Episode 23 - Aaron Hernandez

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties. We're on episode 23 this week. Welcome, Emma. Thanks, Meg. It's so exciting. I know I say that every week, but I just, this is my favorite part of my week. I love it. Somebody. Somebody. Said to you, yeah, yeah. When someone said to you this week, I don't know how you fit it all in. And you're like, then you take on a podcast and it's like, no, no, that's my, that's my fun time. Yeah, this is This is my my hobby, I guess. Yeah, same for you. Yeah, definitely. I love it.

0:42 It's a highlight of my week. Love doing it, yeah, And love researching it. And yeah, this is always fun. We get to the end and we're like, oh, we actually do know things, so. Yeah, this is it. I'm like today as I've had a bit of a week trying to get the research in for this. I sort of mentioned this this to you that I had other priorities this week. And you know what? As you're off cider in this podcasting gig, I fully supported your ultimate priorities. My priority was very important because I've got one of those stupid bloody Telstra box things that's expiring to what expired today like it's done.

1:16 It does not, will not work this morning, which is the only device. I have another device to watch stuff through, but that was the only device I would be able to watch Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, OH. Now, guys, guys, if you're not into the Real House Live Housewives franchise, what's wrong with you? Oh, well, firstly, yeah. But I, I was always a die hard Beverly Hills die hard. And then one of our friends said to me, you have to watch Salt Lake City. And I was like, Oh yeah, all right, I am obsessed.

1:50 It is. So good. Well, now I am too. I love it. I mean, I've been putting it off and putting it off every time you've told me get into it, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know that. And I think I did attempt season 1 like 3 or 4 times and I was. Like I might have as well. No, I don't get it. Like I'm not not vibing. I don't know whether it was, I don't know whether it was the the Mormon Wives one that kind of got me going. Maybe I do need to check out? Salt Lake City because if this. Is a bit of the vibe of what goes on in Salt Lake City, then maybe I'll like that, that series.

2:18 So I think that really pushed me over the edge of trying it. Yes, I think I pushed past Season 1 and. Holy yeah, from season 2 it gets really good. So if you if you're time pressed, start at season 2 and you won't. Yeah, you won't miss anything. No, no, absolutely. But then don't miss a thing from that point. On Yeah. So you're up to the start of Season 5 now. Yeah, yeah, I've watched all the way through and like literally last night I finished Season 4, which is, and now my machine's dead, so I can't watch anymore until I can work out how to get whatever, whatever streaming service I can get Season 5 on.

2:52 Will be your next investor. My next investor yeah, because the there's the my current device for whatever reason does not support the services that have yeah, OK on it other other housewives ones Yep 100%, but not that ones, which is really annoying. So it must be. It's a whole other thing to work out. The Mormon church or something, I don't know. The Mormon God striking down upon you? Well, yeah, probably. But yeah, so that's really distracted me this week from my typical time of researching for this stuff.

3:19 I have been helpful ever watching. Really. Yeah. Well, you had a deadline. I understand deadlines. Yeah. So I'm glad you got it done. Well done. Hats off to you. And hats off to you for also being able to research in the process. Well. We'll see how we go. We'll see how much I the. Team, I reckon, I reckon you'll know more than you think. You know, as we always, as we tend to do. Yeah. This one was a really interesting one to research, wasn't it? There's so many different angles. So you'll you guys will know from the episode title that we're talking about Aaron Hernandez today.

3:49 Before we get into it, though, I do have a shout out for today. Yes. My shout out is to Sky now. Sky is like, we don't know Sky in our personal lives. No, she has bought us a coffee if you guys wanna. Actually, she's bought us 2 coffees, 1 each. So thank you, Sky. Sky, she has sent us these beautiful emails and messages. She's commented on our episodes and like, I think she might be a bit of a fan. And we really, really appreciate that. I mean, I feel like there's the obligation of people who have to listen to us, who we see every day and we're like, oh, you listen to our podcast and like, yeah, that's great episode.

4:27 But it's like, I feel, I feel like it's such a like a feather in our cap when somebody unknown to us listens to us on a regular basis. And we've had a few people reach out over the over the time to let us know that they're loving it. But thank you so much, Sky. Yes. Thank you very much. Much appreciated. Yeah. All right. Are we ready to get into today's episode? I think it's going to be a long 1, so I think we should probably get going. We apologize now if we jump around a little bit I guess, but.

4:55 The timeline on this is really complex, yes. And we look, this is, you know, we try and keep our episodes to, I don't know, an hour and a half if they've been lately. Actually, we're going. To do 20 minute episodes. Emma, I remember I was here. We barely even get through chatting before we start in 20 minutes. But there is a lot of information about this case, as there are about most of the cases that we've done so far. So if you want more information about something that we've maybe only touched on or you want more detail about something, you can go and do research.

5:29 There is so, so, so, so, so much out there about this case. We will list some of the, some of our resources in our show notes, but literally like all we do is Google stuff and figure out the best way to find out what we what we're looking for. So if there's something in particular that you wanna look into more, go right ahead. Because otherwise I think we could do, you could like, I mean, I listened to a long form podcast on this. There was I think 6 episodes and it didn't even touch on multiple aspects of this case.

5:59 This is the thing, there's so many avenues you can go down with this case. Yeah. So if there's a particular Ave. that we maybe haven't gone down much that you could you wanna look into, it's tons out. There, there will be something out there. Yeah. So we're just trying to do like a bit of a summary and yeah, and touch on all of the main points and go from there. So today we are talking about Aaron Joseph Hernandez who was born on the 6th of November in 1989. He was born in Bristol, CT which was a really, really small city or town in Connecticut.

6:29 Yeah, his ESPN started. Oh, I did not not see. Look at you with the facts. You you're saying you didn't get much research done, but look at you go. His mum is Terry Valentine Hernandez, and his dad's name was Dennis Hernandez. And he has an older brother named DJ Hernandez or Dennis Jonathan Hernandez. He actually goes by Jonathan. He goes by Jonathan. Now as a child he went by DJ. So, yeah, you, you've sort of hear him referred to as both their parents. Relationship is interesting. And I'm, I'm, I'm thinking we could probably start there.

7:08 Yeah. They were married twice. They were married in 1986, divorced in 1991 and then remarried in 1996. They had a really sort of volatile relationship. We're both also known to police. Yes, dad. His dad Dennis was arrested for drug affiliated circumstances. Drug I think dealing if not carrying and then mum. I think it was both. I think it was possession and use. Yeah, right. So then Terry was also arrested at one point for running a booking. Yeah, she was investigated by the FBI. Yeah. She was running it out of the house.

7:45 Yeah, there was a story Aaron tells in a recording that was on a prison phone call that was recorded where he discusses this incident with his mum. And he's like, I remember coming home from school. I was 11 years old. Yeah. I walk in and bam, there's the FBI at my sitting at my kitchen table. Yeah. Crazy. This kind of forms a bit of an idea of what their childhood was like. So Mum worked as a secretary at Bristol High. School, I think that sounds. Familiar and Dad worked as a janitor at the other local high school, which was a much baller high school, I believe.

8:20 Yeah. So I mean they were, they were both in gainful employment throughout their, yeah, throughout the boys youth. Dennis was a bit of a local celebrity and so in some ways too, for his his ability in football, yeah. And he did very well. More local like that was I. Think Talent played college football for U Conn, So for the University of Connecticut, Yeah. And was he was known as the king? Did you say that in his yearbook? So because he was. So, I mean, I guess American football is so revered. And to be talented in that arena, especially at these bigger universities who have these massive teams, you are almost like a God or a king if you're really successful.

9:02 So he went to UConn, which is the University of Connecticut. I don't know that he ever actually graduated. He's not. His football career certainly didn't progress. This is Dennis I'm talking about. His football career didn't progress beyond college football. And sort of as things went on, I believe his drug charge came around that time. I don't know if he was sort of removed from the university because of the drug charges. I'm not quite sure, but I couldn't find anything. It was a Yeah, But it was around that time that he ended up taking this job as a janitor and.

9:32 And that's kind of the way his life went. And I think he was. That wasn't the only incident of drug trafficking and perception. That he had that, that continued. But yeah, but he was very talented footballer and yeah, obviously skills got passed on to his kids and, and from all accounts he was very keen on his children becoming amazing. Footballers, well, amazing at any sport, I think. I think he certainly encouraged football, but basketball was up there for both of them as well. Yeah, right. There's, you know, Aaron, when he was at high school, he played basketball and football.

