Episode 47 - The Claremont Serial Killer: Bradley Edwards

0:15 Welcome back to crime besties to another episode, episode 47 Meg

0:20 we're. Nearly at the. 50.

0:22 We've we're asking last week if people have got suggestions for

0:25 what they would like us to do for episode 50.

0:28 So keep them coming in. We'd love to get your opinion on

0:30 what you'd like to do for that number 50.

0:32 Yep, special, special one. It's gonna be a big one, so you

0:36 can DM us on Instagram or send us a message message through

0:40 Facebook, or you can send us an e-mail at

0:42 [email protected]. Yeah, we're looking forward to

0:47 hearing everyone's suggestions actually.

0:49 Yeah, really intrigued. What people?

0:50 I love the suggestion people coming because today's episode

0:52 is a suggestion one too, or from a from a listener.

0:56 We're gonna do the Claremont murders today.

0:58 Nudes. We're here.

0:59 We're ready for it. She's asked, I reckon, 100 times

1:01 at least. At least, at least so we've

1:04 actually got this. We are dedicated adding this one

1:05 to you. Dedicated to you.

1:07 Thank you for your suggestion. It look, this is this is such an

1:11 iconic case, I think in Australia.

1:15 So I was really looking forward to just re going through it.

1:19 I think we spoke last week about me telling you about the trial

1:24 podcast to do with this. So yeah, the trial podcast was

1:27 covered by the West Australian and I think it was like 7 news

1:31 media. They did a podcast together.

1:33 It was. Really well done, really good

1:35 podcast. Yeah, it was a daily podcast

1:37 that gave updates on the trial day by day, and it was

1:40 absolutely fascinating. I loved it at the time, as in

1:43 loved hearing all of the details.

1:44 So again, as we always say, if you want more detail, there's

1:49 places to go because you know, this is a 7 month trial in the

1:53 end. Yeah.

1:54 So there's a lot of detail that we won't be able to go through

1:57 today. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:58 We'll do our best, but that's. It.

2:00 So. To it before we get into it, how

2:03 has your week been? What have you been up to?

2:05 We're just having a chat before we clicked on and like just

2:08 getting frustrated with my substitutions in my Woolies

2:10 order. Yeah.

2:12 Yep, Yep. Who's had that happen?

2:13 Jeez, sometimes they get it spot on.

2:16 Yeah, and but today, not so much.

2:18 So one of my friends at work, Louise, she's my work wife

2:23 actually. She just does blanket, no

2:26 substitutions because she got to the point where she was like,

2:28 for God's sake, yeah, nothing they replace it with is what I

2:32 actually want. So I'd just rather not them not

2:34 replace it. Yeah, I was a real first world

2:36 problem, isn't? It I like the substitutions

2:38 because like I, I purposely order like say like the crap

2:40 brand that I know they're run out of a lot and then you always

2:43 get substituted with the better brand and you don't.

2:45 Have to pay for it? Yeah, that is a bonus.

2:47 Yeah. Now the certain things I do just

2:49 leave it on the occasion get a surprise.

2:51 Yeah, but and I've got fussy eaters, so I definitely do a lot

2:54 of do not substitutes on a number of items.

2:58 But today just was the simple things that have been stuffed

3:00 up. So we're just saying the pasta

3:02 and apple juice like you think that's fairly like, you know,

3:05 easy to substitute or to you know, to leave alone.

3:08 But to substitute macaroni mm hmm for what I ordered was

3:11 penne. MM hmm, I'm just I'm sorry, I'm

3:15 not OK with this. Your.

3:16 Finger out. Surely there would have been

3:17 penne in another brand? And if my kids ate macaroni then

3:20 we'd be fine. But they will not I'll.

3:23 Take your macaroni off you. Send it your way.

3:25 I'm sorry. I've got a packet in my pantry

3:28 at the moment that I've like attempted a number of times with

3:30 my kid, my kids, and they're not eating it.

3:31 So it's still sitting there. Yeah, OK.

3:33 Which I've got to get rid of. So like, I'm not putting a

3:35 bloody another packet in there to no sit there and look at me.

3:38 No. For you to throw out in five

3:40 years when it goes out of date Exactly.

3:42 Actually I was cleaning out the pantry the other day.

3:44 Now I like a neat and tidy pantry.

3:47 So it's it's a semi frequent clean out that I do or tidy up.

3:52 I found two packets, you know those like meal sort of sauce

3:59 packet things. So one of them was like AI think

4:02 it was like a beef stroganoff kind of sauce packet.

4:04 Yeah, it was a capricot chicken sauce packet.

4:08 And they were like used by I think it was 2018 or something

4:14 like that. So that would have where did

4:15 they come from? Where did it come from that

4:17 would have survived? You know, probably 10 pantry

4:21 clean out how. Many times have you looked at

4:22 that and gone, oh, that's still in date and put it back in there

4:24 because I'm the same. I do regular clean outs.

4:27 I'm I like a very neat pantry. But yeah, there's always a an

4:31 item where I go, geez, that is so out of date.

4:34 And you're like, well, how's that got past me previously?

4:36 I don't understand. Speaking of doing clean outs,

4:40 when my grandmother passed away, so she lived in the country she

4:44 lived in, very sort of remote, in a really remote area.

4:48 The nearest supermarket was about 30 to 40 minutes away by

4:53 car, Right? And she used to shop once a

4:55 fortnight and she would often bulk buy things and when they're

4:59 on special, she'd buy lots of them.

5:01 Yeah. And she had a massive chest

5:02 free, 2 chest freezers, actually, Yeah, yeah.

5:05 And anyway, when she passed away, Mum and we were up there

5:09 cleaning things out. And on this particular weekend,

5:12 Mum and Dad were up there and it was time to clean out the deep

5:16 freezer. And so they've they've turned it

5:19 off because a lot of the stuff in there was like quite old.

5:22 Oh yeah, they get to the bottom of the freezer now.

5:25 She works for the deep freezer. She passed away in 2016.

5:32 Oldest thing they found was a packet of frozen peas.

5:36 Oh yeah. That went out of date in 1992.

5:41 Oh. They also she also had like

5:45 blocks of frozen cheese. Yeah, like.

5:48 You know, a similar vintage like just.

5:52 That layer of like ice all in the bed, like, yeah, yeah, this

5:54 is. Before the frost free, Yeah,

5:57 yeah, freezers existed. Oh God, yeah.

5:59 So like, oh, that, that takes the cake.

6:01 How was it? Definitely needings for that

6:03 packet of peas in particular. I just hope she wasn't still

6:05 eating them. I'm sure she was.

6:08 I don't know that's the worst for the deep freezer like that.

6:10 I've got. I've got 1 and I love it, but I

6:12 have a whole system. I use boxes in rotating.

6:16 I rotate so I have a box where I keep all like the chicken in and

6:20 I box where I keep beef in. And then I have a box I keep the

6:23 frozen veggie in so that I grab out the whole box.

6:27 Yes when I'm looking for chicken or whatever I want out.

6:30 So that then like it's only that box that needs rotating,

6:35 rotating or like cleaning out so that when you're getting it out,

6:37 you're kind of seeing what's in there regularly rather than

6:39 going like, oh, that's that thing at the bottom that you

6:41 never see again. What else do you use your deep

6:43 freezer for? Ice, icy poles and ice creams

6:45 and stuff. OK yeah and then like and then

6:48 in the meats. Yeah and yeah yeah and then

6:50 like, yeah. Bread as well.

6:51 Sometimes if I get a loaf of bread, though, I just like

6:53 because my kids are fussy. Said it a million times.

6:56 One of them will only eat bakery bread.

6:57 The other one couldn't give a shit and I don't give a shit

7:00 like, you know, I'll buy the. So I always buy a loaf of bread

7:02 from the supermarket. Yep.

7:04 But then we'll buy bakery bread that's fresh, that gets used.

7:07 But then if I'm desperate, we can always grab out of the

7:09 freezer for the other two of us that will eat it.

7:11 Yeah. Yeah.

7:13 So, yeah, there's a fair bit of stuff I do keep in there like

7:15 that. OK Yeah.

7:16 Try and think what else I've. Never owned a deep freezer.

7:18 I. Love it, love it.

7:19 I feel like. If you keep it if the.

7:22 System keeps going, system work. Because otherwise, yeah, it's a

7:24 trap. I reckon they can definitely be

7:27 not great our. Freezer as part of our fridge is

7:30 quite big so we can it is big enough to like put your loaves

7:33 of bread and stuff. See my freezer I chose 'cause my

7:36 freezer actually has. So my fridge has the freezer at

7:38 the bottom. Yep.

7:39 And it's a double door 1 Yep. So I can have the bottom as

7:43 being double DoD freezer, or I can go one size side freezer and

7:48 one side like really nice chill drinks, you know, for my wine.

7:54 Ohh I love. So I ended up choosing that.

7:56 Yes, I'll go with the wine fridge on the.

7:58 Side because I've got the deep freezers.

8:00 Actually, I've got a deep freezer, so I was more than

8:04 willing to give up that other half of my freezer.

8:06 Yeah, to have it as a permanent fridge, have a deep freezer.

8:11 That's. Exactly right.

8:13 Yeah. So yeah, that was like, yeah, it

8:15 was no question about. So yeah, I love it.

8:20 Perfect. Very good.

8:22 Very good. Yes.

8:23 Yep, we're deep into all of the kids activities and winter

8:27 sports and stuff now. And this week the weather has

8:30 changed. Yeah, we kind of standing

8:32 outside the other day at What was I at?

8:35 So the footy. To be footy, yeah.

8:37 And the temperature just dropped all of a sudden.

8:39 Our friend said to me because I left earlier and she said to me

8:42 oh you left and literally I reckon the temp dropped 5° at

8:46 least at least so. Cold then and I was walking

8:48 home. I'm like, I'm free.

8:49 Oh yeah, you walked over too. Yeah.

8:52 Oh God. Horrible.

8:53 Yeah. So we're really getting into the

8:55 depths of winter and we're just coming up for like the weekend.

8:58 We always record on a Friday and I think this weekend's gonna be

9:01 disgusting. Like.

9:03 Yeah, wet. Cold, you know.

9:05 Yeah, thank God for basketball. Yes, yeah, yeah.

9:10 Some days though, with the footy, or at least it's wet.

9:13 Wet. Yeah.

9:14 Like that's what I'm dreading. Standing out in the rain as well

9:17 is the worst. It is.

9:19 It's horrible. Yeah.

9:19 Anyway. The things we do for these

9:22 children. Oh, exactly?

9:24 Yeah. Before we get started, I've just

9:26 got one other shout out today and that's to Josie.

9:29 She sent us a really lovely message about our school

9:32 shooting series and gave us some information on guns and the way

9:36 that it works and storing them. So apparently you can't in

9:40 Australia, you can't store your guns at a gun club, you have to

9:43 store them at home. So we didn't know that.

9:45 Thank you for letting us know. But she was saying that if you

9:49 do have guns in your home, it is it's right that you don't tell

9:52 your partner the combination to the safe, like to keep it safe

9:55 and you always keep your ammunition separate and stuff

9:57 like that. So thank you for that

10:00 information, especially in Australia, it was something that

10:02 we didn't know about. Yeah.

10:03 I wonder whether those sorts of things are in America at all.

10:06 Like do they have any of those sort of regulations around the

10:09 storage of the guns? Like it's all one, probably.

10:13 Yeah, she looks like. I don't know.

10:15 I don't. Seem to from what?

10:16 I don't know what movies tell me like.

10:18 But then you say, you hear people say like getting

10:21 something out of my gun safe. Yeah, maybe it's not.

10:24 But is that just because some people, yeah, do the right

10:26 thing? Or is there a regulation around

10:28 it like? If you know, please let us know.

10:30 Yeah. Otherwise we will try and

10:32 remember to look into it. Yeah, because I know you like,

10:34 you can have a license, but you know how to carry it around and

10:38 then you can have a license that does allow you to carry around.

10:42 But there's no, I don't think there's any checks in terms of,

10:45 I mean, just, well, actually it was, it was in that documentary

10:48 around Columbine where I think Kmart stopped selling certain

10:52 ammunition. But I don't think that's all

10:55 ammunition or anything. I know they still sell guns

10:56 though, but they just don't sell the ammunition.

10:58 Well, I think they didn't sell the high caliber.

11:00 Yeah. I mean, it's just a regular

11:03 like. And that was only because in

11:05 that documentary, like, you can see Mike.

11:07 Oh, my God. I've just lost his name.

11:09 Michael Moore. Michael Moore.

11:10 Thank you. He.

11:13 They actually went to the headquarters of Kmart and they

11:16 hounded them and hounded them until they came out and went.

11:18 Right. We've made the decision like

11:19 that. It was because he was there.

11:21 Yeah, with a film crew every day showing.

11:23 It down their. Throat.

11:23 That's right, yeah. Yeah, need more of that I

11:26 reckon. Absolutely.

11:27 I wonder if that still stands to this day.

11:29 Yeah, that's what I was like. Columbine was that was so.

11:31 Longer I wonder where they came and have reneged on that and you

11:33 know, and still and selling it again.

11:35 I don't. I haven't, yeah.

11:36 Any of our American listeners, let us let.

11:38 Us know I'm intrigued yeah too. It intrigues me into entirely

11:42 that whole thing, yes, Yeah. I've had a fair bit of feedback

11:46 from just people in our lives about the, the school shooting

11:50 series that we did. Yeah.

