Episode 44 - Uvalde, Texas Elementary School Shooting

0:15 Welcome back to Crumb Besties to what is the third of our US school shooting series. If you haven't listened to the 1st 2GO back. Last week we released 2 episodes so you can go back and listen to our Columbine episode and our Sandy Hook Elementary episode. Today we are going to be talking about the Uvalde school shootings. So elementary school shootings at Rob Elementary School in Texas, Evaldi, Texas. So before we get into it, Meg, what have you been up to? What's been going on? Where are you at?

0:48 Where am I at living living life yeah, we're oh God, it's just mental, the everything that goes on. I think in a week we're still recovering from busy school holidays Yeah. And then coming back into the routine and the new routine, which is just, as we said, another episode, like, is killing me. Yeah. But my, my parents are away at the moment and we're about to go away and not I like, I'm like, I'm losing my security blanket. Yeah. Great grandparents are the greatest. Grandparents are the best. Although I did helpful grandparents.

1:24 Funny story, I went we're going around there the other day. Like on the way from school. We had to go there before we do our after school stuff. And Brody says to me, my youngest, and he goes, oh, is grandpa gonna be there? I go. Well, yeah, yeah. Leave. His house and he goes.

1:39 Oh, is he gonna call me a turd again?

1:43 Probably. Probably. Let's face it. Term of endearment, right? He loves you. He loves you just the way you are. He. Does that's his? It's his. It's his affection style. Yeah. Love language. Yeah. I was known as poo for most of my my childhood.

2:01 Oh, that's seriously. Was that what your dad would call you? Yeah, my dad. My dad used to call me Lola because. So he'd like, my name's obviously I'm Emma, and he'd call me so that. And then he'd call me Emmy Lolita. I don't know why. Oh, OK. And then so Emmy Lolita went to Lola. Yeah. I love it. I love it. They let the names that parents give for their get for their kids. Like, yeah, like my niece has always been Bean. Like Taylor Bean. OK, where that's even come? From but like. It's just is that like France's bean?

2:32 Don't I? Oh yeah. Yeah, Kurt Cobain's daughter. Yeah. Yeah, no, she wouldn't even know who that is. But sorry, Tea. I always call it tea. But but yeah, no, she's always been like Bean. Like her dad calls me that and I love it. Cute. I love it. I love it. Yes, but because like, my Brody's got 10,000 the names, yeah, that he gets. So because he gets Frosty, because he was IVF and in the freezer for two years, he's always known as Frosty. But yeah, like there's lots of little ones that he gets. Mason not so much.

3:03 He's always just Mason. Like kind of. Thing he gets buddy No no, he gets Bubba and like and so then Brody hangs shit on him about that. Oh yeah, of course. So. That makes me call him Bubba more. Yeah, obviously. Yesterday Lucas had an appointment and at the appointment the the person was saying to him, oh, what would you like me to call you? And he'd had, he's had appointments with this, with this woman before. And in at the start he was like, I like being called Lukey. And so Lukey it was. And then she came out yesterday and she's like, oh, so we've had a bit of a name change and I'm like, Oh yeah, right.

3:38 What is it? And she's like, he's decided he wants to be called JJ. And I'm like, oh, and we do, we do sometimes call him Lukey J because his middle name is John, right? And so we do call him Lukey J. Or that that was actually my sister-in-law, who actually calls him that all the time. And so now he's just decided he'd like to be JJ, right? So she's like, we're going with it until we have another change. So there you go. He's just made-up a a new nickname for himself. For himself. Love that. Love a good nickname.

4:06 Yeah, like there's some good ones. Yeah, my eldest Oliver, he's his. His is great. Yeah, he's not fully. I mean, he does like it, but he hasn't fully embraced it yet. But I feel like as he, I feel like as he gets older, he's gonna love it. Yeah. So he's in the back is. He that on the back of his. No, I tried to get it but no, he ended up going with. That's. Right. Owls, I think, yeah, right. So we, he is a busy boy. He has, he's active, Yep, very busy. He's got lots going on and he's into everything, like into absolutely everything.

4:39 And things just happened to him. Oh, you might, some might say slightly accident prone. Anyway, so when he was little, we used to call him all of a sudden because he'd just always be there like all of a sudden something would happen. So he called him all of a sudden and then that got shortened down to suds. So now it's just suds. Love, I love. All of a sudden it just suits. Him. It really does, doesn't it? Yeah. So yeah, love a bit of a nickname and I love, as you said, those like in in your family, how those things just become, yeah, what they are.

