Episode 21 - Gabby Petito

0:15 Welcome back to Crime Besties to Episode 21. It's a bit exciting. What I know it's crazy. It's exciting. I'm I, I love it that each week like I feel like it's a milestone to reach the next episode. Totally, especially weeks have been a tough like this one. Yeah, we've had, we've had a week. Yeah, my son injured himself at the start of this week, stitches in his knee and he's been feeling a bit sore and sorry for himself. But you know, onwards and upwards. Today's a new day and he's at school and he'll be there the whole day.

0:47 He's hilarious, I love it. It won't be it's not the first and won't be the last injury of Ollie. No way. No way. Yeah. I love, you know, he's so active with getting out there and that you know, these things happen when you're when you're such an active child. You know, the the worst part for him is that he can't play sport for a few weeks. So killing. Him, Yeah, yeah, I know the on Monday morning, the drive to school and I wasn't sure if Ollie would be at school or not. And I said to my two boys, now if you see Ollie out in the yard, obviously he won't be running around.

1:15 So go and make it. Sit with him for a few minutes, chat with him, keep him entertained or something. Don't just run off like like thought of. The poor kid will be absolutely devastated that he can't be in there with everyone else. Yeah, his teacher told me on the So he went back to school on the Tuesday and she put it chair outside for him so that he could sort of sit down and he's like mum, there were just like 4 girls that and they were just talking at me all recess talking at me. I'm like well that was really nice that they hung around you and kept you company because the rest of his mates had obviously gone off and kept playing sports.

1:47 Yeah, the girls. Have been lovely and so I could have brought home all the Goss. I mean, geez. I actually need to hit him up for the Goss. I'm sure they would have been some. Definitely. They would have been spilling Primo, Yeah. Although knowing Ollie, he would have told you already if there was some Good. Stuff that's true, he is good with stuff like that. He's great with info. I told my boys after your youngest bought home goth the other day, like, which was like I said to my you 2, you're not just not living up to it.

2:10 Come on, like bring bring that home. You got to start listening a little bit more because both of them Brody, who was in the same class as Lucas, did not get that bit of bit of information at all. That Lucas. Brought well, I love that Lucas had deduced it for himself, and he was so proud of himself that he'd worked it. Out. Yeah, Brody was like, but she didn't say that. I said no, she didn't say that. The actions called that. Brody, I love it. Oh, it's great. Yeah. Very exciting. Love it. The other thing I wanted to have a quick chat with you guys about, Yeah, is on Sunday, Peter and I went out for lunch with my brother and sister-in-law.

2:47 We try and go out once a year. This is instead of giving each other gifts throughout the year, we just go out for a really nice meal and and that's sort of our our gift to one another. And we get my brother and sister-in-law get there and my brother pulls out of his pocket a gift for me and he's, you know, hands it over and I open it up and it's a low poke. So for those of you who haven't yet listened to our Staircase episodes, has. To show us it, I'm gonna have to say this thing. Yeah, it's so funny.

3:17 He got it from TAMU for like $2.37. So it's, it's the quality, it's the quality of a temo $2.30 did. You give it a bit of a whack on the head of his just to check if it could cause the injury. I actually didn't, but why I didn't, I don't know. It's odd anyway, for those of you. To the staircase. Yeah, the staircase episode. And in it, apparently, I actually don't even remember saying this, but he said that I said something along the lines of if my brother ever gave me a blow poke for Christmas, I would kill him.

3:51 So yeah. So thanks for that, Matt. Early Christmas present received. Oh. So good. Well done, Matt. I appreciate. I appreciate that. Yeah, Gold. Yeah, it's great. It was it was a long, it was a long play too, because you know nothing from team. Whoever comes quickly does it somebody. Bought it when the. Episode Yeah, he did. He reckons he bought it when he was listening to it and it was like months, you know, a couple of months have gone past. Oh, that's so episode 7 and 8. For those of you who haven't listened to The staircase, go back and have a go.

4:20 Double episode that one because it's very Oh my God, that's that was huge. That nearly killed me, that one. Yeah, every search of that was it so. That it was that was a long slog. We've got a few coming up so we this week we sat down and sort of did our episode schedule through to next year yeah, into the early part of next year and there are a couple coming up that are huge like that are going to be big research we've. Done some, yeah. I think we've spaced them out well enough though. Yeah, we'll see.

4:47 Yeah, can always be changed. Yeah, we might. We'll Yeah, we'll be all right. We'll be all right. So let's get into today's episode. It's this is sort of of more recent living memory for most people. And I think most people will hear the name Gabby Petito and know exactly who we're talking about. However, when I was telling my husband about this, yeah, he didn't recognise her name. But when I told him, like the the overview of the story, he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I remember her. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, He might not have been taking notice of the name.

5:19 Yeah, he could have shown her face and he wouldn't have known. Who? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's it. This is what happens when you don't remember faces. Yeah. But yeah, she to me, that name is so recognizable. But then I guess we're obsessed with true crime. So. Yeah. But yeah, but it was everywhere at the time. I mean, I mean, that's the, I think the whole thing of this case really is that how much it got picked up in social media. I mean, a lot of, you know, arm chest detectives took this case on and really helped solve what, you know, where her body was.

5:50 Absolutely. Yeah. It was huge at the time. And I think it was one of, like, the first, I think TikTok kind of like really heavily got into, you know, this case. So yeah. We'll get into some really like some more specifics, I'm guessing as as we go on. But you know, the one of the things that I found interesting when I was looking at TikTok, I'm not a big TikTok person. I don't have a personal TikTok account. I just use our two crime besties account. But I was looking into some of the Tik Toks around this, and people got down to such detail, like about how much hair growth regrowth she had and forget what's the same and get timelines.

6:23 And yeah, it was incredible. Yeah. People are, like, obsessed with this case. Yeah. You sent me a video, a Tiktok video of a girl. And we can actually link that that Tiktok in our show notes because she made something like 400 Tiktoks or more. It was actually more than 400 Tiktoks just about Gabby potato. Yeah, yeah, she does other crimes as well, like looks into other crimes as well, but over 400 just on Gabby potato. Crazy. Yeah, it's it's mental. And she has some really great information. Yes, and I mean where people go and find this stuff, it's amazing how they get onto all.

6:55 These things, but a few things I looked at, I was like, oh, I just want to validate that. Yeah, elsewhere and wasn't able to find things to back up what some people were saying. Like some things that are out there are really far fetched. And I guess that's what happens on social media. You can say whatever you want to say. Absolutely, but that's this case. Like there's so much like body Cam footage and stuff like that when that's real life. That's what happened. You can interpret things are still, you know, of like, you know, people, people's intentions were sure you know what how they're in, you know, trying to understand how someone was thinking to say that.

7:22 Yeah, at least you can. It's very factual. A lot of that evidence that's been there. It's body Cam footage etcetera of like things. So yeah, that I do like watching those me too for that reason. You're getting real genuine like footage of what happened. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's insane. There's a lot out there on this case, especially once you get into it, there's and there's a lot of the, the different parts, the moving parts of this. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. Yeah, when like I was sort of thinking about how we can talk about it today, but I've, I've actually written a bit of a timeline.

7:52 Sure. And then I thought we could go through the timeline piece by piece and then discuss the points as we go. Cool. Because I don't really want to miss anything. And like, I thought I knew this story. And I mean, I guess I did know the big points along the way. But it's funny, the things that I've now found out about which actually changed my, not my overall feeling of the case hasn't changed, but it definitely changed the way like my perception of like law enforcement and that kind of thing in relation to this case.

8:24 Yep, Yep, definitely. I completely agree with you. Cool. Yep. All right, so perfect. Gabrielle Venora Petito was born on the 19th of March in 199919991999 I mean, she was nearly born in 2000 and she was an adult. Like what? Sorry, not right. No, she can drive a car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know like someone was saying to the other day, like, you know, so you know, like, you know, like the late 1900s. And I was like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, oh God, I was born in the late 1900s. Like that's not what we don't call it the late 1900s.

8:57 It's just born in the 80s, mate. It was born in the 80s. Thank you. Anyway, she was born in Blue Point, NY. She came from a really sort of lovely blended family. She has 6 younger siblings and half siblings. And so she was born to her mother, now named Nicole Schmidt. And Joseph Potato, or Joe Potato, is her father. They've since remarried. So Nicole is married to Jim and Joe is married to Tara Potato. And they are what you would want a blended family to be. They're close, they communicate, They're not all up in each other's business, but they are completely amicable and all they care about are their kids.

9:43 The kids and I mean hats off to them entirely. Like they were only young Nicole and Joe when they had Gabby, they were 2021 ish. And so to be able to go from that and split up remit and meet other people and have their own families sort of from that. But then Gabby feels like she legit has four parents. There's no steps in that family. I love that that they were all they're very much on the same page of that. And that is so evident when you look at at the, there are interviews with all of the family together.

10:15 Yeah. And even this, the stepdad and the stepmom, even their relationship's really nice, like so they're just. When they would stand, the two of them were standing next to each other and like and I kind. Of fitting each other because. I one thing is I kind of go. Well, they do have a type. Yeah. Like Tara looks a little bit like Nicole and Joe looks a little bit like her, Like the other husband, I. Can't remember. He just said it. Jim got Jim got Joe and Jim. Joe and Jim, we go, yeah, that's why I'm getting mixed.

