Episode 36 - Allison Baden-Clay: Part 1

0:16 Welcome to another episode of Two Crime Besties.

0:19 Everyone. Thanks for joining us today.

0:21 Hello how it going? I'm not bad.

0:23 I'm not bad. It's we've had a few technical

0:25 issues this morning getting well.

0:27 It's actually the afternoon well.

0:28 Yeah, we're feeling we've had a day already.

0:30 Yeah, firstly my camera didn't work, then we had some sound

0:35 issues. Anyway, we're all good now,

0:37 hopefully and yeah, onwards and upwards.

0:40 The tech. We were just saying the tech is

0:42 great. The apps and stuff that we use

0:44 to record a fantastic when they work.

0:46 I'm calling it actually producer Pete's fault.

0:49 Yeah, he's not. He's not here, and he's here.

0:52 We wouldn't need him. Yeah, that's exactly right.

0:55 But you know what? Pat's, Pat's to us.

0:58 We got sort of figured out. Yeah.

1:00 We don't. Maybe we don't need him.

1:02 Maybe. Maybe not.

1:03 Sorry, Peter. No, I wouldn't put that out.

1:04 No, sorry. We appreciate all your help.

1:07 Thank you. Thank you.

1:09 Have you had a good week? Yeah, it's actually this week

1:12 it's been a little bit lighter. I'm feeling like then I know we

1:15 talked last week about, you know, just that overwhelming

1:17 stuff, so much that like, I feel like just even getting that out

1:20 to the universe, I'm actually feeling lighter, like, you know,

1:22 and like moving through the complexities of life that it is.

1:27 We get that. Yeah, I've had had a really busy

1:29 week this week. I feel like I said to one of my

1:33 work friends, she was like, oh, what are you doing?

1:36 I don't normally work on Wednesdays.

1:38 And she goes, oh, what are you doing tomorrow?

1:39 And I said, I've got so much on, I don't even know if I'm going

1:42 to be able to do away. Oh, God.

1:44 You know, I was literally booked from go to woe and there was not

1:47 one second of my day that was unscheduled from literally

1:51 school drop off. And then I had a school council

1:53 meeting that ended at like 8:30 that night.

1:55 And I did not stop the whole day.

1:57 Yeah, and then I was just just before you came, actually, I was

2:01 looking in my calendar for next week, 'cause I'm like, I just

2:03 don't think I can handle another week like like we've had.

2:05 Yeah, but it's fine. Next week's actually easy and

2:08 light on. It just happened to be that all

2:10 those little. Extras.

2:11 Come in, don't say no, but these were all pre planned extras that

2:14 need. Touching wood somewhere that

2:16 yeah, it's not gonna hit the fan.

2:18 And it is better not hit the fan.

2:19 I'm just happy with things to plod along as they are.

2:22 Thanks very much. Yeah.

2:23 Oh God, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, I've had a

2:25 a busy week. It's had, I've had a 12 hour

2:27 day, you know, Wednesday and that sort of stuff.

2:28 But like, yeah, it's just been a bit less.

2:31 I don't know. I don't know a little bit.

2:33 Less and I think I feel like we are now easing into the year

2:37 more. I think so there's a few things

2:39 that are dropping off in terms of like that I've, you know,

2:41 I've ticked off the To Do List, which is just making life a lot

2:44 easier. Yeah.

2:44 Including like this weekend being my son's birthday party.

2:48 Yeah, sort of, you know, as much as like, you know, I'm really

2:50 looking forward to to it for him, like having that.

2:51 But it's kind of like, you know, and then I can take that off my

2:54 mental. Load.

2:54 Yeah, once it's over and done with, yeah, that's it.

2:57 Yeah, once you've been through it.

2:59 Yeah, yeah, it's been a it's been a good week and a relaxing,

3:04 more relaxing week, but still busy.

3:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good.

3:08 Yeah, very. Good.

3:09 I'm looking forward to tonight because we're planning stuff for

3:12 tonight. Yeah, so we're catching up with

3:14 we've, we've found ourselves in a very lovely group of mum

3:17 friends at school and all of our kids were in prep together a

3:22 couple of years ago. And, you know, you just sort of

3:25 find your people and you really click and.

3:28 Same sense of humor. Yeah, it's all.

3:29 So that's all sort of happened. Drinking ability, yeah.

3:33 That's not that's by the vibe, not really.

3:36 And so we've actually decided to go to Tassie for a weekend, a

3:41 long weekend. So we're actually going to get

3:44 together for a really nice meal and I'm hoping a few cocktails

3:47 or something tonight to organize it and book it all, hopefully,

3:51 or at least organize it. Yeah.

3:52 So we, we decided on this because everyone in the group

3:56 bar Meg loves an oyster. Yeah, and I'll take.

4:02 With the the the fact that you're having oysters for the

4:06 company and the wine. And the champagne, yeah, like

4:10 Tassie produces some amazing sparkling.

4:13 That's what I'm. Looking for?

4:13 I'm there for that, yes. Yes, and sparkling wine with

4:16 oysters. Oh my God.

4:18 Oh, I actually can't wait. I'm prepared to like, fully get

4:21 in there and Shuck those oysters for you.

4:23 Oh, thanks. Just to keep the party flowing.

4:26 Sweet, I'm gonna hold you to that.

4:29 Yeah, I'll announce that to everyone tonight.

4:30 Well, that, guys, Meg has volunteered as tribute.

4:33 Yeah, to Shuck all the oysters. Just not fucking sitting one of

4:37 those booger things in my mouth. You've no, no, you don't know

4:43 what you're missing out on. Have you ever actually eaten an

4:46 oyster? No, I actually haven't.

4:47 See. I see.

4:48 So how do you know what you're missing out on?

4:49 It's like. There's not ball in my mouth,

4:51 that's what I mean. There's.

4:52 Not ball in your mouth. See that?

4:54 Get that out of your head. It's like they're deliciously

4:57 like creamy and fresh and oh, they're so good.

5:01 I just love it with a bit of lemon or just is perfection.

5:07 But we went to a lunch, I don't know, just before Christmas.

5:10 Yeah. And we had them with like this

5:13 vinaigrette that was just amazing too.

5:15 So yeah, give them to me however you want.

5:18 I will, I will, you know, down a few.

5:21 Yeah, I know. My dad wasn't like, what is it,

5:23 Kilpatrick with bacon and stuff like that?

5:25 Yeah. I feel like Kilpatrick.

5:28 I mean, you know. Not the real way to eat that.

5:29 No, I just feel like it's too much other 'cause that's with

5:32 Worcester sauce. As well.

5:33 Yeah, I think so, yeah. Or is have you seen those memes

5:37 like those videos and stuff going around of people try to

5:40 pronounce Worcestershire sauce? Yeah, I think it overpowers the

5:47 flavour of the oyster. Uh huh.

5:49 But then I actually went to a restaurant a little while ago

5:52 and they had, it was like a tasting platter of oysters.

5:55 So it had like two of eight tracking and one of them was

5:58 like an oyster in a Mornay sauce.

6:00 And then it was like, you know, torched on top.

6:02 Right. Oh my God, I'm salivating

6:04 thinking about it. It was so delicious.

6:07 Or maybe, maybe I'll have to give it a.

6:09 Just one, yeah. And then if you don't like it,

6:12 down a few champagnes and you. Won't.

6:13 Oh, I care anymore. It'll be fine.

6:18 I'm always in for a bit of a yeah.

6:19 I'll I mean the girls weekend, even without the oysters would

6:23 be this is it amazing? So I think it's gonna be lots

6:27 and lots of fun. Debaucherous.

6:29 It is better be, yeah. Go.

6:33 That's exciting, something to look forward to, and we're going

6:35 sort of a around your birthday. Well, no, I'm claiming it.

6:38 I'm claiming it. Yeah, I think it's my my

6:40 birthday weekend anyway. That way I can justify, justify

6:43 expense. I can justify whatever

6:45 everything goes on it's birthday weekend.

6:46 Yeah. And I was gonna claim it tonight

6:48 with everyone and just say, by the way.

6:50 Yeah. We're actually going away for my

6:52 birthday. It's actually my well, I

6:54 shouldn't maybe put the word delayed in front of it.

6:56 I'll just claim it as my 40th. Yeah, let's do it as your 40th.

6:59 Yeah, yeah. That's that's my thing, yeah, in

7:02 my head, whether you guys are there for it or not.

7:04 And that says I am. Hey, guys, we're celebrating

7:09 Meg's 40th. Plus a couple.

7:14 Yeah, good. Oh gosh.

7:16 We're planning someone else's 40th too, so yeah.

7:19 It's just mental block at the minute.

7:21 Not not because I don't want to turn, no, just lots of other.

7:24 Yeah, I'm trying to just mentally prepare like, you know,

7:27 like plan something. It's the expense of it, like

7:30 everywhere, the places that I've looked at that I'm like, oh, I

7:32 think I'd like to have it there. Yeah, the minimum spends are

7:35 astronomical. And then it.

7:37 Used to be pretty much like, yeah, you put a bit on the bar

7:40 and you've got the venue like. It's not like that anymore.

7:43 You've got like, especially if you want it on a Saturday or a

7:46 Friday night, Yeah, anyway. Yeah, we'll figure it out

7:50 conversations for another time. Yeah, that's it.

7:53 I do have a couple of shout outs.

7:54 Well I shout out for, well, I'm going to say I'm going to call

7:57 it 2 shout outs today. So our delightful receptionist

8:01 at work, she is sunshine in a human being.

8:06 Her name is Joanna. She is so funny and so I just

8:11 love her. She's the best.

8:14 The other day I was walking into into work and, you know, stopped

8:18 and had a bit of a chat and she said that her beautician, she

8:23 got her beautician on to listening to us.

8:25 Oh yeah. And Joanna had recently had an

8:27 appointment and they spent a huge portion of the appointment

8:32 talking about us. And I was like, oh, that's

8:35 lovely, thank you so much. And her and her beautician said

8:41 that she loves us. So a shout out to Shawna,

8:43 Joanna's beautician #1 you do a great job with Joanna because

8:47 she always looks absolutely stunning.

8:49 But #2 thank you, Shana. Love that.

8:52 Yeah. Yeah, we love it.

8:55 Too, I know again, we've had so many people like we had a few, a

8:59 lot of TikTok comments come through this week.

9:02 We've had a bit, bit of an explosion, I think in our

9:04 Beaumont, yeah, in our Beaumont content, because I'm sure people

9:09 have seen in the news that that sort of resurfaced again,

9:12 nothing's really come out yet. So yeah, if there is an update

9:15 to be had, we will have it. But they're basically excavating

9:18 the site that they've already excavated a couple of times

9:20 before they redevelop it. Yeah, in the SO.

9:23 Glad that they're doing that like and.

9:25 I think we've said that in narrative, so didn't we?

9:26 Yeah. Like it's they need to do.

9:29 This. Yeah, because they're sort of

9:30 some like they were they were so long ago now, you know in trying

9:34 to like pinpoint the exact point of where these guys were digging

9:37 that they said they were digging out on the, you know, back when

9:40 it happened. So I mean now that they can just

9:42 have a free reign of the whole site, I think that that's what

9:44 it requires, but it takes some time.

9:47 Sounds awful, but I really hope they find them 'cause I just for

9:51 everyone foreclosure for that. I know that that's, you know,

9:53 their parents have gone, obviously, but you know, it'd be

9:56 nice to know what happened to where they landed up.

9:59 It won't necessarily then give answers as to who, but I mean,

10:03 pretty clear if it's on his site.