5:11 Yeah, and then like half the time you don't even know where they started. No sort of stuff. I I think they're the. Best. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, very good. Yeah, like my, my other niece, my brother calls her cheesy and I heard someone the other day kind of go like, why do you call her cheesy? Like, and he's like, and he kind of kind of gave a few different reasons. I think he's kind of gone. I can't really remember. I can't really. Remember which one was the right one or whatever. Like it's yeah.

5:35 But she's just, it's just cheesy. Life's cheesy. And they're like, oh. I love it. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cute. Very cute. What's so cute? What are we going to be talking about today? Sorry. No. So 3rd, as I mentioned at the start of the episode, third of three for now. Yeah, about US school shootings and today's one again, I think I alluded to this in our last episode. My goodness, it was mishandled right from the get go. And it what what ended up happening was that more people probably died than needed to.

6:09 There was such inaction, such miscoordination of what needed to happen. And you know, for all of the things that should have been learnt, for all of the school shootings that have come before it, it seems that none of that actually came to fruition in this instance. And it's, it's actually horrifying the fact that you know what's being learnt every time this happens, what this proves nothing, nothing's been learnt. They're putting in more and more measures, but nothing stops these things from happening because.

6:39 The one thing that needs to happen doesn't happen. That's it. Oh, gun control. What now? That. Yeah, Fifth Amendment, right. That's it. I mean, this, this perpetrator, similarly to the, the three that we've spoken about previously, he had some issues. He had stuff going on and he it wasn't dealt with again and he wasn't, he wasn't doing the things that he needed to do and the therapies that he needed to do and attending, you know, the supports that he needed in place. He was living with his grandparents, I believe at the time.

7:16 I think he came from quite a fractured home life, a very sort of tumultuous home life from what I was ever. Drug user didn't find a whole lot up about. Dad, I don't think he knew his dad. I feel like maybe his dad left before he was born. I think, yeah. I don't think his dad was involved in his life. He was definitely raised by his grandparents. Yeah. And you know what? Your grandparents, your grandparent for a reason they're not necessarily equipped to deal with. You know, there's so much that changes generation to generation.

7:47 And also a grandparent. That's a very different relationship. They're not your parents. We're only having this conversation today with some friends of mine about the fact of like, oh God, to have had the my mum be a mum as as she is, as a grandparent, would have been a whole different childhood. It wouldn't have been amazing. She really nice. Yeah. I I'd take my mum as a grandma any day. Get so much stuff that I would never have been. I know as a kid, like she indulges them because because she's allowed to.

8:13 She's a grandparent. Hi mum, she listens. Hi to my mum too, Pat and Lynn you know. I love it, I love it. But you know, that's, that's, as you said, that's the way grandparents should be. That's their role. Their role isn't to parent the child. No, it's to grandparent the child. And that's a very different thing. So when a grandparent then has to take on that responsibility of becoming the primary caregiver for their grandchild, I, I think it would be really hard. Not only are you probably 20-30, forty years older than what you were.

8:46 Yeah, when you did it with your own, you did it with your own. Much changes in that time. And also I feel like grandparents don't necessarily have the same authority as a parent figure necessarily. And would you even have the energy? I don't have the energy now. Hats off entirely to those that take it. Sure, because it is. I mean, look, there's a different point your life where, I mean, you look forward to that retirement and that different lifestyle and, you know, yeah, spoiling A grandchild potentially or and then you end up raising that next generation.

9:15 That's got to be huge. It's a huge thing to take on and there's so many that do do it really, really well. Like, I mean, we're not saying that every, you know, grandparent that raises their their children's children end up doing shit. Oh God, no. That is far from it. Because there's definitely very, very, very good grandparents out there for doing this and who take this stuff on and, you know, but unfortunately it, it can go pear shaped. Yeah. This one did, yeah. I mean again, it's from multitude of factors and reasons.

9:44 Absolutely. Not just so much at play. Yeah. I mean, there's, I mean, the reason why a grandparent takes on, you know, children. There's so many reasons before that. And this one, you know, sounds like it was. Yeah. It was because he had had such a hard life at home with parents prior and they've taken him in, which then comes with a whole lot of trauma itself. Absolutely so. Yeah, yeah. So this all started with sorry, sorry. It started on the 24th of May in 2020. Oh my God, 2022. I just had a total like what?

10:18 What year was it? I thought 2020 2 written down, but I just had a God was it? Yeah, yeah. At 11:33 AM the perpetrator entered the school, but there was a fair bit leading up to that that will just very quickly go through. Yeah, at about 11:10 on that morning. So the perpetrators name was Salvador Ramos. He was 18 years old at the time. At around 11:10 that morning, he shot his grandmother. He then texted his he was friends online, friends with his girl in Germany, and he texted her and said to her that he'd just shot and killed his grandmother and he was headed to attack a school.