10:38 Up like, yeah, I kind of like, well, you've both got to type, but you know, you can see the all of them literally probably hang out and go out for dinner potentially. Like totally, I mean, And I think this, unfortunately, what happened has definitely brought them closer together. So this is it. Yeah. Which I mean, they've had to. They've gone through so much with this. And thankfully, they did have already a good base of a relationship. But I think you're right. I think this has really brought them even closer because, you know, their link was Gabby and I guess without her around, you know, that link could separate more.

11:09 But they've had to come together for so much. And they I can see they continue. They will continue that through other foundations and things they've set up. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Gabby, in her younger life, she loved school. She was a really bright student. Apparently the school that she went to in high school I think was like almost a select entry type school. Like she's incredibly intelligent. She was a really talented artist and that's evident by like you can actually see some of her drawings and she does like her family now have all went and got tattoos, matching tattoos or not matching, but tattoos that Gabby had sort of drawings of hers.

11:46 Yeah, yeah, really talented artistically. I certainly have none of that in me. Appreciate someone else who has all that ability. Yeah, absolutely. And she was an incredibly adventurous spirit. And I think that goes that shows in in the life choices that she made. And she just kind of, you know, went with the flow and, yeah, incredible, incredible young woman. Absolutely. I guess her undoing came when she met. So when she was at high school, she met Brian Christopher Laundry. He was born on 18th of November in 1997.

12:20 So he was a couple of years, a year and a half or so young, older than her. It was. Either a year ahead of her at school though is that. Right. He was one year ahead of her. So they met and knew each other at high school, but they hadn't kept in contact sort of after high school, I don't think. Read Mixed Things. There were some friends were commenting that they were they knew each other at school, but it wasn't until after the school that they really started dating. Officially, they bumped into each other at a party, recognized one another and and started dating and I from from what I've read, I think their relationship went from zero to 100 in about 30 seconds There's.

12:59 Certainly comments from friends and stuff that their relationship was quite volatile that they. Right from the get go, yeah. I didn't really know what they were gonna get in terms of the two of them, whether they were totally loved up or whether they were fighting OK. There was definitely some comments from friends, you know, I'm some interviews around that. But even early on. Yeah, OK. Her really close friend Rose. Yeah, actually she commented around a story that where the two of them like, so she was single Rose.

13:23 But you know, Gabby was obviously partnered with with Brian, but the two of them are going to go out to this line dancing night where they were. It was it was ladies night. So it wasn't about bringing along a partner. I think it's just two of them want to go out and have a fun night. And they were getting ready that Gabby was going to get a cab or something to meet up with Rose. And she got halfway there in this cab and realized her wallet, her ID, was missing. And it turned out that Brian had taken it off her.

13:46 He didn't want her to go because he didn't like what she was wearing and all these sorts of things. And was. Yeah. He was incredibly jealous, Yeah. So I think that actually happened like after they'd moved down to Florida. So I'm from my impression is that early on in their relationship, everything looked to Fred like friends and family very early on that things were OK. Although Gabby's mum reckons she thought Brian was OK, but she never really like clicked with him. Like there was not that. Oh yeah, he's a really good bloke.

14:19 And I, I'm really happy Gabby's with him. But also Gabby was an adult and she had to make her own choices. And we all like everyone makes, you know, some not so great relationship choices early on in their lives. And that just happened to be like, she just thought, you know, Gabby was kind of going through going through all that. Yeah. But Gabby was smitten right from the get go. She was just head over heels in love with Brian and. And supposedly he with her as well. Yeah.

14:49 But yeah, as you said, things, things took a turn very, very quickly. So Gabby, they met in New York and then and Brian's parents then moved from New York down to Florida. And Brian didn't have enough money to stay in New York and sustain his like, he couldn't have afforded to rent a place of his own. So he had basically no choice but to move to Florida with his parents. Yeah. And basically he said to Gabby, do you want to come with me? And she thought, well, why not, like. So she moves down with the family down to Florida.

15:22 They lived in, they lived down there together in North Port, FL for 12 months. And in that time, I guess they did odd jobs here and there. So they both worked at Publix, which is like a grocery type store casually. And then Gabby got a job at a bar. Now this was much better paying than a, than the public's job. Brian wasn't happy about that. He didn't, he wanted, he was already starting to really isolate her. I mean #1 he's moved her away from all of her friends and family and support network down to Florida.

15:55 Yeah. He then wanted to work with her and be with her all the time. And she's, she's hoping to earn enough money to be able to move out of, out of the Laundry's family home so that she and Brian could start their life together. He wasn't happy about her getting this job at a pub or a bar or whatever it was, but he but she basically said well I'm going to earn more money and that way we can move out quicker and start our lives together. She was committed to him. That's all that needs to be done. But the jealousy was already starting, and I think this is where you were saying so.

16:32 She met Rose down in Florida. When you started, I'm like, yeah, I'm getting. A little bit ahead, yeah, but that's cool. We're there now. So she met Rose and they instantly, I think they met via social media. I'm pretty sure I'll buy a friend app or something. Yeah. And she, yeah, they really hit it off straight away. And they were besties. Like they were doing everything together. And what a beautiful friendship. And have you seen Rose interviewed? Yeah, she's a lovely girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think her mum was commented around Rose saying, you know, that she was so close with her that she felt like if there was an issue with her and Brian's relationship that she would probably have opened up to her before.

17:12 Even her mum and her mum and Gabby were very close. But yeah, she was, her mum was like even just her mum was very happy with this friendship that she developed. It was a good friendship for her. But. Rose Rose's account of everything, though, is that she identified the fact that Brian was, you know, very controlling and jealous, but he but and she would sort of mention things to Gabby like this is actually not OK. Like he can't treat you like that. He can't do that to you. The night that you were talking about where he took her ID out of her wallet so that she couldn't go to this line dancing thing.

17:47 Yeah. That night, Gabby ended up going back to Rose's house and spending the night with her because she was so upset and felt so betrayed by what Brian did. And Rose thought that that was kind of potentially the end of the relationship. Relationship. Yeah. But she the next day, she went back there because he was so sorry. And he brought her flowers, and he, like he loved, bombed her. Well, there's statistics on it of how many, you know, attempts it takes for, you know, someone in a relationship like this to leave, and it's at least five.

18:15 OK, so you know it can take multiple attempts to leave and. That's just on average, like Gabby might have taken some. People might take 7. Yeah. 20 yeah, some people might be able to leave that first time, might be the second or third, Yeah, for others it's a lot more. It's typically it's around, you know, four to five attempts. Before they leave. OK. Yeah, yeah. It's tricky. It's very, very tricky. Oh, it's just, it's just horrible. Yeah, absolutely horrible. So while they were. Living in Florida, though, I mean, obviously Gabby was living in the Laundry's family home.

18:49 Yeah. So there was, it's one stage she was living with his sister and brother-in-law. And then another stage, there was his mom and he and his dad, I believe. Yeah. So there was kind of some time where his parents were overseas, I think when. And that was when Cassie, his sister and the hit James, his brother-in-law, was living in the house. And then they moved into another property. Yep. And so there was crossover there, but I mean, she was building relationships with his, you know, brought a family through this, you know, nephews and stuff like that as well.

19:19 So that's just playing that seed for later. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. So on the 2nd of July in 2020, now we've got to probably put a bit of a COVID mask on, on the timing of all of this. Yeah, they were engaged. So this was exactly a year to the day before they left on their van trip, which we will get into. On that whole topic then as well, like so they've got engaged and there's and they're building. She's built this relationship then with his extended family. I'm, I don't normally go to this level of like, I feel like there's a, there's a lot of privacy with, you know, like people that we research in these things.

19:58 And I don't typically, typically go to social media stuff. However, obviously with this case being a bit different with social media, yeah, I did search her social media and things like that. One thing I did find was that her Pinterest account is still open and if you go in there's a particular board called Life Goals and when you click on it, it's a shared board. It's shared with three other people. So this life goals board is literally wedding planning, right? And holy shit Jesus she's got a vision.

20:27 I was like, the board is stunning. Love that for her I. Love that I want to say that wedding, but not till they're Aunt Brian, obviously. But yeah, so there was. It was shared with Brian, her mum and Brian's mum, yeah. Brian's mom's name's Roberta and his dad's Chris, just in case we refer to them by name. Upcoming but. Yes. So yeah, I just found that very interesting. So clearly she's built relationships enough to have a shared board of like life. Goals for these two, That's it's very, very telling, yeah.

20:59 Given it was during COVID, they sort of ended up postponing, I guess, any sort of wedding planning, not knowing what was coming up, how long lockdown would be, what restrictions would be coming up. And so on the 11th of December in 2020, they or Gabby purchased a van in the hopes of doing it up and living out of it and doing a cross country trip across the United States. Yeah, she, it was a white, a 2012 white Ford Transit van. She spent the next or they spent the next six or seven months decking it out.

21:37 So they popped a bed in the back. They put, I don't know, different bits and pieces that you need to live out of a van. I don't know. She had it very well set up. It looked everything. She had its place and she had like pegboards with things hanging up and it was all like, it's a tiny, tiny little van. It's not like a camper van or anything like that. Smallest version of a camper van, I think you can never get like, yeah, yeah, it's tiny, but. Tiny, yeah. But she did the amazing job of having everything in there and but very like hashtag van life kinda.

