chop your finger off or something. Oh. God, yeah. Oh yeah. No, that's yeah. Yeah, so that was that was that same child this morning again. I was up 540I leave for BFT in the morning and normally the house is still asleep. Definitely silent. I'm about to creep out the door this morning and I hear this noise and so I go back to check because I thought maybe the dog wanted out or something.

5:37 I go back to check. Oliver is fully dressed and ready to go at 5:40 AM Because they've got into school sports today, first one ever. And he was so excited. He's Oh my God, it was just gorgeous. Now it's cold. We live in Melbourne. It's cold today. He came out and he was actually wearing a like the footy singlet and then just a puffer vest over the top, so his arms were still fully exposed. And I'm like, oh mate, I think you're gonna need to probably put a jumper on today because you're gonna be outside all day.

6:08 Before you play yeah, yeah, because what what's the go? Do they just play this afternoon or is it an? All day, all day. They play four games today, the day, and yes, four games today and four games next Friday. And then there's another 2 later in the term. That'll be the issue of the buses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is so bloody expensive. So expensive, particularly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it used to be like every Wednesday afternoon was was sport like they used to go, we used to go between schools and things.

6:37 But it's obviously a new thing they've done is condense it down to certain days. Yeah. So I. Think I'm pretty sure it's four days a term they go right, Yeah, which it's so cool. He was so excited to just gorgeous. He's Yeah, it's just super, super excited. Yesterday morning before leaving for school. Yeah, he actually wrote out a regime for last night. So it actually didn't include the sloppy ramen, surprisingly enough. Wow. But it was about Sarah Gunn foam roller and the spiky ball, 30 minutes on each just to really get himself going.

7:10 And a magnesium salt bath last night. So if he's not well and truly prepared for today, I don't know who is. Certainly no cramps really well limbered up that's. Right. Oh, he is an absolute gem. Oh, I love this. I love how serious they take it. Oh, it's so serious. That is amazing. Yeah. Oh God, that kid. Yeah, I just remember when the kids, when the boys were really young, I feel like Lucas was a baby at the time. I went to see. I went to this. It was called, like, raising good boys or something like that.

7:44 Yeah. And it was Michael Cargrey, A psychologist. Yeah. And I remember him saying at the time, he's like, you've got to find what your child is passionate about and push them to that. Like, yeah, don't let them stop it. Keep that. Wow, keep that. Fire going and I'm like, I can see now why because they just love it so much. It really gets them involved. If you were that parent who was like, no, mate, you're not making any smoothies, like, or no, I'm cooking the ramen or, you know, don't eat ramen.

8:10 Yeah, yeah. I mean, he would just, he would drive you nuts. Yeah. Yeah. And absolutely find other things he shouldn't be getting involved. Yeah. That's it. So, yeah. You know, you can see exactly why that is because, yeah, you gotta let them have their, their, their thing. And it might not be something that you're, you're OK rude sometimes. But yeah, it's it's so important. Yeah. I love it. And it just it, it is who he is. It's letting him be who he truly is at his core and his essence. Like so gorgeous.

8:35 Yeah. Funny. Anyway, I finally got all of the pink food dye out. It took butt loads of GIF and yeah yeah and a lot of elbow power of elbow grease. God. Anyway. Yeah, well. You said you could. I see. I still feel like I can see a tinge of pink on the bench. But you. Said. You see it as someone who doesn't know it was their sort of stuff. I couldn't see it, but you feel like it's like. Scarred into my brain anyway. Yeah. You'll always see it, yeah. I know it's like my son, he did these drawings on my desk, on my, at my office desk kind of thing at home.

9:09 And I'd said to him a million times prior to him doing this, put something underneath your drawing because you're using permanent markers, you know, and I bought them these special mats to do that within everything. What did he do it? No drew. And he said to me, I did put stuff under. I put other pieces of paper like you know that you need the mat because yeah it went right through the paper and so it's spider man of course picture on my desk at home that I swear to it one day I'm gonna have to send that desk back and re re oil it and everything because I can still see it like it's it's there No, if someone else probably wouldn't be able to see it, but he can see the first day he.

9:44 Knows exactly what that outline makes, yeah. He was really good at drawing Spider Man back in the day though, so I'm sure it's. Not good all that anymore really. They're all over my office at work. Like he literally he came to where I worked for a while and so he in my office, he did all these sticky note pictures of spider Man while I'd be still finishing up for the day or whatever and they're all over my office. I can't like even though I've moved my office around since I haven't moved them. No, they're all still there.

10:07 But I've asked him to redraw and draw Spider Man again since and he cannot do it how he used to do. It that's so funny because he was like, really good at it. Yeah, really, really good. Yeah, nothing like. It anymore that's funny, really just out of practice. Yeah, absolutely. Switch to something else. Now we can draw Steph Curry so. OK, Yeah. Yeah, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah. Oh man. Anyway, I've got a few shout outs. What was that? Just my phone with my notes on it. So. OK, I'll, we'll allow it because you know, we do need to, you know, we need you to have your notes.

10:39 That's it. Well, I. Have pieces of paper. I have Everything Everywhere. I won't look at any of it while I'm doing it, but anyway, no. It's just it's a comfort thing knowing that it's here. I. Could find it if I needed to find it. Yeah, I've highlighted pages I have. Well, I use it. Probably not. No, but that's OK. We'll. See, it's there, how the brain goes as we move along. Yeah, we'll see few shout outs for today. We've got Naomi, Eloise, Emma, who sent us a really nice message and letting us know she listens to our podcast once she's dropped the kids off, done her full day's morning's worth of work before she actually goes to paid work.

11:12 Yeah, we were just saying that's like so true. You're really legit. Do you work a full day just to get your kids out the door? And then, well, it's absolute pure exhaustion walking into your work day. But. I feel like you do kind of switch hats and it does, you do kind of. You have to start setting. Yeah, yeah, as women, we can do that. Are you good at that? Yes, but I'm. Always running from one thing to another. I think we were saying that just before as well. The day never stopped. No, you literally as we do full day's work just to get out of the house and get everyone sorted, get to work and do a full day's work and then you leave work to go and do another full days of work of doing the runaround of after school pickups and drop offs and doing sport run, dinner, dinner, etc. Cleaning up packing for the next day.

11:56 Yeah, I've got that forethought, thinking of like, what is tomorrow and what do I need for that? Yeah, it's exhausting. It is. So hats off to all of us doing it. Yep, absolutely. We will struggle through and if we can help with any way in that travel, yeah, bring someone to chat to. We're here and. We get it. Totally. And then the last shout out for today is to Anaram 53 who messaged us on Spotify, I think so listening to us through there. So thank you for your comments and keep them coming. And I think Anaram actually sent us a message on a really old episode, but recently.

12:32 So maybe they're catching up and listening to old episodes. So thanks for that support. We we can certainly see the numbers of our past episodes going up and up and up. Yeah, they're constant going up at the moment. It's really crazy, like coming through from other episodes. So yeah, when they're finding us from a new one and then going back or what have you, I'm not sure, but I don't know how many of that works, but people are finding it so great and. We like seeing those numbers going up and up.

12:54 It really makes us feel good. Absolutely. It's crazy. Yeah. All right, what are we talking about today? Today we have a classic Australian story and almost want to say iconic. Oh, totally iconic. I've actually written that in my notes somewhere. I'm like the thing that I find iconic now. I think if I say this, it'll give away. I mean, people know from the title anyway what they're listening to. But for me, when I think about, so we're obviously doing Chappelle Corby. When I think about her, the first image that comes to my mind is when she was found guilty in her trial.

13:26 Oh yes, that image of her. That is iconic. Yeah. That is like a touchstone of the 2000s, isn't? It yeah, I think, I think it was I think Chappelle Corby that said it. If you were roughly 15 or above, you know who I am like, yeah, that is so true in Australia, she's so well known for. And that's the image I think we all have of her. Unfortunately, unfortunately, yeah, it's really we had. A decade of this, of her story and the trials and tribulations that went along with it in the media almost constantly, though.

14:01 Yeah. But in researching this, there are thousands upon thousands of news articles. There is so much content out there because. People are stupidly I do this sometimes the beginning of my week I will just print a heap of shit right, OK, and then over the week I'll read and whatever have you OK, one of the one of the ones I did print early on in the week and then didn't go to for what quite some it was just the Wikipedia page of Chappelle Corby. OK, right. And I did, I picked it up to rate to have a look at it and went, why the hell is there so many pages?

14:27 Wow. There's a lot of information on her. No, no, no. It was all the bibliography. Yeah. Literally the news partner, which I then went clicking on news articles kind of find them far more interesting, really. What's on Wikipedia? It's not. Yeah. But it was a great reference then for finding news articles because holy cow, I'm not kidding. As a minimum, 20 pages of just lists of news articles that were being referenced within the Wikipedia page, Let alone then what else is out there so insane amounts in the story of news.

14:58 Stories and imagine the like the pressure that that would add to you as a person under like going through this. I mean, again, Chappelle says this, the trial by media for her was in a lot of ways far more detrimental to her mental health and her state of being during. I mean, obviously the conditions that she was imprisoned in were fucking horrible. But you know, it was that constantly saying media articles about herself and, and I, she was interviewed on Australian TV after she came back and everything.

15:29 And in that in one of those interviews, she actually says that it was it was seeing the words in the media like Chapelle Corby, convicted drug smuggler, she said that was the thing that really got to it. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Do you have a very firm opinion on what you think happened, or are we gonna see as we go along? I'm trying to stay neutral in this, OK? But I do like, OK, because, yeah, over the years I have spoken to people, Yep, who are in, I can't name necessarily, but in very high positions in federal police etcetera, Yep, who have firm opinions on this.

16:09 Yeah. I can't not hear what they've had to say. Sure, sure. And that there is obviously some truth to rumours that were around. Yeah, look, I I fully agree with that. Yeah, I think.

16:20 But certainly before I started researching this, I had AII felt very strongly one way. Whereas in researching this, I actually feel like my opinion probably hasn't necessarily changed. But I think there is so much reasonable doubt in this, yes, that I don't think she should have been convicted, no. And had she sought trial, yeah, had she sought trial in Australia, there's no way she would have gone to prison. If there. Yeah, exactly. I do. I think that the the the punishment fit the crime, Yeah.

16:51 All those sorts of things come out of play. The simple fact of the matter is, unfortunately, at the end of the day, it happened in Indonesia. Yeah, we can get to it, I guess, as we talked about it. But yeah, it's it's a very interesting dynamic to it of whether whether or not, yeah, innocent or guilty I think is a different question sure to the punishment. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. All right. So Chapelle Lee Corby was born on a day that only legends are born, the 10th of July 1970. 7:00 Not that. Year.

17:19 Not that year for me, but that is my birthday. So Chapelle and I birthday twins. Wow. Because there's so many connections, yes.

17:30 Plays a lot, actually. I actually, I meant to say before we even got started, everyone needs to stay tuned to the end of this episode because we actually have an amazing little bonus for you that we will have ready to go at the end of the episode. So please stay tuned. If for nothing else, it's for that. OK, so Chappelle was born in QLD, grew up on the Gold Coast in Australia. Her mum. Now then we were talking about the pronunciation of her mum's name. You say Rosalie. Yeah, it's, it's spelt ROSLEIGH.

18:07 So I'm like Rosalie. But anyway, whatever. And. Every news story I heard her saying it's Rosalie. Rosalie. All right, let's go with that. Rose. And her dad was Michael Corby. Now Rosalie has Rosalie. Oh God, Ms. Rose has six children, 3 to Michael. So they had Michael Corby 3. Mercedes is the eldest Mercedes Corby. We all know her from all of the news coverage as well. We'll get into her a little bit later. Can we call her Mercedes? I just can't come with the Merc thing, but that's all right. Oh, Merc.