10:55 Well, actually sent her like 1 message saying I'm going to shoot her and then sent another saying I have just shot her. Yeah. Which because later on, she was charged with not in Germany, not in in America, she was charged with not letting police authorities know that there was potentially an issue with someone shooting people. Yeah. Yeah. So Ramos then takes his grandmother's truck and drives towards Rob Elementary School. Now, I believe he did have a connection with the school. He attended that school in elementary when he was in elementary school, so the US.

11:32 Attended for grade for 4th grade. Yep. So in the US, elementary school goes from kindergarten to grade four and then they move into middle school. So a little bit different from the Australian and New Zealand school systems, but that's, that gives you a bit of an idea of how young the students were who were involved in all of this. He then crashes his grandmother's truck into a ditch near the school. You can see CCTV footage of this from the school of it happening. It's really odd. Apparently he's never driven before.

12:02 He didn't have a license. He hadn't driven. No. But even the way that this all happens, it's so bizarre. I mean, yeah, you can tell he's not experienced. There's something going on there, but he just kind of like pulls into a ditch and crashes into a ditch and then he gets out of the car like a little bewildered. And what actually happened was a teacher actually saw this happen and she was like, Oh my God. Like someones crashed their car. So she's then gone out to sort of see what's going on and to call 911 because she's like, this person could be injured and he was far enough away that she couldn't get to him.

12:37 Like it was, I don't know, a few 100 multiple hundreds of meters away. So she saw this happen, didn't know who was driving or couldn't see that particular level of detail. But this person probably needs help. She couldn't necessarily leave. Because she was in classroom. Classroom and whatever, but she's gone out the door to sort of see oh, OK, call 911, give them the information that they need. Yeah. She then goes back in through that door and pulls it shut. You can see that on CCTV. This comes up again and again.

13:05 If you watch any documentaries about Uvalde, this comes up again and again. She shut the door. She did the right thing. This is not her fault. Yes. OK. I'm just gonna leave that. That. Yeah. Yep. So then the. Way. Apparently the doors should lock on close. Yes. So they will be open. From internally. That's right. So what should happen is, as the doors close from outside, nobody should be able to open those doors. Yeah, that didn't happen when this teacher closed the door. And that is? Malfunctioning.

13:39 Yeah. And these doors had only been apparently installed, like, super recently, like, I think weeks before. Yeah. So obviously something hadn't been installed properly. OK, these things happen, but unfortunately this weakness in that process, in that, you know, is what the perpetrator, what Ramis used to gain access to the school. But again, he had weapons. He. Had weapons he could have gotten in like this was just an opportunistic way to get in without having to shoot windows and whatnot. Yeah.

14:10 So at 11:31, he initiates the gunfire outside of the school so people can hear that there's gunshots. And I, I believe because of the gun that he was using, it was very clear that these were gunshots and it was close. Was it a shotgun that he had or something was? It I've I do have it written down somewhere in my notes if I get to it. All I know he had an AR15. Oh, that's right. Yes. So of course, yeah, now I know that's a serious gun. I don't know much about gun, but I know that that's a serious.

14:39 Gun. That's one that you don't just, you know, have at home. Well, no, you wouldn't think so.

14:48 So when he was shooting from outside, he I think he was just kind of like, like, you know, shooting across the windows and, and he was breaking windows at this time. A So somebody called 911 when they 1st at 11:30 when they first heard these gunshots outside.

15:13 There was a school district officer at the school and he, so I think he was actually coming to visit the school. Anyway. There is an interview with him online where he kind of outlines what he what he says and does. But even that's a bit sketchy. But this guy says he drives past. Yeah. And he thinks the gunman is a teacher. Yeah, there's a teacher and he thinks, oh, that's the gunman. Yeah. Whereas but the gunman like walks right past him and he doesn't and he doesn't see realized, realize that that's the government.

15:47 So he's. Mistakenly. Identifying a different person. A teacher as the gunman anyway. So this just kind of starts the confusion of everything. Yeah. So Ramos has entered through that W entrance door. He walks through the hallway and shoots into two different classrooms that have a door in between them. Yeah. Yeah, they're interconnecting. Yeah, he enters and enters in one side, goes through to the that interconnected classroom and then comes out the other side. He fired 100 rounds of ammunition over 4 minutes in those two classrooms.

16:24 Well, he, he, he set off 164 rounds in total in the whole time he was there. So that the majority of it obviously is in those two classrooms. And now and I don't when you say around, well, I think it's that's, that's not a bullet like as in like that's not 164 bullets. There's a whole lot more bullets to that. Like it can be like 3030. Rounds around, yes, I think it's something like that. I don't know exactly, but I don't think it like he has. He had so much ammunition. He had a bag of ammunition.

