Episode 12 - Golden State Killer

0:15 Welcome back everybody, to Two Crime Besties for another

0:19 episode. We're back.

0:21 We're back. Yay.

0:23 We've had a really short turn around time this time because we

0:26 ended up recording our last episode a little later in the

0:28 week than we normally do, so we've had slightly less time to

0:32 do the research on this one, but that's OK.

0:35 It'll be all right, Emerald, Emerald, get us together and

0:37 we'll be right. That's.

0:38 It exactly. Oh, sure, sure, sure.

0:40 No pressure. Yeah, No pressure.

0:41 None. None.

0:42 None at all. I've just noticed that for

0:47 anybody who's actually watching the video of us doing this, we

0:50 have dressed the same again today.

0:51 Yeah, Yep, we've both gone with the green things.

0:54 Were somewhat different. I know we've done other days

0:57 it's been even worse. So yeah.

0:58 Yeah, we've had matchy, matchy and I've had to go and get

1:00 changed. Yes, it's funny how it works

1:05 like that. Oh.

1:05 Man, is that the sign of like, what's that a sign of?

1:09 Is it knowing each other too well?

1:11 Maybe, I don't know, it's. Not like we rang each other last

1:14 time I went Hey green tomorrow. I'm matching up in many ways

1:16 lately. It's not good.

1:20 Oh, that's it. That's it.

1:21 What's been happening in the last few days for you?

1:24 Oh man, it's been a crazy week. So much stuff going on this

1:28 week. My head's all over the place so

1:30 I apologise now. No, that's gonna make for a

1:32 really fun episode. It's like I've been drinking

1:35 when I haven't been drinking. Isn't it OK?

1:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.

1:39 There's like my week has been crazy.

1:40 I'm I'm really again, I think I said this same last week and

1:44 it's just carrying on. I'm over people, people.

1:47 I just. I don't know.

1:48 Yeah, there's some real, real assholes that just like to screw

1:52 with your day, Yeah. Yeah, I hear you.

1:54 Yeah, I hear you. But and I think winter and

1:57 especially now we're sort of in the depths of winter.

1:59 I'm hoping by the time this episode's released actually,

2:01 we'll be easing into spring, but we're a few weeks ahead so.

2:05 Definitely some people being unwell, it really impacts them

2:08 and they just take it out and everyone around them and like,

2:11 it's just that, you know, that lingering cold or whatever.

2:13 But yeah, everyone just seems extra grumpy and extra, I don't

2:17 know, like just dropping the ball on things that they should

2:20 get done. Yeah, right.

2:21 In every aspect of life. I think, yeah.

2:23 I just can't. I just tell my people.

2:25 Yeah, it happens. It happens.

2:27 Hopefully with, you know, the tide of spring, we will, things

2:32 will shift and it'll all be all be good fun.

2:34 But. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:36 Who knows? But we're just talking about

2:38 show you like with the change of season.

2:40 Is it like, you know, the new basketball season starts for the

2:42 kids and we're saying about how like the constant like on like

2:47 for school with all the, you know, and there's just so much

2:49 on at the moment of like pay for this, pay for that, pay for

2:51 this, pay for that. I feel like it's forking money

2:54 out left right and centre at the moment.

2:55 Yeah, it's crazy. And I think like term 3 just

2:58 seems to be a mental term for all of that stuff.

3:00 It's like, yeah, they cram everything.

3:02 They do it. Term 4 is busy anyway.

3:04 It's a no, no report term. So everything is crammed.

3:07 It's crammed into term three, Term 3.

3:09 There's nothing on in term 3. Let's do a term 3.

3:11 Everyone, every teacher does it. OK.

3:13 Been there. Yeah, because.

3:14 That kids have got excursions, there's crepe days.

3:17 We just had mini Olympics. There's so much going on, School

3:19 camps coming up. Yeah.

3:21 And. Swimming, which we haven't had

3:22 notices of yet, but it will come.

3:24 I think that's term four though for our.

3:25 Kids. Oh, my kids are convinced it's

3:28 this term. Oh, OK.

3:29 Yeah, All right. Keep an eye up for that one.

3:31 I love it. Held out till term 4.

3:33 Just warmer weather. Yeah, if nothing else, getting

3:35 the towels dry. Yeah, that's.

3:36 True. Hey, that's it, that's it.

3:38 Love this quick swimming turnover for the for washing.

3:41 Oh. Jesus, it kills me that that

3:43 fortnight of swimming with school.

3:45 I know, right? I know, yeah.

3:47 Smell of chlorine. Delish.

3:50 Yeah, today we're talking about the Golden State Killer yes,

3:54 episode 12 and here we are this is a big case.

3:59 I don't think it's gonna be A2 parter at this stage because you

4:04 can absolutely deep dive into this case and we could probably

4:07 do A10 parter on it. Yeah, as many people have.

4:09 As many people have. And that's the thing like we've

4:12 there's if you're really interested in this case and you

4:14 wanna know more, there is so much information out there about

4:17 him and his crime and every victim and every crime and there

4:21 were so many crimes that we know of that have been attributed is

4:26 the. Only way to describe him in that

4:27 sense. Prolific.

4:28 Yeah. And I still don't think we know

4:32 the extent, the absolute extent of what, of the crimes that he

4:35 perpetrated because he is an absolute monster.

4:40 So the Golden State Killer, that's what he was finally come

4:44 to known at to be known as his. His name is Joseph James

4:49 DeAngelo and he was born on the 8th of November in 1945 and in

4:54 the mid 1970s in California in the United States he started

4:59 perpetrating these crimes. Mm hmm.

5:02 He went by so many pseudonyms. Yeah, so and because they didn't

5:07 each one the way he, they didn't actually marry up that he was

5:10 the same person. This is the thing, yeah, even

5:12 even now, they don't know that some of these, some of the names

5:17 given to these perpetrators, whether they are actually

5:20 attributable to him, but these are the ones that they're pretty

5:23 sure he is the perpetrator of the crime.

5:26 So he was known as the Visalia Ransacker, the East Area Rapist,

5:31 the East Side Rapist, the East Bay Rapist, the Creek Bed

5:35 Killer, the Diamond Not Killer, the Original Night Stalker and

5:40 the Golden State Killer. There's another name that he was

5:44 went by and it's Eerons, which is a combination of the East

5:49 Area Rapist and the original Night Stalker.

5:51 So at some point during the investigation, they put together

5:55 those two. Yeah.

5:56 So then that was known as Iran. So that's the East Area Rapist.

5:59 Also had Night Stalker. I also had the Orange County

6:03 killer as linked to him too. I didn't, but maybe I'm wrong.

6:06 Oh, no, not necessarily. I do.

6:08 Yeah. I've got in my notes here, I've

6:09 listed as the orange. Orange.

6:11 Yeah, the Orange County killer. Well.

6:12 I mean, I guess it's in the same area.

6:15 So this is mostly more than in California.

6:20 He perpetrated over the course of his crime career.

6:25 Now this is what they have been able to prove he was involved

6:30 with. There were 13 murders, 51 rapes,

6:34 120 burglaries minimum. Yeah.

6:38 He's, and the thing that is really interesting with this

6:42 case as well is he escalated as time went on.

6:46 So he started out with burglaries that progressed to

6:49 rapes, and then within that the murders sort of started.

6:53 Yeah, yeah. When he lost control in a

6:55 situation, obviously, I think. That's it exactly.

6:58 So he was married. He was married to a woman named

7:02 Sharon Marie Huddle. They were born.

7:04 They were married in 1973. And at the time he was a police

7:09 officer. That's how I mean that.

7:15 That's mind blowing to me it. Really is, I mean, and they did

7:18 in in profiling him, they they were where they believe that he

7:23 would have been in some sort of police or army or some sort of

7:28 in that sort of area for, for work.

7:31 And they were spot on. Yeah.

7:32 So well done to those profilers. But it flaws me that someone who

7:36 is in that kind of work does think would would think to want

7:40 to do this sort of stuff. Yeah, Yep, yeah.

7:43 They, I think the profiler said that he was more than likely

7:47 military. Yeah, because, well, he also

7:50 was, wasn't he? I believe he did he, but I don't

7:53 think he served. I don't know if it was like, did

7:56 he serve a term in the Navy? I'm fairly sure because that was

7:59 part of the Diamond Knot Killer title.

8:01 Right. OK, the the knots that he tied

8:04 during his, when he perpetrated these crimes, yeah, they were

8:09 they were Navy knots. And he was very good at one

8:12 particular knot that he used was this diamond knot.