10:08 And there's an interview with one of his high school basketball coaches in one of the documentaries I watched. And his basketball coach says, you know, he was a head taller than everyone. Oh, he sorry. It might have even been his football coach, actually, but he was a head taller than everyone. Yeah. He was a step or two faster than everyone. He was a big boy, like he was very broad and muscular and like he even when there are photos of him in high school. So he would have been I think 15 that one of the photos that I saw.

10:41 I'll see if we can actually pop it on our socials. He looks like a man. He's 15 years old. Yeah. Yeah, he definitely developed very early. Yeah. And he was so tall, and you see, like, prom photos of his. Yeah. And he is literally a head and shoulders above all of his peers. And some of those kids are footballers, too. That's right. And they're very physical and very athletic. Yeah. And yet he still towers above them. Almost like he was built for it. Like it just literally built for what he what he ended up doing in terms of football.

11:12 That's it, yeah. Yeah. So he excelled in football and he so originally because his father had attended UConn and his brother was there as well on a football scholarship as well. The inference was basically that, you know, I guess the idea was that eventually Aaron would follow in those same footsteps and but there was a lot that sort of happened around this time. Dennis went in for a routine hernia operation and he there were complications in that surgery. And two days after, after he attended, like he was in hospital for the surgery, he actually passed away.

11:57 Yeah. So a routine surgery, that's obviously something's gone really wrong there. And he's passed away. Aaron was 16 at the time. So that's a really tough time of life to be going through. I mean, it would be horrific at any age. But for Aaron, this was, he was developing his, well, what was to be his career. And this was something his father had pushed him into. Yeah, something his father. There was absolutely an expectation, wasn't there? Yeah. Well, there was a lot, I mean, a lot has come out around his childhood in terms of his dad since, particularly around physical abuse that occurred and verbal abuse, all those sorts of things that sounded pretty horrific.

12:36 It sounds like his childhood was nothing but unbelievably rough and. Volatile like, yeah. And but he loved his dad. And this is the thing that I mean, kids are they're, they're innate to loving their parents no matter what they do to them. It's like this, you know, unconditional love. But does, I mean, and his brother has spoken about that. He wrote a book as well that's got a fair bit in there about what happened, what their childhood was like. And there was a lot of abuse. A lot of violence like apparently like incredibly aggressive macho type violence.

13:07 And it wasn't only perpetrated on Jonathan and Aaron, it was perpetrated against their mum as. Well, but then there was also further to that, there are allegations that there was a sexual assault on Aaron. I can only find out from like, from what's out there is that it was an older boy. Yeah. So no mention of like it being of who it was. Specifically, I've, I've, yeah. So the only thing I was able to find out, and this is unsubstantiated because nobody from the family and certainly Aaron never spoke about it, named, never named the person, but I have read somewhere that it was a babysitter who was coming into the home.

13:46 So an older male babysitter, I don't believe up from what I could gather, not related to the boys. But yeah, there's certainly the inference that this person perpetrated sexual violence against. And Jonathan like backs that claim. It's not just Aaron who said it. His brother certainly has come out and said the same thing that he was, that it was when he was six years of age that it occurred. So it sounds as though I think that's what happened. I. Certainly. Believe what what's been put out there.

14:17 So yeah, it's I mean, so he's had a freaking shit ass childhood really in a lot of ways. And so to become to come out of that and be like, you know, so good at this sport that could put him on a track to a far better life. It sounds like he's getting himself out. Doesn't. It it really does. Yeah, he so he's offered this like an opportunity to go to UConn. He also around and he's sort of given verbal confirmation to the coach of UConn that that would be something he's interested in. But then his dad has passed away around this time and Aaron's kind of gone a little bit rogue and he has had offers from multiple universities and he decides or Florida University fly him out to have a look around.

15:05 And while he's there, he makes a decision without discussing it with any of his family members. You know, he's a 16 year old boy at this point. He decides he's gonna go to the University of Florida. But The thing is, they want him early. So what they do is they they petition the principle of his high school to allow him to do extra credit in order to graduate early from high school. Now, in order to get so the the principal says he was really conflicted about whether or not to allow him to do this, but ultimately he decided that he would allow it.

15:41 Well, in order that was. Academically, he was doing really well too. He was doing OK. I don't think he was like a raging academic some. Sort of, no. He got some sort of award for doing quite well at school at like at one point, OK, I don't know what they call it. It was like a ducks or something like. AI didn't think he was that academic. Yeah, no, because Shana, his girlfriend, actually got the same award like a like the following year. She was a year behind him and yeah, they both got these awards for.

16:08 Did he get it because he was athletic? Though, so maybe. Because I don't know that he was all that academic. Yeah, I know. I just sort of read into it kind of going, OK, well, he's got some bright, some smarts got got this incredible talent. Maybe it was his popularity type thing. I don't know. I don't know. But so he's, you know, he's doing what he needs to do, but in order to get the extra credits to pass high school, because obviously you need a certain amount in order to pass, they let him do subjects like gardening, right?

16:38 And what was there was another one that was just as ridiculous and he got as in those so he could pass and and get the credit to go to university early. The reason? Shove and dirt. Yeah, you could. The reason that the that Florida Uni wanted him early is because they wanted him to basically start in their spring season and he'd be like basically six months ahead of any other recruit. He'd learn all the plays, he'd train with the team they'd be and he was a a tight end. So he was a cat you. Sounded like you know what you're talking about there.

17:13 Yeah, because I do. OK, OK. Oh, I got into tight ends can. You repeat that. No, I'm not going to. You can. You can clip that one out if you want I. Will I will be? Who else? Who is the most famous tight end You know there's only. One Aaron Hernandez. No, dude. Oh, Travis. Kelsey is Travis. Kelsey, Travis. Kelsey is a tight end. OK, cool. Well, yeah, he is. Yeah, he is. Oh my God, we, we can't. We can't keep doing that. Oh, we could, but we can't. So Travis Kelsey is the only other American footballer whose name I know.

17:48 Well, that I only There's one other that I know that also comes slightly into this story. Tom Brady. Tom Brady. Yes. Yes, I'll make he is gorgeous. Because he's more, I guess, our age bracket maybe. Yeah, that's true. Oh yeah, absolutely. He's our age. I mean, because when he married Bundchen and stuff, it was like so big deal. And so like, it's like he's like, well, it's Kelsey Early. It really isn't. It's a repeat of that a little bit. Totally. I mean of they're both dream boats. Yeah, but it's all I know about football in America is.

18:16 Yeah, actually, you know what they were hard saying. So Travis Kelsey is in the same position, the tight end for the Kansas City Chiefs as to what You know, the position that Aaron Hernandez played most commonly, just sort of. Side note, did you know there's a Hallmark movie that's come out of the Kelsey Taylor Swift romance I know called like Chief of Love or something? Why have you been holding out? When did you find this? Out. No, I don't even know where I had that in my brain, but it yeah, I need to get into it and find it.

18:48 All right, well, let's schedule in a movie night totally all over that. So, OK, I'm it. All I know is I had to look up what a tight end even is, but it is an offensive position. They catch, don't. They and they catch balls. They catch balls, yeah, and then they score touchdowns, but turns out you don't actually have to touch the ball down. You can just run over a line. I I watched a fair bit of American football. For those who don't know, I'm. Looking completely baffled by that touchdown means you touch.

19:17 I don't know, but maybe your legs touching over the line and if you're holding the ball that counts. I really don't know. If anybody knows, feel free to drop us a line and then we'll explain AFL to you. Oh well. That we can do. That we can do. Anyway, so he's this, this tight end and that was really like, I think it's a really prominent position. So, you know, you've got your quarterbacks and your tight ends, and apparently they work really well together. Everyone wants a drinking game. Just play this section and drink every time you hear the word tight end.

19:47 Hey, good one. Love that. Love that for all of you who are going to try it. Yeah. OK, so he's at the universe. He's decided to go to the University of Florida. The their NFL team is are called the Gators. Now we look at our universities and they might have sporting teams. I have absolutely no idea. I'm sure they do. Ours is so different. But it's nothing. It's yeah, you don't hear about them. The Gators stadium in Florida, yeah, holds more people than the whole Township that he grew up in. Oh my.

20:21 God. In one stadium. That's insane. Isn't that insane? So he's gone from this small town. Yeah, where? I mean, the apparently the University of Connecticut, they've got a really big arena and all that sort of stuff as well. They're they're also in this pro level college football arena. Yep. But the Gators are on another level. They're a top three team or something. Yeah. If you have you seen any vision of it? It is inside the amount of people. The bleachers go as far back. You can't even see the people right at the top.

