Episode 23 - Aaron Hernandez

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties. We're on episode 23 this week.

0:19 Welcome, Emma. Thanks, Meg.

0:20 It's so exciting. I know I say that every week,

0:22 but I just, this is my favorite part of my week.

0:25 I love it. Somebody.

0:26 Somebody. Said to you, yeah, yeah.

0:29 When someone said to you this week, I don't know how you fit

0:31 it all in. And you're like, then you take

0:32 on a podcast and it's like, no, no, that's my, that's my fun

0:35 time. Yeah, this is This is my my

0:39 hobby, I guess. Yeah, same for you.

0:41 Yeah, definitely. I love it.

0:42 It's a highlight of my week. Love doing it, yeah, And love

0:45 researching it. And yeah, this is always fun.

0:48 We get to the end and we're like, oh, we actually do know

0:50 things, so. Yeah, this is it.

0:52 I'm like today as I've had a bit of a week trying to get the

0:55 research in for this. I sort of mentioned this this to

0:57 you that I had other priorities this week.

1:00 And you know what? As you're off cider in this

1:03 podcasting gig, I fully supported your ultimate

1:06 priorities. My priority was very important

1:09 because I've got one of those stupid bloody Telstra box things

1:12 that's expiring to what expired today like it's done.

1:16 It does not, will not work this morning, which is the only

1:19 device. I have another device to watch

1:21 stuff through, but that was the only device I would be able to

1:24 watch Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, OH.

1:27 Now, guys, guys, if you're not into the Real House Live

1:31 Housewives franchise, what's wrong with you?

1:34 Oh, well, firstly, yeah. But I, I was always a die hard

1:38 Beverly Hills die hard. And then one of our friends said

1:42 to me, you have to watch Salt Lake City.

1:45 And I was like, Oh yeah, all right, I am obsessed.

1:50 It is. So good.

1:51 Well, now I am too. I love it.

1:54 I mean, I've been putting it off and putting it off every time

1:56 you've told me get into it, I'm like, I don't know.

1:58 I don't know that. And I think I did attempt season

2:00 1 like 3 or 4 times and I was. Like I might have as well.

2:03 No, I don't get it. Like I'm not not vibing.

2:05 I don't know whether it was, I don't know whether it was the

2:08 the Mormon Wives one that kind of got me going.

2:11 Maybe I do need to check out? Salt Lake City because if this.

2:13 Is a bit of the vibe of what goes on in Salt Lake City, then

2:16 maybe I'll like that, that series.

2:18 So I think that really pushed me over the edge of trying it.

2:22 Yes, I think I pushed past Season 1 and.

2:24 Holy yeah, from season 2 it gets really good.

2:26 So if you if you're time pressed, start at season 2 and

2:30 you won't. Yeah, you won't miss anything.

2:31 No, no, absolutely. But then don't miss a thing from

2:34 that point. On Yeah.

2:35 So you're up to the start of Season 5 now.

2:37 Yeah, yeah, I've watched all the way through and like literally

2:39 last night I finished Season 4, which is, and now my machine's

2:44 dead, so I can't watch anymore until I can work out how to get

2:47 whatever, whatever streaming service I can get Season 5 on.

2:52 Will be your next investor. My next investor yeah, because

2:54 the there's the my current device for whatever reason does

2:57 not support the services that have yeah, OK on it other other

3:02 housewives ones Yep 100%, but not that ones, which is really

3:06 annoying. So it must be.

3:07 It's a whole other thing to work out.

3:09 The Mormon church or something, I don't know.

3:10 The Mormon God striking down upon you?

3:12 Well, yeah, probably. But yeah, so that's really

3:15 distracted me this week from my typical time of researching for

3:19 this stuff. I have been helpful ever

3:21 watching. Really.

3:23 Yeah. Well, you had a deadline.

3:24 I understand deadlines. Yeah.

3:26 So I'm glad you got it done. Well done.

3:28 Hats off to you. And hats off to you for also

3:30 being able to research in the process.

3:32 Well. We'll see how we go.

3:33 We'll see how much I the. Team, I reckon, I reckon you'll

3:36 know more than you think. You know, as we always, as we

3:38 tend to do. Yeah.

3:40 This one was a really interesting one to research,

3:43 wasn't it? There's so many different

3:44 angles. So you'll you guys will know

3:46 from the episode title that we're talking about Aaron

3:48 Hernandez today. Before we get into it, though, I

3:51 do have a shout out for today. Yes.

3:54 My shout out is to Sky now. Sky is like, we don't know Sky

4:00 in our personal lives. No, she has bought us a coffee

4:03 if you guys wanna. Actually, she's bought us 2

4:04 coffees, 1 each. So thank you, Sky.

4:06 Sky, she has sent us these beautiful emails and messages.

4:10 She's commented on our episodes and like, I think she might be a

4:14 bit of a fan. And we really, really appreciate

4:16 that. I mean, I feel like there's the

4:18 obligation of people who have to listen to us, who we see every

4:21 day and we're like, oh, you listen to our podcast and like,

4:24 yeah, that's great episode. But it's like, I feel, I feel

4:30 like it's such a like a feather in our cap when somebody unknown

4:35 to us listens to us on a regular basis.

4:37 And we've had a few people reach out over the over the time to

4:41 let us know that they're loving it.

4:42 But thank you so much, Sky. Yes.

4:44 Thank you very much. Much appreciated.

4:46 Yeah. All right.

4:48 Are we ready to get into today's episode?

4:49 I think it's going to be a long 1, so I think we should probably

4:51 get going. We apologize now if we jump

4:53 around a little bit I guess, but.

4:55 The timeline on this is really complex, yes.

4:58 And we look, this is, you know, we try and keep our episodes to,

5:03 I don't know, an hour and a half if they've been lately.

5:05 Actually, we're going. To do 20 minute episodes.

5:08 Emma, I remember I was here. We barely even get through

5:11 chatting before we start in 20 minutes.

5:13 But there is a lot of information about this case, as

5:18 there are about most of the cases that we've done so far.

5:21 So if you want more information about something that we've maybe

5:25 only touched on or you want more detail about something, you can

5:28 go and do research. There is so, so, so, so, so much

5:32 out there about this case. We will list some of the, some

5:35 of our resources in our show notes, but literally like all we

5:39 do is Google stuff and figure out the best way to find out

5:43 what we what we're looking for. So if there's something in

5:46 particular that you wanna look into more, go right ahead.

5:48 Because otherwise I think we could do, you could like, I

5:51 mean, I listened to a long form podcast on this.

5:54 There was I think 6 episodes and it didn't even touch on multiple

5:58 aspects of this case. This is the thing, there's so

6:00 many avenues you can go down with this case.

6:02 Yeah. So if there's a particular Ave.

6:04 that we maybe haven't gone down much that you could you wanna

6:06 look into, it's tons out. There, there will be something

6:09 out there. Yeah.

6:10 So we're just trying to do like a bit of a summary and yeah, and

6:13 touch on all of the main points and go from there.

6:15 So today we are talking about Aaron Joseph Hernandez who was

6:19 born on the 6th of November in 1989.

6:23 He was born in Bristol, CT which was a really, really small city

6:28 or town in Connecticut. Yeah, his ESPN started.

6:32 Oh, I did not not see. Look at you with the facts.

6:34 You you're saying you didn't get much research done, but look at

6:37 you go. His mum is Terry Valentine

6:42 Hernandez, and his dad's name was Dennis Hernandez.

6:46 And he has an older brother named DJ Hernandez or Dennis

6:51 Jonathan Hernandez. He actually goes by Jonathan.

6:54 He goes by Jonathan. Now as a child he went by DJ.

6:57 So, yeah, you, you've sort of hear him referred to as both

7:02 their parents. Relationship is interesting.

7:05 And I'm, I'm, I'm thinking we could probably start there.

7:08 Yeah. They were married twice.

7:10 They were married in 1986, divorced in 1991 and then

7:14 remarried in 1996. They had a really sort of

7:18 volatile relationship. We're both also known to police.

7:22 Yes, dad. His dad Dennis was arrested for

7:26 drug affiliated circumstances. Drug I think dealing if not

7:31 carrying and then mum. I think it was both.

7:33 I think it was possession and use.

7:34 Yeah, right. So then Terry was also arrested

7:38 at one point for running a booking.

7:40 Yeah, she was investigated by the FBI.

7:43 Yeah. She was running it out of the

7:45 house. Yeah, there was a story Aaron

7:47 tells in a recording that was on a prison phone call that was

7:52 recorded where he discusses this incident with his mum.

7:54 And he's like, I remember coming home from school.

7:56 I was 11 years old. Yeah.

7:58 I walk in and bam, there's the FBI at my sitting at my kitchen

8:01 table. Yeah.

8:03 Crazy. This kind of forms a bit of an

8:05 idea of what their childhood was like.

8:07 So Mum worked as a secretary at Bristol High.

8:11 School, I think that sounds. Familiar and Dad worked as a

8:14 janitor at the other local high school, which was a much baller

8:19 high school, I believe. Yeah.

8:20 So I mean they were, they were both in gainful employment

8:24 throughout their, yeah, throughout the boys youth.

8:27 Dennis was a bit of a local celebrity and so in some ways

8:29 too, for his his ability in football, yeah.

8:32 And he did very well. More local like that was I.

8:35 Think Talent played college football for U Conn, So for the

8:38 University of Connecticut, Yeah. And was he was known as the

8:41 king? Did you say that in his

8:44 yearbook? So because he was.

8:46 So, I mean, I guess American football is so revered.

8:51 And to be talented in that arena, especially at these

8:54 bigger universities who have these massive teams, you are

8:59 almost like a God or a king if you're really successful.

9:02 So he went to UConn, which is the University of Connecticut.

9:06 I don't know that he ever actually graduated.

9:08 He's not. His football career certainly

9:09 didn't progress. This is Dennis I'm talking

9:12 about. His football career didn't

9:13 progress beyond college football.

9:16 And sort of as things went on, I believe his drug charge came

9:19 around that time. I don't know if he was sort of

9:22 removed from the university because of the drug charges.

9:25 I'm not quite sure, but I couldn't find anything.

9:27 It was a Yeah, But it was around that time that he ended up

9:30 taking this job as a janitor and.

9:32 And that's kind of the way his life went.

9:34 And I think he was. That wasn't the only incident of

9:39 drug trafficking and perception. That he had that, that

9:42 continued. But yeah, but he was very

9:44 talented footballer and yeah, obviously skills got passed on

9:47 to his kids and, and from all accounts he was very keen on his

9:52 children becoming amazing. Footballers, well, amazing at

9:55 any sport, I think. I think he certainly encouraged

9:58 football, but basketball was up there for both of them as well.

10:01 Yeah, right. There's, you know, Aaron, when

10:04 he was at high school, he played basketball and football.

10:08 And there's an interview with one of his high school

10:12 basketball coaches in one of the documentaries I watched.

10:16 And his basketball coach says, you know, he was a head taller

10:19 than everyone. Oh, he sorry.

10:21 It might have even been his football coach, actually, but he

10:23 was a head taller than everyone. Yeah.