8:14 Yeah. Which is almost impossible to

8:15 get out of. OK, so that's where he got that

8:18 name, right. So he must have done enough to,

8:22 I don't know, get a tie. Good knots.

8:23 I don't know how good. How much time you need to spend

8:25 in the Navy to become good at tying knots?

8:28 I don't know. Yeah.

8:30 I didn't see a lot about his military career in doing my

8:33 research. So I don't know whether it was

8:35 like AI don't know is is there what do we have here like the

8:40 reserves? Is there a reservist?

8:42 Yeah, I don't know equivalent in in America.

8:45 I don't know. Anyway, if you want to look into

8:48 that, feel free. Yeah, and he also worked as a as

8:51 a mechanic after his policing crew.

8:54 Well, sort of ended because he got.

8:56 Sacked. He took place the police from

8:58 stealing dog repellent. Yeah, I didn't even know that

9:02 existed. No either did I.

9:04 Never heard of that before this. The dog repellent exists and

9:07 apparently stops the dogs from barking.

9:10 Oh, maybe I need that for my dog.

9:11 I was. Going to say, but what it really

9:16 floored me because in this case, like a lot of people were

9:19 commenting throughout the these, these perpetrating, they were

9:23 commenting around the fact that my dog didn't bark like and

9:25 normally my dog would bark or protect and he they weren't.

9:29 But why steal it? Like he wasn't destitute?

9:33 No, although money did play like him.

9:36 I guess I'm getting really far ahead of my sorry that was my

9:40 fault. No, no not at all.

9:41 But I'm just wondering like why would you put your career at

9:44 risk as a police officer to steal something?

9:46 Like how much would dog repellent cost?

9:48 But I guess that was part of his MO.

9:50 In a year days. Too Of like that, that the

9:52 thrill of, I mean, started out with burglaries and burglary

9:55 like and robbery, robbing, very odd things, yeah.

9:59 So. But which I find really, really

10:01 funny that in some ways that he got caught doing it at work

10:05 where you would be like, surely you're going to be more careful

10:08 around doing it somewhere like that in that when he's going out

10:12 to the public and doing it, they couldn't catch him for so many

10:14 years. Yeah.

10:17 Yeah. So, yeah, it it it blows my

10:19 mind, Yeah. Being that he was a police

10:22 officer meant that he knew processes and he knew what would

10:27 happen when a crime was perpetrated and how it would,

10:30 how the police would go obviously go about investigating

10:33 it. And in many instances, he

10:35 actually investigated his own crimes.

10:36 Yeah, yeah. Which again, that was really

10:41 probably what he got off on, you know, that idea of being have

10:44 having control over that investigation in that way, like,

10:47 you know, having knowledge and yeah.

10:50 And his, I mean, colleagues have been interviewed, and he'd be

10:55 the first one to put his hand up to go in there and investigate

10:59 them easily. Then he could destroy any

11:02 evidence that he may have accidentally left behind or, I

11:06 guess, alter evidence to make it look a certain way.

11:08 And he did that. And he got away with these

11:11 crimes for years. So the crime spree really went

11:15 from around 1974 to 1986. He had three children in that

11:23 time too. So he and his wife had three

11:25 daughters. His wife is a divorce lawyer, a

11:28 divorce attorney they, but she never divorced him, not until

11:32 2019. Like they stayed together until

11:35 after he was arrested. They weren't together though.

11:37 No, they went together. No, they were separated, but

11:38 they never actually divorced. Yeah, until after his arrest and

11:41 everything. So.

11:42 I've heard that the reason that she didn't divorce him is

11:45 because of spousal privilege and that maybe she knew things that

11:50 she didn't then want to have to rat on him again.

11:53 Interesting because she's gone quiet she and so have her

11:56 daughters and in a lot of ways I respect that.

11:58 And so in that I, I understand that being connected to someone

12:02 like that is how on earth do you process that?

12:07 But yeah, maybe there's stuff that she knows.

12:10 I feel like, why else would you do it?

12:11 But then having said that, though, she divorced him in

12:16 2019. Yeah.

12:18 And he went to trial in 2020, I guess while they were married,

12:23 that's still considered spousal privilege during that time

12:26 period. Or it doesn't negate it just

12:28 because they got divorced after the time.

12:30 I don't know. I assume so because she she

12:32 never testified in no, well didn't have to testify because

12:35 he pledged well he. Pled guilty, I guess that I

12:37 guess the once he did that, she could sort of move on, yeah.

12:42 I guess. Yeah, I mean, I think luckily

12:43 lucky to everyone he didn't in some ways.

12:45 I mean as much as a trial would have been fascinating and we

12:47 would have found out far more about him and his and the

12:50 process he went and everything, I think we would have found out

12:52 a lot of stuff and that would have been fascinating.

12:56 But I think for the victims and etcetera, that was just a far

13:00 better way of going about things for him to just admit guilt and

13:03 be like, yes, I did this. Yeah, yeah, as much as yeah, we

13:06 don't get any info. Well.

13:10 No, no, no, no. When I was looking into this,

13:15 there was a really good podcast, long form podcast that I

13:18 listened to and it's called The Man in the Window.

13:20 It was a podcast made by, OR yeah, I guess produced by the LA

13:25 Times. So if you want more information

13:28 and sort of a little bit more in depth into every one of his

13:32 victims and maybe not every single one of his victims, but

13:34 many of these victims, that's a really good one to go and have a

13:36 look at. What?

13:37 What did you use to research? Yeah, a really good long form on

13:40 that. I'm I haven't actually haven't

13:42 finished yet, but I'm really, really enjoying.

13:43 I'm gonna finish it regardless of the fact that we've already

13:46 recorded this is it's by Criminology.

13:48 It was their season 2. The full season is devoted to

13:53 the, to the, the Golden State Killer.

13:56 It it, they do a really good job.

13:58 I mean, they've talked to a lot of the investigators.

14:00 They talk to some of the, the victims and victims family who

14:04 those who didn't survive. Because I'd, I'd rather use

14:06 probably the term for survivor than victim, to be honest.

14:09 Mm hmm. There's because some of the, the

14:10 survivors particularly are incredible what they've gone on

14:13 to do after this, to help others, et cetera, because the,

14:17 the trauma they've been put through was horrendous.

14:20 Yeah, yeah. So it was a real, it's a really

14:22 good long form podcast. Quite a few books I've listened

14:26 to as well. Another one was actually the

14:28 real crime Profiler. Yeah, real crime, sorry, Real

14:31 crime profile podcast was not had quite a few good episodes as

14:34 well. OK, yeah.

14:36 So that's and they've talked to victims as well.

14:38 Yeah. So there's a lot of information

14:40 out there if you want to go a lot deeper, but I guess let's

14:43 have a bit of a look at had his signature about his MO and and

14:49 see where it happens. So as the Visalia Ransacker, he

14:52 would actually come into people's homes.

14:54 So he'd he was very meticulous in the way he cased houses.

14:58 He knew where people were, when they were going to come and go,

15:02 who was in the house. And he always picked his timing

15:06 to be whatever he wanted that to be in that circumstance.

15:09 A lot of time picking his victim.

15:12 This is what makes me think his wife had to have known because

15:15 he would have liked the amount of time he would have had to

15:18 have devoted to each ransacking, to each burglary, to each rape,

15:22 to each murder. How did she like what he's going

15:26 out at all hours of the night? Because most of the crimes were

15:28 perpetrated at night. Yeah, well that was where being

15:32 a police officer worked in his favour.

15:34 I know that from listening to a podcast from on the perspective

15:37 from the brother-in-law. So her brother, the wife's

15:39 brother, and he said the fact that he worked as a police

15:43 officer quite often he would just say, oh, we had this case

15:46 towards the end of my shift and had to stay longer to write

15:49 reports. OK.

15:50 And a lot of the times when they in, in afterthought, he goes

15:53 back over some of those things and goes, oh, wow.

15:56 Like that's actually when that victim, like when that happened.

16:00 Oh yeah. And he said actually there was a

16:02 number of them. There's particular dates when

16:04 there's the brother-in-law, he went over the dates of because

16:06 he was so prolific, it was sort of pretty monthly that he would

16:09 pick a victim basically. And when he looked over it,

16:12 there were particular dates where he would perpetrate the

16:14 crime. And each year that those dates

16:17 popped up again and again and it was his birthday was one of

16:20 them, that there was a a perpetrating he perpetrated on

16:23 he on the brother in law's birthday over a couple of years,

16:25 like repeatingly on that same date.

