Episode 57: Gable Tostee

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties. Here we are for another episode. How are you today, Meg? I'm. Good this week, how about you? Are you feeling a bit better than last week or last time we spoke? Yeah, yeah. You're feeling like tired and lethargic and all of the things. That sounds pretty standard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mum life. Yeah, oh mum, life, work, life, all that. Yeah, it's been a full on week. But no, we've actually had no footy now and also one of the boys got to buy this weekend for basketball.

0:43 So our week for the sports stuff midweek has been one training session and I cannot tell you the. Luxury of it. I'm actually, I'm feeling I'm coming into the weekend ahead of schedule on the laundry. You know, like I've just managed to get all these little jobs done in the evenings that don't get done because we're piss fighting around everywhere doing all the the after school sports situations. So I'm actually feeling somewhat as much as it's been a chaotic week and a crazy week in work life sort of more so.

1:15 But in my in this stuff, I'm like feeling quite ready for a cruisy weekend. Nice. I love that for you. I love that for you. You would. Have had still at least two lots of training sessions. Yeah, but that was OK. It still meant we had two less than we than we normally do. So that was lovely one. Of those being the Friday night Which? Delighted to be done with the Friday night. I love that even my eldest son, he's like oh get my Fridays back. Yeah, 'cause it's so onerous on you to go and kick the footy with your mates while your brother.

1:44 Trains. Oh God, he's just not that kid. He's like, oh, just get tired of sitting in the car with my iPad.

1:53 Oh. Yes, yes. No. I'm very, very happy that the footy season's over and we're down to 1 sport again, no. Look, I mean I've I've loved watching the footy this season from both the Littles and the big. They've both been great to watch and be part of, but I'm really ready to have a bit more time back. Yeah, it's just a a different, a change of pace. A change of pace, definitely. Yeah. We're recording this episode a week later than we first intended because we lost our dog this week or last Friday, a week ago today.

2:22 So we've had a bit of a sad week and it's taken us all like, Oh my gosh. I mean, it all kind of happened so quickly. I think I mentioned in one of the. Previous the week before. Yeah, that's, she'd received a cancer diagnosis and it just progressed very, very quickly. And it got beyond to the point where we were able to do anything at all aside from what eventuated. So yeah, it was really, we've had a really sad week. And it's, I mean, animals are part of your family. She's been around since before both kids were born.

2:56 And I mean, you guys have probably heard her 1000 times in episodes with the barking. You know, she's just, she's very, very much missed. It's it's, it's a really weird thing coming home and not having her sort of greeting you at the door and just, you can feel that she's not here. She's not in the house. It's a. I'm just feeling odd here that we won't know when the parcels are being delivered. You know, and all those probably not the worst. Thing no, but it is it's awful. I just yeah, they are.

3:24 There's so much they're they're another child in your family and. It's really hard and for for the boys, it's really the first significant loss they've had in their lives, which you know, is lucky in some ways, but it's also a massive life life lesson for Lucas, who's only 8. I feel like it's taken him a lot to sort of process and get. Yeah, they're probably still processing it to. I fully understand it all. Yeah. I mean, we don't. I mean, death's so hard to comprehend. It's so abstract. No matter what, It's so fine when you go through it.

3:56 Yeah, Yeah. Oh, here we, he will be, he will get there. But it's, I mean, she's always gonna be part of your life. And that's right. I love that, you know, you've got all those great memories and, and things that you'll always have of her. And yeah, yeah, she's very special. She was such a beautiful girl. Yeah. So that's been our week, really. It's been, yeah, just sort of getting used to what's now the new normal at home and, and all of that sort of stuff. So lots of tears and lots of sadness, but also, as you said, lots of happy memories 'cause she was such an amazing dog.

4:30 Like she, you know, she was here when we brought both boys home from hospital and we were looking at through all of the photos of that. And she was so protective when they were little. Yeah. She wouldn't leave their sides. You know, we've got photos of her like sitting next to their little rockers or sitting lying next to their cots. So yeah, she was. She was gorgeous. Yeah, that's the best. I mean, you know, you gotta think of it in that way of like how special it's been to have her as part of the family and they know what she's meant to you all.

4:55 And you know, they're here for a reason. And yeah, and it's sad they're not here longer with us. Why? Can't they live a lifespan? We do, and I was. Saying to you, that was the one drawback of the breed of dog that I got was it really made me hesitate in terms of getting that breed of dog, even though it ticked all the boxes and everything, every other aspect. But he unfortunately being such a big dog has a shorter lifespan than the most even. And so you kind of just hope that they outlive any of those possibilities.

5:22 So, you know, but that, that's the thing, that's the worst bit of it all, is that they don't live as long as us. And that's it's it. But yeah, they, they're here for all those right reasons when they're here. Yeah, I know all those movies, you know, they do those, there's those movies where like, you know, the, the dog spirit will like come into another dog spirit. You know, they have another family and bring that family, the joy. They've brought another family. And I was like, those movies just bring me to tears so bad.

5:46 Like it's 'cause it really they are. I mean, as I've said to you, every family needs a dog because how love is not completely unconditional. Yeah. Whereas the dog's love is. And I mean, I remember growing up my, one of my, my brothers particularly was drawn to the dog. And he would, you know, get in trouble at, you know, and everything. And then he'd be outside seeing with the dog, telling the dog, well, it's his troubles. You know, like so many images of him sitting on the back step talking to the dog about.

6:10 He must have been in trouble a lot. Oh yeah.

6:14 Yeah. And you know, every kid needs that, you know, because sometimes we are not having our best day and that the dog becomes that person or that thing that they can go to and and invent and have those moments with that. You know, they they listen. They listen every time. Yeah. Yeah. So they are amazing to have in your family. Yeah. Yeah. Very much, yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh, it's, it's yeah. But that's OK. It's part of all part of it. And we were lucky to have her for the time that we did. So yeah, she, yeah, she was great.

6:48 Absolutely. I'm gonna dedicate this episode. Totally, yes. Yes to Luna, Yeah. So what else has been going on for you this week? I I had a 40th over the weekend. Now I was telling you this story because Oh my God. OK, so I had a few drinks. There were some shots, I mean. And let's just remember here, you've already had your 40th. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've forgotten that, I think. I think, I think I did well. I was dropping it like it was hot and. I love someone said now that I'm over 40 I need to drop it like it's mildly lukewarm rather than dropping it like it's hot.

7:29 Well, I've learned that lesson the hard way because we got home and it was not a late, late night. I think we were home by like 1. But late enough. Yeah, late enough. I got into bed and I was, you know, mildly inebriated. I get into bed and I fell off to sleep. Fine. Yeah. I woke up at like 3:30 in the morning and my knees. As in like the drunkness, then obviously when I'm. Obviously worn off and my knees were absolutely killing me. Called over 40 knees Oh. My God, I didn't realize it would change on a diet.

8:03 Totes just downhill from. Here it's all the inflammation. I don't even know, but for days later I'm like my knees. I just cannot do this anymore. No dropping it like it's hot. Not anymore. It's done. Yeah. So I'm learning these lessons the hard way. Obviously, I don't know if I'll actually learn my lesson. I'll let you know next time I go to a party. But. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was. I mean, it was such a fun night. I love it. Oh yeah. I bet you had a great time. Yeah, absolutely. But poof, felt it for a few days later those.

8:33 Knees don't quite hold up no more. And then I was, I was the following morning I had, I was the trainer for Ollies footy team and I reckon I had to run out onto the. Fold like it's just. Four or five times. Murphy's Lord every other game you don't have to do anything. Yeah. And our runner who's one of the dads on our team, he like a kid went down and I was like running over there thinking I was doing really well. Well, he's like flown past me. Like my knees. Oh, my knees. Yeah, I can't run that.

9:02 The Voltar hasn't kicked in. Yeah, that's right. Oh, I hadn't even smashed an anti-inflammatory at this point, but I'm like, I'm going to need to because I'm not going to be able to get out there or something bad happened. Got to get on that horse gel. Yeah, I think the horse gel, oh, that horse gel is great. It is so good. Yeah, I. Love it. Oh yes. Welcome. Welcome. Cheers. It was a trial by fire, but I'm here. Yeah. Yeah, oh God, you know, I feel that pretty much every day, you know, like I know the other day I was in my office and the person had arrived.

9:34 I need to see them and and he'd gone through like as if, you know, he didn't want to see me sort of stuff, but I need to grab him. So I was like, I better be quick kind of thing. Got up out of my chair and went oh wait, oh God, wait till the body's got to unseize after sitting down for so. Long. Yeah, you've been sitting down. Now you can't. Just don't just be so presumptuous as to think you can get up and move. Move. Move. Quickly. Forget that. Yeah. No, no. No, no, no, not anymore. Join. The 40s club.

9:59 Yeah, but I'm feeling like as it gets warmer, it'll be easy. Right. Well, sorry. No, no, just. Give me some egg for God's sake. No, it does get better in the warmer weather. That's good. Thank you. Thank you. That's all I needed. But just don't go doing stupid shit.

10:17 Yes, ma'am. I've seen people like do the whole like, you know, like when I, you know, before I was 40, I could, you know, those the bench seats, you know, kind of thing. And you'd, you'd get it. You're getting real quick and easy. And then after 40 it's you gotta lift your leg over the bench. Ohhh yeah, yeah. That's where you're at. That is where we're at. God, I've got quite a few shout outs today, so I might get going with those. Thank you to everybody who's commented again this week. I feel like it just happens every week, but we've had another record week in terms of comments on our episodes.

10:49 So I'm talking on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and we've also had lots of comments on our Tik Toks and Facebook groups as well. So please keep those coming because not only do I love reading them and I think I said this in a previous episode. Well, if I need a bit of a pick me up, I'd just head on over to buy me a coffee and read what's been written in there. Because. Absolutely. You know, love it. Real pick me up. So this week I've got to say, we've got to say thank you to Chantelle Ellen, Theresa McNamara, Rachel Johnson, who gave us, who bought us a couple of coffees on Buy Me a Coffee because she won a $10 bet with her boss.

11:26 Oh yes. And and she's like, I didn't know what to do with my $10.00, so I decided to give it to you guys. So I think her boss listens as well. So, you know, thank you to Rachel and to her boss, Love. That one, thank you too. Yes. Good on ya to Julie Slinner, who has also given us a case suggestion for one that we didn't have on our list yet, the West Memphis Three. Yes, I can't believe we didn't have that on our list. I don't believe. That now all right. Perfect. So thank you, Julie Katrina Jenner, who thinks that we need to absolutely make some absolute piece of shit merch.