10:25 He was a step or two faster than everyone.

10:27 He was a big boy, like he was very broad and muscular and like

10:33 he even when there are photos of him in high school.

10:37 So he would have been I think 15 that one of the photos that I

10:41 saw. I'll see if we can actually pop

10:42 it on our socials. He looks like a man.

10:45 He's 15 years old. Yeah.

10:47 Yeah, he definitely developed very early.

10:50 Yeah. And he was so tall, and you see,

10:52 like, prom photos of his. Yeah.

10:55 And he is literally a head and shoulders above all of his

10:57 peers. And some of those kids are

10:59 footballers, too. That's right.

11:00 And they're very physical and very athletic.

11:03 Yeah. And yet he still towers above

11:06 them. Almost like he was built for it.

11:08 Like it just literally built for what he what he ended up doing

11:11 in terms of football. That's it, yeah.

11:13 Yeah. So he excelled in football and

11:18 he so originally because his father had attended UConn and

11:23 his brother was there as well on a football scholarship as well.

11:27 The inference was basically that, you know, I guess the idea

11:32 was that eventually Aaron would follow in those same footsteps

11:36 and but there was a lot that sort of happened around this

11:39 time. Dennis went in for a routine

11:43 hernia operation and he there were complications in that

11:48 surgery. And two days after, after he

11:52 attended, like he was in hospital for the surgery, he

11:56 actually passed away. Yeah.

11:57 So a routine surgery, that's obviously something's gone

12:00 really wrong there. And he's passed away.

12:03 Aaron was 16 at the time. So that's a really tough time of

12:08 life to be going through. I mean, it would be horrific at

12:11 any age. But for Aaron, this was, he was

12:15 developing his, well, what was to be his career.

12:18 And this was something his father had pushed him into.

12:21 Yeah, something his father. There was absolutely an

12:24 expectation, wasn't there? Yeah.

12:25 Well, there was a lot, I mean, a lot has come out around his

12:28 childhood in terms of his dad since, particularly around

12:31 physical abuse that occurred and verbal abuse, all those sorts of

12:34 things that sounded pretty horrific.

12:36 It sounds like his childhood was nothing but unbelievably rough

12:40 and. Volatile like, yeah.

12:41 And but he loved his dad. And this is the thing that I

12:44 mean, kids are they're, they're innate to loving their parents

12:48 no matter what they do to them. It's like this, you know,

12:50 unconditional love. But does, I mean, and his

12:53 brother has spoken about that. He wrote a book as well that's

12:56 got a fair bit in there about what happened, what their

12:58 childhood was like. And there was a lot of abuse.

13:01 A lot of violence like apparently like incredibly

13:04 aggressive macho type violence. And it wasn't only perpetrated

13:10 on Jonathan and Aaron, it was perpetrated against their mum

13:13 as. Well, but then there was also

13:15 further to that, there are allegations that there was a

13:19 sexual assault on Aaron. I can only find out from like,

13:24 from what's out there is that it was an older boy.

13:27 Yeah. So no mention of like it being

13:29 of who it was. Specifically, I've, I've, yeah.

13:32 So the only thing I was able to find out, and this is

13:34 unsubstantiated because nobody from the family and certainly

13:38 Aaron never spoke about it, named, never named the person,

13:42 but I have read somewhere that it was a babysitter who was

13:45 coming into the home. So an older male babysitter, I

13:48 don't believe up from what I could gather, not related to the

13:53 boys. But yeah, there's certainly the

13:56 inference that this person perpetrated sexual violence

13:59 against. And Jonathan like backs that

14:01 claim. It's not just Aaron who said it.

14:04 His brother certainly has come out and said the same thing that

14:06 he was, that it was when he was six years of age that it

14:10 occurred. So it sounds as though I think

14:13 that's what happened. I.

14:15 Certainly. Believe what what's been put out

14:17 there. So yeah, it's I mean, so he's

14:19 had a freaking shit ass childhood really in a lot of

14:23 ways. And so to become to come out of

14:24 that and be like, you know, so good at this sport that could

14:30 put him on a track to a far better life.

14:33 It sounds like he's getting himself out.

14:36 Doesn't. It it really does.

14:37 Yeah, he so he's offered this like an opportunity to go to

14:42 UConn. He also around and he's sort of

14:46 given verbal confirmation to the coach of UConn that that would

14:49 be something he's interested in. But then his dad has passed away

14:53 around this time and Aaron's kind of gone a little bit rogue

14:57 and he has had offers from multiple universities and he

15:01 decides or Florida University fly him out to have a look

15:05 around. And while he's there, he makes a

15:07 decision without discussing it with any of his family members.

15:10 You know, he's a 16 year old boy at this point.

15:13 He decides he's gonna go to the University of Florida.

15:16 But The thing is, they want him early.

15:19 So what they do is they they petition the principle of his

15:24 high school to allow him to do extra credit in order to

15:30 graduate early from high school. Now, in order to get so the the

15:33 principal says he was really conflicted about whether or not

15:36 to allow him to do this, but ultimately he decided that he

15:40 would allow it. Well, in order that was.

15:43 Academically, he was doing really well too.

15:45 He was doing OK. I don't think he was like a

15:47 raging academic some. Sort of, no.

15:49 He got some sort of award for doing quite well at school at

15:52 like at one point, OK, I don't know what they call it.

15:55 It was like a ducks or something like.

15:58 AI didn't think he was that academic.

16:00 Yeah, no, because Shana, his girlfriend, actually got the

16:02 same award like a like the following year.

16:04 She was a year behind him and yeah, they both got these awards

16:08 for. Did he get it because he was

16:09 athletic? Though, so maybe.

16:11 Because I don't know that he was all that academic.

16:13 Yeah, I know. I just sort of read into it kind

16:15 of going, OK, well, he's got some bright, some smarts got got

16:18 this incredible talent. Maybe it was his popularity type

16:20 thing. I don't know.

16:20 I don't know. But so he's, you know, he's

16:25 doing what he needs to do, but in order to get the extra

16:28 credits to pass high school, because obviously you need a

16:31 certain amount in order to pass, they let him do subjects like

16:37 gardening, right? And what was there was another

16:41 one that was just as ridiculous and he got as in those so he

16:44 could pass and and get the credit to go to university

16:46 early. The reason?

16:47 Shove and dirt. Yeah, you could.

16:51 The reason that the that Florida Uni wanted him early is because

16:55 they wanted him to basically start in their spring season and

17:00 he'd be like basically six months ahead of any other

17:02 recruit. He'd learn all the plays, he'd

17:05 train with the team they'd be and he was a a tight end.

17:09 So he was a cat you. Sounded like you know what

17:11 you're talking about there. Yeah, because I do.

17:14 OK, OK. Oh, I got into tight ends can.

17:18 You repeat that. No, I'm not going to.

17:21 You can. You can clip that one out if you

17:23 want I. Will I will be?

17:26 Who else? Who is the most famous tight end

17:28 You know there's only. One Aaron Hernandez.

17:31 No, dude. Oh, Travis.

17:32 Kelsey is Travis. Kelsey, Travis.

17:34 Kelsey is a tight end. OK, cool.

17:36 Well, yeah, he is. Yeah, he is.

17:40 Oh my God, we, we can't. We can't keep doing that.

17:43 Oh, we could, but we can't. So Travis Kelsey is the only

17:46 other American footballer whose name I know.

17:48 Well, that I only There's one other that I know that also

17:50 comes slightly into this story. Tom Brady.

17:53 Tom Brady. Yes.

17:54 Yes, I'll make he is gorgeous. Because he's more, I guess, our

17:59 age bracket maybe. Yeah, that's true.

18:00 Oh yeah, absolutely. He's our age.

18:02 I mean, because when he married Bundchen and stuff, it was like

18:04 so big deal. And so like, it's like he's

18:06 like, well, it's Kelsey Early. It really isn't.

18:10 It's a repeat of that a little bit.

18:12 Totally. I mean of they're both dream

18:14 boats. Yeah, but it's all I know about

18:15 football in America is. Yeah, actually, you know what

18:17 they were hard saying. So Travis Kelsey is in the same

18:21 position, the tight end for the Kansas City Chiefs as to what

18:28 You know, the position that Aaron Hernandez played most

18:32 commonly, just sort of. Side note, did you know there's

18:34 a Hallmark movie that's come out of the Kelsey Taylor Swift

18:38 romance I know called like Chief of Love or something?

18:42 Why have you been holding out? When did you find this?

18:44 Out. No, I don't even know where I

18:45 had that in my brain, but it yeah, I need to get into it and

18:48 find it. All right, well, let's schedule

18:49 in a movie night totally all over that.

18:54 So, OK, I'm it. All I know is I had to look up

18:58 what a tight end even is, but it is an offensive position.

19:01 They catch, don't. They and they catch balls.

19:03 They catch balls, yeah, and then they score touchdowns, but turns

19:06 out you don't actually have to touch the ball down.

19:08 You can just run over a line. I I watched a fair bit of

19:11 American football. For those who don't know, I'm.

19:13 Looking completely baffled by that touchdown means you touch.

19:17 I don't know, but maybe your legs touching over the line and

19:19 if you're holding the ball that counts.

19:21 I really don't know. If anybody knows, feel free to

19:24 drop us a line and then we'll explain AFL to you.

19:28 Oh well. That we can do.

19:29 That we can do. Anyway, so he's this, this tight

19:34 end and that was really like, I think it's a really prominent

19:39 position. So, you know, you've got your

19:40 quarterbacks and your tight ends, and apparently they work

19:42 really well together. Everyone wants a drinking game.

19:44 Just play this section and drink every time you hear the word

19:46 tight end. Hey, good one.

19:49 Love that. Love that for all of you who are

19:51 going to try it. Yeah.

19:52 OK, so he's at the universe. He's decided to go to the

19:55 University of Florida. The their NFL team is are called

19:59 the Gators. Now we look at our universities

20:05 and they might have sporting teams.

20:07 I have absolutely no idea. I'm sure they do.

20:09 Ours is so different. But it's nothing.

20:10 It's yeah, you don't hear about them.

20:11 The Gators stadium in Florida, yeah, holds more people than the

20:18 whole Township that he grew up in.

20:20 Oh my. God.

20:22 In one stadium. That's insane.

20:23 Isn't that insane? So he's gone from this small

20:27 town. Yeah, where?

20:28 I mean, the apparently the University of Connecticut,

20:31 they've got a really big arena and all that sort of stuff as

20:34 well. They're they're also in this pro

20:35 level college football arena. Yep.

20:38 But the Gators are on another level.

20:40 They're a top three team or something.

20:42 Yeah. If you have you seen any vision

20:45 of it? It is inside the amount of

20:46 people. The bleachers go as far back.

20:49 You can't even see the people right at the top.

20:51 It's worse than the MCG. Wow.

20:52 Because I mean, our MCG is considered rather large like so

20:55 if it's a. 100 odd 1000 people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:58 Crazy. Wow, crazy stuff.

21:00 Yeah. And I think that's not even as

21:01 high as you can get in terms of. It's the levels of.

21:04 Well, then you've got the NFL above that.