22:04 It was very Instagramable. So I think that was the intent, right? She wanted to be an influencer, Yeah. And she was already doubling in that social media space. But thought we've decided now, postpone the wedding, go on this amazing cross country trip. They didn't have huge plans in terms of timeline for anything. They wanted to visit all of the national parks. I think that was their goal when they set out. And yeah, she had everything sort of set up and ready to go. And they literally departed exactly 12 months after they got engaged on the 2nd of July in 2021.

22:38 Yeah. So they actually ended up departing from Blue Point in New York. They were there celebrating Gabby's younger brother's graduation from high school. And so they just thought it was the last opportunity to sort of see Gabby's family before they departed on their on their journey. And yeah, they, you know, celebrated with her family and we're off on this amazing adventure. Gabby's mum says. You know, she was kind of a little bit even jealous of Gabby. Like she as in she's got this whole amazing, exciting adventure ahead of her, as she should when she's 22.

23:16 Her mom, her mom had a 2 year old, I think, you know, So yeah, she's her daughter is living a life that she probably didn't get to do because she had a little child with her at that stage. And so she'd been so proud of her. Like, yeah, amazing. Yep. So they're they're plan, I guess very loosely was to drive basically make their way back down to Florida and start really start the hook through from there. So they've driven Florida to Kansas. They were looking to then go through Colorado and Utah. Yep.

23:47 Okay just real quick on Utah Tamp side nerd Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. I'm still need to get back. On it's the best you need to give it a go, yeah, but the one that you love so much. And this really ties into the social media side of things. If anyone hasn't watched Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Now, if you haven't, where have you been? Get on it. Yeah, you've been living under a rock. It's amazing and it's about the the mum talk. Sorry mum talk, mum talk. Can mum? Talk even survive this.

24:18 Anyway, sorry, tangent. I just, I just like, I was writing down Utah and I'm like, well, we can't not mention it if you're. In Utah you have to mention it like totally melons, I mean God and soft swinging I mean. I never thought we'd bring soft swinging swinging into this podcast anyway. Within the next sort of month or so, they've they visited monument Rocking Kansas, they've gone through Colorado Springs, the Great Sand Dunes in Colorado, Zion National Park in Utah, Bryce Canyon in Utah, Mystic Springs in Utah.

24:54 They've been to a couple of national parks, Archers National Park and Canyonlands National Park. Yeah. And this all sort of took place between the 4th of July and the 12th of August. And they're posting regularly on social media, you know, with throughout that. So there's and quite lengthy posts that Gabby put up around what they were doing and how they what they've been up to. So, yeah, so the other thing, actually, I'm wondering whether you know a bit more about this. I know they posted one YouTube video, so they started a YouTube channel.

25:24 Yeah. And with the hope to like, I think Gabby's intent was to eventually monetize, yeah, her content. And so she was creating all of these videos, but I believe they only released one on YouTube. Is that right? She. Really managed to get one up there was like an 8 minute I think video. So they had a website and she posted that YouTube clip to that website. OK, because so she was, she was at the time, this was like when blogging and vlogging was a thing like, which is we've now moved further into, I guess, more of other aspects of social media of, you know, releasing these sorts of things on YouTube being, I think a bigger thing.

26:01 You almost don't need a website for this sort of stuff these days. Whereas at the time it was, you know, you have a website, you release your videos on your website. So, yeah, she was in the midst of creating all of that. And she was so artistic. I think she was really particular around how she wanted it all presented, which good on her. She was branding herself, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That video, though, have you watched it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's really well done and very well edited.

26:25 And yeah, she's, it's basically like her perspective of what they were doing for the day and what how they were setting up and she, she was just going through what they did in a day. Yeah. And I mean, look, it's probably not the type of YouTube content I would watch. It's not really my cup of tea. But Van. Life is a huge. Massive. Especially in America, I think with the with I mean there's stunning national parks in America and I mean and to jump in a in an RV, as they call it like, you know, and go across the country is huge over there.

26:53 There would definitely be a very good big community who wouldn't tap into that absolutely massive. You know, this is looks amazing. Let's go there and, you know, follow through with what, you know, journey they've taken. Yeah, hashtag. Van life, yes. So there's August 12th, August 12th. This is yeah, this is a this is a turning point. Yeah, yeah. So there was an altercation, they were in Moab City, Utah, and there was an altercation that was witnessed by several witnesses who then called that into 911 and.

27:25 Get on those people for calling this behaviour out. Oh, I fully agree. I mean, when there there is a movie that's been made of this and I watched the movie, it's not really necessarily true to the timeline's a bit warped on it. It it doesn't quite follow the timeline exactly. And there's a few things that happened in it that are fictionalized. But when I was watching the movie and it's called the Gabby Potato story, Peter came in, my husband came in and he just saw the scene. This scene where basically Brian has hit the depiction is Brian has hit Gabby and the witness calls 911.

28:09 Now the way that the movie has depicted it is that they are at the front of a grocery sort of shop and the witnesses see this altercation happening in the car park. They don't go and physically intervene though. They just ring 911 now I kind of get that as like I as a woman, I don't I wouldn't go over there. I would do the same. I would ring the police you. Don't really know what you're walking into. Yep, Yep. And also there's like, there is a bit of an element of, well, like that's, I don't know, between two people, but this woman is being hit like, but Peter, Peter's take on it was, I don't understand what, how that bloke could just stand there and not go over there and do something.

28:52 I think from the the actual nine on one call, to me it seems as though he did maybe approach and they've immediately got in the car. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's actually what happened. I think you're right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I know what you're saying that Eva, if you saw this stuff, wouldn't you into like try and physically intervene at the time? But I do think that's maybe where they were like, oh, do we approach? And when they did go to approach, they like get in the car. Like, yeah.

29:15 And they've driven away, yeah. Yeah, that's what I've sort of took from that call. Yeah, So the the report, the man who made the report or the 911 call, the most prominent 1, I believe there were two, but there's one that's like very readily available on online. He does say that like he gives them a description of the van and the license plate number. So yeah, Florida number plate. Exactly. So the they know like the police. They find them very. Lookout. Yeah, they're on the lookout for them. So they find them, they pull them over on a highway and Oh my God, the the body Cam footage of this which was released many many weeks later.

29:56 But Oh my God, it is harrowing it. Really. Is it trees? Something shocking? It's really, really horrendous. Gabby is so distressed. Like so extremely distressed. You see such a different domain between the two of them in that video clip, so there's two different body Cam footages. And funnily enough, they only released one of those body Cam images originally. So months later after this, it occurred still, but they released one lot of body Cam footage which gave one perspective of what happened and it wasn't until they released the second body Cam footage that you that it's holy fuck this was not done well.

30:39 No, there's moments in that interaction that is just so appalling by those police officers. Disgusting. I understand that it's really hard to take, you know, two people's word on what they're saying, you know, kind of you know and know and then know what's happened. Absolutely. There's always three story, 3 parts to every story. You know, there's three sides to every story, however, but if they had only been able to listen to that nine on one call or call the nine on one dispatcher and actually discuss and find out what was said, I think there would have been a very different take on what happened.

31:08 OK, but. This is what gets me, right? There's a lot of this out there where people are like, oh, if only they knew. They knew because the body Cam footage, the 1:00 where they're talking to Gabby, the police officer says to her, He says to her, we've got a report that he hit you with a closed fist. Yep, Yep. And so there's, I feel like there's one cop who knows, but they haven't somehow communicated to the other cop who's maybe more senior. Yeah, yeah. So the I think you're right. So the first body Cam footage that was released was the police officer who was with Gabby.

31:39 Yep. We didn't then see the body Cam footage of the police officer who or police officers who were with Brian until much later on. So we didn't have that perspective to start with. Yeah, All we can see is Gabby's really distressed. She's in the back of the police car. So they've they've told them to get out of their van. They've pulled over on the side of the road, get out of your van. They've separated them. They've taken Gabby. She's sitting in the back of a police car. Brian's standing at the back of their car having a chat with another group of police officers.

32:07 Don't even. OK, Thank you. Yeah, we'll get to that in a second. The police officer says to Gabby, like what's happened here? We've got a report that you that he hit you. We've got a witness stating he hit you. And she goes, oh, yeah, but I hit him first. She's. Defending him. She's immediately now another thing worth noting, a month before this incident, before this, they they had this interaction with Gabby and Brian, their entire police force undertook ADV professional development course, domestic violence professional development course.

32:42 Also though, one of those cops who when he separated from his ex-girlfriend. Threatened to kill her? Yep. But that was one of the ones with Brian, right? Yep. Yep. So the cop who was with Gabby, though, he he's conflicted, You can see it. Yeah, in he doesn't know what to do. Because she's, I mean, it's really difficult because she's saying, but I hit him as well. Like, you know, she's trying to take, I started it because that's what she has been like conditioned to do. This is what police They should be treated that well.

33:13 Well, I believe they had been Yeah, but they just. But why just looking at the two of them, I mean, one of them even says it, and that's in that second lot of footage. Yeah, he even says it. Look, she's 105 lbs soaking wet. Like she's tiny. There's no way that she was going to injure him. She was not powerful enough over him. He was the more physically powerful of the two. Therefore, he is the threat, so even if she is hitting back, he's the one who's gonna hit a lot harder. Well, she had she had a mark on.