10:04 Yeah, like, you know, we can't, you know, you can't

10:06 categorically save with him, I guess.

10:09 But it's a very. Good indicators.

10:11 I mean, there's so, so much other circumstantial evidence

10:13 that points towards him. Anyway, Harry, we're talking

10:16 about Harry Phillips. Yeah.

10:17 And they're excavating an old site that he owned and operated

10:21 a factory. On and they've also linked him

10:22 in terms of familial context, you know, like that there was he

10:27 was like a brother-in-law of a family member like as well.

10:31 So he may have also had a little bit of more of an like they

10:33 won't be able to do that. I would I would have linked him

10:35 in any way back in the day, but now they have that it might make

10:38 it a little bit more I guess an indicator of like the children

10:41 knowing him and therefore feeling comfortable around him.

10:43 Yeah, but just a familiar face so that they'd seen around maybe

10:46 a family function, you know, something like that.

10:48 So. Yeah, yeah.

10:49 Interesting. We'll watch this space.

10:51 If there is a proper update to be done, we will obviously do

10:54 that for sure. Yeah, yeah.

10:56 Fingers. Crossed.

10:57 Yes, definitely. Oh really?

11:00 Yeah, so let's. Get into today's episode.

11:03 Today we are covering the Ellison Baden Clay case.

11:07 So this was this is something that I mean, it absolutely

11:12 happened. I would imagine most people who

11:14 are listening to this podcast would have heard of Allison

11:16 because this case, you know, happened in her murder happened

11:21 in 2012. So it wasn't really that long

11:23 ago. No, And I'm sure people have at

11:26 least heard her name or or have some aspect of this case, you

11:30 know, in their memory somewhere. Yeah, and even like

11:33 internationally sort of a little bit because in in true crime

11:36 world, I know when I was searching let's just for, you

11:39 know, what other things were out there in terms of the

11:41 information. There was a lot of like American

11:43 podcasts that had done stories on this.

11:45 And so one that I clicked on and kind of went, I don't think I

11:49 should listen to that. I don't think I'll understand

11:50 what this. Yeah, yeah, there was quite a

11:52 few internationally have have done this case.

11:56 So I mean we're obviously hoping to bring something a little bit

11:58 different, I guess in conversation.

12:00 How we approach these topics, you know to that, but definitely

12:03 it's fairly well spread. One of this story, one of the

12:06 podcasts I listened to in preparing for today, they it was

12:10 an American podcast. And the man said that, you know,

12:13 he feels like this case is Australia's Scott Peterson case.

12:17 Yeah. And it there are, it does bear a

12:19 lot of resemblances to that. And that is a case that we are

12:22 going to cover in the future. It's on our list.

12:23 So yeah, it's keep that in mind. Yeah, it is it, you know, sort

12:28 of along a similar vein, unfortunately.

12:31 Yeah, unfortunately, that's for sure.

12:32 Before we get started, I think it's probably worth crediting

12:36 David Murray. Yes.

12:37 So he authored a book called The Murder of Alison Baden Clay.

12:41 The byline of the book is all marriages have their secrets,

12:45 which I mean, we all know that to be true, don't we?

12:47 Oh, yeah. You never know what's going on

12:49 behind closed doors, and that is never more evident than in this

12:53 case. And what what has come to light

12:54 since Alison's death? Absolutely.

12:56 David Murray did an exceptional job in researching and writing

13:00 this book. I've been listening to it.

13:03 I haven't quite gotten to the end yet, but I've obviously used

13:06 other things in terms of research as well.

13:08 But I mean, the way he writes about this, it elicits a huge

13:12 amount of sympathy for Alison and the situation that she was

13:18 in. But it also provides a lot of

13:19 background and context to which I found really, really helpful

13:22 because that was that was the stuff I actually found lacking

13:26 in a lot of these podcasts. So that was kind of a little bit

13:28 more about the research that I ended up doing.

13:32 So should we get into it? Let's get into it, I've got lots

13:35 to chat. About Yeah So Ellison June

13:38 Dickey was born on the 1st of July in 1968 in Ipswich so in

13:44 Queensland, Australia. She was born to her dad Jeff and

13:47 her mom Priscilla. Her dad was a, was he a

13:52 firefighter, I think, and did house painting on the side and

13:56 her mum was a librarian at their school, at the kids school.

14:00 So, you know, really lovely family from everything I've

14:02 seen. I mean you can see interviews

14:04 with them on on like YouTube and that kind of thing.

14:07 And they just seem like really lovely, down to earth, genuine

14:10 people. Ellison was second born in the

14:14 family, so she had an elder sister, Vanessa, and a younger

14:18 brother named Ashley. Very close knit family.

14:21 And, you know, they sort of grew up in, I would say a fairly

14:25 stereotypical early Australian, you know, you know, in their 60s

14:30 and 70s, sort of a fairly typical upbringing.

14:33 Nothing stood out. Nothing.

14:35 You know, they just sort of lived their lives.

14:36 And I know Allison had an absolute affinity for ballet.

14:41 Yeah. And at age 10, she auditioned

14:45 for the Australian Youth Ballet. There were 250 kids who

14:48 auditioned, and only 20 chose it, got were chosen.

14:52 She actually didn't quite make it into the top 20.

14:54 I think she was 21 or 22. Yeah.

14:56 So they popped her on an alternate list and somebody

15:00 dropped out or a couple of people dropped out and she

15:01 actually made it onto the team or I don't even know how you

15:05 describe that. Yeah, she was so dedicated to a

15:08 ballet. I think I was reading somewhere

15:11 or maybe it was part of the audio book.

15:15 She would practice for 20 hours a week on top of her schooling.

15:20 So I know one of my work colleagues, her daughter does

15:25 ballet and is really very talented.

15:27 And one of the ballet schools that she was at, the expectation

15:31 was that you would leave. You would do less actual school

15:36 to attend ballet classes. Yeah.

15:38 But I believe this model was a little bit different.

15:40 And Alison was still attending a full day of school.

15:43 Yeah. And then hours and hours of

15:44 practice after school and on the weekend.

15:46 That's. Dedication isn't it at.

15:47 A at an at the age of 10. Yeah, yeah, she.

15:51 Must have loved it. Yeah, or you have to love it.

15:53 Absolutely. And because she then travelled

15:55 overseas, you know, she travelled to the UK, you know,

15:58 with her ballet and things like that.

16:00 And so she was considered very good.

16:02 There was a point where she didn't make it to another level.

16:06 And I remember reading about it and her sort of her response to

16:08 it at the time outwardly, you know, because she had so much

16:12 support from her beautiful family.

16:14 You know, people sort of thought that she took it very well.

16:17 But apparently inside it really, it really hit her hard like that

16:21 she didn't make it. And I can absolutely understand

16:23 that. But all due credit to her family

16:27 then in the fact that she had this resilience about, you know,

16:30 to be able to carry on even though that was a real hard hit

16:33 for her. Yeah.

16:34 So yeah, I mean, lovely family way of being brought up in this

16:39 absolute dedication to something.

16:40 She was really someone who's of a really good standing and

16:44 really good mind on her shoulders.

16:45 Yeah. So I think by the time she

16:47 finished high school, she wasn't in the ballet company anymore.

16:51 Yeah. And at the end of high school,

16:53 she decided to apply for a gap year through the Rotary Club.

16:56 And she was like, basically put on exchange, from what I can

17:00 gather. Yeah.

17:01 I think she went to Denmark. Is that right?

17:03 Oh. Gosh, I didn't read about that.

17:05 Yeah, So she went there for a year.

17:07 She met who was a woman who became a really good friend of

17:11 hers, who she then met up with later on.

17:12 She'll be come back into this story a little bit later on.

17:17 And she, I don't know, she just had a really great time moving

17:21 it up over in Europe and travelling around.

17:23 They did different, they went to different countries and

17:26 experienced lots of different things and I think that really

17:29 ignited a passion for travelling her.

17:31 Love travel? Yeah.

17:32 Yeah. When she returned to Queensland

17:35 after this gap year, she enrolled in the University of

17:38 Queensland into an arts degree, majoring in psychology.

17:43 And she also undertook some Japanese lessons.

17:46 Yeah, during that time like. She became like somewhat fluent

17:50 in about 5 or 6 languages like she's.

17:53 I actually, I actually wrote that down.

17:54 She became fluent in five languages 'cause this astounds

17:58 me. Yeah.

17:58 And they're all really different.

18:00 Yeah. Yeah.

18:00 It was French and German. OK.

18:03 I can sort of see they're similar.

18:04 Ish. Yeah.

18:05 Danish, Swiss, German and Japanese.

18:08 Yeah, Japanese. This like steps out like

18:11 entirely like, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm impressed with anyone

18:15 who can learn additional languages, particularly adults,

18:17 I think. I mean, I watch children who do

18:19 it on the daily and it flaws me. Kids who can like, literally

18:22 talk to another child and, you know, say Mandarin and then turn

18:24 around to the teacher and say, you know, speak to them in

18:27 English. Just and you're losing my mind.

18:29 Little kids, little kids like, let alone adults.

18:31 I just, I am floored by the brain of some people who can do

18:35 that. It really impresses me because

18:36 your brain isn't wide to do that in adulthood.

18:38 It's a real different style of being able to learn.

18:43 Incredible, Amazing. Definitely in a very intelligent

18:45 person, yes. Yeah.

18:47 She enjoyed Japanese so much and the and the culture and wanted

18:53 to sort of immerse herself in it.

18:54 So she ended up doing a year teaching Japanese, teaching

18:58 English in Japan. Yeah.

19:00 And after coming back from that, she was 22 years old, and she

19:04 thought, OK, it's time to really sort of knuckle down now, get

19:07 myself a, a real job. A real job.

19:09 And she ended up actually working at a tourist resort on

19:13 Heron Island. So on the Great Barrier Reef,

19:16 absolutely stunning part of the world.

19:17 I actually didn't know exactly where Heron Island was, so I

19:21 Googled it. Yeah.

19:22 And the photos that come up, I'm like.

19:23 Where are we going? Maybe we should do.

19:26 A girls trip to Heron Island. Yes, please.

19:30 When she was there, she met a scuba diver instructor by the

19:34 name of Ian Drayton. He was a former Australian Army.

19:38 Oh, I think it was quite high up in the Australian Army.

19:40 And they fell in love, you know, really, really quickly.

19:45 Yeah. They, I think Ellison had like a

19:47 six month contract or something to work on the island.

19:50 And at the end of that I think she extended it for a couple of

19:53 months, but then decided right now I want to go back to the

19:55 mainland and, and really get my career going.

19:58 Yeah, and settled down a little bit.

20:00 I mean, she would have only been like 20-3 at the time, but, you

20:03 know, she was ready for that next sort of step in her life.

20:06 So Ian actually moved to the mainland with her.

20:10 So he gave up his like, imagine being a scuba diver, scuba

20:14 diving instructor on the Great Barrier.

20:16 There is no better place in the world.

20:18 This is absolutely, yeah. He would have been living life,

20:20 you know, to what his, you know, career was, was heading towards.

20:23 And he decided to give that up to follow, really, to follow

20:28 Alison, you know, back, to try to follow her dreams.

20:31 Yeah. So.

20:32 Yeah. Yeah.

20:33 That's love, right? Yeah, yeah.