11:51 And people are like, I just forgot about the detail of it

11:54 and just how bad they were because you do hear about it all

11:59 the time and you sort of think they're not that bad.

12:01 So true. But Oh my God, they're horrific.

12:04 Yeah. Yeah, right.

12:07 Well, from one set of killers to another, today we're talking

12:10 about the Claremont serial killer.

12:13 So Megan, I was sort of discussing the way we were going

12:16 to go about presenting this today.

12:20 What we do know and what we're going to work towards, and I

12:23 think it's probably worth mentioning upfront, is that

12:27 Bradley Robert Edwards was the perpetrator of these crimes and

12:31 well, all bar one he's been convicted of.

12:36 And we're going to go through each of the victims and then

12:39 we're going to go through what led to his arrest and then sort

12:43 of into the into the trial for these girls, women's murders.

12:49 Yep. Yep, sounds good.

12:51 So the three murders that are attributed to him or were

12:55 attributed to him, you know, I guess most commonly there's

13:00 there's a lot more out there that potentially could be.

13:02 But anyway, that's. Something, yeah, we can get to.

13:04 Later, yeah. So Sarah Spears, who was aged

13:07 18, was killed on or around, well, presumed to be killed on

13:12 or around the 27th of January 1996.

13:16 We have Jane Rimmer who was aged 23 and was killed on or around

13:20 to the 9th of June in 1996 and then we have Kira Glennon who

13:25 was aged 27 and was killed on or around the 15th of March in

13:29 1997. Each of these girls came from a

13:32 close loving middle class family.

13:34 They all grew up in or around or lived in or around the Mossman

13:39 Park Claremont area, which is Oh my God.

13:44 Stunning part of the world. Yeah, like Cottesloe Beach is

13:47 just up the road and it is like. Beautiful.

13:50 One of the best beaches in the world.

13:52 Easy. Stunning Like yeah white sand,

13:55 crystal Clearwater just absolutely the.

13:58 Perth is so overlooked by international visitors, like for

14:01 that, like everyone comes to, it's so far away.

14:03 Everyone comes to Sydney and Melbourne, which Yep, you should

14:05 like. It's good.

14:06 Melbourne's great. But Perth is stunning,

14:08 absolutely stunning. So much the same.

14:10 Perth, all of it. Yeah, all of WA.

14:12 So far away. So we live in Melbourne.

14:14 For our international listeners, we live in Melbourne.

14:17 It's a five hour, 5 1/2 hour plane ride. 4/4 depends which

14:21 way the winds, where the wind's going.

14:24 Yeah, yeah. But it's a long way away.

14:25 It's decent. And there's a time difference as

14:28 well. So you actually feel like you're

14:30 flying internationally when you go to Perth.

14:32 You really do, Yeah. It's kind of like going back in

14:34 time, actually. Let's be really honest.

14:37 It's like it's kind of its own little.

14:40 It is, it's isolated in that sense from like the bigger

14:42 cities and that sort of thing. So it is, they're quite

14:45 different people who live in Perth to someone who's gonna

14:47 live in central Sydney, you know, sort of stuff.

14:49 So, but like it's, it's a very more, much more laid back kind

14:53 of lifestyle, Beachy lifestyle, you know, around that area.

14:57 And like particularly this area where you would call it an

14:59 affluent area, that Claremont sort of space as a place.

15:03 It's they're nice houses on the beach, like big properties and

15:06 things like that. It's a very nice area.

15:08 If you live around there, it's, you know, it comes with its own

15:11 lifestyle. You know, it's not just, you

15:13 don't just go there to live, I don't know, and go to work.

15:16 I think it's there's, you know, it's surfers.

15:18 It's all that sort of stuff. It's great.

15:20 It's a really cruisy kind of area.

15:22 That's what it was known as. And yeah.

15:23 And the weather in Perth also lends itself to that because

15:27 it's warm. 90% of the year, a lot of the year, yeah, not and

15:31 not too hot either because you go up further north and you're

15:33 hitting 45°, 50° potentially kind of narrow kind of area in

15:38 the more Outback sort of stuff. But that Perth area, you're

15:41 looking at 30° most days of the year.

15:42 It's yeah, just beautiful weather.

15:44 And that that obviously means there's a lot of people out all

15:47 the time, People out till later in the evening because it's it

15:50 doesn't really get cold. Yeah.

15:52 So that kind of you will come to come to all of this.

15:56 But yeah, people were out and about walking the streets all

16:00 the time, especially on Friday and Saturday nights when

16:03 everyone was kind of going out and socializing.

16:05 Yeah. So all of these girls had full

16:07 time jobs at the time of their disappearances.

16:10 They had bright futures ahead of them.

16:12 And they all had really close families and really close

16:15 circles of friends. So they in terms of where they

16:18 were at in their lives, they were happy, healthy.

16:22 You know, there's certain situations, circuit

16:24 circumstances that we'll get to for each girl about where they

16:27 were at in their lives. But it's, you know, it.

16:31 They they're their futures were robbed from them absolutely.

16:34 And they all had really, really bright, bright futures ahead of

16:37 them. So the first victim, and she was

16:41 actually the youngest victim in in this as well, her name was

16:44 Sarah Jane Spears. She was the 1st to go missing.

16:47 Her father Don was a shearing contractor in rural, rural WA.

16:52 Her mum's name was Carol, and she had a sister named Amanda.

16:57 As a lot of kids in these sort of like rural communities do,

17:00 when it came time to go to high school, her mom and dad decided

17:03 to send her to the main city, to Perth to go to boarding school.

17:07 Yeah, so she went to, I think it was Iona Presentation College in

17:11 Mosman Park. And she actually made friends

17:15 with so many girls at school and became really, really close with

17:22 a handful of girls in particular who kind of became like her

17:25 family because she was a border. She, you know, she would go to

17:30 her friends houses for dinners and stuff like that because she

17:33 didn't have her mom and dad close by.

17:35 So she had friends who became like family to her during this

17:38 time. After graduating, she attended

17:42 secretarial school and she got a receptionist job at an

17:45 engineering consultancy in Subiaco called BSD.

17:48 Not long after she graduated Secretariat School.

17:51 From all accounts, she actually did an amazing job there.

17:53 She was like she was made for this.

17:54 She was organized. She had everything sorted.

17:57 She was a, you know, really good typist.

17:59 She had, she just had a natural ability for, you know, that

18:03 skill. Set.

18:04 For sure. At this time she was sharing a

18:07 flat in Subiaco with her sister Amanda.

18:09 So her sister was older than she was and they decided to share a

18:15 flat together. Cool as I always wanted.

18:18 A sister, same. And yeah, like then live with

18:20 them and, you know, out of home kind of stuff like that a bit.

18:22 Yeah. God yeah, Live it up.

18:24 And so Carol, their mum, said that they had such a close

18:29 relationship, so they were best friends as well as sisters.

18:33 So much so that when Sarah actually went missing, her mum

18:36 said it wasn't necessarily unusual that they hadn't heard

18:40 from Sarah on a daily basis because that wasn't the nature

18:43 of their relationship. But the fact that Amanda hadn't

18:46 heard from her was significant. Yeah, I mean, not only for the

18:50 fact that they lived together, but even when they weren't

18:52 together, they were caught. They knew each other's

18:54 whereabouts. They were, They were in each

18:56 other's lives. They shared friendship circles.

18:59 Yeah, and all of that sort of stuff.

19:02 So on Australia Day in 1996, which is the 26th of January in

19:09 Australia, Amanda picked Sarah and her friends up from the

19:13 Ocean Beach Hotel, AKA OBH. You'll hear it referred to as.

19:18 Obh. And she dropped them shortly

19:22 after midnight at Club Bayview in in Claremont.

19:27 So OBH is in Cottesloe, which is sort of the next Beachy town,

19:31 Beachy suburb up from up from Claremont.

19:34 Yeah, these were the places to me, by the way.

19:37 So there was the Continental Hotel, the Conti, OBH and Club

19:43 Bayview were the three places that every young person

19:48 frequented. Yeah, Friday.

19:49 And they would sort of like travel between like almost all

19:52 three of them at times, like, you know, as you'd do that in,

19:54 in the day, like they'd absolutely go between like, you

19:56 know, if one the one place wasn't pumping enough, you know,

19:58 like they'd move to the next one.

20:00 And yeah. And there was It was a real dog.

20:01 Bayview and the Conti was so close to each other you could

20:04 just. Walk.

20:04 Yeah. You just walk between them.

20:05 Yeah, yeah. Whereas you needed to get a, you

20:08 know, a cab from OBH to to the Conti automatic, that's it.

20:14 So that night, Sarah didn't actually go home and Amanda

20:21 thought it was a little bit weird, bit of out of bit out of

20:23 character. But then also there would

20:26 potentially be the case that she was out with this certain group

20:29 of friends. She'd often stay at their houses

20:31 or they'd stay at her house. And so it wasn't immediately at

20:36 that point that night immediately worrying.

20:39 However, Sarah had arranged for another friend to actually stay

20:43 at their house the like the on the night of the 27th and when

20:49 she wasn't home to be there for that friend coming over, which

20:52 was pre arraigned. Yeah, Amanda really freaked out

20:55 That's she's like she would never do this like she wouldn't

20:59 leave her friend by Einstein stranded.

21:02 No, so Amanda actually contacted their dad and their dad was

21:07 like, okay, I mean, Can you imagine?

21:09 He's they're in. Rural, they're so far away.

21:11 It's like, you know, I'm there. 10 minutes.

21:12 I'll be like, no. No.

21:16 So they've obviously then reported her missing to the

21:19 police. And to the police's credit, I

21:22 mean, I think their thought immediately wasn't that she'd

21:25 been murdered, but they. And they say that because in the

21:27 area, that's just not what was, was the norm by any means.

21:31 That was not. That wouldn't be their first

21:33 thought. Yeah.

21:34 Yeah, so I think the police immediately looked at her as a

21:37 missing person. Absolutely.

21:38 Yeah. To their credit, they did that

21:40 straight away. They started investigations

21:42 straight away. Yeah, not expecting like that.

21:46 She'd something she'd sort of come to.

21:48 Well, they really thought she'd go up and be like, oh God,

21:51 sorry, I. Met a guy and.

21:53 Yeah, or overstayed my welcome at someone else's house or

21:56 something like that, her dad expressed to the police and

22:01 subsequently then in the media as well in the in the aftermath

22:05 of all of this, he's shocked that she would leave somewhere

22:11 on her own. Like he was like, no, we've, we,

22:13 we, she's street smart. Yes, we're from the country, but

22:17 she's. She's lived in, in the city of

22:20 like, you know, kind of stuff for a while.

22:21 And yeah. Yeah, yeah.

22:23 And so we taught them never to go anywhere on their own.

22:25 Yeah. To be street smart to, you know,

22:29 look out for dangers when they're out and about.

22:31 Yeah. And it's so he said, you know,

22:33 he can't believe that, that she would have gone anywhere on her

22:37 own. But as it turned out, she did.

22:41 So they were at Club Bayview and she told friends she was getting

22:46 really tired and wanted to go home and one of her friends, I

22:49 think her name was Emma, actually must.

22:51 Have been a good friend. Good.

22:52 Friend, she said to her. Oh, I'll come with you.

22:55 And apparently Sarah was like, no, no.

22:57 No, I'm fine. You stay.

22:58 I'm. Fine, you stay and which?

23:01 Those sliding doors moments, isn't it?

23:03 Like it's just like, imagine if she'd gone.

23:05 Yeah, come with me. Like, yeah.

23:08 Anyway, so we what we know for sure is that Sarah left Club

23:16 Bayview, she went to a pay phone in Sterling St. which is like

23:20 literally just at the brown corner and she called a taxi

23:24 from that phone booth. You can hear the recording.

23:27 It was made public during the trial.

23:30 And she basically said like the operator says where to?

23:33 And she says Mossman Park. Now this kind of through

23:38 investigators when they found this, this, this footy or

23:42 whatever, this recording, because she didn't live in

23:45 Mossman Park, she lived in South Perth.

23:48 What they then found out throughout their investigation

23:51 was she actually that day, so during the day of the 26th of

23:56 Jan had been over to a friend's house and her friend wasn't

24:00 actually home, but her friend's mum was home.

24:03 They lived in Mossman Park, right?

24:04 And she'd stayed for two hours chatting with the mum, right,

24:08 even though her friend wasn't there.

24:10 And the mum said, oh, what are you doing tonight?

24:12 And she said, oh, we're going out in Claremont.

24:14 Yeah. And the mum said, oh, instead of

24:17 getting a taxi back to South Perth, you're more than welcome

24:20 to come and stay here. You know where the spare key is,

24:22 right. So she'd obviously planned to

24:24 take her up on. Yeah, take her up on that,

24:25 right? And this is also why Amanda

24:27 wasn't immediately concerned, because.

24:29 That would be could be an arrangement.

24:31 Stay at the friend's house. Yeah, Mum's offered.

24:34 I think the mum's name was Anne. Yeah.

24:35 Offered to have me stay over. Yeah.

24:39 And again. And if that's something that,

24:41 you know, they regularly did with staying over, yeah, you

24:43 wouldn't be concerned when she wasn't there that night, like,

24:45 oh. She's chosen not to spend the

24:47 extra money on a taxi. Yeah.

24:48 Fair enough. Fair.