21:06 So these coaches in these colleges, they can earn up to $8

21:10 million a year a season just for being a college football.

21:15 That's how. But this is the level I'm

21:17 talking about. So now I'm thinking we're Salt

21:20 Lake City Real Housewives. So coach on that.

21:22 Just Jen Shaw's husband did. He coached college football,

21:26 didn't he? He.

21:27 Well, he was a recruiter for college football now.

21:29 I actually looked into this too because sorry side.

21:31 Note I was. Just, well, I was just like,

21:33 curious then, OK, yeah. If a coach earns 8 million, how

21:36 much do all of the other staff earn?

21:37 And how much money does this actually bring in?

21:39 It can bring in hundreds of millions of dollars to the

21:41 university for most of these top tier universities, yeah, it is

21:47 this their primary source of income, not student fees, not it

21:51 is I'm. Guessing the players don't get

21:52 paid it. They do.

21:54 They do get, Yeah, they do get paid.

21:55 And they're also allowed to take on certain sponsorships.

21:58 Yeah, right. So they can earn an income that

22:01 way, too. OK.

22:02 But it's not like they're earning NFL money.

22:03 No, no, no, no, no. They also get all of their

22:06 college tuition paid for. But you know, again, they're

22:09 passing. They've got to meet.

22:10 Another criteria I'm guessing to like to.

22:12 Oh yeah, but they they can do whatever they want pretty much.

22:15 And they just status exactly. They just get ticked off and get

22:18 A's and oh don't get. Me started.

22:19 That's a whole other Ave. we can go down as well.

22:21 Like we probably can't though today.

22:23 Today. But that is really problematic.

22:26 Yeah, we've actually talked about doing a an episode on like

22:30 the college admissions scandals in the US We might do that down

22:33 the track somewhere. So he is.

22:37 Aaron is amazing. He's they.

22:41 He is the number. He's I think in his first.

22:44 No, sorry, in his second year of college football, he is named

22:47 the number one tight end, you know, So he's ranked really

22:52 well. Yeah, they're starting to look

22:55 at him for NFL sides. I think this is just something

22:59 that NFL teams do. They're constantly ascending

23:01 their recruiters and whatever around to watch all of these

23:04 games. I mean, there's huge money in

23:05 this, so it makes sense that they would start to look many,

23:09 many years in advance of who they would want in their team.

23:12 Yeah, but around this time Aaron really starts getting involved

23:17 in some shit himself and kind of really taints his image in

23:23 relation to prospective clubs. Yep.

23:30 So whilst he's at the Gators, there was he was actually

23:32 assigned to a more senior player when he was in younger coming

23:35 through because he was younger than all of them coming through.

23:37 And this other guy's come out and spoken about it in that he

23:40 was sort of tagged along with him and gone out.

23:44 Particularly they wouldn't he wanted to go to nightclubs and

23:46 things like that. And he when they were out and

23:48 about, things would happen like where, you know, he'd get

23:51 someone had knock him, someone had, you know, just upset him

23:53 somehow, like very quickly, Aaron would jump to quite

23:56 aggressive behavior and a number of occasions this guy had to

23:59 sort of like try and calm him down and remove him from

24:01 situations. But on one particular night,

24:04 there is an accusation there that potentially he shot at a

24:08 couple of people one night when after a nightclub incident.

24:12 So there's lots of that going on in the background.

24:15 It was also documented by the scouts going out and checking,

24:18 you know, in on him and because I was just like he was very much

24:21 being looked at by the NFL. There was one report that came

24:24 out saying that the notes on it were self esteem quite low, not

24:28 well adjusted emotionally, not well adjusted emotionally, not

24:33 happy moods, unpredictable, not stable.

24:36 Doesn't take much to set him off.

24:38 So these were really damning, kind of.

24:40 Reports. I saw that report, yeah.

24:42 And what I found interesting was, I mean, obviously all of

24:46 his athletic abilities, which are in the same report, were

24:48 like 10 plus plus plus plus plus off the chart.

24:51 Yeah. And then they've got his, you

24:53 know, his personality and attitude and.

24:56 There was a demeanor. He actually did a personality

24:59 test at one stage. Again by the NFL, they go this

25:01 far like, which I'm impressed with.

25:02 I was impressed finding out all of that, of how they really do.

25:05 They do background. Checks, absolutely.

25:08 And this personality test that he did, he came out, he scored a

25:11 one for social maturity. Oh, that's interesting.

25:14 Yeah. So I mean, I mean it says so

25:15 many red flags there and so, yeah.

25:17 So it was very interesting to see that that's what they.

25:19 But then they still like, I think they've still obviously

25:22 weighted his athletic ability way, no.

25:24 They didn't. Well, because they all said no.

25:27 They all said no until they got to the fourth round.

25:30 No. So what happened there was so

25:32 the Boston, the Patriots are really well known apparently for

25:36 taking on players that have had trouble.

25:39 And they seem to have a system that kind of works to put they

25:42 get these players back on track. So Aaron Hernandez was aware of

25:47 this. And so he wrote a letter to the

25:51 Patriots saying I take accountability for all my

25:54 actions. I you know, I understand this is

25:56 a big a big risk for you to take on me.

25:58 And I'm going to do this. And if you if I do step out of

26:01 line, you can take back this money and that money.

26:04 And like he really hate this letter was very detailed.

26:08 He, he, this is where I sort of kind of was getting with that

26:11 little bit of he has some intelligence.

26:13 His manager wrote the letter. Oh, no, sorry, sorry.

26:16 Oh, now I'm really annoyed. I thought he wrote it.

26:19 No. I'm sorry, his manager wrote the

26:21 letter. But anyway, the letter was very

26:22 well written and it did win them over that there was.

26:25 It was a good. Move.

26:26 It was a very, it was the only way, the only way it was going

26:28 to be able to get there because they were all saying no, Yeah.

26:30 So we ended up being picked up 113th in the draft.

26:33 Yeah, in the fourth round, yeah. So he was, he should have been

26:36 the number one. Draft, yes, in his ability he

26:38 was number one draft pick, although I mean we know as well

26:41 in terms of AFL football, you can be picked up number one and

26:44 not go anywhere. You know, it doesn't necessarily

26:46 mean that you're going to be the greatest.

26:47 Ever. You still need to be developed

26:49 and you still need to fit in within the team.

26:51 And, yeah, I mean, I guess as an NFL footballer, you're putting

26:54 so much money into these players, yeah, that you want to

26:57 be sure that they're the right mix and the right fit.

26:59 So just because you're the number one draft pick might not

27:02 mean you're the best for that team or whatever.

27:04 But I mean, the fact that his ability was that of somebody who

27:07 could have been their number one.

27:08 Yeah. And he was #113 I mean, as I was

27:12 saying, they've looked into his background as well.

27:15 They would have known that his parents had convictions.

27:17 Yeah. They would have known that he

27:18 had a drug history and that he'd had, although he'd never been

27:23 arrested for any of the those incidents that you were talking

27:26 about where he was aggressive towards other people.

27:29 I feel like they would have just had to have spoken to a few

27:31 friends and whatever to glean all of that information.

27:34 So they would have had a pretty good and as you said, all of the

27:37 personality tests and stuff, they would have had a pretty

27:39 good picture of what they were taking on.

27:41 Yeah, yeah, big time. But they decided, as in the New

27:44 England Patriots decided to take him on anyway.

27:47 So he was actually their second pick for a tight end.

27:51 Yeah. They had another man whose

27:54 surname begins with AG Gronkowski, I think, or

27:56 something like that. He.

27:58 I haven't written it down. I'm sorry if I've absolutely

28:01 butchered that. I know it began with.

28:02 Any others that I'll probably butcher later?

28:04 He he was their number one, but you know, and and then therefore

28:09 he actually started number one. Once they started playing, he

28:12 was their go to tight end. Yeah, real quick.

28:14 Yeah, very fast. But then he got injured and

28:19 Aaron started playing a little bit more time and then he just

28:22 took off. Like his ability outshone any of

28:25 the other that was going on. And so he got all these.

28:27 He was #1 rookie on pretty much everything to anything and

28:30 anything like for rookies in terms of, you know, since

28:34 records were being made of what a tight end rookie can achieve,

28:37 he achieved the top. He was basically.

28:40 And so he was picked up in 2010. So between 2010 and 20, 2012,

28:45 basically, he was considered a person who was not only had many

28:50 years of football life left in him, sort of stuff that he was

28:53 going to be the biggest and best thing ever and already was

28:56 considered and well known name in NFL football.

29:00 Yeah, very quickly. I mean, he was catching the ball

29:03 that, you know, Tom Brady was kicking to him.

29:05 I'm guess you're throwing, throwing, throwing.

29:06 Throw it, Yeah. You know, I mean, to catch a

29:10 ball from Tom Brady. I mean, I'd like to do that, I

29:12 reckon, yeah. I could go that.

29:17 Yeah, so I mean, he's he's got a great person throwing it to him,

29:20 but he's hitting all the the the milestones and that of what a

29:24 rookie should that's and could it's amazing.

29:26 And after his rookie year, he was signed on a permanent

29:31 contract with the New England Patriots.

29:34 Yeah, the contract was worth 40, just under $41 million over.

29:39 I've seen four and five years written, so I'm not quite sure

29:43 which one it is. Yeah, he was 22 years old at the

29:46 time and he also received a 12 and a half million dollar

29:49 signing bonus. Yeah.

29:52 That's money that is uncomprendable.

29:55 It's an extraordinary amount of money for a 22 year old to be

30:00 taking on. He had a manager who I think he

30:03 put a lot of faith and trust in. His manager's name was Brian

30:07 Murphy. And he, I think Brian had been

30:10 with him from, like, his college days and had really gotten him,

30:15 like he'd written this letter and he'd really, you know,

30:17 helped Aaron get to where he was.

30:19 Yeah, but he also says that he had his reservations and I.

30:24 Forget how to, by the sounds of things.

30:26 Like, yeah, I mean he, but The thing is Brian Murphy had a

30:29 fiscal interest in what was happening, yes, with Aaron.

30:36 So I don't know whether his intentions were 100% pure and he

30:41 really did have Aaron's best interest.

30:42 But he certainly wants his 10% cut or probably 20% cut that he

30:45 was going to make. I mean, if anyone would, yeah.

30:48 I mean, that's enough for a lifetime, too.

30:50 So I mean, if he's going to stuff up, he's going to lose all

30:53 that. Yeah.

30:53 Yeah. But yeah, I mean, obviously what

30:57 those those behaviors were that we were starting to see back in

31:00 Florida certainly carried over with him once he went to the

31:03 Patriots, he just seemed to seek out bad behaviour.

31:08 I'm. Bad he was, he was drawn to it.

31:11 Very much drawn to it. And one of his colleagues in the

31:15 on the team was quoted as saying that he got to know Aaron really

31:19 quite well really when he first arrived.

31:21 And that they were standing at their lockers and whatever and

31:24 chatting, getting to know each other and decided to exchange

31:26 phone numbers. And when he did that with Aaron,

31:29 Aaron said to him, if you ever need me, if anything mate, you

31:32 let me know. But if you fuck me over, I will

31:35 kill you. Oh.