18:42 Oh, no, I'm going with Mercedes. Mercedes Coco. Yeah. Well, what do you think? Oh, it's Mercedes. I can't. Yeah. Thanks. I can't do Merc. Oh, no, Michael Junior and then Chappelle's the youngest of that relationship. And then Chappelle's mom had three other kids to two different dads, I think. I believe so. I think 2:00 to another man and then then one one I believe so I guess Chappelle was very young when her mum and dad divorced. I think she was not even 2. No, like she was one, I think. Yeah, yeah, only a baby.

19:15 And the dad left the home but and he went. Was he a minor or something? I think he worked remotely somewhere. Did so he he worked on a an open cut mine. That's South QLD I believe, or yeah. So it was a bit of a FIFO type worker and he would come back. I think he was as involved in the kids lives as he could be given that the nature of his work and the fact that I guess they were split up. But I think. Kids would go out and visit these areas. They would, obviously. They saw him as much as they could, yeah.

19:46 And he would, he would try and get back to see them as much as he could, too. Yeah. I think the separation was fairly amicable because when he came back to see to to the Gold Coast, yeah, he would actually still stay in the family home. Yeah. And spend Christmases and stuff with them. So yeah, it seems like it was, you know? Fairly in the in terms of divorced families and divorced couples, yeah, it was actually fairly, fairly. Amicable, which meant, yeah, obviously the kids then had, you know, a good relationship with him, yeah.

20:15 Yeah, growing up, I think Chappelle was a typical Aussie teenager. She says that when she was 14, she did try drugs, but it made her hallucinate and she didn't like it very much. By drugs, I'm assuming she meant marijuana. She didn't specify in her. That's her said.

20:35 And she also didn't like the fact that when she did she would always end up in a take away shop and she didn't want to get fat. Oh really? Yeah, that's hilarious. At the age of 17, she first travelled overseas to Bali. So this was her first ever overseas trip. Yeah, she went with Mercedes and Michael and stayed for about 6 months. So I'm like, why were you not at school? Like, where did school fit in here? This was in early 1995. She came home from that six month stint in Bali and almost immediately went to travel to Japan.

21:10 So Mercedes was living in Japan at the time. I think she was teaching or something. OK. And and so Chappelle decided to go over and I think she only spent maybe a couple of months, maybe 3 months or so in Japan, but they, she loved living there. Absolutely loved her time there. Yeah, that she then came back to the Gold Coast just in time for her 18th birthday. Fair call. Need to party it up with your mates. Yeah. And while she was back home, she met a man at Coles, our local like one of our national supermarkets, by the name of Kimi Tanaka.

21:47 This is. That's a. Pseudonym that he goes, he goes by. He doesn't want to be named in any of this, but he does. Has done interviews and things. Yeah, well, you can see his face. Yeah, yeah. But I I couldn't find his actual name. No, I did try because I was like, what? This seems, I don't know a bit. So that's why are you putting your face out there but not your name? Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Like, I probably wouldn't want to be embroiled in this any more than I had to be. He was out of the picture by then.

22:09 So, well and really, Yeah. So they meet at Coles and she invites him to her 18th birthday party. And I think she liked the fact. So he was in, he was here on a working visa from Japan and he lived in Toyoma, which is where she probably just spent some time. Yeah, where the area that she'd been around, But. And so he was a professional. No, sorry. That's her. I'm sorry. I gave him Mercedes. Mercedes. Husband. No, don't, don't. OK, Stop. Stop.

22:37 So he went to the 18th and they ended up becoming a couple very, very quickly. Yeah. They then moved to Omazaki, which is in just South of Tokyo. And he was working on a tea farm. She was working and a surf shop, I think. And she was working in a Riya Khan, like a, as a sort of like a Hostess type thing, like a hospitality worker, basically. Yeah. In 1997 they got engaged and off. Yeah, this, yeah. Two weeks after they got engaged, he takes her to the Omazaki town hall, gives her papers to signs and she thought they were opening up a bank account together.

23:17 Yes. As they leave, they get in the car and he's like, oh, by the way, we just got. Married. Like what? What the fuck? Yeah, she said like so from this point on, the relationship really changed and whether that was literally her really uncomfortableness around just that alone that triggered it or what, which I wouldn't blame in her. Book She actually said that this was an absolute turning point, not only not only for the way she saw him, yeah, but also for the way he treated her. This is it. There was a real change in everything.

23:50 And whether that was, you know, that's what he wanted all along was that once they married this this is how you're gonna now things are gonna be like once we're married, that's it's it's a flick of a switch or whether she sort of, I think has really said this or like her attitude to him change. So whether that then that was what made his attitude towards her change. Yeah, who knows what, you know, chicken and egg kind of situation. A little from column. A little from column. I think so, to be honest.

24:12 Yeah. So he she apparently it became quite abusive relationship didn't wasn't a good marriage at all. So she didn't well she stuck it out though still I mean it wasn't till 2000 until she can't say separated. So I mean, good on her for giving it a red hot crack, but obviously it was not a good relationship. Yeah, she, she claims that the relationship was are like financially abusive and emotionally abusive. So yeah, she needed to obviously get out. As you said, they in July 2000 she left him yeah and returned to Australia via Bali.

24:48 So she met her. Mercedes. In Bali, says Mercedes by this stage was living there with her. Husband and then I think they had a few kids or at least someone. I think they had one, one at that stage, yeah. Yeah, so tell us what you were gonna say about Wayan. So Wayan, he was a surfer and so he was doing sort of the Asian circuit of pro surfing. So he's apparently his English was incredible. They met in Bali, but and and fell in love. It sounds like it was about quite a a very positive relationship.

25:20 They seemed to be really, really strong, but they then ended up settling down in Bali when his surfing career was like coming towards a bit of an end. So he was, I think it was one of the one of the RIP Curls Surf Pro participants and everything. So, yeah, he was very heavily into his surfing. But they settled in in Bali with an idea though that they would eventually move to back to move to Australia with their children once they became sort of school age. So that was their plan wasn't to live in Bali forever, but that's where they're basing themselves because of where he was leaving, going for surfing events and things mainly.

25:52 Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's where he was. He came into the picture, Yeah, they've had fair bit of property. They owned a reasonable sized property in Bali because you can probably buy something. They're a bit cheaper than we could here in Australia, I just say. They're in a really nice place in CUDA, wasn't it? Yeah, in CUDA, yeah, Really. You can see photos of it online and yeah, yeah, really nice. Called a. Compound. Yeah, it was a family compound, so I believe multiple of his family members lived there.

26:17 But it was massive. Yeah. And they all had their own, like, little houses within the compound. Yeah, it was, Yeah. It's, it's an interesting lifestyle, I guess compared to, you know, our Western culture, it's very different. But then the weather lends itself to that sort of indoor outdoor living and you know, it's Bali is very. Humid. Is and it's very humid temperatures and such a beautiful place and the people are gorgeous. It's yeah, it really is like a, you know, they say it's Australia's playground and it really is.

26:47 So many Australians visit there every year and it's a gorgeous place to go. I love Bali. I've been made be. I can't. I don't know if it's three or four times, but I just. Love it. Somewhere I've never travelled to. Yeah, yeah. But I know it's a majority of people you speak to in Australia. It's, you know, yeah. Been to Bali at least. Like we live in the southern states of Australia and it's still only a six hour flight. Yeah. I mean, you live in western sort of Australia, Perth, etc. I mean, it's only a three hour flight.

27:13 Yeah, they they, they are big travellers to Bali, even if we we call ourselves big travellers on this side. But apparently I. Think it's only an hour from Darwin. Yeah. Yeah, it's really not far. Yeah. It's more like a domestic flight. Exactly. So yeah, it is somewhere that Australians frequent and have done for decades and decades and decades, although it has changed a lot over the years. Yeah. But now there's a lot of, you know, big chain hotels and, like, very luxurious, you know, villas and that kind of thing.

27:42 And yeah, you can get out of Bali what you want to get out of it. Yeah, you can sort. Of see whatever you want there. I visited last year with some friends of ours and you know you go down and you get a massage for like $7.00 for an hour, so twice a day. Obviously. Yeah. You know, so it's that kind of thing, you know, it's cheap, cheap sort of holiday once you're there, really great food, really great people, beautiful weather. Yeah, I can understand the appeal of living there, although I can also understand not wanting to educate your children in a third world country.

28:15 Maybe this is the thing I mean, and that's the thing with with Bali and I, I, I struggle with that with certain places where we we do venture to for these cheap, you know, luxurious holidays because there's always that side of things where it is, it's luxury and all these sorts of things that we're splashing money around. Well, you know, the little bit of money we have to spend on holidays or what have you. But then over the other side of that is, you know, can be some very poor living condition.

28:37 Absolutely for the workers, which I really find hard. Yeah, I don't cope well with that. So I think that's why I don't choose often to travel like places like that. I don't know but. Then I I totally. Then if we don't have the tourist dollars exactly, they don't have anything. At all during. COVID they yes, they were in absolute dice was people were, you know, starving like yeah, because there was no money. No, tourist like tourism is their main industry. And yeah, without tourism there's no money.

29:06 No, it's really it's, it's a really hard. That's it. I find. I really just find that, yeah, I struggle with it. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. But I mean, obviously because the other thing that has really impacted Bali, which is around this time that we're looking at is the Bali bombings, which is obviously potentially another story we can do another day. But yeah, because that's that's a huge one. But because that impacted obviously tourism in terms of like, do we want to travel there when these sorts of things have happened?

29:29 So I feel like. This case impacted that too. Absolutely, it's gay people are scare in terms of and this and this is a thing again, we can talk about it more about travel itself, you know, into other countries, you know, your own country's laws and things like that. But you always have to know that if you're when you're travelling that you need to abide by other countries rules. Yeah. I will never forget the day when I first travelled internationally on my own and landed in Hong Kong and we got out of the we're just doing really transferring.

29:56 We're only sort of staying there for a day. But walked out of the off the plane through the airport and the security through the airport were carrying these massive guns. And I had a bit of a flip out, like intimidating of like, Oh my God. Like, you know, not in Kansas anymore. Like at a moment of like, you know, like, oh, wow, the world is, you know, different elsewhere. Yeah. And it's not wrong. It's a culture shock. Yeah, and the thing? Is it's not wrong, it's just different, Yeah. You have to accept those things when you're travelling.

30:24 So that's all part of it is absolutely, yeah, for sure. So where are we? We're at Chappelle leaving. She's left her marriage. Her. Marriage gone via Bali, and she's come back to her home in the Gold Coast. Yeah, she enrolled in. Beauty school. Yeah, this time. Yeah. She didn't quite finish, so I think she completed two out of the four units to become a beautician. Yeah. She dropped out because her father, Mick, was diagnosed with cancer and she became his carer. Yeah. And so she started working at the.

30:57 Fish and chip shop with her, her mum that she owned again, so Australia, so Australia and also working at Kohl's again. I think she went back to working at Kohl's as well as that, that time. Well, I think she needed a bit more. Flexibility in what she was doing so that she could be available for her dad when he needed it during the day more so than anything. So she was working fish and chip shop after, you know, during the dinner rush, I think, and then Kohl's on the weekends. And when there was someone else to look after her dad.