16:28 And he's like, yeah, we're out as a family.

16:30 He didn't like socializing Joseph.

16:33 And so he wouldn't come to like a family gathering that was his

16:36 out of like, I don't want to go, you know, you go to your

16:38 family's birthday celebrations. He was perpetrating the crime.

16:42 They were all distracted by celebrating a birthday and, you

16:46 know, not watching the TV and seeing the news that night

16:49 because they were out at. Dinner gone doing his beauty

16:51 Now's now's my my opportunity. Yeah.

16:54 Oh God. I mean, how sickening you feel

16:56 like, you know, oh, we were doing that.

16:57 We were celebrating something and he's off doing that.

17:00 Oh, God, that you would just never get over that knowing

17:03 that. Yeah, I know there were

17:05 instances, especially with the burglaries, where I think the

17:10 the night that he had the most number of crimes, he broke into

17:14 20 houses in one night. Wow. 20 And that was all within

17:20 a city block. Oh no, he.

17:22 Wasn't breaking into like steel, you know, things of value.

17:25 Yeah, either. It was just the IT was the

17:27 thrill of breaking in being able to get in, have control of that

17:31 situation and it and then it was also that torture of aspect of

17:35 I'll steal one of your favorite. Earrings.

17:37 Yeah. Like, and he, he, he would do

17:40 weird shit like get all of the female underwear out of the

17:44 house and like, stuck it on the kitchen table.

17:46 Yeah. He'd make or change or change

17:49 drawers. Like he would he would go

17:51 through their drawers and take their underwear out of the

17:53 drawer and put it in someone else's drawer, but not take any

17:56 underwear. Yeah, so.

17:58 So the time people would really wouldn't realize for quite some

18:01 time after the fact, they'd kind of go where's this like some

18:03 random item and they'd realize he's taken it or he'd.

18:07 Move a photo or like just really creepy, creepy shit.

18:11 Creepy, creepy shit. Yeah.

18:13 Yeah. So I think when he perpetrated

18:16 that night that he did sort of the 20 burglaries in one hit,

18:19 yeah. Police were then like, oh, this

18:22 is escalating because that was sort of heading more towards the

18:25 end of the burglary sort of side of things.

18:27 And things were starting to really escalate.

18:29 So as you were saying, if he's looking to get a bit of a thrill

18:33 from this and it's taking 20 burglaries in one night to to

18:36 thrill him, Yeah, it kind of stands to reason that the next

18:41 thing he does is start escalating his behaviours.

18:45 And unfortunately, what that actually meant was that he

18:48 started raping women. The things that he did to these

18:53 women. Again, if you listen to any of

18:55 these long form podcasts, it goes into it.

18:57 Some of them go into it in a in a fair bit of depth, but.

19:01 Because the actual, well, two things here.

19:03 Firstly, rape isn't about sexual stuff.

19:07 It's about control 100%. But that's the thing with this

19:11 whole thing. The rape is actually, I mean, I

19:13 don't want to minimize rape. It's horrific.

19:17 But to be really honest, what he did to them psychologically was.

19:21 Horrible, he tortured. Them.

19:23 Yeah, he did. And not only on that night

19:26 before and after. So he would come into the house.

19:29 If there was a male present in the home, he would make the male

19:33 lie down on their front, stack dinner plates on their back and

19:37 say to the male, if you move or if I hear these plates move in

19:42 any way, I will come here and kill you.

19:46 And then I will kill your wife. I will rape and kill your wife.

19:49 Yeah. So these poor men were lying

19:54 there. They had you would have no

19:57 option. Like what do you do?

19:59 You've got dinner plates stucked on your back.

20:00 You would be. Here's them rattle.

20:01 I mean, God, that that would rattle at anything, any

20:04 breathing and especially breathing in an anxious state

20:07 like that. Yeah, Oh God, it's or thinking

20:11 you're now putting your wife if you know there were kids as

20:14 well, sometimes in the home, putting everyone at danger if

20:17 you move in any slight way. Yeah, yeah.

20:20 So he'd come in, he'd bind people, like all of the members

20:23 of the household. He'd blindfold them.

20:25 Yeah. So in a, in a lot of these

20:28 instances, once he'd sort of moved from the burglaries into

20:31 the rapes, people didn't really know what he looked like.

20:35 No, he wore a ski mask. And yeah.

20:37 That's right. And, and what I found

20:39 interesting was he actually had a different ski mask almost

20:43 every time he perpetrated a crime.

20:45 Wow. So there was no so nothing left

20:47 on it. That's it, Yeah.

20:48 Actually. So he must.

20:49 I don't know. What?

20:50 Where on earth was he buying? Well.

20:51 Where was he buying them? Where was he disposing of them?

20:54 Yeah. Did he keep them as trophies?

20:57 I I don't know. That's never come out.

21:00 Yeah. So he's got different gloves

21:02 every time, different ski mask and often and he would wear

21:06 different clothes. Well, actually, on that most

21:11 efficient burglar and rapist ever because he would rock up

21:14 with no pants on, Yeah. Ready to go?

21:16 Ready to go? Which, I mean, this is where

21:19 I've become with my anal self. Anyway to, you know, make things

21:23 easier? Nice.

21:25 Choice of words there, by the way.

21:27 Really bad. God, yeah.

21:32 But to rock up with no pants on to be able to, like one, perform

21:36 the ACT that he's going to perform like efficiently and get

21:38 it done and without the issue of pants up and down.

21:41 But if you know, he gets interrupted in some way to exit

21:44 without having to pull pants up and whatever he's he's smart in

21:48 that sort of truth. Yeah, he never intended to leave

21:52 quickly though, and that's why the pants thing.

21:54 I guess it's just in case he was sprung, even though he generally

21:58 would have done enough research to know he wasn't going to get

22:00 sprung, so he would perpetrate these horrific rapes, including

22:06 sodomy, including like oral rape.

22:09 He made the victims do awful. Things horrible.

22:12 He'd bind their hands behind their back and make them like

22:16 touch his penis because he liked to see their hands bound and

22:20 touching him. Touching his.

22:22 Teeny tiny teeny tiny little penis.

22:24 Literally, Literally, apparently.

22:27 Hold on. I actually wrote down a quote

22:28 about his penis. I love that.

22:31 So you say that one more. Time I wrote a quote about his

22:34 penis if that ends up on on TikTok oh God.

22:39 So one of the investigators wrote in one of her reports that

22:43 he had an extremely small penis and they even went to doctors

22:48 around when they were investigating trying to figure

22:51 out who this bloke is. They went to doctors around the

22:53 areas where he was raping people to go, anybody here have like a

22:56 bit of a micro penis that you know that you know of because

22:59 they're like, this is an identifying feature potentially.

23:02 Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:03 Can you imagine getting that question?

23:05 Like got a patient with a small Dick.

23:08 Yeah. I don't know what the percentage

23:10 of that is in the population, but yeah, I don't think it turns

23:13 out any leads in the end. Yeah.

23:15 But apparently, like, because he's he's one of his victims,

23:18 which is horrific. She was only 13 years of age and

23:22 she was a virgin. Yeah.

23:24 And so him raping her and multiple times he raped her, but

23:28 it never broke her hymen. Inch I did.

23:31 Not that's how small a penis he had.

23:33 There you go. Yeah, that poor girl.

23:35 She was. Her name was Margaret Wardlow,

23:38 13 years of age. And I've heard an interview with

23:42 her where she actually said, so she's obviously a grown adult

23:45 now. And she said I knew I just had

23:48 to give him zero satisfaction. I knew he would want me to be

23:53 begging for my life and saying to asking him to stop.

23:57 And she said I gave him none of it.

23:58 I just said to him, do what you need to do.

24:00 Yeah. Gave him at 13 years of age to

24:03 have the presence of mind to be like that.

24:07 She she. And she actually said to him,

24:10 I'm not afraid of you. Oh.

24:12 God go her. Yeah.

24:13 And her mum was at home when that happened.

24:15 Oh, unbelievable. Yeah, unbelievable.

24:20 Yeah. She just accepted that he was

24:21 going to rape her and. And it happened and he left.

24:26 He would sometimes do some really strange things after

24:29 after perpetrating the crime on the victims or on the survivors,

24:33 he would go into their kitchen and make himself a meal.

24:36 Yeah, and he'd sit down, cook, sit down on a balcony and Yep,

24:40 take in the view or whatever. And then he'd go back and rape

24:43 them again. Yep.