20:51 It's worse than the MCG. Wow. Because I mean, our MCG is considered rather large like so if it's a. 100 odd 1000 people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. Wow, crazy stuff. Yeah. And I think that's not even as high as you can get in terms of. It's the levels of. Well, then you've got the NFL above that. So these coaches in these colleges, they can earn up to $8 million a year a season just for being a college football. That's how. But this is the level I'm talking about. So now I'm thinking we're Salt Lake City Real Housewives.

21:21 So coach on that. Just Jen Shaw's husband did. He coached college football, didn't he? He. Well, he was a recruiter for college football now. I actually looked into this too because sorry side. Note I was. Just, well, I was just like, curious then, OK, yeah. If a coach earns 8 million, how much do all of the other staff earn? And how much money does this actually bring in? It can bring in hundreds of millions of dollars to the university for most of these top tier universities, yeah, it is this their primary source of income, not student fees, not it is I'm.

21:51 Guessing the players don't get paid it. They do. They do get, Yeah, they do get paid. And they're also allowed to take on certain sponsorships. Yeah, right. So they can earn an income that way, too. OK. But it's not like they're earning NFL money. No, no, no, no, no. They also get all of their college tuition paid for. But you know, again, they're passing. They've got to meet. Another criteria I'm guessing to like to. Oh yeah, but they they can do whatever they want pretty much. And they just status exactly.

22:16 They just get ticked off and get A's and oh don't get. Me started. That's a whole other Ave. we can go down as well. Like we probably can't though today. Today. But that is really problematic. Yeah, we've actually talked about doing a an episode on like the college admissions scandals in the US We might do that down the track somewhere. So he is. Aaron is amazing. He's they. He is the number. He's I think in his first. No, sorry, in his second year of college football, he is named the number one tight end, you know, So he's ranked really well.

22:52 Yeah, they're starting to look at him for NFL sides. I think this is just something that NFL teams do. They're constantly ascending their recruiters and whatever around to watch all of these games. I mean, there's huge money in this, so it makes sense that they would start to look many, many years in advance of who they would want in their team. Yeah, but around this time Aaron really starts getting involved in some shit himself and kind of really taints his image in relation to prospective clubs.

23:28 Yep. So whilst he's at the Gators, there was he was actually assigned to a more senior player when he was in younger coming through because he was younger than all of them coming through. And this other guy's come out and spoken about it in that he was sort of tagged along with him and gone out. Particularly they wouldn't he wanted to go to nightclubs and things like that. And he when they were out and about, things would happen like where, you know, he'd get someone had knock him, someone had, you know, just upset him somehow, like very quickly, Aaron would jump to quite aggressive behavior and a number of occasions this guy had to sort of like try and calm him down and remove him from situations.

24:02 But on one particular night, there is an accusation there that potentially he shot at a couple of people one night when after a nightclub incident. So there's lots of that going on in the background. It was also documented by the scouts going out and checking, you know, in on him and because I was just like he was very much being looked at by the NFL. There was one report that came out saying that the notes on it were self esteem quite low, not well adjusted emotionally, not well adjusted emotionally, not happy moods, unpredictable, not stable.

24:36 Doesn't take much to set him off. So these were really damning, kind of. Reports. I saw that report, yeah. And what I found interesting was, I mean, obviously all of his athletic abilities, which are in the same report, were like 10 plus plus plus plus plus off the chart. Yeah. And then they've got his, you know, his personality and attitude and. There was a demeanor. He actually did a personality test at one stage. Again by the NFL, they go this far like, which I'm impressed with. I was impressed finding out all of that, of how they really do.

25:05 They do background. Checks, absolutely. And this personality test that he did, he came out, he scored a one for social maturity. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So I mean, I mean it says so many red flags there and so, yeah. So it was very interesting to see that that's what they. But then they still like, I think they've still obviously weighted his athletic ability way, no. They didn't. Well, because they all said no. They all said no until they got to the fourth round. No. So what happened there was so the Boston, the Patriots are really well known apparently for taking on players that have had trouble.

25:39 And they seem to have a system that kind of works to put they get these players back on track. So Aaron Hernandez was aware of this. And so he wrote a letter to the Patriots saying I take accountability for all my actions. I you know, I understand this is a big a big risk for you to take on me. And I'm going to do this. And if you if I do step out of line, you can take back this money and that money. And like he really hate this letter was very detailed. He, he, this is where I sort of kind of was getting with that little bit of he has some intelligence.

26:13 His manager wrote the letter. Oh, no, sorry, sorry. Oh, now I'm really annoyed. I thought he wrote it. No. I'm sorry, his manager wrote the letter. But anyway, the letter was very well written and it did win them over that there was. It was a good. Move. It was a very, it was the only way, the only way it was going to be able to get there because they were all saying no, Yeah. So we ended up being picked up 113th in the draft. Yeah, in the fourth round, yeah. So he was, he should have been the number one.

26:37 Draft, yes, in his ability he was number one draft pick, although I mean we know as well in terms of AFL football, you can be picked up number one and not go anywhere. You know, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be the greatest. Ever. You still need to be developed and you still need to fit in within the team. And, yeah, I mean, I guess as an NFL footballer, you're putting so much money into these players, yeah, that you want to be sure that they're the right mix and the right fit.

26:59 So just because you're the number one draft pick might not mean you're the best for that team or whatever. But I mean, the fact that his ability was that of somebody who could have been their number one. Yeah. And he was #113 I mean, as I was saying, they've looked into his background as well. They would have known that his parents had convictions. Yeah. They would have known that he had a drug history and that he'd had, although he'd never been arrested for any of the those incidents that you were talking about where he was aggressive towards other people.

27:29 I feel like they would have just had to have spoken to a few friends and whatever to glean all of that information. So they would have had a pretty good and as you said, all of the personality tests and stuff, they would have had a pretty good picture of what they were taking on. Yeah, yeah, big time. But they decided, as in the New England Patriots decided to take him on anyway. So he was actually their second pick for a tight end. Yeah. They had another man whose surname begins with AG Gronkowski, I think, or something like that.

27:58 He. I haven't written it down. I'm sorry if I've absolutely butchered that. I know it began with. Any others that I'll probably butcher later? He he was their number one, but you know, and and then therefore he actually started number one. Once they started playing, he was their go to tight end. Yeah, real quick. Yeah, very fast. But then he got injured and Aaron started playing a little bit more time and then he just took off. Like his ability outshone any of the other that was going on. And so he got all these.

28:27 He was #1 rookie on pretty much everything to anything and anything like for rookies in terms of, you know, since records were being made of what a tight end rookie can achieve, he achieved the top. He was basically. And so he was picked up in 2010. So between 2010 and 20, 2012, basically, he was considered a person who was not only had many years of football life left in him, sort of stuff that he was going to be the biggest and best thing ever and already was considered and well known name in NFL football.

29:00 Yeah, very quickly. I mean, he was catching the ball that, you know, Tom Brady was kicking to him. I'm guess you're throwing, throwing, throwing. Throw it, Yeah. You know, I mean, to catch a ball from Tom Brady. I mean, I'd like to do that, I reckon, yeah. I could go that. Yeah, so I mean, he's he's got a great person throwing it to him, but he's hitting all the the the milestones and that of what a rookie should that's and could it's amazing. And after his rookie year, he was signed on a permanent contract with the New England Patriots.

29:34 Yeah, the contract was worth 40, just under $41 million over. I've seen four and five years written, so I'm not quite sure which one it is. Yeah, he was 22 years old at the time and he also received a 12 and a half million dollar signing bonus. Yeah. That's money that is uncomprendable. It's an extraordinary amount of money for a 22 year old to be taking on. He had a manager who I think he put a lot of faith and trust in. His manager's name was Brian Murphy. And he, I think Brian had been with him from, like, his college days and had really gotten him, like he'd written this letter and he'd really, you know, helped Aaron get to where he was.

30:19 Yeah, but he also says that he had his reservations and I. Forget how to, by the sounds of things. Like, yeah, I mean he, but The thing is Brian Murphy had a fiscal interest in what was happening, yes, with Aaron. So I don't know whether his intentions were 100% pure and he really did have Aaron's best interest. But he certainly wants his 10% cut or probably 20% cut that he was going to make. I mean, if anyone would, yeah. I mean, that's enough for a lifetime, too. So I mean, if he's going to stuff up, he's going to lose all that.