31:38 So that that kind of for this guy was like, what the hell,

31:41 What just happened? Like it really threw him as to

31:44 who this guy was. Have you heard of this thing

31:46 that they called the Patriot Way?

31:48 No, they explained this in one of the podcasts I was listening

31:51 to. And I think it probably you were

31:53 kind of alluding to it before, that the Patriots take on these

31:56 certain types of players who, OK, may have a troubled past or

32:00 may have some difficulties in their lives, and they put them

32:03 through this essentially like a ball.

32:05 Like a big can. And they, so everything they do

32:08 like their, their motto then is like, we do it the Patriot way.

32:12 And I've, I've read that what you were just talking about then

32:16 with that, with that teammate. And he says in that he's like,

32:20 well, that wasn't the Patriot way.

32:22 That's that's not the attitude we had.

32:24 So it actually went against our core team beliefs.

32:28 And Aaron was always like that. Yeah, he'd say what he had to

32:31 say to the coach and to the owner of the well, who he had a

32:34 very. Charismatic, shall we say?

32:36 Hey, there's that. There's that word again.

32:40 Yeah, because I mean, the coach of the Patriots.

32:43 Now this is another name that like, I mean, I don't we've

32:45 fully admitted we don't know much about NFL.

32:47 But the name Belichick, Yeah, I've heard that yet they

32:49 mentioned. And I don't didn't really know

32:52 why I knew that name until we sort of got into it and went,

32:54 oh, he's clearly like a coach that had ability to coach

32:58 players who had come from troubled past or whatever.

33:01 Yeah. So this Belichick was the coach

33:03 and he was on Aaron's case certainly, and very much was

33:08 trying to get Aaron back on track and focusing on the game,

33:11 but just didn't seem to hold water for anyone.

33:14 Got to do that. I feel like Aaron respected him

33:16 as a coach and but he did things for.

33:19 That half of his brain that's. It that's what I'm saying, like

33:22 outside of sight, though we did have a split personality we'll

33:26 get into. That.

33:29 So Aaron's girlfriend and slash fiance was Shayana Jenkins.

33:35 She they met in I think primary school and dated during high

33:40 school. They split up while Aaron was at

33:43 the University of Florida, and they sort of reconnected once

33:47 he'd been drafted in the NFL. On and off a bit.

33:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they obviously got back

33:53 together at some point during his early NFL career and bought

33:59 a house together. And she fell pregnant.

34:02 They fell pregnant with a little daughter, Avielle, who was born

34:05 on Aaron's birthday. Oh.

34:07 You're joking. I didn't notice that, no.

34:08 He was they were born on the same day, gorgeous.

34:11 So they, you know, they they really started to form or

34:15 Shayana certainly was building this home for them.

34:17 Yeah. And he?

34:19 Proposed to her, I think before she gave birth.

34:21 Just before, yeah. Yeah, just before she gave

34:23 birth. So they.

34:24 Were hitting on this on the outside, you could see this

34:27 amazing career that he's looking at in front of you.

34:29 Incredible. Life.

34:30 They were built. From all accounts, like Shanna,

34:32 like the praise from other people on the around who she was

34:35 as a person, that she was a beautiful inside and out person.

34:39 He's got this beautiful baby they're getting getting it

34:42 married. If you look at it from the

34:44 outside in, like if you look at it from the outside, it looks

34:47 like they've got this incredible life and it's like what you

34:50 would dream, you know, they've got all this money.

34:53 They've got an A stunning, like absolutely stunning home in a

34:57 really beautiful area. They've got a new little baby

35:01 girl. They've got the world is their

35:04 Royster. But during this time,

35:07 unfortunately, well, so Shayana's sister.

35:14 Shania. Shania, thank you.

35:17 Don't shy Anna. I.

35:18 Can't imagine being mum trying to yell those names out when

35:20 you're telling them off when they were.

35:21 Kids, I get, I get I'm bad enough.

35:23 I've got Lucas and my nephew's name is Louis.

35:27 Yeah, I get them little little tongue tied yelling out to them

35:31 like that's bad enough. And one's my nephew.

35:33 I call my kids a dog's name all the time.

35:35 Like I can't imagine them being that like like similar names.

35:38 Even having them written down in front of me is getting me.

35:41 Yeah yeah. Teased up.

35:43 Uh huh. So shy.

35:46 Anna's sister Shanaya was dating a man by the name of Odin Lloyd.

35:51 Yeah, Shanaya is a very, very impressive young woman in her

35:58 own right. Very.

36:00 She was studying law. She is, so she does a lot of

36:05 like she was already now I think things have changed a lot for

36:08 her, but she was doing pro bono work.

36:11 She's like really into her community service and really

36:14 trying to better her town and the people around her.

36:18 And she was a very, you know, very caring and giving person.

36:22 Mm hmm. And she was in a relationship

36:24 with a man named Odin Lloyd. He was born on the 14th of

36:27 November in 1985. And he was a semi professional

36:31 NFL player for the Boston Bandit.

36:34 Yeah, So he was a very talented football as well.

36:37 And but unfortunately his path had been a little bit disrupted

36:40 in terms of his steps onto got playing Pro Football.

36:44 And so he had gone through all the ranks similar to Aaron gone

36:47 into college and playing very good quality college football.

36:50 However, unfortunately he couldn't financially support

36:54 himself and and wasn't eligible, wasn't able to access financial

36:58 assistance. And so I had to unfortunately

37:03 drop out, drop out of his college.

37:05 And that meant that it doesn't mean you can't then make it to

37:08 the NFL, but it's very much the path of like 95% of the the way

37:13 you get to NFL level. So he was playing semi Pro

37:16 Football at this stage, which is kind of that next level down

37:19 that he he he was, and he was hoping to get picked up by NFL

37:23 still, he was really hoping that would be the next step for him.

37:25 So finding out that your new girlfriend's sister is dating

37:29 Aaron Hernandez, what a great contact for him to be able to

37:33 then potentially meet someone who might be able to come and

37:35 have a look at him or, you know, and just or just be part of that

37:38 world. Even.

37:38 I'm guessing that something that he was aspiring to he'd had a

37:42 pretty rough. Childhood he had a.

37:44 Really rough child. I think a lot of ways similar to

37:45 Aaron and the. Very much so.

37:47 I mean, he didn't have a dad in the picture, I don't think.

37:50 He had two sisters and his mum was a single mum and had worked

37:55 really, really hard. She's a, she's a really sweet

37:57 woman, isn't she? Isn't she gorgeous?

37:59 Yeah, she's just so lovely. Go and have a look at an

38:02 interview with her. She's she's so, so sweet.

38:07 And incredibly. Yeah, yeah.

38:11 Odin unfortunately in associating with Aaron on the

38:19 17th of June in 2013, Aaron sent him a text message I think that

38:24 basically said, hey, let's meet up, I need to kind of catch up

38:29 with you. And Aaron turns up to Odin's

38:33 house well. His two mates actually turned up

38:35 to pick him up I think. Was Aaron not in that car?

38:38 Or maybe he was in the car. I think he was.

38:41 At that point I thought so they they've.

38:42 Rented a car, yes, and gone to pick Odin up.

38:49 Over the course of that night it comes to be that Odin is

38:54 murdered and callously murdered. Yeah, he's shot 6 times and left

39:05 in a deserted like building site.

39:08 Yeah, it's like a industrial kind of area and I think there

39:11 was like a quarry of sorts, right?

39:13 Because there's there's some buildings around from photos

39:15 I've seen but there's nothing like where his body was left was

39:18 like a rubble. Based.

39:20 Yeah, it was some sort of pit of something that was near like

39:22 this industrial site. Yeah.

39:24 So his body was found unfortunately, by a fairly young

39:27 kid who was he'd been at the gym and he was running home from the

39:30 gym via this area to his house at about 5:30 in the afternoon,

39:34 in the evening and stumbled across unfortunately a dead body

39:38 to which he obviously immediately reported to the

39:40 police. Yeah, which it was unfortunately

39:43 Odin Lloyd was there on the ground dead.

39:47 So the police obviously came to the scene pretty quickly.

39:50 They found on the body a a key to a rental car.

39:57 A number of other things were found near the body and on the

39:58 body, one being a joint. There was also a marijuana

40:03 joint. There was also I think some

40:05 bubble gum, some blue, blue bubble gum.

40:08 Yep. They're fairly key to being able

40:10 to marry up to then who was there at the scene later on.

40:14 So it didn't take long for the police to then hunt down where

40:17 this rental car, particularly that that where and What Car

40:19 that was and then had been rented out by none other than

40:23 Aaron Hernandez. So there was and then they were

40:27 able to find CCTV footage of the area as well, which again Aaron

40:32 Hernandez was seen on that footage.

40:34 That's right. So they can actually see on the

40:37 neighbours CCTV footage from Odin Lloyd's house.

40:40 So I think it's the neighbour from across the road.

40:42 Yeah, they can see that they pick him up at about, was it

40:47 something about 2:30 in the morning?

40:49 I think they've. Picked him up when they picked

40:50 him up, yeah. Around that time, Odin sent 3

40:54 text messages to his sister in a fairly quick succession.

40:58 Yep, they were. I've got them here.

41:00 I'm just gonna I, I did write. Did I write it down?

41:03 I did write. But he basically said, do you

41:05 know who I'm with? She wrote back then, Oh, he

41:09 didn't, He wrote he. Didn't.

41:10 No, she wrote by Hello, Then he wrote NFL.

41:12 Yeah, she wrote. Who?

41:13 And then he came back with NFL just so you.

41:16 Know, just so you know, yeah. Now, OK, that's.

41:22 He's obviously felt something in order to have to send those text

41:25 messages. Yeah, hasn't he?

41:28 Why he got in that car, we will never know.

41:32 No, there's some. Some people have come out with

41:34 some theories, yeah. But it's it's really interesting

41:38 what went on there as to what the reason behind this

41:42 happening. There's there.

41:44 OK, let's let's get into that. Yeah, I think we should get into

41:47 that. All right, so the night before

41:50 and now, Odin didn't hang out with Aaron a lot, but so it was

41:55 he was kind of, I think, you know, he enjoyed spending time

41:58 with him. And we just don't know whether

41:59 Aaron enjoyed spending time with Odin, but Odin was out with him

42:03 at a nightclub. Whilst at the nightclub, Odin

42:06 bumped into some cousins of his. And so they were in kind of

42:10 another area where. And he was like, oh, but that's

42:12 my cousin's over there. So he's gone over to have a

42:13 drink with his cousins. At this point in time, Aaron

42:17 Andez was quite well known for doing PCP.

42:19 Yeah, which can give you quite hallucinations and things like

42:23 that, but quite paranoia, really.

42:25 And it was already noted by quite a number of the people

42:28 around Aaron that the paranoia had gotten pretty, pretty bad

42:30 with him. So he would got the Odin had

42:33 gone over to his cousins and what they were chatting and

42:35 whatever, having a couple of drinks together.

42:37 And it appears that maybe the cousins didn't like Odin hanging

42:42 out with with Aaron maybe or maybe just didn't like Aaron.