31:23 Yeah, it sounded like he actually became quite debilitated very, very quickly, which is interesting. Yeah, I don't. Know varying counts on that. Yeah, well, to to. Completely derail what you're studying and. To take on a carer. Who's a child is a very significant decision and you would think there'd be a significant health outcome being the reason for that. But anyway, that's that will get we will 100% still get to that. Yeah. All right. This now brings us to the 8th of October in 2004. Chappelle's age, 27.

32:00 She decides to go to Bali for two reasons. First reason being Mercedes 30th birthday. Yeah. And the second reason was because she'd been caring for her dad and she needed a break and decided this would be a nice way to go. I also think that at this time. It was kind of this is where he started to decline, as in I think prior to this she was like, it was all a bit of a family shock that he was sick and what they didn't really know what he was going to happen for him and what it was looking like. Yeah.

32:28 I think he'd been told it could be a month, could could be a week, could be a month, could be years. Don't know. We're gonna, you know. So I think it was appointments. It was all those sorts of things, more so that she was caring for prior to this point. Whereas it was basically the thought process of like they'd sort of had a bit more results on things and that things were going to maybe decline after this that go take a break while you can because things might get tougher, right? Yeah, that makes sense.

32:52 Yeah, so Qantas Flight 5 O1 Brisbane to Sydney then they were going to go from Sydney to Denpasar, Yeah. There were four people travelling. In her party, so it was Chappelle, there was Katrina Richards, who was aged 17. She was a preschool teacher and she also worked part time at the family's fish and chip shop. Ellie Macomb, who was 25 years of age, she was a friend and former flatmate of Chappelle's. They've been friends for about four years or so. And then Chappelle's half brother James, who was only 16 years old and a year 11 student at the time, Roz.

33:29 So the night before they had all stayed at Roz's house and because she was driving them to the airport, they had a very, very early flight to catch. They tried to get a. Flight that was direct to Bali? Apparently yes, but for whatever reason, I don't think they weren't. I don't think there were many direct flights from at that time from Brisbane because they were flying Australian airlines and I think Australian airlines, they helped internationally you go through. Sydney, yeah. Sydney yeah, so.

33:57 The night before, they've had a sleep over at Rosa's house because they ended up being dropped at the airport a bit after 5:00 AM. What the? Account is from Chappelle and the other three members of the travelling party was that that night they were sort of all packing their bags, getting everything ready. And Chappelle had packed her boogie board bag and zipped it up and everything was kind of ready to go. The next morning. They were putting together their last, you know, shoving your toothbrush and whatever else you used that morning.

34:33 And Ellie says that she forgot that she'd borrowed Chappelle's flippers. Now, I don't know why you'd need flippers in Melbourne, sorry, in Brisbane. Like, what? Had she been swimming the day before? You use flippers of heavy. If you're if you're into that sort of stuff, yeah, OK. I would say yeah. Anyway, she borrowed Chappelle's flippers. Remember, we don't have an issue with the whole. Flipper thing that it's the fact of taking the fucking thing to Bali to begin with Yeah well that's weird. It gets me, isn't it?

35:02 To me that although I did I. Actually did look this up a bit because that got me to like, how the fuck would you take a boogie board to Bali when you can either hire one or buy one there for probably $5? Yeah, but if you're a super into your boogie boarding or boogie boarding, but you're super. Into and she wasn't. Well, I don't think that to. That degree, I mean, sorry, OK, my family was super into body boarding, OK, right. I can categorically, categorically, Oh my God, categorically tell you there is no way that either of my brothers would have gone to Bali and taken their very expensive and well used body boards.

35:43 Yeah, that's right. Because there is a difference when I'm talking about a body board and a boogie board. Yes, because a boogie board is a piece of shit, is a foam. A body board is a serious bit of it's like, it's like a surfboard. It's equivalent to a surfboard. And I understand they they would not have taken them, but people do. Take like I've seen people when we've gone to Balik, not not body boards, but surfboards, absolutely surf, no. Surfboard is. It needs to be a right size. It needs to be the right way.

36:11 Well. When I was no they are. Well, not when you when you read the body board things if you're a pro body. Board are yeah yes anything below that no yeah literally literally anyway I fully. Agree. Why the fuck were you taking your body board for two weeks? So there was. Anyway, so Ellie. Well, Ellie then says she forgot that she'd borrowed Chappelle's flippers, puts them in the bag that morning. No, sorry. She gives them to Chappelle. Yeah. When they're at the boot of the car, in the garage, at Ross's house and Chappelle opens the bag in front of them, throws them in, throws them.

36:46 In shuts the. Zips it up. All the way to the edge. Yeah, yeah. That's important. Anyway, Ros then drops. Them at the airport and some photo of them at the. Airport that Rosalie takes like, you know, supposedly the last photo of them all together and the last photo where you see Chappelle. Happy. Yeah. Oh, that's what, yeah. That's right. That's what she says. Yeah, Last. Time we've seen. Chappelle happy. Yeah, at 5:33 AM CCTV shows the group checking their bags in at So they fly. They flew A Qantas flight from Brisbane to to Sydney and then it was an Australian Airlines flight from Sydney to Denpasar.

37:23 Yeah, they checked 4 bags, 3 suitcases and this boogie board bag. The boogie board bag had to go. Over to the desk no one ever wants to go to over the oversized but. Before they did that, they weighed all four bags together right at the checking theater. Yeah. So they weighed the three suitcases and the boogie board bag, and they totalled a weight of 65 kilos. Yeah. Then Chappelle had to. Schlep over to the special whatever the oversized baggage size baggage area. Yep, Yep, as you're void that like the plague.

37:57 I've had to do that with like. Pushes and prayers and shit. Yeah, it's the worst. It is the worst. And check it in there. That was all fine. They go through customs, go go immigration and they Oh no, sorry, this was a domestic flight. They fly from Brisbane to Sydney, everything's all hunky Dory and connecting flight off. From Sydney, their bags were checked. Through from Brisbane all the way through to Denpasar. So it's not like they had to go to Sydney, collect their bags and recheck them. It was checked all the way through.

38:27 Yeah. What we? Know. Is that when they arrived at Denpasar roughly 12 hours later, Yeah. 2:30. PM local time they arrived. There is. Obviously the thing that we all know well, first of all. She collects the bags off of the baggage carousel and everything, including the boogie board. Yep, and she notices that one of the straps is ripped. Not uncommon on baggage things. I mean, God, how many times rough a day? With stuff, watching those videos. Yeah, it's like crazy. They're like throwing. Sheets.

39:04 Like anyone, it's got fragile written off. Yeah, fragile. Schmagile. Oh God. So she collects it, notices that, and so with that, she's in. Now this is where I get a little bit confused. Wait, this is from her book. Like this is her story of this is that she then is trying to manage her boogie board and her luggage, but there were three bags and four people or 4 bags and four. People 3 bags. Four people and the boogie board, right? So therefore, that's one bag per person, right? Yeah. So. For whatever reason, oh, someone says she's trying to drag along this boogie board that's got this broken strap on it or whatever that she, that one of her friends says Ellie James.

39:45 Yeah, help Chappelle. And so then he's like, oh, OK and grabs her boogie board bag from her so that she's only carrying her luggage bag. Yeah, where's who's overloading with bags when there's only, I don't know, I mean this. Is what travelling with the 16 year old boys probably like? What? So he had nothing. I don't know, I'll probably. Probably had his own backpack. The book it ranks out as. If he's also trying got more things. But anyway, no I don't. I mean. I don't, I don't know that I mean 16 year old boys, who do they think about but themselves True, true that.

40:15 But what what we know is. The the passage of these bags, right. So that's very keenly known, but there are certain gaps in information. Yeah, right. Yes, so in Sydney the bag arrived into Bay 5 and was sent over to PSC. So Bay 5 is a domestic Bay that the luggage comes into? Yep. PSC is. An international Bay that obviously bags are sent out So what happened is the bags come through we know they all got scanned so all four bags were scanned at Sydney airport yes and there were three suitcases and this special item which actually came out last and therefore went into a luggage storage thing with a canvas flap on the ground in Sydney all right so because the because the body board bag had been too big to go on the conveyor belt it was manually taken from the plane that had come from Brisbane manually taken to the PSC right ready to board the plane to denpasar we.

41:37 Know that at. 8:18 AM The bag was put into a specific baggage canister. Yeah. And that just by chance happened to have two of the two of the three suitcases in this same canister. OK, just by by chance, so also. Then sorry, what you're saying is that no one else flying to Bali had a body board bag, correct? So just standing. By the fact why the fuck does she take a body board bag? Wouldn't there be lots of people carrying them and lots of people on those flights with them if that was something that people did?

42:08 I guess, yeah. Well, no, it was the only one, yeah.

42:15 It was scanned. So the body board bag was the 70th and last or second to last I think item scanned into that particular canister. Now. This canister. Had a canvas flap. It was not locked in any way. It was then left on the tarmac for 97 minutes before it was then loaded on to the Australian Airlines flight from Sydney to Denpasar. And they can track all this but. No, but no CCTV footage has actually been viewed of that. No, no. The reason? Being that CCTV was wiped within 72 hours, so it was just on a loop.

42:49 Yeah. And they only kept the recordings for 72 hours. Yeah, I believe the Qantas baggage handlers kept it for longer, but it was still too late before they were. Well, there's even conjecture, conjecture around that. Yeah. So that just gives you a bit of an idea. Oh, the other thing I just wanted to note actually at this point, if you're a baggage handler or if you've got clearance to be on a tarmac at any Australian airport, international or domestic, you are not screened going into or out of work.

43:21 You don't have to go through any metal detectors. You don't have to put your bag through. Is that still to this day? No, I believe that's. Changed. Yeah, that's changed now, but back. Then that's yeah, that's what it was. There was no. Nothing. You could just. If you had the right pass, you could just come and go. Work, please. You've been. Cleared previously, therefore that was enough in their eyes. Yep, that's what they thought. I mean, you know, time you learn things. Yeah. What have you? And things have been changed, procedures have changed.

43:45 But now at that point in time, it was a belief of these people are trusted, therefore they can do. And. Yeah, Now James. 16 years of age, he's decided that he's actually going through a bit of a bodybuilding phase. Oh yeah, we all go through bodybuilding phases in our life. And he brought with him to to Denpasar 3030 cans of tuna. 16 I'm. All for. Diversity in a diet and I get that he wants to bulk, but you know, there's like there's chicken in. There's chicken in. Bali yeah, I'm sure you can get tuna in.

44:25 I'm pretty sure you'd probably buy tuna, but. Yeah, but he's decided. To take 30 cans. So he's had to go, he's had to declare it. I mean, it's perfectly. He's able to bring it in. There's no issue with it, but you just have to declare it. Yeah, so they've. Gone. But The thing is, when the bags come off the plane, this is standard operating procedure. Any International Airport that you go to, I believe even domestic in most countries as well these days, your bags actually go through X-ray. Yeah, at Denpasar Airport.

44:52 They don't take photos, though. The machines that they've got are literally just X-ray machines that are passing. It through and then it's done. That's right. Whereas in. Australia, we've got the technology that if there's something suspicious, it actually takes a photo so that they've got full record of what's happened. Yeah, they didn't have that technology in Bali at the time. Whether they do now or not, I actually don't. No, I would. I would assume so. I would say that'd. Be that would 20 increase their security measures, surely, Yeah, I would think so, yeah.

45:19 Because I mean in in. This we are talking, this is after Bali bombing, this is after September 11. You know, we, we have already moved towards a more secure, somewhat obviously secure system in terms of domestic flights. So sure. Yeah, yeah. So. What the X-ray has shown is that there was some kind of plant matter in this boogie board bag, a body board bag, sorry. And so the customs officers have kind of called them over to have their bags checked. Oh my God, that is such a fucking. You just feel like a criminal immediately.