12:04 So I don't think she's saying the merch will be the absolute piece of shit. I think she's saying that we need to have. I don't know. I'd be. Pretty crap at it. We're looking into it. We're looking into it. This is all very new territory for us. Oh God. So we will not release anything that's an absolute piece of shit, but we can release something that says absolute piece of shit. We'll, we'll keep you posted. We've said this before I think, I can't remember if we said it on the actual podcast or not.

12:28 Like but no one wants to wear a T-shirt that says piece of shit. Yeah, but they do, it turns out clearly. So we'll do. Katrina's not the only one. We also oh someone else I think it might have been someone else did mention that they they. I remember reading that as well. And then one of the mums at school. Yes, she's down for. It she is, Kim is 100% down for it and I can imagine her wearing it too. Not because she's a piece of shit, but anything. Because it. But yeah, she loves it. She loves. It it's just and like, yeah, we're here for that.

12:59 So I think we might have to bite the bullet. But also, guys, please let us know for the wider community, Yeah. Is it worth us putting out merch that says well we probably wouldn't write the word shit we'd have? To do POS on it, I don't know. Or or would we do like SH star tea or something? Yeah, let's do that. Let us know, yeah, what you want and we'll look into it a bit further. Then we've got Claire Lombardo, who found us by accident, and I loved that she signed off her little thing on Buy Me Coffee.

13:27 Much love. And murder, Claire. Murder. So thank you, Claire. And then to Lisa Porter, who said she found us, that she was going down a mushroom lady rabbit hole. Yeah. And somehow stumbled upon us and. Because we haven't done a mushroom episode yet. We have. We've touched on it, but we've. Spoken about her, but we haven't. Obviously, we're still. We will get there. And she she said at the bottom. Staying curious. Yeah. Thank you for staying curious, Lisa. And then we also had a lovely message and and buy me a coffee as well from Kate, who's like at tagline or whatever is at gather and sew.

14:08 I haven't actually looked up her Instagram but please have a look because I think she does clothing alterations and that kind of nice and she said she listens to us while sewing and doing all of the mug. Things oh, I need to get on to her. And she I'm always. Too short for my pants. Yeah, well, yeah. And she can sympathize with all of the mum life stuff and the eating and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, you know, we're all in the same boat here, ladies. And yeah, the odd. So I was. Looking at our stats on that recently and I think it's something like 9%.

14:40 Yeah. So how high and welcome all of you and thanks for joining me. And we do get the like a lot of comments from men on TikTok mainly I would say you probably come through that way. But we've definitely had, I know we had a dad once he he commented and loved our show and he loved our precision on our swearing. Just how articulate we are. How did you see that comment? Actually, it was great. He's like, I just hope if my girls are gonna swear or something, then they learn it. They let you do it like you do.

15:07 Oh. Look, I'm glad we can be a role model for someone. I think I explained to him that you know, well there is research to show that, that that women who swear are more intelligence. Well, you know, I mean, we prove that case, don't we? Totally prove that. Oh. God, yeah. All right, should we get into today's case? Let's get into. Today's one it's this is a yeah, good one. It's a total mindfuck. It is one. It really, really is. Yeah. So actually just really quickly before we get into that I we need to mention that we are actually starting a patriot.

15:41 Oh yes, this is big. News, this is actually very big news this again, something that we've talked about for a long time, but we are getting a lot of messages from people who want to support us ongoing, which is lovely, amazing. And it goes a really long way in helping us, you know, upgrade our our equipment and grabbing a wine and all of those things. So we really appreciate it. And to that end, we've decided to start a Patreon. So we'll put all of the details in the show notes to this episode. Yeah, of how you can join that.

16:09 We've got A, at the moment, we've got a $5 a month option. And what you will receive for that is you will receive a link for AD free episodes. You will also receive a bonus monthly or we're sort of still figuring out how often this is going to happen. But we're going to have a banter type episode. So it'll be just about different topics. It'll be a lot like this sort of intro banter. We might talk about, you know, cases that are in the media at the time. Please suggest anything that you want to hear us talk about.

16:40 Yeah. So you'll get an sort of that bonus episode at least once a month. Yeah. And. Probably we'll do like our updates on things, if there's updates on cases, stuff like that. That's right, and you'll also get a shout out in one of our regular episodes. So please, if that is something that you might might like to support us in, you can absolutely do that. And all of the links will be in the show notes to this episode. Amazing, can't wait and I'm looking forward to. It yeah, me too. Me too. And I think we can build like a very different sort of community there too.

17:10 And again, we're really happy because this is a new thing for us. We're happy to be guided by what what our Patreons want. Yeah. So thank you to everybody who goes ahead and does that. Please come and join us big oh great fun. Great fun. We will have a lot of fun over there. We might even do a couple of lives. We'll see. Oh yeah. Really scary, no? That'll be fun. Then we can have interaction with like that's. True. Yeah. Great. No, that is cool. That's really cool. Yeah. Love it. All right, all.

17:37 Right, let's get into today's episode. Well, isn't he just. Oh my God. So today we are talking about the case of Gable Tosti and Warina Wright. I think most people will have a vague idea or definitely will have heard about it. Yeah, in the media. It happened in 2014 and I remember at the time hearing about it, but I didn't know any of the details. I really want. To learn? Not really. I knew I knew she'd fallen from the balcony. I knew there was conjecture around whether he was involved or not, but I didn't really know anything else that was about it.

18:13 This one got me when it happened. I was really hooked on at the time kind of going like, what the hell, like this Just I I think, well, to be honest, I reckon he he's he's probably falls in the category of almost the original Tinder swindler. Like, I think this was really the full, the first real case around the whole idea of like these apps that were being used for dating and then this eventuated to someone dying that we really sort of heard of in the media. Yeah. But for, for me, I, I, I think feel that that would be the case.

18:44 Yeah. And we had a little bit of a taster of what Tinder is on a couple of weekends ago to like to go with this case. So we, we grabbed a a young friend who is, is on Tinder and we we don't mention it because we've said to her not allowed to shout her out until she does certain things for us. So yeah, that's. Right. She still hasn't done what she said she was gonna do, so she's not getting an actual named shout out today, No. But we grabbed her phone. Got it up too. Ohh, God, no 'cause I spoke to about it actually just yesterday.

19:14 So so we were learning how to use this Tinder because I had no idea what the hell to do. And you're like, I know you had to swipe, but which way do you swipe Amazon it like, you know, swipe it every. Nah, Nah Nah Nah it really. Gets me how like it it's literally and it's kind of I can understand the addiction of it of like looking through all these people and going, Oh yeah, I like you. No, I don't like you, not like you. And but it's so subjective of like just a photo. I mean, we're so superficial a couple where you'd go like then you can click on and find and see more photos.

19:46 But it's again all based on photos and what people look. Like, and they do have their little captions because I remember when I looked at at one of them, I was like, Oh yeah, it looks nice. And then I read something that he wrote and I'm like, oh hell no, no. No, no, your initial reactions are all just based on. But then I think, I think that was the guy that I accidentally then swiped yes on. Yeah, we. Kind of went one way, I went the wrong way, what do I do? And she's like. Immediately he messaged her, Yeah.

20:12 That's right. And she was like, oh, just ignore it. Don't. Worry, I know 'cause I yesterday said to her, Oh, so how's, how's your Tinder profile going now? Since we've been playing around with it and that guy's been messaging. No, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. She just keeps ignoring him, but he's just, he just keeps sending her love hearts. Oh, yeah, 'cause that's what he did. Like literally within 30 seconds of the matching, yeah, he sent her love heart. And I was like, oh, sorry, can you block? Surely you can.

20:39 Block. Sure you can. I'm sure you can, I said to him. Just maybe talk to him. Oh, maybe I'd like I accidentally found their soulmate. Well. This is it. You just never know how even this you're judging off of a photo. Quite possibly. You're literally swiping the wrong way on your on your soulmate. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah, but it's a it's a really an I I'm just the wrong generation for it. Maybe. I don't know. Although there's plenty of people my age on there, I guess. Oh. Absolutely. I can't come at it.

21:05 You know, we were settled in relationships before this became a thing, so it's not something that you or I have ever done. But I actually looked up some Tinder stats because I was really fascinated by the amount of users and how people use it. Because our friend who you're talking about, we were asking her like how much she pays and it is expensive. Oh really? I had no idea you even paid for it. Oh yeah, you have to pay. Oh God, I had no idea. In order to like you get you paid, there's different like levels and how much you message someone and all of that.

21:37 So in 2024, which is the latest stats I could find Tinder brought in. This is worldwide 1.94 billion U.S. dollars in revenue. Crazy. They're right. They're right. Everyone but I think men have to pay more maybe? I'm not really sure. Is it a bit like the whole actually Madison deal like in the maybe maybe. There's 60 million monthly users who are active. Yeah, in it's available in 190 countries. How many countries are there in the world, Like 193 or something? It now back in this day. So when this case happened in 2014, there were 1 billion swipes per day on Tinder around the world.

22:29 1 billion swipes. So yeah, I can see you, you you go Yep, Yep, Yep. No, no, no, no, no, no. We. Probably did 20 whilst we were just. Standing there for 2 minutes, yeah, there were 12. Million a lot with the no direction. Yeah, there were 12 million matches in 2014 out. Of a billion, Yep, a billion swipes to 12 million a matching that's. Very low. Low, it's really in terms of like, yeah, OK. The average engagement per user per day is 90 minutes. That's average. So the average user, this is back in 2014, spent 90 minutes and so you can see how you get a billion swipes before they're swiping for 90 minutes a day.

23:12 Jesus, you can probably get 1000 swipes in. See I OK see I thought that the way Tinder worked was something to do with your location and that too, and that you're only OK. So I thought you only. Patient. Got like to me, I thought you'd open up the app and go, oh, like there's only a couple people in my area that are on Tinder, you know what I mean? Like. But I, I think so many people are obviously so many people if they've got 60 million monthly active users, yeah, that's a. Lot. That's a lot, yeah.

23:41 OK wow. It just blows my mind. Yeah. But I just don't understand it as a dating. I don't know. What is it? What don't you understand? Like I. You would go and meet up with someone that you have no idea who they are other than what they look like and potentially even like, particularly back in 2014. I know now they have protections a little bit on this. Yeah, but you don't even know if that person who rocks up is actually the person in the photos. Yeah, yeah, that's changed now it's. Changed now, but even still you could get it.