24:44 And then he'd go and wander around the house and do

24:46 something else. Move their underwear around or

24:47 whatever it was he was doing. Very.

24:49 Weird. So I mean it wasn't just a, you

24:52 know, rape and gone like and it was in and out quickly like

24:55 that. Yeah, it was very like it was a

24:58 lot of time of this, this poor victim lady, they're going, is

25:01 he going to come back again? And this is part he left.

25:03 Is he here this? Is part of the torture, Yeah.

25:05 Isn't it, that they didn't know whether he was still around?

25:08 No. He would then also phone them

25:11 for weeks and for some, for some of the months.

25:14 And one of his victims? The first one, yeah, it was

25:18 years. He would ring them.

25:20 Oh my God, you need to go on to YouTube and listen to this.

25:23 But he would ring and he'd just breathe into the receiver.

25:26 He'd be like, like horrific. And then he'd say things like,

25:31 I'm gonna fucking kill you. Yeah.

25:33 Like weird shit. When you're listening to that

25:36 recording like that, it gave me absolute chills.

25:39 Like I real, real crime stuff doesn't affect me like that.

25:44 I don't get scared of it. Like I don't know what it is,

25:46 but horror movies really freak me out.

25:49 I can't do horror movies. Oh me either this do about you?

25:53 History is horror movies. Like he is literally literally

25:56 his crimes could have been scripts in horror movies.

25:59 His very first victim he appeared in her doorway with a

26:05 knot with his knife tapping on the she worked to the tapping of

26:09 his knife on the the the door frame of the door.

26:12 I mean, that's full blown monster in a horror movie Shit

26:17 to the point where when she, you know, in her days, confused of

26:21 waking up, actually thought she was seeing things and threw her

26:24 bed cover back over her head going Oh my God, go to sleep,

26:26 you idiot like kind of thing, like, you know, like what on

26:28 earth that it was that that weird that and then he jumped on

26:32 her kind of thing. So I mean, he's just beyond and

26:36 I had I said it to you during the week researching this, it's

26:39 the first time I've ever done the whole gone and checked my

26:41 locks, triple checked my locks at night, going to bed after

26:45 listening to podcasts or reading things around this case because

26:49 he was a. Genuine monster monster, A

26:53 creep, a terrorist. Like he's just horrible.

26:55 One of the ones that creeps me out the most in terms of his

26:58 researching his victims and then perpetrating crime.

27:01 I don't know if you've heard this or not, but they the, the,

27:05 the rapes got so bad. They started like these these

27:08 town meetings and they had a town meeting and one of the guys

27:12 in the town meeting stood up and said, how on earth is this guy

27:17 raping his woman's, a man's wife in the house while he's home?

27:21 There's no way that would happen in my home.

27:22 I'd, you know, beat the guy out of there, meet off, you know,

27:26 I'd beat him up, I'd kill him. You know how on earth a man in

27:28 the Uptown allowing this to happen.

27:32 And so that was that he they left the town meeting.

27:35 I think within a few months of that town meeting, Joseph rocked

27:41 up at his house. This guy that spoke at the town

27:44 meeting raped his wife and left. So he did it straight to that

27:50 man to show him you think you could you that other men can

27:53 protect their wives and you can do better than they've done.

27:56 Not when I'm around. Like how freaking creepy he was

27:59 at that town meeting. He was and he was at.

28:02 That photo, I think someone's found a photo of him sitting at

28:05 the town meeting. And so he's heard this guy

28:08 speak. He's spent some time researching

28:10 him and finding the perfect time and going, Oh well, there you

28:13 go, you're my next victim. Fuck you, buddy.

28:15 How? Freaking creepy.

28:17 He's so creepy. One of the other victims that I

28:22 sort of looked into. She was his fifth victim.

28:26 And there there are quite a lot of interviews with her, sort of

28:30 like clips of her on YouTube. Her name is Jane Carson Sandler

28:36 and her experience. So this one happened at 6:00 in

28:39 the morning, but apparently it was very dark like it was.

28:41 It's not like a summer, 6:00 in the morning.

28:43 It's depths of winter, 6:00 in the morning.

28:47 It was 1976. And she said she saw a bright

28:51 light down the end of the hallway, but her husband was

28:53 about to leave for work, so she was like, oh, that's weird.

28:55 Like normally he wouldn't have a flashlight type thing, but

29:00 whatever, Didn't really think that much of it.

29:02 And then a man comes from that end of the hallway wearing a ski

29:06 mask, coming at her. He's holding this hunting knife.

29:10 And at that time of the morning, her three-year old son had

29:13 gotten into bed with her just to have some snuggles.

29:15 I guess maybe the dad had woken him up in the process of going

29:19 to work and he so Joseph bound both of them, blindfolded them.

29:27 And she said in her mind she was like, just do whatever he wants

29:30 because my son's here, I just need to keep the peace.

29:36 He, she said when when he bound her ankles, she kind of felt

29:42 about it. She thought maybe he's just

29:43 going to steal stuff out of the house or like, maybe he will

29:47 kill us. I don't know.

29:48 Yeah. Then he unbound her ankles and

29:51 he's like, she said, I just knew exactly what was coming.

29:55 And she said she'd just lay there like silently let what

30:00 happened happened because her son was lying like.

30:03 Well, she doesn't know where he was, whether he'd removed him

30:05 out of the. Room.

30:06 I don't think he had so. But she didn't know like, was my

30:10 son OK? Like was he still alive?

30:11 Didn't know he. This was one of the households

30:14 where he stayed and cooked himself a meal.

30:16 Yeah. And she just had to lie there

30:18 for over an hour. He never came back to her, I

30:21 don't think, but. I think yeah, it would.

30:23 Have been hours until she was able to.

30:27 I don't know, it feels safe. I don't know, it feels safe

30:29 enough to be able to move and do something about.

30:31 Whatever saying she literally just counted to 60 like over and

30:35 over in her head trying to count like so how long have I waited

30:37 for to make sure he's gone and listening out to make sure to

30:39 see And then she'd like hear him in the kitchen.

30:41 Then she'd start again and like, Oh my God, because she's like if

30:45 I wait 10 minutes and of silence and I think he's gone.

30:48 But he used to, he would be able to walk and get through places

30:51 like so stealth like that. You would think he's not there

30:54 and he would be. Yeah.

30:55 Oh, that's see that goes towards that terror like the people

31:00 would be feeling. Oh my God.

31:02 Yeah. As the rapes sort of were

31:04 progressing, one of the detectives who was an

31:08 investigator at the time, it was she was a woman named Carol

31:12 Daly. So she investigated 27 of his,

31:16 of his crimes. She said we knew that he was

31:22 ready to kill. Like, they could see the

31:24 escalation of the rapes as well. They were becoming more violent,

31:26 more graphic, more like intense. And they just knew the next step

31:33 was murder. And lo and behold, I think, you

31:37 know, not that long after they'd sort of come to this conclusion.

31:40 A couple of weeks later, he, he committed his first murder.

31:46 Was his first murder one where there was a wife and there was a

31:50 couple? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:51 Yeah, so another, I guess we need to probably say as well, he

31:59 evaded capture for over 40 years.

32:01 So he's perpetrating like these 13 murders.

32:04 He's these rapes, countless burglaries.

32:07 And so over the years, many detectives you know had held the

32:11 case and it was passed on and passed back and.

32:14 So all in different areas too, they'd be investigating as

32:16 that's why I ended up with so many names.

32:18 That's it. Because different areas were

32:19 investigating and back then they weren't so much communicating, I

32:22 guess in a central database of sorts.

32:24 That's of kind of going, oh, this is the same case as the

32:26 same person and perpetrating these crimes in multiple places.

32:29 It was basically like this area who was known as this because

32:31 that he was operating there, but over in a few towns over, you

32:35 know, he was known as something else and perpetrating the crimes

32:38 there and that the detectives there weren't necessarily

32:41 communicating to know. Oh, hang on a second.

32:43 You've got the same guy we have. It wasn't until one of them, I

32:45 believe, put a few. Together this detective Paul

32:48 holds is that right he sort of came to to have to be able to

32:54 see a few commonalities between all of these different cases and

33:01 be like oh this is interesting. So a few things that he

33:03 identified, it was always single story houses.

33:06 Yes, he parked his car in a strategic place in order to be

33:11 able to get out quickly if he needed to, but never close

33:14 enough to the house that his vehicle would be identified or

33:16 associated. We used to ride a bike too.