20:35 They rented a house in Brisbane and Ellison got a job at Flight

20:40 Centre as a sales agent originally, so she was doing

20:43 booking flights and all of that and hotels and all of that sort

20:46 of stuff. We've all been to a travel agent

20:48 and know what that entails. And Drayton started working as a

20:53 real estate agent. So, I mean, he didn't really

20:55 have a lot of training that led to a career outside the Army or

20:59 scuba diving. Yeah.

21:00 So he actually had a friend, I think who owned a real estate

21:03 agency and kind of took him on. I think he was actually quite

21:06 good at it. He.

21:07 Was quite good at it apparently. And like, but which is, I mean,

21:09 I think that just says a lot about who he was as a person in

21:12 that he was able to adapt, you know, and obviously like this

21:14 wasn't his absolute skill set, but he was able to do it well

21:18 enough to be able to succeed. And, you know, well enough where

21:21 they bought their own home very short soon after that and then

21:24 ended up buying a second property.

21:27 I mean that between the two of them, they were doing really

21:29 well. And to think, I mean, this is

21:32 what this was in the 90s, early 90s.

21:37 I think they bought, Yeah, actually they bought their first

21:40 home in 1991. Yeah.

21:42 I wrote this down for $95,000. I was gonna say like the prices

21:46 and not only the fact the prices but also like I mean, compared

21:48 to us in Melbourne, I have to say, you know, Queensland prices

21:51 are very different with houses like but still, I mean, still, I

21:55 mean, anyone better buy their own their first home and then

21:57 buy a second one not long after is very.

21:59 Impressive at that age. Like, yeah, so I think 18 months

22:02 after they bought the home they were living in, they bought the

22:03 investment property. It shows they really had their

22:08 head screwed on their shoulders right?

22:10 And setting themselves they. Weren't really setting

22:12 themselves up. They obviously had a goal in

22:14 mind and yeah, the year that they bought the house together,

22:19 Ian proposed to Alison on her birthday.

22:22 Yeah, and she accepted the proposal immediately.

22:26 As we said, they've they've then bought after that they bought

22:29 their second property, which again, I wrote it down because

22:33 it, it blows my mind $80,000 they spent on their second

22:36 investment property. And you can actually, I saw

22:39 photos of both homes which you can find online and they're

22:43 beautiful, like they're really lovely Queensland style.

22:48 Homes. Yeah, they're.

22:48 Beautiful, Really, really nice in 1993.

22:53 This is kind of where things take a little bit of a turn.

22:55 In 1993, Ellison Dickey entered the Miss Australia Award

23:00 pageant, and it was kind of coming to the end of its life

23:04 back then. Because, I mean, I guess

23:06 people's attitudes towards especially, well, actually I'm

23:10 going to say youth and adult pageantry.

23:12 Yeah, in Australia, like the attitudes towards that we're

23:16 changing and we were starting to really shift our views in terms

23:19 of how we look at women in society and that and all of that

23:23 kind of thing. No shade to anybody who wants to

23:26 participate in things like that. I just don't know that there was

23:28 the appetite from an audience perspective necessarily.

23:31 Yeah, although this was a fundraising endeavour at the end

23:36 of the day anyway and I believe that was Ellisons motivation to

23:39 enter. That and I think also this

23:41 thought of she loved being on the stage with her ballet and it

23:44 was kind of an entry to that back into that sort of world of

23:47 like putting herself. She was kind of dipping her toe

23:49 back in the water in terms of going.

23:51 I loved that. Like where can I access that

23:54 same sort of stage? Like I and that's what And so

23:57 because there's a part of it which is about you've got to

24:00 show a talent. So she could that's what she had

24:03 as her talent was her ballet dancing and things.

24:04 So yeah. No, it was more that idea of

24:08 being on stage. And yeah, actually, I think

24:10 definitely as well from a fundraising point of view.

24:12 And that that was, you know, definitely a draw card, but it

24:14 was more about being on the stage again and having that

24:17 passion of hers met. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:19 Well, she wasn't Miss Brisbane, Yeah, in that pageant.

24:22 So she. Clearly, like, you know, had a

24:26 way about her. I mean, obviously those

24:28 pageants, there's elements of it that I find a bit, but she had a

24:31 talent. She had ability to speak well

24:34 and draw people in. To be able to win a pageant like

24:37 that and not to mention very attractive woman, I think.

24:39 Oh my God, she was so beautiful. Yeah, so beautiful.

24:42 Yeah. This kind of caused though a

24:45 little bit of a souring to Ian and Allison's relationship.

24:49 I think he couldn't believe that she would want to be.

24:51 Part of it, I think he found it, really.

24:53 IK a bit off yeah so Allison actually ended up ending the

24:58 relationship and moving out of the home they shared together

25:01 yeah Allison took one house, Ian took the other and he decided to

25:06 go back and work on the Barrier Reef yeah.

25:08 And I think that's where like, you know, a lot of that

25:10 relationship breakdown was in that they were just, they just

25:12 had different goals in life. And, you know, and that's, you

25:15 know, as much as you might be right for each other, you might

25:17 not be the right time or the right, you know, place kind of

25:19 thing. And they just, they just

25:20 couldn't get that to work. So which is sad.

25:23 It is. Sad.

25:24 Ellison moved on and started dating a few people, and she

25:28 dated this dentist. Have you read about this?

25:30 Yeah. Oh, my God.

25:32 This in. This makes my blood boil.

25:35 So he was in. He ended up being nicknamed by a

25:38 friend's dickhead. Dan this dentist and what a

25:41 fucking dickhead he was. Actually.

25:43 You know what, Meg? Piece of shit.

25:47 There's gonna be, they're gonna have to rate these pieces of

25:48 shit though, I reckon. Like I'm tipping we get to a

25:50 better piece of shit, a bigger piece of shit later.

25:52 Oh. Way bigger piece of shit.

25:54 He's a piece of shit on a whole nother level.

25:56 But just wait until we hear. This maybe we can call him

25:58 Dickhead Dan level piece of shit.

26:00 Yeah, just like from now on, we'll rate it on a Dickhead Dan

26:03 scale like, you know. This is a This is a dickhead Dan

26:08 Total, like absolute piece of shit, but nowhere near what's to

26:11 come. So he offered to take her

26:15 overseas to Europe for a couple of weeks.

26:18 And when they go over there, she's they're standing at a

26:22 train station. I think it was about to get on a

26:25 train to go somewhere internationally, like I think it

26:27 was a train trip to I don't know, I'm going to say Paris

26:31 somewhere. They were going far and he

26:36 dumped her at the train station and then.

26:39 So this is where her friend that she met in Denmark comes back

26:42 in. Yeah, she called her friend was

26:43 like, well, I've just been bloody dumped.

26:45 I'm. Just stuck in Europe on my own.

26:47 Yeah, and. She, her friend, they all they

26:49 met up and then they saw Dick and Dan with another woman in.

26:55 Prague, Prague, yes, like walking on the street, literally

26:58 how crazy. Like, you know, in Europe, I

27:00 mean, Europe's a bloody big place.

27:03 Decide to ditch each other and then just randomly see him

27:05 walking down the street and. Hand in hand with another woman

27:08 like literally days after he dumped Ellison.

27:10 What a piece of shit. A piece of shit.

27:14 Seriously, Dan. Yeah, I love that that obviously

27:17 the two. And I love that she could laugh

27:19 about it, you know, in that moment with her friend and have

27:21 that like, that's yeah, good on it because that's all it

27:24 deserves. Oh.

27:25 Absolutely. And move straight on.

27:27 Definitely, definitely. When Ellison came back to

27:30 Brisbane after that, I mean, I guess you'd feel a little

27:32 scorned or a little something about it because totally, she

27:35 actually ended up contacting Ian and they had a little fling for

27:37 a few weeks, but it never rekindled for good.

27:40 Oh, good on Earth. Go back to, you know, like, why

27:42 not? Yeah, I'm all for that.

27:44 Comfort, you know? You know what you're gonna get?

27:47 Yeah. Alison was really making

27:50 progress at Flight Centre at this time.

27:52 So she'd actually gone from strength to strength and

27:54 obviously her leadership skills and her personality and

27:57 everything kind of worked together and she ended up

28:00 becoming the office manager, I think originally at the Ipswich

28:04 branch. And then she got a promotion to

28:06 the state HR manager and then I believe after that, the national

28:11 HR manager for Flight Centre. So Flight Centre, for those of

28:14 you who aren't Australian, is a really big.

28:18 Change. Yeah, change travel agencies,

28:21 yeah, and they're all around Australia, huge, like everyone

28:25 just. Knows anyone not been to Flight

28:27 Center at some point when we use them far less these days, like

28:29 because everyone can do it themselves on the web.

28:30 But prior to those days, yeah, you went to Flight Center and

28:33 booked all your flights. That's it.

28:34 They always had good deals. Yeah, yeah.

28:36 Kind of knew what you were going to get when you went there.

28:38 Absolutely. I think that just goes to show

28:40 how amazing she was and how good she was at what she did because

28:44 to be promoted to such such a huge role and she was still

28:48 pretty young at this point. This is in 1995.

28:51 Yeah. No, just clearly impressive and

28:53 very Yeah, yeah. Yeah, unfortunately in Flight

28:59 Centre. So once she became the state HR

29:01 Rep, she moved from the branch of Ipswich to their head office

29:05 in Brisbane in the CBD. And at this office, she met a

29:11 man by the name of Jared Baden Clay.

29:16 He was employed as a team manager.

29:18 They were. So this is like going back now

29:21 to the early days of the Internet.

29:24 Are we talking sort of like, yeah, 1995.

29:28 And so whoever the heads at flight Centre where we're like,

29:30 right, we are going to capitalize on this Internet

29:33 thing and we are going to set up a 24 hour call centre.

29:36 Yeah. And people can just ring up

29:39 anytime. We'll be able to book it online

29:41 because you're not having to wait.

29:42 And I don't even know how you'd book a flight before the

29:44 Internet. Do you know how they used to do

29:45 it? God, there must have been like a

29:47 system. They logged in.

29:48 I must. Have been there must have been

29:49 some sort of software like system that they used like.

29:52 But obviously that had to be done.

29:53 I don't know if that had to. I don't.

29:54 Even how did the world work without Internet?

29:58 If we're if we're struggling to conceive what that was like,

30:01 imagine our children. They'll have no But life without

30:04 the Internet didn't exist. Yeah, my brain can't even

30:07 comprehend that. Yeah, anyway, for some some for

30:09 some reason, no. So they've set up this 24 hour

30:12 call centre and he was employed as the the manager.

30:16 Yeah, he. Was like the night.

30:19 Manager night manager. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:21 So they've met and I think Jared.

30:26 He had a girlfriend at the time. But he fell instantly.

30:30 No, they went, he actually set her up on a date with another

30:33 work colleague of theirs and they ended up going out on a

30:36 double date between so Jared and his girlfriend Allison and this

30:40 bloke, another bloke from Flight Centre.

30:42 We've never been named or anything, but they've gone out

30:44 on this double date, like because and Jared supposedly

30:46 was, you know, like, oh, you know, you're a great chick, you

30:49 know, like meet my mate from work.

30:51 You know, we'll go out. Apparently during that dinner,

30:55 Sparks flu between Ellison and Jared, between the two of them,

31:00 OK, because he was a very charismatic, charming man.

31:10 So they from that point, he sort of, you know, let yeah broke up

31:13 with his girlfriend and the two of them started dating.

31:16 So Ellison for a little while though, yeah, was contemplating

31:20 whether or not to sort of keep going with this relationship

31:23 with Ian because, you know, after coming back from that,

31:26 I'll fated dickhead, dickhead damn trip and sort of sort of

31:31 rekindling things a little bit with him.