24:10 They can get around it. I think I from my understanding, OK, but it's less it's, it's a lot more. It's hard, difficult to get around. Yeah. But definitely back in 2014, 100% you could have found that you walked into a situation where it was completely not the person on their on their profile or they used photos from 10 years ago, sort of stuff that you go, oh crap. I thought I was dating a 30 year old and now I'm walking in here a 60 year old. Yeah, Yeah. So I just feel like it's. I just think how else I was reading some commentary about this case in particular.

24:44 So Werena Wright was over in Australia because she was attending an ex work colleagues wedding, a friend's wedding. Yeah, and she was staying with another friend at the time. But this other friend had other commitments that she needed to go to. So what was Werena to do all day? Someone someone wrote in a in an article I was reading about this, You don't go out to meet friends like you're not going to go out and seek out friendship. So Tinder's a good way to meet someone to spend time with when you're in a place like that and but.

25:18 It's just, it's just a hook up. Well, I, I guess for some people that's what it is, but for some people, I think, I'm sure they want genuine connection. This is it. And I, I think that's where there's like a different users have different expectations of who they're walking into. Yeah, and. Like in this situation I dare say from know what I know of Gable Tosti, he was literally there to like meet her to have sex. Oh 100% he was. I mean, we, we know that from things, he's then since admitted. Yeah, and I guess in some ways she was too, in that she was not from here, she was from New Zealand.

25:53 She was here for a short time for a wedding, etcetera. That she wouldn't. I mean, look, she had had a pretty, pretty bad breakup in New Zealand before coming to Australia. And so she was coming here and she was getting onto the app, you know, kind of like, you know, go, oh, someone will make me feel good about myself and made-up with somebody that, you know, that I can feel that I've got, I've still got it like after having a pretty bad breakup, which I can fully understand that. And getting yourself out there.

26:18 I think she'd also had a an encounter in New Zealand before she came to Australia on Tinder. That was actually fine. Yeah. Like, it was a yeah. They hooked up and it was, but it was a pleasant and happy experience and they just kind of moved on. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. So she after this bad breakup, she, that's where she'd kind of like, gone. Oh yeah. Had had a positive experience with Tinder beforehand I guess, yeah. Yeah, sorry, but there. But I still think there's a difference in their expectation of what was gonna happen on that.

26:48 But if you look at the messages they were sending to one another, she knew. She knew that was what the his intention was because, yeah, he wrote in one of the messages that he sent to her that he was, what did he say? He was a freak. A freak between the sheets or something. And yeah. Oh, he's so fucking gross. There's some I mean, we'll get. To a lot of it. But he's like, he's fucking foul. Yeah, but he of the things he says to her are fucking foul. Yeah, but she still went along with it and and still wanted to meet up and all of that.

27:20 So look, there's you're right in in saying that you don't know who you're meeting up with. But then also we all make these choices. I'm not saying she chose for this to happen by any stretch of the imagination. Not this, no, but they've gone back to his anyway. Let's let's. Start from the start from the start, yeah. So this all happened on the 8th of August in 2014 where Rena had arrived in Australia on the 29th of July and I think she was staying, plan had planned to stay for a couple of weeks to obviously attend the wedding, which had already happened.

27:54 But then she was going to do some sightseeing and she was staying in Surfers Paradise. She was staying in Queensland. Yeah, it's a beautiful spot, very touristy, lots going on. She was meeting up with some other friends that she had in Australia and just having a really lovely time and. 26, she was just, you know, living life and, you know, getting out, getting yourself out there, you know, I guess and having experiences because she was, from all accounts, she was she was born in Philippines and then moved to New Zealand when she was three.

28:26 Yeah, her family was 7th Day Adventists. But and her family described her as being someone who was quite strongly opinionated on things, but very caring and motherly as well. Yeah. So she had this real soft side that she was just someone who, but she's also a bit of a nerd and I love that. Yeah. So she loved her Dragon Ball Z, but on the other extent of that, she was really adventurous. So she did a lot of like various things in terms of adventure things she's, you know, skydiving's and all those sorts of things.

28:54 But she she so she liked her skydiving and did lots of things like that. But she, what she trained in was Muay Thai, so she had a little bit of, you know, martial arts experience background, yeah, as well. So she had like, so many different elements to her personality. Yeah. And but yeah, I love the Dragon Ball Z. She's just, she was and really mad on it. Yeah. Just like my brother was back in the day. Oh. Serious. She loved it. Oh, he loved it. She also loved, like, anime and was into all of that sort of all of that sort of stuff.

29:23 Yeah. So she lived with her younger sister Maretza over in in Lower Hut in New Zealand. She worked as oh, now what did she work as? Oh, she worked in a call centre for a bank. And she wasn't like super into it, but it was sort of a means to an end, I think in terms of she had enough money to be able to do those things, live her life. Her friends would often come over for these. Like they would play, I'm gonna say Nintendo, but it probably wasn't Nintendo, like PlayStation games. And they would come for the entire weekend, bring their consoles and all play together and and have a really, really great time.

30:02 If that's what you're into, you go girl. Yes. Yeah. So she. Oh, they played Final Fantasy, if that means anything to anyone. But that was their game of joy. It's. In that realm. Yeah, she liked Hello Kitty, she liked shopping on eBay, she loved an eBay bargain and apparently she would like, go and buy shit off eBay, try and then like sell it for more, that kind, you know? Yeah, right. Is a bit of a side hustle. Love that she was into last minute Rd. trips and conspiracy theories. Yes, I loved reading that about it.

30:34 She was into conspiracy theory. Yeah, so cool. So she probably would have been, in some ways, our kind of girl. Yeah, yeah. But you're right when you when you say people said she was very hardline. If she thought something, she was incredibly opinionated. She would not back down. Yeah. But if you were her friend, she had your back. Yeah. She was 100%, you know, all over. All over you. Yeah. Her dad's name was Warren, and that's actually where her name was derived from. So Warina was derived from Warren.

31:03 Yeah. And as you said, her mom was Filipino and her name was Mirza Beth and they were devout 7th Day Adventists. So when they came to New Zealand, when they immigrated to New Zealand, they just went into the 7th Day Adventist community. Basically, they went to the 7th Day Adventist school. And I think her mom ended up becoming like a, is it a pastor in that church? I'm not sure. But she became like a missionary or something within the church. So they were very, she was very sort of devout in that way, but that wasn't really marinas path.

31:41 No, no, she wasn't really into it. Yeah. She was, you know, described as being a really beautiful, naturally beautiful girl. She had big brown eyes and high cheekbones, lots of long hair. And when you look at photos of her online, you can absolutely see that she was, she was very naturally beautiful. She didn't wear a lot of makeup. She was, yeah, just naturally, like a really, really lovely looking, lovely looking girl. Yeah, I dare say that Gable Tosti saw her on Tinder on photos and was like for swipe, whichever direction that is that.

32:14 We'll say yes. Let's swipe the yes. Way the yes way. Well, so because when Marina saw Gabel on on Tinder, she actually immediately said that he looked like and Australia's answer to Sam Winchester. And for those who don't know, he's the guy off of Supernatural. See, my original thought was Taylor Lautner. I've heard that too, and apparently she even says that at some point as well, in case I think you hear it on the the recording that we'll get to. Yeah, that she mentions that as well, so I don't kind of get either, but maybe it's 'cause I know what I know of him that I don't like, see.

32:48 I definitely see the Lautner. I don't see the Sam Winchester, but then maybe in some of his photos on Yeah, he. Might have looked a bit like that, certainly not in later years. He looks like either of those. Yeah. So, but I mean, in photos, this is where I kind of this is where I go the whole like I I can't stand this whole making judgement on people, like from a photo. I get it. Because. Yeah. I mean, there were photos of him that you kind of go as he looked like a young man who was fit, healthy, you know, I guess in some ways a typically what you'd call a good looking bloke.

33:20 Yeah. Inside, you know, like if you're into that. Yeah. Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't look at his photos and go he looks like a weirdo. Some of this smile, some of his smiles, Yeah, but then. We're we're looking at it. That's right. If I remove all of what I know of him, Yeah. I feel like, yeah. If you were swiping away, you'd kind of you'd double look. You'd look OK. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. And yeah. He picked his photos carefully. Yeah. Sorry. I mean, we always put our best foot forward on social media.

33:51 And if you're putting your yeah, yourself out there to get a date, of course you're going to put all the nice photos, the nicest photos you can find of yourself on there. Absolutely. But he he preyed on women. Yeah, through Tinder. So it. Would not just through Tinder, No no. Well, that is true not just through Tinder. So growing up he so his mum, oh let me find their names. So his mum was Helene and his dad Gray and he had a younger brother I believe named Tennyson right now that he grew up in a very sort of upper middle class family.

34:23 His dad owned a flooring company and was it was a very successful company. So they were able to afford a really nice life for themselves and for their children do. Find it really interesting where the family, and I think it's come from, the family have put forward more so that that dad's a salesman. Yeah, because it doesn't sound like they're wealthy. This family were. Wealthy. Oh, they were wealthy. Yeah. And I mean, it's definitely out there. People know that they're wealthy, but I think they try and like, they like to try and make out that they're not.

34:54 It's in for this context. Yeah, because it, it makes them look somehow better. Yeah. Sympathetic. Yes, So that. But they were, they're absolutely wealthy. They live so their mum and dad, their mum and dad now live in a gated community and in this absolutely spectacular, like on a golf links. It is beautiful. Carrara. Yeah. It's West of like the Gold Coast tourist strip kind of thing. Absolutely stunning and a beautiful part of the world to live in. Absolutely. They also had purchased the flat that that Gable lived in, in Surfers Paradise, 14th floor.

35:32 Yeah. In an apartment building. Really lovely. Like, Imagine as a. Well, he was 28 at the time. Yeah, imagine being a 28 year old and having a bachelor pad like that, that you didn't actually have to pay. For but this is the thing, if we like go back to who he was as a person and the family dynamic, Yep, that's just an expectation. I think of like that's what he would live like. Yeah, he did. He attended a private school in the area. Oh. Let's get into some of his escapades at school. Let's, let's and after, just after.

36:03 Just after school, yeah. So when he was at high school, he was making counterfeit ID. It was just after he finished school. Was it just after he finished? Sorry, Yeah. 2003 so we don't actually know his birth date. It's been suppressed what his actual birthday is, Yeah, But we can sort of where things these things are. But yeah. So 2003 after he just finished. School, yeah, so he had and a mate were making fake IDs for schoolies essentially because for those of you who don't know, schoolies is like a spring break type thing in Australia where at the end of year 12:00.

36:36 So at the end of your formal education, you go and you have a week or whatever where you just let loose, Drink, eat, drink, be merry. And the Gold Coast is a place that attracts a lot of schoolies. So a lot of kids who are who are doing that, and a lot of them might not be of age yet. In Australia, you need to be 18 to be able to go clubbing and and drinking. Yeah. And so he founded this, right? Like so he and his mate in I think. Two of them there was 2 mates. And he 02 mates was it? Yeah, but they earned $30,000.