33:19 Yeah, at times or sometimes he also went on foot.

33:22 Yeah, Yeah, yes. I mean, I guess he had a lot of

33:27 a lot of different ways of escaping depending on where

33:30 whereabouts he was perpetrating. Yeah, I think Paul Holds took

33:38 over the case in 1994. So by this stage the crimes had

33:43 sort of stopped. Well, in that stage too, I guess

33:47 DNA became possible, whereas back when he was perpetrating

33:51 his crimes in the 70s and 80s, DNA wasn't even a thing.

33:54 There was something that I didn't get a lot of information

33:56 on. And you probably can answer this

33:57 more more correctly than what I was listening to kind of going,

34:01 OK, I think I get what they're saying, but something about that

34:04 he prior to even DNA coming into play, they could test certain

34:08 things. Yep.

34:09 And that it turned out that this, whoever he was, Yep, he

34:12 fell into this very small bracket of the of the population

34:15 who were a non secretive non. Secretive, Yeah.

34:18 What does that mean? So a non secretive, so body

34:21 fluids. So a non secretor is a person.

34:24 So it make 15 to 25% of the population are non secretive.

34:28 So it's not a tiny percentage by any chance, but it is in the

34:32 minority. So it certainly narrows a pool

34:34 of people, but it's basically where your body fluids don't

34:37 secrete antigens that are characteristic of your blood

34:41 group, right. So most people or I guess

34:44 between what is it 85 and 7075 and 85% of the population, when

34:49 you secrete body fluids, there are antigens in those fluids.

34:52 So this can be saliva, sweat, whatever else.

34:57 But as I said, 15 to 25% of the population don't actually

35:02 secrete these antigens in their body fluids.

35:04 So you can't pinpoint what blood group he was.

35:07 No, if if they found blood they would be able.

35:09 To yeah, but no. But from any other, from his

35:11 semen, yeah, that would be left in the at the scene, yeah, they

35:15 wouldn't be able to get any of that information.

35:17 The, The interesting thing about this case is that by the time

35:22 they found him and they got to him and they were able to look

35:28 into DNA because obviously we'd come, you know, many, many,

35:31 many, many years down the track. Yeah, a lot of the evidence from

35:34 all of his rape. So the semen that was found and

35:38 kept was all destroyed because the statute of limitations in

35:42 the in California meant that they could take years.

35:44 I thought it was seven. It's like not long at all,

35:47 whether whether it's seven or ten especially.

35:50 We know about rape victims and how long it takes for them to be

35:52 able to feel comfortable, to come forward.

35:54 Yeah, that's. Bullshit.

35:56 Yeah, it is absolute bullshit. I don't know whether that's

35:58 still the case now, whether the statute of limitations has

36:00 changed. I didn't look into that.

36:02 I don't feel, I feel like he wasn't able to be, Yeah, he was

36:05 definitely not able to be like charged with the rapes, I feel.

36:09 In No, he he wasn't no, he, no, he wasn't convicted of any of

36:13 the rapes because. Because of that statute of

36:15 limitations. But he was convicted of 11

36:19 murders. Yes, but we can get into that in

36:21 a minute. Yeah.

36:22 Yeah. So some more evidence that this

36:26 detective sort of started putting together was that his

36:28 shoe size was size 9. So that's a pretty small male

36:33 foot really, is it? No, I think it's like, oh, I

36:36 think your female feet are like it's like a seven or eight.

36:38 It's probably average, isn't it? Is it a men's shoe?

36:41 Sizes to me like A10 seems big. OK, no, I don't look, I don't

36:46 know. I'm just going by maybe yours

36:50 that. I know your boys have got

36:51 massive feet, yeah. Maybe, yeah, I don't know, it

36:54 just to me that seems small, but.

36:56 So I would have said. What did they say that?

36:57 Oh, that seems like what I was going to say.

36:59 You know what they say? Small shoes, small feet.

37:06 Yeah. Obviously the fact that he was a

37:08 non secretor. He also would have these catch

37:10 phrases that he would whisper or whimper to his victims as he was

37:15 raping them or between rapes. He would say.

37:17 He would speak disgusting. He would say things like I just

37:23 need food and money for my van. Oh Yep, he said that in nearly

37:29 every rape he perpetrated. Did he?

37:33 Even own a van. Well, this is the thing.

37:35 The detectives think it was a red herring and he was actually

37:38 throwing. So he there were a few other

37:39 bits and pieces that he would say to really try and throw his

37:44 victims off. And they were red herrings in

37:46 the end, Yeah. Right.

37:48 He'd stutter. Yes, I did hear that one, yeah.

37:51 Even though he didn't in every day, no he he didn't have a

37:56 stutter, he would cry. Like actually cry tears.

38:04 What? And he'd mention his mother and

38:08 he'd say, mum, I'm really sorry, I won't do this again.

38:10 Oh, my mother. Although some of them said they

38:15 thought he said mummy when he actually might have said Bonnie

38:19 and Bonnie was an ex-girlfriend. Yeah, now Bonnie's an

38:22 interesting one. Yeah.

38:23 So Bonnie was engaged to him. So this was pre him marrying.

38:29 Oh my God, I've just forgotten his wife's name.

38:32 How to lose her surname Sharon? Hold on.

38:35 Oh, God, Sharon. Thank you.

38:40 So prior to marrying Sharon, he was engaged to this Bonnie and

38:45 he was awful to her, so much so she called off the engagement.

38:50 He then went to her house, essentially kidnapped her, put a

38:54 gun to her head and said we're going to Nevada, to Vegas to get

38:58 married. And he wasn't arrested.

39:00 For no, I don't think she ever her her version of events now

39:06 and she's a in her 70s I think now late 70s.

39:11 Her thing now is I just needed to be away from him like she,

39:15 she said. I knew he was bad, but she

39:17 didn't know he was this bad. It's not like she could have

39:20 foreshadowed what he was going. To do and there were some really

39:23 shit news articles that came out when this all sort of blew up

39:27 and they knew who he was. And when they found out and the

39:29 the headlines sort of blamed Bonnie almost of like sort of

39:32 saying, you know, like it was the trigger for him to start

39:35 raping and which it's not Bonnie's fault.

39:39 Oh God no. And so those headlines were

39:42 horrendous that that you know that you know her her actions of

39:46 calling off the engagement meant that other women were died

39:49 victims of this so raped. Let's just put that out there.

39:54 Bonnie escaped a domestic violence situation.

39:57 And good on and well done to Bonnie.

39:59 And yes, OK, in hindsight, if she'd gone to the police, you

40:02 know, things, he may have been, he may, but it wouldn't have

40:05 stopped what he was gonna. Become so people would have done

40:07 on her. There would have probably been a

40:08 slap on the wrist for his first offence and nothing would have

40:11 come of. It exactly.

40:11 He still would have perpetrated this crime.

40:13 He lost his job as a police officer at one stage anyway.

40:16 It's not like that stopped him. Yeah.

40:18 So that's it. You know, he might have just

40:20 lost his job as a police officer earlier, but that's all it

40:23 probably would have done. I I dare say.

40:25 Because he, because Joseph pled guilty to all of the charges

40:29 that were brought against him. Eventually there was no trial,

40:33 but the victims were allowed to provide a victim impact

40:37 statement. Mm hmm.

40:38 And Bonnie wanted to be able to state her case in that, but

40:43 because she wasn't technically a victim of his, she wasn't

40:46 allowed to. But she teamed up with an actual

40:49 victim who read a statement on her behalf in court.

40:53 So this, this victim, I think the victim was actually the, oh,

40:58 don't quote me on this. I think she might have been the

41:00 mother of somebody who died at Joseph's hand.

41:05 So she provided her own victim impact statement.

41:08 And then the judge had said to the victims, you can, you can

41:13 say whatever you want. There is no limit on the amount

41:15 of time or content of what you say.

41:18 And she then read out a statement that Bonnie had had

41:23 written. I love it too, like girl power.

41:25 And, and Bonnie stood there next to her while she was giving her

41:28 victim impact statement and watched the video.

41:32 She stares him down. She does not break her.

41:37 Her contact, eye contact with him and the look on her face.

41:41 I'm like, Yep, you go, girl. Survivors.

41:43 Survivors, not victims. Yeah.

41:46 That's awesome. I'm going to go search that and

41:48 look at that. That just that is awesome.

41:50 Yeah. Because this is the thing when

41:52 you don't let him get it. Yeah.

41:53 No, this is He's the monster. Yeah, when he was arrested,

41:57 though. This is just.