31:33 But certainly not, you know, they weren't fully committed to

31:35 one another or anything like that.

31:37 And in this interim period, she's met Jared and she was sort

31:44 of, I guess, seeing both of them for a very short period of time.

31:48 And she went away on a weekend away with both of them over this

31:51 period. And the first weekend she was

31:55 away with Jared and she was, they were staying at a hotel.

31:59 She left her clothes on the floor and she came out of the

32:02 went and had a shower, came out of the shower.

32:04 Jared had ironed, folded, ironed and put away her clothes.

32:09 And she thought, oh, wow, green flag.

32:12 Yeah, I say red. I say red, red, red.

32:16 For anyone who is thinking this is a green flag, it is not.

32:21 And that sounds kind of intuitive in like in we talk

32:25 about mental load and things with women.

32:28 This is a red flag. This is the beginnings of

32:31 coercive control. This is not mental load removal,

32:34 no, no, this is him controlling everything.

32:38 So then Ellison's gone away with Ian on, and I think she actually

32:42 went back to the Barrier Reef to visit him because he was working

32:46 at a different resort by that stage and stayed at the hotel

32:49 that he was working at. She did the same thing, took her

32:52 clothes off, left them on the floor as a bit of a test to see

32:55 what would happen. And she came out of the shower

32:57 and her her clothes were still messy and on the floor.

33:00 And she said that like that is what made her decision to break

33:04 up with Ian and sort of pursue the relationship with Jared.

33:07 Yep. And on paper I can see where

33:11 she. Was in the moment.

33:12 Oh. Absolutely.

33:13 Absolutely. But now what?

33:15 We as we what we know? No.

33:19 No. No.

33:20 It's a hard fucking no. Yeah, I you know what?

33:25 I'm just going to keep going because there are so many red

33:27 flags that come up across the way and we are in no way victim

33:30 blaming here. We totally understand why she

33:34 did. What she did understand that

33:36 initial thinking of that and, and look, you can justify all

33:41 the behaviours and things. It's never that, it's never the

33:43 victim's fault. Like in your mind you think

33:46 these things are lovely and there's and that it's called

33:50 love bombing. You are made to think that you

33:52 are, that it is a technique unbeknownst probably even to the

33:56 person perpetrating them. They don't realize they're doing

33:58 it. That's so innating them to do

34:01 that. You think as the victim that you

34:04 are being treated like a Princess and how you should be

34:06 treated. But it's it's to lull you into a

34:09 false sense of security. Also, like I've got a friend

34:13 whose partner is whose husband is very, I'm going to say like

34:20 OCD and I'm not saying that with like he doesn't have an official

34:23 diagnosis, but you know, he's so neat and tidy and on the surface

34:28 that's amazing. Like I often say to her, I'm

34:30 like, oh, you're so lucky because he'll literally he can't

34:33 have anything out of place. Everything is like their house.

34:36 Their house is Immaculate all the time.

34:40 And she said to me, she's like, no.

34:42 Comes with a level of stress. Yeah, it's.

34:43 Stressful because she's like, I can't even, like, cut up

34:45 something on the kitchen bench and he's there wiping around me,

34:49 you know, he can't even stand that.

34:50 Yeah. So look, I mean, yeah, yeah,

34:54 that's that's a bit of a different.

34:55 Situation and not to say that everyone who has OCD is using is

34:58 is like or you can. Just do some no no.

35:00 Using coercive control? No, no.

35:02 But I'm just saying like sometimes.

35:03 These things that can be seen as, Oh yeah, that's really

35:05 lovely, aren't always. No, yeah, that's a different

35:08 one. Exactly.

35:09 Different levels of things, for sure.

35:10 Yeah. Everyone, everything's on a

35:11 spectrum. That's it.

35:13 Yeah. But this was just a little red

35:14 flag that maybe, you know, unfortunately.

35:17 Yeah, exactly. So Jared Clay was born in

35:22 England on the 9th of September in 1970 to parents Nigel and

35:27 Elaine Clay. He was the eldest and then he

35:30 has a younger sister Olivia and an even younger brother Adam.

35:35 At the age of 2, the family moved to Zimbabwe because Nigel

35:39 had a government job and I guess they had to move there for some

35:44 some. Reason.

35:45 Well, he was from there originally.

35:48 Oh, was he? Yeah.

35:49 Yeah. So that's where he was.

35:50 He was brought up. So did he get reposted down

35:53 there or? Or was he posted to the UK?

35:55 Maybe when? I think more when Warren.

35:57 Was born yeah Oh OK yeah in 1980 the clays moved from Zimbabwe

36:03 due to civil unrest to Australia and they.

36:07 Changed. Sorry, putting it lightly.

36:08 Yeah, well. Yeah, they changed their surname

36:12 to Baden Clay at that time. Do you want to explain why this

36:17 is it? This is fun.

36:20 Oh, this just is the start of I think, yeah, we can get into it.

36:24 So the reason they changed their surname is because they they

36:28 were distantly related to a a man by the name of Lord Baden

36:33 Powell, who was the guy who started the Scouts.

36:40 So. So he was.

36:42 So Robert Baden Powell was actually Nigel's grand great

36:46 grandfather. Great grandfather?

36:48 No, he was. He was Jared's great

36:50 grandfather. Oh, sorry.

36:51 OK, all right. I thought it was actually the

36:53 further again. Oh, God.

36:55 OK, right. OK, all right.

36:57 But yeah, basically, they partake in the whatever fame

37:02 might be linked to that name. They they consciously decided to

37:06 change their name from Clay to Baden Clay.

37:09 OK, sorry, just just quickly, Yeah.

37:11 Have you ever done scouts? Or my brother.

37:14 My brother I did. Oh no.

37:15 Was it Girl Guides? I don't even know what it was

37:17 that I did. OK, my brother did scouts very

37:19 briefly but my nan was hardcore scouts.

37:24 OK, so as a hardcore hardcore scouty person, do you think she

37:30 would have known the name? She would have known Lord Kaden

37:34 Powell. I can.

37:35 I can actually categorically know that for a fact, OK.

37:38 Because I'm like, to me that name means literally nothing.

37:41 No, I could say but that was because she was, she was

37:43 actually very highly thought of and very highly ranked or

37:46 whatever. And OK, and that was in Victoria

37:48 of like, you know, OK. And scouts goes like, is it all

37:50 over the world? Yeah.

37:51 Like so yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I do.

37:54 I would honestly and look, and she's a lot older.

37:56 I mean, my nan's passed away many years ago, like, so she's

37:59 similar ish almost era to it. Like to, to Lord Baden Powell.

38:04 So yeah, I, I someone, I guess today.

38:08 Yeah. I, I don't think you'd even know

38:09 the name. But I mean, but if you could

38:11 look at interviews with the parents, Jeff, particularly

38:17 Annie and Jared as well, to be honest, anywhere possible that

38:21 they could explain the Baden, Baden, Clay and Baden Powell

38:24 interact, you know? Commonality.

38:26 They would Baden Clay, not Baden Powell.

38:30 Well, I think they wanted to. Well, Clay was their surname, so

38:33 I guess they were hanging on. They weren't, you know, complete

38:35 not a like narcissist, but there was A to them that was enough to

38:44 link them in their minds and to bring that up.

38:47 In conversation, every point. Yeah, OK.

38:50 It was a way of introducing it as a conversation starter.

38:52 Yeah. Because to me, Baden Powell and

38:56 Baden Clay are two completely different surnames.

38:58 Yeah, like, I would never, even if I knew that Baden Powell was

39:02 a Scout person, I wouldn't then in my mind know someone named

39:06 Baden Clay and be like, oh, any chance you're related to Scout

39:11 founder Robert Baden Powell? No, absolutely.

39:14 But they found a way to bring it up at any possible chance.

39:17 Yeah, yes, did. But did Jeff work for the

39:20 Scouts? Was he?

39:21 No, I don't. Believe so.

39:22 Not even to that level. I think, I think he, I mean they

39:25 were involved in the scouts, but I don't know that he was ever

39:27 actually like by naturally like paid by the scouts.

39:32 I think he was. Like anyone Scout is, anyone is.

39:34 Anyone. Well, I think well.

39:35 Eventually tree based. Yeah, but eventually Jared was.

39:38 Yeah, briefly. Briefly.

39:39 Yeah. He couldn't succeed at that.

39:41 Either, yeah, we'll get to that in a SEC actually.

39:43 It's my disdain for the man coming out too much.

39:46 No, no, please. Disdain away.

39:52 So Jared went to school in Toowoomba.

39:55 So they settled in and around that area again in Queensland

39:59 and he completed a Bachelor of Business at the University of

40:01 Southern Queensland. I think it was so not the same

40:04 university that Allison went to. He was an Army reservist and he

40:09 worked as an account. So he used his business degree

40:11 and decided to do accounting, but he decided that wasn't for

40:16 him. And he got a job at Flight

40:19 Center to set up the call center.

40:21 So we're kind of now at the point where he's meeting Alison.

40:26 So they've been dating. They hadn't actually been dating

40:29 for all that long when Jared proposed to Alison and Alison

40:35 didn't accept straight away. So we know when she was proposed

40:39 to by Ian she said yes immediately.

40:42 But when Jared proposed to her, she said give me a week to think

40:46 about it. There's your answer right there.

40:48 Isn't it? Yeah.

40:50 Isn't it? But the fact, OK, I feel like if

40:53 you're, if you're being proposed to, you're kind of being put on

40:56 the spot. So I I get people saying yes in

40:58 the moment because it's like it's.

41:00 Exciting. And it's exciting.

41:02 You don't see. Like, there's a bit of pressure,

41:05 yeah, but then dare. Say her saying can I have a week

41:08 to think about it would have blasted his ego a fair bit too.

41:11 Absolutely. And I, I just think for her, for

41:16 her to have had the balls to say that at that point, yeah, that's

41:21 that says a lot to me about who she was.

41:24 Yeah. Like she was very sure of

41:26 herself, I think. Yeah.

41:29 By the way, I think it's also worth mentioning that up up

41:32 until this point in their relationship, he was love

41:35 bombing her. He was like involved in every

41:41 aspect of her life. He didn't want her to do

41:44 anything without him. And whether or not, I mean, the

41:47 fact that she said I need a week to think about it makes me think

41:50 that that was already raising an alarm bell in her head

41:53 somewhere. You don't say I need a week to

41:55 think about it. If you're head over heels and

41:57 there's no alarm bells going off, do you?

42:00 So eventually Ellison agreed and so they officially became

42:06 engaged. Now we need to talk about

42:09 Jared's relationship with Mummy and Daddy.

42:13 And you said the words because apparently that's what he called

42:16 them. Mummy and Daddy as a grown

42:19 adult. We've we've talked about icks on

42:22 one of, you know, one of, Oh my, that massively massive ick is a

42:26 great huge. Ick my freaking way my 8 year

42:30 old. Yeah, when he wants to creep me

42:33 out, you'll call me Mummy. I honestly to go when I like

42:36 first heard this. That's what he called them.

42:38 I literally was like, in my mind, 7 and up because that's

42:42 like what how old my youngest is.

42:44 And I'm like, yeah, he's moving into that next realm of like

42:47 adulthood that I can't even imagine right now, him saying

42:50 that to me. And other than if it's a bit of

42:51 a mummy. Yeah, that's.

42:53 Literally, that is. Literally when Lucas will do it

42:55 with me, he'll be like Mummy, yeah, could I have a special

42:59 treaty? Yes.