45:54 And you're like, I don't have any, do I? Oh God, what have I packed? You know? Yeah, that's my dad. Like my dad often is gets checked are some I think it's just like the way it looks bit of a bike in it. Yeah. Like, yeah. And so if you're travelling with dad, I always try and stay a few people behind because I'm like, I don't want to get I don't want to get caught up in this. But yeah. So they've had their boogie bog. Sorry, they've obviously been flagged to be checked. Now there's this is where.

46:27 The story separates, yeah. There's. The customs office's account and there's Chappelle and her group, her travelling groups account of what happened next. All right, next page. So. The customs. Officer says because Jane, as you said, as you were explaining before, James has the bag and he's pulling it along for Chappelle and sort of. Looking at him to be, you know, spoken to about this, Yeah. Which I mean, to Chappelle's credit, she, well, she very much spoke up and said, no, that's mine. Yeah. You know, like you need to speak to me about that.

47:06 Basically. Not. Yeah, not James. Have you seen her interview? With Liz Hayes, the 60 Minutes interview where she tells about this story and she goes, oh, it's mine. I'm just so excited to be here. Yeah, Yeah. And I'm like. Yeah, but if you were. Being questioned by customs, regardless of whether you knew there was something in your bag or not, you're not that excited like that. That to me was like red flag. Yeah. So what what Chappelle's side of the story is, is that she willingly opened the bag straight away and saw that there was this 4.1 kilogram bag.

47:40 So we're talking the size of a pillowcase. Yeah. Bag of in a translucent space. Bag planted. Bag 2 layered. Vacuum sealed plastic, although one of the. Vacuum seals had broken, had it? There's I think there's varying, I think they I think they say that they did that. Oh, OK to. Check what it was. Wouldn't that be pretty friggin? Obvious. Well, they say to Chapelle, what is? Well, you have to test it. I. Guess to make sure. Like, I mean, you can't just go that's marijuana, but it's actually grass clippings, yeah.

48:14 So this is Chapelle's account. They say to her, what's that? She says it's marijuana. And they and they say, how do you know that? And she says, because I can smell it. Yeah, yeah. Which you would. Like even through a double bagged whatever, you could 100% smell it. Oh you there's a definite smell. Yeah, like there's it's unmistakable. OK, so the customs officer, though, says that he asked. So Chappelle said she willingly opened it without even being asked. Yeah, well, I think she she. Said something along the lines of like, can you open it so she opened like a top pocket on it.

48:49 Like there's like separate pockets. Yeah, that's what he says. But then. And then he said no. The bigger one, Yeah. And then so then she's gone to do that and then gone. And she says as she's opened that bigger one, she's seen this in there and just sort of done the whole that's, that's not mine like and backed off, he says. So the customs officer says that as he asked her to open the main part of the bag, she says no, no, no, I have some. And with that, he's opened the bag and seen the marijuana.

49:22 Yeah, that's what he and. Four other officers agree with his side of that. Now it's it's. Probably worth noting at the minute as well, at this time James is not there. No, James and Chappelle have actually been separated. The other because the other. And the other two people that were on the flight with them, they were allowed to get go through. And that, that's a very interesting thing too. I find that they didn't then go, hey, let's check all of your travelling party's luggage like they didn't check any.

49:52 Of the suitcases, None of the suitcases. Got checked. They were like basically we found it all like I mean, wouldn't oh, you know what I mean? Like there is something in that that I kind of procedure to be. Like, let's check every single thing this party, this party's brought with you like it? Could there could be more in other bags? Pills in the bag or something? Else in the bag, but the others were just like. No, no, you guys can go. We just want this now like so. Katrina's account of that is, Yep, she was shitting herself.

50:16 Like she was so worried. They knew Mercedes was waiting at the airport for them to pick them up. And so they were like, well, yeah, we're gonna have to go and figure out what's going on here. With that, they do take so Ellie and Katrina because they've detained James and Chappelle. Ellie and Katrina then let through the airport and they find Mercedes. Katrina says she stayed with those 3 bags and did not let them out of her sight because she was like some what if something's going on here that I don't know about?

50:45 So she's, you know, beside herself. They, they all were, they've finally allowed Mercedes to come in and be like, I don't know, see Chappelle and James and Mercedes account of this is that she then says to them, weigh all of the bags. Why aren't you weighing all of the bags to see if it matches what they were weighed at? Yeah, the 65 kilos at Sydney. Airport, at Brisbane Airport, I mean. And they said, oh, it's too. Late. They've gone out of the airport, yeah. So that's. Interesting. Yeah, that throws up.

51:15 To me, that alone throws up some reasonable doubt. Why wouldn't you? Yeah, weigh all of those bags? Because 4.1 kilos is a significant difference. Well, this is the other thing. That's the thing. Wouldn't you pick that up? And no, I mean, if you're such a big boogie boarder that you have to take your boogie board with you, you know what that boogie board weighs. So I've I've. Written here, surely you'd notice the difference in 4 kilos extra. So you wouldn't know. Like professional, because I'm assuming this is a professional body board.

51:46 I think so the OK, even if not the average professional body board can weigh between 15 and 35 kilos. And it's based on your body weight is to what? And she was a slight person, so I'm guessing she's going to be at the lower end of those. Would have barely been. 15 kilos, so you would notice. Another 4 kilos on that? Absolutely. OK. What the fuck? Why aren't you picking that up and going? Oh, weird, that feels really heavy. Yeah.

52:15 Seriously. I'm. Sorry, you would have known that difference in that, that way enough to kind of go, oh, that's weird and open it up already, she also says. Immediately to the customs officers. Oh, someone must have placed that in there. Yeah. Which again, I'm like, oh, I guess I I try and put myself in her shoes in a way because I'm like, if this happened to me, I would think the same thing. Like someone's put it there. I haven't put it there maybe, but then knew someone was gonna. Put it there.

52:40 Yeah, Like, did she?

52:43 Yeah. So I, I, I that I can't, I really can't consolidate in my brain. Same that you didn't know that that weight was different. Yeah. The other thing is that typically even back then it was meant to be that bags were weighed individually, not the whole parties bags were weighed. So unfortunately that would have been another Ave. of just weighing that item, especially with it being a separate item in that it's a bulky item that's going through a different hole in the wall kind of thing, both off to the planes that that should have been weighed and then weighed again.

53:16 They could have simply just then weighed on the other end to go OK, well, she checked a bag that was X number of kilos and now it's 4.2 kilos heavier on our end. That says something's happened in between 2:00. So that could have been very easily resolved there as well. For sure the. Other thing worth noting, and you see this when you're researching or looking at this case, is that around this time, and in fact on the day that they left Sydney Airport, there were baggage handlers that were arrested by the federal police for drug trafficking, cocaine and heroin, yes.

53:51 However, it was mostly international importation. Yes, there was some domestic transport included in this, but the main issue was actually importing heroin and cocaine. There was a large shipment. On that exact day that they went through Sydney Airport. Yep. So just just. Another thing like it's it is it's another thing that just muddies the water it does and as you. Alluded to at the beginning like that, there's all this reasonable doubt being then to me in those four points of, you know, interest for sure, yeah.

54:26 I just want to get into oh, actually we'll get into that in a minute. The the federal police did release a statement. This was around the time of Chappelle's trial, so months and months later, where they say there was recognized criminal activity on the day for drug dealers using unsuspecting travellers who are often none the wiser. So this was part of this investigation that the Australian Federal Police were doing at the time, and they were actually using innocent travellers as mules, unbeknownst to them, because they checked their bag, they'd put in the drugs into a bag, take a photo of the bag, send photo to the dodgy baggage handler, other end, other end.

55:08 And they take the drugs out before the bags even went out. So you wouldn't even know that your bag had been used for that purpose. Yeah. And that was just part of this investigation that the Australian Federal Police were executing on and around. Yes, this time that was. It was a well. Known thing that was going well. Not well known. I was well known by the Australian Federal Police. Not correct. Well known. Oh no, it. Wasn't public. It was not public knowledge. Prior to that, but if the federal police had said that, yes, this was something they were aware of and they were working on at the time of this occurring, yeah, Yeah.

55:40 So. From, to my mind, there were four major issues in the way this was handled, and I'm talking issues for both parties. Yeah, I'm not just saying this is an issue for Chapelle or not, just saying this is an issue for the Bali Customs and Bali judiciary. First thing, customs officers handled the bag without gloves. Yes, and they so Mercedes asked for the bag to be fingerprinted. She was then told too many people have touched it. What we know though, what Chappelle also? Says is that. So when that was opened up and she was in that room in the customs area and it was like, you know, everyone was kind of around the IT was, it was a buzz or they've found someone, they've got someone.

56:19 All these people were coming in and taking samples of it. Yeah. Samples for testing, but they were tested. No, never. Tested. Yeah, we can get to that too maybe. More in the in the court trial, but that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So there was lots of hands on that bag and Chappelle absolutely corroborates that. But yes, there were lots of hands going on that bag. But if they'd been tested, were her fingerprints on it at all? And that they never actually were able to find out. No, we don't know to this.

56:47 Day that her fingerprints run. That bag or the inner bag? Yes. The SO. Chappelle's lawyer Lily Sriraya Lubis and her assistant Vasu Rasaya pushed the director of Bali Narcotics Bureau. His name is Bambang Sugiato. To test because they were like this will prove or disprove whether she's touched it. We just wanna we don't care how many other fingerprints are there. We just wanna know if her fingerprints are there. Yeah, they refused. Well, there's. Also rumour that the Australian government also offered to do similar testing of not only the fingerprinting but also of the actual marijuana, because there is adna link that you can have of, of marijuana.

57:29 So you can basically by testing the marijuana, they could have found out a number of things, how it was grown, whether it was hydroponically grown or not hydroponically, they're very. Very well, yeah. From photographs, people. Have looked at that and decided that it's hydroponically grown however high quality apparently so they but they could determine that inconclusively like basically by doing the DNA testing of it but they could also from the DNA testing of it be able to say oh that was grown locally in Bali or whether it was grown you know in southern Queensland or you know or also have maybe we have found exactly where it was grown and who by because of maybe being able to link it up as closely as that now so the Australian federal government did apparently offer to do all that there is rumour that Chappelle herself refused that I I. Did read that, now the reasoning.

58:21 Behind her refusal apparently was because that the testing that they would do, the Australian federal government absolutely said we will do it. But please understand, whatever the results are, they'll be shared with not only you but also the Indonesians. So it would be basically better brought to court by the prosecution or defence. What the outcome was, you have to be, she had to be entirely 100% sure that you want me to want us to do it because it could absolutely prove your innocence. But you never know what comes back.

58:51 Might but then help them. It might have, but The thing is, even if it was found to be grown in southern QLD, it doesn't actually mean. I mean it sure points to something more, but it's not. It's not a proven thing, no, but they could have maybe. Because there was someone who was arrested, yeah. That they could have linked. It literally, yeah, OK. Actual. Samples that they had already, right. OK, Yeah. OK. Yeah, interesting.

59:20 My second issue, the bags were never reweighed. We've talked about this at Denpasar. All of the bags. Were checked under Chappelle's name, not that that really makes a difference. She was just the main. She did all of the bookings and all of that, so that that doesn't really have anything to do with it. Third issue, CCTV at Denpasar was not recorded or not handed over to her. Apparently it was. Available and the the judge in the trial actually stated we'll use it if we need to OK, so but her defense.