33:44 Her face of the mark on her face, the photo that she took herself, even I know, which is only taken 10 minutes or something before they pull her over, pull them over. So they had to have seen those marks on her face. Oh for sure. And like it's under her eye, like that bit looks like a bit on her eye looks horrible, but then you can actually see like a big red mark on her cheek. Yeah, and one further down where you can see where she then in the video clip shows that he's grabbed he's grabbed her here, which again, but by here for those who are listening like he's grabbed her chin, chin kind of thing with one hand like pin in pincer grip, which is classic of that's someone who then will go for a neck if they if he's grabbing her here, it's not much further to go to the neck.

34:23 And then for the strangulation, it is an indicator of someone who is capable of it. Yep. And that should have been picked up immediately, that it doesn't need to be as physical as I think some people think it needs to be for it to escalate. To that the way it had the way, yeah, so. So many points. So many points at the end of all of it and please go and have a look at the at the footage that's available. Google it It's it's it's really it's everywhere like it's readily available. Basically what the police decided to do was to separate them for the night because they they actually had no choice but to act in some way based on the laws they still.

35:01 Didn't follow the law. They they didn't, but they they went. They they. Took a stated. It a little bit yeah, because Gabby wouldn't say that she like say they decided that she was the aggressor that was their take on it which. Because actually, let's talk about that now. Yeah. Why did they think she was the aggressor? Because she admitted to hitting him and but they never asked. Brian, did you hit Gabby? They never asked. Him No, because they were his best mates. I was, I was. It's so awful, it's disgusting.

35:31 So you see them at the back of the van, particularly where it's, and I'm sorry, but I know they put Gabby the car, the police car behind the van. Yeah, she would still be out of here. And see. And see that going on. So as a victim and she was in that moment, not that they were treating her, they weren't. They were somewhat being, they were being somewhat nice, but they didn't ultimately treat her as the victim as she should have been. Well, they, they actually, one of the quotes was, and this isn't a direct quote, but it's something along the lines of it was just a slap fight between lovers.

36:04 Lovers quarrel. Fuck me. So she would have heard all that and seen that. So how's she feeling in the back seat? They're going. I'm being hit on being this, but I make this happen, it's my fault. And then hearing them all jovially chatting and laugh with him. She must have felt so alone and so unsupported to be able to come up and say, you know what, I don't feel safe. Yep. She could not have done that. No. Yeah, you've got his mates hanging around having a chat. His. New mate. Then they're they're laughing and joking around just.

36:37 Gives me that. And they ask, they say to him, did she hit you? And he's like, oh, yeah, it's a boys club. Yeah, it's a total boys club. So what they decide then is under the domestic violence laws in Utah, they need to separate for a night now because they've only got one residence and that is their van. They decide to put Brian because. He's the victim. As the victim into state funded domestic violence emergency care, which was like a motel type thing for the night, they left Gabby to sleep alone.

37:10 Alone in the camper van in the fucking wilderness. Like in the middle of nowhere in bum fuck Utah. Yep, Yep. Like now imagine if I don't know somebody else had have come across her that night. I don't know. Yeah, the liability 100% then is with those. Cops like I just can't. It's like, where's the judgement here? Like, where's the good judgement from them? Yeah, yeah, if nothing else. I wish if that were the worst case scenario of this was that they should have just bloody arrested Gabby if they really thought she was the aggressor.

37:48 Which is what they, which is what they should have done by law. What they should have done, Yep, at least at that point, what would have come out was then it goes through the court system and within a court system it would have, well one, she would have had time to contact her family and get support she needed. Yep, 2 they would have listened to that nine on one call a little bit closer and realized, oh shit, there is actually witnesses to this. They might have even interviewed those people and said what did you see?

38:11 And it would have come out what needed to if they just arrested her. Yep. I just can't. It really irks me it. Like the the liability of the police will come into play a little bit later on. But anyway, it happened the way it happened. Brian spent the night in emergency accommodation paid for by the state and Gabby spent the night in their trans van. She picked him up from the accommodation the next morning and they went on their merry way. Now, so this happened on the 12th of August. On the 17th of August, Brian flies home to Florida and leaves Gabby with the van on her own.

38:52 On her own because she wanted to work on her website content and website or her YouTube channel. Now this, this bit gets me. When they left Florida, Brian hired O'Brien and Gabby hired a storage facility to put all their belongings into. Which, OK, if that's what you need to do, that's maybe your mom and dad didn't want all of your shit at their house. I don't know. He's gone back on the 17th of August. Now, mind you, they've left home on the 2nd of July. He's now back in Florida on the 17th of August to clean up.

39:34 Well, this is his excuse to clean up the storage unit. Yeah. And to save the money because they would maybe think of extending the trip. But yet they flew. He flew, Yeah, and spent money. Yeah, what? It's what he probably saved probably, you know, paid on flights, Yeah. Which again, they paid out of Gabby's account. Yes, it came out of Gabby's account. Yeah. Yeah. OK, Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, I do. I feel like that whole that whole trip was again a control thing. Yeah, he was punishing her. He was punishing her for sure.

40:05 Even his sister said she thought like he she knew that he came back for these five days, so he went back on the 23rd of August and she was like, it was weird. Like why didn't he bring Gabby? I mean I'm sure we'll get into it, but that whole family relationship is fucked up. So it's so fucked up. Yeah, we will get, I think that comes a bit later in a time when we can chat about them. So he flew back into Salt Lake City on the 23rd of August. He's, you know, he apparently was just he'd missed Gabby so much, he just had to get back to her.

40:38 OK, 27th of August is the next big. Yeah, just five days after he gets back. Yep, from this break, I guess that, you know, if you want to call it that, in that they've had a big blow up. Travelling with with a person is, if you want to put a real glaze over this, travelling together is tough. They've had an argument and which has involved police. They've had five days apart from each other to cool everything down. You'd think coming back from that, you know that as a relationship, you know you've missed each other.

41:05 Things were all shiny and good. You know, you'd be like in a good place. Right, right. So it just just adds up to me. But yeah, Yep. So the 27th. Of the 27th. This is the last known sighting of them together. Yeah, they were at the Merry Piglet restaurant, and there were witnesses saying that Brian was, like, screaming at the Hostess. Gabby was in tears. Apologizing for. Him, yeah. I mean his behaviour just sounds absolutely disgusting, like he was being horrible. And it was all female workers. One of the one person really made a point of stating that that it was all females that he was yelling at.

41:45 Just being an absolute pig showing, showing everyone who he really is, yeah. Interesting to pay or something is that? Right. Yeah. He, he thought they didn't get the service they want that he thought he deserved because, you know, God's gift to the world and whatnot. And then Gabby and Brian, the witnesses saw Gabby and Brian sort of fighting because Gabby was so embarrassed by his behaviour, but he obviously thought it was absolutely fine. And so they had an altercation there. And as I said, this is the last known sighting of them together.

42:14 And the police believe that these two witnesses, it was a couple who made contact. They actually saw what had transpired on social media and made contact with the police when they saw Gabby because they're like, oh, she's the girl we saw at the Mary Piglet, at the Mary Piglet. And their account, you know, really went towards and they all of this is backed up by CCTV and everything. Yeah. And by the waitresses in the in the restaurant as well. Yeah. But yeah, they think that that couples the the last people to that they know of to see Gabby alive.

42:46 Yeah. On the 30th of August, there was a text message that came from Gabby's phone to Gabby's mum Nicole it Gabby's mum states that it was a really strange text and this was the start of her suspicion that something was not quite right. So the text, so the text said can you help Stan? I just keep getting his voicemails and missed calls. Stan is Gabby's grandfather. Gabby never referred to him as Stan was always grandpa. So that immediately arose Nicole's suspicion. She's like, well, like, and also Gabby would have called him.

43:33 Like if he was calling her, she wouldn't have, she wouldn't have contacted Nicole to call him. She would have just called him. They had that kind of relationship. They were in contact. And so you know that. So August 30th, she the mum, like Gabby's mum's thinking, Oh yeah, OK, that's strange. Didn't hear anything else from her or any any responses back. We now know that on the 1st of September Brian returns to North Port, FL to his parents home in the van which was a. 40 hour drive. Yep, it was 33 hour drive, 2300 miles or 3700 kilometres from where they were last known to be.

44:17 Crazy. I mean driving that. Yep. So he's driven that distance in probably what was four days. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So wow, there's sorry, I actually went super, super, super deep into the FBI files about this now. They're all available on the FBI website. I'll link it in the show notes, but it's vault.fbi.gov. There are over 400 pages of of documents that relate to this case and Oh my God it blew my mind how just how detailed they are all. Right. Oh. It was I, I was like, oh, I have faith in in all this because they checked literally everything.

45:08 Yeah, they went to every single gas station that he went to. They checked. Like like a debit card? Well, her debit card. He was using her debit card. Yeah, so they wanted to know where he was. Travelling, yeah. So they looked at, they went to everyone. They got CCTV images, Yeah, CCTV footage from every gas station. They confirmed Gabby was not in the van at this point. Gabby was she? Didn't appear in the in the footage anywhere. Snacks or. Anything, yeah and even like a couple of the servos, which you can actually again see CCTV footage online.