43:02 And yeah, and he's doing it so he's looks little and sweet and

43:05 innocent. Trying to like cute.

43:07 Can I get what I want like? And he's eight.

43:09 Yeah, he's not in his mid 20s. There's nothing cute about that

43:13 anymore. Now like, because he knows, I

43:14 mean, my youngest knows that I come back with that one of like

43:17 before you ever finish that sentence, No.

43:19 Yeah, nice try. Maybe you're gonna have to try a

43:22 different tact with me, boy. Absolutely.

43:26 So yeah, no, that screens. It's just gross because.

43:32 Apparently he also then, you know, everything got put past

43:35 his parents. Every, you know, every decision

43:37 was that was made, he would go to his.

43:40 Parents on so much so that they're engaged like Ellison and

43:44 Jared are engaged and he told his parents about this and

43:48 they're like, well our wedding anniversary in like 9 months

43:51 time falls on a Saturday. We think you should get married

43:54 on our wedding anniversary. And they did.

43:57 Well, they did, but Allison didn't want to.

43:58 No. I don't blame him, She.

43:59 She she was like, well, no, that's weird, That's odd.

44:02 Like we're not doing that. But then Gerard.

44:04 Gerard is sorry, I keep saying Gerard because it's like the way

44:08 it's written. Yeah, Gerard is like persistent.

44:13 And I guess she just thought, oh, fuck it, whatever.

44:15 It's we'll just do it that day if it's that important to you.

44:18 But she was aware of this quite odd relation should be had with

44:21 his parents, that he was very much still.

44:23 That probably, boy, that probably played into her.

44:26 You're going to have to give me a week.

44:28 Yeah, I think that's what I think, honestly, that's what was

44:30 kind of playing on your mind was like, this relationship with his

44:32 parents is a bit odd. Like, do I really want to be

44:35 involved in that? And he's been controlling his

44:37 brother and sister as well, like they, the five of them were,

44:44 like I say, Allison and her family.

44:46 They were close but normal. Yeah.

44:49 And to a normal degree, yeah, then there's like.

44:50 But then. There's like this insular, Yeah,

44:55 I mean, I'm, I'm not I, I don't think we're implying that

44:57 there's anything. No, no, no, no, no, no God, no,

44:59 no. But.

45:00 It was like very insular and like to the exclusion of

45:04 everyone else that they didn't really let people in.

45:06 They were very just as a really tight family unit, but

45:11 dysfunctional. Oh yeah, yeah.

45:14 Yeah. So they got married on mummy and

45:18 daddy's wedding anniversary and after the wedding they did a

45:22 huge amount of travel. So that's something that Allison

45:25 and Jared had in common. They loved travelling.

45:27 They visited Kuala Lumpur, the Maldives, Turkey, Egypt, Spain,

45:31 like so many, many, many more countries as well.

45:34 And they ended up in England in night.

45:36 So we're in 1997 now. They sort of, at the end of all

45:39 of this, travel around after their wedding, they ended up in

45:41 England and Jared got a job at Blockbuster as a systems

45:46 consultant. So this was the first time in

45:48 their relationship that Jared actually had a job that paid

45:53 more and was sort of more senior to that of Allison.

45:56 She'd given up her job, obviously at Flight Centre to do

45:59 all of this trouble because I think they were planning on

46:00 travelling for over 12 months. Yeah.

46:03 And Allison just, you know, over in the UK just got sort of like

46:06 an entry level office job. And you know, I mean, they were,

46:09 they were doing. Travelling, they weren't so.

46:10 Travelling, it didn't really matter.

46:12 Yeah, he held it, held it over her though, that he, he had this

46:15 amazing job and she, you know, she was relying on him for one.

46:19 Time he could, yeah. Yeah, yeah, fucking piece of

46:22 shit. They planned to travel to South

46:26 America after this. And then I think after South

46:28 America, the plan was then to come home to Australia and

46:31 really start to set up their lives together in Australia.

46:34 And in order to travel there, they needed to take anti

46:37 malarial medication. And there were two options.

46:41 I believe there was one that you could take.

46:43 Was it every day for a certain number of weeks before you had

46:46 to travel or there was an injection I think that you could

46:48 have just as a once off. So they opted to do the once off

46:53 injection. Yeah.

46:54 And the side effects of that for some people were anxiety,

46:58 depression, hallucinations. And this can actually persist

47:01 potentially post medication as well.

47:04 Yeah. And unfortunately, Ellison fell

47:06 into that really, really low percentage group of people who

47:10 have these like, horrific side effects.

47:13 So she absolutely had all of those things.

47:16 Apparently her hallucinations were like next level and that

47:20 then drove the anxiety and it sort of spiraled her into a bit

47:24 of a depression as well. Apparently this happens.

47:29 These side effects tend to happen when people have a

47:33 history of mental illness, whether it be diagnosed or not.

47:36 So just whether amplifies those sorts of things?

47:38 Yeah. So whether or not Ellison had

47:40 already experienced some mental ill health prior to this, I'm

47:43 not sure. That's not documented or there's

47:46 nothing sort of around there to suggest that.

47:48 But I mean, the fact that she's had this reaction, and that's

47:51 more commonly seen in people who have a past history of mental

47:53 illness, possibly that's the case there.

47:55 Yeah. Two weeks.

47:58 So, yeah. So she became like, really

48:00 withdrawn, didn't have the best time when they were in South

48:03 America. Yeah, apparently by the time.

48:05 So they actually then returned to the UK before then coming to

48:07 Australia. But when she returned to the UK,

48:12 Jared took her to the doctor. And the doctor, in the doctor's

48:15 report, it says that she was basically catatonic by this

48:19 point and he's still schlepping her around South America.

48:22 Wouldn't you have stepped in earlier and said, hey, like this

48:25 is not OK? Like let's get you some some

48:26 help here, Yeah. And get you seen by a doctor

48:28 like. So, well, I mean, the doctor

48:31 basic in the UK basically said you just got to wait this out.

48:34 Yeah. And there's not a huge amount

48:36 that we can do. So Jared actually ended up

48:38 taking a job. This is 1998 now.

48:40 He ended up taking a job with the scouts in the Swiss Alps.

48:44 Yeah. Doing.

48:45 I don't really know. No, I didn't really find much

48:47 about what he did. I was like, I, I don't know if

48:50 he was like, hey, I'm a Baden something, something.

48:54 I'm sure he brought it up plenty of time.

48:55 Scouts, Scouts. I'm gonna do so.

48:57 He was Doob dob. DOB isn't it?

48:59 Is that the right 10? I have no idea.

49:01 Oh, OK. Is it?

49:02 I think so. I know they go like this.

49:03 Yeah, deep, deep. No.

49:05 Is it 3? Is it?

49:06 Or maybe that's hung games. We're so all over.

49:10 This toes, yeah. I'm not sure if anyone's from

49:13 the Scout 2. Or is it 3 fingers that they do

49:16 it with? I know that was three Hunger

49:19 Games. Yeah, I feel.

49:20 Like it's 2. I feel like it's 2, isn't it?

49:22 Let us know in the comments. Please tell us what we're doing.

49:25 Yeah, yeah. What are we doing?

49:26 What are we? Doing.

49:27 I don't know why I remember that I.

49:28 Didn't think to look that up actually, but OK.

49:32 So Ellison was doing some admin work with the scouts while he

49:34 was doing this on a very part time basis.

49:37 So she would have been bored as batshit, I think, because we're

49:39 apparently we're of this place was stunning scenery and all of

49:42 that, but there wasn't much around.

49:44 No, it's in the Swiss Alps. There's like a little town and

49:46 there was not much else going on there.

49:48 See. Again, like wouldn't you have

49:49 gone, Hey, you're not well, let's get you home to, you know,

49:52 and background, family and friends, you know, in comfort of

49:55 familiarity, all those sorts of things to get you better.

49:57 Meg, he's a scout. He's a Baden Clay Baden

50:02 something. He's got to do his stuff, yeah.

50:04 Yeah, he's important, all right. That is really important.

50:07 Yeah. Scouts on a business.

50:10 OK, so he actually ended up doing a nine month stint there.

50:14 So poor Allison. She's recovering from this

50:17 horrific state she was in on her own, isolated in the bloody

50:22 Swiss Alps, which is probably what he wanted.

50:24 Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

50:26 Yeah, I'm sure. He wanted so there was a

50:29 directorship coming up within the organization and he applied

50:33 for that and didn't get it. But but his name, your name

50:38 carried you that far. Well, I think his name carried

50:40 him at least to the Smelps. In 1999.

50:43 They moved home and Flight Centre rehired Ellison in a

50:48 heartbeat because, you know, she obviously left on great terms.

50:51 She was an incredible employee and they just wanted her back.

50:54 Yeah, Drub applied for an online job with Global Online, which I

51:02 think was the Flight Centre's answer to, like what is now

51:08 Webjet. Yeah, but I vaguely remember

51:11 that. But it.

51:11 Wasn't quite ready to launch yet and I think there weren't all

51:17 that many active Internet users and it wasn't getting the user

51:20 ship. And apparently Flight Centre

51:22 spent millions and millions of dollars on this and then just

51:25 let it go to the wayside because it just wasn't being used.

51:27 So Gerard lost his job in that which everyone who was involved.

51:30 In it was not. It's nothing to do with like his

51:32 ability or whatever, no. No, I mean did he do anything to

51:35 help? But who knows?

51:37 In late 2000, Allison fell pregnant with her first child

51:42 and Jared was unemployed at this time.

51:44 Because this is around the demise of Global Online.

51:47 Yeah. What did he do?

51:48 Do you remember what he did? This is when he started up his

51:51 yeah, real estate. He went to his real estate

51:53 license this. Is where he decided to set up a

51:55 stock trading business. I didn't know about this.

51:58 Oh. Yes, in the shed, out the back.

52:00 So oh, OK, Oh. This is this is a good one.

52:05 First daughter's born during this time.

52:08 Yeah. So Ellison's on maternity leave.

52:10 He would fuck off to the shed and trade stocks all day because

52:14 it's really important. It's really, really important.

52:16 OK. So don't forget that.

52:19 He's a man, all right. Their first daughter was born in

52:22 July of 2001. And Priscilla Ellison's mom came

52:26 over, you know, to help her every day or most days.

52:30 And one day Priscilla was like tidying something up in the

52:32 kitchen and she noticed a baby monitor, but the the receiver in

52:36 the kitchen. Yes.

52:38 And she was like, oh, what's said to Allison, you know,

52:40 what's this about? Like, what, why, why is this in

52:42 here? Oh, it's Jared's got the other

52:45 end in the in the shed. So, you know, if I need him, I

52:49 can just call out and he'll be there straight away.

52:51 And Priscilla's like, he can literally hear all of our

52:54 conversations. Yes, what?

52:57 That is fucking weird. That is like if Alison needed

53:01 something, she could walk out to the bloody back and don't get

53:04 in. There is very motive to that.

53:07 Absolutely for sure. Yeah, for sure.

53:10 I just can't even Yeah. Then 9/11 happened and all of

53:15 the stocks, you know, the stock market went to absolutely shit.

53:18 And so he basically. Lost.

53:20 I'm sure it would have happened for him anyway.

53:22 Yeah, but I mean, OK, that's outside of his control, but I

53:26 don't know how fruitful it was. Anyway.

53:29 I think money at this point for them was a bit of a source of

53:31 stress. Yes.

53:35 Then, oh, that's the other thing.

53:37 Actually, I just, I, this just popped into my head.