42:46 But there's or they may have just been kind of going that's

42:48 the NFL play. I don't like it.

42:50 And a little bit of pointing, maybe going on a little bit of

42:52 like gesturing in Aaron's direction the pot.

42:56 The thought is that maybe Aaron has taken quite offence to this.

43:00 So at the end of the night, that night, they've gone home and

43:06 Aaron's got really, really annoyed about this.

43:08 And that's when he's gone around and picked up Odin to say hey,

43:12 get in the car and he's gone and executed him.

43:16 Yeah, it's, it's, it's horrific. I mean, that that's, that's the

43:21 theory I've heard most bandied about as well.

43:24 Yeah, there is never an excuse to kill somebody, but that's

43:29 just. Doesn't.

43:31 Pathetic, yeah. Absolutely, yeah.

43:35 It's it, it defies logic. And I guess, I mean, if you're

43:38 looking at it from the lens of Aaron being in this drug fueled

43:41 stupor, yeah, people around him, because of who he was and the

43:44 celebrity that he was, they fed that, you know, nobody stood up

43:48 to him. He was a ringleader.

43:51 He was an alpha male. He was certainly a very blokey

43:54 bloke and a very masculine. And I'm not saying masculine in

43:58 that every man who's masculine is aggressive, but in that

44:02 really traditional aggressive alpha male type of persona, yes.

44:10 Because if we go, I mean, I don't know if we want to go back

44:12 or not from here at this point now, but this was certainly not

44:17 a a singular incident that had occurred that it was kind of out

44:20 of Aaron's personality. Yeah, there was certainly other

44:25 incidences prior to this that he had.

44:29 Don't No. Just say it.

44:30 No, say it. He.

44:31 Hasn't been convicted of these other things, yes, but there is

44:34 a fair bit of evidence out there to say that he was involved in

44:38 some way. Yeah, so he the what makes

44:40 referring to is that prior to the murder of Odin Lloyd, he was

44:45 implicated in and never convicted of the murder of like

44:51 a drive by shooting of two men who he'd also had an encounter

44:55 with at a club in which Stingley.

44:57 And an encounter which was. Like, well, they basically

45:01 bumped him and he knocked his drink, and they think that was

45:05 the motivation for him. Then getting in his car,

45:08 following them when they stopped at a stop sign or at a red

45:11 light, literally getting out of his car and shooting them point

45:14 blank. Yeah, both of them, yeah.

45:17 So, and with him that night on when that occurred is another

45:21 man named of the name of Alexander Bradley.

45:24 So then about a few months after that incident, Alexander Bradley

45:30 ends up being shot in the face. Through his eye, Through his.

45:34 Eye now IA could only he was left for dead.

45:37 Whoever did that, he was very lucky to survive it.

45:41 He did lose his eye and has a glass eye now and there's

45:45 thoughts that that was Aaron Hernandez did that to him

45:49 because there was talk around. He'd brought up this killing of

45:52 these other two blokes. So he was trying to tell him to

45:54 shut up either trying to tell him warn him to shut.

45:56 Up he was trying to kill him he. Shuts him up, yeah.

45:59 They don't shoot someone in the eye and think, oh, maybe they'll

46:02 survive. So because after that but.

46:04 Bradley has never. Yes, he has has.

46:07 He yes, yes, he has. Originally when he was he was

46:10 shot, he said don't know who did it, don't anything yes, right.

46:14 But when it came to the trial of so Aaron Hernandez was charged

46:19 with the for the murder of Daniel.

46:23 I'm gonna murder his name Daniel Diabro.

46:26 Diabro. Yeah.

46:27 And Sofiro Furtado. Yeah.

46:29 They were the two men that were killed in the car.

46:32 Yeah, in the drive by shooting. In 2012, 2012, yeah.

46:35 So Alexander Bradley, when that trial came to pass, he was the

46:41 key witness. He so he was already in jail for

46:44 about 5 years. He was put in jail for some drug

46:47 charges, I think it was. Yep.

46:48 No, no shooting up a shop. That was what he, what he.

46:51 Did he also had drug convictions for drug?

46:53 He did as well, but I think more so when he was in jail for at

46:55 that point in time was this shooting up of a OK, a shop of

46:59 sorts? Yep.

47:00 So he had fought, he was in jail for four to five years at that

47:02 point, but he had done a deal where he would testify at the

47:06 trial against Aaron Hernandez and come clean that and what to

47:10 say what he witnessed. And in that same process, then

47:14 Aaron Hernandez was also charged with basically trying to like

47:21 attempted murder of a witness, right, and tampering with a

47:25 witness to a crime. OK.

47:27 So not only that, he did also sue Aaron Hernandez at one point

47:32 for that as well. So he definitely can't he he

47:35 came forward saying it was Aaron, but at this point,

47:37 because he'd done a deal with the cops over it, the defence

47:42 claimed, well, he was. The defence attorney claimed

47:45 that Aaron Bradley was only Alexander Bradley was only in

47:47 this for himself and that that's all bullshit.

47:51 And he was actually saying that to get the deal.

47:53 Yeah, and it was Alexander Bradley who actually shot the

47:55 two guys and Aaron Hernandez was in the car, but that's it.

48:00 So, OK, very complicated. It is really, really.

48:03 Complicated, but yeah. So he certainly did come out and

48:06 say he did. That was Aaron Hernandez that

48:08 shot him. OK, But it was just that it

48:11 wasn't believed in that court that that's what happened.

48:14 But he had a very good defense. Attorney.

48:17 Oh, he had an amazing defense attorney, An amazing defense

48:20 attorney, yeah. On the night.

48:24 So, you know, on the night that Odin sort of going back to that.

48:27 Now, the next day, obviously, Odin's body is found.

48:31 The police then link the car key that was found with Odin's body

48:35 to Aaron Hernandez. So they actually go to Aaron's

48:37 house and execute the first search warrant there.

48:41 So prior to the the search warrant being executed though on

48:46 June 17th. Yep.

48:49 Aaron had hired cleaners to come through the house.

48:52 They were his permanent house cleaners that he got in on a on

48:55 an extra day, extra day and got them to, quote UN quote, scrub

49:00 the house. Yeah.

49:02 Not only that, he also destroyed his security system.

49:05 But didn't do a great job because he didn't destroy it

49:08 all. No, so they weren't able to get

49:10 the CZTV, but he did attempt to destroy it and broke his phone

49:13 up into pieces. Yeah, I mean.

49:16 Does that not scream guilt? It screams guilt.

49:18 It absolutely screams guilt. But what I find interesting

49:21 about what the police found was they found the CCTV footage.

49:24 So he destroyed the security system in that it would no

49:27 longer work. Yeah.

49:30 So the police have access to the CCTV footage that wasn't

49:35 destroyed in Aaron's, you know, attempt to get rid of any

49:40 evidence. And you can see that he comes

49:43 into his house on the night of the murder, and he's holding

49:46 something dark in the shape of a gun.

49:51 And claim it's an iPad. Yeah, I've never seen an iPad

49:55 look like a gun before. Or when Shyana is testifying,

50:01 testifying about that footage in court, they ask her, well, what

50:05 do you think it is? And she goes, oh, I don't know.

50:08 I don't know. We could couldn't possibly

50:10 speculate what that gun shaped item might be.

50:13 So they look at that. They also see that Aaron comes

50:17 home with the other two accomplices.

50:19 They are hugging each other and you know, they're all Bros.

50:23 You know, they're tapping each other on the back.

50:26 They're coming in. Because there's there's further

50:28 footage where he comes up from the basement and he's clearly

50:30 holding a gun. Yes.

50:32 And they But the defense claim that was because he was scared

50:36 of the other two boys, Ortiz and Wallace.

50:41 Yeah, but that's. But that's not true because

50:44 there's also CCTV footage where he's holding his daughter,

50:47 Aaron's holding his daughter, and he passes her to Ortiz.

50:51 Ortiz is lying on the couch and playing with his daughter on her

50:54 chest. On his chest, you wouldn't hand

50:58 your baby. Daughter to a man that you're

51:01 scared? To a man that you're scared of,

51:02 or nor would you have him in your house, lying on your couch.

51:05 And the other Wallace was in the kitchen.

51:07 You can see him? Yeah.

51:08 Like he was making himself at home.

51:09 There was No. They weren't scared of one

51:11 another. They were good friends.

51:13 It just does like totally unsettle me the whole idea even

51:17 of the three of them have been out doing their murdering and

51:20 now they've come home to play with the baby.

51:21 And their Bros, you know, it's it's horrible.

51:25 It is a whole another world. Aaron behaves like he's

51:29 untouchable. And you know what?

51:31 He actually has been getting away with stuff right from his

51:34 high school days when he was showing promise as a high school

51:37 footballer. So this is pre college.

51:40 A friend and a friend of his. He and a friend were both caught

51:45 smoking marijuana. His friend was the only one to

51:48 receive consequences because if Aaron had of received

51:52 consequences he wouldn't have been allowed to play for a

51:54 certain number of games and they needed him to win so they turned

51:58 a blind eye. The same thing happened in

52:00 college. He had these drug charges, he

52:02 had other things going against him and everyone turned a blind

52:06 eye he got. Suspended briefly, but that's

52:08 about it. Like.

52:09 I don't. But he was still allowed to play

52:11 football, I'm pretty sure. Yeah.

52:13 So he. Yeah.

52:14 And then he's at the New England Patriots and, you know, everyone

52:18 says he had there's there must have been some kind of split

52:23 personality type thing going on because he was great with his

52:27 teammates, kids and he was really part of the team and

52:31 really personable. And, you know, he goes out and

52:35 talks to school kids and, you know, he's trying to be a role

52:40 model. And he even says in an interview

52:43 that there aren't many Hispanic athletes in American football.

52:49 And so he as a as a Hispanic, because his daddy's Puerto

52:52 Rican. Yep.

52:53 He wants to be that for children.

52:56 He wants to be a Hispanic role model.

52:58 And yet you're going out and doing this shit.

53:00 Stop it. Don't say one thing and act in

53:03 another way because it's not OK. That's where.

53:07 I wonder if he actually, I don't know, I mean, we can get into

53:10 that, what the brain, where his brain was at and what was going

53:15 on there. Cuz to me, there was definitely

53:16 two sides to him and whether it was compartmentalizing them in

53:20 some way of who he was in front of his football fans and all

53:25 that sort of stuff. And in his day-to-day life and

53:27 then who he was at night sort of stuff.

53:30 Yeah. Was so different.

53:31 Yeah just unbelievable. I mean again, cuz on that whole

53:36 front of him, his daughter and everything, he was obsessed with

53:38 his daughter. He was so this is changing his

53:41 life and he was so into being a dad and just couldn't wait to

53:44 get home to her sometimes so beautiful to hear but.

53:47 Sometimes couldn't wait to get home to her.

53:49 Yeah, he had another apartment. So this was known known about by

53:56 the New England Patriots business manager, who also

53:59 assisted many of the players in their personal finance.