41:59 Oh my God. God, again.

42:01 How many palliative years? Apparently the day before he was

42:04 arrested because the police were surveilling him for lots and

42:07 lots and lots of, you know, days and weeks and months and years

42:12 really leading up to his eventual arrest.

42:15 And the day before he was arrested.

42:17 He's like hooning on a motorcycle down like the

42:21 freeway, apparently speeding. And he was also, oh, there was

42:25 something else he was doing that was quite sprightly and

42:27 whatever, right? And then the day he's arrested,

42:29 he's like, like, all hunched over.

42:33 Yeah, yeah, just trying to gain sympathy.

42:36 Yeah, although of something that the brother-in-law did comment

42:38 on and said he definitely had lost a lot of weight.

42:40 But again, did he lose weight in in jail by like refusing food to

42:43 make sure he looked that way? Or was being in jail impacting

42:48 him and therefore losing weight? Well, I hope so.

42:51 Either way, who cares? Yeah, but it's yeah, he, he

42:54 definitely, you know, changed a lot between the arrest to then

42:58 sitting in in the courtroom. Absolutely.

43:02 Yeah, he's a what? An absolute piece of shit.

43:05 Oh. Absolute piece of shit, yeah.

43:09 I I mean. They don't get more awful, I

43:11 don't reckon. Pardon, I don't know that they

43:12 get much more awful. No, they they don't.

43:14 And that normal prolific like it's just insane.

43:18 Yeah. So he was arrested on the 25th

43:21 of April in 2018. Should we talk about how that

43:24 came about? Yes, this is what I'm fascinated

43:26 by this, this really. And it really blows open so many

43:29 other possibilities for other cold cases.

43:30 Totally, Yeah. I mean, this had been

43:32 essentially a cold case for all of those years funding.

43:35 He actually stopped committing. Crimes 1970198680.

43:40 Six. Yeah, but do we know why he

43:42 stopped? They don't know, although.

43:47 So his final victim was a woman named Janelle Lisa Cruz.

43:52 I say woman. She was 18 years old.

43:54 She was a girl. He raped her, and then he

43:57 bludgeoned her to death with a pipe wrench.

44:00 So it was the most, like, absolutely brutal and gruesome

44:03 attack. Yeah.

44:05 And there is an inference that maybe he almost got caught doing

44:10 that and that was enough to get him to stop because there had

44:14 been an instance, I can't remember which, which case it

44:17 was or which victim it was, where he'd almost got in court

44:21 and he then had a break. Well, that was, that was 1977,

44:25 Yeah. And he fell and he, he, they,

44:27 they absolutely said because though he's being chased down

44:30 and I don't know why, but this is God.

44:33 So I get this visual of point break when he climbs the fence

44:38 and jumps, you know, and they're like second he hits his knee,

44:40 right. I get that visual of the of him

44:44 running off and he jumped something and they said he had

44:46 to have injured himself when he jumped and fell this in this,

44:50 but he did get away. But and because there was an

44:54 interview. He wasn't he caught unaware as

44:56 in some somebody came home or or interrupted what he was doing.

45:00 He wasn't able to fully complete his ritual.

45:02 I think so, yeah. And that they think that's why

45:05 he ended up having that break. Oh.

45:06 No, they reckon. Well, they say the break was

45:08 either due to the fact of the injury right itself, but also

45:11 quite possibly have like all fucked up here, like how am I

45:14 going to avoid that next time, that kind of thing.

45:16 But it was also because he ended up they ended up going to

45:18 hospitals kind of finally trying to chase down because he would

45:21 have would have had to have gone to hospital to get this checked

45:24 out. And there was a particular

45:26 person who they did sort of think it was and they pinned him

45:29 down to kind of go, is this, you know, was it you like because he

45:32 rocked up to hospital with an injury and but it wasn't him in

45:35 the end, but they he definitely could have had would have had to

45:38 have gone to hospital for this injury.

45:39 But he probably went like drove hours and went somewhere else

45:43 like he was that knowledgeable about how they he would have

45:46 known they would have come looking for him at a house

45:48 that's. Right, exactly.

45:49 He wasn't silly. So maybe because it was such a

45:51 close call, that's what caused it as yeah, who knows.

45:55 And because there's other ones where like the brother-in-law

45:57 that was interviewed, he said, like when he looked at the dates

45:59 and the layout, he was like, oh, he had a, there was a gap here

46:02 where he didn't do any, any like for a month or two.

46:04 And he's like, that's when we were moving.

46:06 He was helping us move. Or once when one of his

46:08 daughters was born, there was a gap of a few months.

46:10 Yeah, you think? Yeah.

46:11 OK, so he was busy at nights and things or helping other people

46:14 out and so he couldn't do his normal stalk and find his

46:17 victim. Yeah.

46:19 Interesting to see that perspective of someone like a

46:21 family member to kind of go like the dates of like you know, when

46:24 he didn't an attack. With that brother-in-law as

46:26 well, he would show him these like handmade gold bullion bars

46:30 that he'd made, like he'd meltdown, you know, what he'd

46:34 stolen from houses. And that mean he, it's not like

46:37 he stole great amounts of jewellery and stuff, but I guess

46:40 across 120 burglaries you're gonna, you know, accumulating.

46:44 There and everything there and yeah, piece of necklace there

46:46 and he smelt. It smelted it all down into

46:49 these like handmade gold bullion and would show his

46:51 brother-in-law and be like, hey, but the brother-in-law never

46:54 asked where you got it, where he got it from or never asked

46:56 questions. Is it because he didn't?

46:58 Wanna know the answer? Oh yeah, me.

47:01 There is a book he has written a book, the brother-in-law, which

47:04 apparently you can't just get off of, off of Amazon called

47:08 Killers Have Secrets. OK, so and he writes about the

47:11 fact that he was in a lot of ways a normal bloke.

47:15 Yeah, well, he was in day-to-day life.

47:17 He said you would never have picked that this was what he was

47:20 doing, like he said there. Was how he got away with it,

47:21 yeah. He said definitely like when

47:23 he's white, when the him he's the wife and him split, then

47:26 they separated that his sister just didn't want anything to do

47:30 with him anymore, which I mean, that's, you know, most people

47:33 who separate from someone that's not, you know, an indicator of

47:36 oh, he must be killing and raping people.

47:37 Yeah, absolutely. But there she was definitely

47:39 like, Nah, Nah, I don't want anything to do with him.

47:40 But he he maintained a friendship with him as his

47:43 brother-in-law. But he said eventually though,

47:45 he got that he Joseph found these other mates who had who

47:48 enjoyed fishing, which the brother-in-law didn't like

47:51 fishing. So they sort of the friendship

47:54 kind of just paid it out. OK.

47:56 But like, that's just a normal kind of relationship of, of a

48:01 friend of a relationship like that when you're when you're

48:03 not, you're not. Well, they're married

48:04 technically, but they went together, yeah, though, you

48:06 know, with his, with his sister. So there's.

48:07 No obligation there. They just kind of yeah, he the I

48:11 did say that the brother-in-law would also said that he would

48:17 discuss these cases with him openly and bring up the East

48:20 Area Rapist and bring up the Original Night Stalker and talk

48:25 to him about. It how weird, Yeah.

48:29 Creep. Yeah, what a creep.

48:32 But the brother-in-law never suspected anything.

48:34 Not from all accounts, from what he says, no.

48:36 And he said because he did say in interviews outright that if

48:40 he ever suspected that he was, he would have immediately gone

48:43 to the police. He would never have approached

48:45 him, but he would absolutely have gone to the police.

48:47 So the way he was presented himself, I believe him.

48:52 He seemed to be very credible. Yeah.

48:55 I don't know. And whether his wife, you know,

48:57 ex-wife knew anything, I don't know.

49:00 I feel like she had to have known, maybe not knowing that he

49:03 was, you know, Eurons or that he was the Golden State Killer.

49:08 But I think she had to have known something was.

49:13 It wasn't a happy marriage like you know, like it was obviously.

49:16 It's obviously doing things that she was like, where are where

49:18 are you at night? What are you having affairs?

49:20 Maybe she was thinking that, I don't know.

49:21 Yeah. Oh, where's all this shit coming

49:23 from? Why have you got Yeah, random.

49:25 I mean, I'm assuming he hid everything that he brought back,

49:27 but. The the one thing that the

49:28 brother-in-law said in an interview was that that really

49:30 like kind of made me go, oh, that's really eerie.