53:40 When their first baby was less than six months old, Jared went

53:44 on a holiday overseas with his brother.

53:46 What? Yeah, they just went on a

53:48 holiday somewhere. Now they didn't have this.

53:51 That the money bit is what reminded me, because, yeah, they

53:54 didn't have much money. Like he'd already lost all of

53:58 their money. Yeah, and she wasn't working.

54:00 I mean she. Wasn't working, she was still on

54:02 maternity leave. Yeah, and they had a less than

54:05 six month old baby. Oh my God, who the fuck does he

54:11 think he is? Apparently because it was post

54:13 911 they got a good deal on flights.

54:15 Right. Leave your wife and newborn at

54:19 home. At home.

54:20 Oh, honestly, he just couldn't have given a shit, could he?

54:23 No, he was living his life. Yeah, that's him.

54:26 Yep, that's exactly right. Yeah, he then I guess this is

54:31 when the real estate boom really was at at its at the start,

54:37 Yeah. And I mean, Queensland real

54:42 estate really went from, as you were saying it was pretty bug

54:46 and basement prices today. It's still not.

54:49 It's still not Sydney, Melbourne.

54:50 Oh, no, no, but but, but it's still, you know, Yeah, it's,

54:54 it's getting up there. Yeah.

54:55 But there was an absolute real estate boom sort of starting to

54:57 happen around this time. So around I think this is sort

55:00 of we're talking 2002 now. Yeah.

55:04 Apparently prices were going up year on year, like 160% stuff

55:07 like that. So it's significant, OK.

55:10 In terms of, you know, growth, Yeah, in the real estate market.

55:15 So Jared decided he'd become a real estate agent because what

55:19 others. Oh, I'm not going to generalize

55:20 about real estate agents. I was just about to say

55:23 something really directly. Actually, I saw our favorite

55:25 real estate agent yesterday. Oh, that's a completely

55:29 different topic. Yeah.

55:31 But so, OK, certain personalities maybe are attract

55:34 more attracted to that they're. Don't get us wrong, we are sure

55:38 there are good real estate agents out there.

55:41 Decent human. What are you looking like that

55:43 for? Why did you hear their names?

55:48 Look, I can't, I can't say you can't generalize and say all of

55:52 them are the same. But I think it attracts a

55:54 certain type of person, that vocation, as do many vocations.

55:57 They attract a certain person type of personality, Yes.

56:00 Is that fair? OK.

56:02 Do you have anything further you'd like to add to that?

56:04 Probably better not OK. Because unfortunately, at some

56:07 point in time you have to deal with them probably.

56:10 Absolutely. I mean, it's one of those

56:11 things, isn't it? Yeah.

56:14 In 2002 he was hired by an agency.

56:16 But this is so good. But he was like, if you hire me,

56:19 though, you actually gotta hire my parents too, because.

56:22 Because he had. This was like from to be a

56:26 director of the real estate. No, no, no, no.

56:29 This was before that. Are you kidding me?

56:30 I'm not kidding. Oh.

56:32 That's. Really this is this is at just a

56:35 generic someone's real estate agency that he worked at said

56:39 they had to employ his parents. Now the reason his parents

56:42 needed a job was because he had they had invested their

56:46 retirement with him when he was a stock trader and he basically

56:50 lost all their money. So then.

56:56 So what are they being employed as?

56:57 Like agents? Yeah.

56:59 So basically it sounds to me like what they did was they

57:02 basically employed Jared and then he.

57:05 Like kind of had his team. Kind of had his team and his

57:08 parents were his team. So his parents would go out, get

57:11 the leads and then he'd close the deal because he was such a

57:15 big man, you know, he'd get it all sorted.

57:18 Right, OK. That he was actually quite

57:21 successful. Smarmy.

57:23 Yeah, start with their. Like, I mean, people were

57:25 charmed by him because he was charming.

57:28 Yeah. And he, he then decided, God,

57:32 he's a piece of shit. He then decided that he would

57:36 open his own Century 21, which is a real estate agency

57:41 franchise. He literally opened it next door

57:44 to this company that he he had worked for.

57:46 Now, this company that he had worked for, they taught him

57:49 everything he knew. Yeah.

57:52 He, he wasn't a licensed real estate agent before he started

57:54 working for them. He trained with them.

57:57 He got all of his licensing and certification while he was with

58:00 them. Yeah.

58:01 And then he fucking fucked off and opened a business next door.

58:04 Yeah, I, I read a thing where the guy who employed him there,

58:07 he basically said he's like, look, we fully expect people to

58:09 do that. That's fine.

58:11 We we understand that that's just part of business.

58:13 Yeah. And especially in the real

58:14 estate business, a lot of people have aspirations to go on and

58:18 start their own businesses. And that's fine.

58:20 Yeah. He's like the what was the kick

58:21 in the teeth is that he literally opened the business

58:24 next door. Yeah, he's, he's.

58:28 It's just who he was. He's.

58:29 Just an ass wife he's. Yeah.

58:33 Yeah, the Century 21 I think was doing all right.

58:37 Yeah, even right from the get go.

58:39 But we are in the middle of a real estate boom, so you would

58:41 hope that they'd be doing OK. Yeah.

58:44 By this stage, Allison's pregnant with their second baby.

58:47 She's having some anxiety, some panic attacks, so much so that

58:51 she'd gone to the GP to seek some assistance with that in

58:55 terms of medications. She was also seeing a

58:58 psychologist at the time, so she was doing everything she could

59:01 to try and help herself. The GP prescribed her Zoloft for

59:05 her depression and that was really working for her.

59:08 And can we say Jared at this point had already openly said he

59:13 didn't think that depression was real?

59:15 Yeah, Yeah. He thought that it was all

59:20 made-up and that she just needed to get.

59:22 Over it. Total piece of shit.

59:30 Yeah, just get over it. Just pull yourself out of.

59:31 It yeah, you just sort your shit out.

59:35 Yeah, well, she would have by this stage now, had two kids.

59:38 So their second daughter was born in 2000, December of 2003.

59:43 She would have been, I bet, doing everything on her own.

59:46 It would have been like she was a single parent, right?

59:48 You know, he he didn't. I don't know.

59:51 She would have been doing all the work, Yeah, with the

59:53 children. I am absolutely sure of that.

59:55 Yeah, by the time she was pregnant with her third baby, he

1:00:02 was having an affair at that point.

1:00:05 So he was not engaged in the marriage, you know, at that

1:00:09 point. And we don't know.

1:00:12 We act like there is. It's very, very possible and

1:00:16 very likely, although not substantiated, that he probably

1:00:19 had affairs before the ones we know about.

1:00:21 Absolutely. And I'm sure, I'm sure he did.

1:00:24 Yes. Yeah.

1:00:25 Asshole. I mean, Ellison kept a diary.

1:00:28 And I remember one of the entries, I think it was around

1:00:31 the time of her second daughter's birth, she wrote

1:00:35 something about being. And this really got to me

1:00:38 because I thought, oh, my God, I bet you're not about.

1:00:41 She's like, I'm just this fat, disgusting, smelly pig.

1:00:46 And I was like, oh, my God, yeah, who would even like?

1:00:50 He must have said that to her. This is it.

1:00:53 I think a lot of that language is being used by her, by him

1:00:56 towards her. I mean, she was writing in her

1:00:58 journal things when she didn't know that that he was having

1:01:00 affairs. She was writing stuff in her in

1:01:02 her journals, like, like, if my relationship ends, it will be

1:01:05 because Jared has had enough and doesn't love me anymore.

1:01:09 And of all the crap I have dished out to him over the last

1:01:11 13 years, like and like. So she was blaming herself

1:01:16 entirely for the breakdown of what was going on in her

1:01:19 marriage because of like her mental health, which if he had

1:01:25 just supported her through those things instead of going off and

1:01:28 having affairs, like, maybe that would have made a massive

1:01:32 difference. But it's.

1:01:33 Like if he didn't have her at 100% he just didn't want.

1:01:36 Her, no. Well, she another one she wrote

1:01:38 in general was if only I had given more sex and put some more

1:01:41 work into our marriage and not just being a mother.

1:01:44 Oh my God when when you have a baby you literally have zero

1:01:49 capacity for anything else. And if your if your.

1:01:52 Significant other expects intimacy on that level.

1:01:58 At that stage of your life, that is really fucked up.

1:02:03 You don't have capacity for that.

1:02:05 No, but I mean she's the one in the home doing all those things

1:02:09 for their children. He's the one going outside of

1:02:11 the home, working, etcetera. In this scenario that you know,

1:02:15 for her to know what's going on whilst he's out of the

1:02:18 household. He knew what she was doing on

1:02:20 the day-to-day. She didn't know what he was

1:02:22 doing on the day-to-day. He's coming home like going well

1:02:25 now you need to, you know, fulfill my needs and you're not.

1:02:29 But he didn't understand what was going on for her at all.

1:02:32 And then what did he give a? Shit, No.

1:02:34 No he didn't. No, he didn't want to know.

1:02:37 He wanted to expand the real estate business.

1:02:39 Mm hmm. So much so.

1:02:41 And by this stage, look, I think his parents had kind of had

1:02:43 enough as well. So they bought into the Century

1:02:46 21 franchise when he opened it up.

1:02:48 Yeah. And then, but by this stage,

1:02:51 sort of we're talking, I think 2000 and 6:00-ish now.

1:02:55 Yeah, his parents decided I'm, I'm guessing they wanted to

1:02:59 retire. So they basically sold their

1:03:02 share of the business to two other independent parties.

1:03:06 Yeah. And these new partners because

1:03:08 unfortunately for them didn't do their due diligence and check

1:03:11 the finances or or do any checks and balances I.

1:03:14 Think he'd cooked the books a bit anyway.

1:03:17 Did he? Oh, that doesn't surprise.

1:03:19 Oh no, he he definitely did when they when they had their

1:03:21 meetings. Once.

1:03:22 Oh yeah, they'd become, but I think.

1:03:23 He's been doing that already even before.

1:03:25 Yeah, OK. Yeah, that makes sense.

1:03:27 Yeah. And they didn't really check the

1:03:29 financial statements or have them properly checked out

1:03:32 independently verified or audited or anything like that.

1:03:35 Yeah, they kind of went in. I mean, he obviously probably

1:03:38 charmed them, too. And they were like, oh, yeah,

1:03:40 this guy will be a great person to be in business with.

1:03:42 Yeah. He became increasingly

1:03:45 controlling of finances, not only within the business but at

1:03:49 home as well. So Ellison didn't, by this

1:03:52 stage, didn't have Open Access to their money.

1:03:55 She had to ask him for money for things like groceries or clothes

1:04:00 for the girls or whatever. And so again, we're just

1:04:05 escalating this controlling behavior.

1:04:07 Yeah, year on year. Yeah.

1:04:10 And so within the real estate company that he was running,

1:04:12 that he was basically from all accounts, he was quite a good

1:04:15 agent and a good selling agent. And that's what he was good at.

1:04:18 But actually running the business not so great in terms

1:04:21 of financially managing it. He he was employing people to do

1:04:25 things that really he should have been doing to save the

1:04:28 company money. Because at the end of the day,

1:04:30 what I think what he really liked about this whole thing was

1:04:33 that he liked the show of it and he liked to be part of like, you

1:04:36 know, go after conferences and having it.

1:04:39 Oh yes, I'm the owner of that company, like kind of bullshit.

1:04:42 And you know, a flashy, flashy, but what actually needed to

1:04:45 happen to have that that company succeed?