24:49 Enough. She was only 18 years old, she

24:51 probably didn't have a massive amount of disposable in.

24:53 Absolutely. So that this phone call was made

24:57 to call the taxi. I think it was about 2:00 AM.

25:00 Is that right? Yeah.

25:01 Yeah, the taxi driver gets the dispatch order within and he

25:06 said he was there within 2 minutes.

25:08 Yes. Now this man, he was a Czech

25:11 man, Czech driver from the Czech Republic.

25:14 Yep. And when he's, he actually

25:17 testifies in the trial as well. And he said he was there like,

25:22 yeah, as he said, within two minutes, she was nowhere to be

25:25 found. And he said that wasn't

25:27 uncommon. People no call a taxi and then

25:30 want to go past and you pay all that.

25:32 Pail that down or someone else goes.

25:33 No, just jump in with us, you know?

25:34 Oh, OK. Yeah, sure.

25:35 Jump in. There's no one then there's no

25:36 one there. When you get there, it's a

25:37 cabbie. Yeah.

25:38 And then he. Said he did AU turn, picked up

25:40 another fair and went off merry. Way never thought anything of

25:42 it. Absolutely.

25:43 And yeah, wasn't an unusual thing.

25:47 So she was actually, while she was waiting for the taxi,

25:50 though, she was seen by two men. Yeah.

25:52 And they were in a taxi themselves.

25:55 And the driver actually pointed her out to them because he was

25:58 like the driver of their taxi was like, oh, check out that

26:02 gorgeous young thing over there, you know?

26:04 And so they both of them really admit admitted in court they

26:08 were checking her. Out, yeah.

26:10 I mean that she was gorgeous. All three of these girls were

26:13 absolutely stunning. Not that they should be.

26:16 You know, they should be allowed to wait for a taxi without being

26:19 ogled by men. But.

26:21 And she was leaning over a bollard, according to them, and

26:24 it looked like she was waiting for a taxi.

26:26 Yeah, That was the last known sighting of her.

26:29 No one knows anything else of where she went there, no.

26:33 There is nothing else on the night witnesses heard blood

26:40 curdling screams. So there were three separate

26:43 witnesses, Yes. Who report the same thing.

26:46 Yeah. The first witness was named

26:49 Judith Borat. She lived in Fairlight St. in

26:52 Mossman Park, which was like sort of like a a street back

26:55 from like the main road through Mossman Park, from what I can

26:59 gather. Yeah, she was a slightly elderly

27:01 lady, but she her, she must have been awake at the time because

27:07 she doesn't, you know, testimony.

27:08 It doesn't say anything about her waking up to scream.

27:12 So maybe she was already awake. Her actual testimony, she says

27:17 they were desperate, blood curdling, terrible, terrible

27:20 screams very high pitched in the early hours of the 27th.

27:25 I think for her, for one person who said that, but there were

27:28 multiple accounts of that very similar take on that on how

27:32 that. Was I've even written down the

27:33 the quote from the other people. Yeah.

27:35 So she said So Judith then said after that there was absolute

27:38 silence. Yes.

27:40 Then we have Jesse Marie Monroe, who lived in an apartment in St.

27:43 Leonards Ave., which is sort of on the other side and in Mossman

27:49 Park. She said she heard a blood,

27:52 blood curdling scream and woke up her partner, her then

27:55 partner, who's now actually to this day, her husband.

27:58 Yeah, his name's Wayne. He then heard a scream as well

28:03 and went outside or went to their window, which was open

28:07 because it was hot. It was.

28:08 It was like a 40° day. Yeah.

28:09 Day. Yeah, To check it out through

28:12 their open window. Yeah.

28:14 All three witnesses say that the screams came from the direction

28:17 of a phone box on Monument St. Yeah, Jesse Marie and Wayne saw

28:21 a car at the phone box with their tail lights on.

28:24 So their testimony was that they the IT looked like the brake

28:29 pedal was being depressed. And then obviously it's gone in

28:33 like the parking brakes, the pan brakes being put on, the lights

28:37 of the the foot brake have come off.

28:41 Yeah. They then heard a car door slam

28:47 and then silence. Well, they said there was one

28:49 car door slam and then about 10 seconds later a second car door

28:53 slam and then and then silence. So what I found interesting

28:59 about this was neither of them contacted the police at that

29:03 exact time. No.

29:05 Wayne and Jesse Marie contacted Crime Stoppers the next morning

29:09 once they'd woken up again. And but by this stage, like they

29:14 didn't really know, they hadn't really seen anything.

29:17 They were able to give a kind of description of the car.

29:21 Wayne got the car pretty right. What we now know is probably

29:25 pretty right. He said it well, he said it was

29:27 a Toyota Camry station wagon. White, white, oh, cream

29:30 coloured. It was actually sorry, he's

29:36 sorry, he said. It was a Toyota Corona station

29:39 wagon. It was actually a Toyota Camry

29:40 station wagon. Yeah.

29:42 But pretty, pretty close, yeah. And then, but Judith didn't

29:47 actually report it until a week later, right?

29:50 Because it was playing on her mind and she was like, oh, I

29:53 think. And so she actually called Crime

29:55 Stoppers as well. Yeah.

29:56 And reported it through there. So their testimony was heard

30:00 during the trial. But I mean, they, aside from

30:06 what I've just said there, they didn't really have any other

30:09 evidence to give. No, but I think it goes to the

30:12 fact that you know something's happened.

30:14 Something happened in that area. Area.

30:16 Yeah. And they didn't find anything,

30:19 did they? When they like the following

30:20 day, whatever, when the first witnesses called that, did they

30:23 search that area? They went.

30:25 To the phone box, Yeah, they sent uniformed police.

30:28 But they didn't find any evidence around there at all,

30:30 no. Having said that, it wasn't like

30:33 the forensic team went there. You know, just local cops like

30:36 the. Yeah, just uniformed cops

30:37 checking it out toward around which not No, at that point they

30:41 probably. I guess.

30:42 Yeah. Well, the next morning for sure.

30:44 She hadn't been reported even missing yet, Not yet.

30:46 So, you know, looking around for something, you don't even know

30:48 what anything even anything's possibly occurred.

30:51 Not even linking up the two. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:54 Oh, God. Imagine if they'd call the cops

30:55 on the night. I don't know like.

30:57 Would it have made a? Difference.

30:58 Would it have made a difference? Who knows?

31:01 Yeah, guys, if you see something, say something like

31:03 you do hear a blood cuddling scream in the middle of the

31:06 night, Call the cops. What's?

31:08 The worst, what's the worst can happen?

31:09 They go check it out, you know, nothing's there and that's that.

31:12 But like, yeah, awful. But he was clearly organized in

31:16 what he was doing in that sense. Like if he left nothing behind

31:19 too, you know, No evidence of anything.

31:21 I think we're like, we're gonna get to all of that soon.

31:24 Yeah. So we actually know nothing else

31:27 of, of Sarah Spears. Her body to this day, has never

31:30 been found. I can't imagine how her fat, how

31:34 that must make her family feel. We'll get to the way this was

31:37 presented. Her case was presented in trial

31:40 a little bit later on. So the second victim was Jane

31:44 Louise Rimmer. She was 23 years old at the time

31:47 of her attack. Her mom, Jenny, dad Trevor,

31:50 brother Adam. She was a childcare worker and

31:55 she would. So they were a very, very close

31:59 family. Yeah.

32:00 So much so. I actually love this.

32:03 They would have Sunday family lunch.

32:05 It was just not an option not to attend.

32:09 Everyone always came back for Sunday family lunch.

32:12 Love that. But Jane would actually quite

32:14 often drop in her load of washing on a Saturday for mum,

32:18 yeah, Mum and dad to have it ready for it ready on Sunday to

32:21 pick up. Good plan, love.

32:24 That So apparently on this day, on the Saturday morning, she

32:27 dropped, dropped to her washing off, dropped her washing off,

32:31 basket of washing off. And so the family fully expected

32:35 her to be there for the Sunday lunch.

32:37 It's obviously, you know, yeah, absolute intention that she's

32:39 gonna be there the next day to pick that up for the week and a

32:42 good feed. Yeah.

32:43 Oh yeah. Oh, God, you just basically

32:44 actually flashback to that. You know, that ad with about Tom

32:48 Cruise with Nicole Kidman in? It was like, you know, you're

32:50 gonna give up Sunday roast for a date with Tom Cruise.

32:53 Remember that. Yes, I do remember that about

32:56 this time. Not these days.

32:57 Oh. No, take that that that roast

33:01 any day. Same.

33:03 Oh my God. So Jane grew up in Shenton Park,

33:08 which I believe was a quite a nice suburb as well of Perth.

33:12 She attended the local primary school, Rosalie Primary School,

33:15 and then she went to Hollywood High School.

33:16 So all in the same sort of area. Yeah.

33:20 She growing up, she had a job at part time job at the local deli.

33:26 We've all had our lovely part time jobs.

33:28 What was your favorite part time job?

33:29 Well, my favorite. Oh, probably working at the

33:34 jewelry store. Yep, I loved that.

33:36 But the one before that actually was pretty cool.

33:38 I worked at a photo developing shock, which is for the kids out

33:42 there who don't understand that the photos were always digital

33:45 and you used to go and get them printed.

33:46 You'd hand in you. Oh my God.

33:48 That was the best photo you ever saw.

33:50 We'll. Talk about later.

33:51 OK, I, I wasn't the one printing, but my friend who

33:56 lived across the road from, it's how I got the job.

33:57 He used to do the printing and I was like, I would serve

34:00 customers and stuff and like, hey, but when you're done, come

34:02 over and take this out. Oh my God, people to have the

34:06 audacity. I mean you had no other choice

34:07 no to do it. If you wanted those photos, you

34:09 had to send them in to be developed.

34:10 But must they like a law? Yeah, you had to report certain

34:13 things. Yeah, OK.

34:15 Sort of. Stuff, Oh God, the worst one was

34:17 then because the customers would come in and you'd have to like

34:19 give their photos over that. You've just seen stuff.

34:21 Oh, that's more because then we'd have they needed to do the

34:25 whole like, you know, if it was a different day or whatever to

34:27 the person who printed them, you'd be like, I saw that

34:30 person, this is what they were like.

34:35 Oh God. That was a yeah, that was a good

34:37 job. Oh.

34:38 My God, I love that. Yeah, that is so.

34:42 Cool, very different days. I wasn't.

34:43 I am that old. Jane was very popular at school,

34:51 really well liked. She was a real surfer chick.

34:54 Anytime she had spare time she'd be down at Cottesloe Beach

34:56 surfing. Love that.

34:58 And all of her friends were sort of into the same thing.

35:01 So they were, you know, a really good group of group of kids.

35:05 She took her job as a childcare worker in the Nedlands area not

35:10 long after finishing school. She always, according to her

35:12 brother Adam, she loved kids, loved kids and so just had an

35:17 absolute passion for that. Yeah.

35:19 She then worked for a little bit of time as a nanny for a family

35:22 in Esperance and then she actually went back to the

35:25 childcare centre not long before her disappearance and subsequent

35:29 murder. Jane and her friends often, as

35:33 we were talking about with Sarah, they often hung out at

35:36 Club Bay View at the Conti. OBH there's CCTV of her on the

35:41 night of her disappearance which was on the 8th of June in 1996.

35:46 The CCTV footage was taken at 10:40 PM.

35:49 Like the little snippet have you seen?

35:51 It no, I haven't seen that one. It's actually really fascinating

35:54 because so this was at the front of Club Bayview, inside the

36:00 club, they the CCTV switched between cameras every 11 seconds

36:05 and there was like so you could actually inside you could kind

36:08 of see every 11 seconds, but you could sort would give a

36:12 different angle, different angle.

36:13 So you'd have like seconds where you wouldn't see that corner or

36:17 whatever, or. Yeah, yes, you would.

36:19 But the way the cameras were set up inside, you could kind of see

36:22 everything. Kind of.

36:25 Whereas outside there were only two cameras and they were on a

36:28 35 second loop. So it'd be 35 seconds at this

36:30 angle, 35 seconds at that angle, 35 seconds at this angle, Yeah,

36:34 35 seconds at that angle. And in angle A, let's call it

36:38 angle A. Yeah.

36:38 You could see Sarah. She'd come out of the club.

36:41 You could see her waiting out the front.

36:43 Right. In the second angle, though, you

36:45 couldn't. See her there?

36:47 Oh, you could kind of just see the side of her head.

36:48 Actually, you couldn't see her face.

36:50 Yeah, at one point a man comes up to her and you can see her

36:54 face. She's like kind of excited or

36:56 happy to see this person. We don't know to this day who.

36:59 That person is. She's kind of like chats with

37:02 him for a few seconds and then he goes and greets.

37:05 I think he goes and greets the bouncers or something, and she's

37:10 then standing there on her own, we assume waiting for a taxi

37:16 Anyway. So then in that footage you can

37:18 see her. It then switches to the other

37:22 angle where you kind of can't see her.

37:25 Now she's kind of stepped out of the frame of that.

37:27 Yeah. It then switches 35 seconds

37:29 later back to that first angle. She's not there.

37:31 Oh, that's sickening. Oh God.

37:34 Now I guess the presumption is that she's got that to a taxi.

37:38 35 seconds or not less than like it what?

37:41 You also in that in the B angle. In the second angle, you can't

37:45 actually see a car pull up whereas, but you could you.