49:33 He reckoned now looking back on everything that obviously this

49:37 man is a psychopath of he'll he'll be I'm sure they'll have

49:42 psychologist looking at him of like, what?

49:43 What is he? Where where does this come from?

49:46 Yeah, but also he said he has to have learnt how to behave

49:50 normal. And so his his behaviour of

49:52 being normal was learnt behaviour.

49:54 Oh. OK, I kind of go, yeah, like

49:57 that. So he's like innately he's a

49:59 monster, a monster. And he's had to learn how to

50:03 behave like a normal person. That's that's really

50:06 interesting. I guess it would have to be

50:07 because only a psychopath could perpetrate these kinds of.

50:10 Crimes. Did you read much about him as a

50:12 child? No, I didn't.

50:14 So the only little bit of information I was able to find

50:16 out was that he was abandoned by his own father as a child and

50:20 his father went and started a new family and named his new

50:25 kids the same name has his old kids.

50:29 No? And that's got to fuck with you.

50:30 That is so fucked. Up where you become a rapist and

50:33 a murderer, but. That is so fucked up.

50:35 Well, I've actually got a family story about this about something

50:38 similar, and it really messed with the person.

50:41 And had the same thing. I mean, not, not well, listen.

50:45 OK. So yeah, yeah, my dad's side of

50:49 the family. So my dad's grandparents had a

50:55 daughter, and they named her Elsa.

50:58 Yeah. And she died, I think of caught

51:00 death before she was one or at around the age of one.

51:03 Yeah. They then went on to have

51:05 another daughter. Yeah, about a year later, and

51:08 they named her Elsa. Oh, no.

51:10 Yep. And the second Elsa definitely

51:16 had. I have no doubt in my mind that

51:21 impacted her. So she knew that too.

51:24 Like she grew up knowing that she was Elsa Number.

51:26 Two. Yep, like you're a replacement

51:29 for someone. So like, think about Joseph.

51:33 Yeah. He's then being replaced by

51:37 what? His dad's just trying and trying

51:39 again. Yeah, you know it.

51:40 Didn't work with that family I'll start again.

51:41 Let's. Start again.

51:43 See how that goes. I mean, that'd fuck with you.

51:45 I didn't. Think people did that?

51:47 Oh, I know. It's so weird.

51:48 Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, it's really full on.

51:52 Really, really full on. Yeah, but let's get back to how

51:57 we got caught, yeah? How we got caught.

51:59 So the detective decided in his absolute wisdom, and I think

52:06 he'd, he'd read about other detectives trying to solve cases

52:12 in the same way, but he used DNA that they were able to obtain

52:15 from Joseph and uploaded it into a genealogy website.

52:20 So I think it's called Jed Match.

52:22 It's not one that's very well known, but think along the lines

52:25 of ancestry.com or 23andMe where you upload adna profile into,

52:32 into the website and it gives you a bit of an idea of like who

52:35 you're related to or where you've come from.

52:38 And So what they what this detective did was upload, I

52:42 guess, a fake profile with Joseph's DNA.

52:47 Yeah, not linked to knowing that's the name.

52:49 Oh. Not linked to knowing that's

52:50 name, they just all they knew was this was.

52:52 This was the JS KS DNA. But not knowing who this person

52:58 was at all. Yeah.

52:59 So within. Well, this is, according to the

53:02 detective, within a day they had something like 1000 matches, and

53:10 they were able to narrow that down South into 25 family trees.

53:15 OK, so there's a lot of data here, right?

53:19 They were able to narrow it down via Joseph's great, great, great

53:26 grandparents. So that's how far they had to go

53:28 back. Wow.

53:30 They then went down those. Went down those red.

53:33 Cars. And they found five males who

53:36 were living in California with the right age and the right,

53:42 yeah, right age and men and in the right geographical area,

53:46 right living in the right geographical area.

53:49 And one of those five males was Joseph DeAngelo.

53:51 Wow. So they.

53:54 But Joseph DeAngelo never actually uploaded his DNA to one

53:59 of these ancestry.com things like or, you know, he never did

54:03 that. He was, it was fire.

54:05 Some other family relative, yeah, who had uploaded their DNA

54:09 that connected it to them. So it was a third cousin, I

54:12 think, right? Yeah.

54:14 Like Jeezy must hate that third cousin, Yeah.

54:16 Or maybe it was a second. It was, it was not a first

54:19 cousin. Yeah, either a second or a third

54:20 cousin. But yeah, imagine be like, oh,

54:22 hi, sorry, there was me. Sorry.

54:24 Hi, it was me. I uploaded my DNA 'cause.

54:27 I'm where I came from, like. May I tell you an ancestry?

54:32 Have you ever done one of those 23andMe or?

54:34 I haven't, but my father has because he was adopted.

54:37 Yeah. And so.

54:38 He wanted to find out his well, he's like in his mind, he wants

54:41 to find out where his who his mum was and things and who his

54:43 dad was. Yeah, she really just didn't

54:44 come back with much. No, it was nothing overly.

54:47 I guess in that generation maybe it's less common.

54:50 Yeah, I don't know, because my mum's done it as well.

54:52 And what really, I think what really pissed him off was that

54:54 it came out with more with her and she's been in touch with

54:56 relatives of hers, but he's, it just really didn't lead

55:00 anywhere. So we're kind of like, again, we

55:02 just started, he started the whole family on his own.

55:04 We don't know where he came. From He's the founding father,

55:06 Founding father. Yeah, the poor bloke, he's.

55:11 Yeah. But you know, so I have it.

55:12 But it's so interesting finding out like your heritage and, you

55:16 know, because we always thought there was not knowing from my

55:18 dad being, you know, being adopted, we don't know what his

55:21 heritage is. And I was kind of like, is there

55:23 at one stage we thought there was a lot of Italian there.

55:25 I've been told in the past that I might have a bit of Italian in

55:27 my blood, you know, or other people have commented about

55:29 varying other traits that we have that might be a bit of

55:32 something else. Yeah.

55:34 And it's turns out, no, just, you know, England, Ireland, the

55:38 typical stuff. So yeah, that was pretty

55:41 interesting. Yeah.

55:43 The same as my mom. And, you know, like, yeah, yeah.

55:46 Yeah, same, same. Yeah, We.

55:48 I've never done it and I'm really skeptical to be honest

55:52 with you. Yeah, not because I'm skeptical

55:55 about the process as in, you know, the way it happens.

55:58 And I would be happy to find family members potentially, but

56:01 yeah, what else are they doing with my genetic information?

56:03 And I know they're not looking at like in these, they're

56:06 looking at genealogy. They're not looking at your

56:09 like, genetic makeup, right. But I'm like, oh, it just, I

56:13 don't know. Yeah, what's I was going to ask

56:15 you that. So in this.

56:16 Situation a crime and then I'm in a database.

56:18 What's the, the ethical stuff of this, of the way they've gone

56:21 about this? Yeah.

56:23 Well, how? What are your thoughts on that,

56:24 on the ethics of it? Well, but I mean they obviously

56:27 sell your data, but it's de identified.

56:30 But who's to say that like an Ashley Madison breach doesn't

56:33 happen? And.

56:36 That's a whole another episode. I think that's actually on the

56:39 list. That was one of my.

56:40 Yeah, because I find them really fascinating.

56:43 Blows my mind that. Yeah, Yeah.

56:45 I don't know. I'm skeptical.

56:47 Yeah, I mean, I figure, I mean I'm a law abiding citizen maybe

56:53 and I so I'd kind of like I'm a bit naive to the fact of like,

56:56 well, I don't care who has my DNA then for that, but.

57:00 Yeah, but then like, what if your kid does something or like.

57:02 But then they shouldn't. Yeah, I know.

57:04 No, I know. I know.

57:05 It's it's not even that. I don't know.

57:07 I don't know. Yeah, I do.

57:09 I do get what you're saying because apparently there are

57:12 because of this case and this blowing this all open and it

57:15 becomes an ethical issue. I think there's certain, I think

57:17 it was ancestry.com is one of them that they, they don't the

57:23 like the FBI and that sort of stuff can't access their

57:25 database, but there are others that stop them from.

57:28 Creating these fake profiles then?

57:30 Or is it legally they're not allowed to?

57:32 I don't know that because there's been other cases that

57:34 have been, you know, solved by doing very similar things.

57:37 And I know there's particular people out there who are like,

57:39 literally, this is their job. They will research the genealogy

57:42 to find a criminal, so it's an interesting one.