45:37 Yeah, you can see into the car like the, the, the CCTV is quite low, so you can actually see people's faces in their cars, right. And yeah, they she's not in the van and there's no, it's not like she could have been sitting in the back. No, because the back was a bit, yeah. There were two seats in this van. That's it. That's it. Yeah. So they the, you know, the FBI have really gone hell for leather in this once. Once it's all been reported through to them. Yeah, but on. So Brian arrives September 1st at his family's house.

46:09 September 11th is the day that Gabby's family reports her missing in the lead up to this. So from the last contact that they supposedly had from her, which probably wasn't her on the 30th of August, all the way through to the 11th of September, they have tried everything they can to contact Gabby. Now at first they're saying to themselves, oh, they're travelling, they're in the wilderness, they're in national parks, there's no phone reception. Yeah, it wasn't like Gabby to go that long without contacting her family.

46:38 She was kind of at least in contact with them daily if she could, if not every other day, Well. If she wasn't contacting them, she was posting the social media. Yeah. So there was some way of if they weren't actually physically like speaking to her or getting a receiving a direct text message, they at least could check her social media and say, oh, that's where they are today, you know, so and all that went dead. Yeah, yeah. And so they've reported her missing to Suffolk County with. D also in that time they also were contacting, sorry, Brian's parents to say, have you heard from the kids because there was a relationship there.

47:08 Obviously, Gabby having lived with them of like, you know, have you guys heard from them because we haven't like very Azure would, wouldn't you? Oh, absolutely. And what did they do? Blocked their phone and blocked them on Facebook. Yep, there was no way of Gabby's family contacting them. They blocked them, they just didn't answer them, not even pick up the phone and say we don't know. Yep, they blocked them. Because they knew the police, so they reported this to Suffolk County PD in New York on at 6:55 PM that night, the police knocked on the laundry's door in Florida.

47:44 So the police acted on this very quickly to their absolute credit. Absolutely. And I love, like, you can hear and see a lot of the different, like even there's a body Cam footage of a police officer who attended the laundry's home, then speaking to a detective in New York who'd had contact with with Gabby's family. Yep, and they're all over it. Like they're they're they're communicating so well. I. Mean because the nothing's falling through, they have slightly different ways protocols, but they also have slightly different laws on things.

48:14 And so they try they've, you know, got to manage it in terms of what the New York detective wants to have happen and what the Florida police officer can actually enact on, you know, it can be slightly different. So they're both trying to work through that. Yeah. It's really interesting watching that body Cam footage. Don't like how on top of it they are of getting what they need. Yeah, and nothing's slipping through the cracks. They're communicating every little tiny bit of information there. Highly respectful of the laundries, I have to say.

48:38 Like they were not. Aggressive. No. No, they gave them every opportunity. To be reasonable, to be reasonable about it. Yep. Yeah. And they weren't. So when they knocked on, when the police knocked on the laundry's door, the dad, Chris and mother Roberta appear. So there's like a little like sunroom type thing, and then there's their front door and the police don't even go past the sunroom door. They literally go front and knock the door and then he exits himself. Back out. He gives them again, being incredibly respectful.

49:09 Yeah. He then says, you know, is Brian home? And they say any questions you have, you need to contact our lawyer. I can give you his number. So this is 11 PMI think Florida time, ten, 11:00 at night. Yeah, so it was late. Yeah. And the police officers like, well, I'm not going to call your lawyer at 11:00 at night. I'm just asking you if Brian's here. Yeah. And they say. Answers real quick here is if Gabby and and Brian are. Here. Come on then, we're all good. We just tell the parents that's where she is, you know?

49:37 So they and he's like, Yep, Brian's here. And they say, well, is Gabby here? And he's like, no. Contact our lawyer. We're not talking to you. We will not speak. We, yeah, we have nothing further to say. They are fucking feral humans. This only made me even hate them more like if I could, they were. So in that instance of like enact your 5th Amendment right, understand that you don't want to speak to law enforcement, but answer the question, do you know where Gabby is? I am sorry, but invoking the 5th amendment when your daughter-in-law is missing.

50:16 Who you say you love. Yeah, I mean, you said it before, like Gabby wanted to share her wedding plans with her mother-in-law. Like exactly They had they had a relationship. And then to go and do that, I just can't. And it's an enabling freaking narcissist son. Well, this is exactly how this has been developed. Been able to develop to this point is his mother. Yep. I'm sorry, I'm gonna get angry. Get angry. Get angry because it is. This is not. OK, an enabling piece of shit. Yep, has allowed her son to become the full blown narcissist that he did because without that he would have been had been pulled into line earlier to not behave this way.

50:55 But the fact is that his family enabled this shit is exactly why it got to this. They are to blame. They are to blame. They are. They are. And I mean, obviously Brian is 100% to blame, but they at the core of it. Yeah. You back your son, Absolutely. You support him and everything? I Yes. But you support your son to do the right thing. But you do the right thing. Like yes, yes you would support them like you'd never. I would never abandoned my child, however, I would also I would the the expectation is that they would do the right thing and I would support them in doing that.

51:29 Yes, I'd get them, you know the legal means, but that that you know that they required. I would do anything I could to help them, but I would like they they knew what he'd done at this point. A. 100%. Oh, we know. We know they knew. Well, we do and we don't. As in, like in the deposition, they still won't admit that they knew she was dead. They they knew she was. Gone or gone? Yes. God, Yep. Yep, Now I'm sorry, any parent in that phone call they talk about and we can sort of maybe jump in here, I don't know, but there's so in the deposition that they, because they're the lawsuit that the Potato and Schmidt family enacted upon the laundries in respect to what was it called.

52:10 That lawsuit was I had it highlighted. They, oh God, they sued them for and where's my piece of paper? So they sued them originally for wrongful death, but then no. But then they sued. Them for intentional infliction of emotional distress. That's it. Including their lawyer, which I fully agree with. Yep. So basically this is them suing them for the fact that they knew where that Gabby was dead if at very least and didn't inform the police and have and allow Brian to speak to or not that Brian didn't step forward and speak to the police.

52:44 But they knew that this was at the point of we're looking for a body, not a person. Yeah, you know, walking around. And they could, they should have followed through and let police know that. Yeah. So in the deposition, the they asked them multiple times what happened. And there was a so the the his, their dad, his dad, Christopher says there was a phone call, a frantic phone call on the 29th of August from Brian saying that Gabby is gone. Now any reasonable parent would say, I'm sorry, mate, mate, mate, calm down.

53:18 Gone. What do you mean by gone? Gone. Gone. What do you mean gone? And that answer needs to be she's gone for a walk, she's gone to X place, she's gone home, she's gone as in she's dead. Now, if you are not anything other than an enabling fucking moron, you know how to interpret that without If you're not going to answer, if you don't ask the question, you know the answer. What do you I could not, I could not agree with you more. They didn't ask the question because they didn't want to know what the answer was and at that or did they ask the question and they're just perjuring themselves in when they're in their deposition?

53:53 Is fucked up like. They they knew like you can't convince me they didn't that absolutely they're they are criminally liable in my opinion. Have you read the?

54:06 Burn after reading Yes. Better yes. Do you want us to? Read it. Yeah, I think we should. Do you want to maybe go back and, like, in terms of the timeline, get to that point? Because I think there's a little bit more context that we can give to that before we get to that point. Is that all right? Yeah. So September 16th, there's a press conference held where Gabby's dad fronts the media and he begs for Gabby's return. But mostly it's about getting Brian to speak up. So he's, he's begging Brian. He's like, I know you're at home.

54:38 I know you're, I know you know, we just need to find Gabby. Please, whatever you do. If nothing else, if you loved Gabby at all, you would tell us. Even if he just said we lot we separated last at X campsite. Yep, that's the last place I saw. Whatever, September 16th and 17th as well. Laundry's sister speaks to, I mean Good Morning America. They interview her on her front lawn with her husband. Oh well then Good Morning Australia that interviewed her. It was actually protesters who went out to her house.

55:10 They'd been out the front of the the Laundry's house multiple, multiple mornings and evenings, yelling at them to tell them where Gabby was. Is this that? Is this that blonde woman with the megaphone? The Yeah, she's cool. She's amazing. So it's her and this other guy who actually when they they go to protest out the front of them right after her comments on another on Good Morning Australia, I think were. Good Morning, America. When I say Australia, yeah, sorry. Yeah. So I think that her comments and I agree with her.

55:39 She was, it was misquoted. Yep. In an article, I think it was, yeah. And so I think after that article was released, they went and protested at her house, believing that, oh, she's the same as them, you know, and her and her husband came out to say because we've got our kids inside who are crying because they've heard you yelling out, you know, that they're awful stuff. They're auntie, basically. Yeah. And we haven't had that conversation with them like. Because at this point they don't know anything.

56:07 Yeah. So that's, yeah, that is actually protesters that they were talking to. Right. And then and then that was aired online. A lot of it was, so it's a 20 minute it's. Going to YouTube, it's when you watch the whole. Thing they give the all credit to both of them. They gave them plenty of time and they were saying things as they said. We're probably saying too much. We shouldn't be. We've been told not to talk, but we're sick of this and we need to say something because hey, reasonable people, no, that things should be said.