37:48 Could if it was on the end. Now nothing untoward, like

37:54 nothing majorly untoward must have happened because there were

37:57 multiple people standing there. Yeah, there were bodyguard like

38:02 security, sorry, not bodyguards, security guards standing out the

38:05 front as well. Yeah.

38:07 So what actually has happened? We don't actually know and.

38:11 They've got to wonder, OK, so this person or whoever you know

38:15 has taken her, right? Are they that well organized

38:19 that they know these things about the cameras?

38:21 Or are they just fucking lucky? I don't know.

38:29 Time will tell, Yeah. I don't know that we ever

38:32 actually get a full answer to that, but but the organization

38:35 is certainly something that comes into play.

38:37 Absolutely. Earlier that day, Jane had gone

38:41 to have her hair done so it's washed just a washing a blow

38:43 dryer at the local salon. She was wearing blue jeans, a

38:48 nice top and a jacket. Jeans and a nice top.

38:51 Oh, there's a nice top. What are you wearing?

38:52 Tonight, jeans and a nice top. I was just like.

38:55 Everyone's jeans and a nice. Top jeans and a nice top.

38:57 Yep. Yeah.

38:58 My go to nice top when I used to go out was this black sparkly

39:02 number. Yeah, love that.

39:03 That would be so you. Yeah.

39:07 That top I don't even know what happened.

39:08 Yeah, we all had that favorite one.

39:10 Yeah, yes. And she was also wearing a

39:14 guest, a guest, a guest branded watch.

39:18 Silver watch? I had a guest watch that that

39:20 point too. Oh.

39:21 I think that were the that were the clean thing.

39:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah. She'd gotten a taxi to meet her

39:28 friends at OBH, and then they all decided to jump in another

39:31 taxi and go to the Conti for the rest of the night.

39:36 It's it's just terrifying that night, 45 kilometers.

39:41 So actually, sorry, just going back just a little bit.

39:45 She actually a similar situation to Sarah.

39:49 She was like, oh, I'm getting really tired.

39:51 I think I'm going to go home. She'd had a busy day at work.

39:53 I mean, if you're a childcare worker.

39:55 Kill me now, exhausted. So she said to her friends, I'm

39:59 going home. I'm so tired.

40:01 And her friends were like, oh, we'll come with you.

40:03 This is the thing what gets me with this like in it, these are

40:05 the two, these two girls responsible.

40:08 You know, I'm like, I'm not going to be the one coming home

40:10 at 2. AMI want to go home early and

40:12 get a good night's sleep. These aren't you know what I

40:15 mean? That they're they're doing the

40:16 right thing and they're the ones who, you know, who end up like

40:19 this. Not that anyone deserves this,

40:20 but they're just kids, girls with, you know, their heads

40:23 screwed on. Like, you know, they've got

40:24 their life that they want to, they've got things they want to

40:26 do the next day and they're not going to write themselves off or

40:28 whatever and continue partying. And I don't know anyone who'd do

40:32 that. God, no.

40:34 How irresponsible. But yeah, you're absolutely

40:37 right. Like these girls are, I mean,

40:39 they're just going about their lives.

40:40 They. Yeah.

40:41 Ever be worried about? Being out at night and stuff and

40:45 partying wasn't there Bill and indoor, there was other things

40:47 to do, you know, kind of stuff they were looking out for

40:49 themselves going home and so. This happened like 6 months.

40:54 This day it was between. After Sarah Spears went missing,

40:57 So I feel like, and at this stage, Sarah Spears was still

41:00 missing, yeah, nobody actually knew what happened to her.

41:03 In their minds it would have been like, yeah, there was a

41:04 girl who went missing from this area, but but it's removed in

41:08 that it's one person. And maybe she had a, you know,

41:10 something, something going on and she's not being found to be

41:13 dead. Like she could be.

41:14 She'd be living her life in Broome or something.

41:16 And you know, like something like that, who knows, she could

41:18 be 18 year old off having fun. So in their minds, they weren't,

41:22 you know, in an issue. It wasn't a problem.

41:24 It wasn't that. That's exactly.

41:26 Right, yeah. So that night 45 kilometres away

41:30 in Wellard, 2 people heard a a loud high pitched female scream

41:35 which stopped abruptly like mid scream, then silence.

41:40 Yeah. The following day, a man by the

41:44 name of Paul Lagenbach, 20 year old man, was riding a horse in

41:49 Wellard and he, his horse got spooked by something and it

41:53 actually threw him off the horse.

41:55 Oh, right. And he land when he landed, he

41:57 sort of landed on all fours and he saw a woman's guests watch on

42:04 the floor. So he on the ground.

42:06 So he just picked that up right And he's like, oh, sweet.

42:09 And then he said it looked brand new, like really well, really

42:12 looked after, really good condition, really well looked

42:14 after. Little did he know that Jane's

42:17 body was actually right there and he didn't see it.

42:21 I I assume that's probably what spooked the horse.

42:23 Yeah, the horse would have known that.

42:25 He wouldn't have necessarily because, I mean, at that point,

42:27 I guess it sounds awful, but the body wouldn't have been smelling

42:30 yet to him, but the horse would have, yes, picked up on that.

42:33 So yeah, it's I, I can guarantee that's exactly what the horse

42:36 was reacting to. Yeah, because it took another

42:38 two months before her body was found there in Wellard, which is

42:41 just awful to think. I mean, he must have felt

42:43 terrible he didn't find her immediately.

42:44 But having said that, how awful to have found her too.

42:47 So if I don't know, which one would you prefer?

42:50 Yeah, yeah. On that Sunday, the SO Jane's

42:54 obviously failed to turn up for family lunch.

42:56 And to pick up her washing, yeah, well.

42:58 And her mum. So her mum decided to go to a

43:00 flat, saw that Jane's car was in its normal spot so she fully

43:04 expected Jane to be in the flat, had just maybe she was sleeping

43:08 in or something. Yep, not feeling well or

43:10 something like that. Yep, Yep.

43:11 No, Jane. So the family immediately then

43:14 called the police, as you said. A couple of months later, on the

43:18 3rd of August in 1996, a mum and her kids were driving in the

43:22 well at area and they spotted a rooster on the side of the road

43:25 and the kids wanted to chase the rooster.

43:26 I should do so. The mum, Perth, go for it.

43:29 You go for it. Yeah, I'm gonna let you have a

43:31 bit of a run around. And yeah, the mum actually said

43:33 that she saw some lilies on the side of the road.

43:36 Oh, she wanted wildflowers. Yeah.

43:38 There's so many beautiful wildflowers along those roads in

43:40 Perth and stuff. Yeah.

43:41 Yeah, I mean, the photos of it look beautiful.

43:44 Yeah. So she let the kids out, let

43:47 them go for a run and chase this poor bloody rooster.

43:50 And she was starting to pick lilies.

43:52 And in doing so, she uncovered Jane's body, which was only just

43:56 covered by some like leaves and like bushes, and wasn't.

44:00 Like, heavily hidden. Like it was fairy.

44:02 Yeah, yeah. She Jane's body was naked and by

44:08 this stage I mean it was in a fairly advanced, yes, state of

44:11 decomposition. Yeah, a little bit after this.

44:14 So the police have obviously done a bit of a canvas of the

44:16 area, but some other horse riders, I think it was around

44:22 like not that long after Jane's body was discovered, but they

44:25 actually picked up a Telstra issued knife in the area.

44:29 Yes. And again, it was just something

44:30 that caught their eyes. They were riding past yeah.

44:33 Picked it up and saw that it had a Telstra logo on the handle of

44:38 it. So Telstra is the Australia what

44:40 would have been telecom actually, not Telstra wasn't

44:42 that point. Telstra was Telstra that point.

44:44 Telecom became Telstra mid 1995. 95, right, OK, OK, cool.

44:49 Because both of that all come into play, I think.

44:51 Yes, yeah. So yeah, Telecom and Telstra are

44:53 the same thing. And it's our telecommunication

44:55 company that does majority of the telecommunications within

44:59 Australia. All right.

45:00 Across the entirety of Australia, yeah.

45:03 Yeah. So this has obviously gained a

45:07 lot of publicity. And the horse rider, the 20 year

45:10 old horse rider, Paul, who picked up Jane's watch, realized

45:13 what he had. Yeah, his possession.

45:15 Yeah. And so he contacted police.

45:17 So the police used that as evidence that she was actually

45:22 murdered either in the early hours of the 9th or the the late

45:27 hours of the eighth. Yeah, June, which coincidentally

45:31 was actually a long weekend as well.

45:33 It was the Queen's back then, the Queen's Birthday, long

45:36 weekend. Interestingly enough, the

45:38 Australia Day murder, well, disappearance of Sarah Spears,

45:42 that was also a long weekend. It's just an interesting little.

45:46 Yeah, coincidence or not, or Yeah, yeah.

45:51 All right, we are now on to the third victim, so Kira Eilish

45:56 Glennon. And by this stage, the

45:58 community, obviously with a second murder, the police were

46:00 already putting together these two, one most likely connected.

46:04 They'd already sort of used the words around the community that

46:07 was potentially someone, one person, you know, potentially,

46:11 you know, was out and about and that people should be on the

46:15 lookout and taking more care of who they're interacting with.

46:20 So yes. Kira Eilish Glennon.

46:23 Her dad is Dennis Glennon. He is at the forefront of the

46:31 media publicity for all of this. He's an incredible man and a

46:34 wonderful advocate for not only his daughter, but for the other

46:38 victims of this perpetrator. Yeah.

46:41 Her mom, Una Glennon. And she had a sister named

46:44 Denise Glennon. So Kira was born actually in

46:49 Zambia to Irish parents and the family settled in Perth when she

46:52 was about six or seven years old or maybe 8 somewhere around

46:56 there. So she was still in primary

46:58 school when they moved to to Perth.

47:01 They lived in the affluent area of Mosman Park.

47:05 I think her dad was an engineer and very well regarded in the

47:09 industry. He owned his own business by

47:10 this point. She graduated from the

47:13 University of WA in 1992 with degrees in law and Japanese.

47:18 Because why not just do both? Well, when you're.

47:21 Yeah, amazing. When you're incredible, yeah,

47:24 you do you, girl. Absolutely.

47:25 What I mean clearly, yeah, so much potential.

47:29 Yes, so much potential. Yeah, she gained a very

47:33 prestigious and hard fought internship at the law firm Blake

47:37 Dawson Waldron in 1993. So literally as soon as she

47:40 graduated, she will. Someone snapped her up.

47:42 Yeah. Her father describes her as

47:44 being resourceful, resilient and strong willed.

47:47 She had she know, she knew what she wanted and she went and got

47:51 it. Yeah.

47:51 She was a very keen ballet dancer.

47:54 She was really petite. She was only 155 or something

47:57 centimetres tall, so she was quite short.

47:59 Yeah, very, very petite in stature.

48:01 But he said that wasn't her personality.

48:04 Yeah, she made-up for it everywhere.

48:05 I like it. I love it.

48:06 She. Was really sort of headstrong,

48:08 yeah. And determined she she always

48:11 achieved what she wanted to achieve.

48:12 Wow. Two weeks before her

48:16 disappearance, she returned from a year travelling around the

48:20 world. She did a lot of this solo.

48:23 Yeah. She met up with friends in

48:25 various places and obviously made lots of friends along the

48:27 way because I think she was very, very.

48:29 But outgoing and friendly, yeah. This, I think, also goes to the

48:33 fact that she must have been incredible at her job.

48:36 Blake Dawson Waldron took her back, so they let her have this.

48:40 Year off leave, Yeah. I mean, I feel like in that

48:44 maybe in a law firm that's might be unprecedented.

48:47 I don't. Know because.

48:48 But. Clearly she was good at her job

48:50 to say like, you know, yeah, take a leave and we'll get yeah

48:52 when you come back, I'd love. To have your back when you come

48:54 back. Yeah, they Yep.

48:55 So her her sister said that she slotted straight back into her

49:00 friendship group, straight back into her work circle and the

49:04 reason she came back is because Denise was actually getting

49:08 married and and Kyra was a bridesmaid in the wedding so.

49:14 Yeah, that's heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking because

49:18 unfortunately, on the 15th of March in 1997, Kira went to make

49:26 friends at the Conti. She decided to make her own way

49:29 home, exactly the same situation as the other two girls.

49:33 She was like, all right, I'm, I'm done.

49:35 But I don't want my friends to miss out there.

49:37 Yeah, you guys keep keep having fun.

49:39 She would. Have probably still been jet

49:41 lagged and, you know, she was trying to get back into the

49:43 swing of things and I believe she had a dress fitting or

49:46 something with her sister the following day so she probably

49:49 wanted to be a bit fresh for that.

49:51 Not not feeling whatever. CD Yeah, yeah.

49:54 So she decided to go make her own way home.

49:57 Yeah. Three men at a bus stop.

50:00 I think they call these guys the Burger Boys because they were

50:04 they'd eat, they were eating burgers or something at the

50:06 time. Yeah, one of the bus stops the.

50:08 Traditional grab grabbing the take away food as you leave the

50:11 the nightclub like your. What's your go to hangover food

50:14 after you're leaving or? Back then there was there was

50:18 always these good hot dogs at one place that were pretty

50:20 amazing, OK. Yeah, what about like, kebab?

50:25 Never been into the kebab situation.

50:26 Like, I mean, I don't, I don't mind a kebab, don't get me

50:29 wrong, but like, that's yeah not it wasn't my thing after a night

50:32 out. After a night out, Yep.