37:10 Yeah, before they got caught within. It was such a short amount of time. Yeah, it was like 3 or 4 months. They was not 30 grand, making these counterfeit IDs that were apparently spot on. So in this like they they were arrested for it, but the judge decided not to have any convictions linked to it. And his words in stating that he said that he hoped that his exceptional artistic talents would be good used for good purposes only from this point forward. But no, I think he had to do a little bit of community.

37:45 Service, that's all he got, but he didn't get any convictions, no. So the other thing that he did also do, which the police were blown away by, was his $50 note that he counterfeit. But he never. Actually, no, he never used it. But like, they were impressed with his skills, even his forfeiting. Like, yeah, yeah, the forfeiting. Oh my God, what did I say? The forging forgery skills. Forgery skills, I mean, yeah, apparently this banknote, this $50 banknote was. Perfect. Yeah, he just hadn't gotten to a point yet where he was able to print it.

38:18 Incredible artistic ability. And as the judge comments, you know, it's like, if if only he could have used that ability and used it for good. Yeah, he's talented. Incredible. Yeah, but he was using it for evil. And he is such an evil piece of shit. All right, so we've kind of given a bit of a background on him now, but a. Little bit further on to that. So with that along with that there was also a a psychiatric report that was done on Gable at the time of this arrest etcetera that had never, he had assessments done prior to this as well.

38:53 So they did a line, but he'd never been fully diagnosed with anything prior to this. But this is where he did receive a diagnosis from this psychiatric report. So in that report, let me just grab out what was actually. So was this the one in 2009? No 2006. OK, so I think in 2006 they they basically diagnosed him with autism spectrum disorder, but Asperger's, which was which was what they were diagnosing at the time. Yes. And severe obsessive compulsive disorder. Yeah. So it was stated in it that he was considered as partially disabled.

39:33 Yeah. Was noted that he had a limited social life or ability to socialise. The psychiatrist noted that he didn't believe him to be psychotic, but was he was not able to connect with other people emotionally put and they put him at a major disadvantage socially. Yeah. And that is true. He didn't have many friends, people he didn't. He was an outcast at school. Aside from I think of these two friends who he was doing the counterfeit. Which, yeah, I don't know what kind of friendship they had as such.

40:04 But that's right, they were. Maybe. Gaining something? Who knows? Yeah, that's it. But he wasn't well liked at school or anything like that. People found him really, really weird. So because he was seeing a psychiatrist after that diagnosis, which to to his credit, I'm glad his parents sort of pushed him to do that and ongoing with seeing this my. Question then, why that wasn't looked at prior to 2006 where he was clearly what in his early 20s by that stage, yes, he. I think he was 19 at that. Yeah, so it's, it blows my mind that he's gone all through schooling and I you couldn't tell me that some educator along the way has not raised with them, that maybe there should be some assessments.

40:49 100% and it's taken him. Because mom was a teacher, yeah. It's taken him a like a court hearing and being arrested and charged, Yeah, for them to go down that path. But at least he think, I think in some ways at least for a couple of years he still saw this psychiatrist. Yeah. Who at the end of seeing him in 2009, because then Tosti decided he didn't want to borrow of it anymore. Yeah, He basically said that it he basically said that he had social anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder and depression in addition to to what he'd previously been diagnosed with, and it was impossible for him to establish a rapport with his peers.

41:30 Yeah. So. But having all said of all of that right now, being ASD, yeah, it doesn't make you like a piece of shit. Like, you know, God, no. I wanted to really look at this really carefully in respect to like what, what similarities and what differences there are to ASD and narcissism personality disorder, like as a actual part personality disorder. Yep. And some interesting things I think to note are that in terms of social skills, someone with autism can have difficulty initiating and maintaining social interactions right due to their neurological difference.

42:09 Yep. However, someone who presents with narcissistic personality disorder may strategically utilize social skills to manipulate or control others. OK. So these are I just want to keep all those things in mind that difference between those two potentially which can be seen as being the same thing on the surface. Yep, Yep. But maybe actually going on underneath is different, right? And he's a. Clever. He's a he's very smart. So his IQ was he He says his IQ was 150. Yeah. I don't, I'm not gonna I I don't know if he's accurate in saying that when he says it because it's he's drunk when he says it.

42:47 Yeah, but I wouldn't be shocked if that if that was the case. He's so. And then in terms of self esteem and the way that might present in terms of someone with autism, this their self esteem can be impacted due to their social challenges. OK right. Yep. But while someone with Gnostic personality disorder has an inflated sense of self importance and a need for constant admiration. Yeah. OK. So that that really resonates with me because he lost his virginity when he was 17. He then didn't have sex again until he was in his.

43:22 What was he, 2425? Yeah. So he and by that stage he needed, he needed that validation. Exactly. From an external source, because so he did lose a lot of weight after school, he got into the gym. He was like, you know, muscle man. He was on these bodybuilding webs, like forums and websites. Oh my God, some of the fucking banter on there is disgusting. But you know what? I actually really thought he would write something about women on there, something really derogatory. 9 times out of 10 someone, another man on that forum, on these bodybuilding forums would call him out.

44:04 For yeah, yeah. And thank fucking God there are men like that out there. I mean, I know there are. Unfortunately, there was more people who wanted his advice on how to also do the same. So, OK, So what you're alluding to now is when he started to get fit and obviously he had this absolutely inflated sense of self and he needed that validation from women. So he decided that he would sleep with 100 women in 12 months. That was his goal. Yeah, because he outright said like that he had low self esteem.

44:33 Yep, and that sleeping with women made him feel better. Yep, literally he wrote that on, on one of these forums, so. And yeah, there were blokes who were like, oh, let us know how you go. Let us know how you go about doing that. Anyway, he does that. He hits his hundredth women and he posts about it and he's like, you know, loving himself sick. We could just have one of the quotes he had on there was Had a 21 year old Tinder date come over for drinks. We're getting along fine, start kissing, feeling each other.

45:03 She's small so I go to hug and lift her up and take her inside from the balcony. But she totally freaks out, Mumbles something about getting back to her parents and bolts out the door. Deletes me off her both Tinder and Facebook. Maybe I acted too abruptly and snapped her out of her little lust. Trans by minute manhandling her. Oh my God, he also, oh God, he's fucking disgusting. He called them all young sluts, sluts, IE sluts. What a fucking tosser. Oh, like there's. And multiple quotes like that on there.

45:35 There's another one where he comments around that he had two he slept with two women last night, one of them being a four out of 10, so not even worth mentioning or. Because normally he doesn't go below A7, he said. He's. Just disgusting the way he speaks about women. His absolute disrespect of women is revolting. He also uses the word frigid a lot and it's just I fucking hate that word. But because they didn't want to sleep with him the first time they met him. Yeah, you know what? They want to get to know you as a person.

46:06 Oh, shock. Or they were creeped out by him because the other thing is. As this girl was, I think that young, yeah. 20 year old you would be. The other thing is, he had actually been banned from most of the most of the nightclubs in Surfers Paradise because he was such a fucking creep that he made all of the other patrons feel so uncomfortable. To the yeah but women had complained about him to to clubs and they banned him like they would agreed with them and had it on camera and what have you that they went Oh yeah yeah no, you're not coming back in here like.

46:35 So he couldn't actually go to a club, thank God. Oh, this is it, yeah. Oh. God, so fucking disgusting. Yeah, so fucking disgusting. Anyway, so he links up with Warina on Tinder on it was a that the day before I think they met up, No. They didn't meet up, they just chatted on. Yeah, but did that, Was that the day before that? I think it wasn't long before, yeah. Yeah, I think it was. So they, yeah, it's not like they've been. Chatting well they might have even as soon as she got almost like arrived in Australia, I think they started talking and then over those few days they were like they were chatting and then they seriously they followed the day before they met up, they said well, let's get.

47:12 Together, OK, I know there were like 180 odd messages between them before they, yeah, actually met up, but they agreed to meet at A at the front of a Tavern in Cavill Avenue. Surfers Paradise and CCTV shows them both sort of meeting up at about 8:45 PM on the night of the 8th of August. Yeah, in 2014. And well, so. Right, So what they had originally planned on doing is going to this beer garden. They go to the beer garden, they're there for like 2 or 3 minutes and they obviously decide to go and get beer and take it back to his apt.

47:50 I don't know if it was busy. I I don't, I don't know. But then they go, yeah, they, they're then seen on CCTV going to a bottle shop and buying a six pack of two. His extra dry. Yeah, like, come on, show her a good time. I could have at least gone a crowning. Oh no, Peter will have you for that, No. He will, but this is like a throwback to my mum. We were out one day and I don't know, the boys had ordered beers or whatever and mum's like, oh, why aren't you getting a Crowny? Nothing better than a Crowny.

48:20 My dad.

48:23 Maybe it's a generational thing on my mum. There's so many benefits. And the crown, the the fancy beer, Yeah. There's nothing better than a Crowny. Well, turns out mom. Yes there is, but there's also worse. So the two is extra dry. 6 Pack goes home with them to to Tosti's 14th floor apartment in Surfers Paradise. Yeah. So with I think they arrived there like 9:00-ish. It's not long. It's like after the first meeting. 15 minutes or something after they first met up that they were in his apartment.

48:52 Yeah. And According to him, they drink the beers, the six beers, and then he has homemade vodka. He's like moonshine. Moonshine essentially. Now, I looked up a little bit about this. So I think you are allowed to still. Did you not do that? No, we used to do it. All, Yeah. Yeah. When I was like, yeah, yeah, we used to always make our own vodka. How? God, I can't remember now. We used to make it a friend's place. She was, she was mad on making her own vodka. And we because we always had it in the freezer at her place whenever we'd go there and she'd make different, like we'd make different combinations of things like to go with it.

49:26 And yeah, we used to do a Skittles 10. Yes, I know we used to put like Redskins in a bottle of Absolute that was delicious back in the day. Oh yeah, yeah, we do those like and yeah, I just like, do different mixtures and things with what you put in it. But yeah, we'd make her own vodka. Not never, I've never done that. But then what happens when you distill vodka is it comes out at 100% alcohol or 200 proof, and you've got to then dilute it to be the right proof. And most vodkas are 40 to 50% or Yeah, what would that be?