56:33 And they, they were kept in the dark. I mean, their story is that they didn't know anything and they were learning things as the rest of the public were. Learning things I actually. Believe. I fully believe her. Yeah. I I you look at her face, you can see she's really distressed. She loved Gabby. She even says that she loved Gabby. Like her sister, her. One of the five that maybe Brian was the golden child. Oh, obviously, I mean. She was not. No exactly if. You want to go down that path and look into what narcissist and how narcissist developed.

57:01 Another narcissist. Yeah. Yeah. And what Golden Child and everything? That's a whole other podcast. We can go into another day. Yeah. Absolutely. But yeah, it, it, it's it, it has followed that pattern in this, in this family. Yeah. Cassie, one of her quotes from that interview was obviously me and my family want Gabby to be found safe. She's like a sister and my children love her. All I want is for her to come home safe and sound and for this to be a misunderstanding. I felt for her in that. Because you think you'd be so desperate that, I mean, even if your brother is an asshole, you would never want to believe that he's a murderer.

57:35 Oh, no. You know, So she's, she's trying to unpack all of this. Well, the rest of the world's unpacking it. And, like, well, poor her. Yeah, poor her. But yeah, I mean, she talks in that in that that that if I want to call it interview or not, but she talks at that point about the camping trip that they went on. So Brian arrived back on the 1st of September to his family home and was it the 5th? Of September 5th, yeah. 5th to the 6th, they've gone on a camping trip and this sister, she went as well, like but completely oblivious to be honest, by the sounds of things.

58:09 And she regrets now that she didn't pick up on any vibes of anything. Again, the enabling parents have probably just swept all under the rug. We're just on our camping trip. They only stayed for a few like for six hours, I think she said because they've got young kids have to go to school the next day. They're hooked up to have like, you know, a bit of a, you know, muck around to the campsite and, you know, and have some dinner with the with them all because they haven't seen Brian much since he's come back from his big fan life trip.

58:33 So she's a bit, I think, you know, oblivious at this point and. And I think she believed that Gabby was just back, like working on social media. But again, it's very telling how she didn't know. Well, she didn't feel she could ask questions. No. So I feel like she yes, she didn't ask the. Right. So she's been groomed as well. Exactly. She knows that this family is not one that you question. What Brian, Christopher and Roberta have going on You, you are better off staying out of that. Yeah, just to wind back just a tiny little bit, the police actually set up surveillance cameras and were surveilling the laundry's home during this time.

59:11 They put surveillance cameras like all around the house, not not on their property, yeah, but on neighbours properties on. Neighbours like Yep, get them. Yeah, they're like, yeah, sure. Go ahead. Like put stuff up. So there was there was footage of Roberta, like I think Brian was hiding out in a shed, like a big shed. Leave that that we don't know. Well, no, they think. They think he was in there for. A bit. It says that people thought he was living in a bloody garden bed too. Oh, what? I didn't hear that.

59:36 I know. That yeah, yeah, this is, I remember that at the time. There's a there's footage of them which God, this is all going on and they go out gardening. I couldn't anyway, so. Roberta stuck at home, though. Roberta and Christopher are out gardening and there's footage of where people believe. They see a hand pop out of like a garden bed and they think that that Brian's living under the garden bed. I did not know that. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. But look, whether or not he was living in the shed, Roberta was.

1:00:04 Oh, that's so funny. Roberta was back and forth to the shed. So they think maybe Brian was in there, I guess. But even though the police were surveilling them, Brian managed to get out. The police thought that it was Roberta leaving the house and so obviously she wasn't somebody they were necessarily interested in following. So thinking it was Roberta, they have not followed. And on the 17th of September, the Laundry's actually they reported Brian missing. So going back slightly, what date was it that he supposedly he left on that camping trip that he went on I. Think it was the sure the 14th, 4th, Yeah, 14th or 15th?

1:00:48 Because on the 15th of September, Christopher and Roberta go to that camp entry, Yep. Collect the Mustang car that Brian drove to there and brought it home? Yep. So they. Knew where he went and they knew to collect the car from there. As if like to say, we know he's not walking back out of that camping trip and coming home in that car.

1:01:13 Just leave that with you. But then like, how could they be complicit in this in what was to come next? Oh. My like, I'm like, did they go and get the car because they wanted, they wanted their car back? No, they knew what he was going to do. But how as a parent, could you allow like I? No, they're not fucking human. Yeah, they're not human. Yeah. Yeah, at this point, Brian was named a person of interest. So on this 15th of September, he was actually named a person of interest, but never a suspect.

1:01:49 And because he was only named a person of interest, the police couldn't actually compel him to talk to them. And so basically at this point, any contact the police had is through this lawyer who a week before anyone knew Gabby was even missing, was paid a $25,000 retainer by the laundry family. That's an also. On that 29th of August phone call, that frantic phone call where he told his dad that Gabby was gone. He that was when he hung up from that phone call the father and rang the lawyer. I'm helping you, mate, because there was 20.

1:02:24 He rang his dad 20 times in those two days, I believe. Yes, after that. So yeah, on that trip back, he was on the phone constantly to his dad. Don't can't tell me they didn't know anything. Oh. Absolutely. Yeah.

1:02:40 The laundries. We have since found out we're also quite rich. Yeah, yeah. Now I've seen I've seen it written in multiple different places and the amount's the same everywhere I've looked into. It I wasn't, I've only found it one spot, a reputable spot. Yep, and that was when I think I said it to you going Yep, can you see this? Sorry because I can't. Verify anywhere else. Two other places that they were worth $7,000,000. Now they're home. Very modest, nice, neat looking house prices. Well, I looked into it.

1:03:10 Yeah, OK, good. And a house like that is somewhere in the 250 to $400,000 range. That makes me sick for what we pay here in Australia, I know. Right. I mean it's a nice, but it's a single story weather board type home like there's nothing or stucco home. There's nothing special about it. It's on a decent size block I guess, but it's not what you would think of 7 million. $7,000,000 in assets like. You know what? I. Mean like there's cash rich and then there's asset rich, which can be, yeah, who knows?

1:03:42 Oh yeah.

1:03:45 Yeah. Well, I hope the settlement was good. We, well, we don't know. No, we don't. Yeah. So 17th of September. They Laundry's family have reported him missing on the. 18th they knew he was missing 2 days prior when they went and picked up his car. Yeah, let's be honest. Yeah, yeah, this, that bit I can't get my head around Like I, I, there is nothing logical in my brain that goes, oh, yeah, that's, that's why that happened. September 18th. The, you know, we're now searching for two people. We're searching for Gabby still, because she still hasn't been found and no information has been forthcoming from anyone.

1:04:22 And they're also now looking for Brian the next day on the 19th of September in 2021 remains that a consistent with a very small female were found and the following day, I think no two days later were confirmed to be Gabby's. It's it's so tragic, but I find the way that this all came about really interesting. There was another van life YouTube family who were travelling in the same area as Gabby and Brian. And when all this sort of was coming out on social media, they were like, oh, we were in that area around the same time.

1:05:07 I wonder if we've got any footage because they would, they'd take footage of themselves driving through themselves. Yeah. And so the mum goes back and she's like looking through all their footage and what does she find? She finds their van parked, Not even parked. It looks like it's just been like, I don't know, dumped on the side of this sort of track. It's not even a road. Yeah. And she's like, oh, my God, that's the van. That's the van you can see. The Florida plates you can. See the Florida number plates?

1:05:35 She lets the police know and they find Gabby's body within 300 metres of that van. Of the van in that footage of where the van was. Sorry, you can. Actually see that Brian was in the car at the time. Oh. Can. You Yeah, didn't you see that again? So again, you two other Tiktok sleuths got onto it. One of the guys was able to enhance the footage. That much you can see see the back door of that van close. Yeah. And so. And you can see there's actually his shoes just outside the van. You can see all that happen as they as she pulls up.

1:06:04 It's really hard to see. But when he enhances it, it's really obvious. Yeah. So he was in the van at the time, which I mean, she that family, they feel like not that they could they would know to even, you know, because they're also from Florida. She was like, we saw the Florida plates, like, oh, we could talk to them like we're all from Florida. But then as they drove past, they were like, Oh no, there's no one there. Oh well, they've. Got to keep driving like. You know, maybe we'll see them at the campsite, you know, because which is along that road.

1:06:28 We'll keep an eye out for them and, you know. Yeah. And that's obviously exactly when. Yep. Yep. So, I mean, thanks to social media, this, you know, they were able to find Gabby's body quicker than they probably would have otherwise. Yeah. So yes, she's they've picked, picked, you know, discovered Gabby's body, Gabby's remains. The autopsy confirmed that Gabby had been strangled.

1:06:59 I can't even the medical examiner or the coroner basically stated that her estimated time of death was between three and four weeks prior to when she was found, which really fits the timeline of of it matches up to when that family had driven through and located their van and then Brian's subsequent movements. Kind of everything, just everything tied up in with that. Yeah, roughly that 27th of August date. And I, I'm, I'm hoping that you found something because I certainly couldn't, because I have many questions about that autopsy report, mainly how her body was, whether it was buried or just on the ground.

1:07:46 I think it was on the ground, I think there was. Some I think it's been released I that the the autopsy report that like yeah, you can't Get full access to the full report from what I've been able. To No, you can't. Even in the FBI, actually. Illegal for them to release it in that county where in in Yeah. So whereas Brian's one has been released entirely because Florida laws. Allow it. So from what I can gather, that report can't be seen. In the FBI documents, they refer to it, but a lot, even the references are redacted.