59:50 Never saw it. No, it was never so they. Don't know so the. CCTV should be able to show how the opening of the bag happened at at the customs area and it would have corroborated either Chappelle's story, yeah or the customs absolutely story. Yes they we don't. We withheld and never. Shown to anyone and why? Yeah, interesting. Yeah, again. See, it's like this tit to tat. Like you, you hear one thing and you're like, Oh yeah, and then you hear another thing, you're like, Oh no, you know. Well, because I think it's really.

1:00:19 Important to note here of just in terms of Indonesia and their laws, drug trafficking and anything to do with drugs, anything drug related is considered the absolute worst offence. Like they're they're apparently in their jails. Something like 78% of people who are in jail are there on drug charges. Yep. They just, they have absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for drugs in their legal system. So The thing is with this, that with when it becomes to when it comes to drugs, their laws are basically possession equals guilty.

1:00:54 Yep. And not only. That we in Australia here always have no, regardless of that is innocent until proven guilty. When it comes to drugs in Indonesia and their legal system, you are guilty until proven innocent. So therefore it is so typically here in Australia, if this was here, it would be a court case where she just basically doesn't have to prove anything. It's up to the prosecution to prove that that was hers and that she put it in there and that, you know, it had to, it would have to be proven all those aspects.

1:01:21 Whereas in Indonesia it was on her to prove that it wasn't hers and she didn't put it there. So that is a completely different story. That's also. Impossible. When you're not given access to the things, they might prove you're in a really, really, you're up, you're pushing. Shit up a hill. Oh shit, absolutely. They were. Yeah. And then the fourth thing. Is that the X-ray machine didn't take photos. There was no image to show if the marijuana was there when it went through the X-ray machine in Bali.

1:01:49 Yeah. So again, they're not quite sure what's going on. No. James is released and because Chappelle assumes full responsibility for that bag and as you said, possession is 100% the law there. So the fact that that she that the bag was in her possession, then, you know, James is innocent according to their laws. Yeah. She's taken to Hotel K or the Corbicon prison, and she's in this tiny room with 85 women. Oh, it's so that. Corbicon is just awful. You can look at. Photos. Absolutely. So the place.

1:02:28 Was built for 300 inmates, men and women. In 2017, there were 1700 inmates being held there. Like it's not just over capacity, it's so. Crowded. Absolutely. Crowded. You can't even. Like, they sleep on the floor. Yeah. And they're all in this, like, packed like sardines into into this one tiny room. There's one toilet that's open to the room. Like, there's no privacy whatsoever. Yeah. Chappelle talks about like having a period when she was there. There's no access to any hygiene product or medical attention.

1:03:10 No medical attention. No, they ended up having to appeal to because she suffered a great deal of mental illness throughout where I'm getting a little bit ahead, but yeah, anyway, so let's go through her trial. Do you think? Yeah, I was just gonna say in terms of. Crobicon just interesting little facts because it's such a horrendous place. You, you know, people want to escape, right? So there was actually a number of escape attempts or regular escape attempts, but a coupled note. So in June 2017, four prisoners, including an Australian, did manage to escape.

1:03:44 They dug a hole under a wall that was 50 centimetres wide, 50 centimetres by 75 centimetres right and went for 15 metres. And they so they escaped. For phobia. So yeah, Sean Davidson, an Australian bloke, managed to escape a problem that is a tiny. Little I know I'm like crawling. Through like how would you? Move your body through that. I don't even know. I don't want to I think. The claustrophobic would just be horrendous. Yeah, but somewhat of my favorite here on the 10th of December in 2017, so later that same year, two prisoners, Krishan Beasley, who was 32 and a 57 year old named Paul Anthony Hoffman, both U.S. citizens.

1:04:29 They allegedly they tried to escape. Unfortunately, Anthony was actually immediately captured afterwards. So they apparently they thought that they'd put a ladder up and just climbed over the wall, which is what the Indonesian people wanted you to believe. What they actually did, though, was they had carved a hole with a hacksaw in the roof and climbed through that to escape. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So but there was a massive manhunt for the other bloke, but he was eventually arrested the following year.

1:05:01 So yeah, I didn't quite, quite get. There, but I guess if you escape. You're on an. Island, Where are you going to go? So what was he in jail? For you think that would make him go, I'm escape. I'm going to escape jail. What do you think that he might have been for? Drug charges? But not just drug drug charges. He had all he had a possession of all of 5 grams of hashish on him. Wow. Yeah. I mean that that is the law there. Yeah, that is the law. And then the. Conditions of what you get input, get put in for what you've done are horrific to the degree of wanting to escape that badly.

1:05:34 Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. Yeah, as you said at the start, you've got to know the laws of the country you're travelling to and make you're making a choice then, especially if you're. Gonna do something illegal? Yeah. But even if you're not, you need to be aware of what you absolutely need to be aware of and protect yourself. That's it, Yeah. Oh. But. Hotel K No thanks, mate. No, thank you, God, no thank you. Right. So we're now at the trial, which was 3, roughly 3 months later. It started on the 28th of Jan in 2005.

1:06:07 Right, so. As you said, one, Yeah, sorry, just in. Terms of her legal team Yep. So obviously we had Lily who was have mixed accounts on of whether how great she was. Well, I don't know that she. Was that great? I've heard she didn't really like Chappelle. No. Well, the thing was in and we. Have to say this too, That. So when this all occurred, the Bolognese people hated Chappelle? Yeah, they called her the ganja. Queen. Queen. Yeah, they were protesting outside of her of the the courts and things like that, that, you know, that she was a awful person for what she had done for bringing in this marijuana to their country.

1:06:43 So I wonder whether there was, I mean, she was a local that whether she true she she too hated Chappelle and didn't really want to help her. But yeah, so that was interesting. But there there was her sidekick Vasu as well, who he literally had like business cards for every I know a business. Under the sun an. Engineer a real estate agent? Hold on, what am I today? What can I give? You today? Which one? Of my business cards shall I find I love it it's. So good, I think. That's hilarious, but the other person that came on board too for her with her legal team was Ron Bakia.

1:07:15 Now he's a millionaire from Australia who decided to fund her fund. Her legal aid? He also put in kicked in about 100 grand for it was $1,000,000 reward for any information helping them out. So in terms of her court case and he kicked in 100 grand for that. They never raised any other money that went towards that, which is interesting, but he did pay for probably around about 200 grands worth of legal representation for her. But what he also did was registered trademarks for chappellecorby.com. Chappelle Corby.

1:07:47 Dot com, dot AU and also Chappelle Corby Inc. You know, he had grand plans for movie deals, book deals, all those sorts of things that I think he was hoping to profit off of afterwards. There was also rumours that they were her and Chappelle were having him and Chappelle were having an affair but he was he's just a bit of A and that she got pregnant to. Him. Oh, well, that. Yeah, there's that. That one too, yeah. There's so many unusual rumours. But he was also, he also accused the prosecution of of asking them to bribe them.

1:08:21 Yeah. Which? Him coming out with saying that whether it's true or not, it it could have, I think it oh, it absolutely had an. Effect had some effect. On outcomes and things, because, you know, to say that publicly and accuse people of asking for bribes, he said it about really something you should say. He said it about the judge, too. Yeah, that's right. He said that the judge said that if he gave him money, he would reduce her sentence. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's. What he says, that's what. Yeah, he says.

1:08:48 Abused that, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, her legal team was very interesting. Yeah, but there was one other guy wasn't there too. I can't think of his name. Someone who's a little bit better, I'm not sure, but the other. Thing that Chappelle did around this time is she wrote a letter to our then Prime Minister John Howard asking for some help and support. And he basically, he wrote, he wrote it back and basically said, I wish you all the best and I really hope that the right judgement comes for you. But you need to understand that if we had a, an, an international prisoner in our system accused of such things, we wouldn't be very happy if that country wanted to interfere with our judiciary.

1:09:36 And so I basically, I wish you all the best. Thoughts and prayers to you. Which I mean it sounds. Awful, but I do. I'm not a massive founder on Howard, but I hope you have to agree with what he said in that we can't get involved in another country's legal system. Yeah, but then like. I I think that too. But then I feel like if I'm in Chappelle's shoes and I am, you know, and I am innocent, yeah, I would want the support of my country. That's where. I know I have to, I know understand that he had information, Yeah, that pub that the public probably didn't too.

1:10:09 Yeah. Which, yeah, because? You could probably push AFP agents or potentially you know that I'm sure they're, I'm sure given the good relationship between Indonesia and Australia, it wasn't great at this point. Oh, that's true, actually. Yeah, that is. True. Yeah, The relationship between the two countries wasn't great. It was. It was coming off of the Bali bombings. Yeah, it was the Bali 9. The Bali. No, the Bali 9 happened just after this. Literally during her trial. Yeah. OK, so. Oh, so even though it could have actually been happening at the time, Yeah.

1:10:45 So that definitely made a difference. Absolutely, yeah. OK. Yeah, OK. Oh my God. All right, so the defense for Chappelle. So as you said, she's guilty until proven innocent. So it's up to her defense to come up with with reasons that she didn't do this. So they had several points that they they put across. The first one is why didn't she lock the bag? If she had of put the marijuana in herself, why didn't she lock it? Yeah, and keep it safe? I think it's a fair, fair call. All of the other 3. Suitcases were locked with padlocks because back in the day there weren't that many of the ones that we have now that are built in.

1:11:23 People had padlocks. There was no padlock on the boogie board case. The fact that the marijuana was in a clear plastic bag, if you're trying to conceal it, why wouldn't you wrap it in darker colour? Maybe try and hide it under something or in something or put clothes around it? Why would she risk the death sentence knowing she'd travelled to Bali I think 5 or 6 times before this, knowing the you know, she knew and her sister lived there. They knew the laws, they knew how harsh they were. She had no criminal record, nor did Mercedes or weigh on.

1:12:01 Chapelle didn't have a criminal record in Australia or in Indonesia. The Queensland Police and Federal Police had no intelligence on her stating that she'd been involved in any drug activity directly. Directly. Yep, the price of the marijuana. So this is the one that. Really. Kind of gets me in Brisbane at the time. Marijuana of this. Quality, because it was very high quality. Marijuana apparently was going for $4000 per half kilo, so it's about $32,000 street value. In Sydney it would have been double that, so about 60 ish $1000.

1:12:44 In. Bali it would have been about 40% of the 32,000 so it would have been worth about 15 lbs. So worth less. Taking it over there. Taking it over there. So why? Would you take that over when it was supposed to come out in? Sydney, Sorry. Yeah, well, yeah. Maybe that's where it was meant to stop.

1:13:04 Yeah, so the, so the. Yeah, so the legal team, they put what they had to do was put across another possibility of what had occurred. So what they decided to put forward was this fact of that baggage handlers were domestically transporting marijuana from like Brisbane Airport to Sydney Airport and there. And that's where that should have come out in Sydney. And unfortunately, for whatever reason, with the baggage handlers, it didn't come out in Sydney that day. Like. So what they're claiming is that Chappelle had no idea, as we've mentioned earlier, that the AFP had already identified that unknowingly people were being used as mules to bring to transport drugs regularly, different drugs and so.

1:13:45 What they were claiming. Was that, yes, this marijuana had been placed by a baggage handler not known to Chappelle Corby whatsoever, placed that into her bag when she checked it in at Brisbane. That had taken the flight down to Sydney and a baggage handler in Sydney then should have taken that out of that bag in Sydney. However, for whatever reason, it didn't come out, so it continued on to Bali. And so when she's opened up, they've opened up the bag in Bali, this marijuana is there, which should never have been there was it should have come out in Sydney.