49:57 80 to 100 proof? Yeah. But you don't know if you're making moonshine, like, God only knows. You could have it whatever concentration you want. It's worth noting that Gable did have a binge drinking problem. You know, like he seriously had a drinking problem. He he knows it. Even so, he was, he was very used to his moonshine, I guess, that he was making. I questioned that a little bit of how much he drank, but in in comparison to her. But we also should say he was quite a big guy in terms he was 6 foot three, you know, well built not he was, you know, at the time very fit but very muscular.

50:36 Yeah. Yeah. So he was very much into his training and stuff. But she was 5 foot 4 Bailey sort of thing. She was she. Made like 55 kilos or something like she's. Tiny in comparison. She was tiny, yeah. So very different builds in terms of for their drinking, yeah. Of what their their ability to be able to take this and hold their liquor basically, I think would be very different. Yeah. But it was, would have been very strong what he what he had made for sure. Yeah, and she didn't know that. Like she's drinking this moonshine.

51:09 God only knows what concentration it was. And he was pouring them too. I mean, it's his house, I guess that kind of. Makes sense and we and I know they did have shots as well as some as mixers like so there was a bit of both happening and they can individually hit you at different ways. Yeah, yeah. So after having quite a few drinks, they then had sex in his bedroom. Yep. According to him it was consensual and. But I mean, I guess we will never truly know because. From the video from the recording, I would assume that was a consensual act that that one.

51:41 Yeah, the OK. Yeah, OK. I would go with that. Yeah. I mean, the fact that she was still around and having the banter, I suppose. Yeah, that makes sense. We'll say at 1:00 AM they continue drinking and he turns on his phone to record. Now from that recording, the beginning of it, I would say, yeah, they're very much in it that well, it was fun. They were having fun. It was, it was playful. It was. It was but. You could tell she was incredibly inebriated. Yeah, and and just getting more and more so.

52:07 Throughout it, you can hear him pouring her drinks. Yeah, he does make comments about, Oh my God, you're so drunk, do you want something to eat? But then you can also hear drink, like a pouring of a drink on the background. So I'm like, OK, what is it? Yeah, but this recording, so this is a three hour and 19 minute recording and you can find it on YouTube and listen to the entire thing. Very fascinating. Have you listened to the entire thing? Right through I have only because we've had this extra week.

52:34 If we had have recorded this last week, I hadn't listened to the whole thing right? Well. I've listened through a snippet, I've listened to the whole thing right through. Yep. Twice. Yep. Oh, wow. And I've listened to some snippets back again quite a number of times. OK, particular spot where we'll get to. Yeah, it's a Now he did this regularly. Yes. He would turn his phone on to record. This was something he did, apparently, because because he knew he drinks, he drank so much he would forget parts of the evening.

53:03 And so he wanted to. He would, because he would document his escapades on this forum as well as in a diary entry style of like who we slept with, what they like. Yeah. And so he would then use these recordings to go back and remind, remember what happened. I find this really intriguing of that. I mean, it's an OCD potential, yeah thing. I don't know. But it's a little bit voyeuristic. It's it's a bit stalkerish. It's a bit odd, but yes. And he leaves this recording on from 1:00 AM right through, as I said, three hours and 19 minutes long recording the.

53:44 A lot of the recording is there's no one talking. This is it like. It's it's just blank space, which, OK, that's fine, but what? Oh my God. It's really worth noting, though, really important, I think, and I don't think that this was emphasized enough in the trial, that he was the only one who knew the recording was on. Yes, I think Irena had no idea she was being recorded, whereas he was fully conscious that he was being recorded. I think it's also worth noting that OK, that in the recordings you can tell she is wasted, but he seems very coherent and very together and very controlled, very in control.

54:30 Yeah, there is definitely. Look, I'm not. Yeah, as I say, I'm not not saying that he wasn't drunk or that I don't. I don't think they were going one for one. No. You know. Not no. And when you listen to the recordings too, with the way her, I mean in that space of because I say, OK, so at about the 2:00 AM mark and we're saying it starts at 1, at about the 2:00 AM mark is where this horrendous thing occurs. So it's only an hour of recording of her, and in that time you hear her decline in terms of her inebriation.

55:07 Oh yeah. And to me, I question and I could not find a pathology report, toxicology report to find out. I do question. Did he put something else also in her drinks? But I also think if he's feeding this 5 foot 455K it. Could. Just be moonshine that we don't even know how potent that was. Yeah, it could have just been that all catching up with her because in that hour that you're talking about, you can hear drinking throughout that whole time. So, you know, you might have one or two drinks in an hour and feel like a bit light headed, but if you've been drinking all night and then on top of that, you're having concentrated alcohol.

55:50 Yeah. I reckon it might even just be that. I feel it could be. I feel like if there was more to it, I'm sure a toxicology report was done. Yeah. But I'm sure if there was more to it, we would know about it. It would have come out in the trial. It would have well, there was a lot come out in the trial that should have true. So yeah, I, I'm I really I, I would believe both. I could definitely very much be led to say, yeah, absolutely, she just drank a lot more than he did. Yeah. And that he has more tolerance than she does.

56:22 I would say that's. True that. So we could get to it for that point, but I just there's a little question mark over it for me that could there have been something else in her system as well? Yeah, I think that's completely fair. Her blood alcohol concentration at autopsy. Yeah, this is actually really friggin horrible. And just maybe skip ahead 30 seconds if you don't want to hear this, but due to the way she died, there was not enough blood left within her body to do a blood alcohol reading. So they actually had to take vitreous humor from her eye.

56:54 They took samples of her liver in order to determine the fact that her blood alcohol level was somewhere around the .156 mark, so three times over the legal limit. So she, she was inebriated. You've also got to understand that this happened like quite a while later. And although when you die your body stops processing alcohol like it, it would have been somewhere around that, around that level anyway. So she was drunk. Yeah, very much so. All right, so the recording you can listen to is very interesting and you hear like them just, as we said, bantering bit of playfulness and they start sort of fighting, like, but play fighting and like, I don't know, I just kind of listening to it.

57:38 You just really do the whole like, Oh yeah, like it's two youngish people having a bit of a, you know, play and I don't know it. Gets a bit aggressive. Yeah, it it builds though. But this is at 1:35 where Rena says to him. So she accuses him of taking her phone. Well, accuses him. It was in his pocket. Yeah, it was, and it was still in his pocket after the fact as well. Yeah, but she says to him, no. Yeah, she says to him, are you going to my tie me? Because I will fucking destroy your jaw. And then.

58:12 Like. All of a sudden it kind of all comes down again. It kind of goes up and down and. That's the thing, you only get a getting recording. You're not getting any video. There's no context of what is happening visually in that room. You're only going by audio of what is happening and then his word. Oh yeah. So yeah, she did. She does get quite aggressive in, but she's she's lost her phone and her wallet. Yeah. Now that would be quite scary, terrifying as a female in a male's apartment. You can't find your wallet in your phone.

58:46 And maybe. And because there was a couple of occasions where she had mentioned going home. Yeah. And it would sort of, he would, I feel, manipulate the conversation of be like, Oh, yeah, I can walk you home if you want, but how about have another drink like it was, you know, it was redirect. Music or like he'd changed the subject yes. And she was so drunk, she kind of just. Went with it so it sounds like he's doing the right thing of offering to walk her home but then also knows it's. Being recorded, yeah.

59:14 Yeah, so it does, yeah, obviously escalate at this point because yeah, he. And The thing is, he did take her phone and wallet. He did hide it from it. Yeah. So what the fuck was with that exactly? What was that's not even goal in this about in the trial, no. So he's got her phone and her wallet and she's hunting everywhere, trying to find it and going, getting angry and angry. Like where is it? You've stole my money, you know, yelling at him and he's calm as fuck. Which is creepy. During the whole like, well, what are you gonna do?

59:40 Like, oh, well, if you're gonna call the cops, how are you gonna do it? I thought you lost your phone. And then he says to her, Do you want me to call your phone? What's your number? Which? Which he has her number. They've been they've been texting, not communicating through Tinder. They've been texting each other. Yeah. So he had her number. Yeah. He's really fucking with her. Yeah, he. This is the thing and I find and that really, that's where these are the moments where I go. This is an ASD. This is narcissistic.

1:00:02 Yeah. This is manipulating her to feeling like, yeah, oh, look, I'm doing nothing wrong. I'm trying to help you here. Sliding her. Holy girl sliding her with his. Her phone is fucking in his pocket and he knows exactly where it is. But on the recording we don't know that, you know what I mean? Not yet, no. He's way too aware of himself and the situation to be 1. As drunk as her, but also not controlling of the situation. Yeah, yeah. I just finally. I agree, at 2:10 AM there's a struggle. Now this is really difficult to hear when you listen to the audio.

1:00:38 That's something you guys choose to do. It is so incredibly full on. It sounds as though she's actually being suffocated by something. Yeah. And her voice is muffled. She tries to say a couple of things. Her voice is really muffled. Yeah. And then you can quite clearly hear after that her say that hurt my vagina. What the fuck was he doing to her? Yeah. What was he doing to her in that few minutes? Honestly. I really fuck. I think that's the key to it all to be honest. I fully. Agree. I fully fully agree.

1:01:10 I think it's been overlooked at the trial while 100%, yeah, there's, there's more to that moment. Yeah, that has been given credit to in the trial. Yeah, yes. So he sort of laughs that off. We just, I don't know he's. Well, he kind of. No, he does. He goes. Yeah, I don't know. He's just awful. Then she starts playing with these like on his coffee table. Well, again, this is his word. This is his word. He says that she picked up these rocks off of like, obviously, you know, one of those. Ornamentals.

1:01:40 Ornamental things, sort of. Thing and she was piffing them at him but. Oh, he could easily make that up because she's incoherent at this point and he just goes ow, yeah. Ow, what if I could do on that for you hurting me? I could. And then he starts around at once. At one stage he uses these, the words. And I don't know if you've got the exact quote there of the, you know, you're lucky I haven't dragged you out on the balcony and throwing you off my balcony. Yeah, which is just fucking awful. Fucked it's I'll get that direct quote.

1:02:09 In Yeah. But then she calls him Sam Winchester then, which kind of brings him back. It does it kind of like, flips him back into like a more sympathetic tone. Like the way he switches is another thing that really gets me. And he says to her sexually, I'll be your slave.

1:02:34 Then in another second, he goes to a You've worn out. You're welcome. You are not my kind of girl. Yeah, yeah, you have to leave. And she says OK, but she's gasping for breath. Yes. And she? Goes. OK, like it's, it's a real like. Yeah. Desperation or something there's. Something happening in that room that we're unaware of, but he's fully aware of. Like she seems very at this point, she is petrified in my mind. You can hear it in her voice and she I can sense this thing of like, I need to work out how I'm getting out of here.