1:04:48 That wasn't his concern. Like, we're sorry, there was a

1:04:51 point there where this this company was running, but on the

1:04:54 run, the smell of an oily rag, basically because there was no

1:04:58 one doing the stuff that they, well, that needed to happen to

1:05:01 actually put any money into this company.

1:05:04 Someone was saying that around this time, most real estate

1:05:08 agencies were literally rolling in money.

1:05:10 They they were making insane amounts of money, Yeah, yet.

1:05:15 He just wanted to have the notoriety of that, not the

1:05:18 actual like, hard work that it takes to run a business, whether

1:05:21 it's, you know, a business that is turning over lots of money or

1:05:25 a business that's struggling to make money.

1:05:27 As an owner of that company, you need to be running every bit of

1:05:30 that and being on top of it all. And he was not.

1:05:32 He wasn't across no. In 2008, he, well, we actually

1:05:39 don't know the exact start of this particular affair that I'm

1:05:43 about to introduce to the story, but in 2007.

1:05:47 Yeah, sorry. Yeah, 2008.

1:05:49 You're right. It was when it started the the

1:05:50 affair started in. 2007 Jared hired an assistant at Century 21

1:05:59 by the name of Tony McHugh. Yeah.

1:06:01 Now she, I don't think she was a real estate agent.

1:06:04 I think she was literally doing some like admin type work within

1:06:08 the company. And by August of 2008, their

1:06:11 affair started. I think there is a bit of, I

1:06:13 don't know the timeline, there's a bit, I've read different

1:06:16 things so, but I think that's generally I.

1:06:19 Think you started because she ended her marriage three months

1:06:22 into their affair. Yeah, the her marriage was

1:06:24 already on the rocks. And so they sort of started

1:06:26 talking about this, but both their marriages were rocky.

1:06:29 Of course, this is what they kind of connected over that.

1:06:32 Yeah. I'm really.

1:06:32 I think I'm gonna end up leaving my partner.

1:06:35 Like, it's kind of how they bonded, like, you know?

1:06:39 But he actually did. Leave.

1:06:41 She had every intent. She was speaking her truth in

1:06:43 that. Whereas fuck stick Jared

1:06:47 actually was saying that just to lure Tony and he had no

1:06:50 intention of leaving his wife. He had no love for her either.

1:06:54 I don't believe. But that was not, you know,

1:06:56 that's not yet. That's not what the show was

1:06:58 that he wanted to have in the background.

1:07:00 So yeah, no, from everything I could see of that, she yeah, she

1:07:04 categorically marriage wasn't working and ended her marriage

1:07:07 three months into we starting an affair.

1:07:09 With the understanding that Jared was gonna do the same.

1:07:11 Because he was based, he was saying to her constantly, I'm

1:07:14 gonna leave my wife, I'm gonna leave my.

1:07:15 Wife. And all that sort of stuff.

1:07:17 I think by the end of 2008, people in the office started

1:07:20 noticing that there was definitely something going on

1:07:22 there. They.

1:07:22 Really didn't hide it well at all and I don't know if they

1:07:25 intended to. And for Tony she wasn't doing

1:07:27 anything wrong, but at this point she'd ended her marriage.

1:07:29 She was now seeing another man. Yeah.

1:07:32 I mean, not to say she's not at fault in that she knew Jared was

1:07:35 married. Yeah, I think there's some

1:07:36 accountability there for sure. But she wasn't the one sort of

1:07:40 stepping out of her marriage at that point.

1:07:42 She had done what you should do absolutely in the marriage if

1:07:45 that's not where your your love is.

1:07:46 Agreed. Just really quickly, we we

1:07:49 didn't mention that Allison actually had their third baby in

1:07:53 September of 2006. So yeah, Jared's having this

1:07:56 affair with Tony. Well, Allison's at home with a

1:08:01 like a one year old, a three-year old and a 5 year old,

1:08:04 yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1:08:05 And I mean, from all accounts, she was not the first affair

1:08:09 that he had. There were many before during.

1:08:12 And after well, well, not after well, who knows?

1:08:17 Prison's a strange place. So in June of 2000, Oh, good

1:08:24 one. Well, we can only.

1:08:27 Yeah. June of 2009, Ellison.

1:08:30 So, yeah, Ellison had no idea that this affair was taking

1:08:33 place, but it had persisted. So starting in 2008, middle of

1:08:37 2008, by middle of 2009, Ellison is absolutely noticing that

1:08:41 there is something really, seriously wrong with their

1:08:44 marriage, and she's wanting to fix things.

1:08:46 So Allison's seeing a psychologist at this time.

1:08:49 She's still actively managing her mental ill health.

1:08:54 She's still taking medication, taking the Zoloft.

1:08:57 She's still regularly seeing a psychologist and checking in and

1:09:00 just making sure everything's, you know, tracking along the

1:09:02 way. It should be.

1:09:04 Yeah. Her psychologist recommended,

1:09:07 you know, she's obviously talking to her about all of this

1:09:10 stuff and how she's feeling with in relation to her relationship

1:09:14 with Jared. And the psychologist actually

1:09:18 suggested that they try some marriage counselling.

1:09:21 How did Jared feel about that? Oh.

1:09:24 No, no, it wasn't his. Wasn't his thing.

1:09:26 Turns out not his cup of tea. Because if you go and see a

1:09:29 psychologist or a counsellor, they.

1:09:33 Might see who you are. They might.

1:09:35 And especially when you're there with your significant other, you

1:09:37 can't bullshit. Well, you can bullshit to a.

1:09:39 Certain point, although he would have thought he could.

1:09:41 Yeah, bullshit. And he was smarter than

1:09:44 everyone, let's be honest. Just ask him by April of 2010.

1:09:51 So I think he attended a few of these marriage counselling

1:09:55 sessions. I know Allison turned up a few

1:09:57 times and he wasn't there. He just never showed up.

1:09:59 But she still persisted through it and was working on things

1:10:03 because, as you were saying before, she thought that the

1:10:07 marriage problems were her fault.

1:10:08 So she was obviously taking this counselling from the perspective

1:10:13 of she needs to improve things and she needs to do better, and

1:10:16 she need, you know, she was taking all of the ownership.

1:10:18 Yeah. Would have delighted him no end.

1:10:20 Oh, it's exactly what he wanted. Like she can feel shit about

1:10:22 herself because I've got nothing to feel shit about.

1:10:24 Yeah, I'm doing my job over here, bringing in the money or

1:10:27 whatever, fucking anything. He wasn't.

1:10:30 No, they were living in a fairly affluent part of Brisbane, but

1:10:34 they didn't own their house. They were renting.

1:10:36 They were like literally the shittest house on the street

1:10:38 kind of thing, you know, on the nicest St. sort of thing.

1:10:41 They he he purposely put himself in these positions of like, you

1:10:45 know, to look good, but he didn't have really what he was

1:10:49 trying to show. Like he wanted the beautiful

1:10:51 wife on his arm, you know, but she wasn't good enough.

1:10:53 Make sure she feels like shit, you know, in private but on show

1:10:57 for everyone else, absolutely. Piece.

1:11:00 Of shit. So by the April of 2010, Alison

1:11:05 wrote in her diary that she felt like things were improving

1:11:07 because she was making more of an effort.

1:11:09 I think like in terms of intimacy, she was making more of

1:11:13 an effort in that arena, which obviously pleased him.

1:11:18 In May of 2010, Jared and his business partners attended a

1:11:24 real estate conference that I believe was Interstate and the

1:11:28 business partners were absolutely gobsmacked when Tony

1:11:32 McHugh rocked up. But she actually rocked up on

1:11:35 day two of the of the conference.

1:11:41 And on day one, Jared had actually had sex with another

1:11:48 agent from another agency. Yeah.

1:11:51 And then Tony gets there, and then he's fucking her.

1:11:57 Yeah, apparently they're like sitting at the same table or

1:11:59 something, or within this, within the same room.

1:12:02 Obviously with the conference that this other woman could, it

1:12:06 was very obvious to everyone in the room that they were a thing,

1:12:11 that Tony and Jared were a thing.

1:12:13 And so she basically went oh, oh, OK, I've and backed off like

1:12:18 kind of thing. Because she was like, oh shit,

1:12:19 I've fucked a married like a mad guy or somebody who's attached.

1:12:22 Yes, yeah. Oh.

1:12:25 That poor woman. Oh yeah, yeah, that's not even

1:12:29 his wife. It's not even his wife that's

1:12:31 but then he he. It's not like that was the first

1:12:33 time he cheated on Tony either. God.

1:12:35 No, God. No, no, no.

1:12:37 In August of 2010, Jared told Allison he didn't love her

1:12:41 anymore and that he wanted to leave her.

1:12:45 Yeah, and Allison blamed herself for this, which is evident in

1:12:49 her diary entries, which we've kind of touched on.

1:12:51 So another thing she wrote in a diary, men need sex and want to

1:12:54 win and need to be the centre of attention.

1:12:56 Women work the hardest in a relationship and after they've

1:13:00 had kids get shoved aside. Oh my God.

1:13:03 I've actually written down a couple of quotes as well.

1:13:05 Different ones though, but just as hard hitting.

1:13:08 Yeah, I wish we could rewind to before we were married because

1:13:12 that was when he was bombing her and then lovely to her and doing

1:13:15 everything for her. And now it was the absolute

1:13:17 complete opposite of that. Yeah, she also wrote.

1:13:20 I hate it when my weight bulges over my pants.

1:13:23 And you look photos of her. I'm sorry there is not a scaric

1:13:27 of a bulge. She actually had a really

1:13:30 beautiful figure like a. For one who's carried three

1:13:32 children, but even done all that, like that's the thing, you

1:13:35 wouldn't have even picked that because she was, I mean, she had

1:13:38 a ballerina frame. She, you know, that she clearly

1:13:41 was able to bounce back very easily from pregnancies, you

1:13:44 know, but that's how he made her feel.

1:13:46 That wasn't how she. So like maybe when she sat down,

1:13:49 like a bit of a tummy hangover jeans or something like hello,

1:13:52 hello. Seriously.

1:13:55 Yeah, he can go fuck himself. So Jared actually put a dating

1:14:00 profile on a website now? Do you remember his name?

1:14:04 What about this? Yes, yes, yes, he called

1:14:06 himself. Oh, sorry, I didn't write it

1:14:08 down. Not as good as I actually

1:14:10 think's husband, surely. Oh no.

1:14:12 But he called himself. It was a fairly normal name.

1:14:15 I thought I wrote it down, but I don't think I have.

1:14:17 I may have. Like, Oh no, Overland.

1:14:19 Oh, I don't. Know this, it is overland.

1:14:21 That was well done, no? Sorry.

1:14:22 OK. So that that's a whole persona

1:14:24 that he used, Yes, in real estate.

1:14:26 Yes. Oh God, what did he do with that

1:14:28 whole Daniel overland? Yeah.

1:14:29 Oh, something like. Something like that.

1:14:31 But anyway, so he also set up a dating profile.

1:14:33 Oh, now I do remember reading. All that.

1:14:34 Well, sorry, yes. And on the dating profile, he

1:14:38 wrote as like, I think you can put like essentially a tagline.

1:14:41 Yeah. And his tagline was married, but

1:14:44 don't want to be what? Mm Hmm.

1:14:49 Oh, let me. OK, All right, so let me just

1:14:51 think I'm scrolling through these websites and like, oh,

1:14:54 he's a nice looking man. Because he wasn't a bad looking

1:14:56 bloke, you know, knowing what I know of him, God, no.