1:08:18 Yeah. Yeah, because there's. So I had questions around. Yeah, how her body. Yeah. So that that's 300 meters from where that van is, is where her body was found because then it was her body put there was that moved there? Was that where it occurred was and also was there the blunt force trauma to the head? Is that a head, head, head bump on the forward where in a later situation it's mentioned by Brian that he that he talks about a bump on the head or because I know when they talk about throttling and that sort of thing answer and they talked about that petition was hit around the sides of her face from what I could read of what was released, but no mention of particularly the forehead being hit.

1:09:00 So I just had many questions. Yeah, I mean, as just answers, as you said, there's no answers out there necessarily. There's some, I don't even know where this information came from, but there's some information about the position of her body, like she was like on her side, almost curled up like her. I mean that what they found was skeletal remains. It's not like they found a body. Yeah, but you know, it looks as though maybe she didn't die straight away. She's kind of like gone into the fetal position on the side.

1:09:30 I haven't been able to substantiate that though, whether that's true or not. Yeah, because that probably doesn't align with the strangulation. No. So yeah, no. OK. But then that's what people are saying. Like if she was in that position, had he not quite killed her? Or was it the blunt force trauma that ended up killing her? Don't know. The autopsy report very clearly states the strangulation. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. Because, OK, right. Yeah. When we get to that bit. And I guess when when these documents aren't released, people are speculating and it's very easy to speculate on TikTok.

1:10:03 Oh, yeah, that's why I like to read it in autopsy reports. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. So now that we found Gabby, thankfully, and, and Gabby's family are very grateful for that fact. And you know, we still now don't know what's happened to Brian or where he is or what's going on. On the 23rd of September, an arrest warrant is issued for Brian in Wyoming through the US District Court. But all that they could get him on was intent to defraud because they were able to prove that he'd used her, her credit card or her debit card and her PIN when he was buying.

1:10:44 Well, they actually got him only on one charge of it because that there's only one CCTV where they can see him in putting the PIN into the pad and it was for like a $33 fuel charge. Gotta get him on something though because. But they had to get him on something. That was the only question I had with the autopsy report that I wanted to find was whether or not there was DNA found like under her fingernails and things like that. You know, that transfer, not just like not just a hair on of his on her body because that's easily transferable.

1:11:07 I wanted to see evidence that would 100% link, but not because I questioned whether or not it was him that was that did it. She had no flexion to make. Sure, that I know, but to make sure that they were able to get it like that there was a definitive it was him, he was. There nail in the coffin, so to speak. That there was just, yeah, like they could still get something under fingernails potentially. I don't know. A reward was offered for Laundry's arrest on the 25th of September and on the 26th of September Gabby's family held a memorial service for her in New York in Holbrook, NY.

1:11:41 This was beautiful. There were two fire so the local fire station decided to send 2 fire trucks and almost make a guard of honor for Gabby. So his step dad was a fireman? Yeah. Oh, that's yeah. So, you know, lots of, you know, huge amounts of respect there. They had pictures and lovely things that Gabby had done, you know, adorning the fire trucks. And so many people came out to pay their respects. And obviously, because this had been such a a media and social media heart sort of thing, there were people who didn't know Gabby still, you know, making the effort to attend.

1:12:15 And her family really appreciated that. They understood that, you know, it was because of people sleuthing and looking around that Gabby was found as quickly, you know, as as she was. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in that position to be burying a child of yours who and, you know, thinking about her last moments and what that would have been. Her mom says that she likes to focus on the positives or the the nice parts of this. And one of those things is she said at least Gabby had seen some really beautiful things in her last few weeks.

1:12:53 And she said, I that's what I hold on to. I don't want to think about the awful experiences that she had. Look at the amazing things that she was able to do. Yeah. Oh, the strength of that woman. Yeah. The strength of the whole family. But she's. Amazing. The fact they've got each other is what gets them through, thankfully. Yeah. Such a supportive network there. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Brian's family is still not really cooperative with police, even though their son's missing September the 27th.

1:13:22 They speak to the police very briefly and just basically say Oh well we don't know where he is on the 7th of October. So a few weeks later, I guess they decide to help out, no? No, no, no, not the 7th. The 7th of October. The water recedes enough that they can get to various different parts of the park. OK, right. So from the 7th of September, October, this October? Sorry, they're still quiet. OK, but Brian's dad helps out that day, did he? Yeah, I think he joined the 1st. Time they joined their search was the day his body was found.

1:14:01 Oh, right. Which was what? The 20th? 20 October? The 20th. And literally dog an hour, 45 minutes, I think even of them helping to search. They find his remains. They first find belongings. Yeah, first of all, belongings. And then they see him right next to it. They find the skeletal remains. Yeah. And it's pretty obvious that he has died of a gunshot wound to his head. Yep, now this screams to me that they have negotiated with police complete immunity. We'll show you where his body is if you promise us we're not going to get any charges for.

1:14:45 It. It's that to me, that's the only, I don't know how on earth do you think that they've been searching that place for like a month? Yeah. Yeah. And no sight of him whatsoever cannot find him. The water recedes on October 7th to where where he was found was then exposed, which was only about I believe it was only a 10 minute. Walk. Yeah, it was. To that from the entry of the park, it was only about a 10 minute walk into where he was found. Yep. So it wasn't like he'd gone depths of this. It was a huge 25,000 acre, you know, like.

1:15:18 National wetlands or something, yeah. So he was only 10 minutes in. So they but his dad was able to walk in there when with 45, within 45 minutes they found stuff and it's the only day they go out there and look, they had negotiated immunity.

1:15:37 I can't, I can't. The thing I just cannot get my head around is that they knew he was going to kill himself and did nothing. I think that they knew this is where I screamed that they knew what he did. That edit hit. Brian had told them what he what that he had done. They knew that he was going to spend his life in jail if he was, if everything played out to where he was in took, taken in custody by police. So they've, I reckon, as a family, they've discussed this. As in, like, yeah, I think you're probably best off killing yourself.

1:16:08 Kill yourself or you know, you go to jail for life and he's then gone and chosen. Kill his. Kill himself. I just, I actually feel sick thinking about that. I that is impulsive. That is, that is Oh my God, if that's the case, that is so fucked up. I no. I I can't, I don't understand it any other way and I and I don't even understand that, but I can't get any other story that makes sense. That is what parent what, like even, OK, let's just say, let's just say we go down the path of Yep, we're going to go to the police.

1:16:46 We're going to tell them what happened. Yep, you might get 25 years. You don't know what you're going to be sentenced to. Wouldn't you rather chance it? Chance it Well, as they say, like you know, you don't. You never plead guilty to murder because you've all you know. Why not see what you can? You can get see. What comes out in the wash? Yeah, see what you can put forward and get jury to. Believe. Oh my God, I I actually can't. I actually just can't. No, it's disgusting. Maybe this is the point where we read that letter.

1:17:13 Yep, I think that's a really because. This is the parent that does that. Now look reading this letter this. Is from. Roberta from Roberta So she she gave him a letter and now she claims that this letter was written prior to them leaving on their trip across America. But this was found. Well, there's I don't know where they found it actually, because someone says that FBI had it prior to him being found. I've seen elsewhere that was found with the body. I think I've the most things I've seen is that they found it in his dry bag.

1:17:47 Yeah, I believe it was found in the dry bag, but somewhere else I was. Ready, which was with his found. Yeah, which I and that somewhere else I read was that if I had it already, but I don't know. OK, I'm not sure they originally they released snippets of it, but this is the full letter that she gave to Brian supposedly, which is it's not dated or anything like that. So we don't we can't categorically say when it was written. Yep. But she says she gave it to Brian as they left for their trip across the the country and that apparently they had an in joke about a book that they both they all they both enjoyed called Burn after Writing.

1:18:21 And so that apparently writing on the envelope of this letter, Burn after reading is purely in relation to that and nothing else. But that's her take. This letter reads. I just want to I just want you to remember I will always love you. I know you will always love me. You are my boy. Nothing can make me stop loving you. Nothing will or could ever divide us. No matter what we do or where we go or what we say, we will always love each other. If you're in jail, I will bake a cake with a file in it.

1:18:52 If you need to dispose of a body, I will show up with a shovel and garbage bags. If you fly to the moon, I will be watching the skies for your re entry. If you say you hate my guts, I'll get new guts. Remember that love is a verb, not a noun. A noun, Sorry, it's not a thing. It's not words, it is actions. Watch people's actions to know if they love you, not their words. Therefore I am certain that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor the ruling spirits, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers from above, nor powers from below.

1:19:25 Nothing in the entire create world can separate our love. Neither hostile powers, nor messages of heaven, nor monarchs of earth. Nothing has the power to separate us. Romans 838 extended version. Nothing can separate us. Not hatred, not hunger, not homelessness, not threats, not even sin, not the thinkable or unthinkable can get between us. Not time, Not miles and miles and miles. I don't even know where to start with that. I I don't think we can because we will literally be here for another hour.