1:03:10 So the prosecution allege at this point that her face is down on the carpet and that's the muffled, like he's holding her down face down into the rug or next to the coffee table. Yeah. And that's the muffled noise, because that's what's what he's restraining her. And then he calls her fucking insane. You're lucky I haven't chucked you off my balcony, you God damn psycho little bitch. And then she says something that's unintelligible to the recording and she. Says. Can barely speak. She can't speak.

1:03:44 She he goes. What? What? You've got something to say. Yeah, it's really derogatory the way he speaks to her at that point too. Really demeaning like. Yeah, and he's got her face in the fucking rug so she can't say anything. He's he's. Oh my God, yeah. He's restraining her and he's he's he admits that he is restraining her as if like she's some threat to him. Yeah, She's half his size. Yeah. So at this point he claims they were in the room and that the door was the front door of his apartment was further away than the balcony door.

1:04:19 So why that matters, I don't know. Because the front door is where you send someone who you want to leave your apartment. Absolutely right. What he says, he says to her, at this point, you're not going to collect any belongings or anything. You're just going to walk out and I'm going to slam the door on you. You understand? If you, if you try to pull anything, I'll knock you the fuck out. So she she does try to get out at that point. Yeah. There's a gurgling and rasp being sounded in the recording.

1:04:50 And so we don't actually know what she was trying to say. She was trying to say something. The prosecutors allege that Tosti was actually strangling her at this point, or he had her in some kind of hold. So her hyoid bone wasn't damaged and there were no signs of strangulation on autopsy. However, apparently there are certain holds that you can do that don't leave a mark. And that's what they believe he was doing at this point, Yes. And because he had some martial arts training, he had this like a lot of, I mean, he was on all these forums and stuff, they allege that he used this hole, that that wasn't going to leave any marks on her.

1:05:28 He claimed at this point that she was holding and threatening him with a telescope clamp. Yeah. Yeah, OK, cool. You're still also waiting to get bigger. And yeah, and could overpower it, but whatever at 2:19 and. Why did she feel the need to have a weapon at that point? Oh, well, exactly. I mean, I think to me it's undeniable. The fact that she was being restrained and feeling threatened and feeling threatened, she needed to, yeah, have something to defend herself with. Yeah. At 2:19 there are sounds that they think we think the balcony door opening.

1:06:06 Yeah. Oh no, the balcony door was already open so you don't hear it opening. Oh, yes, sorry, Yeah, yes. Yeah, you can hear her being it being it closing but but. In the preceding that sorry, yeah, you actually, she screams the word no 31 times. Please, if you don't do anything else just to hear the desperation in this poor girl's voice, listen to this bit. It's horrific. It's horrific because she's like, she's desperate and it's, it's, it's almost animalistic the way she's screaming. It's uncontrollable.

1:06:38 She's like, she's desperate. Desperate. Absolutely. Just frightened. Terrified. And interestingly, A neighbor reports that a similar no, no no was heard by her at least about a month prior to this of the exact same, you know, level of threat. Yep, sorry. Yep, that's exactly right. So the commotion and the noise. So now that what we think has happened, I guess, or what's been reported to have happened is that Tosti removes her to the balcony and he clocks her out there. He closes the balcony door.

1:07:23 On the click. Yes, you can. So I guess the recording proves that he was inside when she was out on the balcony. You can actually also hear now, this is absolutely horrific, but you can hear her scream as she falls off the balcony to her death. Yeah. Which 25 seconds after that scream, you hear him ring his lawyer. His lawyer, Not triple. O Nope. Not the not an ambulance, not the police, not desperate for help. He doesn't even go out and check. Nope, you don't hear the door open again to the balcony.

1:08:03 He doesn't go out there and look because in his words that would highlight where she came from and that it would look bad for him and that he might have pushed. Her. Yep, he says. If he if someone had have seen him on the balcony, they would have assumed he'd pushed her. Yep, and he so he had the forethought to think that in that moment of like a holy shit, she's gone over the edge and then ring ring his and ring his lawyer who didn't answer. And this is all on the recording as. Well, Yep, he's still got the recording.

1:08:38 Still got the recording Hours after this. Yep, a bit over an hour and a bit after this. What he does next is incredibly interesting. Very. Now none of this, from this point onwards, none of this was admissible in court. So none of this was heard in the trial. And I really think that this goes back to that potentially that comment around that hurts my vagina because, and I think this is where the if the jury heard what happened here, the the outcome could have been different. I I agree with you so hard.

1:09:10 And the reason it wasn't allowed in is because the judge deemed it prejudicial. And you know what? Because that would make him guilty. Yeah, funny that. All right, let's let's talk about it and tell everyone what actually happened after this. So he rings his lawyer, who doesn't answer. He then you can hear in the recording a little. Well, I can't remember which comes first. I've got it all you. Can hear him putting his pants on. Yep. So you can hear him help. Doing those things, but you'll also hear a spinning and that spin.

1:09:39 Many people have played this recording, have done it themselves at home of like played that sound to see if it matches and it checks out in terms of who he was as a person too. That a dumbbell has like an end on it that holds the the weight onto it. And it's that sound of one of those coming off and suddenly being put down. He is then seen exiting his apartment with an item in his hand that looks like a dumbbell rod, like it's a long metal thing in his hand. Yep. He walks out of his apartment, goes down, and you can hear the Ding of the elevator arriving.

1:10:14 He weirdly does something and you can hear it all. In the recording of life, we think he must leave his door open or wait or press the button of the of the elevator which must been right near his door. I think it was. He's pressed the button of the of the elevator and then instead of waiting in the hallway, he's waited inside his apartment for the the elevator to arrive because you hear the door close of his apartment after the Ding of the elevator arriving. So he's left his door open. It did have some sort of auto close function on it too.

1:10:44 So he's he's waited inside rather than waiting out in the hallway, which again, sounds really SUS. Totally. And then, so he gets into the and then you can see him on the CCTV as he's come down through the elevator again carrying that item. He then wanders around the streets. He calls his dad. I believe it's before he calls his dad. You hear him dispose of whatever that was in his hand and you hear the clunk of it. Like where he put it. Nobody knows. We don't know. He's not on CCTV at the point of like that of the recording, but he disposes of this metal thing.

1:11:20 You can hear it clear as day drop where it was in a bin or something, don't know, but he's definitely disposed of it at that point because he didn't have it on him later. As far as we're aware, he calls his dad. Well, first of all, he gets a slice. Of no, that's after Oh no no, he got the pizza for pizza. First he does. He goes to some pizza shop that's open on Cavill Ave., gets a slice of Supreme Pizza. Sits down and calls his dad. Yep, I think I could be in trouble here, Dad. At this point, swarming around the the bottom of the apartment block are police officers, ambulances, gathering people.

1:11:57 Because So just to go back a little bit, yeah. I mean, no, I mean, that's totally all relevant. But there were three eyewitnesses to Werena's death. Yeah. So the first was Nick Casey. So he was two floors below Tosti's apartment and visiting his friend Emily. She was. They were both hairdressers. And the other person was directly below Tosti's apartment. Her name was Gabrielle Collier Widener, and she's the one who heard someone a few months earlier saying no, no, no, no, no as well out on the balcony in the same panicked sort of tone.

1:12:34 They hear all of this banging and yelling and that that causes them to come out onto their balcony to find out what is actually going on. And when they look up, they see Wright standing on a concrete ledge on the wrong side of the balconies. Glass balustrade and Nick says that he remembers right, saying she just wanted to go home and he said you've got to get over the other side. You can't get. Out this. Way and but she kind of like turns to twist around to then face the Bella straight so she was facing out at that point she goes to twist around to.

1:13:12 In her sober world, she was quite athletic, you know, have ability to climb things and stuff like that. But I mean in a drunken but there was no way they knew that. There was no way she could get where she was trying to get to by coming over that way. That's right. But in sheer panic, desperation, She wanted to get out of there, however. However she could, I think yes. But in the turning around of that, she's then let go of the balustrade and they actually see her fall to her death. Like, so Nick actually was interviewed by a New Zealand newspaper a few years later and he said, I think he's studying.

1:13:48 Like, no, actually, this might have been Gabrielle. Actually, she said that she could have reached out and touched her. That's how close it was. Yeah. But she still can see the wide eyed panic and desperation in her face as she felt. You would never forget that. No way. That's with you for life. It's Oh my God, it is absolutely with you for life. So they're the ones who call 000? Yes. And both, both, both of them do. And obviously that prompts ambulance police firies to come. And they are, as Gable says to his dad's, swarming the building because a woman has fallen to her death.

1:14:27 Well, the. What did he expect? Yeah. The coroner's report stated that her body had practically, well, not practically, it had folded itself in half. She'd lost all of her blood volume on impact, so you can imagine the scene, it would have been horrific, absolutely horrific. The only thing of that is that I bloody hope then she just didn't feel any of it. Oh, it would have been instant. Yeah, it would have. Been that is the instant only redeeming, if anything, of that. Yeah. Oh God, a terrible, terrible way to go.

1:15:01 Horrific. But yes. So we're back to Gable Tosti sitting there having his pizza, recording himself call his dad. And that conversation on the phone gets me with his dad on both sides. So his comment to his dad is yet, oh, I think I might be in a bit of trouble here. And he starts explaining to his dad the night that he had this girl over, we would just play fighting. And she's gone off the balcony. Now, Dad's reaction on the phone is basically, oh, have you called? Called Miss? Mr. Potts, the lawyer?

1:15:36 Oh, yeah, he's not answering. Like, you know, not not Is she? Is she OK? Is she? OK. Have you called Triple O he? Has to he immediately defends himself of like, you know, Oh no, I had nothing to do with it like I didn't push her or anything it's like I I just blows my mind the conversation between the two of. Them I know because like I'm in. And how about have you called Triple O, mate? Yeah, why are you calling me? Triple O, I'll be there in a SEC. Yeah. Oh wait, you're not there. Fucking get back.

1:16:03 Then where are you? Where are you, You know, kind of stuff. He's like, he's just like, I mean, I get it. It's 2:00 AM and 2:30 AM in the morning, like kind of stuff. He's getting a phone call. He'll be a bit, you know what? What? But I think that it's sober and wake you up pretty bloody quickly once you hear that a girl has gone over the balcony from his apartment and you'd be like, whoa, mate, what is going? Where are you? Like, what's going on? It wasn't that kind of panic state. It was like, okay, well, I'll come and get you.