50:33 Yeah, one of my girlfriends just always wanted an orange Fanta.

50:36 Do you? Know what I feel that you need

50:39 the liquid that you know the hydration and the sugar, but.

50:43 It couldn't be any other soft drink.

50:44 It had to be an orange fan. Well, that's but you know, with

50:46 that I have to pay that Mac is the premix stuff.

50:50 It's not. I mean, like not the premix.

50:51 Sorry, the post mix is what you need.

50:54 I don't know why you don't want like it's less fizzy or

50:58 something about it that you need that post mix a.

51:00 Macca's post mix Yeah, next. When you're hungover, that Oh

51:04 yeah, yeah, that was one thing I definitely craved.

51:07 Was like there's so much the food.

51:08 It was yeah, a post mix Coke from like a Macca's.

51:12 Yeah, hit the spot. I agree.

51:14 Actually, I fully agree. On that and not Diet Coke.

51:17 Sorry, I can't do you fake sugar.

51:19 I can do a Coke Zero. I can't do a Diet Coke these

51:21 days though. Yeah, fake sugar.

51:23 Can't stand it. I'd rather I just don't drink

51:26 enough soft drink to kind of go. I just if you're gonna have one,

51:28 yeah, go the full fat. Yeah, but.

51:31 I I find coke cokes my mouth like, I don't know, makes I'll

51:34 like. Feel young real coke yes like

51:37 that's what I think that's the post mix thing.

51:38 I don't mind like I know it's. Less doesn't have the same.

51:40 Intensity. I don't know like what it is,

51:42 I'm not sure anyway. Yeah, going back is post mix.

51:46 Post mix yeah. So these three burger boys were

51:51 saw Kira walking along Sterling Highway at about 12:30 AM and he

51:56 they actually saw her interacting with a light

52:00 coloured vehicle that stopped next to her as she was walking

52:03 along the road. Yes. 19 days later on the 3rd of

52:07 April in 1997, her semi clothed body was found by a bushwalker

52:12 40 kilometres north of Claremont.

52:15 Yeah, in Eglinton, yeah. Now this is the absolute

52:20 opposite to side of Perth, to Wellard.

52:23 So we're talking 40 KS north and 40 KS S essentially, yes too.

52:29 So it wasn't I guess. With, yeah, it was a bit out of

52:33 out of zone of where other things that happened with the

52:35 other victims. That's right.

52:37 Yeah, not that we know where where Spears body is, but it.

52:41 No, not where it's been. Yeah, a bit weird.

52:43 And so much so that the police want Hmm, is this related?

52:48 Yeah, the other thing with this attack was that it was even more

52:52 they obviously don't know about the attack was with Sarah, but

52:56 also but definitely from between Jane and this one.

53:00 This one was far more intense. The there was, she fought well

53:05 and truly, which I mean comes down to what you're saying about

53:07 her personality too, that she was someone who was feisty and

53:10 maybe she may be little, but she would fight and she certainly

53:13 fought. She fought to the point where

53:15 she ended up scratching this person and she so she had

53:18 obviously things under her fingernails, but we're talking

53:20 1997. And so DNA evidence isn't

53:24 amazing yet, but there was definitely stuff there that they

53:28 did collect because it was clear from her body that she had

53:33 fought, that there was defensive wounds and things.

53:35 So quite different to Jane in some of that sense, yeah.

53:40 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

53:42 So I guess now we've got these three missing girls, two of whom

53:48 we know are murdered and whose bodies have now been found.

53:52 Mm hmm. And definitely presuming that

53:54 Sarah's dead at this. Point yes, absolutely.

53:56 Because I mean, it's it's worth noting that her Medicare card

54:00 was never used, her bank accounts were never touched, she

54:03 never made contact with friends or family or anything like that

54:07 again. So she is absolutely presumed

54:10 dead by this time. Yeah, we're talking like 14

54:13 months between her disappearance and then Kiras that, you know,

54:17 there's the timeline sort of says that they were connected,

54:20 Yeah. That's right.

54:21 And so and the fact that they all went missing from a very

54:24 similar area, yeah, definitely connected them.

54:27 So the police actually were forming the view that they had a

54:31 serial killer on their hands. Yeah.

54:33 And they decided to form a task force in order to investigate

54:38 these murders slash disappearance.

54:41 So it was called the Macro task force.

54:43 It was actually set up originally after Jane's

54:45 disappearance. But it they it ramped, really

54:48 ramped up that they threw so many more resources about it

54:51 after killing. 100 police officers at its peak were

54:54 included in the macro task force.

54:56 So a lot of bodies on, you know, on this job job and not a lot of

55:00 brains putting together. So I mean, look, we wouldn't

55:03 have an outcome to this if that macro task force hadn't been put

55:06 together and the amount of people working on it that they

55:08 had lots of theories they did, they chased everything.

55:11 And to their credit, I think that they did a good job.

55:14 There were certain things that they've looked at back now and

55:16 gone, OK, that maybe wasn't done great, but enough was done good

55:20 enough that it was able to be solved eventually.

55:23 Absolutely. So, and I feel like, you know,

55:25 in terms of like preservation of evidence and all of those things

55:28 that in previously various cases that we've discussed, things

55:31 have gone awry. Yeah, in this case, they've

55:33 handled all of that really well. The cataloguing of evidence the.

55:37 Not losing evidence like sometimes they do in Victoria,

55:40 yeah. Totally like, but even just the

55:42 way that they organized the task force, they they had like teams

55:47 doing different parts of it. Yeah.

55:49 And it really went to what the eventual outcome was now.

55:54 I mean, it was, it was decades down the track, Yes.

55:57 But, you know, they they never stopped working on this.

56:01 No. So I think the first line of

56:03 investigation for them was taxi drivers.

56:06 Yeah. In all instances, all girls said

56:09 to their friends before they left, I'm gonna get a taxi.

56:11 Home yeah and obviously we've got the the call from Sarah

56:14 Spears particularly confirming that that you know that they so

56:17 they they definitely were thinking well this sounds like

56:20 it could be a taxi driver who's which you know a woman on your

56:23 own you think you're safe you're getting into a taxi at this

56:25 point that yeah it was a fair way to go in terms of looking at

56:28 OK are these women getting into taxis and these taxi drivers

56:31 taking advantage of the fact that he's got is he is he

56:34 actually a taxi driver or is he just pulling up and seeing these

56:36 girls and he's got his car marked that way and then you

56:39 know so there's a lot of things that went on at this point in

56:41 terms of regulating the taxis too.

56:45 It actually sparked a whole overhaul of the entire industry

56:49 to ensure safety of everybody from taxi drivers.

56:53 Turns out wasn't a taxi driver but I mean I think that was

56:56 amazing what came out of that in terms of safety with I mean more

57:00 and more need that now we've got other companies coming into play

57:03 where back then it was only limited to very few taxi

57:06 companies. But yeah they overhauled what

57:08 kind of if there was I think it was it was a certain level of if

57:13 you've had convictions you know certain.

57:15 Convictions. You couldn't be a taxi driver

57:17 also if there was, you couldn't just decommission a taxi car and

57:22 and leave it marked. It had to be completely redone

57:25 so that it was clean of all taxi signature on it so that people

57:29 couldn't be picked up by cars that weren't were mismarked.

57:31 Yeah, so. The way they they did this was

57:34 incredible, but they asked for taxi drivers to volunteer DNS

57:39 samples. Thousands of taxi drivers had

57:42 DNA samples taken. Because if you didn't do

57:44 anything, you would have just been and you would.

57:46 Have clear your industry too, because I think it was out in

57:48 the media that you know, what if a taxi driver's done this, then

57:51 people were scared to use taxis. I mean, as a, a female on your

57:54 own with this, this happening, I mean, not just in that area.

57:58 You it would spark for everyone across Australia.

58:00 I think going, hey, you know what, Don't get in a cab by

58:03 yourself because yeah, taxi drivers could be doing this.

58:06 You know what I find funny though?

58:07 In collecting all of these DNA samples, fingerprints and

58:11 everything that they did from these taxi drivers, they

58:13 actually found 87. They were able to solve 87 other

58:17 cases of things of where fingerprints.

58:19 I'm like, if you've done a crime, why are you volunteering

58:21 your fingerprints, you dickheads?

58:24 But I think they thought that they were.

58:26 Only going to actually that case.

58:28 But they actually were able to solve it.

58:29 I think it was. I think it was 87.

58:30 Oh that's amazing. Geez, some taxi drivers are into

58:33 some shit. Aren't.

58:33 They. Yeah.

58:34 And they ended up needing to decommission roughly 50, I

58:38 think, based on their crimes. So yeah, you're right, it meant

58:42 an overhaul, but it also meant that, yeah, people were a little

58:46 bit scared of taxi drivers. What I find really interesting,

58:50 and we find this out throughout the the trial.

58:53 So the trial happened in 19, sorry in 2019, but it wasn't

58:59 until then that we actually found out that right from when

59:03 Sarah Spears went missing, a tell.

59:07 Well, it was a, it was actually already rebranded to Telstra.

59:11 A Telstra car was identified as being seen in the area at that

59:16 time. And that was the exact.

59:18 Same thing happened, yeah, with the disappearance of Jane Rimmer

59:24 and Kyra Glennon. That wasn't connected up till

59:26 too late unfortunately. Yeah, and it was never reported.

59:30 Yeah. So everyone's thinking it's a

59:32 taxi driver. In all three circumstances there

59:35 have been sightings of this pale coloured Telstra vehicle and

59:42 that was never communicated in the media.

59:45 I don't even think the police actually put it out in anything.

59:48 And that's, it's such an A bias within obviously the police

59:54 force at the time to be going, oh, taxi driver, taxi driver

59:59 couldn't be a Telstra worker. But this is this is a lot to me.

1:00:02 This is the. Thing that Kira Glennon's dad

1:00:05 says Yeah, he's like if they had of put this out when they knew

1:00:09 about it, maybe Kira would be alive today.

1:00:12 Yeah, I don't know. Because maybe the Telstra

1:00:15 vehicles, you know, pulled up there, she would be like, oh,

1:00:18 no, no, no, Nope. Whereas, you know, everyone's

1:00:21 being a bit cautious of a taxi driver instead of maybe a

1:00:23 Telstra driver going hey, rather than get the taxi, come to my

1:00:26 car instead because I'm safer. Which, yeah, wrong.

1:00:31 Interesting. So the first suspect, yes.

1:00:34 Oh, this guy, His name is Lance Williams.

1:00:38 In April 1998, he was arrested. No.

1:00:43 No, just interviewed and they, they surveilled him for a long

1:00:46 time, like years. Yeah, yeah, he was by the police

1:00:51 as their prime suspect. Odd, odd bloke.

1:00:54 Odd. But he, he took it upon himself

1:00:57 to like he with all this going on that he was like, oh, got to

1:01:00 protect everyone, which I mean, beautiful.

1:01:03 But he would drive around like saying to women, you know, we're

1:01:08 getting my car, I'll drive you and stuff.

1:01:09 And he had a pale. And no, he had a, he had a van.

1:01:13 He had a van or a station wagon. A Van Van.

1:01:17 Jeez, man. Yeah, yeah.

1:01:19 Oh God, yeah. But have you seen him in

1:01:20 interviews? Oh my God, yes he is.

1:01:23 I mean, he's quirky. Yeah, yeah, And look very, very

1:01:26 cool. Turns out he meant no harm but.

1:01:29 Oh, he meant no harm. He thought he was doing the

1:01:31 right. Thing.

1:01:32 Oh, absolutely. 30 laps of, you know, Cottesloe and.

1:01:37 I love that it never entered his head though, that this makes me

1:01:40 look weird, like it's like my dad a few like weeks months ago,

1:01:44 whatever it was quite a while ago where he goes.

1:01:46 He drove to his local primary school that he went to and sat

1:01:48 out the front to look at the school.

1:01:50 And I'm like, dad, don't do that.

1:01:53 And he's like, why, what, what, why?

1:01:55 What's wrong with that? I'm like old bloke sitting in

1:01:57 the car outside of a primary school.

1:01:59 Like don't do that. Like it's the same sort of vibe

1:02:02 but same would've. Taken your number plate down a.

1:02:04 100% someone took down your number plate and.

1:02:07 They're just keeping it just in. Case, yeah, he was totally

1:02:09 innocent in what he was doing. No thought process whatsoever to

1:02:12 the thought of like, you know, that people would think that's

1:02:14 weird. When you're innocent, you don't

1:02:16 think of it in that context, I suppose.

1:02:18 No. So the police were surveilling

1:02:21 him, as we said, for years and years.

1:02:24 And when they arrested him to interview him, he just from the

1:02:30 get go maintained his innocence. Yeah.

1:02:32 And in some of the questioning, I, I saw an interview with his

1:02:37 mom. And his mom basically said the

1:02:40 police said to him, come on, mate, just admit it.

1:02:42 You know, you've got nothing to lose.

1:02:44 Now we know. We know everything.

1:02:47 And he said to his mom apparently, like, I don't, I

1:02:50 can't admit to something I didn't do.

1:02:52 And she was, she was interviewed by one of the news outlets, and

1:02:57 they basically thought normal, yeah, of course the mom's gonna

1:02:59 back what the kid says. Then they decided to go and

1:03:02 interview him. So after he'd been released,

1:03:05 because they had nothing to hold him on, they had nothing

1:03:07 substantial? No.