57:47 Yeah, I don't. Maybe the laws haven't quite

57:49 matched up. We've caught up with them.

57:51 Yeah, with that yet? Yeah.

57:53 I think it's along the lines of, you know, like I find like the

57:55 IVF, it's another interesting thing of like, you know, the

57:57 ethics around IVF and where and those sort of things and embryos

58:00 and yeah, where they all go and that sort.

58:02 Of stuff, yeah, the laws, kind of.

58:03 The laws aren't behind, I mean, not as much.

58:05 This all happened in 2020, 2019-2020, so 2018020180.

58:11 That's right. He was arrested in 2018.

58:13 Yeah. So it's only sort of like six

58:15 years ish ago. So maybe their laws haven't

58:18 caught up yet. I actually don't.

58:19 Know, yeah. Interesting, but he was

58:22 sentenced to 11 but also the other.

58:24 The other side in terms of him being caught and ethics around

58:28 this as well. So they they basically pinned

58:30 him on this thing. They found the OK, this is the

58:32 guy they because they looked at a couple of different people who

58:35 obviously related. Yeah.

58:37 And what was like, no, this is our guy.

58:39 But to be able to prove that they then followed him around

58:42 and waited and waited and waited until he discarded something

58:45 that they could get DNA off. Yeah.

58:47 Took it out of the bin. Yeah.

58:48 Unbeknownst to him entirely. Yep.

58:50 Tested it. Bang.

58:51 That's our guy. And then went and arrested him.

58:55 So again, I mean, that's done. That's not unheard of, it all

58:58 for cops to do, but I still find that's another bit of a privacy

59:01 breach too. And I think.

59:03 All around, really, because you've discarded it, you've

59:05 discarded it, it's out in public, you've left it there

59:08 willingly. Yeah, I think that's how they

59:10 sort of get around it. But yeah, they got it, got his

59:12 DNA for tissue and it matched. So there were, there was some

59:15 DNA from one of the murder scenes and a couple of the rape

59:20 scenes I think that they still had access to.

59:22 Yeah. And they were able to link him

59:23 up. And that was one of the things

59:24 that really proved that the Visalia Ransacker, the Original

59:30 Night Stalker and the East Area Rapist were all the same person.

59:35 And I think that's where there was an author of a book,

59:37 Michelle McNamee, and she was the one that really like, I

59:41 think pinned like grouped all them together.

59:44 She was amazing. But, and I know if you knew much

59:46 about her, just trying to find the name of her book, it was

59:50 called No, that wasn't her book called Frozen Time.

59:52 It was someone else's. I can't remember the name of her

59:55 book, but her book was is amazing.

59:57 People have actually said who have read the whole thing and

59:59 I've read snippets of it, that it's terrifying to read.

1:00:02 That's how good of an author she was, right?

1:00:04 But she was very, she'd done so much research into this and had

1:00:08 and had like cracked open a fair bit of parts of this case to be

1:00:11 able to marry up that this was the same person doing these but

1:00:15 with different names. And she was such a huge part of

1:00:18 it. But she ended up, I believe,

1:00:20 talking of cancer not long before she finished her book.

1:00:23 And her beautiful husband stepped in and finished it for

1:00:25 her. So wow.

1:00:28 Yeah, I. Think she literally died like

1:00:31 two months before he was arrested.

1:00:33 Yes. Yeah.

1:00:34 She didn't quite get there. Yeah.

1:00:36 Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

1:00:38 But you have a read of that book, Michelle Mcnamash.

1:00:40 OK, I will. From all accounts of what I've

1:00:42 looked at, that book's really incredible if you're up for a

1:00:45 Horror Story really like. I don't know that I am stripping

1:00:48 you after all this. This is, you know, they

1:00:51 sometimes, as you were saying before, sometimes these cases

1:00:53 can shake you and this is definitely one of them.

1:00:55 I have a habit of going to bed at night listening to real the

1:00:58 same just calms me so but this one.

1:01:02 Do not listen to that recording of of his voice in the to that

1:01:07 victim right before bedtime. Do not.

1:01:10 You are not. Sleep do not no.

1:01:12 So in the end he was convicted of first degree.

1:01:16 Sorry. He was charged with first degree

1:01:18 murder, 13 counts, 13 counts of kidnapping, and he was actually

1:01:23 sentenced to 12 consecutive life sentences without the

1:01:27 possibility of parole, plus eight years.

1:01:29 Yeah. And the reason that it was only

1:01:31 12 was because that was the maximum allowed penalty in the

1:01:37 state of California at the time. So they.

1:01:39 Yeah. He ain't never getting out.

1:01:41 Yeah, he's never getting out. I mean, consecutive life

1:01:43 sentences. Yeah.

1:01:45 And without the possibility of parole plus eight years, there

1:01:47 was no way he was he was getting out.

1:01:50 So he'll be in bars for the rest of his life.

1:01:52 I mean, he's in his eighty or he'd be close to 80 now.

1:01:57 And, you know, let's hope he lives a long and healthy and

1:02:02 horrific life in prison. Let's hope so.

1:02:05 That's that's the only thing we can really hope for in this.

1:02:07 What a absolute piece of shit. Absolute piece of shit.

1:02:13 These poor victims look out, you know, when we decided to do this

1:02:18 true true crime podcast, Oh my God, true and true.

1:02:22 Why did we do that to ourselves? This true crime podcast?

1:02:25 I think one of the things that you and I both want to do is pay

1:02:28 respect to those victims. And one of the reasons that we

1:02:32 like to discuss these things is to keep victims at the forefront

1:02:36 of people's minds. And, you know, we never want to

1:02:38 lose sight of that. This, this piece of shit needs

1:02:46 to rot. And, you know, may his victims

1:02:51 rest peacefully. Let their voices speak loudly.

1:02:54 I mean, you know, we've got to celebrate those, the, the fact

1:02:57 that they're survivors out there.

1:02:59 There's also those that have not survived this.

1:03:02 Obviously there are they're murdered victims, but those that

1:03:05 have survived are incredibly strong.

1:03:08 The fact that two of them have paired together to get a story

1:03:11 across, you know, it's just awesome.

1:03:13 Love it go girls. I just that we women are strong

1:03:18 and they some an asshole and absolute monster like this will

1:03:23 not stop their voices. That's it.

1:03:25 Yeah. I think that's a good note to

1:03:28 end it on. Yeah.

1:03:29 We do have a bit of a request of everyone if we can.

1:03:32 Please, please, we would really love it if you could follow our

1:03:38 podcast in your podcasting app. So for Apple, it's on the Purple

1:03:42 podcasting app in Spotify where you can also watch us in video.

1:03:47 If you can follow our channel, that really, really helps us get

1:03:52 our name out there and, you know, helps us be a little bit

1:03:55 more visible to people who are searching for true crime

1:03:58 podcasts, as it were. Yeah.

1:04:00 And do you reckon we need to give ourselves a little bit of a

1:04:03 pat on the back I. Think so.

1:04:04 I think we're we're doing bloody well.

1:04:06 I mean, jeez, I mean, this is episode we're we're recording

1:04:09 episode 12, but we've released episode seven.

1:04:12 I think it was this week. Yeah, yeah.

1:04:14 So I mean, after seven episodes, we're doing well.

1:04:17 We're doing really well. We've had lots and lots of

1:04:20 people like come in and join us. We can see that so many people,

1:04:25 and there are people from all around the.

1:04:26 World who are tuning in nice of like the countries everyone's

1:04:29 from It's insane. Oh, welcome to everybody.

1:04:31 Yes. Welcome and please like, yeah,

1:04:35 please subscribe. It really, really, really does

1:04:37 help us. So having like having people

1:04:38 listen is fantastic. If you can subscribe, it's even

1:04:41 better. So thank you everybody for

1:04:43 listening. And next week we are bringing

1:04:46 you This is an Australian Story. It's the case of Melissa Kadik.

1:04:54 And this is an interesting one. It's a little bit open-ended.

1:04:58 And yeah, we'll see where that case takes us.

1:05:01 But thank you everybody for joining us on another episode of

1:05:05 Two Crime Besties. And we can't wait to bring you

1:05:08 another episode next week. Absolutely stay curious.

1:05:11 Crime besties. Bye.

1:05:31 OK. Oh God, are we ready to start?

1:05:34 No. God.

1:05:35 We're fine. That's fine.

1:05:36 You're you're gonna you'll, you'll be great.

1:05:39 No, you'll be great. You'll be.

1:05:40 You're always great. No, you are.

1:05:42 You are. Love you.