16:51 And that's another element of this, like the gun control stuff that I cannot understand. And I think we talked about this when we talked about Port Arthur, yeah, as well of like how much ammunition does one person need in a for a recreational purpose or for, you know, for what guns are meant to be for? I understand having a well, I don't understand entirely, but let's just, you know, go, go with it. That, you know, you've got a gun for protection in your house. You'll you'll need bullets for that gun.

17:13 I understand that. But you don't need thousands. Hundreds or thousands, he. Literally had like 1400 rounds. Oh, like that? Would have been heavy too, but he had them in a like a duffel type bag. Yeah. Absolutely boys, mind that like people just should not be able to purchase that kind of level of amount of ammunition. Yeah. To me, it's like a like a like, you know, there's limits on how much, you know, drugs you can have for recreational purposes. That's it exactly. I feel like it's got to have those sorts of limits on it as well of how much you can purchase.

17:44 It's yes, it becomes no longer recreational. Absolutely. Surely. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I don't know AR15 how that's anyway. Yeah, yeah, same. But surely so 1135 three Uvalde Police Department officers enter the school through that same door. So it only took them a few minutes to get there. After that 911 call 2 of the again, you can see all of this in CCTV. It is actually quite fascinating to watch because it's and it's been heavily, heavily criticized by everyone involved because The thing is, police officers now are trained to deal with active shooter situations.

18:26 And that is exactly what this was. But they did not follow any of the processes or procedures or the training that they have supposedly extensively done in order to minimize any fallout from this. So what actually happened was these these three police officers have entered. Two of them get grazed by bullets. So one on the shoulder and I think one on the ear grazes his ear. They then retreat because their Sergeant tells them to. They then fuck off. They then fuck off. Like just leave entirely. Four more, four more upon this happening, obviously they're like officers wounded.

19:07 Four more Ivaldi police officers do come into the building, right? But they do not follow any of their processes or procedures to take down that gunman. He was in the hallway at the time. Oh my God. Yeah, that's right. They were told they were there and they had a perfectly good shot, but they had a shot told like, you know, no, no, we're waiting for authority. And no one was saying, yeah, take the shot. So the the problem was this, this police chief who was one of the three who first went in there, Yeah, he told them to retreat.

19:40 And and the gunman was in the hallway with no other students around. Like what? You know they they weren't. But there were multiple like. Acting the way they should. There were multiple, like, divisions of like, not just police like as in like. So there's the, you've already Consolidated Independent School District Police Department. Yeah. Then there's the United States Border Patrol Tactical Unit. Yeah. Then there was the, you know, the local Police Department. Like to me they just seem to be too many cooks.

20:10 Well, the the problem is nobody knew who had authority, who was actually in charge. They all blamed each other, but nobody took the the lead in this and didn't know who had jurisdiction. I mean to me. It seems like, you know, OK, that, you know, they've gone overboard almost in terms of how much security measures they're going to put in place. Yeah, to the point where they didn't know of all these different parts of pieces of this puzzle of like, who actually controls all of it when it happens that they're all kind of like standing back going like, you know, we've got a job to do, we're here, tell us what to do.

20:46 And like, no, no, no, you tell us what to do. Oh no. You. You. There was a lot, a lot of confusion. It just blows my mind that the, again, it comes down to they've put bucket loads of money into this, like, you know, into these security measures in these schools. It to the point where there is an actual Police Department for schools. Yeah. Like, I mean that, that, I mean, you know how much gossip that goes around our school that if a police car drives past. The school. It has nothing to do with anyone at the school.

21:21 Let alone there being an actual Police Department that is solely developed for schools like that seems insane. The amount of money that goes and there was 6 police officers in that department that were assigned to that and church. I think, I think maybe 8 schools. I think it was like that seems insane, doesn't it? There's there's, there's all this money being put into it, but then it what what they're trained and what this there for comes and happens like fuck it up. Like honestly. What the hell?

21:53 9 minutes after the gunman enters Sorry. 10 minutes after the gunman enters the school, the school posts on Facebook that the school is under lockdown and then emails. Parents buddy post on Facebook. Also, there's an active shooter. Rob Elementary is under lockdown status. Rob Elementary parents please know at this time Rob Elementary is under a lockdown status due to gunshots in the area. So not even gunshots at our school. The students and staff are safe in the building. The building is secure in a lockdown status.

22:22 Your cooperation is needed at this time by not visiting the campus. As soon as the lockdown status is lifted, you will be notified. Thank you for your cooperation. Imagine as a parent receiving that. Sorry. Well, it prompted 11 parents to basically go down there. Yep. Now we're now 11:45 AM. Twelve minutes since the gunman has entered the school. No action. He is still at large, loose within the building. Yeah, he was in the building for an hour and 14 minutes. I mean, you compare that to like, well, who we spoke about last week, you know that he it was a it was 5 minutes and like, yes, he caused a lot of damage in those 5 minutes, but 5 minutes and this and it was ended like we're an hour and 14 minutes.