30:53 Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, obviously what those those behaviors were that we were starting to see back in Florida certainly carried over with him once he went to the Patriots, he just seemed to seek out bad behaviour. I'm. Bad he was, he was drawn to it. Very much drawn to it. And one of his colleagues in the on the team was quoted as saying that he got to know Aaron really quite well really when he first arrived. And that they were standing at their lockers and whatever and chatting, getting to know each other and decided to exchange phone numbers.

31:27 And when he did that with Aaron, Aaron said to him, if you ever need me, if anything mate, you let me know. But if you fuck me over, I will kill you. Oh. So that that kind of for this guy was like, what the hell, What just happened? Like it really threw him as to who this guy was. Have you heard of this thing that they called the Patriot Way? No, they explained this in one of the podcasts I was listening to. And I think it probably you were kind of alluding to it before, that the Patriots take on these certain types of players who, OK, may have a troubled past or may have some difficulties in their lives, and they put them through this essentially like a ball.

32:05 Like a big can. And they, so everything they do like their, their motto then is like, we do it the Patriot way. And I've, I've read that what you were just talking about then with that, with that teammate. And he says in that he's like, well, that wasn't the Patriot way. That's that's not the attitude we had. So it actually went against our core team beliefs. And Aaron was always like that. Yeah, he'd say what he had to say to the coach and to the owner of the well, who he had a very. Charismatic, shall we say?

32:36 Hey, there's that. There's that word again. Yeah, because I mean, the coach of the Patriots. Now this is another name that like, I mean, I don't we've fully admitted we don't know much about NFL. But the name Belichick, Yeah, I've heard that yet they mentioned. And I don't didn't really know why I knew that name until we sort of got into it and went, oh, he's clearly like a coach that had ability to coach players who had come from troubled past or whatever. Yeah. So this Belichick was the coach and he was on Aaron's case certainly, and very much was trying to get Aaron back on track and focusing on the game, but just didn't seem to hold water for anyone.

33:14 Got to do that. I feel like Aaron respected him as a coach and but he did things for. That half of his brain that's. It that's what I'm saying, like outside of sight, though we did have a split personality we'll get into. That. So Aaron's girlfriend and slash fiance was Shayana Jenkins. She they met in I think primary school and dated during high school. They split up while Aaron was at the University of Florida, and they sort of reconnected once he'd been drafted in the NFL. On and off a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:51 But they obviously got back together at some point during his early NFL career and bought a house together. And she fell pregnant. They fell pregnant with a little daughter, Avielle, who was born on Aaron's birthday. Oh. You're joking. I didn't notice that, no. He was they were born on the same day, gorgeous. So they, you know, they they really started to form or Shayana certainly was building this home for them. Yeah. And he? Proposed to her, I think before she gave birth. Just before, yeah. Yeah, just before she gave birth.

34:24 So they. Were hitting on this on the outside, you could see this amazing career that he's looking at in front of you. Incredible. Life. They were built. From all accounts, like Shanna, like the praise from other people on the around who she was as a person, that she was a beautiful inside and out person. He's got this beautiful baby they're getting getting it married. If you look at it from the outside in, like if you look at it from the outside, it looks like they've got this incredible life and it's like what you would dream, you know, they've got all this money.

34:53 They've got an A stunning, like absolutely stunning home in a really beautiful area. They've got a new little baby girl. They've got the world is their Royster. But during this time, unfortunately, well, so Shayana's sister. Shania. Shania, thank you. Don't shy Anna. I. Can't imagine being mum trying to yell those names out when you're telling them off when they were. Kids, I get, I get I'm bad enough. I've got Lucas and my nephew's name is Louis. Yeah, I get them little little tongue tied yelling out to them like that's bad enough.

35:31 And one's my nephew. I call my kids a dog's name all the time. Like I can't imagine them being that like like similar names. Even having them written down in front of me is getting me. Yeah yeah. Teased up. Uh huh. So shy. Anna's sister Shanaya was dating a man by the name of Odin Lloyd. Yeah, Shanaya is a very, very impressive young woman in her own right. Very. She was studying law. She is, so she does a lot of like she was already now I think things have changed a lot for her, but she was doing pro bono work.

36:11 She's like really into her community service and really trying to better her town and the people around her. And she was a very, you know, very caring and giving person. Mm hmm. And she was in a relationship with a man named Odin Lloyd. He was born on the 14th of November in 1985. And he was a semi professional NFL player for the Boston Bandit. Yeah, So he was a very talented football as well. And but unfortunately his path had been a little bit disrupted in terms of his steps onto got playing Pro Football.

36:44 And so he had gone through all the ranks similar to Aaron gone into college and playing very good quality college football. However, unfortunately he couldn't financially support himself and and wasn't eligible, wasn't able to access financial assistance. And so I had to unfortunately drop out, drop out of his college. And that meant that it doesn't mean you can't then make it to the NFL, but it's very much the path of like 95% of the the way you get to NFL level. So he was playing semi Pro Football at this stage, which is kind of that next level down that he he he was, and he was hoping to get picked up by NFL still, he was really hoping that would be the next step for him.

37:25 So finding out that your new girlfriend's sister is dating Aaron Hernandez, what a great contact for him to be able to then potentially meet someone who might be able to come and have a look at him or, you know, and just or just be part of that world. Even. I'm guessing that something that he was aspiring to he'd had a pretty rough. Childhood he had a. Really rough child. I think a lot of ways similar to Aaron and the. Very much so. I mean, he didn't have a dad in the picture, I don't think. He had two sisters and his mum was a single mum and had worked really, really hard.

37:56 She's a, she's a really sweet woman, isn't she? Isn't she gorgeous? Yeah, she's just so lovely. Go and have a look at an interview with her. She's she's so, so sweet. And incredibly. Yeah, yeah. Odin unfortunately in associating with Aaron on the 17th of June in 2013, Aaron sent him a text message I think that basically said, hey, let's meet up, I need to kind of catch up with you. And Aaron turns up to Odin's house well. His two mates actually turned up to pick him up I think. Was Aaron not in that car?

38:38 Or maybe he was in the car. I think he was. At that point I thought so they they've. Rented a car, yes, and gone to pick Odin up.

38:49 Over the course of that night it comes to be that Odin is murdered and callously murdered. Yeah, he's shot 6 times and left in a deserted like building site. Yeah, it's like a industrial kind of area and I think there was like a quarry of sorts, right? Because there's there's some buildings around from photos I've seen but there's nothing like where his body was left was like a rubble. Based. Yeah, it was some sort of pit of something that was near like this industrial site. Yeah. So his body was found unfortunately, by a fairly young kid who was he'd been at the gym and he was running home from the gym via this area to his house at about 5:30 in the afternoon, in the evening and stumbled across unfortunately a dead body to which he obviously immediately reported to the police.

39:40 Yeah, which it was unfortunately Odin Lloyd was there on the ground dead. So the police obviously came to the scene pretty quickly. They found on the body a a key to a rental car. A number of other things were found near the body and on the body, one being a joint. There was also a marijuana joint. There was also I think some bubble gum, some blue, blue bubble gum. Yep. They're fairly key to being able to marry up to then who was there at the scene later on. So it didn't take long for the police to then hunt down where this rental car, particularly that that where and What Car that was and then had been rented out by none other than Aaron Hernandez.

40:24 So there was and then they were able to find CCTV footage of the area as well, which again Aaron Hernandez was seen on that footage. That's right. So they can actually see on the neighbours CCTV footage from Odin Lloyd's house. So I think it's the neighbour from across the road. Yeah, they can see that they pick him up at about, was it something about 2:30 in the morning? I think they've. Picked him up when they picked him up, yeah. Around that time, Odin sent 3 text messages to his sister in a fairly quick succession.

40:58 Yep, they were. I've got them here. I'm just gonna I, I did write. Did I write it down? I did write. But he basically said, do you know who I'm with? She wrote back then, Oh, he didn't, He wrote he. Didn't. No, she wrote by Hello, Then he wrote NFL. Yeah, she wrote. Who? And then he came back with NFL just so you. Know, just so you know, yeah. Now, OK, that's. He's obviously felt something in order to have to send those text messages. Yeah, hasn't he? Why he got in that car, we will never know. No, there's some.

41:32 Some people have come out with some theories, yeah. But it's it's really interesting what went on there as to what the reason behind this happening. There's there. OK, let's let's get into that. Yeah, I think we should get into that. All right, so the night before and now, Odin didn't hang out with Aaron a lot, but so it was he was kind of, I think, you know, he enjoyed spending time with him. And we just don't know whether Aaron enjoyed spending time with Odin, but Odin was out with him at a nightclub.