1:14:12 So, and there was then support of that from the AFP that, that, that was, you know, claims of these sorts of things happening. So there were some claims also by some that that was a, it was a completely fabricated story, you know, that they were putting together that there was no, no links to it anywhere. But there were there were certainly people coming forward saying no, there is the other bit of evidence they brought to the court was and a man by the name of John Patrick Ford. Yeah. So John Patrick Ford was a prisoner in Port Phillip Prison here in Melbourne who had overheard conversations in jail between two men, According to him, who had discussed the fact that they were they knew about the drugs being put into Corby's bag.

1:14:56 They stayed. He reckoned that the drugs were actually owned by name by, by men of the name of Ron Vegan, Sir, I think that's how you spell say it. And that he owned it. But he the, but John Patrick Ford would never name the person who was actually meant to take the drugs out in Sydney. But from what he Yeah, he kept that information to himself. Apparently he knew it, but he wasn't willing to give it up. But he reckoned there'd been a mix up for whatever reason and that yes, it had been left in her bag and therefore the marijuana ended up in Bali.

1:15:28 He was already in jail on some charges that were being ready to be heard. So his testimony, I guess he was, he was actually already. Convicted. He was convicted, but he also. Had waiting sentencing. Yeah, waiting sentencing. So the. Indonesians basically discredited anything he had to say because he was a convicted drug. Smuggle drug. He was. Yeah, like convicted for some kind of drug charge himself. Yes. Yes. So it actually meant nothing. He flew, they flew him to Denpasar, to Bali for this, for the trial, and it went nowhere.

1:16:03 Nowhere. No, it didn't really help. This is the thing where I. Yeah. So the stuff that I feel like presented in in court, it was enough to show reasonable doubt. I really, I do honestly believe that shadow of a doubt. In my mind, if I was a juror, I mean, yeah, if I were a juror, yeah, there is no way I would convict. No chance whatsoever. Based on everything we know at the moment, yes. However. In Bali, unfortunately at the time and the judge that was presiding over this, in their mind she was guilty from the get go and that they didn't prove enough that she was innocent which.

1:16:42 Is really really. Hard, I think that that is yeah, it's really tricky what went on. Yeah, in that respect, their their legal, legal system is different to ours. Yep. At the end of the day. So 28th of April 2. 1005, Chappelle gives a final plea in her case and she actually addresses the judges directly in that. And at the end of that she says I am innocent in Indonesian. Yeah. The verdict came out about a month later on the 27th of May in 2005. I remember this so clearly. Yes. It was broadcast live on Australian TV and in New Zealand as well, I believe.

1:17:23 Yeah. And she was obviously found guilty of importing narcotics into Indonesia. They sentenced her to 20 years in jail and a $13,875 fine or an additional six months in jail if she couldn't, if she couldn't pay the fine. So my God, I, I just remember thinking at the time, I actually, I remember at the time thinking, Oh my God, imagine being her. Oh. Absolutely sickening. Yeah, to hear that you know that read out, she was not in a good place mentally by this stage at all to then have that confirmed for her.

1:18:02 I mean, we have to also say she could have gotten the death penalty. That was absolutely on the table originally. They had spoken and worked out between the lawyers etcetera that that ended up being taken off the table. But life in prison equates to 20 years in in Indonesia. So she did get long maximum. She got the maximum, so it's it was pretty hard to take, especially when you look at as well. If this exact same situation had occurred in Australia, the kinds of sentencing she would have received would have been more likely around about 6-7 years maximum, probably parole after like two or three years.

1:18:44 With that quantity, it could have been less. It's would have been significantly different outcomes. Guilty, I'm saying, you know, in comparison to a guilty either side, let alone the fact of there being reasonable doubt being presented within the courts. It was here in Australia. So as you said, the burden of. Proof as well, because the burden of proof is reversed. That's right. So they would have had to have proven that she was guilty. Yeah, they would have proven that there. Was her fingerprints on her etcetera, which would be, I would have say it was definitely hers.

1:19:14 Yeah, yeah. So. I think there was a lot of uproar at the time. Yeah. Talkback radio blew up. Oh, man. There were protests at all of the Indonesian embassies and then, you know, at the prison as well. People were showing up, like, especially foreign nationals. Yeah. Who were? Living in Bali at. The time expats and whatnot were at the prison just protesting, it obviously didn't do anything, but people felt very, very strong to be honest. I think it actually. Pushed the Indonesian government the other way in terms of being hard being.

1:19:47 Harsher with it and the. More people, more. The more Australians were saying you're wrong, yeah, the more they were going to double down. I almost think it did worse things for her. Yeah, yeah, she she. Suffered a great deal of mental ill health while she was in prison. Completely bloody understandably, Yeah. She spent some time in hospitals, which they had to absolutely. Like her family had to fight to get her into hospitals and to get her treatment because she was suicidal. Yeah. And she was according.

1:20:21 So her dad died while she was in prison, Yes. And Mercedes said this was sort of a bit of a catalyst. She went into this catatonic 2008. That he passed away, she went into this catatonic. State Mercedes had to go in and feed her every day, bathe her, brush her hair. She couldn't do anything really for herself. She wasn't even talking. So they really, you know, you can imagine how much that affected her day-to-day. She did a couple of stints in hospital and it was just, you know, it was horrible.

1:20:51 There was, do you remember the photos of when she was in hospital for one of the stints? And I think she she was kind of starting to do a bit better. And then the photos, you'll remember them for sure of her in the hair salon. Yes, so and then the grainy. Supposed photos that came out of her being in a nightclub In a nightclub, not. True. Yeah, this is it. The hair. The hair was true. The hair. Was she was at the hospital salon, they thought, you know, at the end of her treatment, give her a little perk.

1:21:17 And then the fallout from that basically sent her back to Square 1 and she was sort of back trying to similar to. What happened during the trial, which we spoke about, she, they were accused that she collapsed on one of the days in court, literally like, and when you think about the conditions she was living in under, let alone the fact the stress, the stress of what she was going through, plus the conditions that she was then living in. Yeah, she was very, very unwell. So she collapsed in Court One day and the media jumped on it and went oh, she's pregnant, she's pregnant, which is just fuck off, fuck off.

1:21:50 Like I just that sensationalism journalism is so and I think it's pretty dead these days. I find in general. There was a lot of that around, but. This time it was. It was. Really bad around her there was because then there were these photos that came out. They were very grainy photos of supposedly her and Mercedes hanging out at nightclubs and that people were saying they spotted her and stuff in Bali. They were going over and spotting her there. But there was also guards who were letting people pay money to go into the jail.

1:22:15 Yeah, to see her, but she was an animal. Oh, an animal at a zoo. Yeah, it was horrible. I I remember just saying. I remember friends at the time who were going to Bali going, oh, we might go visit Chappelle and I'd be like, are you for real? Like, that's just gross. I remember. Back in the day, Kate Langbroek was on Nova. That's and do you remember she went over there, She went and she went and took her like like sanitary products, like literally, you know, bags and bags of sanitary products are that same.

1:22:42 I think something that is actually and she needed film it. She didn't know do it for radio, nothing like that, but she did do it to her. Radio because she spoke about it whereas you could have just done that under the you know and done that without any of that but then there. Were people who were doing it to get photos to sell to Woman's Day or to sell to the tabloids or whatever? Yeah, because we everyone was so fascinated by this story. So like. Gross. The media around that, yeah, I really couldn't handle.

1:23:09 I can't handle that. No, it's, it's horrible. I felt for her in that. Sense because it is she's like she's like she's an animal in a zoo. It's really is just disgusting. It's horrible throughout this. So obviously she appealed the the the sentencing and the outcome, which was denied at one stage, though one of her peels did get through enough that she did get a five year reduction on her sentence. But being Indonesian legal system, they eventually actually overturned that and set and gave her back the full 20 years, which was horrific.

1:23:43 But there was a slight reason as to why they did that. Do you know about this? So there was some photographs that appear that came forward and there's a belief that these photographs are what they came out of this at a time where this appeal had been one that she lost five years off of her sentence. And then the at the time these, this judge got wind of the fact that these photos that had come to to surface. So he reneged on that five years and gave it back and went, no, fuck it, you can have the full 20 years now.

1:24:13 These photos that were found were of Chapelle Corby with a known convicted drug smuggler, an Australian bloke who had come over to Bali to see and to see her. So supposedly he came and saw her twice, one being during the trial he was there. He was also then in Carabacan visiting her and spent time with her during the trial time as well and photos were taken of the two of them. These were These photos were then were found years later in his residence by police who were arresting him and charging him with drug smuggling of none other than marijuana.

1:24:56 Very good friend of his dad's a known A. Known associate of his father's. Father, he lived in SA. So when you put it in context of that, I can I can somewhat understand originally when I heard what an asshole act like to give her, you know, this little, you know, carrot of like 15 years now instead of 20. Like that's to me almost because what breaks my heart with her with this 20 years stuff, it was I'll never have children, all right, I'll never be able to have a life like that. She says that taking 15 years, taking five years off of that or could potentially give her back a window of having that.

1:25:33 And so I, I really thought that was awful. But when I kind of went, oh, wait, there's maybe something to this as to why that five years was put back on. Yeah. Again, the length of time was more than it should have been in the sense of what we know of Australia. But sure, in their world, their judicial system, yeah, that's what was going on there. Yeah, yeah. He never visited her again after that though. No, well, he was in jail. Yeah, is he? Still in jail to this day. Actually, I don't know. Well, no, we're 20 years down the track.

1:26:04 Probably not. Possibly not. I'd have to look that up, but I've I've got some that up either info on him.

1:26:12 So basically from there, though she appealed in 2010, she ended up putting in a letter to the president of Indonesia for for clemency. It took two years for him to respond, which that would just, you would just think, well, you sort. Of think, OK, well. That's not worked either. Like I'd just be, I guess, sitting back on it thinking, well, there we go. That's, that's that revenue down as well. When randomly this letter appeared from the president and what he actually said at that point. So at this point in 2012, when they received the letter, the response to the letter for clemency, well, she, because she claimed it on humanitarian grounds, because her mental health was declining quite severely.

1:26:54 So as we said, 2008, when her dad died, it really started to climb massively. And so we're looking now at 2012, she was not good. She hadn't recovered. She didn't recover, certainly not 2000. And 10, when she sent the letter, I think Mercedes, you know, really supported her in putting that letter together and sending that off to get some some assistance. So, yeah, two years later, finally got a response from the president granting her a five year cut to her original 20 year sentence. Now their system is so different over there that that doesn't sound like much, but what happens over there is at various points of the year you can get reductions in your sentence.

1:27:34 Yes. So she had already received well in the first year in, oh, sorry, not first. In 2006, she received a reduction of, oh gosh, what, three months, three months reduction. However, that got overturned because she was found to have a mobile phone. I didn't know that. Yeah. So that three months. Didn't I knew my first sentence, then got yeah taken? Away, but I didn't know why. Yeah. So you were having. A mobile phone, Yeah. So, OK, so she lost that in terms of getting that reduction, but each year from that point, oh, my God, then you'd be on your best behaviour, wouldn't you?

1:28:08 Oh, God. Yeah. So they have independence days in Indonesia. And on each of those she was granted, first of all 2008, four months in 2009, five months, 2010 and 2011, she received six months for each of those years. And then in addition to that, she was granted a further 45 days reduced from her sentence just because it was Christmas at one stage. So number of reasons why she got reductions in that sentence that meant that plus that extra five years was all helping to knock off those those years from her sentence.