23:05 Fuck. As well. I mean, that's why this is just an unfathomable, unfathomable amount of people and children died I. Mean the trauma of those people in that room, that building for an hour and 14 minutes to be trapped going What the hell? And not knowing what's going on. I think it was this. I'm pretty sure it was a baldy. I read somewhere where like there was students and teachers who were trapped in a room for four hours. Yes, because they didn't. Well, we'll get to this in a minute, but they did not clear the building for that long and they missed some places.

23:36 What they didn't, they couldn't find that that the one where they were trapped for four hours, it was because they couldn't actually find the key to that classroom. No one had the key. And then so they ended up having to call in a janitor. Who, the overnight janitor or something. Someone had to get him so they could get the key to open that classroom. Wouldn't you fucking knock the door down? Wouldn't you? I don't know, break a window? Yeah. So bizarre. The, the things that happened in this are just really fucking bizarre.

24:04 Oh. No. At 11:56 AM, people were starting to post stuff on Facebook themselves because they were starting to get really, really frustrated. I'm talking parents who are now attending the site. Could you imagine? They were getting really frustrated and the police were doing nothing. They were all standing outside and you can see this, the, the parents were taking videos and posting them on Facebook. The the they're strolling around like it's a friggin Sunday afternoon picnic and. Your kids in there like it's that's.

24:30 Awful. It's horrific. It's absolutely horrific. At nearly 12:00, a police officer pushes a man who's making a phone call outside of the school. And this was then posted on Facebook as well. And that actually prompted a lot more parents to come. So I think this person posted on the school's Facebook page and this bloke was saying to the police officer there are 6 year old children in there, like is somebody get in there and do something? Yeah, he's like, turn that off, you know, turn that camera off, blah, blah.

25:02 Oh no. They don't know how to defend themselves from a from a shooter and Oh my God, just absolutely horrible, horrible stuff. Yeah. Well, I mean it was the investigation afterwards there was a a quote from the Texas House of Representatives that there of the committee that investigated all who said systemic failures and egregious poor and decision making is what caused the the eventual number of deaths. Yes, that Rob Elementary. Who just shot him when they got in there 6 minutes or whatever, after whatever it was after they, you know, when those first three Uvalde police officers, why didn't they fucking shoot him there?

25:41 There's one particular teacher I read about where he was. He'd been shot and was bleeding extensively. And they were, they put on the window like that. He needed help so that they could get someone in to do that. And they just decided like that they wouldn't let paramedics in. Yeah. And they stopped him, stopped getting in there. So they did everything they could, the people in the room to help him. And it turned out that they didn't. The police officers were there. They moved him to another room so they could potentially get paramedics there easier.

26:11 And then by the time paramedics finally got in there, they pronounced him dead on the scene. But if they had got him in the original spot, he would have survived. He would have survived. It was blood loss. Literally he died from blood loss. Yeah, and that but could have been very much saved if people if the paramedics been allowed to get in sooner. Yeah, around, I think it was around 12 o'clock 911 got a phone call from a girl, a little girl. She ended up then calling back, I think it was three times over the course of the next hour or so.

26:44 She had a mobile phone because she used to walk home from school on her own, right. And I think she was in the 4th grade. And her dad was interviewed in a documentary I watched about this. And he said listening to these 911 calls that she made are just horrifying. Yeah. So she's whispering down the phone going, we really need help. You can, you can hear. You can listen to the modem. And. Stuff, they've been released. She's like, we really need help this because she was in one of those rooms that we were talking about that would join together that had the 100 rounds of bullets in.

27:15 So she would have been surrounded by death. Yeah. And injury. And she's like, we really need help. There's lots of people here who are really unwell. And she's a six year old little girl. Yeah. She was on the phone originally to 911 for like nearly 2 minutes that first time. And then somehow the phone got disconnected. They, the 911 operator reported all of the details that she'd given because they were asking her things like how many people are in the room that you're in? Do you know what room number you're in?

27:45 Do you know what your teacher's name is and all of this stuff. And the 911 operator was relaying this all to whoever, you know, on the scene. They were doing nothing with it. No, that's what we're saying with the last one. You know, having that information from the inside helped them to be able to manage that quicker, whereas this one, they were getting just as much, if not more information from the inside of what was happening and they didn't act on any of it. Yeah, there's so many images from this that really stick in my mind.