1:14:59 But if I didn't know anything about him, I'd be like, OK, all

1:15:03 right, not bad, you know? OK, now let's look at his

1:15:05 profile. That's going to make you want to

1:15:08 fuck him. Yeah, no.

1:15:10 And it wasn't like it was a nationally medicine like people

1:15:13 seeking out affairs website. It was just like a normal dating

1:15:16 website. God, who thinks that that's

1:15:21 what's going to attract? That's attractive, but it did

1:15:23 because he met people on that site.

1:15:25 Who are these people? Yeah, I I don't know that's.

1:15:29 Just so wrong on so many levels. If you don't want to be married,

1:15:33 people, don't be married. Yeah.

1:15:35 Like really, you can't have your cake and eat it too?

1:15:38 Yeah, if you've if you meet someone who's happy for you to

1:15:40 go outside the marriage, like in terms of that stuff.

1:15:43 Whatever. Oh, but haven't you heard?

1:15:45 Open marriages are out now. Monogamy's back.

1:15:48 So. So it should be.

1:15:49 Yeah. But if that's what you choose

1:15:50 between consensual people, whatever.

1:15:53 Yeah. But to openly in that sense, put

1:15:57 it out there like, I'm married and she doesn't know anything

1:15:59 about this, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna meet other people.

1:16:02 Yeah. That's just rank.

1:16:03 I know. So unattractive.

1:16:05 Yeah. Oh, yuck.

1:16:08 I think around that time when he was setting up the profile as

1:16:10 well, Tony had basically said to him, unless you're going to

1:16:12 leave, Alice and I actually can't be in this anymore, and

1:16:14 they split up. Yeah.

1:16:16 For three, just going back for three months.

1:16:19 So who decided that open marriages are out?

1:16:21 Who? Who?

1:16:22 Makes that decision. I was listening to it on I think

1:16:25 it was like on Mama Mia out loud or something.

1:16:27 And I think, I think the reason they say that is because, you

1:16:30 know, like in TV shows and stuff for a while there, for probably

1:16:35 years actually. Now, yeah.

1:16:36 It was kind of a bit more accepted that maybe some people

1:16:39 engaged in those kinds of things and it was just something we

1:16:41 talked about. But now, apparently all of

1:16:43 that's now moving back to monogamy and.

1:16:45 So like, media kind of decide these things.

1:16:48 Yeah. OK, cool.

1:16:48 Just trying to work out what. Yeah.

1:16:50 Cool. Yeah, cool.

1:16:51 Who do I need to consult? Yeah.

1:16:52 Where am I going? So Tony and Jared Reid kindled

1:16:57 their romance after three months apart.

1:17:00 Yeah. Now during this time, so I think

1:17:03 Ellison had found out about the affair.

1:17:05 Yeah. Said Tony needs to fuck right

1:17:08 off and leave Century 21. So she did.

1:17:11 Well, he also, it was also the partners were also saying to

1:17:13 him, you need to get rid of people who are not like you need

1:17:15 to fulfil some of these roles rather than but paying other

1:17:18 people to do these roles. The partners were like you

1:17:20 cannot be in a relationship. With there was.

1:17:23 It's going to end badly. Yeah, there was two parts where

1:17:25 it was like you need to do the job yourself that she's doing

1:17:28 and at the same time you cannot be working here with her having

1:17:32 an affair and etcetera. Like it was all like this isn't

1:17:35 on so many levels not working. You need to fix it.

1:17:38 So they that was it was both financial as well as the

1:17:42 perceived stuff that was going on.

1:17:45 Oh. Yeah, yeah.

1:17:47 So Ellison ended up coming to work.

1:17:50 So by this stage, the partners know that the business is in

1:17:54 like pretty dire financial situation.

1:17:56 Yeah. And they're in.

1:17:59 Was it? So was it the business that was

1:18:01 in like $1,000,000 worth of debt or was that personal debt to

1:18:04 Jared? Oh, I think it was.

1:18:06 Both like a combo of the two I think.

1:18:08 That the only stuff he had was the business OK, because they

1:18:11 didn't own property. No, they didn't.

1:18:13 So they didn't own mortgage, but so I I dare say it was business,

1:18:16 the business that was leaking the money and yeah, but.

1:18:19 Well, I know he tried to. No, he had borrowed money from

1:18:22 like, friends and family too, to try and keep the business

1:18:25 afloat. Yeah.

1:18:26 He'd actually borrowed some money back again from his

1:18:28 parents, too, from when they divested their.

1:18:31 That's true. Their shares in the company.

1:18:35 Yeah. So.

1:18:36 Yeah. All right.

1:18:37 So now just can I just clarify? Sorry.

1:18:39 So because at this point that he brings Allison in as well to

1:18:43 work at the company because it's a good way of saving money for

1:18:46 the business in that they have her doing some of these roles

1:18:49 rather than paying external people.

1:18:52 Because I mean, it's a bit of a tax write off all those sorts of

1:18:53 things, stuff like that. But was she also still back?

1:18:56 Was she back at Flight Centre at all?

1:18:58 No, no, no. OK.

1:19:00 She didn't go back there after having.

1:19:01 Children she didn't know. OK, cool.

1:19:02 No worries. So.

1:19:04 Allison was doing office duties like she and she was really, I

1:19:09 mean, she was such a clever woman.

1:19:11 She was like trying to get their finances back on track and like

1:19:16 get the office processes and procedures all in place.

1:19:19 She was doing like, everything, honestly.

1:19:21 And I, I just want to flag this as potential part of motive for

1:19:27 later, OK? I'm, I'm really curious to see

1:19:30 what you have to say about that. OK, let's let's.

1:19:32 Yeah, we can park it now, but I just want to flag that, yeah.

1:19:37 So in Allison's mind, Tony and Jared were no longer seeing one

1:19:45 another. Sorry, no, she didn't even know

1:19:50 about the affairs at this point. Did.

1:19:52 He no. So when she did find out, he did

1:19:54 call, he did call it off with with Tony, but it was only very

1:19:59 briefly. Yeah, so it must have been.

1:20:00 Because she was then she and look, it sounds like she, Alison

1:20:04 became a little bit controlling, but I think rightly so in that

1:20:07 she was like, OK, I'm now aware of this.

1:20:10 I think was a friend told her as well that this affair was going

1:20:13 on. Oh yes.

1:20:15 Yeah. So she then said she went to

1:20:17 the, she was again back to see a psychologist, wanted to save her

1:20:19 marriage. And she, they put in all these

1:20:22 sort of rules, I guess, around her, and she was able to have

1:20:24 access to his phone, you know, to check because he promised her

1:20:27 that the affair was over. It wasn't.

1:20:29 It wasn't. But yeah.

1:20:31 So yeah, he did sort of call it off briefly.

1:20:33 But yeah. So she had access to his phone

1:20:35 then. And and being able to ask him

1:20:37 questions each night, they would have 15 minutes where she could

1:20:39 ask questions. So that that gave her a period

1:20:41 of time. It was only brief 15 minutes to

1:20:44 get all that stuff out that she was feeling or ask questions and

1:20:46 find out things, you know, about what his day was or whatever, to

1:20:49 know what he was up to. But that time, then the rest of

1:20:52 the day couldn't be her playing all that stuff out through her,

1:20:55 you know, brain. She could save it all up for

1:20:57 those 15 minutes, get it out of her system so they could move

1:21:00 forward as a married couple without that lingering stuff.

1:21:03 Yeah, but which I? Don't know if that's a great

1:21:05 idea. Alison Well, look, the the

1:21:08 psychologist actually says to this day she she actually

1:21:11 admitted in court she doesn't think that was a good thing for

1:21:13 her to have done. Yeah, but I mean, you live and

1:21:15 works for different people. It works for some people,

1:21:17 doesn't work farther. Yeah, but Gerard, Gerard and

1:21:23 Tony. So Allison and leave work at

1:21:25 leave the century 21 at about 2:33 o'clock to go and pick the

1:21:29 girls up from school. And then Gerard would go and

1:21:32 have a meeting off site and go and hook up with Tony at that

1:21:35 time, like, well, Allison was off picking up the kids from

1:21:38 school. Like he's just an asshole.

1:21:40 But he also set up then because Allison had access to his phone

1:21:43 now and thinks he set up a fake e-mail account.

1:21:47 Yep. So they stopped texting each

1:21:49 other. They were emailing each other

1:21:50 and using this other e-mail account.

1:21:52 And he would only call Tony from the landline phone at work.

1:21:56 He'd never call her from his mobile.

1:21:58 Yeah, so he was still, you know, very deceptive in his actions

1:22:01 of. Keeping this affair going, You

1:22:03 know how you were saying that Allison had like the 10 or 15

1:22:05 minutes or whatever it was every night to have a chat with him

1:22:08 and ask him any questions about the affair?

1:22:10 I actually wrote down a question that she supposedly asked him.

1:22:14 I thought this goes to show her state of mind at the time.

1:22:18 She wanted to know every single detail.

1:22:20 She wanted to know everything. So much so that one of the

1:22:22 questions she asked him, and she'd written this in her diary.

1:22:25 Yeah. Was did you put the seats down

1:22:28 when you had sex in the car? Like that is the level of detail

1:22:31 she wanted to know about the affair.

1:22:34 Now I can see, you know, I'm sure some people probably want

1:22:37 to know nothing about it and just to if they're going to move

1:22:40 on, move on or I don't know, but I think I'd be the same as her,

1:22:45 I'd want to know. Everything, well, I think that

1:22:47 that's that that's really heartbreaking because what she

1:22:50 was basically doing was comparing herself to her and

1:22:52 doing the whole like, because I'd probably do it this way.

1:22:55 Does he like it the way she did it instead of how I would do

1:22:58 that? You know, that's to the level

1:22:59 of, I mean, her own way of comprehending all of this and

1:23:05 being able to in her mind think she's going to fix it of like,

1:23:08 you know, I've got to meet those standards.

1:23:10 I've got to be what she was. That's what he wanted.

1:23:12 I've got to now be what he wants.

1:23:15 And that's. You should never have to change

1:23:18 yourself to please a man No ever.

1:23:21 She was enough. She was.

1:23:24 She was more than enough. Yeah.

1:23:30 Hey everyone, we're just coming in to let you know that we've

1:23:32 decided to actually cut this episode into two.

1:23:35 I know. I think at the end of our

1:23:38 previous episode we were like, oh, we're not going to do any.

1:23:40 Our next Alison Baden Clay, that's not going to be a

1:23:42 two-part of it. Turns out when we actually

1:23:45 recorded this as one block, it was nearly three hours long.

1:23:48 Yeah. So we have decided for the

1:23:50 interests of everyone's ears, we're going to cut, cut it in

1:23:54 half. And stay tuned next week for

1:23:56 Part 2. Yeah, I think we've basically

1:23:58 cutting off here where we've just discussed all the back

1:24:01 story of Alison and we're gonna kick off next week talking about

1:24:05 from when she starts, she goes, she disappears.

1:24:07 So we'll come back next week and address all that, the goings on

1:24:11 for that. Yeah.

1:24:12 So that will be a a clean cut of between the two episodes.

1:24:15 Yeah. Thanks Meg for finding a good

1:24:18 place to stop for today. Thanks to everybody for joining

1:24:21 us today. Make sure to follow us on all

1:24:24 the socials and if you'd like to buy the coffee, you can do so at

1:24:28 buymeacoffee.com/two Crime Besties.

1:24:32 Excellent. See you next week.

1:24:34 Stay curious. Crime besties.

1:24:36 Bye.