1:28:40 So then in September of 2016, her sentence was meant to expire, but she was granted parole on the 7th of February in 2014. That's right. So unfortunately that was, I believe, a Friday, though, which meant that she then had to spend the weekend in jail because they had to receive it by post. Yeah. The parole letter had to be at the prison by post, Yeah. They couldn't just walk it down from the courts or anything like that? Not far, no. They had to. Had to arrive by mail before that they would process it and so that she had to wait all weekend before the the mail would come on the Monday.

1:29:18 So on the 10th of February, finally she was released on parole. The conditions of the. Parole were pretty strict. She had to stay in Bali until 20/17. She had to register, obviously, with the parole board and meet all of their criteria. She had to stay with family. Her whereabouts needed to be known at all times, so she was going to be doing something different from a usual routine. She had to declare it. Yeah, all of those things I guess are completely fair and they're the types of conditions that are in imposed on our parolees as well in Australia parole ish thing that it.

1:29:58 Wasn't just parole, actually, it was the entire time she was in jail. So she had to have a guarantor for her prison sentence. So as we I mentioned about the escapees of Krobakan, if she escaped jail, her guarantor would have to take her place in jail. Oh wow. Yeah, so do you know who? Her guarantor was was it Mercedes? Nope. Who? Mercedes Husband. Oh yeah. I know he paid. So in order to actually get parole, she had to pay that fine to that 13,800 whatever dollar fine. Yeah, I know he paid that. Yeah.

1:30:32 And in order for her to then be able to be released, I didn't realise he was her guarantor. So he was her guarantor all. The way through and including in the parole. So actually Mercedes and him were separated, Yes, When she left jail, yeah. I mean, you can imagine the stress. This would put on every member of the family, absolutely. And Mercedes, they wanted to move. Back move to Australia and then that never happened. Like it's upset their entire life of what their plans were. Oh, it would be really impactful.

1:30:59 Absolutely. I mean, and Mercedes would have spent most of her life taking care of what was going on For for for Chappelle. She did, yeah. She went everyday. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so he. Was guarantor for her throughout all of this and had no way of changing that person. So even though the and the and the courts had said the fact of their marriage brought together or not does not break that that guarantor. So he remained guarantor right through. So he he, he sort of had to live under these same similar conditions in that not that he had the, you know, had to report or anything, but he couldn't just leave the country randomly or, you know, things like he he needed to be kept track of as well to make sure that he could be there to step in for her at any point, which I mean, whoa, what an amazing thing to do for your sister-in-law.

1:31:45 That's a huge thing that he's put himself through. So really well done to him, absolutely. Absolutely. I kind of understand the decision for that because Mercedes, I guess she's supporting Chappelle. She's also got children of her own. I guess it makes sense to make him the guarantor as opposed to her maybe every other family. Were in Australia, I was going to say and then she could. If needed need be, could take the kids home to Australia or whatever. Do wonder whether there was a. Stipulation that it needed to be someone who was who held an Indonesian passport and maybe Mercedes didn't OK too.

1:32:21 I don't. Know I don't I'm. Not sure, but yeah, that's that's a huge thing to do. Yeah, yeah. So in 2017, her parole in Bali has ended and she returns home to Australia. So this is on the 27th of May in 2017. Yeah, when she left. Bali, right? Apparently, she asked the corrections division. Would she be allowed to? Enter for site seeking Yes. Sightseeing. Yep. In the future? Yep. What? I'm sorry, would you want to go back? Well, I've had her interviewed. Fairly recently, yeah. And she thinks she might go.

1:33:00 She thinks she might be ready. Oh no. I would never go back. Again, Oh, carry on luggage only just I just I would never no I I'm. Sorry, I would I would never. I'll just have no interest. I would not honestly in honest to God would have no interest in going back. No, it would be traumatic. Yeah, that getting on that flight, even the the other she. Did talk about though, the relationship she'd made with certain women in prison as well. She and she had a very long time. Boyfriend. She had a boyfriend there and and.

1:33:31 I think to this day, are they still together? No, they broke up. They. Broke up today so. Her, I think. She I think they may. Have actually been broken up before she came back to Australia. OK, Yeah, I. Thought maybe that might have been a reason for her wanting to return. Actually, no, Because he visited Australia. No, I'm pretty sure they were still together when she came home. I don't know. Yeah, I think so. OK. Pretty sure they're broken up there from. What I was I think they have now. Yeah, yeah.

1:33:54 But. He So he was in prison when they met. Yeah. And he spoke fluent English, which was one of the greatest things that she like. What sparked the relationship between them? Because she actually had someone she could talk to easily, but he was in jail because he had lit up like a cigarette or not a cigarette, even like a he'd smoke some marijuana on the beach and been arrested. So and he was doing a fairly hefty sentence sentence. For that. So they were obviously bonded over the fact of like the sort of sentencing they'd received for fairly minor.

1:34:21 Well, him also, in that sense, minor crime. Yeah. But he, he seemed they were pretty solid, like, for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. All right. Well, should we talk about where she is now? Well before we. Do OK just wanna. Touch on some. Of the alternative kind of theories on what, Yeah, Good, good move. Yeah. So there's, I mean, obviously there's a couple of things where people sort of went, no, this doesn't make sense, you know, of what's going on. So when you look at it on the surface, yeah.

1:34:50 Is it that she they was baggage handlers in Sydney and Brisbane who would running this drug run thing and she had no idea whatsoever what was going on or was there a little bit more known to it than that? So there. So Kobe's father, Shapo, Kobe's father did have links to people and a long. Standing drug history, yes, so. He had a very close associate who he had known back when he was working in that open cut mine first met him there. They were they lived in similar area when they were living when they lived near near each other when they were working on this mine and they were very close apparently and when they as they would work, they would well they.

1:35:44 They. Finished that job at very similar times. One of the the other bloke, he went and bought a big block of land down in central QLD off of the Bruce Hwy. and weirdly enough, two years later Michael Corby purchases a block of land right next door. Now the guy who lived. Opposite them on in these blocks of lands, he will say no, he was actually no, he's on the other side of that block of land actually, sorry he was the next door neighbor on the other side yes. So I think Michael. Had the block in the middle.

1:36:16 No, no, no. It was that. No, there was he was, there was Michael on one end this. And then there was the phrase, yeah, the friend. Yeah. And then this neighbor. OK, OK. So the neighbor. Who's has said they were Titus thieves? Is that the saying? Like sickest thieves? I'm like, oddly enough, so they yeah, they crime besties. Very, very. Well, crime besties maybe. So the guy that he lived next door to was. He was arrested for growing hydroponically grown marijuana high quality, high quality marijuana in the raid that occurred on his property in September 2004.

1:36:58 Chappelle Corby went to Bali in. Is it October 2? 1004, Eighth of October a. Month later. She went to Bali. Not even. Yeah, couple of weeks so. In that raid, they found the police found 5 kilos of high quality hydropolically grown marijuana in vacuum sealed plastic bags. Same as what? So I think it's worth. Noting that it was space bag branded bags right in both. Instances. Yeah, they're both the same brand. I mean readily available. You can buy them at Big W, you can buy them anywhere. But I'm just saying, is that a coincidence?

1:37:42 Is that a coincidence? That, you know, less than a month later, a very similar sized package of marijuana, hydroponic marijuana that was by photographic evidence able to be shown to be hydroponic marijuana, was found in her boogie board bag. So. Interesting. Very, very, very interesting how that has played out. Now other people have also come forward, specifically a person by the name of Jodie Powers. Jodie Powers. Now Jodie Powers. Is was a friend of Mercedes, I'd say more so than yeah than Chapelle, yeah.

1:38:23 However, she went over to Bali and was supporting, called Bishoppelle at the time and everything when it was all going on. However, she does claim that there are very strong links in the family to all these sorts of things. So she's been interviewed on A Current Affair today tonight. Probably worth mentioning she was paid. For her interviews, I'm just absolutely that. Yeah, yeah. Totally, absolutely, very much worth worth saying but she first hand so she grew up with these girls. You know, she knew the family.

1:38:53 No, no question around that. And so basically she was she says that not only had Schapelle Corby outright said that on a number of occasions she had smuggled marijuana overseas and Interstate, so had Mercedes. So very interesting what her take was it on? And she she also said, I know that Schapelle Corby did drugs. I've seen her take ecstasy, speed, cocaine. She accuses her of being a dabbler of many drugs of herself, whether that makes you a drug smuggler or not. I don't believe that that's no, I don't think that actually equates to anything else.

1:39:35 Yep. Also, we're saying so Jodie Powers has done 3 polygraphs, one of which read that she was lying too, came back that she was not. Take that as you will well. It's. Inadmissible. Yeah, absolutely. Completely. Yeah. But so Mercedes apparently, according to her, had admitted to smuggling drugs concealed within her body, as well as Chapelle admitting that she had smuggled to Bali marijuana in the past two other times, as was what she stated, Yes, she. So she had a very clear story of what she'd been told.

1:40:12 It was, you know, enough. You know, it was a lot of detail. Detail to it. But some say too much. Detail. Yeah, yeah. Dicks say too much. Detail, but yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there's there's family links. And. There's rooms, there's all sorts of things that go on here that it makes me believe that, look, as we said, beginning guilty or innocent is one side of this. Punishment is another. Absolutely. I think that part of me. Does go down the track of. I think that she may have known, I think the drugs meant to come out in Sydney, yeah.

1:40:44 I honestly believe that she thought she was the financial. Reasons and Sydney. Yep, and the. Financial. Reasons are like, that says everything to me. Why would you take 32? What? What could have been $32,000 in Brisbane, what could have been over 60 grand in Sydney and take it to Bali where it, where it might be worth like 1516 grand? Yeah, and you're risking your life and you're risking your life. 20 years in jail, like, I mean, how stupid are you if that's the case? I really do think you're an idiot if that's really what your goal was.

1:41:14 Yeah, I do think that there's also like, so the person who had the photographs with Corby and was that was found with them in SA, it was a very known associate of her father's. Yes, I can name him too. I can't remember what his name was. I feel like maybe. We don't name him no, OK. Too late.

1:41:33 So he he was there was so a drug run that is supposed, you know, that supposedly was occurring was between Brisbane and SA, Yes, which is what many people believe. And there was lots of rumours around the fact that Corby had run that one on many occasions. And we've spoken about that exact drug, drug run being done by other people absolutely on this podcast. So that's a known traffic area for those drugs. And there's there's definitely some links there of possibility, that possibility that the family was involved in those sorts of things.

1:42:05 Yeah. What do we have proof of that? No. Yeah, but there's enough there. I think there's enough stuff that you kind of go look, I I think that there was some a level of guilt here. Did she deserve even what she got in the nine years in that those conditions in that Bali prison? I don't believe so. And I do have a lot of empathy for her in that. Agreed. But. You do reap. What you sow True too. There's a book written by investigative journalist Eamonn Duff. It's called Sins of the Father. And he is absolutely, Yeah.

1:42:39 Convinced that the drugs in Chappelle's bag belonged to Michael. Yeah. And so to her father, to Michael Corby. The book says that he, that Michael regularly bought marijuana from SA, like from the South Australian drug syndicate, and transported them throughout Australia and internationally as well. So look, I, I don't know, I haven't read the book myself. I've just read excerpts that I was able to access online. But, you know, he's, he's pretty adamant in that side of things. So I think there's so much information out there.

1:43:13 At the end of the day, there's probably only a handful of people in the world who actually know the truth. Yeah. And I'm sure it lies in this. I'm sure it lies in there somewhere. Yeah. And I don't think that we're, you know, everyone's all innocent or all guilty in, in this either. So yeah, it's really interesting. Another one that did. Come out as well, which I don't know whether this is linked or not to the fact of like what Chappelle did, but her younger brother, I believe it was a younger brother yes it was it was James, not the other brother, not Michael, not Michael I. Don't believe?