28:11 And yeah, one of those is, I think at about 12 or 7. So about half an hour after the gunman entered the building, the first lot of people were able to escape. So there was a group of people, students and teachers who had gathered in the cafeteria, and they obviously found an opportunity to escape. And I know one of the images that really sticks in my mind is of these little girls running out of the out of there, terrified. And you can see police officers just like standing around outside. Oh, it's it's.

28:49 It's mind. Blowing. Mind boggling? Absolutely God. So 12:10 the student, that little girl in room 112, she calls back again and she said there are so many people in this room that are dead. I don't know what to do. Can somebody please help me, little girl? The they then try the police officers then try to, I don't know, organize something. The schools across the road from a Funeral Home and they decide to send all of the parents over there and anybody who escapes is going to be sent over there first for first aid and and treatment.

29:25 So they sent the ambulances over there and all parents, but that even went to shit because, you know, a few minutes later they decide that it's not big enough or they don't have the facilities there, and then they move it to somewhere else. And then they move it to somewhere else again later on. It's sort of like as a parent, you couldn't even imagine it. 12:15 That same student calls 911 for the third time, basically saying, I don't understand why nobody's helping us. There's nobody in here, we are that you need to come and help.

29:59 Like, imagine how desperate you would be. You know, I, I can't imagine. I actually can't imagine. Oh, this is 40 odd minutes. That's awful. That she's been in that situation and you've got to remember they were the first. This was the first classroom. He went into 40 odd minutes. Ago. Yeah. Not to have anyone helping you and like such young children, yeah, that's insane. Absolutely insane. That student reports that there are 8 to 9 people alive in that room, and they need to get there now because they're not going to be alive for much.

30:32 Longer I'm like, this is the thing. It's a young girl who potentially the And I think I believe the teacher in that room had been shot. Yeah, you know, this is young children then managing. An adult war zone? Well, yeah. Like literally an adult could barely. This is it. I can't imagine as an adult in that when, you know, if I'm the teacher in that room, that's like my job to look after all that, you know, kind of thing. And that the teacher's not there. This is a young student that's doing it. And like, trying to like, yeah, make sure her friends, her friends stay alive.

30:59 Yep. Oh God. Unbelievable. So the members of the Border Patrol tactical unit arrive at this point with Shields. Don't go in. Don't go in immediately the tactical response. Chat Have a chat, see what I. Will do. Don't go straight in. So at this point, what are we like 45 minutes in to the terror at 12:17, the school district now posts on Facebook that there's an active shooter in the school. But please everybody stay away. Your cooperation is needed at this time by not visiting the campus. As soon as more information is gathered, it will be shared.

31:37 The rest of the district is under secure status. The they are getting 911 calls coming from within the school still from other students, people who've able been able to now access like landline phones and that kind of thing. They're getting reports of how many people are injured, how many people are dead, how many people need immediate assistance. This still doesn't prompt them to go in. Kidding. No, 12:20, there's more gunfire. So it kind of paused for a couple of minutes there. I'm assuming he was like reloading his gun.

32:15 I don't even know how that happens in an AI field. Like whether that takes time or not, I'm not sure. But there was a little bit of a pause there where there weren't any gunshots. So they were like, well, is it over? What's going on? Still didn't go in. And then, yeah, they've got these. The shots sort of started again. This is around the 50 minute mark of of when that all happened. Yeah, OK, so students are trying to still get out and students and teachers are still trying to get out and escape where they possibly can.

32:53 There it's again, the scene is chaos, which it would be. It absolutely would be. But, you know, this is where we're, this is where we're at. The students are now being taken to an auditorium at the high school on the other side of town. So the parents are notified again via Facebook that, you know, it's not at the Funeral Home across the road anymore. You're now going to have to go over to the other side of town. They're trying to keep separation there. You will be notified to pick up your students once they're all accounted for.

33:22 So I just that's, that's flaws me. Obviously I would have coordinate like transport of these kids like to move them to somewhere else, et cetera. However, they can't coordinate themselves to fucking get in there and stop this occurring. Look, I I think it's worth saying there were police in the building that were just hiding. They were doing that. They were. Doing like though, because there was no one or thought that no authority saying to them shaking down yeah. Like, but isn't that like So what?

33:46 So in, in this though, I've listened to, I listened to a podcast about Uvalde and it was with a security bloke, right? And he was saying that in an active shooter situation, regardless of whether it's whether it's at a football stadium, at a school, at a house, wherever, if there's an active shooter situation, you shoot to kill the perpetrator. That is that there's no, there's no do I don't I about it. That is what you do. If somebody is actively shooting people, you have the authority as a police officer, Yeah, to shoot, to kill that person.