1:16:30 Yeah. And but hang on what? I'll come and get you and bring you home. Not not take you to this. You should be. I would have been like, go over to the police, talk to them, tell them. Was in my exactly. If you are actually innocent and you think you've got nothing to do with this, why the fuck a did you not call triple O straight away and B why have you fled the scene? Why have you disposed of something? Yep. Why? Why all of it? Why all of it? All of his? Why have you gone and eaten a fucking slice of pizza?

1:16:57 You. Oh, he's hungry. She's hungry. Oh, I. Just can't. So obviously, because as you said before, he had her purse and her mobile phone in his pocket. So the police were actually unable to. Identify what actually pissed me off the most, like in that in that moment of like, you're not even going over there and identifying who this person is and saying I know who she is. She's fallen from my apartment. Yes, like that shows more innocence than walking away going oh, I don't want to be involved because like they might think I did this.

1:17:27 For sure. Like. 100%. Oh, I just just can't. So anyway, his dad picks him up, takes him home, and it's not until the next day that he goes and does turns himself into the police, to which his lawyer, I mean, at that point, I mean, yeah, get a lawyer, whatever, as you should. We always say lawyer up. But so his lawyer directs him to make no comment. So he literally from that point to trial makes no comment to the police. So they put their case together entirely without any statement from him. Again, if you were innocent, wouldn't you tell them what happened that night?

1:18:08 They do produce very quickly the recording his his defense fully believe from the get go that that recording will prove his innocence because the door lock is heard prior to her falling. However, that is not how the law works. So he they, the police were able to charge him with murder, potentially manslaughter. So the trial was based around the fact of was it murder or manslaughter or neither? Because did he his actions create an environment where she plummeted to her death due to his intimidation and his behaviour?

1:18:53 Yes, yes, yes, 100% no. I think, I think the see to me, the recording shows that he's called. I I really do. I don't know how. I don't know how you would think otherwise, although I I understand. Yes, he did not push her. There are theories that people have put out, like I'm talking Reddit threads and that kind of thing. But people are like, well, maybe when he physically manhandled her out onto the balcony, did he place her on the other side of the balustrade? We don't, we don't know. Nobody saw that, no.

1:19:26 And so then. Her. Seat and to climb back over. Did she fall? That's right, we don't. We don't actually know. We don't know that mechanism. What we know and what wasn't presented at trial is what he did after, which I think shows that he's he's guilty. Like something happened. Person would have called 000, rushed down those fight 14 flights of stairs or whatever as quickly as they possibly could. They would have given the police every every assistance, every piece of information from the night that they could.

1:20:01 Yeah. I I just. So the, the, the wording in this is that was he responsible for her death? And I fucking believe he was. Yeah. He was the one who fed all that alcohol. Yeah. He was the one who put her on the balcony. Terrified. Yep. And knowing she was obviously she was very dazed and confused. I mean, if he had of just suffocated her slash strangled her, she was possibly like oxygen deprived. We don't actually know. Yeah, what the I don't know. I, I just, I can't believe that the way that this was presented in court was allowed, to be honest, I think, I think the jury would have, I mean, the fact that they heard all of the recordings up until the point where the balcony door locked.

1:20:48 Basically they, and I mean you can actually then hear her scream as she falls as well if if you listen carefully enough, which is. Absolutely horrific. I did have to listen quite a few times to get that I didn't hear it straight up. Same and he claims he didn't. Hear it again, but. He would have looked out and seen that she wasn't there. Like to me, that's not an excuse. Yeah, he claims he doesn't hear that, but hang on. Wait, why did you call the lawyer? Exactly 35 seconds or 2525 seconds later.

1:21:14 Like seriously, fuck off. Oh God, you knew what had happened. Yeah, this is it. He or he did, and I really then go back to OK, right, he's left that apartment with this very unusual piece of weaponry potentially in his hand. What was that used for and why is he having to dispose of it exactly? Now in an autopsy of her, as we said, had horrendous her body had been impacted by this and not saying that he would have known that that's what would happen at the end of it all, but what did he do with that implement?

1:21:50 And there's a statement from her saying that hurt my vagina.

1:21:55 Did she did something happen with those two things to equate her feeling very much because it gets escalated very quickly after that of did he do something to her that made her go this is I got to get out of here. This isn't OK. And that's where it's ramped up. And and she did fear for her, for her life then. I think my personal theory is, and this is just what I think, but I think that is exactly what happened. He's used that weapon in the perpetration of some kind of sexual act potentially, and he's needed to dispose of that because it would have contained the DNA and evidence.

1:22:37 And then that would have been been able to show that there was a reason for her to. Be, that's right, a reason for her to be. Scared and want to get out of there? He was able to think so clearly and concisely in that moment. Just makes me feel like a lot of this was either he's done it before and he's, you know, and Yep, we've got eyewitnesses who say they've heard or, you know, auditory witnesses who've who've said that they've heard similar sounds coming from his apartment in the past. We know he has swindled at least a.

1:23:07 Well, what was it by this point, 128 or something moving into sleeping with him. Yeah, he is an absolute piece of shit. So there's another bit of evidence that I don't know if you call it evidence, but something else that was held from the withheld from the jury and they didn't know about was that. So there was a long time between this occurring and the trial happening in 2016, right? So 2. Years, a long time part. Of the reason of that was that he had not too long after this occurrence with Wirina, he had been Oh no, it might have been before it actually it was.

1:23:42 It was before. It was before he had been leaving Splendour in the grass yes, and had a high speed chase with the police across the NSW border. And after they finally did actually capture him by using spikes on the road to slow to get him to slow down to capture get get to him, he refused A breathalyzer and a blood sample. Eventually they got a a reading off of him of .2. Yep. So I mean, this is I mean he must have been absolutely off his nut because that's much light later after the fact that I finally got that out of him that he refused it for so long.

1:24:25 So his reading was probably even higher when they first he was when he was in that. Vehicle. Oh yeah, for sure. So from that incident, he then actually was given six months in in jail, Yeah. So that he did that sentence between. Yeah. Between the the Warina case and having his trial, yeah. So that was not admissible in court and I can understand the lawyer arguing that to do with it. However, it does paint a picture of who this douchebag is. Have you seen the OR heard the footage from that from?

1:24:58 Oh, no. So of course he was recording it because he recorded fucking everything. Yeah, but in it he goes, he says to the police officer. So yeah, as you said, he's been pulled over. He was going 195 kilometres now. What a fucking toll. Well. Maybe if he'd killed. Himself. Oh, if only he said he said to the police officer, all this is being recorded and the police officer goes recorded. Is it? God you're a Dick head. And nail on head. And the and the he says to the police officer, well what are you arresting me for?

1:25:28 I think police officer goes for being a Dick head. If only that was a charge. Well-being, a Dick head and driving at 200 kilometers an hour. Yeah. And being four times the legal limit, yeah. Maybe that just thinking. Just maybe. Yeah. Well, so anyway, obviously the the jury did have an issue at trying to come in to come to a conclusion on this. It took them after a six day trial, it took them four days to come up with a verdict. And they had so many questions. Yeah, they came back after six hours and they had like a whole list of questions.

1:26:01 They then had to go and talk about that for longer and. Yeah, which I think led the prosecute, the defence. Sorry to believe that. Oh, God, he's gonna get it, you know, get caught here. Gonna be done here. Yeah. So there was an incident where one of the jurors actually posted onto social media a picture of a coffee cup and like out the front of the, you know, Supreme Court kind of stuff saying, oh, another day on jury duty. I've got a tough one turned out, you know, yeah, she's one of the jurors from, you know, his trial.

1:26:28 I think she actually named it. I think she did too, which So the defence then wanted to have a mistrial based on that because the jury aren't allowed to talk about them being on the case that I think the judges credit. I don't think that equal to mistrial. And he did say no, no, no, we're going with this. We're going to let them go, keep going because she didn't say anything about the actual case in terms of like discussing it. So, you know, yes, it was not right, but it's toe line, toe over the line stuff, not not as bad as it could have been.

1:26:59 And when it's escaped enough of to warrant a mistrial. So they did push forward, but then unfortunately the jury then came back after four days with a not guilty verdict for both murder and manslaughter. I, I, I don't know how that that came about. I do think they were obviously, I think I. Think we need, as you said, to put this in context of what they heard because they didn't hear the full. Story This is it. And probably, to be honest with you, I've given this a lot of thought over the last week.

1:27:32 Yeah, I I do feel like they, given that if we only knew what they were told, I can kind of see that that the bar was too high. That that screen that no no no gets me every. Time I've listened, that's why I'm thinking like it surprises me that there wasn't a manslaughter charge. I do understand the murder charge because yes, he didn't actually physically push her, yes, but. I do think he's. Responsible. I do think he's responsible. So I fully think he should have received at least a manslaughter charge.

1:28:05 Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. And we'll never know why the jury made the decision that they did but that but they. Did look his family again, very wealthy, had very good lawyers, no question. Yeah, again, this come of the Earth, but he, he had very good lawyers who did a very good job of painting a picture that he wasn't responsible for this, I think. Yeah, unfortunately the judge didn't allow things into the trial that should have been. And I understand, you know, the fact that he ate pizza and wandered around for like nearly, you know, for an hour and a half afterwards before I think that element of after the fact not being included, I could have come out, but the fact that there was more evidence of him disposing of something.

1:28:49 Yes. Was overlooked and should have been included. Yeah, even the fact that he didn't seek attention for her, seek medical help or yeah, anything. Like the fact that he called his lawyer the 1st. Yeah, exactly, exactly 25 seconds later, like I think that shows such culpability like. If he drank his dad 1st and then a lawyer, I could have come at that easier, you know what I mean? Like but to ring the lawyer first. Yeah, I just all of it just does not sit right. He. Literally had a lawyer on speed dial because he's always in trouble.

1:29:21 This was not the first time he was in trouble. This was not the first time that he'd been called out for being a Dick with women. There was a pattern here, well and truly, of behaviour that was Red Flag City. 100%. And it doesn't just stop there, because this man, obviously not being convicted of this, continues to walk the streets and behave atrociously. So he was so you, as you said, he did not give any statement to the police, right. So this put him in really great stead for 60 minutes to offer him 250,000 Australian dollars for an exclusive interview.

1:30:03 Which of course he was like huh fucking AI don't know how. Anyway, yeah, that's that's that is what it is. I don't know if it did him any justice though. It didn't. I mean, they were. So they did their job. The was the of the Yeah. And he's good a. Journalist. He's. All been a he's could have been a Dick. But he also, he wasn't gonna let him off. No. But. And OK, it didn't pay him in a great light, but what difference did that make to him? No, like people already knew. That what had happened, double jeopardy.