42:04 Whilst at the nightclub, Odin bumped into some cousins of his. And so they were in kind of another area where. And he was like, oh, but that's my cousin's over there. So he's gone over to have a drink with his cousins. At this point in time, Aaron Andez was quite well known for doing PCP. Yeah, which can give you quite hallucinations and things like that, but quite paranoia, really. And it was already noted by quite a number of the people around Aaron that the paranoia had gotten pretty, pretty bad with him.

42:31 So he would got the Odin had gone over to his cousins and what they were chatting and whatever, having a couple of drinks together. And it appears that maybe the cousins didn't like Odin hanging out with with Aaron maybe or maybe just didn't like Aaron. But there's or they may have just been kind of going that's the NFL play. I don't like it. And a little bit of pointing, maybe going on a little bit of like gesturing in Aaron's direction the pot. The thought is that maybe Aaron has taken quite offence to this.

43:00 So at the end of the night, that night, they've gone home and Aaron's got really, really annoyed about this. And that's when he's gone around and picked up Odin to say hey, get in the car and he's gone and executed him. Yeah, it's, it's, it's horrific. I mean, that that's, that's the theory I've heard most bandied about as well. Yeah, there is never an excuse to kill somebody, but that's just. Doesn't. Pathetic, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. It's it, it defies logic. And I guess, I mean, if you're looking at it from the lens of Aaron being in this drug fueled stupor, yeah, people around him, because of who he was and the celebrity that he was, they fed that, you know, nobody stood up to him.

43:49 He was a ringleader. He was an alpha male. He was certainly a very blokey bloke and a very masculine. And I'm not saying masculine in that every man who's masculine is aggressive, but in that really traditional aggressive alpha male type of persona, yes. Because if we go, I mean, I don't know if we want to go back or not from here at this point now, but this was certainly not

44:17 a a singular incident that had occurred that it was kind of out of Aaron's personality. Yeah, there was certainly other incidences prior to this that he had. Don't No. Just say it. No, say it. He. Hasn't been convicted of these other things, yes, but there is a fair bit of evidence out there to say that he was involved in some way. Yeah, so he the what makes referring to is that prior to the murder of Odin Lloyd, he was implicated in and never convicted of the murder of like a drive by shooting of two men who he'd also had an encounter with at a club in which Stingley.

44:57 And an encounter which was. Like, well, they basically bumped him and he knocked his drink, and they think that was the motivation for him. Then getting in his car, following them when they stopped at a stop sign or at a red light, literally getting out of his car and shooting them point blank. Yeah, both of them, yeah. So, and with him that night on when that occurred is another man named of the name of Alexander Bradley. So then about a few months after that incident, Alexander Bradley ends up being shot in the face.

45:32 Through his eye, Through his. Eye now IA could only he was left for dead. Whoever did that, he was very lucky to survive it. He did lose his eye and has a glass eye now and there's thoughts that that was Aaron Hernandez did that to him because there was talk around. He'd brought up this killing of these other two blokes. So he was trying to tell him to shut up either trying to tell him warn him to shut. Up he was trying to kill him he. Shuts him up, yeah. They don't shoot someone in the eye and think, oh, maybe they'll survive.

46:02 So because after that but. Bradley has never. Yes, he has has. He yes, yes, he has. Originally when he was he was shot, he said don't know who did it, don't anything yes, right. But when it came to the trial of so Aaron Hernandez was charged with the for the murder of Daniel. I'm gonna murder his name Daniel Diabro. Diabro. Yeah. And Sofiro Furtado. Yeah. They were the two men that were killed in the car. Yeah, in the drive by shooting. In 2012, 2012, yeah. So Alexander Bradley, when that trial came to pass, he was the key witness.

46:42 He so he was already in jail for about 5 years. He was put in jail for some drug charges, I think it was. Yep. No, no shooting up a shop. That was what he, what he. Did he also had drug convictions for drug? He did as well, but I think more so when he was in jail for at that point in time was this shooting up of a OK, a shop of sorts? Yep. So he had fought, he was in jail for four to five years at that point, but he had done a deal where he would testify at the trial against Aaron Hernandez and come clean that and what to say what he witnessed.

47:12 And in that same process, then Aaron Hernandez was also charged with basically trying to like attempted murder of a witness, right, and tampering with a witness to a crime. OK. So not only that, he did also sue Aaron Hernandez at one point for that as well. So he definitely can't he he came forward saying it was Aaron, but at this point, because he'd done a deal with the cops over it, the defence claimed, well, he was. The defence attorney claimed that Aaron Bradley was only Alexander Bradley was only in this for himself and that that's all bullshit.

47:51 And he was actually saying that to get the deal. Yeah, and it was Alexander Bradley who actually shot the two guys and Aaron Hernandez was in the car, but that's it. So, OK, very complicated. It is really, really. Complicated, but yeah. So he certainly did come out and say he did. That was Aaron Hernandez that shot him. OK, But it was just that it wasn't believed in that court that that's what happened. But he had a very good defense. Attorney. Oh, he had an amazing defense attorney, An amazing defense attorney, yeah.

48:22 On the night. So, you know, on the night that Odin sort of going back to that. Now, the next day, obviously, Odin's body is found. The police then link the car key that was found with Odin's body to Aaron Hernandez. So they actually go to Aaron's house and execute the first search warrant there. So prior to the the search warrant being executed though on June 17th. Yep. Aaron had hired cleaners to come through the house. They were his permanent house cleaners that he got in on a on an extra day, extra day and got them to, quote UN quote, scrub the house.

49:00 Yeah. Not only that, he also destroyed his security system. But didn't do a great job because he didn't destroy it all. No, so they weren't able to get the CZTV, but he did attempt to destroy it and broke his phone up into pieces. Yeah, I mean. Does that not scream guilt? It screams guilt. It absolutely screams guilt. But what I find interesting about what the police found was they found the CCTV footage. So he destroyed the security system in that it would no longer work. Yeah. So the police have access to the CCTV footage that wasn't destroyed in Aaron's, you know, attempt to get rid of any evidence.

49:41 And you can see that he comes into his house on the night of the murder, and he's holding something dark in the shape of a gun. And claim it's an iPad. Yeah, I've never seen an iPad look like a gun before. Or when Shyana is testifying, testifying about that footage in court, they ask her, well, what do you think it is? And she goes, oh, I don't know. I don't know. We could couldn't possibly speculate what that gun shaped item might be. So they look at that. They also see that Aaron comes home with the other two accomplices.

50:19 They are hugging each other and you know, they're all Bros. You know, they're tapping each other on the back. They're coming in. Because there's there's further footage where he comes up from the basement and he's clearly holding a gun. Yes. And they But the defense claim that was because he was scared of the other two boys, Ortiz and Wallace. Yeah, but that's. But that's not true because there's also CCTV footage where he's holding his daughter, Aaron's holding his daughter, and he passes her to Ortiz.

50:51 Ortiz is lying on the couch and playing with his daughter on her chest. On his chest, you wouldn't hand your baby. Daughter to a man that you're scared? To a man that you're scared of, or nor would you have him in your house, lying on your couch. And the other Wallace was in the kitchen. You can see him? Yeah. Like he was making himself at home. There was No. They weren't scared of one another. They were good friends. It just does like totally unsettle me the whole idea even of the three of them have been out doing their murdering and now they've come home to play with the baby.

51:21 And their Bros, you know, it's it's horrible. It is a whole another world. Aaron behaves like he's untouchable. And you know what? He actually has been getting away with stuff right from his high school days when he was showing promise as a high school footballer. So this is pre college. A friend and a friend of his. He and a friend were both caught smoking marijuana. His friend was the only one to receive consequences because if Aaron had of received consequences he wouldn't have been allowed to play for a certain number of games and they needed him to win so they turned a blind eye.

51:58 The same thing happened in college. He had these drug charges, he had other things going against him and everyone turned a blind eye he got. Suspended briefly, but that's about it. Like. I don't. But he was still allowed to play football, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So he. Yeah. And then he's at the New England Patriots and, you know, everyone says he had there's there must have been some kind of split personality type thing going on because he was great with his teammates, kids and he was really part of the team and really personable.

52:33 And, you know, he goes out and talks to school kids and, you know, he's trying to be a role model. And he even says in an interview that there aren't many Hispanic athletes in American football. And so he as a as a Hispanic, because his daddy's Puerto Rican. Yep. He wants to be that for children. He wants to be a Hispanic role model. And yet you're going out and doing this shit. Stop it. Don't say one thing and act in another way because it's not OK. That's where. I wonder if he actually, I don't know, I mean, we can get into that, what the brain, where his brain was at and what was going on there.