54:02 So I don't know whether this was something that the New England

54:05 Patriots were paying for or whether this was more on a

54:07 personal level for Aaron. But he was renting this like

54:10 really nondescript cheap apartment in a in a really sort

54:17 of low key area, nothing flashy. And he said to his business

54:22 manager at the time, you cannot tell shy Anna about this.

54:27 This is just for me to know. And his neighbour also testified

54:31 in court at his trial for Odin Lloyd where?

54:35 And she basically said it just smelt like marijuana.

54:38 They'd have girls over. You know he was.

54:41 He was shaving. And knew that a lot of that was

54:43 going on though. She did, and she sort of turned

54:45 a blind eye. She sort of had this whole

54:47 persona around her of like, if I want to be with Aaron, the good

54:50 parts of Aaron, I have to put up with the shit parts.

54:53 And that was just. Do you think that she was

54:55 financially motivated? Oh look, I'm sure there was an

54:59 element of that. I I find it curious that they

55:02 got back together when he was drafted to the NFL.

55:04 I think they were still in communication, the whole.

55:06 Time though they were, but there's there was obvious there

55:09 were reasons why they broke up and I know he moved away and

55:13 that presents its own challenges.

55:15 But if it's for both of them in terms of that relationship

55:18 though. I'm sure there were.

55:19 I've I'm sure there were. I feel like for Shana though,

55:23 maybe her reasons were more fiscally motivated.

55:27 She to this day, you know, declares her love for him and

55:31 backs him entirely. That's.

55:33 True, I believe. Instagram page is full of, you

55:36 know, beautiful quotes about him and she.

55:38 Also changed her name. Yeah.

55:40 By deed poll. Yeah.

55:41 So they never got they never. This is a bit on the nose but

55:44 they never got married but she has changed her name to Shayna

55:47 Jenkins Hernandez. Which I wonder whether, I mean,

55:50 part of me is a little bit like, OK, I'm assuming her daughter

55:51 has that name. So.

55:54 And they were going to get married.

55:55 Yep. But I still kind of find that a

55:57 little bit. I don't know.

56:00 It's it's weird. It's weird, Yeah.

56:03 It's odd. Yeah.

56:06 Aaron was arrested on the 26th of June 2013 for Odin Lloyd's

56:11 murder. Yeah, So this was, what, nine

56:14 days after the actual murder took place?

56:16 And this was really well televised because all of the

56:21 major news outlets knew this was coming at some point.

56:23 They'd been camping out at Aaron's house.

56:26 He hadn't left. He'd sort of bunkered down at

56:29 home. And there's a really iconic

56:34 image of him. So the police come to his front

56:36 door and he's just wearing red shorts, no top.

56:42 The police then enter his house and about half an hour later,

56:46 they exit with Aaron in handcuffs with a white T-shirt

56:49 over the top of him. So his arms are bound behind his

56:52 back in handcuffs. And then AT shirt's been put

56:54 over him. So you can imagine his arms

56:56 aren't through the holes of the T-shirt.

56:59 Looks very straight. Jacket ish.

57:00 Very much so, yeah. This is since known on on social

57:04 media as Hernandezing, and if you type in #hernandezing into

57:11 TikTok, you know I did it. Oh.

57:12 God. People are copying that.

57:15 Like there are Halloween costumes of people like this,

57:20 people doing dances. Doing.

57:22 With their with their arms like bound behind them in AT shirt

57:25 over the top. Sorry.

57:26 But I bet their 6 packs don't shine through quite as well as

57:28 his. How?

57:29 Good is his six pack. He was never free again after

57:35 this point. So he's been taken into custody

57:38 and he had to stay like he wasn't granted bail.

57:42 I mean, there was a lot of circle circumstantial evidence

57:46 against him that sort of led to his arrest.

57:49 But yeah. But the trial didn't begin until

57:50 2015 till January 2015. 90 minutes after his arrest, the

57:55 Patriots released him. Yes, they were quick and swift

57:59 at. I feel like, I mean, obviously

58:01 they knew it was coming in that nine days.

58:03 You know, they knew he because he was.

58:04 Absolutely. And the police weren't quiet in

58:06 saying that he was their number one suspect.

58:08 Yeah, but they just didn't. It took them nine days to arrest

58:11 him. Which I mean, it's still pretty

58:12 good, I have to say. Like, you know, they've, you

58:14 know, they've managed to get all their evidence together in that

58:16 that space of time and know they've got their guy.

58:19 Yeah. But like so obviously the

58:20 Patriots wanted to distance themselves fairly quickly and

58:23 especially, I mean, they couldn't really do that until.

58:25 He was arrested. Yeah, and even more so, I mean,

58:27 some would say, you know, you shouldn't have even done that

58:29 till he was convicted, say, you know, because he's innocent till

58:31 proven guilty. But I think in their situation

58:33 with the amount of money he was being paid, that was a fair

58:36 call. I mean all these so all of his

58:38 sponsors, everyone exit out staged or left.

58:42 Yeah, so he had this life that was incredible.

58:44 And in an instant, basically it's just turned to shit.

58:47 Yes. Yeah, and so shortly after as

58:51 well. Shortly after he was arrested

58:53 for Odin's murder. In the months coming, he was

58:57 also charged with the murders of the two drive by shooting.

59:04 Yeah, the ones who accidentally bumped his drink in the.

59:07 Truck. I try and say their names again,

59:08 I'll totally destroy them, so go back.

59:10 If you want to re listen to the way Meg Meg says those, I'm not

59:13 even going to attempt it. No, his first name is Daniel.

59:16 And yeah, the dude was Furtado. Furtado.

59:18 Something furtado. Daniel and Furtado, yeah.

59:21 Yeah, he the way that they found out that he was connected to

59:26 those crimes. So it's really interesting.

59:27 So at the time of at the time of Aaron Hernandez's dad's death,

59:35 he and his mum really became estranged.

59:37 They don't have the best relationship.

59:40 Given the way Aaron grew up, I can really understand that, that

59:44 it sounds like things were volatile.

59:46 His mum was involved in crime, his dad was involved in crime.

59:49 He feels like in his dad's death, his mum didn't support

59:52 him and his brother through that.

59:53 She. Remarried.

59:54 Really. Quickly.

59:55 And who did she remarry? Her.

59:57 His cousin's husband, yes. So he really then lent on his

1:00:03 cousin Tanya Singleton, and he lived there for a time.

1:00:08 She she says that he's like a son to her.

1:00:13 They were incredibly close. They were so close that Aaron

1:00:19 left the car that he was in when he perpetrated the drive by

1:00:24 shooting in her garage for years and years and years until the

1:00:28 police found it when they were searching her house because

1:00:30 Aaron had lived there in relation to the Odin Lloyd

1:00:33 murder. Yeah, yeah.

1:00:36 Wow, Yeah. They've been looking for that

1:00:38 car for for years. Yes.

1:00:40 Stumble across it in that garage.

1:00:42 Yeah. So they then got a search

1:00:44 warrant to search that car and they were able to prove that it

1:00:47 was the car that was involved in that drive by shooting.

1:00:50 So that's how they were able to then bring the charges upon

1:00:54 Aaron for that crime as well. Yeah.

1:00:57 And Tanya, they've also brought charges against her.

1:01:00 She was suffering. So she was like, it was, I don't

1:01:04 know, a conspiracy to no, what was her charge?

1:01:09 Obstruction of justice, maybe, but she was actually suffering

1:01:13 from primary breast cancer. But she had secondary.

1:01:16 She had lung. Yeah, I believe colon cancer.

1:01:20 She was not in a good way. She served four months in

1:01:22 prison. Yeah, for.

1:01:24 For that. And then compassionate grounds,

1:01:26 basically they didn't charge you with anything else, but based on

1:01:29 the fact that unfortunately. Terminal.

1:01:31 Terminal and passed away not long after all this sort of

1:01:34 played out, yeah. I mean, her sentence had sort of

1:01:37 always been given to her already, which is awful, yeah.

1:01:40 Yeah, but she also committed a crime.

1:01:43 Oh. Totally.

1:01:44 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sorry that she was

1:01:46 doing 3 bodies. No, you wouldn't, of course, and

1:01:48 you wouldn't wish that on anyone.

1:01:50 But she's still like, cancer aside, Yeah, she still she's

1:01:54 assisted and knew what was going on.

1:01:57 Yeah, and there was lots going on in terms of behind the scenes

1:01:59 while she was in jail, between then conversations with I

1:02:03 believe it was Wallace or Ortiz. I think it was Ortiz.

1:02:06 Yeah, that she was potentially getting money to him or he was

1:02:10 getting money to her or something to, I can't remember

1:02:12 exactly how that all played out. It's quite complicated.

1:02:15 Excuse me? Yeah.

1:02:16 They were being sort of paid off to keep quiet on certain things.

1:02:21 Yeah, yeah. Just just crazy.

1:02:25 Yeah, crazy, crazy stuff. We are now at the point of the

1:02:30 trial of Aaron for Odin's murder.

1:02:34 There again, there is so much to to look into if you want to look

1:02:38 into this into more depth. But the, the, the outcome of it

1:02:41 was that he was convicted of first degree murder for Odin

1:02:46 Lloyd. The other two perpetrators who

1:02:48 were there were only, so they both actually pled guilty to

1:02:53 accessory charges. So they were they and they both

1:02:57 did four or five odd years in prison each.

1:03:01 Aaron received a life in prison sentence.

1:03:05 He was serving that sentence when the trial for the drive by

1:03:10 shooting came about. And he so he went, you know,

1:03:14 underwent that that trial during this time and he was actually

1:03:20 found not guilty on both charges.

1:03:23 So on the two attempt on the 2 murder charges for both of the

1:03:26 men in that car. Yes, that was where they they

1:03:28 built they the defence attorney was able to put a bit of doubt

1:03:32 in the jury's mind as to whether or not it was Alexander Bradley

1:03:35 who shot them or whether it was Aaron Hernandez.

1:03:38 Yeah, yeah. Which is interesting.

1:03:41 It is interesting the relief. So again, you can go and have a

1:03:47 look at this Google Aaron Hernandez court case, whatever.

1:03:53 You can see his reaction. So when he was convicted of the

1:03:57 murder of Odin Lloyd, he is stoic.

1:04:02 You don't even really see a change in his face.

1:04:05 He doesn't look to anyone. He just sits there, stands up,

1:04:09 They handcuff him and they take him away.

1:04:12 When the conviction is, well, when he's not convicted, when

1:04:18 he's yeah of the other two murders, he's so emotional.

1:04:23 Sobbing. Sobbing, he turns around.

1:04:25 He looks at his daughter. He blows a kiss to her.

1:04:27 She's in the courtroom. Just for the just for that last

1:04:30 part. Shyana was the only family

1:04:34 member to attend that 2nd court case.

1:04:38 He had no other support. Everyone had abandoned him by

1:04:40 that point. I mean, he was a convicted

1:04:42 murderer, so I mean, that's going to give you a few enemies,

1:04:45 isn't it? Or people certainly aren't going

1:04:47 to stick by you if that's where you're at.

1:04:49 Yeah, well, even Shanna for, you know, backing Hernandez in that

1:04:52 way, she lost her sister, too, so they were quite estranged.