34:32 Apparently, they're. What they were told is that, yeah, time is the number one enemy in an active shooter response. The best hope that innocent victims have is that officers immediately move into action to isolate, distract or neutralize the threat, even if that means one officer acting alone. Yeah, the materials. Sorry. And the first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field. Yeah. So they're, you know, they're trained to be, to put themselves in that harm's way to protect the other innocent children because I'm they're innocent children.

35:10 They're not even, you know, adults at these, these are schools and such young children at these schools. They are the priority in those moments. Just, you know, we've got to stop this. But they weren't doing that. So they weren't following through with their training. No, not at all. It's just you can't believe that, that you know, after all of this, there's been no lessons learnt. I, I don't know, after everything that had come, I. Think the lesson that's been learnt is that active shooters are fucking scary and not even as grown adults do we want to be around it.

35:44 These poor children are having to deal with it. Change of fucking gun laws change. Like really there is no no other answer to this. I mean again, this guy again was another one who was whack job, you know, like had some pretty serious mental health issues. He he was known for putting up videos online of him abusing and killing animals. He would live stream them on this. I've never heard of this ubo. Yeah, Ubo, yeah. But he would live stream him doing this abuse to animals. So I mean, people knew that.

36:20 I mean, that's tick box 1, you know? Of red flag. Hello. Yeah. He's what's to come a little bit. So he also was threatening to kidnap and rape girls using the same apps and using that ubo. So there was lots going on with that. He he also at work where he was working at Wendy's, I think it was yeah, one of his Co workers. He was incredibly rude to the female Co workers and in particular was sending inappropriate messages to one one of those Co workers. So people knew that he was not quite right, but no one was stepping in with him.

37:01 And but yet he could go and buy guns because he had these guns legally. Yeah, he went. He was 18 and he went and had to abort them. At 18 get an AR15. This is the thing exactly. Like, like an assault. Without any question around your mental health, yeah, you can just go go yourself an AR15. I mean, they're handy, yeah, for daily use. Yeah, yeah, totally. Like, what the hell? What? The. Hell. So we're now sort of down to 1240, eight. 12:50 PM. And the one of the police captains who's on on site, who's now sort of he has started to take charge.

37:42 His name's Joel Bettencourt. He actually gives a command to wait. So the SWAT team or the special, the people with the Shields are ready to go in and he tells them to wait. He said the team that's going to make the breach needs to stand by. The team that's going to make the breach needs to stand by. Why the fuck are we standing by? They are armed. They have protection, as much protection as they can get. They are trained to do this. But he didn't fucking like give the command to go like honestly.

38:18 Just insane. Anyway, the Border Patrol officers are the ones who actually ended up gaining access. They enter the classroom, they pass by the the other police officers, the school district police officers. And they shot and killed Ramos in the process of that. So it did all come to an end at about 12:50 PM. Yeah. Way longer than it needed to. Oh. So, so, so much longer than it needed to. Yeah, so this one is ranked #3 in the US, including, so 22 killed and 18 injured. His grandmother that he shot before he went to do the shooting at the, at the school.

39:03 She ended up surviving. She she actually was shot to the in the face and she made her way to her neighbors who got her help and she so this is the other part of it. There was already at that point where he hadn't even made it to the school yet. There was a nine on one call going through saying that her son, her grandson had shot her that no one was then even already alerted to like, hey, we need to be there is already an active shooter in terms of like that. He's already shot one person. He has a weapon, he's on the move.

39:36 That wasn't even a trigger of, like, putting in things place in place of, like, looking for this person immediately. So, yeah. So she got the help she needed and she survived. So unbelievable. Yeah. Absolutely unbelievable. Yeah. All right, I'm going to read out the names of the students and teachers who were killed. We had Nevaeh, Alyssa B10 Jacqueline Jalen Kazares 9. McKenna Lee Elrod 10. Jose Manuel Flores Junior, 10. Eliana Amaya Garcia, 9. Uzziah Sergio Garcia, 10. Amory Joe Garza 10. Javier James Lopez 10.

40:21 Jace Carmelo Luivanos 10. Tess Marie Marta 10. Miranda GAIL Mathis 11. Alethia Haven Ramirez 10. Annabelle Guadalupe Rodriguez 10. Maite Juliana Rodriguez, 10, Alexandria Ania Rubio, 10, Layla Marie Salazar, 11, Jayla Nicole Silgiero, 10, Eliana Cruz Torres, 10, Rogelio Fernandez Torres, 10 and the teachers were Erma Linda Garcia, who was 48, and Eva Mareles, who was 44. Now, just before the shooting took place, there was a, an assembly and a lot of the parents of the Grade 4 students had attended the assembly because a lot of their, a lot of their kids were getting awards for different things and for just good global citizenship.