1:43:43 Yeah. He was not long after. This was definitely James. Yeah, he was. He broke into a known drug smugglers house and he was, he was actually put under 8 charges I believe and spent about four years in jail for what he did there. He claimed at 1 stage that was to try and was targeting someone he believed who knew what what happened to Chappelle and trying to get evidence to help her out which I don't know. He stole drugs from their. House, Yeah. Yeah, that's not helping. Chappelle. So I don't know, I mean, part of me is probably like, I reckon maybe the family did know who was involved in all of this with them and maybe he was targeting a particular person.

1:44:23 But not to like get evidence to get her out of jail was to go fuck you. You screwed my sister over because you didn't take the drugs out in Sydney like you're supposed to. But I mean, look, if you're relying. On someone in Sydney things marrying up and like how the this is what. I and also the Mara. One who was in a clear plastic bag. If you were going to be taking drugs in and out of bags, package it a bit more discreetly. People, this is it. But that's. Where there's a very strong link of that that vacuum sealed bag.

1:44:48 I mean exactly. It's only one idiot in the world that would do that surely? Like, you know, you would think so. But oh, maybe not. Drug world, I'm not involved. I don't know. But I mean, and because then I think in the in the end of all of this, we also come down to the fact of in many other parts of the world, I'll say unfortunately not Australia so much, but definitely not Indonesia, that marijuana is legalized and these sorts of things wouldn't be an issue in those countries. And so your opinion on her taking 4 kilos of marijuana, I mean, I don't dare say 4 kilos would have been personal to use.

1:45:20 I'll HD hero. But you know, people's opinions on marijuana fluctuates in terms of whether or not this is really that bad of a thing that she's done. I certainly, I mean my personal opinion, I don't, I don't begrudge anyone a bit of that every now and then I guess. But yeah, I mean to to. Each their own, but but it is illegal and it's illegal in Australia. That's it. And it's illegal in Indonesia. So at the end of the day, choices were made whether it was by Chappelle or not, whether she was she knew about it or not.

1:45:49 Yeah, somebody has made a decision to transport an illegal material. Yep. And these were the. Consequences. Yeah, Yep. Anyway. Where is Chappelle now? Oh this is my favorite part I'm so excited. OK. So first of all, yeah, Chappelle is now a clock maker. Well, she's not now, actually. She's had to stop making clocks. Why no? I'm not. I couldn't. Find out why. But this is the thing in one place I actually read that she had to stop making clocks and not not like, you know, just decided not to make clocks anymore.

1:46:27 But I'd love to check them out. Oh God, of course I. Checked. I would have ordered one if I could have. Got the one but I wouldn't have because they're 100. And $99.00 each. Wow I'm sorry but I want one that says on the back of it signed by her doing time with Chabot. It's the best like. She's just milking this roll. It's worth I really liked because you can go onto her Instagram page and there's lots of designs there. My favorite one was the one that on the front of it on the clock face. Yeah, it says fresh out of Fox in a Really.

1:46:57 Beautiful. So Emma in a really beautiful. I was actually. Thinking I might buy it for Michelle for a 40th. Yes, how many fucks have you? Got left to give Michelle none. Sorry, do we? Have any left? No, sorry, there aren't any left to give. Beautiful epoxy resin, I mean. Look that beautiful, you know, I don't know if I'd put one in my house, but that's just my different, different style. The beach ones like if you had a beach. House, that would be right, yeah, but the. And the fact that you had a.

1:47:24 Clock made by Chappelle, I feel well, that would be a real talking point in in your house All right well, I'm sorry if you wanted one No looked like on her Instagram page that there was some maybe she's fucking. Running. But I read somewhere she had to OK, but I don't. I don't know. I don't know. She also did. A body board bag ad. Good on it. Now would that be profiting from crime though? Well, this is this. Is a fine line. Fine line. Because she did. Also write a book. During her time in prison.

1:47:57 So you know what? Happened with the the funds from that that all went to Mercedes husband, yes as well, which I mean, I dare say maybe that was thanks for guarantor, thanks for yeah. Doing all he. Did maybe sold over 100,000? Copies in its first release. Yeah, yeah, and she's re released. It with after she you know that when she got back to Australia. Yeah, she'd already served out. Of parole and all of that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah. But you're not allowed to benefit from proceeds, proceeds of crime.

1:48:28 So there I know the AFP definitely looked into whether or not she was profiting. From it. But I mean, of course she was profiting. From it, if it went to Mercedes, as if Mercedes, well, didn't go to Mercedes it. Went to Mercedes husband when they were and they were divorced. Yeah, but was he not then? Giving them the money, quite possibly because. There was something else that I read. Oh, who was it? There was something else that she was doing and it wasn't She didn't get paid for it. Rosalie got paid for it.

1:48:53 Yeah, yeah. And so there's. All avenues. So yeah, like, yeah, you. Can't tell me she's not profiting. No. Yes, but then how else is she meant to live her life? Like she's so infamous she couldn't just probably go and work at Cotton? Well, maybe nowadays she could. Nah, probably not. She's still so wrecking. Well, to be honest, take on her. Beauty stuff. I mean, I'd go get my hair done by Chappelle just for the chat. Like, Oh yeah, Tommy girl, yeah. Give a tea, give it to me. Yeah, you wouldn't mind sitting in her chair.

1:49:20 For a few extra hours, no. I had a. Conversation for sure, yeah. And then the. Final thing that she's doing well, wait before you go, OK? Go sorry, because the other one she was she released a pop song. Oh yes, gotta listen to that. Yeah, but we might insert here. Yeah. What that song was, do we, should we play it, play a little bit, play it for the people? Because it is absolutely. Or I mean, some people loved her, apparently, but people loved it. Because of what it is, not because of the. It's not like they were.

1:49:50 She wasn't going to win an Aria. Oh well, not with. This. So Are you ready? I am more than ready. It is sunny. I have the fun trees,

1:50:21 I'm in QLD. I love it and. It's sunny, she also. But she also did some like SAS that show SAS as well which dancing with. The dance with the stars, which? I I don't watch dancing styles. Do you watch dancing styles? No, because someone needs to tell me she has to have done a dance to like blaming on the boogie. Oh, don't. Just it's not. Like a give that would actually. Be amazing. I have no idea. I didn't watch. I actually didn't look up any when I was researching. I didn't look up any clips either.

1:50:51 I'm sure they're out there, surely because. Another little like pop culture one I love is remember when Warner the cricketer lost his baggy green? Yes, in the sorry on like a Qantas flight, somehow his backpack had been taken out of his bag and he lost his baggy green, which in Australia that's like gold. Oh my God, so she commented on his Instagram post about this saying if anyone finds my baggy green hat, you know I want please get it back to me and Chappelle comment. Chappelle call me commented.

1:51:19 Oh Qantas, have I got a story for you that that's I love that humour. She definitely. Has a really good sense of humour. Oh, doesn't she? So the. Other thing that she's doing, I don't know if you guys have ever heard of this. It's a website called Cameo. And you can pay, yeah, you can pay celebrities of all different calibres. And it depends on the level of celebrity in terms of the financial contribution you need to make. But you can pay them to give a personalized message to a loved one for their birthday, or you can actually even get them to do like advertising for you and stuff like that anyway.

1:51:59 Two years ago. Peter's birthday, producer Pete's birthday, and his sister couldn't think of anything to get him, because what do you get for the man who's got everything? Well, so she decided. She thought of the one. Thing you needed? Absolutely and. Have we not dined out on this for years now? I love it. She bought him. A Chappelle Corby cameo, right? Oh, and did she deliver? Oh. Did she deliver So what you have? To do when you order a cameo is you have to put in like what you know, some things about the person, what they like just so that that you know, they the celebrity can make talking points.

1:52:38 Yes, I'm talking points. So Claire's put in things like, you know, Peter, like their dad loves Claire more than Peter. And by the way, Claire said his name is Udro, and that's what our nieces call Peter, Uncle Dro, Uncle Pedro, Udro. So that's you'll hear that and just all of the things that he's into and stuff like that. And then at the bottom she wrote. PS My brother thinks you're hot.

1:53:07 So guys. I'm gonna play it for you right now, Producer. Pete's gonna love that. You're publicizing this? Oh, he's. Oh yeah, Any publicity is good publicity. Isn't that right, Pete? Happy birthday to. You. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, You dro. Happy birthday to you. Hey, you dro. I think I'm saying that right. You dro. Hey, you Dro. Chappelle here. I have a birthday message to you from Crabbit, your sister. And so you're a ginger. I'm almost a ginger right now myself too. So anyway, happy birthday to you, your interest to our flying planes, whiskey tasting and anything related to computers and IT.

1:53:50 Oh gosh. I need you in my. Life by the way, your your dad likes private better than you, so take that as you will. And you like Hawaiian farmers and reverse parking? Hard to believe, but. There you go.

1:54:15 And you think I'm hot? Me and Chappelle. Oh yeah, right. I'm still single. I don't know. If you see me out in public, would you come and talk to me? Or would. You be one of these people. That go. Hey, I saw you out today. Yeah, well, Chappelle's human too. You can come talk to me. OK? If you see me out, you drove, come talk to me. And happy birthday to you. I hope you have a great day. Surrounded by all the people that. Love you, even your dad and and don't drink. Too much.

1:54:48 Most. Importantly, you. Drew, have a great life, so happy birthday to you. All the best. Oh God, OK fucking. Cold, sorry, it's first. It's of the reverse parking. I mean, you know, hats off to Claire for providing Primo content for that, but what Chapelle did with it brings me live. Just that she just read it off the piece. Yeah, read it off the piece of paper. You go and look at her like you can look her up on Cameo and all of her birthday messages are identical. Yeah, they're all. Yeah, I found one.

1:55:15 Online myself birthday to you happy. Birthday to you It's a birthday to. You. Is that the? Same. Yeah. Happy birthday to you now. Oh God, that that cost Claire 52 dollars. Oh wow. Of which $40 is paid directly to Chappelle. They get paid as soon as they've sent the video off. Claire reckons it took 40 minutes. Claire submitted. The thing 40 minutes later she had that video. Oh, that's incredible. Well, she needed the dough. Like a fair, fair car. Yeah, Yeah. Oh God, that's gold. Sorry, but. Nothing was a lie.

1:55:51 What Claire put in there. Oh God, I love the like real off of, you know, you're into what? You're into to and you think I'm hot just. Can just see her going maybe. I just it just gives me. Life, It's so funny. It's so good. Yeah, you could not have chosen a better gift for your brother. It's really gold. Yeah, I love. That and well done, Chappelle. Yeah, Oh, Chappelle. Nailed it. I mean, is she still? On coming home. Oh yeah, she's I. I checked yesterday. Oh yeah, you could get her to promote 2 crime besties.

1:56:26 Oh, that'd be worth 50 bucks. I think we almost said that maybe. She's guilty in this, so maybe she won't.

1:56:33 Oops. Sorry, I mean you've done. The time we did, we. I'd also say we don't really know. Like no we don't think that it's all her 100% if that. If that court hearing was in Australia, there was enough reasonable doubt she wouldn't. She wouldn't have gotten no way, no. No way. And if she did happen? To get guilty, it would have been far less, yeah. Yep, yes, All right, well, on that little note, we this episode has just gone on way too. I really have. I just realized far out. All right, stay. Curious crime besties.

1:57:02 Bye.