1:04:56 There's very little communication between them since

1:04:58 that point. Yeah, I think Shanna also had a

1:05:01 perjury charge brought against her for that first trial against

1:05:05 in relation to Odin Lloyd, because she was obstructive in

1:05:11 not remembering things and whatever that that ended up

1:05:13 being thrown out. But yeah, I think that was

1:05:15 probably more to put some pressure on on Aaron's side of

1:05:18 things to. Yeah, which was pretty much

1:05:20 granted immunity in terms of things as well because of that,

1:05:22 because she didn't testify, but she certainly didn't testify

1:05:24 against Aaron. She she was very.

1:05:27 She forgot a lot of things we've.

1:05:29 Got a lot of stuff. Yeah.

1:05:30 Yeah. Like where she put a box with a

1:05:31 potentially a gun in it. Yeah.

1:05:33 There's there's again CCTV footage of her basically with a

1:05:37 black, this giant black plastic garbage bag with something heavy

1:05:42 and box like inside it that Aaron had asked her to get rid.

1:05:46 Of yeah, it was a text message which was fairly code written

1:05:49 around removing that box. You know how you broke the TV

1:05:52 sitting near there? Make sure you get rid of that.

1:05:55 Yeah. And so she does, but she can't

1:05:58 remember where. She can't.

1:05:59 She thinks she put it in a dumpster, but she can't remember

1:06:01 where the dumpster is. And she drove her sister's car

1:06:04 there, although she'd never driven her sister's car before.

1:06:06 And she had access to all of their cars.

1:06:08 Yeah, it was all very interesting.

1:06:11 There's an interview. Oh, sorry.

1:06:13 So Shania, Shania the her sister who was Odin Lloyd's girlfriend.

1:06:19 So she actually when this all went down and obviously didn't

1:06:22 know it was Aaron who had killed him and he certainly wasn't, you

1:06:25 know, being looked at first. She went and stayed at Aaron

1:06:29 Hernandez house with her sister. And Aaron Hernandez like was

1:06:35 really, really supportive of her doing the whole like, we're

1:06:37 going to find out who killed him and we're going to we're going

1:06:39 to help you and all that sort of thing.

1:06:40 I just find that really off like making out as if he didn't have

1:06:44 anything to do with it. I just found that.

1:06:45 Like, he's just as upset and he wants justice.

1:06:48 Yeah, yeah. Justice was ultimately served, I

1:06:51 suppose. Yeah.

1:06:53 Two days after his the second trial, he and he was acquitted

1:07:00 of those two murders. He there is so he's in prison

1:07:06 still serving out the life sentence for Odin Lloyd and he

1:07:10 is found hanged in his cell. He had created a noose

1:07:17 essentially out of bed sheets and tied himself to the bars of

1:07:22 a window. And he basically, they said he

1:07:24 would have had to have really wanted to do this because he

1:07:30 would have had to have gone against all of his instincts to

1:07:35 stand up because he could have stood up, but he's had to

1:07:37 basically bend. His knees, he put soap and

1:07:40 shampoo all over the floor. And they say that potentially 2

1:07:43 reasons for that one. That way the guards couldn't get

1:07:46 to him like they, you know, they'd slip and fall getting to

1:07:49 him to stop it from occurring, right, but also to stop himself

1:07:52 from being able to get footings to stand up.

1:07:54 Yeah, so. It's still he would have had to

1:07:56 have had he. Had to have wanted this to have

1:07:58 occurred. Yeah, he's, he's put everything

1:08:00 into it. Yeah, interestingly it was, it

1:08:02 was a conversation between him and another prison mate before

1:08:06 that happened where he'd asked that prison mates opinion on the

1:08:10 fact that he had an appeal out on his conviction for killing

1:08:14 Odin Lloyd. Obviously he'd been acquitted of

1:08:17 the other murder, the other murders.

1:08:18 So the only one outstanding obviously at that point in time

1:08:21 was his murder of Odin Lloyd. And if while the appeal was on

1:08:25 foot, what if that if he was to die, would that appear, Would

1:08:30 that appeal then sort of basically get put to the side

1:08:34 and he would basically be absolved of that?

1:08:37 Yeah. So there's a really archaic law.

1:08:41 Yeah, in Massachusetts, and it's called an abatement law.

1:08:46 So if you die while you're on appeal, your career, your

1:08:51 conviction is automatically erased.

1:08:54 Yeah. And that's what happened in the

1:08:55 case of Aaron Hernandez. So he was actually acquitted of

1:09:00 Odin Lloyd's, Lloyd's murder because he'd appealed it and he

1:09:05 died while it was on appeal. How unfair and how awful is

1:09:09 that? Odin Lloyd's mother changed this

1:09:12 law in in the wake of this. So Aaron's acquittal still

1:09:16 stands because the law was changed after this fact.

1:09:20 But she said she does not want any other family who's in this

1:09:23 situation to have to go through what she went through.

1:09:27 And, you know, the judicial system decided that, yes, this

1:09:29 was an archaic law and it was not something that was any

1:09:33 longer appropriate in today's society.

1:09:35 So that that was overturned. So if anything, that's a legacy

1:09:39 that Odin, Lloyd's mother, was able to to leave in tribute to

1:09:42 her son. What a weird.

1:09:43 What a weird law. I know I found that really

1:09:46 interesting because it an appeal stage, you have all the facts.

1:09:50 Yeah, it's basically now a judge just deciding whether or not it

1:09:52 was done correctly. So him being there or not

1:09:57 doesn't really matter. Yeah, it doesn't at all.

1:10:00 Yeah, so he, Aaron left three suicide notes, 1 to his fiance,

1:10:09 and in it he writes, Now you're rich.

1:10:14 Yeah. So there's a thought process

1:10:15 that because of the way, because he's now not convicted of that

1:10:19 murder that now he's $40 million contract.

1:10:21 There is well not all 40 million of it, but parts of that 40

1:10:25 million contract stand and he she should receive.

1:10:30 Feeling all of that money. Chunk of money yet, so that was

1:10:33 interesting to think that he was, I mean part of me kind of

1:10:36 go OK, he was looking out for his wife and not wife, but

1:10:39 girlfriend and daughter in doing that in his fucked up life.

1:10:44 But still, that's a weird thing and a weird way to say it.

1:10:48 Yeah, really odd. Really strange.

1:10:51 You left a letter for his daughter?

1:10:53 Yeah, Shana thinks that potentially so she doesn't

1:10:57 believe that he committed suicide.

1:10:58 She thinks that he was murdered in prison because she doesn't.

1:11:02 She just doesn't think that he would ever leave her or her

1:11:04 daughter or their daughter. She says that the letter's

1:11:09 lovely, but it's not personal, and that's what makes her think

1:11:12 that Aaron didn't write it. There is some.

1:11:16 So the prison guards on the night that he killed himself,

1:11:21 they didn't do what they were meant to do.

1:11:23 So they were meant to do hourly checks.

1:11:24 But this particular guard on this particular night was a bit

1:11:28 lazy. First time he went around, I

1:11:29 think he forgot like the key to get into that whole wing of the

1:11:32 prison. So he just didn't do the check

1:11:34 there. He.

1:11:35 Was obviously he was on his own in a particular cell because he

1:11:37 was so famous and he was very segregated from other other

1:11:42 inmates so. He's like, I can't hear

1:11:45 anything, so I'm sure he's fine. He's right.

1:11:47 Did that three hours in a row and then on the 4th hour is when

1:11:51 he was discovered. Yeah.

1:11:52 So you know, he's had a lot of time there.

1:11:55 And he was well and truly deceased when?

1:11:59 Maybe he knew that's what the pattern of the guard that that

1:12:02 guard's actions were too, and you just use it to his advantage

1:12:04 at that time. So.

1:12:05 Maybe he. Knows.

1:12:07 The other letter was for his lawyer and you know, has been

1:12:13 described as potentially a bit of a confessional of other

1:12:16 other. Things I heard that that letter

1:12:17 was for someone else. Well, that's where the

1:12:19 conjecture comes in. Although I, the lawyers, have

1:12:22 said that it was for them. So why would what?

1:12:24 What motive do they have to lie? Yeah.

1:12:28 Because if they thought it was for someone else, we haven't

1:12:30 even gotten into this side of things.

1:12:31 There's. A whole.

1:12:32 So let's just really, really quickly talk about this side of

1:12:36 things. Aaron had had sexual

1:12:41 relationships with men from a fairly young age.

1:12:45 Whether he was bisexual or homosexual and living a life

1:12:50 that he thought he should be living with Diana, we don't know

1:12:54 well. Yeah, I mean, I heard, and I

1:12:56 find this really sad that he believed that he'd been made

1:12:59 into being gay because of being he was, he was sexually abused

1:13:02 as a child, which I just find that that really unsettles me

1:13:06 like that. Well, one, that people that he

1:13:08 grew up in a household that homosexuality, his dad was

1:13:11 absolutely adamant that that was not OK, which is awful.

1:13:15 But to think that that's what turns you gay and that's, I

1:13:18 mean, it's proof that that's not what makes you gay.

1:13:21 And so they are, I really do question his, I don't know, his

1:13:24 idea of what being gay is. And I think he's got a whole lot

1:13:29 of issues in terms of his thinking around what gay is and

1:13:32 how how you become gay. It's not, that's not how you

1:13:35 become gay. And there's nothing wrong with

1:13:38 it. But yeah, he lived a life of not

1:13:41 really knowing who he really was, I think, and really

1:13:43 misunderstood himself in that sense.

1:13:44 For sure, but he'd look, to his credit, he sought out some

1:13:48 professional help with an NFL psychologist around this matter

1:13:52 and confessed to the psychologist that he had sexual

1:13:56 feelings towards men. Yeah.

1:13:58 And the psychologist said at the time, you're not the first

1:14:00 person, you're not the second person, you're not the third

1:14:03 person in NFL to told me that there are countless other men,

1:14:08 none of whom had come out at the time as being gay and being in

1:14:12 the AFL, NFL, sorry, but they were there.

1:14:17 Of course they were Gay people represent a percentage of any

1:14:21 population. It doesn't matter whether you're

1:14:22 an A of an NFL footballer or you're a ballet dancer or you're

1:14:26 a teacher or you're AI don't know whatever a gardener, it

1:14:30 doesn't matter. But in that mass hyper masculine

1:14:36 environment, it was, I don't know, nobody came out.

1:14:41 Yeah, well, I mean it's still fairly low I think.

1:14:43 I know from AFL perspective it's it's not.

1:14:46 Representative. Of the population, yeah, it

1:14:49 doesn't. And it's it's so wrong.

1:14:50 I mean, I hope that men are starting to feel like they can

1:14:53 come forward. And no matter what they do for a

1:14:54 living, yeah, that could be your life.

1:14:57 And there's no, there should be no shame on that whatsoever.

1:15:00 Yeah, the stigma needs to fuck right off.

1:15:02 Oh God, yeah. After Aaron's death, his mum and

1:15:07 brother agreed to donate his brain to, I think it was the

1:15:11 Boston University. They have a brain science unit

1:15:16 there and they look at a They were sort of studying brains

1:15:21 initially looking at Alzheimer's, and they found that

1:15:25 in brains of people who had suffered multiple concussions or

1:15:32 head traumas over their life. They discovered what they call

1:15:37 chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE for short.