41:24 It was all these things about being a good person and things that they'd done over their years at elementary school that, you know, they could be really proud of. They were very close to the end of their elementary school life. Yep. And one of the dads was whose daughter did die during this. He she received an award and he took a photo of her and her five friends, all of whom passed away. And it was the last known photo obviously taken of them. And it was a mere, you know, less than an hour before they died.

41:56 And he said, you know, she was so happy they were they loved being together, you know, as as girls in grade 4. Do they love their friends and and they loved school? And you know, as we've said in the last two episodes as well about all of this, you know, you want your kids to go to school and feel safe and have these amazing experiences that school affords us. But that was robbed for all of the students at this school, not just those who passed away. This is it. I mean, it's young children. There's so much potential, you know, you don't know, you know, who was amongst them of what they were going to be and who they were going to grow into.

42:36 And yeah, the potential that's been lost is awful. The families would be broken. Yeah. Awful. Yeah, horrible. Absolutely. Can't even imagine. Oh, thank God we live in Australia. Yeah. For sure, for sure. Oh well, this was a heavy little series. We've done well, I think, to knock this out. But yeah, some I think so, yeah. It's been heavy. Yeah, it has been heavy because you can't help but put yourself in that situation. We've got kids who are these ages to the thought of even, Oh my God, I can't imagine what these parents, Oh no.

43:15 And teachers and support staff from the school, what they would all be going through in in the aftermath of this. And it would be with you forever. These these things would never go away. I mean, I have to say when we do regular, you know, lockdown practices and stuff in schools and, and every single time we do that because I've, you know, with the younger children, you get asked why do we do that? And particularly the lockdown ones I find interesting because you know the it's. Not a fire, it's.

43:41 Fire, you know you can do it. And they say, well, why do we do this? And, and I love here in Australia that I struggle to be able to answer that question, not because I'm scared of like scaring them, but literally struggle to know why would we do it? Like we just don't have reasons for it. And the biggest one that we as teachers always use, it's like, oh, it's in case there's a dog in the, in the, in the playground and things that, you know, that's unsafe. So we need to keep you all in until we can.

44:04 Yeah, like a feral animal or something. Like, or a snake. Yeah, that can happen in Australia quite regularly that, you know, we might bring you all in because there's a snake in the yard. Yeah, it like it doesn't. It's never entered my head that, you know, it's someone with a weapon like an AR15 that we would need to be locking down for our kids. So interesting story when Oliver was in. I feel like he must have been in prep. Our school did go into lockdown. Yeah, that was a situation at another.

44:32 School at another school. That's right. That's probably the closest to her needing a lockdown. But they just literally played. He was great. Yeah, just played. Games. Just played games in the classroom, didn't know any different and I asked him. So we obviously got notified that that had happened. As parents, yeah. And I asked him that day, I'm like, oh, did anything happen at school today? And he's like, not yeah, yeah. I'm like, OK, cool. We'll just leave it at that then. I know my staff are asking me, like, what What do we do?

44:54 Like, because we've got such young kids, like, you know, yeah, they need to go to the toilet, like. And I said, well, let them go. Like, because we've got bathrooms, you know, joining to the classrooms and you can see them. And so I said, oh, let them go. Just don't tell them to flush. Yeah. Like, whereas because we're not talking about locking down for a gunman. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, we're changing tact a little bit in a bit of a different way for our next episode.

45:23 So for those of you who know the Teachers Pet podcast, yeah, which was, Oh my God, I was listening to that back when it was actually available. I mean, it's available again now, but I was listening to that week on week. Lucas was a baby. So I know it was in 2017 that it came out and I was like feeding him in the middle of the night and listening to the Teachers Pet Soothing. Soothing for the middle of the night. Totally. So we're going. To be having said that, the dulcet tones of Hedley Thomas will help you in that situation I think too it's.

45:57 Got quite the soothing, yeah, soothing voice. So, yeah, we're going to be talking about Lynette Sims next week and the case of the Teacher's Pet and everything that goes with it. So we're gonna bring you A2 parter about that one. Yeah. There's so much to unpack. All that sort of stuff, yeah. We'll go over all that. Yeah, there's a lot. Oh, there's. So much. I mean, have you started researching for that? Same. I'm like, I'm like, I've done a lot and I'm like, I'm still not doing, not even the trials.

46:23 Yeah, same. Same. All right, we've got a lot to do in the next week. Yeah, All right, let's get to it. But first of all, let's go down and have a nice weekend away. Wine. Wine. All right. Thank you for joining us, everybody. Stay curious, crying besties. I'm taking that back because I'm saying instead of Emma like she had before. So. Oh. Yeah, fair. Yeah. Hi everyone.