1:03:08 Other than he's just acting odd. Acting odd, the surveillance

1:03:11 turned up nothing. Like.

1:03:12 Yes, he actually said that he stopped going out because on a

1:03:16 Friday and Saturday night because he'd always be being

1:03:19 followed by the like, he knew he was being surveilled.

1:03:22 Yeah. And so he's like, I just didn't

1:03:23 go out on Friday and Saturday night.

1:03:25 Yeah, Yeah. Go ahead and do it Other times I

1:03:27 think so. Pick up.

1:03:29 Try and pick up women and tell them not to.

1:03:30 Walk. He was really odd.

1:03:32 Really. Really.

1:03:33 Odd but it took until 2008 for the cops to clear him though.

1:03:36 Like 10 years they were. They had him on their radar.

1:03:38 And watching him, reviewed him at length six different times

1:03:42 over that time, and his story never changed.

1:03:44 Yeah, so. Interesting guy.

1:03:48 He died in 2018, so 10 years after he was sort of no longer a

1:03:52 person of interest. Yeah.

1:03:54 So I don't know. I guess he had 10 years of

1:03:56 freedom towards the end there. But I think he really, it was

1:03:59 very limiting for him. He was a public servant and he

1:04:02 he said he'd go to work, come home.

1:04:04 And he was kind of a bit of a recluse in the end because of

1:04:07 all of this and because people thought it was him.

1:04:09 Yeah, yeah. It was no, you know, it was

1:04:11 made. Public, yeah.

1:04:13 And yeah, so they had some in there on there that they're

1:04:16 looking at. Yeah.

1:04:17 And it wasn't, it wasn't him. Wasn't.

1:04:19 Him. Yeah.

1:04:20 Hence, normally it'll be a weirdo.

1:04:22 Yep, just a regular run-of-the-mill weirdo.

1:04:25 Yeah, that's it. In 2006, a British guy, Mark

1:04:30 Dixie, was on their radar of of being a potential suspect, but

1:04:34 he was ruled out pretty quickly. Yeah, so he was.

1:04:38 He'd murdered other people, though, so.

1:04:40 But yeah, no, he wasn't. He wasn't the guy either.

1:04:43 And. Then didn't they for for a

1:04:46 little while they had Bradley. Oh my God, Edward.

1:04:51 No. What?

1:04:52 Oh my God. Now I'm getting my serial

1:04:54 killers mixed up. Yes.

1:04:57 Murdoch, yeah, on their list. Was it Bradley Murdoch?

1:05:02 I think it was. They had him on their list for a

1:05:04 little while, but then they ended up ruling him out.

1:05:07 Oh, that's right, because he was actually in prison for not for

1:05:11 Sarah Spears, but he was in prison over the Jane Rimmer, the

1:05:16 time that Jane Rimmer and Kyra Glennon were they when they

1:05:21 disappeared. Yeah, yeah.

1:05:23 They had, I think they ended up having over 100 suspects on

1:05:27 their list at some point. And obviously we're working to

1:05:31 eliminate as they went through. Yeah, it wasn't until December

1:05:37 2016 that they arrested Bradley Robert Edwards in relation to

1:05:45 the murders of Jane Rimmer and Kyra Glennon.

1:05:48 Yes. Now we were talking about this

1:05:50 before we hit record because the mechanism by which they arrested

1:05:54 him is really fascinating. Yeah.

1:05:56 Yeah. Now I is it worth now going back

1:05:59 a little? Bit I think we should go back as

1:06:01 to why he, why this triggered that, yeah.

1:06:05 So in do you? Want to start that one?

1:06:07 All good SO. This was in 1998, wasn't it?

1:06:10 The Caracatta. 1988 was the first one.

1:06:12 Yep Yep. So.

1:06:13 In 1988 he perpetrate. We now know and he has admitted

1:06:19 to and has. He pled guilty to that one.

1:06:21 Guilty too. Yeah, the rape of a 17 year old

1:06:25 girl at Caracatta Cemetery. He was. 19 himself at the time.

1:06:29 Yep, Yep. So he basically she was walking

1:06:34 home, I believe he took her like grabbed her from behind, grabbed

1:06:38 her shoulders, put a sorry. In her mouth, that one.

1:06:42 Actually, No. What you're talking about is

1:06:44 1990. 50 No, sorry. Sorry, we're gonna do it.

1:06:46 So 1988 he broke into an 18 year old's home.

1:06:51 Sorry. Yep, in Huntingdale.

1:06:53 Sorry. All good.

1:06:54 So again, still WA. He was wearing a women's 9090

1:06:59 when he broke in. And a kimono.

1:07:02 Yeah, and a kimono. And after he was.

1:07:04 So he was caught. The father actually caught him

1:07:06 in the act. And he was wearing black

1:07:08 stockings. Yeah, yeah, OK, You do you.

1:07:13 So anyway, in the moment of the, the father sort of broke into

1:07:17 found, you know, because she was screaming and all this.

1:07:19 So he and he fled from that scene in the in fleeing from the

1:07:22 scene, he left behind a silk kimono.

1:07:26 And on that silk kimono was semen.

1:07:30 So they had DNA. So this is 88 though.

1:07:32 So DNA is not really a thing yet, but good policing.

1:07:38 They did keep that evidence and they stored it correctly and it

1:07:42 was put aside. So nothing can be done with it

1:07:45 at that point. But this became like he's it's

1:07:48 his first known violent attack. That is, yeah, known A.

1:07:53 Couple of weird things about this one, right?

1:07:55 Yeah. So first of all, he knew her.

1:07:58 Yeah. He'd been to high school with

1:07:59 her. He was friends with her brother.

1:08:01 Yeah. So he was 19 and she was 18.

1:08:03 So they were very, Yeah, in the same age bracket.

1:08:05 And yeah, they'd been. He'd been to their house as into

1:08:09 the front door, but had never been officially inside, but

1:08:14 somehow sort of roughly knew the layout of the house.

1:08:16 Now, her recollection of this is fascinating to me.

1:08:20 So this happened the day, the night of Valentine's Day.

1:08:25 Yep. So she'd spent the entire day

1:08:27 with her boyfriend. She'd made her boyfriend shave

1:08:30 in the morning. And because they were spending

1:08:33 the day together and she she said, you know, I wanted to kiss

1:08:35 him a lot. It was Valentine's Day, so I

1:08:37 made him shave in the morning. I love that for her.

1:08:40 Anyway, they'd by the end of the day, they'd actually had a bit

1:08:43 of a disagreement and the boyfriend left the house.

1:08:45 So they'd I think they'd gone to bed or something ready, but

1:08:48 they'd had a disagreement and he left.

1:08:50 Yes, she was asleep in bed and she felt someone get into bed

1:08:55 and she assumed. That was her boyfriend coming

1:08:57 back to like, apologize. Or whatever.

1:08:59 She thought it was a bit weird because he was quite, he was

1:09:02 rougher than she would have expected him to be.

1:09:05 Yeah. Putting his arms around her,

1:09:07 like holding her very tightly. Yeah.

1:09:10 She then thought that he'd put the doona cover kind of over her

1:09:14 face, but it was actually a a rag that was put over her face.

1:09:20 Yes, to try and muffle the sounds.

1:09:22 And when that happened, she kind of reached behind her to feel

1:09:27 who it was or what was going on. Yeah.

1:09:29 She felt stubble on the face. And she's like, ohh.

1:09:32 And that immediately shocked her in because she made her

1:09:34 boyfriend shave that morning. Yes.

1:09:36 She was like, Oh my God, that's not him.

1:09:37 She called out for the dad, and that's when the dad called him

1:09:39 in. Yes.

1:09:40 You're right, yes. And was also was there something

1:09:43 on the rag that like something a little bit to make her

1:09:46 potentially there a smell to that rag or something?

1:09:48 She was like sure, because I remember hearing her say I don't

1:09:51 something else like I've tried not to breathe then because I

1:09:53 didn't want to breathe in what was on the rag or something.

1:09:56 OK, I'm not. Yeah.

1:09:57 I'm not sure about that. Yeah, but I know like in further

1:10:01 perpetrations of things, he always used to rag to either

1:10:04 shove in their mouth to, yes, stop them from making a noise.

1:10:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool.

1:10:09 Sorry I got that. No, that's.

1:10:10 Good. Sorry.

1:10:11 Yeah, So 99 that was that occurred there.

1:10:14 There was then another incident in 1990 where he was actually

1:10:18 convicted of this one. So he attacked a social worker

1:10:21 at Hollywood Hospital, Hollywood Private Hospital, and it was an

1:10:24 awful aggressive attack in the hospital.

1:10:27 He pulled her into a room and attacked her.

1:10:31 He didn't quite get to any sexual act on her anything like

1:10:36 that. There was people that were able

1:10:37 to intervene and she escaped him.

1:10:39 But he was convicted of that assault, so I don't know how

1:10:43 long he spent in jail for that or if it was.

1:10:45 He didn't. So what actually.

1:10:46 So she he was working at the Hollywood Hospital.

1:10:50 So he was a Telstra field worker.

1:10:52 That's right. And he was working at the

1:10:54 Hollywood hospital upgrading their PABX system.

1:10:58 And so he was there in a professional capacity in

1:11:01 uniforms. Yeah.

1:11:02 She was in a really quiet part of the hospital making case

1:11:05 notes or something, as you were saying.

1:11:07 And he's, he went in like saying to her, oh, can you tell me

1:11:11 where the toilet is? And then he's attacked her and

1:11:14 whatever, not on whatever, but attacked her at that, that event

1:11:17 that you just described took place.

1:11:19 Yeah. He was then detained by security

1:11:24 because they heard her screaming.

1:11:26 He was detained by security until the police got there.

1:11:30 The police took him to the station and interviewed him that

1:11:33 night. So this apparently the attack

1:11:34 happened at about 4:00 PM that night.

1:11:38 He was interviewed and charged and then about a month later

1:11:45 appeared in court where his sentence was two years of

1:11:49 probation and he had to attend a mandatory sex offenders like

1:11:54 rehab course. Yeah.

1:11:56 Now he wasn't actually convicted of a sex offence.

1:11:59 No, he's only convicted of common.

1:12:01 Assault, yes. So, so no DNA was taken or

1:12:05 anything like that at this point.

1:12:07 So here. But he was at least convicted.

1:12:10 But he didn't spend so no time. It was all either suspended or

1:12:14 it was all probation. It was all.

1:12:15 Probation, right? Probation, Yeah.

1:12:18 Awful. I mean to them that was his

1:12:19 first offence. Yes, yeah.

1:12:21 So yeah, to them. All basically got off with the

1:12:24 caution. Now the other interesting thing

1:12:26 about this is that his workplace never found out about it.

1:12:30 This is. I think that's right.

1:12:31 Yeah, they never notified Telstra.

1:12:33 Hold on. Why wouldn't they do that?

1:12:36 And they now know because, I mean, the when they did this

1:12:38 trial, they were so incredibly thorough.

1:12:41 Yeah, they can. They can.

1:12:44 The prosecution had evidence of the day that he took off work as

1:12:51 an annual leave day, which correlated with the day he went

1:12:55 to court. And so, yeah, he didn't, he

1:12:57 didn't say to work. I've got to go to court, He just

1:13:00 said. I'm having an annual leave day.

1:13:01 So yeah, not even he was admitting anything, obviously,

1:13:04 but. If he then was gonna go to jail,

1:13:06 obviously he would have dealt with that at the time, but I

1:13:08 think he probably would have. Wouldn't you have thought though

1:13:11 that sort? Of said no, you'll probably get

1:13:12 off with a slap on the wrist for this one.

1:13:14 Yeah, but the hospital surely were like we don't want that guy

1:13:16 back here so but. They.

1:13:18 Communicate with Telstra and say hey, this guy's just done this

1:13:22 here and attacked one of our workers.

1:13:24 Don't ever send him back here. He should have lost his job.

1:13:26 He should have lost his job, but he didn't and they never so

1:13:30 Telstra, what a really Telstra have really meticulous phone.

1:13:36 Sorry, meticulous HR record, yes, they can show you every pay

1:13:39 slip he's ever had, every leave form he's ever submitted.

1:13:44 That's crazy. Every every uniform he's ever

1:13:46 ordered, everything is in his file.

1:13:50 And any disciplinary action he's ever received like speeding,

1:13:53 fines, all those things. Yeah, there was nothing about

1:13:56 this Hollywood and even Hollywood Hospital don't even

1:13:59 have record having. Yeah.

1:14:00 So they just think that. There was never no communication

1:14:03 between the two of like it occurring, which is again, I

1:14:06 mean, it's one of those things, isn't it?

1:14:07 But. Would Hollywood Hospital have

1:14:09 assumed that the police would do it?

1:14:11 Yeah, assumption of someone of someone reporting this to the

1:14:14 other. Yeah.

1:14:15 I mean, I can't imagine that happening today.

1:14:17 Like no, like between, you know, a contract like that in any

1:14:22 workplace, having someone contracted out to do that, not

1:14:25 communicating with that company. And I don't know, that's it

1:14:28 seems like such a a balls up there in terms of a point of

1:14:32 entry in terms of this being something.

1:14:34 I don't know what would have come if he lost his job.

1:14:36 Not to say he wouldn't have perpetrated other crimes, but at

1:14:40 least he wasn't having his Telstra, you know, persona of

1:14:43 like protection. You know what I mean?