1:30:32 He could have literally sat there and went, yeah, yeah, it was my fault and it wouldn't have got anything. So yeah, he could speak freely at that point without any consequence. He used all of his behaviour. He took zero responsibility. He could have taken responsibility and been like, yeah, look, I probably shouldn't have given her that much to drink, or maybe I should have walked her home. When things started to escalate, there was nothing, nothing. No, he made excuses for all of his behaviour.

1:30:57 When he was asked about how many women he'd slept with, he's like, Oh yeah, men, men of my age have slept with that many women. That's not abnormal. Well, that's not unusual. Like it's fucking really unusual, yeah. That's and the way you talk about it is what's more unusual. Yeah. Like there's one thing of like, if that's I don't know what you do or, you know, Yeah. But the other thing, other way, like it's the way he spoke about women generally speaking, was what's really gross. I don't care what your number is.

1:31:26 No, like that's such an irrelevant thing. It's the fact of how you speak about those people that you've, you know, had those sorts of relationships with. Yeah. Well, you know, you call them relationships, relations. Yeah. He just, he was, he had a very poor opinion of women, women in general, which to me equates to someone who is dangerous to women. Absolutely. He he doesn't respect them, to have to care for them enough to not have them be hurt or injured. Yeah, because he continues to this day to get into trouble.

1:31:58 So he's he's now legally changed his name. Yeah, so Eric, Eric Thomas, Thomas so and 20 I think, I can't remember what it was, 22, I think he was coming. He came to Melbourne for something, for some reason. He was in Melbourne and there's a Facebook group that outed him on there saying that if he's in Melbourne women and he's, he's, he is gay Tosti. He's known as Eric Thomas on Tinder and all these sorts of things. So don't date him. Like don't go out with him. He's this, he, this is who he is. He tried to sue them for it, but that that didn't, didn't fly because he's, he's well known in areas for doing awful things.

1:32:38 So he's been banned. There's a number of brothels around the Gold Coast area who have banned him because he's beaten up women like that. Yes, he's paying them for sex. He's certainly not paying them to be able to beat them up. So they have had to ban him from multiple brothels. He's also, he was, oh God, I've got to find the quote of this. This is disgrace. He was actually pulled over again for speeding and and driving under the influence and found to be driving naked in 2019. And his statement by the from the police when they asked him, he crashed the car and when they pulled him out of the car, not wearing anything, he said they they asked him why he wasn't wearing any clothes and he goes, oh, I was just in that state.

1:33:20 You know what? What? Sorry, what state? What? What state? Not, not not usually. Do you get Like, what's the state that creates you to be naked in your car driving? How gross. He's got butt juice all over his car seats too. Yuck. So at that he was like only given 12 months probation for that and fined 350. Dollars. This is the thing now? What the fuck? Yeah, he like all of this other shit that he's done too. Does that not count for anything? No. Like fucking put this joker in jail. He's going to kill someone else.

1:33:54 He will. He will, he will with his reckless behaviour. Yeah. He could not give a fuck about anyone else or the consequences of his actions. No. So the biggest one he's had any kind of consequences too, though? Yeah, is the most recent in that in 2022, he was at the Grand Hotel in Broadbeach, which is operated by the casino, right? So he was found in a hotel room on top of a woman who was laying on her back with her dress and skirt up around her hips, right? And he was hitting her. How did? He was fighting her, who found her security.

1:34:33 They came to a rescue, right, and got him off. Like, did they hear her? Yeah, yeah. So they dragged him off him and everything, right. He was choking her too, by the way. Yeah. So they pulled him off and they banned him from the casino, right. And that and because they're they're a group, he was banned from all their their venues, I believe. So good fucking well, yeah. But then he being a Dick, so requested for that ban to be removed because it was. It was. What did he say? Sorry he was. It was discriminate.

1:35:05 They were discriminating against him for being a man. Oh fuck off. Real men don't choke women. No. Well, so I love that the fact that the a judge in this, I don't think it's a judge for the civil court sort of stuff like I don't know who the magistrate, yeah, who they basically turned to him and said no, the ban is staying in place because your claim of gender bias is not here. This is called domestic violence. And they most certainly can ban you for domestic violence in their venues. It is there is no relevance whatsoever of your gender claims.

1:35:42 So thankfully that one stood but. He's clearly he'll just find someone. Else this is it. He's an absolute pest and criminal. Yeah. He will kill someone else I reckon. I really, I just feel we will hear of him again. I, I, well, listen to this, right. So there's a, an article in, I think it's like the New Zealand advertiser or something, and where Rena's dad, it's the one and only time he's ever spoken about the case to this reporter. And he says in it he says please charge him with the right thing, false imprisonment resulting in death.

1:36:20 I don't know what the charge is in Australia, but that is 100% what he's guilty of. That and being an arrogant son of a bitch, but I guess there's no crime against that. But then at the end he says, he says, I know we haven't seen the last of him. That is the nature of the beast. And he's right. We haven't seen the last of him. I think. I think her dad is on the money. We haven't seen the last of this story. Like he hasn't learned anything from this experience. Because he's not ASD. He's fucking narcissistic personality disorder.

1:36:53 Yep, he's it's. I honestly don't feel that that ASD covers who he is. Maybe there is ASD there as well. Yep, not saying that that's not a possibility. Yep, because he does have certain traits of like the artistic ability and the intelligence level, all these other sorts of things. But there is a narcissistic streak in this person. Both things can be true and. Both of those things can be true, absolutely. Because he is an absolute sack of shit. And he will. He's he has injured women. He's made women feel incredibly uncomfortable prior to this as well at nightclubs being banned for that.

1:37:28 His alcoholism and drinking and driving is putting people in danger. There are so many elements of this man that he should be locked away, or at at very least he should be in therapies, well and truly getting support and help for whatever is going on for him. From what I can gather, since 2009, he's had no psychological intervention. There's well, certainly there's nothing reported. Whether he is or isn't, I don't know for sure, but from what I can see, it's it's stopped at 2009. So that's five years before this incident took place and far too long ago for it to have any effect now, especially if he was medicated back then.

1:38:08 I don't know. But I, I just think he's dangerous. I think women need to be aware that he's out there and he's on Tinder again. He should be fucking banned from all of this. Like he shouldn't be allowed there. There was a ban while he was awaiting trial that he wasn't allowed to be on Tinder or any any. Well, he wasn't allowed on social media, but he was social. Media, Yeah. So he, he just doesn't give a shit. Oh. That was the other thing that I've I've found more recently. Yeah. So what he he oh gosh.

1:38:38 Now where am I? So, yeah. So he was banned from using Tinder, right. And being on social media, which he heavenly heavily was still going as onto his forums and claiming his his innocence. And he used the name GT when he was on those forums when he wasn't supposed to be. Yeah, it was clearly him. Like GT, you think he could have come up with something a little more anonymous, but OK. But even then, so this Eric Thomas though person who's been who boast boasted about having sex with 260 women. Just recently he was boasting these things again on none other than a page called Blokes Advice.

1:39:19 Now if you've heard of this page before, there's some amazing people out there highlighting how toxic and disgusting this is. These guys have a podcast as well. And sometimes men shouldn't have microphones. They are atrocious. Absolute toxic masculinity. So this blokes advice pages supposedly, you know, to help men's mental health, it does the complete opposite because guess what they promote? Oh, blokes need to have a beer with each other, you know, cope with these things. Now that will send me off the edge.

1:39:54 Alcohol is part of the problem. So they're, they're so not equipped to actually support people's mental health. Yeah. And so, and surprise, surprise, Eric Thomas or Gable Tosti, whatever you want to call him, is well and truly in on that page. So that's where he's getting his mental health advice. He fits the fuck me. Doesn't he like, you know, that his opinion of women? Oh yeah, his, just the way his mannerisms, the way he goes about things, it doesn't surprise me that he's on. A pitch like that?

1:40:28 Not at all. But God, we need to do better. I don't know how we do, how we fix these things. I don't know. The legal system doesn't help us. No, no, because it was certainly what I think. What I see in this is that it was coercive control in terms of how she was being manipulated in that room. Agreed. And so there are laws around that now. And no, in 2016 there weren't. And I wonder whether it would have been looked at differently today, even even though it's not in huge amount of time. But a lot has been changed in that time.

1:41:03 Yeah, there has been things put in place and I would I would hope that we would see this differently now. Yeah. I don't really hope we're learning slowly. Yeah, yeah. I, I look, I would hope so too. I would hope that there'd be a different lens cast upon it, knowing that as time goes on, we know more and when you know more, you can do better. But then I I also understand that the law, while progress has been made, it still probably hasn't fully caught up to the point where you know, where, for example, this entire story could have been told to the jury.

1:41:36 And you know what I think would be the right outcome could have could have come to the fore. But it just, I don't know, I think there's so there's a lot of gaps and there's a lot more room for us to to be better and do better in this in this space. Yep, Yep. Absolute piece of shit. And I'm actually done talking about him now. I've had enough. No, I know I can't agree. I think it's. Worth ending this episode with Werena's family, you know in mind because they are now having to live the rest of their lives without their daughter and their sister and I can't even imagine how hurtful that would be and.

1:42:16 Especially just getting an outcome, you know, that's right. Someone having being held accountable, it just makes it even another layer of shit with this. It's awful. Yeah, when he is responsible. Yeah, so. We're thinking of them. Yep. We're thinking of them for. Sure, Yeah, where are you now? Most well and truly did not deserve this to occur. She was an incredible young woman and this was just absolutely an outcome of an evening out where she should have been that started that started that recording where there's a bit of fun and banter stuff.

1:42:49 If the the night had ended there for everyone it would have been amazing. Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep. I think we're done. I think we're done. Yeah, we could go on and like the incredulity of it all could see us through. But anyway, have you looked up to see what we're doing next week? Actually, Actually I did. Play around with oh, it's childers. Oh, the backpacker fire. Yeah. Oh, this, this is a this is actually a really fascinating. Yeah, I'm intrigued. I remember obviously occurring, but I actually don't feel like I know a lot about it.

1:43:24 Yeah, so we're sort of back into Outback ish. Australia too, yeah. Going back to the Outback, Yeah, yeah. All right, backpackers. Yeah. OK, well join us next week for that one and please keep your case suggestions coming. We love it. We're constantly adding things in there. And as I said at the start of this episode, please have a look in the show notes below and check us out on Patreon if that's something you feel like you might like to do to support us. You can still buy us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com/two Crime Besties.

1:43:57 Contact us on the socials, or if you'd like to send us an e-mail, it is TWO [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you. Love anyway you wanna communicate with us all? Great. We love it. Keep it coming. Stay curious. Crime besties. Bye.