53:15 Cuz to me, there was definitely two sides to him and whether it was compartmentalizing them in some way of who he was in front of his football fans and all that sort of stuff. And in his day-to-day life and then who he was at night sort of stuff. Yeah. Was so different. Yeah just unbelievable. I mean again, cuz on that whole front of him, his daughter and everything, he was obsessed with his daughter. He was so this is changing his life and he was so into being a dad and just couldn't wait to get home to her sometimes so beautiful to hear but.

53:47 Sometimes couldn't wait to get home to her. Yeah, he had another apartment. So this was known known about by the New England Patriots business manager, who also assisted many of the players in their personal finance. So I don't know whether this was something that the New England Patriots were paying for or whether this was more on a personal level for Aaron. But he was renting this like really nondescript cheap apartment in a in a really sort of low key area, nothing flashy. And he said to his business manager at the time, you cannot tell shy Anna about this.

54:27 This is just for me to know. And his neighbour also testified in court at his trial for Odin Lloyd where? And she basically said it just smelt like marijuana. They'd have girls over. You know he was. He was shaving. And knew that a lot of that was going on though. She did, and she sort of turned a blind eye. She sort of had this whole persona around her of like, if I want to be with Aaron, the good parts of Aaron, I have to put up with the shit parts. And that was just. Do you think that she was financially motivated?

54:57 Oh look, I'm sure there was an element of that. I I find it curious that they got back together when he was drafted to the NFL. I think they were still in communication, the whole. Time though they were, but there's there was obvious there were reasons why they broke up and I know he moved away and that presents its own challenges. But if it's for both of them in terms of that relationship though. I'm sure there were. I've I'm sure there were. I feel like for Shana though, maybe her reasons were more fiscally motivated.

55:27 She to this day, you know, declares her love for him and backs him entirely. That's. True, I believe. Instagram page is full of, you know, beautiful quotes about him and she. Also changed her name. Yeah. By deed poll. Yeah. So they never got they never. This is a bit on the nose but they never got married but she has changed her name to Shayna Jenkins Hernandez. Which I wonder whether, I mean, part of me is a little bit like, OK, I'm assuming her daughter has that name. So. And they were going to get married.

55:55 Yep. But I still kind of find that a little bit. I don't know. It's it's weird. It's weird, Yeah. It's odd. Yeah.

56:06 Aaron was arrested on the 26th of June 2013 for Odin Lloyd's murder. Yeah, So this was, what, nine days after the actual murder took place? And this was really well televised because all of the major news outlets knew this was coming at some point. They'd been camping out at Aaron's house. He hadn't left. He'd sort of bunkered down at home. And there's a really iconic image of him. So the police come to his front door and he's just wearing red shorts, no top. The police then enter his house and about half an hour later, they exit with Aaron in handcuffs with a white T-shirt over the top of him.

56:50 So his arms are bound behind his back in handcuffs. And then AT shirt's been put over him. So you can imagine his arms aren't through the holes of the T-shirt. Looks very straight. Jacket ish. Very much so, yeah. This is since known on on social media as Hernandezing, and if you type in #hernandezing into TikTok, you know I did it. Oh. God. People are copying that. Like there are Halloween costumes of people like this, people doing dances. Doing. With their with their arms like bound behind them in AT shirt over the top.

57:25 Sorry. But I bet their 6 packs don't shine through quite as well as his. How? Good is his six pack. He was never free again after this point. So he's been taken into custody and he had to stay like he wasn't granted bail. I mean, there was a lot of circle circumstantial evidence against him that sort of led to his arrest. But yeah. But the trial didn't begin until 2015 till January 2015. 90 minutes after his arrest, the Patriots released him. Yes, they were quick and swift at. I feel like, I mean, obviously they knew it was coming in that nine days.

58:03 You know, they knew he because he was. Absolutely. And the police weren't quiet in saying that he was their number one suspect. Yeah, but they just didn't. It took them nine days to arrest him. Which I mean, it's still pretty good, I have to say. Like, you know, they've, you know, they've managed to get all their evidence together in that that space of time and know they've got their guy. Yeah. But like so obviously the Patriots wanted to distance themselves fairly quickly and especially, I mean, they couldn't really do that until.

58:25 He was arrested. Yeah, and even more so, I mean, some would say, you know, you shouldn't have even done that till he was convicted, say, you know, because he's innocent till proven guilty. But I think in their situation with the amount of money he was being paid, that was a fair call. I mean all these so all of his sponsors, everyone exit out staged or left. Yeah, so he had this life that was incredible. And in an instant, basically it's just turned to shit. Yes. Yeah, and so shortly after as well.

58:51 Shortly after he was arrested for Odin's murder. In the months coming, he was also charged with the murders of the two drive by shooting. Yeah, the ones who accidentally bumped his drink in the. Truck. I try and say their names again, I'll totally destroy them, so go back. If you want to re listen to the way Meg Meg says those, I'm not even going to attempt it. No, his first name is Daniel. And yeah, the dude was Furtado. Furtado. Something furtado. Daniel and Furtado, yeah. Yeah, he the way that they found out that he was connected to those crimes.

59:26 So it's really interesting. So at the time of at the time of Aaron Hernandez's dad's death, he and his mum really became estranged. They don't have the best relationship. Given the way Aaron grew up, I can really understand that, that it sounds like things were volatile. His mum was involved in crime, his dad was involved in crime. He feels like in his dad's death, his mum didn't support him and his brother through that. She. Remarried. Really. Quickly. And who did she remarry? Her. His cousin's husband, yes.

1:00:00 So he really then lent on his cousin Tanya Singleton, and he lived there for a time. She she says that he's like a son to her. They were incredibly close. They were so close that Aaron left the car that he was in when he perpetrated the drive by shooting in her garage for years and years and years until the police found it when they were searching her house because Aaron had lived there in relation to the Odin Lloyd murder. Yeah, yeah. Wow, Yeah. They've been looking for that car for for years. Yes.

1:00:40 Stumble across it in that garage. Yeah. So they then got a search warrant to search that car and they were able to prove that it was the car that was involved in that drive by shooting. So that's how they were able to then bring the charges upon Aaron for that crime as well. Yeah. And Tanya, they've also brought charges against her. She was suffering. So she was like, it was, I don't know, a conspiracy to no, what was her charge? Obstruction of justice, maybe, but she was actually suffering from primary breast cancer.

1:01:15 But she had secondary. She had lung. Yeah, I believe colon cancer. She was not in a good way. She served four months in prison. Yeah, for. For that. And then compassionate grounds, basically they didn't charge you with anything else, but based on the fact that unfortunately. Terminal. Terminal and passed away not long after all this sort of played out, yeah. I mean, her sentence had sort of always been given to her already, which is awful, yeah. Yeah, but she also committed a crime. Oh. Totally.

1:01:44 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sorry that she was doing 3 bodies. No, you wouldn't, of course, and you wouldn't wish that on anyone. But she's still like, cancer aside, Yeah, she still she's assisted and knew what was going on. Yeah, and there was lots going on in terms of behind the scenes while she was in jail, between then conversations with I believe it was Wallace or Ortiz. I think it was Ortiz. Yeah, that she was potentially getting money to him or he was getting money to her or something to, I can't remember exactly how that all played out.

1:02:14 It's quite complicated. Excuse me? Yeah. They were being sort of paid off to keep quiet on certain things. Yeah, yeah. Just just crazy. Yeah, crazy, crazy stuff. We are now at the point of the trial of Aaron for Odin's murder. There again, there is so much to to look into if you want to look into this into more depth. But the, the, the outcome of it was that he was convicted of first degree murder for Odin Lloyd. The other two perpetrators who were there were only, so they both actually pled guilty to accessory charges.

1:02:54 So they were they and they both did four or five odd years in prison each. Aaron received a life in prison sentence. He was serving that sentence when the trial for the drive by shooting came about. And he so he went, you know, underwent that that trial during this time and he was actually found not guilty on both charges. So on the two attempt on the 2 murder charges for both of the men in that car. Yes, that was where they they built they the defence attorney was able to put a bit of doubt in the jury's mind as to whether or not it was Alexander Bradley who shot them or whether it was Aaron Hernandez.