1:15:42 And this is a neurodegenerative disease that is linked to

1:15:45 repeated head trauma. Basically, it's diagnosed after

1:15:49 death at the moment via dissection of the brain.

1:15:52 So it's not something at the moment that can be diagnosed.

1:15:55 I want to ask you that. In life.

1:15:56 Yeah. Because but they are trying.

1:15:58 How towards it, are they? Yeah.

1:15:59 That's why they've that's why they've got this, these very,

1:16:02 very clever people trying to figure out a way of how to

1:16:06 diagnose during life. Yeah.

1:16:08 In Aaron's case, he had very advanced disease at 27 years of

1:16:14 age. He was the most advanced.

1:16:16 He had the most advanced disease they had seen in somebody of

1:16:20 that age. Sorry.

1:16:22 If anyone, they'd seem sorry, let alone someone of that age.

1:16:26 Because he'd only at that stage, I mean, we're talking say, say,

1:16:29 just thinking about his life as NFL and saying that's where he's

1:16:32 getting because they received those concussions.

1:16:34 I mean, he's been playing NFL a long, long time.

1:16:36 I'm not even NFL necessarily about playing football for a

1:16:38 very long time. But he only played like three

1:16:40 seasons for the NFLI mean he'd been playing football.

1:16:43 He's pretty much tired, but I don't know how many concussions

1:16:48 he'd actually received. So this.

1:16:50 Is this is the thing he'd received one noted concussion in

1:16:56 high school. Yep. 1 during university, yeah.

1:17:00 And then in once they get to NFL, they don't really record

1:17:05 them. What?

1:17:06 But. But they.

1:17:10 And there's a culture that if you get knocked out, you get

1:17:14 back up again and you keep going.

1:17:16 And what we know now is that is the literal worst thing that you

1:17:19 can do. I was the trainer for my son's

1:17:22 AFL football junior football team.

1:17:25 Yeah. And there is a rule now that is

1:17:28 brought out by, well it's an AFL wide rule.

1:17:31 So it's whether you play AFL professionally or at the grass

1:17:35 roots level like our little kids do, if you receive a head knock

1:17:38 and a concussion, you have to sit out from football for 21

1:17:42 days and there's a whole concussion protocol that goes

1:17:45 along with that. And then honestly, as a parent,

1:17:48 you need to make the decision as to whether or not you want your

1:17:51 child continuing down that path. Yeah, knowing what we know now,

1:17:54 and we're definitely at the very infant stages, yeah, of knowing

1:17:58 what this is going to potentially cause in the future.

1:18:02 But there are AFL footballers who receive a concussion.

1:18:04 Mm Hmm. I mean, I know there's a,

1:18:06 there's a Melbourne football player who has retired this year

1:18:09 because he received such a bad concussion that he, he said his

1:18:13 brain health is not worth it. He has to quit.

1:18:16 Yeah, there's there's no option. I mean.

1:18:17 There's a lot of ex players that have come forward as well, you

1:18:20 know, with similar things. There are players who like,

1:18:22 there are men who are in there like 50s and 60s who can't drive

1:18:26 a car anymore, who don't know where they've left their car

1:18:29 keys, who have no executive functioning because of these

1:18:32 repeated traumas. Yeah.

1:18:34 In Aaron's case, it's affected his frontal lobe, which you know

1:18:38 is involved in decision making, impulse control, all that

1:18:41 executive functioning and your propensity to be violent.

1:18:44 Absolutely, yeah. And so.

1:18:47 And I'm not saying that everybody with CTE, in fact most

1:18:51 people with CTE then don't go on to perpetrate murder.

1:18:54 No, But Aaron's obviously had a history of really poor

1:18:58 behaviours, yeah, that have been escalated to this point,

1:19:02 probably somewhat accelerated by his CTE.

1:19:06 And I mean, you've got to wonder when this started to occur for

1:19:08 him. You know, he, I mean, we talked

1:19:10 about much earlier in the in this, about his dad's abuse,

1:19:13 this thing, and that was physical.

1:19:14 So I mean, he could have been getting concussions as early in

1:19:17 life, you know, as First off in his first few years of life.

1:19:20 So I mean, I dare say with the how the brain works, that if

1:19:23 this has happened earlier in life, potentially it's had even

1:19:26 more impact than happening later in life too, because of that

1:19:29 executive functioning being damaged, you know, along the

1:19:32 way. So yeah, at the point there's

1:19:34 got to be intervention for these things.

1:19:36 I mean, I'm hoping that they're moving really close towards

1:19:38 being out of, you know, do brain, brain scans in life and

1:19:41 pick these things up earlier. Because I'm, I, I guess for, you

1:19:45 know, an errant situation. I wonder whether as a younger

1:19:48 person, it's like, you know, starting college, you know, they

1:19:50 do a brain scan to say to see what's going on if they

1:19:53 intervene, you know, and kind of is there treatment?

1:19:55 Is there something you can? Do well.

1:19:56 There's no treatment at the moment but but will there be at

1:19:59 some point? We don't know.

1:20:00 Potentially enough. Enough intervention to have

1:20:03 someone not murdered. Yeah, like, but it still

1:20:06 requires the person, or if it's a child, the person's parents,

1:20:12 to make a really tough decision. So you actually have to decide

1:20:16 that maybe your child who is passionate about playing a

1:20:19 sport, like, OK, Aaron's received this.

1:20:21 He received a really significant concussion in high school.

1:20:25 What if the advice was given then to his family to say he

1:20:31 should not be playing football anymore?

1:20:32 Well. And that's where I think it's

1:20:34 really hard to say. But that's a really, really

1:20:39 tough decision to make. But at the end of the day,

1:20:41 that's your child's brain health.

1:20:43 Yeah, and ongoing. Would you rather him stop

1:20:46 playing football at that point and live a very ordinary life or

1:20:52 continue on and potentially turn into who he turned into?

1:20:55 You know, but get that $40 million contract.

1:20:58 But what did that 40 million contract mean at the end of the

1:21:00 day? Fuck all.

1:21:02 Because he killed someone. That's where you, well, killed

1:21:04 3. Don't.

1:21:04 You like and kind of go for him. It was a definite it should have

1:21:06 been a this is it for you mate. You're done, but.

1:21:10 Hindsight's a beautiful thing too, because not everybody who

1:21:14 receives multiple head traumas will develop CTE either.

1:21:17 And and all to that extent of what he, you know, developed so.

1:21:20 That's it. Oh.

1:21:21 It's so hard. It's really complex.

1:21:22 So yeah, as you said, let's hope they can develop screening tools

1:21:26 for people while they're alive and maybe you can monitor the

1:21:30 disease and. So I'm wondering too, like, you

1:21:31 know, I mean, we always start, you know, from AFL to NFL, like

1:21:34 AFL players are considered hardcore.

1:21:37 I mean, I know a lot of Americans that I know that have

1:21:39 watched AFL, you know, go holy cow, that's ridiculous.

1:21:41 Well, they can't believe that they don't wear any reaction

1:21:44 whatsoever. Whereas, I mean, yeah, like NFL

1:21:47 players wear a whole lot of gear to protect themselves, in

1:21:51 particular helmets. But I know that like the helmets

1:21:53 they wear for AFL that we've spoken about with our young

1:21:56 kids, like they sort of say potentially not as, but the

1:21:59 thing. With the helmet is it doesn't

1:22:00 prevent a concussion because your head is.

1:22:02 Your brain is still smacking into the inside of your head.

1:22:04 You can't protect your brain. No.

1:22:06 So is that the same? That would obviously be the same

1:22:08 with the big helmets they wear in NFL compared to like these

1:22:10 ones so our kids are wearing. That's it.

1:22:12 Those hard, big helmets, they're protecting against fracture,

1:22:15 fractures and, you know, eyes being, you know, poked out or I

1:22:19 don't know, you know, they're a far more sort of.

1:22:22 External injury that like yeah your protection cannot and.

1:22:26 Helmet doesn't prevent a concussion.

1:22:28 No, because that's your brain banging against the.

1:22:29 Inside the inside of your head and you can stop that.

1:22:31 No, nothing stops. That no and so.

1:22:34 It's a really tough one. Oh yeah, yeah.

1:22:36 I mean, we all love our football, whether, you know, in

1:22:39 America it be NFL and we're in an AFL in Australia and you

1:22:43 know, we pay them incredibly well to play these amazing

1:22:46 sports for us. But geez, there's some real

1:22:48 negative impacts potentially, Yeah, for them, yeah.

1:22:52 Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, really tough.

1:22:55 Anyway. Well, just ending on a quote

1:22:57 like James Patterson who was an author, I just, I feel like

1:23:01 there was a really good quote from him in terms of how he saw

1:23:03 Aaron Hernandez as being an all pro footballer who operated like

1:23:08 a serial killer. It's true.

1:23:10 Which is so true and unfortunately, apparently whilst

1:23:13 he was in jail, Aaron Hernandez spoke to another inmate and

1:23:16 actually referred to potentially that he called four people.

1:23:19 Oh, I didn't know about that. And if he did, if that is true,

1:23:23 Yep, that turns that he then qualifies as a serial killer.

1:23:26 He does. Yeah.

1:23:28 So I don't know if that's true. That was just it, you.

1:23:30 Know whether that needed a throwaway comment.

1:23:32 Yeah, or not, But if that was true, there you go.

1:23:35 Yeah, I mean, three's a lot. Not that we can say he murdered

1:23:39 the other two because he wasn't convicted of those other two

1:23:41 murders. But I mean, he allegedly,

1:23:44 potentially he, he attempted to kill Alexander Bradley.

1:23:49 Yep, good point. Let's leave it on that note.

1:23:54 Please join us again next week. If you'd like to buy us a

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1:24:03 Next week are in our show nights along with our socials as well.

1:24:06 Yep, and please follow us on our socials.

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1:24:14 I just need a few more on TikTok before I get to that next level

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1:24:18 Let's do that too. Thanks.

1:24:20 Thanks everyone, really appreciate it.

1:24:22 Next week we are going to be talking about Jane Thurgood

1:24:25 Dove, I even. Know the next episode was.

1:24:28 You're welcome. This one's a big case of

1:24:30 mistaken identity, so stay tuned for this one.

1:24:33 Yeah. OK, this is.

1:24:34 Oh, that's a good. It's a really good one.

1:24:35 Yep, All right. Very interesting.

1:24:36 OK. Thank you everybody for joining

1:24:38 us and we'll see you again next week.

1:24:40 Thanks, everyone. Bye.

1:24:41 Curious crime besties. Bye.

1:25:01 He trained with the team they'd be and he was a a tight end, so

1:25:06 he was a captain. You sounded like you know what

1:25:08 you're talking about there. Yeah, because I do.

1:25:10 OK, OK. Oh, I got into tight ends.

1:25:14 Can you repeat that? No, I'm not going to.

1:25:18 You can. You can clip that one out if you

1:25:20 want I. Will I will be?