1:20:05 Yeah, that, that says a lot. Yeah, it says. What kind of mum? I think she is. Yep. As we both said, we would stand by a child. Of course. But to do the right thing, yes. Not and get you out of jail and I'll bring the garbage. Back and I'll, I'll bake a Shiv into a cake so you can like, you know, fuck shit up in jail. She is diabolical. Like she's pathological. Yeah. Yeah.

1:20:32 It's just, it's just too much. It's just too much on the 22nd. Oh, sorry. In November 2022, a Florida judge awarded Gabby's family a wrongful death suit against Brian Laundry's estate to the tune of $3,000,000. But he didn't have assets totalling anywhere near that. I don't think they've actually seen any of that money, but it was validating for them to absolutely have them just a figuratively. Yeah. They weren't value like that kind of thing. They won't see that money. Yeah. And not nor do they necessarily want to.

1:21:02 That wasn't the idea behind it. They wanted everyone to know that Brian had Brian was was was culpable and he'd killed Gabby Absolutely. In 2024, the Potato family and the Schmidt family sued Brian's parents, claiming they know. They knew that their son had killed Gabby and had intentionally withheld that information. That you can read the. What did you say? 700 day, 700 pages of. It did go pretty deep. It goes deep. But it just goes to show how fucked up. Yeah. The laundry family are. Oh, man, you.

1:21:41 They're so evasive. It's horrible. Yeah. So that deposition was in October in 2023? Yeah, that was then. They then decided from that that, yes, this should go to trial with a jury. Mm hmm. Which was slated for May 2024. Yep. But in February this year, they actually settled. Yep, which is undisclosed. We don't know what the, the amount or anything was or what the settlement deal was really. It was always all kept under wraps. But I believe that they, they've come, they've come to a agreement that the laundry family knew enough that they should have, that they did behave despicably.

1:22:17 Apparently there was. It was language like that used. There was certain, yeah, that there was definitely culpable enough that there was enough to settle that it should. Yeah, it it, it went in. They they basically. The potato and Schmidt. They, I think if they went to the jury like it was, would have been a landslide to be honest. I think there was plenty of evidence there to to show that these people are fucking motherfuckers. Absolutely so. The other aspect of this thing was what was found with Brian, which was one particular bit of evidence, was a confession letter.

1:22:52 Have you read it? Yes. Yeah. It is the most narcissistic, awful piece of shit I have ever read in my life. And look, we could be here for another day if we picked it entirely apart. Yep. But there's just a few things I wanted to note from that disgusting letter. You can go online and you can see look it's a the letter itself was obviously in a notepad. It was got wet. So reading it from its original state is quite hard to do. But you can find it transcribed in multiple places. But we can also link that in our show notes.

1:23:23 That letter was released by his look by the lawyer, the family lawyer on this on a Friday, which happens to be the day that any publicist releases things that they don't want a story on. It's like Berry day. You release things on a Friday. Not only that, it was the same day as the Roe V Wade overturn, so that. Was so strategic. So strategic and he was saying he released it to be transparent, but that's the most untransparent. Way to do it? To do it. I'll just read a couple of little bits out of that letter that really got to me.

1:23:58 So he's basically inferring in this letter that Gabby injured herself and he had to kill her. It was like a mercy killing, so he says. When I pulled Gabby out of the water, she couldn't tell me what hurt. She had a small bump on her forehead and eventually got larger. Her feet hurt, her wrist hurt, but she was freezing, shaking violently while carrying her. She continually made sounds of pain laying next to her. She said little between violent shakes, gasping in pain, begging for an end to her pain.

1:24:30 She would fall asleep and I would shake her awake, fearing she shouldn't close her eyes. If she had a concussion, she would wake in pain, start her whole painful cycle again. And then there's like an illegible bit furious that I was the one making her. Then a little bit later down she he says. I don't know the extent of Gabby's injuries, only that she was in extreme pain. I ended her life. I thought it was merciful that it, that it is what she wanted. But I see now all the mistakes I made. I panicked.

1:25:03 I was in shock. But from the moment I decided took away her pain, I knew I couldn't go on without her. I have killed myself by this creak in the hopes that animals may tear me apart, that it may make some of her family happy. Please pick up all of my things. Gabby hated people who litter and that is literally the end of the note.

1:25:26 So first of all, that letter jumps around in past and present tense all over the shop. Not only that, the first paragraph is it actually is addressed to Gabby. Yep. But within that first paragraph that supposedly speaking speaking to Gabby, he says the word I8 times. Funny that narcissist saying I 8 times in one paragraph. Yeah. Now I have many issues with his story of how it took place. First and foremost, her body was found 300 metres from. The car, the car, or from where the car was? Yeah, he's saying this is how that this played out, right?

1:26:06 But he couldn't carry her any further. She weighed what was it, 105 lbs which is like 50. Something he was, he kept, they kept going. He kept going on about how good a hiker he was and how great he was at at all this stuff at wilderness stuff, being a survival man. What he didn't have any first aid equipment on him. No lighting because it was it was dark. He said as well. They had no what like headlamp thing or anything like that. They had no light. He had no, I'm sorry, but she was a vlogger. She would have had her phone with her.

1:26:33 At very least use that as a torch. But. They wouldn't have been out there without a torch. This is it. They wouldn't have been. So there's fault in that I can see. But also if they would have had a cell phone, there was full cell service in that area. Call 911. Call for help. He never called out, never did any of that. He was he the way he described it in that letter is if he is in the they have been out in the wilderness for days dealing with this like that. She's got this if anything, she's tripped in a Creek and yet indicate hit her head or something right and she's what begging for him to end her life.

1:27:10 That's what someone does who's fallen from a Cliff and broken every bone in their body. That's not a the reaction of someone who's tripped and fallen and bumped their head. None of it actually makes any sense. He apparently built a fire with what? What? He had a Flint on him at the time. Like why did he have a Flint and not a freaking torch? Like I just don't. None of it makes sense. No, none of it makes sense. Like he's he's again, he's constructing or trying to build a narrative around what happened.

1:27:41 It's not true. Oh, he fucking killed her because he was jealous or pissed off or rageful about something Like don't don't even make that's. It's just so freaking insulting. Oh, yeah. That he's gone down that path. It makes me so mad. Yeah, it makes me so angry. How fucking dare he put that on to Gabby Exactly in her fault. Yeah, like. I want me to do it. But that, again, that speaks to his. It's never the narcissist's fault. No, no, no. It's always someone else. Yeah. Someone else is always to blame.

1:28:11 And then he's done the right thing by killing himself. So her family will be OK because he's so good. So her family will get a bit of justice. He's. Gross. He is fucked up and you know what? Good fucking riddance. Nothing better than him being dead. Yep, other than maybe being beating the shit out of jail every other day. Yep. I honest to God I just can't. The fact that he said in there I ended her life and didn't know what her injuries were. Who does that? Who ends someone's life but not know what the injuries are?

1:28:45 And as you said, it's not like she'd fallen off a Cliff. And like it was very clear that even then, you don't kill someone. You do everything you. Can get into a. Fucking even if, even if you can't pick her up and carry her. OK, worst case scenario, no, get in and say your phone's got no battery. OK, cool. Yeah, get in the car, go and get help and bring help back to her. Made it that. But nobody made that. That was her fault too. He she kept telling him not to don't go, don't go. Well, she's talking to you and saying enough to say don't go, stay with me.

1:29:15 She's not ready to die. Dude. Oh I fast not not. That letter is the biggest piece of fucking shit. And the thing that then ultimately gets me is it takes a minimum 62 seconds to strangle someone up to like a minute and 1/2. I've even read up to three minutes it. Can be 3 or 4 minutes for some people depending on how big their neck is and all these sorts of things. The pressure it takes, but for how small she was, let's work off of the fastest possible timing. You're looking at a good minute of holding her and watching her go through that, you fucking piece of shit.

1:29:56 And you couldn't stop yourself. So he's an evil piece of shit. I've got tears in my eyes. I, I can't. I just actually can't. You can't. You can do that. That you are not human. That's not merciful. There's nothing merciful about that, no. I think we leave it on that note because, like, we could literally discuss this and and get angry, get angry. Yeah, this could escalate real quick. I mean, it's escalated, but. I think we're all hormonal too. It doesn't help. It doesn't. It really doesn't. Just really quickly.

1:30:31 Thank you again to everybody for listening to another episode of Two Crime Besties. We love doing this every week. It is the highlight of my week. I absolutely love it. Always look forward to Fridays. Why is it? The crime calms me some way. Yeah, it does. It does. We have a Buy me a Coffee so 2 crime. It's Buy Me a coffee.com/two Crime Besties. If you want to donate a coffee or a wine to us, we would be very appreciative, but by no means is that necessary. We would really appreciate mostly if people can like, follow, comment on our content.

1:31:05 That really helps get us out to more and more people. And we just love the conversation about it, too. Exactly. I love, I love that we now have a lot of regular listeners who we don't know. It's funny. Because we're starting some back and forth conversation with certain people like that are really enjoying it, so it's really lovely. And you know, we bullied all of our friends and family into listening, and now we've got actual people who we don't know listening to us genuinely. Wanna yeah. Next week, we are going to be talking about the Maria Corp case.

1:31:31 So she's the body in the boot. Yeah, this is a really fascinating one. Again, we're sort of zooming back to Australia based in in Victoria near us again. So stay tuned for that one next week. And thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, everyone. Stay curious. Kind of besties.