1:14:45 That Yeah, because you just. Trust a person in uniform?

1:14:48 Yeah, like somebody who's in any in a uniform.

1:14:50 I tell my kids all the time if you know, if you're stuck or

1:14:52 anything, you look for someone in a uniform, you know, like

1:14:54 it's who you look for to help you.

1:14:56 Yeah. Yeah, because you're

1:14:57 representing a company, you think you're gonna be on your

1:14:59 best behaviour. Yeah.

1:15:02 So the next one that is known to him is then in 19 February 12th,

1:15:07 1995, he abducted and raped a 17 year old girl in Claremont.

1:15:13 So this was he took her to the Caracatta Cemetery.

1:15:18 And so this was sort of, I think this is the one really broke

1:15:21 open the case a little bit. So by 1995, DNA was a little bit

1:15:25 more of a thing. This poor girl who went through

1:15:28 this, it was horrific, but she did survive it.

1:15:31 There was DNA collected at that scene but it wasn't until I

1:15:37 believe the 20. Not 2016 entirely but probably I

1:15:41 can't remember what year it was, they finally put it in the

1:15:43 database. Oh, I think that was, oh, I

1:15:47 actually think it was early 2016.

1:15:49 Right. I thought they had him

1:15:50 surveilled. They were already surveilling

1:15:52 him, weren't they? Surveilling.

1:15:53 Him. So right, they had him on on the

1:15:55 radar, but separately to that, these the DNA from from Kira was

1:16:02 put into the database and ping it went it matched.

1:16:08 It matched DNA that was already in the system, not DNA that they

1:16:11 knew who it belonged to, but they were hang on a second.

1:16:16 This DNA has committed other crimes.

1:16:19 So from there it connected it up with this 1995 attack on this 17

1:16:24 year old girl. Mm hmm.

1:16:25 That there was DNA evidence for it also connected it up to the

1:16:30 1988 one where the kimono was left.

1:16:32 That's right. So here this they, they've got

1:16:35 this to say right? There's an an escalation in

1:16:37 obviously in attacks in that that's not murder, but this,

1:16:41 this perpetrator has done more crimes in the past before

1:16:45 becoming what they they knew as the Claremont serial killer.

1:16:49 That's right. So basically from this point

1:16:51 they were, as you were saying, they were already had this

1:16:54 Bradley Edwards on their radar and were he had already red

1:16:58 flagged in terms of the Telstra stuff they'd already connected

1:17:01 that had they? They had, so, yeah, what they

1:17:04 did was because they knew that these Telstra, so we've got

1:17:07 they, they started this Telstra Living Witness project.

1:17:11 And so they knew based on a like, I'm talking hundreds of

1:17:16 people, I think in the end maybe 25 or 30 ended up giving

1:17:22 evidence in the trial. These they so-called Telstra

1:17:25 Living Witnesses. Yeah.

1:17:26 All that means is these are women who were either approached

1:17:31 by somebody in a Telstra vehicle, got in a car with a

1:17:36 person in a Telstra vehicle, who then lived to tell the tale.

1:17:40 Yeah. And what they were able to do

1:17:43 was match him because they knew that this perpetrator drove a

1:17:50 Telstra car. They then Ross referenced all

1:17:55 Telstra employees who who drove this particular type of station

1:17:59 wagon. Now by this stage with Sarah

1:18:01 Spears he was driving a Toyota Camry station wagon.

1:18:05 He then got a new car which was AVS Commodore Series 1 Holden

1:18:11 Commodore station wagon. Again both light coloured, both

1:18:15 with the. Telstra.

1:18:17 Logos on them and yes, so they were able to then go right,

1:18:23 we've got a Telstra worker which Telstra workers in this city who

1:18:27 have this particular type of car have a conviction for something

1:18:30 else. Let's start there.

1:18:32 And they found Bradley Edwards name because he had already been

1:18:39 convicted of the Hollywood hospital attack.

1:18:42 In 1990. 1990 So that's what got him on their radar to start

1:18:45 with. That's right.

1:18:46 Then they were like, they were surveilling him for a while and

1:18:49 they were like, oh, this guy. There is something a bit odd

1:18:52 with this guy, with his movements, with where he's

1:18:54 going, because his movements didn't always, in fact often

1:18:58 didn't correlate with the job that he was going to.

1:19:01 But they had all this tower data too, because he worked for

1:19:03 Telstra. He was always around Claremont,

1:19:06 Claremont, but he was around the cell towers.

1:19:09 And so they were able to pinpoint him and his movement

1:19:11 for over years of this. It was amazing work that they

1:19:14 did in terms of and pain. Oh yeah, yeah.

1:19:17 Which is where that, you know, these 100 people that were on

1:19:19 this macro task force really came to the fore and they needed

1:19:22 all those people to do those jobs.

1:19:24 So they followed him one night to a movie theatre where he had

1:19:28 a can or a bottle of Sprite and they he threw that in the bin

1:19:33 and they picked the can out and they were able to get his DNA

1:19:37 profile from that can. They then obviously ran that and

1:19:41 it pings. So that's how they were like,

1:19:44 right, we've got our guy, let's arrest.

1:19:46 Him, yeah. So that connected him to Kira,

1:19:50 which ultimately then connects him to potentially then Jane and

1:19:54 Sarah it but it definitely connected him to those previous

1:19:58 ones of 1988 and the 1995 attacks where women were

1:20:01 survived, but but there were assaults.

1:20:04 That's right. So they originally arrested him

1:20:07 and charged him with the two murders of Jane and Kira because

1:20:11 obviously we don't have a body for Sarah.

1:20:13 This is that makes it a far more challenging case.

1:20:17 So they needed to work on that one a bit more before they could

1:20:19 charge him. But they could certainly charge

1:20:22 him immediately on the 1988 and 1995 attacks as well.

1:20:26 It wasn't until 2017 that they finally had enough to be able to

1:20:31 place the charge on him for Sarah Spears as well.

1:20:34 Even though the DPP, the prosecutor at the time, she did

1:20:39 say that she felt though as though they had evidence and

1:20:46 they had propensity evidence, which we'll talk about in a

1:20:49 minute. They had evidence.

1:20:52 But she did understand in presenting this to the court

1:20:56 that it may not meet that burden of proof required in order to

1:21:01 convict for Sarah. But they had.

1:21:03 She had to give it a go. Yeah, absolutely.

1:21:06 They didn't have anything else. No, no.

1:21:09 Right. So he's arrested in 2016.

1:21:14 A trial date was set for November 2019.

1:21:18 Because at this point he was pleading not guilty to every

1:21:21 charge, which kind of in some ways blows my mind that he did

1:21:25 because we had DNA and DNA doesn't lie like, and he.

1:21:28 So that kind of flawed me that he was, yeah, pleading.

1:21:32 But I think, I think because if he plead guilty to those crimes

1:21:39 that they had proof for, then he's obviously.

1:21:41 Guilty of everything? Exactly.

1:21:43 So but then also I understand why he ended up doing what he

1:21:46 did because his lawyer. Would have.

1:21:49 Yeah, I'm sure they were like. Dude, dude, you really need to

1:21:52 do this. Yeah, three weeks before the

1:21:54 trial was set to start, he pled guilty to all the non murder

1:21:57 related charges. So he pled guilty to the

1:21:59 Caracata rape. Yeah, the attack, the kimono

1:22:03 attack, Yeah. And yeah, they, they, yeah.

1:22:07 They were the only ones he plead guilty to and then everything

1:22:09 else for the murders he plead not guilty.

1:22:11 I think they charged him twice for rape with the 17 year old

1:22:15 Caracatta case. So it was actually.

1:22:17 Three charges that he did plead guilty to, Yeah, but yeah.

1:22:21 But still not guilty to the murders, which I mean, like they

1:22:25 had an. It was, to me, it was an open

1:22:26 shut case with the DNA in there and it was they had a very

1:22:30 strong case, particularly for Keira.

1:22:33 Oh, absolutely. And then obviously then the the

1:22:36 fact of like if you're guilty for that high chance of being

1:22:39 guilty for the others. So yeah, was an interesting, the

1:22:43 trial was so fascinating because the evidence was so strong.

1:22:47 So strong the trial was a judge alone trial in the end.

1:22:51 So I love that we last week discussed this like with the

1:22:53 Chris Dawson one that we said, you know, like there's so few

1:22:57 judge only trials and then we come to this week and it's

1:22:59 another judge only trial, but they are few and far between

1:23:02 these very much. So, yeah, but this one was

1:23:04 again, understandable because that you wouldn't have been able

1:23:07 to find a person in Perth who didn't know the intimate details

1:23:11 of all of this. Yeah.

1:23:11 The other thing that just the justice said in granting a judge

1:23:15 alone trial was that the burden on a jury in this case would

1:23:20 have been immense. So seven months of their lives,

1:23:24 they probably would have had to have been sequestered for that

1:23:27 time given the nature of the case.

1:23:30 Yes, They also, the things they had to see and hear would have

1:23:37 caused undue mental stress. Now, I imagine being a juror at

1:23:41 the best of times anyway, that is a really horrible thing, you

1:23:45 know, potentially depending on the case to have to sit through.

1:23:47 Yeah. But in this case in particular,

1:23:50 because there was so much to it and this man inflicted so much

1:23:56 pain. And I'm not just talking on his

1:23:58 murder victims, I'm talking on the Caracatta victim, which all

1:24:01 came into the fore as well. Yeah, yeah.

1:24:04 So, yeah, it was decided that he was.

1:24:08 His application for a judge alone trial was granted, which I

1:24:11 think was the right call. Yeah.

1:24:13 So it was presided by Justice Stephen Hall.

1:24:16 He is amazing. Unbelievable.

1:24:18 His verdict? His verdict?

1:24:21 Was 619 pages long was his, his verdict, which I mean, when

1:24:26 we're just saying that it was, it's to me it was fairly a

1:24:27 fairly clean cut. You know, like this is fairly

1:24:30 evident that he was guilty of this.

1:24:33 To then write a 619 page document as to why he believed

1:24:38 his him to be guilty of this is amazing.

1:24:41 The unfortunate thing of this is that yes, he was found guilty of

1:24:46 the assaults, the three of those which obviously he pled guilty

1:24:49 to, but he felt he was found guilty of the murder of Jane

1:24:52 Rimmer and Keira Glennon. Unfortunately.

1:24:55 And he stated very clearly in his in his final verdict that he

1:24:59 couldn't find him guilty of the murder of Sarah Spears.

1:25:04 But that didn't make him innocent of it.

1:25:07 So he just said that there wasn't enough there to be able

1:25:10 to convict him of that. Proof, yeah.

1:25:13 But it was very, very clearly mapped out in his verdict that

1:25:17 it was his. It was his belief still that he

1:25:19 did do it. Yeah, but unfortunately, need

1:25:21 more. And like a body would help.

1:25:23 But in which he has never to this day come forward on with

1:25:27 any information in regards to Sarah Spears.

1:25:29 He's not spoken on it at all. So it's awful for her family

1:25:33 that they have no outcome that I mean, you know who did it, you

1:25:38 know who did it, they. Feel validated, Yeah.

1:25:40 So in seeing her family interviewed, they feel validated

1:25:44 by the fact that he's in prison. And they kudos to the judge for

1:25:47 how he wrote. I think that verdict that it

1:25:49 probably gave them a bit of that, you know?

1:25:50 Yeah. I think they're also really well

1:25:52 supported by the families of the other two girls.

1:25:55 Oh yeah. And they fully see what happened

1:25:58 to Sarah in the exact same light as what happened to their to

1:26:01 their family, you know, to their family members as well.

1:26:06 So the trial was really interesting in that they were

1:26:11 able because it was a judge alone trial, they were able to

1:26:13 use propensity evidence to convict.

1:26:16 And what that means is they were able to introduce.

1:26:19 So if there was a jury, they probably wouldn't have been able

1:26:22 to do this because it would bias the jury.

1:26:24 But you can't, you can't bias a judge.

1:26:26 Yes. So they were able to bring this

1:26:28 into evidence that, you know, of the previous rape trial, the

1:26:33 previous rape and attempted rapes and assaults that had come

1:26:37 up in his past went to the propensity for him to then

1:26:41 commit a further murder and a, sorry, an escalation of what, of

1:26:45 what he'd done in the past. Yes, There was also a lot of DNA

1:26:49 evidence that was used. So we're talking about Edward's

1:26:53 DNA was found under Keira Glennon's thumbnail and middle

1:26:57 fingernail. When Paul Yovitch, who was the

1:27:02 defence lawyer, when he was asked about how that got there,

1:27:05 he said I don't know, did. He have a scar on his face still

1:27:10 to that day of. Mark, I don't know, I'm not, you

1:27:13 can't quite see it, right? But I believe there is a mark

1:27:16 there to this day, but I haven't, there's no like close

1:27:21 up. I mean, we don't have court TV,

1:27:23 we don't have anything like that in Australia, so.

1:27:26 You don't get real great. It's grainy the the the the

1:27:29 photos of the emoji. Quarter terrible, Yes.

1:27:32 From really far away, Yeah, so. But apparently, according to

1:27:36 people who've seen him, there is still a mark on his face.

1:27:38 Yeah. Fucking good because so

1:27:42 obviously there was a big gap between 1997 and 2016 when he's

1:27:47 arrested and there were no further murders in this light.