1:03:38 Yeah, yeah. Which is interesting. It is interesting the relief. So again, you can go and have a look at this Google Aaron Hernandez court case, whatever. You can see his reaction. So when he was convicted of the murder of Odin Lloyd, he is stoic. You don't even really see a change in his face. He doesn't look to anyone. He just sits there, stands up, They handcuff him and they take him away. When the conviction is, well, when he's not convicted, when he's yeah of the other two murders, he's so emotional.

1:04:23 Sobbing. Sobbing, he turns around. He looks at his daughter. He blows a kiss to her. She's in the courtroom. Just for the just for that last part. Shyana was the only family member to attend that 2nd court case. He had no other support. Everyone had abandoned him by that point. I mean, he was a convicted murderer, so I mean, that's going to give you a few enemies, isn't it? Or people certainly aren't going to stick by you if that's where you're at. Yeah, well, even Shanna for, you know, backing Hernandez in that way, she lost her sister, too, so they were quite estranged.

1:04:56 There's very little communication between them since that point. Yeah, I think Shanna also had a perjury charge brought against her for that first trial against in relation to Odin Lloyd, because she was obstructive in not remembering things and whatever that that ended up being thrown out. But yeah, I think that was probably more to put some pressure on on Aaron's side of things to. Yeah, which was pretty much granted immunity in terms of things as well because of that, because she didn't testify, but she certainly didn't testify against Aaron.

1:05:26 She she was very. She forgot a lot of things we've. Got a lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Like where she put a box with a potentially a gun in it. Yeah. There's there's again CCTV footage of her basically with a black, this giant black plastic garbage bag with something heavy and box like inside it that Aaron had asked her to get rid. Of yeah, it was a text message which was fairly code written around removing that box. You know how you broke the TV sitting near there? Make sure you get rid of that. Yeah.

1:05:56 And so she does, but she can't remember where. She can't. She thinks she put it in a dumpster, but she can't remember where the dumpster is. And she drove her sister's car there, although she'd never driven her sister's car before. And she had access to all of their cars. Yeah, it was all very interesting. There's an interview. Oh, sorry. So Shania, Shania the her sister who was Odin Lloyd's girlfriend. So she actually when this all went down and obviously didn't know it was Aaron who had killed him and he certainly wasn't, you know, being looked at first.

1:06:27 She went and stayed at Aaron Hernandez house with her sister. And Aaron Hernandez like was really, really supportive of her doing the whole like, we're going to find out who killed him and we're going to we're going to help you and all that sort of thing. I just find that really off like making out as if he didn't have anything to do with it. I just found that. Like, he's just as upset and he wants justice. Yeah, yeah. Justice was ultimately served, I suppose. Yeah. Two days after his the second trial, he and he was acquitted of those two murders.

1:07:02 He there is so he's in prison still serving out the life sentence for Odin Lloyd and he is found hanged in his cell. He had created a noose essentially out of bed sheets and tied himself to the bars of a window. And he basically, they said he would have had to have really wanted to do this because he would have had to have gone against all of his instincts to stand up because he could have stood up, but he's had to basically bend. His knees, he put soap and shampoo all over the floor. And they say that potentially 2 reasons for that one.

1:07:44 That way the guards couldn't get to him like they, you know, they'd slip and fall getting to him to stop it from occurring, right, but also to stop himself from being able to get footings to stand up. Yeah, so. It's still he would have had to have had he. Had to have wanted this to have occurred. Yeah, he's, he's put everything into it. Yeah, interestingly it was, it was a conversation between him and another prison mate before that happened where he'd asked that prison mates opinion on the fact that he had an appeal out on his conviction for killing Odin Lloyd.

1:08:15 Obviously he'd been acquitted of the other murder, the other murders. So the only one outstanding obviously at that point in time was his murder of Odin Lloyd. And if while the appeal was on foot, what if that if he was to die, would that appear, Would that appeal then sort of basically get put to the side and he would basically be absolved of that? Yeah. So there's a really archaic law. Yeah, in Massachusetts, and it's called an abatement law. So if you die while you're on appeal, your career, your conviction is automatically erased.

1:08:54 Yeah. And that's what happened in the case of Aaron Hernandez. So he was actually acquitted of Odin Lloyd's, Lloyd's murder because he'd appealed it and he died while it was on appeal. How unfair and how awful is that? Odin Lloyd's mother changed this law in in the wake of this. So Aaron's acquittal still stands because the law was changed after this fact. But she said she does not want any other family who's in this situation to have to go through what she went through. And, you know, the judicial system decided that, yes, this was an archaic law and it was not something that was any longer appropriate in today's society.

1:09:35 So that that was overturned. So if anything, that's a legacy that Odin, Lloyd's mother, was able to to leave in tribute to her son. What a weird. What a weird law. I know I found that really interesting because it an appeal stage, you have all the facts. Yeah, it's basically now a judge just deciding whether or not it was done correctly. So him being there or not doesn't really matter. Yeah, it doesn't at all. Yeah, so he, Aaron left three suicide notes, 1 to his fiance, and in it he writes, Now you're rich.

1:10:14 Yeah. So there's a thought process that because of the way, because he's now not convicted of that murder that now he's $40 million contract. There is well not all 40 million of it, but parts of that 40 million contract stand and he she should receive. Feeling all of that money. Chunk of money yet, so that was interesting to think that he was, I mean part of me kind of go OK, he was looking out for his wife and not wife, but girlfriend and daughter in doing that in his fucked up life. But still, that's a weird thing and a weird way to say it.

1:10:48 Yeah, really odd. Really strange. You left a letter for his daughter? Yeah, Shana thinks that potentially so she doesn't believe that he committed suicide. She thinks that he was murdered in prison because she doesn't. She just doesn't think that he would ever leave her or her daughter or their daughter. She says that the letter's lovely, but it's not personal, and that's what makes her think that Aaron didn't write it. There is some. So the prison guards on the night that he killed himself, they didn't do what they were meant to do.

1:11:23 So they were meant to do hourly checks. But this particular guard on this particular night was a bit lazy. First time he went around, I think he forgot like the key to get into that whole wing of the prison. So he just didn't do the check there. He. Was obviously he was on his own in a particular cell because he was so famous and he was very segregated from other other inmates so. He's like, I can't hear anything, so I'm sure he's fine. He's right. Did that three hours in a row and then on the 4th hour is when he was discovered.

1:11:52 Yeah. So you know, he's had a lot of time there. And he was well and truly deceased when? Maybe he knew that's what the pattern of the guard that that guard's actions were too, and you just use it to his advantage at that time. So. Maybe he. Knows. The other letter was for his lawyer and you know, has been described as potentially a bit of a confessional of other other. Things I heard that that letter was for someone else. Well, that's where the conjecture comes in. Although I, the lawyers, have said that it was for them.

1:12:23 So why would what? What motive do they have to lie? Yeah. Because if they thought it was for someone else, we haven't even gotten into this side of things. There's. A whole. So let's just really, really quickly talk about this side of things. Aaron had had sexual relationships with men from a fairly young age. Whether he was bisexual or homosexual and living a life that he thought he should be living with Diana, we don't know well. Yeah, I mean, I heard, and I find this really sad that he believed that he'd been made into being gay because of being he was, he was sexually abused as a child, which I just find that that really unsettles me like that.

1:13:06 Well, one, that people that he grew up in a household that homosexuality, his dad was absolutely adamant that that was not OK, which is awful. But to think that that's what turns you gay and that's, I mean, it's proof that that's not what makes you gay. And so they are, I really do question his, I don't know, his idea of what being gay is. And I think he's got a whole lot of issues in terms of his thinking around what gay is and how how you become gay. It's not, that's not how you become gay. And there's nothing wrong with it.

1:13:38 But yeah, he lived a life of not really knowing who he really was, I think, and really misunderstood himself in that sense. For sure, but he'd look, to his credit, he sought out some professional help with an NFL psychologist around this matter and confessed to the psychologist that he had sexual feelings towards men. Yeah. And the psychologist said at the time, you're not the first person, you're not the second person, you're not the third person in NFL to told me that there are countless other men, none of whom had come out at the time as being gay and being in the AFL, NFL, sorry, but they were there.

1:14:17 Of course they were Gay people represent a percentage of any population. It doesn't matter whether you're an A of an NFL footballer or you're a ballet dancer or you're a teacher or you're AI don't know whatever a gardener, it doesn't matter. But in that mass hyper masculine environment, it was, I don't know, nobody came out. Yeah, well, I mean it's still fairly low I think. I know from AFL perspective it's it's not. Representative. Of the population, yeah, it doesn't. And it's it's so wrong. I mean, I hope that men are starting to feel like they can come forward.

1:14:53 And no matter what they do for a living, yeah, that could be your life. And there's no, there should be no shame on that whatsoever. Yeah, the stigma needs to fuck right off. Oh God, yeah. After Aaron's death, his mum and brother agreed to donate his brain to, I think it was the Boston University. They have a brain science unit there and they look at a They were sort of studying brains initially looking at Alzheimer's, and they found that in brains of people who had suffered multiple concussions or head traumas over their life.

1:15:34 They discovered what they call chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE for short. And this is a neurodegenerative disease that is linked to repeated head trauma. Basically, it's diagnosed after death at the moment via dissection of the brain. So it's not something at the moment that can be diagnosed. I want to ask you that. In life. Yeah. Because but they are trying. How towards it, are they? Yeah. That's why they've that's why they've got this, these very, very clever people trying to figure out a way of how to diagnose during life.

1:16:07 Yeah. In Aaron's case, he had very advanced disease at 27 years of age. He was the most advanced. He had the most advanced disease they had seen in somebody of that age. Sorry. If anyone, they'd seem sorry, let alone someone of that age. Because he'd only at that stage, I mean, we're talking say, say, just thinking about his life as NFL and saying that's where he's getting because they received those concussions. I mean, he's been playing NFL a long, long time. I'm not even NFL necessarily about playing football for a very long time.

1:16:39 But he only played like three seasons for the NFLI mean he'd been playing football. He's pretty much tired, but I don't know how many concussions he'd actually received. So this. Is this is the thing he'd received one noted concussion in high school. Yep. 1 during university, yeah. And then in once they get to NFL, they don't really record them. What? But. But they. And there's a culture that if you get knocked out, you get back up again and you keep going. And what we know now is that is the literal worst thing that you can do.

1:17:20 I was the trainer for my son's AFL football junior football team. Yeah. And there is a rule now that is brought out by, well it's an AFL wide rule. So it's whether you play AFL professionally or at the grass roots level like our little kids do, if you receive a head knock and a concussion, you have to sit out from football for 21 days and there's a whole concussion protocol that goes along with that. And then honestly, as a parent, you need to make the decision as to whether or not you want your child continuing down that path.

1:17:53 Yeah, knowing what we know now, and we're definitely at the very infant stages, yeah, of knowing what this is going to potentially cause in the future. But there are AFL footballers who receive a concussion. Mm Hmm. I mean, I know there's a, there's a Melbourne football player who has retired this year because he received such a bad concussion that he, he said his brain health is not worth it. He has to quit. Yeah, there's there's no option. I mean. There's a lot of ex players that have come forward as well, you know, with similar things.

1:18:21 There are players who like, there are men who are in there like 50s and 60s who can't drive a car anymore, who don't know where they've left their car keys, who have no executive functioning because of these repeated traumas. Yeah. In Aaron's case, it's affected his frontal lobe, which you know is involved in decision making, impulse control, all that executive functioning and your propensity to be violent. Absolutely, yeah. And so. And I'm not saying that everybody with CTE, in fact most people with CTE then don't go on to perpetrate murder.

1:18:54 No, But Aaron's obviously had a history of really poor behaviours, yeah, that have been escalated to this point, probably somewhat accelerated by his CTE. And I mean, you've got to wonder when this started to occur for him. You know, he, I mean, we talked about much earlier in the in this, about his dad's abuse, this thing, and that was physical. So I mean, he could have been getting concussions as early in life, you know, as First off in his first few years of life. So I mean, I dare say with the how the brain works, that if this has happened earlier in life, potentially it's had even more impact than happening later in life too, because of that executive functioning being damaged, you know, along the way.

1:19:32 So yeah, at the point there's got to be intervention for these things. I mean, I'm hoping that they're moving really close towards being out of, you know, do brain, brain scans in life and pick these things up earlier. Because I'm, I, I guess for, you know, an errant situation. I wonder whether as a younger person, it's like, you know, starting college, you know, they do a brain scan to say to see what's going on if they intervene, you know, and kind of is there treatment? Is there something you can?

1:19:56 Do well. There's no treatment at the moment but but will there be at some point? We don't know. Potentially enough. Enough intervention to have someone not murdered. Yeah, like, but it still requires the person, or if it's a child, the person's parents, to make a really tough decision. So you actually have to decide that maybe your child who is passionate about playing a sport, like, OK, Aaron's received this. He received a really significant concussion in high school. What if the advice was given then to his family to say he should not be playing football anymore?

1:20:32 Well. And that's where I think it's really hard to say. But that's a really, really tough decision to make. But at the end of the day, that's your child's brain health. Yeah, and ongoing. Would you rather him stop playing football at that point and live a very ordinary life or continue on and potentially turn into who he turned into? You know, but get that $40 million contract. But what did that 40 million contract mean at the end of the day? Fuck all. Because he killed someone. That's where you, well, killed 3.

1:21:04 Don't. You like and kind of go for him. It was a definite it should have been a this is it for you mate. You're done, but. Hindsight's a beautiful thing too, because not everybody who receives multiple head traumas will develop CTE either. And and all to that extent of what he, you know, developed so. That's it. Oh. It's so hard. It's really complex. So yeah, as you said, let's hope they can develop screening tools for people while they're alive and maybe you can monitor the disease and. So I'm wondering too, like, you know, I mean, we always start, you know, from AFL to NFL, like AFL players are considered hardcore.

1:21:37 I mean, I know a lot of Americans that I know that have watched AFL, you know, go holy cow, that's ridiculous. Well, they can't believe that they don't wear any reaction whatsoever. Whereas, I mean, yeah, like NFL players wear a whole lot of gear to protect themselves, in particular helmets. But I know that like the helmets they wear for AFL that we've spoken about with our young kids, like they sort of say potentially not as, but the thing. With the helmet is it doesn't prevent a concussion because your head is.

1:22:02 Your brain is still smacking into the inside of your head. You can't protect your brain. No. So is that the same? That would obviously be the same with the big helmets they wear in NFL compared to like these ones so our kids are wearing. That's it. Those hard, big helmets, they're protecting against fracture, fractures and, you know, eyes being, you know, poked out or I don't know, you know, they're a far more sort of. External injury that like yeah your protection cannot and. Helmet doesn't prevent a concussion.

1:22:28 No, because that's your brain banging against the. Inside the inside of your head and you can stop that. No, nothing stops. That no and so. It's a really tough one. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, we all love our football, whether, you know, in America it be NFL and we're in an AFL in Australia and you know, we pay them incredibly well to play these amazing sports for us. But geez, there's some real negative impacts potentially, Yeah, for them, yeah. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, really tough. Anyway. Well, just ending on a quote like James Patterson who was an author, I just, I feel like there was a really good quote from him in terms of how he saw Aaron Hernandez as being an all pro footballer who operated like a serial killer.

1:23:09 It's true. Which is so true and unfortunately, apparently whilst he was in jail, Aaron Hernandez spoke to another inmate and actually referred to potentially that he called four people. Oh, I didn't know about that. And if he did, if that is true, Yep, that turns that he then qualifies as a serial killer. He does. Yeah. So I don't know if that's true. That was just it, you. Know whether that needed a throwaway comment. Yeah, or not, But if that was true, there you go. Yeah, I mean, three's a lot.

1:23:37 Not that we can say he murdered the other two because he wasn't convicted of those other two murders. But I mean, he allegedly, potentially he, he attempted to kill Alexander Bradley. Yep, good point. Let's leave it on that note. Please join us again next week. If you'd like to buy us a coffee, head over to buy me a coffee.com/two Crime Besties. Next week are in our show nights along with our socials as well. Yep, and please follow us on our socials. We we would really, really, really like some more followers on Instagram and Facebook, please.

1:24:14 I just need a few more on TikTok before I get to that next level of what I can do too. Oh yeah, TikTok. Let's do that too. Thanks. Thanks everyone, really appreciate it. Next week we are going to be talking about Jane Thurgood Dove, I even. Know the next episode was. You're welcome. This one's a big case of mistaken identity, so stay tuned for this one. Yeah. OK, this is. Oh, that's a good. It's a really good one. Yep, All right. Very interesting. OK. Thank you everybody for joining us and we'll see you again next week.

1:24:40 Thanks, everyone. Bye. Curious crime besties. Bye.

1:25:01 He trained with the team they'd be and he was a a tight end, so he was a captain. You sounded like you know what you're talking about there. Yeah, because I do. OK, OK. Oh, I got into tight ends. Can you repeat that? No, I'm not going to. You can. You can clip that one out if you want I. Will I will be?