1:27:51 So interesting why it stopped and there's a lot of sort of

1:27:56 like ideas around that. One being that he did get

1:28:00 married shortly after Kira's murder, which people sort of

1:28:05 it's sort of his taken that maybe, you know, he the marriage

1:28:09 then fulfilled certain desires that he had and therefore

1:28:13 murder. He wasn't seeking it out.

1:28:15 Another idea of being that with the up, the ramping up of the

1:28:18 police, the media, it spooked him and the fact then that Kira

1:28:23 was managed to overpower him at points, obviously to the point

1:28:26 where he was injured in that and got scratched so badly that

1:28:30 whether he would have known at that .0 gosh, there's evidence

1:28:32 now under her fingernails. I don't think that he was clue

1:28:35 enough to put that together and go that body now contains

1:28:39 evidence and links to me. But certainly the idea of like,

1:28:42 oh crap, maybe I could get, you know, have one of these attacks

1:28:45 where someone sees me and gets away that maybe gave him a

1:28:48 fright. So therefore he, you know,

1:28:50 backed away from some of these these attacks.

1:28:54 The prosecution also say that the three attacks coincided with

1:28:58 three emotionally distressing events in his life, the first

1:29:02 one being the breakdown of his second marriage.

1:29:06 So he was married twice before the perpetration of.

1:29:13 All of them, yeah. So the it's really weird

1:29:18 situation totally. So his first marry, so first

1:29:21 wife, they just kind of grew apart and whatever they left and

1:29:25 and that sort of was what it was.

1:29:28 One of the time points they say that one of the emotionally

1:29:31 distressing events was he'd actually gone to spend time with

1:29:34 his first wife's family on Australia Day.

1:29:36 Mm hmm. And he'd invited his wife, his

1:29:40 ex-wife, first ex-wife to go and watch the fireworks with him.

1:29:45 And she said no Mm hmm. They they say that was a bit of

1:29:48 a blow to his ego and that was when he perpetrated the first

1:29:52 crime on Sarah. 'S crazy and that's triggered

1:29:54 him enough to go like, I'm going to murder somebody like.

1:29:56 That's right, the second emotion.

1:29:59 Sorry, this is now for the Jane Rimmer case, the breakdown of

1:30:04 his marriage. So this is so fucking weird.

1:30:08 The he, this is what his second wife says.

1:30:13 Anyway, he got a computer. As in Bradley Edwards got a

1:30:17 computer and he then would spend a lot of his time on the

1:30:22 computer doing fuck only knows a lot on.

1:30:24 Us. Well, yeah.

1:30:26 And so much so that they weren't spending any time together.

1:30:30 And so she then found this bloke who she worked with and they

1:30:34 became friendly and he had two kids and she was a, she owned a

1:30:38 horse I think. And so one day she decided to

1:30:42 invite the Co worker and his two children to come and ride the

1:30:46 horses and one thing led to another.

1:30:49 Next minute the the coworker has moved into the spare room.

1:30:56 That's right and. Then, and then it gets better.

1:31:03 One night Bradley Edwards had obviously finished doing

1:31:05 whatever he was doing on the computer and didn't find his

1:31:08 wife. And he goes and he walks in on

1:31:10 them, doing it in the spare bedroom where the the workmates

1:31:15 now renting off them. Yeah, yeah.

1:31:17 So. The workmate then goes, well,

1:31:19 clearly that was a really uncomfortable situation so I

1:31:21 moved out. Oh God.

1:31:23 Was it uncomfortable prior to that?

1:31:24 Oh yeah. What are you so event?

1:31:28 Yeah. And then the third triggering

1:31:30 event, which was around the time very, very close actually to to

1:31:36 Kira Glennons murder, was that she the second wife then fell

1:31:41 pregnant to her Co worker. Yeah.

1:31:44 And he she just informed him of that pregnancy when Kira went

1:31:48 missing. Yeah, yeah.

1:31:49 So they're the three things, 3 emotionally.

1:31:52 Distressing events that. The prosecution claimed yeah

1:31:56 were the trigger points for this and then.

1:31:59 After that, as you said, he's then remarried again.

1:32:02 Yeah. And I think is he, up until not

1:32:04 long before he went to trial, I think they were.

1:32:07 They were together, yeah. I mean it was a strained

1:32:09 marriage from what I could read. About what their what their

1:32:11 relationship was like that there was definitely she, the third

1:32:14 wife. I believe she testified that he

1:32:16 was quite an odd person and that there was aspects of their

1:32:19 marriage that wasn't right. Although she hadn't daughter.

1:32:22 Yeah, there was. So he had stepchildren.

1:32:24 In that marriage, so. And that was the thing, there

1:32:27 was sort of this belief that, you know, he married her and

1:32:28 became a bit of a family man because he did have two

1:32:31 different personalities with this.

1:32:32 Like there was obviously this side of him that he had, you

1:32:35 know, had conviction already of like some aggressive, sexually

1:32:38 aggressive behaviours. But in his typical life,

1:32:42 day-to-day, the family man, he was quiet but unassuming.

1:32:48 And so people just assumed he was.

1:32:50 Wasn't he like a little athletics coach?

1:32:52 Yeah, like a football. He.

1:32:54 Was involved, got involved with I think.

1:32:55 The third wife's children in that.

1:32:57 Sense or child that you. Know he was yeah, actively

1:33:00 participating in the community just makes you go yeah, big

1:33:05 time. Absolutely.

1:33:08 The other thing that I I really found fascinating during.

1:33:11 The trial was the fibre evidence.

1:33:13 Yeah. So there were 98 fibres found on

1:33:16 the bodies of Jane and Kira and the 17 year old rape survivor.

1:33:22 Yeah, that's all the way back to 1988.

1:33:25 The same fibres. Oh.

1:33:26 No, sorry, this is no, no, sorry.

1:33:28 This is the rape survivor. So the 19. 99595 Rape Yep Yep

1:33:34 so. They were.

1:33:36 Able to now what was the brand Hard Yaka I think it was They

1:33:42 made a special fabric only for Telstra workers in a in a colour

1:33:49 they called Telstra Navy. They never made any other item

1:33:54 of clothing. They you couldn't just buy it at

1:33:56 a retail shop. They had this fabric specially

1:33:59 made. For the Telstra uniforms, you.

1:34:01 Couldn't buy it anywhere else. Nope.

1:34:02 The fibres that they found were fibres from that those

1:34:06 particular shorts. The evidence in the trial goes

1:34:10 so specifically into the types of shorts that he ordered, when

1:34:13 he ordered them, how many pairs he ordered, how many pairs he

1:34:16 had. So we know he had these shorts.

1:34:19 Yep. They also found fibers in Rima,

1:34:24 so in Jane. And here is hair that matched

1:34:28 the seat inserts or the seat coverings.

1:34:31 Yes. In the Holden Commodore station

1:34:34 wagon. Yeah.

1:34:35 And fabric from the floor, like the actual carpet.

1:34:39 Yeah, which is amazing when you think about that.

1:34:42 This isn't like that they've. This, he's perpetrated these

1:34:44 crimes and a couple years later they're taking him to trial. 20

1:34:48 years between that occurring and putting that to trial and having

1:34:52 that, that level of evidence is amazing, Amazing police work and

1:34:57 amazing ability to, you know, store that, that all their not

1:35:01 knowing at the time what they're storing.

1:35:03 They had no idea. They were just doing it to one

1:35:06 day this was all going to come together.

1:35:08 And it did. It really, really did.

1:35:10 Yeah, it's it's incredible. As you said, amazing police

1:35:13 work. Yeah, amazing.

1:35:16 So obviously, as we say on paper with what he's been convicted.

1:35:19 Of it looks like he didn't commit other crimes, right?

1:35:23 This is a man who potentially we look at and go, there's

1:35:25 potential here that he committed other crimes that we're unaware

1:35:28 of. There are three particular ones

1:35:30 that people look at. There are potentially more than

1:35:32 that, but there are three other crimes that people look at that

1:35:35 really questionable as to whether or not he could be the

1:35:38 perpetrator of these. And they dotted across the

1:35:41 timeline really. So we've got Julie Cutler, who

1:35:44 was 22 years of age and she was a student who she left the

1:35:48 Hilton Hotel in Perth of a function that she was at and she

1:35:53 went missing in 1988. So I mean, that looks it like

1:35:57 she was obviously perpetrated other crimes in 1988, but so

1:36:01 she's never been found again. Another one was Lisa Brown, who

1:36:06 was a sex worker and she went missing in 1998.

1:36:09 And there are aspects of her disappearance that link to where

1:36:14 he was at the time and also potentially that.

1:36:18 Yeah, it reads the same way in a lot of ways to the other 3

1:36:22 serial killing murders. I think this is one of the ones

1:36:25 that they sort of think he might be a.

1:36:27 Perpetrator of because they do have that cell phone like that

1:36:30 exactly they know where he was and he was in the area of.

1:36:33 Where she went missing from which?

1:36:35 So there's strong evidence there, but not enough to convict

1:36:38 and things. So.

1:36:40 And then the last one, which is Sarah McMahon, she went missing

1:36:43 in November 8th, 2000. So again, no, never been found.

1:36:49 But again, cell tower information and things like that

1:36:52 put him in the area. There's reason to believe that

1:36:55 he could be linked to that as well.

1:36:57 But he sits in jail and says nothing.

1:37:00 Yeah. So I find it interesting that

1:37:03 his defence. Lawyer Paul Jovic did not call

1:37:07 any witnesses at trial for him. He also didn't testify, which I

1:37:11 totally get. Oh, yeah, yeah.

1:37:12 Should not have testified, no. And even in a lot of ways I

1:37:18 think Paul Yovich was quite respectful of the people he was

1:37:22 cross examining. There were many witnesses,

1:37:25 especially family members and the witnesses who had who he

1:37:31 pleaded guilty to their crimes, he didn't even cross examine

1:37:35 them. No, he chose not to.

1:37:37 So I think in the world of defense law, he was actually

1:37:41 quite respectful, probably knowing what the outcome was

1:37:45 going to be and just his job, I guess, was to throw doubt.

1:37:48 So his whole case was to basically throw doubt into the

1:37:53 DNA evidence because that was the only thing he had even a

1:37:57 slight chance of potentially winning on.

1:37:59 Absolutely. So what he said was and this

1:38:02 this was true. But it wasn't.

1:38:04 Beyond, you know, to the point that was beyond a reasonable

1:38:07 doubt. The.

1:38:09 So all of the DNA was tested in a laboratory called Path West,

1:38:13 and some of the DNA was actually contaminated by the scientists

1:38:18 who tested it. Yeah.

1:38:19 And so he just used that as an argument to potentially throw

1:38:22 doubt. But that didn't discount the

1:38:24 fact that Bradley Robert Edwards DNA was still there.

1:38:28 Like you can be really, really careful, but still have your DNA

1:38:32 potentially mix up with something when you're working on

1:38:35 a sample. So that didn't really go

1:38:38 anywhere. They didn't have anything else

1:38:39 much to, to defend on. So you can't argue within the

1:38:43 the fibres and you know. And then they tried to they

1:38:47 tried to argue the fibres they had an expert from.

1:38:50 The US come over and I think in the so as in the prosecution had

1:38:56 next a fibre expert come over and in the cross examination of

1:38:59 him, yeah, they tried to throw dad into into it, but he he was

1:39:05 really staunch in his in his testimony.

1:39:08 He basically said there is no way this could have come from

1:39:11 anything else. No.

1:39:12 So what do you do with that? Yeah.

1:39:14 Oh. Man.

1:39:16 Yeah, well, he rots in jail. He was sentenced to life

1:39:20 imprisonment with 40 years non parole, but the thought is that

1:39:25 he will never see the light of day.

1:39:26 I highly doubt that. If he did actually make it to

1:39:29 the age of what we'd be 90 something.

1:39:32 Yeah, by the time he's eligible for parole, the case for him to

1:39:38 be get to gain parole at that point I think would be pretty

1:39:41 slim. I don't think he'll get parole

1:39:42 even then, but so he will live out his days in jail.

1:39:47 I hope he's having the worst time ever.

1:39:49 Me too. Suck it because he got 20 years.

1:39:53 Roaming the streets after doing those murders, let alone

1:39:57 potentially others as well. So Nope.

1:40:00 No mate, no man, Nope. Rot in.

1:40:04 Hell, absolutely absolute. Piece.

1:40:08 Of shit, all right. Good job on.

1:40:13 That note. What have we got next week?

1:40:15 Next week? All Looking forward to this one.

1:40:19 We are going to be looking at Chapelle Corby.

1:40:23 We might have a little treat in there for you.

1:40:26 Stay tuned, that one will be very.

1:40:28 I'm really looking forward to this one.

1:40:30 Yeah. And you know what?

1:40:32 This was like one of those cases that.

1:40:33 Divided Australia totally. People have very strong views on

1:40:37 this either way. Yeah, yeah, it'll be a fun one,

1:40:39 A funner one, yeah. Definitely funner.

1:40:42 And at least there's no death, I guess.

1:40:43 Yeah, that's like. That's it.

1:40:45 Yeah, Very good. All right.

1:40:46 Well, thank you everybody again. For joining us, we are just

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1:41:09 Yeah. But yeah, most importantly, hit

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1:41:19 Bring it, bring it. Yeah, all good.

1:41:23 Well, we will see. Everyone again next week with

1:41:25 our Chappelle. Corby story stay curious.

1:41:28 Crime besties. Bye.